Windows Weekly 484: Microsoft for Life!

It's time for Windows weekly with

Paul Thurrott and Mary-Jo Foley.

Microsoft wants you for life,

and their ready to kill the next screen.

Paul is excited for the new Xbox and

Mary-Jo talks about Microsoft's

bad cloud day. Window's Weekly is next.

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This is Window's Weekly with Paul Thurrott

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September 21, 2016 Microsoft for life!

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It's time for Windows weekly with
Paul Thurrott and Mary-Jo Foley.

I'm Father Robert Ballecer in for
Leo Laporte

who is currently looking for the answers

to life, the universe and everything

acrossed the pond. Of course Paul Thurrott

is the guru behind Thurrott.com the

previewer of news, reviews and analyzes

for tech enthusiasts. Mary-Jo Foley the

mastermind behind ZDnet All About

Microsoft blog. Together their here to

bring a light to the deep cave of

Microsoft news, like a over charged light

bulb battery exploding in the darkness.

Paul, Mary-Jo so good to have ya.

(Mary-Jo laughs)

(Paul) It's like your introducing

Bond villains there.

(Mary-Jo) I know I was like Wow!

The masterminds.

(Paul) Master of Disaster Mary-Jo Foley.

(Father Ballecer) Do you have a cat?

and can you do this with your fingers?

- I think I need that on a business card.

If I still used business cards I would.

That is one of those strange things.

At these conventions that we go to
these shows

we all do the business card thing and

I've even got down the whole Asian thing

of handing like this and a bit of a bow.

But, um, those collect dust afterwards,

I almost never use them.

- No, No! I don't even have one.

- I was going to say I think I have some,

but I've never brought them anywhere.

-Wait!, You two go to shows, don't you?

It's kind of a thing, it's how you say
hello, right?

- uh

-Well now people just say, "where can

I find you?" and I just day "All About

Microsoft"

- Mary-Jo and I just bump our phones

together and say "Power twins activate."

(Mary-Jo laughs)

- No, I don't know every once in a while

someone will hand me a business cards

and I have a momentary bit of confusion,

like I don't have one of these things,

or I don't have it with me.

You know I feel, it's like a weird moment.

I feel like I need to give them something

in return, it's like someone comes over

with a gift and you don't have anything

to give them.

-Yeah, that's what it is. I know
I'm handing

out cards like they are candy, but it's

just because I want to give you something.

It's like thank you very much for
your time,

uh, here's something, and stop talking

to me now.

(laughing) yes, right!

(Paul) I've met the social obligation

(Father Ballencer) And if you actually
want to see

where this is gonna be put up you
can contact

ma at this other wise I'm just gonna
assume

that you just don't care (Mary-Jo) Yep
(laughter)

(Paul) I needed a resume for something,

you know, like a year ago or more, I. . .

Thurrott.com, what do you mean I...?

(laughing) I don't keep track of my

accomplishments, I'm not even sure what

I would do with that.

(Father Ballencer) Our Field producer,

Colene Goldstein, she's actually

really good LinkedIn. Before she
hands over

her card, she'll just say can I find
you on

LinkedIn and she's just building up
this huge

network of all these people that she's
connected

to and she says that's far more efficient

than trying to take a card and then
remember

where it came from and who they

represented six weeks ago.

Because remember a lot of the people that

you meet don't actually work for
that company

they work for a PR company that represents

the company that you are talking to.
(Paul) Right.

and you won't remember who that is unless

you actually write it on the back of
that card

and even then sometimes you don't remember

- I have to look at the lower third to
remember

Mary-jo's name. (laughing) you know I'm

really not good at that kind of thing.

(Mary-Jo) He's bad at this thing.

(Fa. Ballencer) I have to look down here

If I don't see that?

(Paul) Hi! I'm Fr. Rob, What does
that say?

(laughing) Sir Foley, no let's not
do that.

I'll right let's get away from social
convention

cuz we've got some pretty spectacular
windows news

who's got this first one, because
eventually

Microsoft has finally "oh! that's right
we're not

offering the free version anymore,
maybe we

should kill that nag screen"

Mary-Jo - Yeah I can start it off a bit.
Um,

Yesterday, the 20th, Microsoft put out a

KB article that said "Hey we're finally
going to

push through Windows update, an update

that takes away the Windows, get
Windows 10 app.

So if you remember July 29th was the
actual day

the offer to get a free Windows 10 ended.

And at that time they said it might
take us

a little while to faze this out
because we've

so thoroughly inundated everyone
with this app

and the promotion. So actually the real

day when this ended at least when
the app ended

was yesterday. And it's starting to roll

through the Windows update. It replaces

the get Windows 10 app and it goes away.

But the weird complication
not complication

but the weird kind of coincidence is

you can actually still get Windows 10
as free upgrade

You just have to use your existing
Windows 7

or 8.1 product key and you can still
unlock the free

upgrade, which is something Microsoft
is not

actively advertising, but Paul has been
verifying it daily.

(Paul) well weekly

(Mary-Jo) I've been asking him
is it still up

(Fa. Bellencer) Cuz, I was told
that if you do

the get Windows 10 thing and then
you roll it

back you're always set you can always
re-download it

(Paul) Oh! yeah, yeah this is for
new installs.

In other words you have never
done this before

you have a key you can do a clean
Windows 10

right now and it would still work.

(Fa. Bellencer) Wait! What? That's not how

it's suppose to work.

(Mary-jo) Yep
(Paul) I know, and by the way

one day it won't, I mean maybe
this weekend

or the weekend after that, someday,
I'm gonna

wake up, I'm gonna test it and
it's not gonna work

you know it's just.. It's going to
happen eventually.

But, um, I wrote an article about this

not working probably a month ago
in anticipation

of it not working and it's just
kept working

the things been sitting here at
my desktop since

August. (Fa Ballencer) So you just try and

do an update everyday just to make
sure it still goes?

(Paul) not everyday and least once a week.

- Now does this

(Mary-Jo) Yesterday, I said to him can you

still do it? And he's like, Yep you can!

-So does this now increase the
value of the

Windows 10 upgrade, because now
you can't get

it except maybe if you know this
super secret,

now do people actually want it?

(Paul) I.. No.. I suppose..
I think the issue

is.. Well if you wanted to save some money

I suppose you could go buy Windows 8.1

product key and you know, well you

wouldn't actually buy Windows 8.1

I should say, it's possibly you can
buy a copy of it

somewhere cheaper because nobody wants it

anymore and than you could upgrade
now for less money

than buying Windows 10. Or maybe you just

had keys for some reason, maybe a
company that has

keys allotted or you bought the
package version

at some point, maybe you bought
the Windows 7

family pack back in the day and you
only used

two of the three keys and you've got
an extra

one sitting around for what ever reason.

If you have a key it will work. If you

got them from TechNet that will work.

um, and someday it won't. So, we'll see.

-Microsoft won't say when they think

it will no longer work in fact they aren't

really publicly saying that it still works

if you ask them, they just don't answer

when you ask about this.

And I assume it's the same thing
that they said

about the get Window 10 app

that it might take some time for them

to shut it off. But the other
theory is they

are just leaving it open for those laggers

who didn't get around to updating by
July 29th

and they can say to them "You know what,
psst

by the way."

- It doesn't hurt anybody, I think
that's the

point that if they are people out there
in the world

with Windows 7 install that they've
never done

Microsoft would much rather see them be on

Windows 10, if they're going to do a
new Windows

install. Why wouldn't they want that.

- I can also see this heading off a lot of

complaints from people who said "oh man

I tried to upgrade and I totally forgot
and I

did it in August and it didn't
work anymore"

No that's not actually a valid excuse.

You know September 21st, October 21st,

It's starting to get to the point where

you can't pretend you've been

procrastinating and than just forgot
I mean,

You know at some point it's just. . .

Their just leaving it open, its fine.

I have no problem with this.

- This is actually a huge opportunity
for us

because I know Alex has been trying to

update the Tri caster to Windows 10

(Paul) Actually Padre, Let me correct you

you shouldn't run Windows update on the

Tri caster, New Tech doesn't say
you should

So I really hope that nothing. . .

Oh Crap! (Laughing)

- This is what happens, You get a
nag screen

in the middle of Windows weekly

that's oddly blocking me out entirely,

that's different (Mary-Jo) It is

You know we're going to have to live
with this

for the next 20 -30 minutes because

unfortunately, click the initiated
and it'll

take that much time to install and

uninstall it. (Mary-Jo) They'll see
us though

we're off to the sides. Not when you zoom

on us, but the big picture you can see us.

(Paul) How do I know that this
graphic hasn't

been used more gleefully on
Macbreak weekly

and whatever morning show I'm sure you do?

(Fa Ballencer) Uh, this weeks it's Google,

I think this is actually the
new title card

for Floss Weekly. Um Floss Weekly will

never reserve your copy.

Do either of you still have Windows 7,
8 & 10

Machines in your environment?

(Mary-Jo) Yes, I have 7,

(Fa Ballencer) So no 10 at all?

(Mary-Jo) Yeah I have 10 and 7, but no 8

(Fa Ballencer) Really? I have 7, 8.1
and 10

(Mary-Jo) You have all of them.

(Fa Ballencer) Well because I mean 10

does still kill some of my USB devices

so my production machines have to stay 8

and I have one laptop and that just works

better at 7.

(Mary-Jo) I just have the desktop I still

use because it's just an older machine,

the Dell that I've had for awhile
I just left

it on 7, cuz I'm like Eh, when I need to

replace the machine Ill just get

Windows 10 machine.

(Paul) But what about all those
gotta have it

apps you can't run?

-Um?!

(Fa Ballencer) Now a quick question,

this really did hurt Microsoft's
reputation,

right? I mean Yes, That number of how

many deployments they have of Windows 10

is forever going to be asterisk.

People said "Well how many of those were

accidental upgrades or how many of those

were installs and then rollbacks almost

immediately. This. . Will people
forget this

or will Windows 10 upgrade nag screen

be the butt of jokes for the next two

decades. (Paul) Honestly I think they've

irreparably harmed their reputation with

this and not just Microsoft generally but

the reputation of Windows as well.

The forced upgrade thing was a
huge mistake

on their part and a very risky gamble and

the recent people aren't going to forget

it is because they came out and said we're

going to hit a billion within two to three

years and then right before Windows the

windows ten free upgrade ended they said

you know what we're not going to make that

goal and so even though they did that they

were unable to you know meet
this reasonable

goal, I thought, of reaching a billion

users in that timeframe.

- You know Mary Jo there's two ways to

look at this. There's one way and
this would,

I think this is where Paul lines up, there

was an executive or some marketing person

who said you know what we want to hit a

billion because it sounds like a
great number.

So let's just force this on people. The

other way to think of this is that some

engineers said you know what people

will like ten if they just try it if
we just

get it on the machine they will understand

what all the hoopla is about.

Which of those do you fall with?

- So I also, like Paul, think this was a

big mistake and the part that really

kind of riled me the most was when

Microsoft was taking the tack of saying

it's for users own good that were doing

this and you know I was like wait this is

so paternalistic How can you say what's

for my good or my mother's good who

accidently got Windows ten and
like flipped

out when she got it you know I just think

that argument didn't work. I'm happy. They

made a free upgrade available very easily

to people but I don't think they should

have rammed it down people's throat.

But it's also, I don’t know
if it qualifies

as ironic but, You know one of the kind of

contracts you enter into with Microsoft

when you do install or get Windows 10 is

you're accepting a constant stream of

upgrades and you really can't do anything

as an individual to befriend that from

happening. Least not elegantly or easily

and your introduction to this new world is

Microsoft seamlessly and inelegantly

jamming Windows 10 down your throat

you know it's it's kind of a nasty preview

of what the future holds for you when you

do this and it's just the wrong first step

you know to resent, it was a
terrible mistake

- Yeah and then the, you hiding of the way

that you would actually accept the upgrade

where people were closing the window.

That was really bad. That made like a bad

situation worse. So yeah not a good look.

- In writing about this topic today

I decided not to go back and hit on every

single little milestone in this because

frankly it's kind of depressing.

You know, when you go back to look at the

sheer amount of stuff that both of us I'm

sure have written about this get
Windows 10

thing since last year and the various ways

they changed it silently some Windows

Update, or group of Windows Updates would

go out, some of them would prevent the

blockers from, you know or the un-blockers

I guess from you know working.

some of them would change the way the

dialog looked or worked. You know in the

past when you close the window, it would

just go away but at one point when you

close the window you silently
have accepted

the upgrade and that's purposefully evil.

It's terrible.

-For me I think that hurt more
than anything

else because I understand wanting to

force out the update. Especially since

they believe it's going to be much more

secure, it's going to be much more feature

rich. But the fact that they kept playing

cat and mouse with people who just didn't

want to be nagged anymore. That's the

reputation strike it's like ok
if I went to

the trouble of removing that nag screen

then obviously I'm a savvy user if I can

do that. So the fact that you're trying to

work around what I did. Now I feel as if

we're playing Microsoft nanny state.

-Right -Yeah, yeah

A lot of times you know they keep saying

you know what, we're letting people get

around it, if they go in and edit the

registry settings. I'm like, wait a second

hold on, that's not something most people

should do. In fact, probably very few

should do it. And so when that was

like “Hey were give you an alternative

to get out of it. I was like uh, that's

not a good option.

-That's not an alternative.

–No

- I mean the funny thing they get looking

back over a year of articles
for this topic.

What I reminded myself of was in late June

one month before the free offer ended.

They finally added something to that

box that said I don't want this please

stop asking me. It took them eleven of

the twelve months to get to that point.

That's how it should have been on day one.

You know it's just uh, you just can't

recover from this. We don't know, we may

never know the psychological impact that

had on what may or may not have been

very good to Microsoft customers that day,

who upon looking for a new computer at

some time in the future may decide they

need, they are going to get a pro book

instead or a mac book or well probably not

a Linux computer that's crazy.
But you know

what I'm saying. That they're
going to look

at an iPad even or something, whatever.

And just make that decision because they

don't want to be harassed which is a

completely reasonable request. You know.

-Let's close the book on this bad chapter.

–Yeah, yeah I think so.

It's not a mulligan but it's since you say

OK you know what, you kind of hit some

of the numbers you wanted not the big one

but now actually show us that our faith in

you is not misplaced. But to be fair, we

could look at other companies in the

industry, like Google that are doing the

same sort of strong arm tactics.

Google right now is making a big push for

HTTPS, they want everything to be encypted

end to end on the internet, that's a good

goal, but some people feel that their

approach is heavy handed. Now, the new

updates to Chrome are going
to automatically

mark any site that doesn't have
HTTPS built

into it as insecure so that little icon is

going to pop up, warning people that maybe

they shouldn't visit the site.
People think

that's heavy handed, but those looking at

it say, "well this is ultimately going to

lead to a better internet." you could make

the same call here. You could say "Look,

this was heavy handed, this was

Microsoft being the worst of the nannies,

but a more secure OS ultimately is a

better experience."

-All of the goals that Microsoft had for

this were valid right. Even the
self-serving

ones you know, the notion that we would

all be better off if more of us run the

very latest version of the O. S. and were

always updated to be on that version would

make us all more secure because it's less

work for Microsoft to do to fix
the problems

you know, are going to occur down the road

Everyone benefits from that there's no. .

you can't really dispute it. But the

problem is when they say oh good, everyone

agrees? Good! Now you're all getting the

new upgrade is like whoa whoa hold on a

second, you know, you mention for example

that you have U.S.B. devices that don't

work on Windows 10. I'm sure anyone.

listening to this has some examples of

some things whatever might be, uh…

that don't work you know or some reason

whatever it may be that they couldn't

upgrade. I mean you can't. . . I don't

believe you can I mean they
tried you can't

really just jam this kind of thing down

people's throats.

-And for our few fruit flans in
the chat room

right now. Why is it that Microsoft trying

to force Windows 10 on people was a

boondoggle. Whereas another company's

decision to remove a standard
port was brave?

(Mary-Jo laughs) Courage

(Paul) Good marketing.

(Fa. Ballencer) Maybe this was just

Microsoft’s courage, and we’re all just

misunderstanding it.

-Uhm –Ok (Laughter) -Well OK

(Paul) It was courageous of them
to attempt.

(Fa. Ballencer) It was, it was. Although

I will say something I really don't like

is the fact that they've disabled
something

from 8 because if you do Windows stacked

side by side it's pretty seamless but if

you do one on top of the other there's

always a hard break as you move between

screens. In 8 you used to be able to

disable that sticky window, you just move

right through it. You can do the same

registry edit in 10 but it doesn't fix it.

That never goes away and that's why I

don't understand that, Go figure.
All right.

When we come back. We need to talk about

something a bit more cheery because we've

we've been hammering on Microsoft
so rather

than talking about a forced
Windows 10 update

I think maybe we should talk about some

Layoffs -Yeah. (laughter)
-Oh boy!

–Yay let’s get pumped. But first let's go

ahead and take a moment to thank the first

sponsor of this episode of Windows weekly.

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OK this is one of these stories that it

almost feels as if a
continuation of stories

that we've already covered but who

wants to talk about the bad news for

pink slips over at Microsoft.

(Mary-Jo) Oh wait, can we talk about the
Skype thing first.

(Fa Bellencer) OK sure. OK You know

what that's hold off on the super awesome

(Mary-Jo) I mean it's related but we can

we could kind of mix it up a little.

-The people getting pink slips got
them over Skype. (laughter)

(Mary-Jo) That would have been interesting

(Paul) Which explains why some of them

have been home. Some of them got it
seventeen times. (laughing)

(Mary-Jo) Burn, burn
(Fa Bellencer) ok Skype, let’s do Skype.

-Ok so this um, Paul should the S.M.S.
relate because you, I think you've

actually looked at it, right?

-No, well not exactly, so, Err,
how do I explain this,

but earlier this year Microsoft announced
a feature that was going to come

in the Windows 10 anniversary
update called messaging everywhere

and the idea is that you have a Windows
Phone or an Android phone

and you can use your computer to send
text messages and receive text messages

right like you can do in a Mac if you
have an iPhone as well.

And everyone was really excited about it,
some insiders started testing it

and then very late in the game they said
you know what.

Actually we're not going to put
this in Windows ten.

This makes more sense for Skype
we'll put it in the Skype preview app

but sometime later in the year they
yanked it out of Windows 10

some people were disappointed you
know because they were using it

but you know I think we can agree that
a messaging feature makes more sense for

Microsoft's messaging solution than it
does for Windows specifically so

it's going to be part of Skype. So
in the most recent Windows insider build

which was released last week I think
Microsoft's added this feature in for

the first time and now they're calling it
S.M.S. relay actually been calling

about for some time but it's a slightly
more technical and less interesting name

and the functionality is supposed to work
the same way in this initial version

however you need to have the latest fast
ring version of Windows 10 from

windows insiders. I think 14 9 23 or
something like that. And you also need

to have that same build on Windows 10
mobile it only works on those two systems

so I have both of these things
but I couldn't get it.

I'm not seeing it on my phone
I don't know why.

but the idea again is that you can from
the Skype preview app on Windows 10

for P.C.'s send and receive text messages
and so if your phone is over the corner

charging somebody sends you a text message
you get a notification on your P.C.

click on it you can reply to it right
there. It sends out over your phone

as you would expect so it's coming.
And it will come as part of Skype, right?

so we won't have to wait for the next
major version of Windows 10 to get it.

Which by the way is another one of
the advantages of putting it on Skype.

-You know what's weird though I think I
messaged you about this that I have an

Android phone. I have a Windows 10 P.C.
and I am seeing my text messages

from my phone show up on my Windows 10
P.C. and I'm not on

the insider program right!
–Which is really interesting.

-Yeah, So I think it's because of Cortana
though because I have Cortana on both

and I believe that also gives you some of
that functionality but that then

I'm like OK So is this in the future
going to be taken out of Cortana?

-Yes so, right. Actually it's kind of
confusing because this is hum,

I wrote a book about Windows 10 that I'm
still updating for the anniversary update

and one of the things I put off literally
to the very end that I will wrote right

in the last of all the new content is
phone integration because it's actually a

little convoluted there are three ways
right now that you can get information

back and forth from your phone through
Windows 10 as I understand it. One is this

new S.M.S. relay feature in the Skype
preview. One is the thing you're seeing

which is the Cortana integration but
there's also like a Windows phone

integration I will get Windows Phone
notifications in Action Center on

Windows 10that are notifications that
came from Windows 10 in the phone and so

they could be about anything it will be
like Facebook updates.

You know different things from different
apps on the phone and those things will

actually surface in Windows 10 of my P.C.
as well. So I'm still trying to kind of..

where and how all these things happen
and why you know it's interesting I have

three different phones, so I have and
Android phone like you do and I have the

Windows Phone and also an iPhone
So the iPhone doesn't really do anything

but the expectation is that you'll have a
pretty decent level of functionality

through Android if you have Windows 10
and then obviously if you have

Windows 10 mobile you would have
the best experience

because those two things would
be tightly integrated.

-You know that's something in a
feature I actually would really like

something in Windows that shows me how
the various services integrate because

it's always an crapshoot for me about what
notifications I get on what devices like

you I've got I.O.'s devices I've got
Windows devices I've got Android I think

Windows Mobile and it always, I’m never
really sure what is syncing and what's not

-It's like a roulette wheel and I just was
speaking Skype specifically, this morning

I was chatting with Brad on Skype & we're
you know we're texting back and forth

he writes, I write you know five minutes
goes by, 15 minutes and all of a sudden

one of my three phones in this case it
was my iPhone the screen lights up and

I look over and it's a Skype notification
of something. Brad had written me on Skype

about two minutes earlier. And so for
some reason that one version of the app

on that one phone lit up. It was like all
my devices or weight are in the back and

one of those are like I got it. I got it,

and it just kind of like I'm having an
active conversation in Skype on Windows.

You know why? Why would these other
things? You know how it is, if I go to my

Android phone and I turn them on right
now and I go into Skype. You know thus

waking it up which is a mistake. It's like
Jason from Friday the 13th or something

but if I do wake it up briefly it will
flash those one two three conversations

that are marked unread the conversations
I had earlier with Brad actually this one

from Twit and the conversations I had
with Mary Jo according to this version of

the app these conversations are unread.

-I know, that happens to me too. Yet when
I when I've had my Windows 10

laptop off for a while I turn on you know
they all the messages filtered through

but then some show up as unread
and some show up as read.

-Yep.

-So I'm not sure what makes
both of those things happen.

-Yeah I ended up going into Windows 10
notification I just turning off everything

because I was so tired of
receiving the same notifications 15 times

-Yep

-Actually there's something else that I
do love the syncing across accounts

that actually does work nicely except
for the fact that at home. I've got this

monster set up with two 4K. monitors
and a bunch of little monitors around the

periphery and it tries to import those
preferences into my laptop and it doesn't

matter how many times I tell it not to do
that it. There's always an update in the,

the switch gets turned back on & suddenly
all the text on my laptop is tiny.

Because it's adjusting with what it thinks
I want to the desktop, which that's again

I want some sort of central control panel
that shows all my devices and which

settings are moving between which devices.
It sounds like that's an absolute

necessity now with all the different
devices that we use. And with all the

syncing that Microsoft trying to build
into the products. That's a necessity.

-Yeah you know obviously Microsoft doesn't
have a big presence slash

any presence in Mobile and so one of the
concerns that they have that maybe Apple

doesn't have and Google only has to a
lesser extent say with IOS Devices is the

cross-platform stuff you know Bart W on
Twitter's ask Mary-Jo and I if S.M.S.

relay is coming to the Skype apps on IOS
and Android as

well and it's a reasonable expectation
that it would but

you know of course on Android you have
a Microsoft has a

much easier way of getting into the
system and making

this more seamless whereas in IOS,
if you think about how

Cortana works you kind of have to go
in and run the app

for some things to happen. You know it's
never going to be as. .

even though it can you know, it can sort
of run in the background a little bit

you can never be sure that it will always
be there. This is more easily done on

Android and Windows Phone So if you…
Mary-Jo do you know off the top you head

has Microsoft ever spoke to S.M.S relay
on IOS Android?

-I don't remember them saying that.

–It seems like it would have to the right?

(Mary-Jo) I know it does seemed like it

would have to

-What would be the point of S.M.S relay

to Windows 10 mobile?

-Right.

- Mary Jo I've got an enterprise question

for you. Do we know how many versions of

messaging Windows has.. uh Microsoft has

because you've got Skype. You've got

Skype for business. You've got Skype for

broadcast and then you've got the link

stuff which was actually supposed to take

over for the Skype stuff but then that

seems to be flipped. Now that we've got
the Dela

do you see what's in the strategy going

forward or we just keep getting fractured

off into different types of Skype
and do they still have

that artificial delineation
between consumer and enterprise?

-They do. They still have the delineation

there is still Skype consumer and Skype

for business are not the same product

even though they're both called Skype and
you're right. Link is still kind of

hanging around for some on promise the

stuff but ultimately Link, the Link name

will totally go away and link will be

completely superseded by Skype for
business that will happen.

-Because that was going the other way. I
mean Skype was going to go to go away and

they were going to keep Link and so now
they've reversed on that.

- Yes So I think they're being pretty

consistent on length being supplanted by
Skype for business.

-OK.

-I think next week which is Microsoft

ignite we might hear some new things

about Skype for business and kind of

where that's going because every time we

ask Microsoft about Skype they'll answer

Skype consumer questions but they won't

talk at all about Skype for business. And

I think next week's show because it's a

very I T pro focus show we probably will

hear some new things about Skype for

business and hopefully about how it's

going to be syncing soon with OneDrive

and OneDrive for business. That's

something people are really waiting

anxiously for and last we heard that was

going to happen in the final calendar

quarter of this year. So we're almost in
the final calendar quarter.

Seems like we should get some new
News on that next week.

- Wait Skype for business will sync with
OneDrive?

-With OneDrive for business, yes!

-How does that.. Wait what is it syncing?

- They’ll be integration. Sorry. Am I
saying OneDrive business or

am I thinking Share Point.
I’m thinking about Share Point.

-OK, OK that makes sense

-Sorry I'm thinking about Share Point

when I'm saying OneDrive for business but

um, it may, Microsoft talked about Share
Point and OneDrive business being able to

actually have better sync across those

two products and they said that was going

to counter Q four and I think that's what

we might hear about next week. But yeah

you know every time we ask about Skype.

You know we've heard recently that Skype

is moving to this new kind of universal

next generation client and when I asked

Microsoft you know does that also mean

Skype for businesses is going to be on

that same universal client.

They said we're not really talking
about Skype for Business.

-You're like whoa.

-Don't get ahead of yourself here.

- And don't forget the upcoming Skype for

Web R.T.C. because I mean that's also

another universal client and universal,
universal.

-But we should talk about this thing that

surfaced this week called Skype for life.
Speaking of .

-Oh good I was just hoping we would have
another Skype.

- Speaking of Jason from Friday the 13th.
(laughing)

-OK what is Skype For Life?

-OK So ARS Technica Dr Pizza over there

got a tip from one of his sources or

maybe multiple sources that Microsoft was

working on a product called Skype For
Life and he and a lot of us have first

kind of thought maybe this was a name for

the universal Skype client that would

work across all different platforms that

would be kind of like what Microsoft has

described as the universal Windows

platform equivalent but for the other

platforms like IOS and Android. But then

Paul dug around a little and thought it

through and he says no but that is not
what that it is.

-No! No I mean I talked

to Peter about it., Skype, Ironically.

And I don't doubt that he was told this

and I don't doubt that the person who

told him saw this and thought that they

understood what they were seeing but you

know I talked to the Skype guys back in

June or July about the strategy Mary Jo

just discussed where they're moving to a

new generation clients they have updated

their back end infrastructure they

temporarily have to maintain the old

P.D.P. infrastructure for certain

applications or services but that's going

to be going away. The combination of

these two back end services explains the

Skype reliability issues that we've all

seen over the past you know several

months I was told. And I thought you

know, Skype For Life and making yet again

new, some new client that would somehow

run across all those platforms didn't

make any sense to me and if you look at

that next to their previously stated

strategy it's clear to me that Skype For

Life is just a marketing term and what

they're describing internally I think is

the culmination of that previous existing

strategy that the new infrastructures

switched over to their new clients are

all available. They all interact and all

have the new features and it's not that

it's one client's I mean obviously

Windows will have P.W.P. clients, IOS and

Android will have native apps there,

Linux will have what they have and there

will be the web version as well. And

these things will have some baseline of

functionality that works across all of

them on this new infrastructure that's
the point of it.

-You know what I'm going to still be a

doubter here. OK I don't think, I think

the more I think about this the more I

think you're right that it isn't a new

totally new Skype client. I think that

would just be crazy and kind of going

back to what they just got away from but

I think Skype For Life is something else

and the reason I'm thinking that it's a

marketing slogan but, maybe it's

something like you know they call Skype

translator a feature of Skype like that.

That's how they brand that and Skype for

teams which is what they're going to be

doing to compete with Slack. I also think

they'll call that a feature of Skype. I

don't think they'll call of a new version

of Skype. So I'm thinking Skype For Life

might be something like using Skype to

improve your life in some way. So maybe

it's like I don't know I'm just I'm

totally reaching here but Skype like

maybe Skype and the Microsoft Health

platforms somehow connected or you know

Skype being used for some specific thing

that's more about health and welfare and

maybe a very specific almost like a

vertical I'm just guessing here again but

I think it's something else.

-I mean that seems very far reaching. It

might be simpler that you know it's funny

we were just kind of joking around and

slash complaining about how you know

Skype will ring on various devices and

whatever because we have various devices

because we're nerds and so Skype For Life

could be as simple as what I think of a

Skype everywhere this this feature you

know that a normal person with a computer

and a phone or a tablet and a phone would

want to get messages everywhere and

that's the For Life. In other words.

Whatever your life is whatever your

habits are whatever devices you choose to
use Skype will be there. You know.

-That could be

-I just you know regardless of what it is

I mean I think it's mostly a marketing

term. Right. Not so much a product. And

it's almost just a way to describe
functionality to normal people.

-I'd be down with the marketing term. I
spoke with a rep a Microsoft rep over at

IFA in Berlin last month and or no this

month and of course didn't want to talk

about it but what he was describing was

that this is Skype UC this is the unified

communication promised the idea of we

don't want Skype to be an app. It

shouldn't be something you start up it

should be something that is just

everywhere. They're using Microsoft

products. You should be able to say

Cortana call Paul Thurrott and it will

automatically kick out Skype and it

doesn't even call a Skype it just

connects. Hum, and I can see that I mean

that UC promises has been something

that's been around for ten years maybe

this is Microsoft finally saying let's do.

- Or saying we finally have enough pieces

in place for it makes sense right. I mean

even the things like integrating Skype

into Outlook.com and OneDrive.com on the

web or the Outlook 2016 Mail clients in

office 2016 which you know depending on

your view of things you might find

incredibly useful or incredibly annoying

because it certainly on the web, they

don't do a good job with that but

I think that these things are all part of

… how do you describe a bunch of little

things? It's a.. what's the theme? You

know universal communications is how we

would say it in the enterprise and maybe

Skype For Life is how they want to say it
to people.

-You know what Padre just gave me a crazy
idea another crazy idea.

-Oh good

-What if Skype For Life is a bot?

-Oh

-Now they’re intergrading more bots into

Skype right and there's been all this

talk about a concierge bot that Bing was

working on for a while to be kind of like

your personal assistant for a life. You

know somebody who you could say hey what

movies are playing can you get me some

tickets. Maybe this is Skype For Life?

-But then Skype for life would have to
fight Cortana to the death.

-I know. Yeah. BOTS and Cortana they...

I think they're siblings I think they're
friends but yeah

-Their twins, Skype For Life is the twin

they kept in the closet until he was a

teenager so he’s a little stunted.

We've actually got people in the chat

room, we've got ‘hey it's Todd’ who

suggested that Skype For Life is actually

the name of a new form of judicial

punishment and then you see the really

really bad, you only get to use Skype
(Laughing)

-It sounds like a big punishment.

-And a guy could be like oh I’ve been
Skyped.

-Should it just be Skype 10? I mean,

cause that was the whole idea of Windows
10. It is the last Windows you will ever

own is this Skype 10 is it like look it
will always be this way.

-And what you're supposed to do

everything to ensure it. That’s windows.
God bless

-The ultimate Skype.

-Honestly Windows 10 is a terrible name

right. That should have just been Windows

I don't think we need to go 10 I think if

anything we should be stripping the

numbers off of the products that still
have numbers.

-Maybe they really want it to be
Windows X.

-Apple's doing that right? Apple's
changing back

-They've kind of moved to the right

because they still have version numbers

obviously you have to have the stuff

behind the scenes but you know they talk

about the new version MacOS as Sierra.

You know and they've been doing that for

years. I guess but they really they

emphasize that you know it's a friendly

name and I think that's a nicer approach

than some godly book like H.P. product

names or version or just not version

numbers because numbers or even using the

version number the name is just it's just

it's I think that's just old fashioned

-Yeah

-Yeah it's kind of I mean because you
have to…

-I know especially if its the last right

last version of something, supposedly

-It should have just been Windows
ultimate,

Oh wait, we've already used
that. Never mind!

-Calling something the last version of

this product is like the worst way to

market something ever invented. You know

this is the last version we're ever going

to make a Windows. Oh know we’re gonna

keep updating it, but this is the last
one.

–There’ll be some serious updates to it
but no, this is it.

-So it really is just not smart mart.
(Sigh) I'm going to be…

I'm going to change my name to Padre 10.
I will be the last Padre, you’ll ever know

-Actually if you can change it to 10.01.

-There'll be updates to Padre, but this
is really the final version.

(Paul) There will always be that
little hidden miss.

(Mary-Jo) Padre Hena-versary.

-Don't we… the Padre anniversary edition.

It's ten pounds lighter but has all the
features. (laughing)

All right, we're going to bog down a bit

too much and it is a fun story, but there

is one more story that has so much fun it

has to be dispelled. Paul. There were

people screaming all over the Internet

that Microsoft is being the big bad by

trying to lock Linux out of new P.C.'s Is
this true?

–No! And that's all we need to say about

that. If I could somehow make a career

out of just debunking stupidity. Right. I
mean I just… you get into these

conversations of people on Twitter who

see these stories and they.. I think it's

the way conspiracy theories work right.

It's.. it hits on your internal beliefs

and so you instantly throw common sense

to the wind and say oh course their doing

this. Microsoft is evil. It's like guys

it's not 1998 anymore it could be maybe

upgrade the way we think about Microsoft

and their relationship with Linux in

particular. The topic and if you don't

know what it is I guess we should

probably step back a second and say that

somebody had discovered that a Lenovo

P.C. bought from the Microsoft store so

it's a signature P.C. and thus is running

something called Windows 10 signature

edition which doesn't exist. Somehow has

the magic capability of preventing Linux

from ever being installed in that

computer. That's not a capability of an

operating system that’s something that

would have to be built into the firmware

I guess of the computer I mean I

obviously there's always going to be some

way to brute stall anything on there but

you know, read it happens. There’s one of

the guys from ZD Net wrote a very calm

and collected article but anyway I

appreciated that. But here's the thing,

signature P.C. is as I describe it.

I think the smallest province of the

windows empire that exists in Microsoft.

They have no power at all the very notion

that they could require a P.C. maker to

do anything is ludicrous. Let alone the

world's number one P.C. maker. Microsoft

is not the business of blocking Linux.

They never really were. But it's one of

those things like a lot of people kind of

like want to believe is the case. Some

guy supposedly from Lenovo got into a

support forum somewhere and said Yeah.

This might this is part of our agreement

with Microsoft. That's not true. By the

way because Lenovo came out with a

statement and said no that's not what's

happening. It's one of those things like

you don't actually have to know the

answer to know the answer. It's a little

bit like the Skype For Life thing like if

you think it through. It's like this is

not what's happening and so I ... I'm not

the one that got the statement so I think

it's Tech Republic. They've got the

statement but I did a write up about it
and uh debating it…

-This is just secure boot on the UEFI
right?. I mean that's all it is.

-It's not exactly but it's that exact

kind of topic yes but Lenovo has a one

of, it's probably just one Lenovo

computer actually but there is a Lenovo

computer that has a very strange raid

S.S.D. configuration and as people are

discovering if they try to clean install

Windows 10 on that computer it won't work

either. It's. It's a very unique

configuration. It's not part of a secret

cabal with Microsoft to screw Linux users

out of their new computer but you know I

think I said this to Mary Jo privately or

maybe Brad we were I was chatting with

somebody earlier today and so consider

the market out there for people who are

going to buy a Windows based computer and

install Linux on it right and there is

some number it's a small number but the

some group of people do that. And now

let's consider the subset of those people

who are going to drive to a Microsoft

store pick it lovingly pick out their…

you know favorite signature P.C.

configuration from the store, buy it from

Microsoft. You know their favorite

company. And then put Linux on it. I mean

like I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm

not saying it's not going to happen but

c'mon. I mean and this is Microsoft's.

Path to world domination we're going to

do it through the signature pieces that

nobody even knows exists at the stores

and you can't even find there where you

live. It's just the whole thing is loaded

it's just typical. Watching this cascade

across the Internet today. It's just as

depressing. That's just so typical. You

know it destroys your faith in humanity

or reconfirms my belief that we're all
idiots. I mean it's just it's sad.

-And he thought Lenovo did show. I mean I

can't remember what they call it it's

like software services but then on boot

up you actually get the option of what

packages you want to install. So you
could make it a signature…

-You mean..?

-All the crapware.

-That’s interesting. So Lenovo not the

only P.C. makers starting to do that kind

of a thing and I really like this

approach it's because it's something P.C.

makers are not familiar with called
customer centricity.

You know H.P.’s newer machines will do

the same thing and in the past you get a

bunch of utilities and things running in

the tray and whatever was. Now you have

to seek out those applications and at the

time that you run it. It says hey we have

this tray thing we can put it and you

want to use it and if you say no that's

in the end of it you know and that's the

way things should be you know don't you
think. Yeah so.

-Well it sure beats me having to spend the

first thirty minutes of my new P.C.’s life

uninstalling everything that came
pre-installed.

-Yes right. Actually we will never be

deemed intelligent beings by future

civilizations because of things like this.

It's like when you buy an electronic

device and spend the first thirty minutes

updating the software or when you buy a

smartphone and you install apps and you

spend the next seven days removing or

changing notifications or like what you

just said you buy a new P.C. and the

first thing you do is take things away

from it. It's like this is so counter

intuitive and counterproductive and

yet we just sort of sort of accept that

this is the way it is you know.

-That's what makes me so sad that

signature seems to be kind of not an

emphasis anymore because I

remember when I got my Acer S7 it

came to me as a signature device and I

didn't even know it was going to and it

was such a different experience.

-Oh yes by the way. So let's see four

years ago this month. Microsoft opened

their store in Boston and I bought the

very first computer that was sold at that

store which is a fifteen inch
Samsung Ultra Book.

It was one of the last Windows 7 computers

they sold right because Windows 8
came out.

Thirty or forty five days later
and to this day

when I restore that thing and it goes back

to that clean Windows 7 signature edition

thing with beautiful wallpaper and you

know no crap anywhere it's still like this

calming almost transcendental moment like

you open the thing up And you’re like nice!

You know and that's not the reaction

typically happen with P.C. right?
It's too bad

-I mean seriously there is something about

having to do a hard restore where you to

go back to the factory disks and you know

yeah when any time you do that there's

going to be hours and hours if not days of

updates it's going to have to go through

round and round and round but that's not

the infuriating part for me because that I

can just leave off in the corner.

The infuriating part is I know I'm already

going to have an anti-virus it's going to

take five restarts to fully get rid of

because it just sticks in there and you

have to do a little bit of registry
editing

to get rid of the stuff that doesn't
uninstall at all.

-I know we've talked about this on the pod

cast whatever. You know some months ago

but as part of the Windows 10 anniversary

update there's a new tool
it's not actually

included in the O. S. but it's linked to

from the O. S. And so I think people are

probably familiar with the reset your P.C.

functionality of that they viewed
in Windows 8

also available in Windows 10. Thing is if

you use that on a P.C. that came from a

P.C. maker which is you know most P.C.'s.

The P.C. maker can edit that image that's

installed so the crap all comes back right

when you reset the P.C. you get the crap.

But there's a separate tool called refresh

Windows it's linked to from the same place

in the settings up in Windows 10 with the

anniversary update. You download the tool

it downloads Windows 10
it's a clean version

of Windows 10 and then you can install

that and then so instead of getting the

crapware laden version you might get from

say whatever peace maker Dell, HP, Lenovo

whatever you get Microsoft's clean image

right. And so the pro there is you don't

get the stuff you're talking about
like the Anti-Virus

whatever stupid utilities people
put on there.

The minus side is you may not get the

driver you know Lenovo, HPNO and probably

Dell have decent utilities for keeping

that particular machine up to date with

drivers for example you don't
get that thing.

And so you might have to do a little bit

of extra work if you want some of that

stuff or if you need it you know if you

look in device manager and some of your

stuff hasn't been recognized you know you

might find yourself going to the HP
or Dell or Lenovo or whatever you get

Microsoft's clean image right. And so the

pro there is you don't get the stuff

you're talking about like the Anti-Virus

whatever stupid utilities people
put on there.

The minus side is you may not get the

driver you know Lenovo, HPNO and probably

Dell have decent utilities for keeping

that particular machine up to date with

drivers for example you don't
get that thing.

And so you might have to do a little bit

of extra work if you want some of that

stuff or if you need it you know if you

look in device manager and some of your

stuff hasn't been recognized you know you

might find yourself going to the H.P. or

Dell or Lenovo or whatever website and

downloading the drivers but at least you

have that option now.
And so I think that's

lot closer to a signature P.C.
type experience

except that it's not fine tuned for YOUR

exact computer which was the

point of signature.

-If anyone wants an almost
Signature Series

just buy the retail version of the

operating system and that's what you get

and yeah it sounds stupid but it really

there is something that is so nice about

starting the P.C. and realizing the only

thing on here is the bare O. S. everything

that gets added on is my choice.

-And that's by the way another thing I

think we all do with these devices doesn't

matter what you're talking about a phone,

tablet, computer. That first day you

install the things you know you need right

Just the absolute necessity.

-Yeah for example I need to
install chrome.

-Yes exactly which I believe it’s the only

reason it exist. Over time as you use the

device whatever it is you know P.C. tablet

whatever you realize oh wait I need this

thing too and it spirals right so over

time you fill the thing up and you. You

know there's a bunch of junk on there but

those first couple days are wonderful.

It's like the. You know the out of box

thing is kind of like it should be. I mean

it's not always with the P.C. If you get

the wrong kind but you know
that's what it is.

And we kind of try to recapture that magic

every once in a while.
Let's reset it back a little.

-But we do have to talk about the layoffs

at some point because it is a big story

and it's not it's not it's not
totally unexpected right?

–Right! -We saw this.

-Yeah we did and you know I think a lot of

people forgot but in July Microsoft

announced during S.E.C. filing
that they're

going to be laying off. Almost 3,000

more people this fiscal year which is

their fiscal 2017. Over the weekend there

was a report by the Financial Times that

Microsoft was closing Skype London and I

saw some people report this says and

laying off 400 people but actually the

number that Microsoft is laying off is

closer to 230, I think?! I called them and

asked them how many people is it and they

said it's about 230 and that's a
combination

of people who work for both
Skype and yammer in London.

Some people be moved to the Paddington

office some are just going to be let go.

They also last week. Paul and I kinda were

catching bits and pieces of this through

Facebook because we saw different people

we knew posting to Facebook that they had

been cut but they cut another 300 people

on top of that mostly from the Puget Sound

Redmond area and a few people from other

geographies around the world. These 500+

layoffs that happened last week are part

of that 2850 that they announced in July.

This isn't a new group of people who

didn't you know who Microsoft said and

we’re adding another 500. These are people

all different divisions not
all concentrated

in one division. Except for the Skype and

yammer part that are being let go across

the company. Microsoft's definitely

continuing to tighten, you know belt

tight, doing belt tightening across the

company getting rid of people before the

layoffs were largely Windows phone related

and Windows Mobile these new ones are not

because they pretty much laid off all of

those people originally it was a bunch of

the Microsoft sales people because they

had a sales reorg this year when Kevin

Turner left. Now we're getting into the

product areas some people in Windows,

some in , people across different parts of

the company. So if you hear
about layoffs that

happened recently that is what happened.

-Yeah a lot of my Microsoft contacts are

heads down right now. Not necessarily

because they're fearing this round but

because they realize you know what

Microsoft is actually, they're not doing

the cutthroat competition anymore but they

are looking to the various departments and

finding out “Do you have any personnel

that have not really contributed anything

in the last five years?”

-I think the H.R. term for these
people is dead wood?!

-Yeah and it's always difficult to talk

about someone like that but if you've been

at a company for twenty years. And you

haven't really been challenged or maybe

you've become really really cynical it

might be time to move on. I've seen that.

-In over the past year or two as we talk

about layoffs obviously there's the human