Windows Weekly 484: Microsoft for Life!

It's time for Windows weekly with

Paul Thurrott and Mary-Jo Foley.

Microsoft wants you for life,

and their ready to kill the next screen.

Paul is excited for the new Xbox and

Mary-Jo talks about Microsoft's

bad cloud day. Window's Weekly is next.

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This is Window's Weekly with Paul Thurrott

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September 21, 2016 Microsoft for life!

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It's time for Windows weekly with
Paul Thurrott and Mary-Jo Foley.

I'm Father Robert Ballecer in for
Leo Laporte

who is currently looking for the answers

to life, the universe and everything

acrossed the pond. Of course Paul Thurrott

is the guru behind Thurrott.com the

previewer of news, reviews and analyzes

for tech enthusiasts. Mary-Jo Foley the

mastermind behind ZDnet All About

Microsoft blog. Together their here to

bring a light to the deep cave of

Microsoft news, like a over charged light

bulb battery exploding in the darkness.

Paul, Mary-Jo so good to have ya.

(Mary-Jo laughs)

(Paul) It's like your introducing

Bond villains there.

(Mary-Jo) I know I was like Wow!

The masterminds.

(Paul) Master of Disaster Mary-Jo Foley.

(Father Ballecer) Do you have a cat?

and can you do this with your fingers?

- I think I need that on a business card.

If I still used business cards I would.

That is one of those strange things.

At these conventions that we go to
these shows

we all do the business card thing and

I've even got down the whole Asian thing

of handing like this and a bit of a bow.

But, um, those collect dust afterwards,

I almost never use them.

- No, No! I don't even have one.

- I was going to say I think I have some,

but I've never brought them anywhere.

-Wait!, You two go to shows, don't you?

It's kind of a thing, it's how you say
hello, right?

- uh

-Well now people just say, "where can

I find you?" and I just day "All About

Microsoft"

- Mary-Jo and I just bump our phones

together and say "Power twins activate."

(Mary-Jo laughs)

- No, I don't know every once in a while

someone will hand me a business cards

and I have a momentary bit of confusion,

like I don't have one of these things,

or I don't have it with me.

You know I feel, it's like a weird moment.

I feel like I need to give them something

in return, it's like someone comes over

with a gift and you don't have anything

to give them.

-Yeah, that's what it is. I know
I'm handing

out cards like they are candy, but it's

just because I want to give you something.

It's like thank you very much for
your time,

uh, here's something, and stop talking

to me now.

(laughing) yes, right!

(Paul) I've met the social obligation

(Father Ballencer) And if you actually
want to see

where this is gonna be put up you
can contact

ma at this other wise I'm just gonna
assume

that you just don't care (Mary-Jo) Yep
(laughter)

(Paul) I needed a resume for something,

you know, like a year ago or more, I. . .

Thurrott.com, what do you mean I...?

(laughing) I don't keep track of my

accomplishments, I'm not even sure what

I would do with that.

(Father Ballencer) Our Field producer,

Colene Goldstein, she's actually

really good LinkedIn. Before she
hands over

her card, she'll just say can I find
you on

LinkedIn and she's just building up
this huge

network of all these people that she's
connected

to and she says that's far more efficient

than trying to take a card and then
remember

where it came from and who they

represented six weeks ago.

Because remember a lot of the people that

you meet don't actually work for
that company

they work for a PR company that represents

the company that you are talking to.
(Paul) Right.

and you won't remember who that is unless

you actually write it on the back of
that card

and even then sometimes you don't remember

- I have to look at the lower third to
remember

Mary-jo's name. (laughing) you know I'm

really not good at that kind of thing.

(Mary-Jo) He's bad at this thing.

(Fa. Ballencer) I have to look down here

If I don't see that?

(Paul) Hi! I'm Fr. Rob, What does
that say?

(laughing) Sir Foley, no let's not
do that.

I'll right let's get away from social
convention

cuz we've got some pretty spectacular
windows news

who's got this first one, because
eventually

Microsoft has finally "oh! that's right
we're not

offering the free version anymore,
maybe we

should kill that nag screen"

Mary-Jo - Yeah I can start it off a bit.
Um,

Yesterday, the 20th, Microsoft put out a

KB article that said "Hey we're finally
going to

push through Windows update, an update

that takes away the Windows, get
Windows 10 app.

So if you remember July 29th was the
actual day

the offer to get a free Windows 10 ended.

And at that time they said it might
take us

a little while to faze this out
because we've

so thoroughly inundated everyone
with this app

and the promotion. So actually the real

day when this ended at least when
the app ended

was yesterday. And it's starting to roll

through the Windows update. It replaces

the get Windows 10 app and it goes away.

But the weird complication
not complication

but the weird kind of coincidence is

you can actually still get Windows 10
as free upgrade

You just have to use your existing
Windows 7

or 8.1 product key and you can still
unlock the free

upgrade, which is something Microsoft
is not

actively advertising, but Paul has been
verifying it daily.

(Paul) well weekly

(Mary-Jo) I've been asking him
is it still up

(Fa. Bellencer) Cuz, I was told
that if you do

the get Windows 10 thing and then
you roll it

back you're always set you can always
re-download it

(Paul) Oh! yeah, yeah this is for
new installs.

In other words you have never
done this before

you have a key you can do a clean
Windows 10

right now and it would still work.

(Fa. Bellencer) Wait! What? That's not how

it's suppose to work.

(Mary-jo) Yep
(Paul) I know, and by the way

one day it won't, I mean maybe
this weekend

or the weekend after that, someday,
I'm gonna

wake up, I'm gonna test it and
it's not gonna work

you know it's just.. It's going to
happen eventually.

But, um, I wrote an article about this

not working probably a month ago
in anticipation

of it not working and it's just
kept working

the things been sitting here at
my desktop since

August. (Fa Ballencer) So you just try and

do an update everyday just to make
sure it still goes?

(Paul) not everyday and least once a week.

- Now does this

(Mary-Jo) Yesterday, I said to him can you

still do it? And he's like, Yep you can!

-So does this now increase the
value of the

Windows 10 upgrade, because now
you can't get

it except maybe if you know this
super secret,

now do people actually want it?

(Paul) I.. No.. I suppose..
I think the issue

is.. Well if you wanted to save some money

I suppose you could go buy Windows 8.1

product key and you know, well you

wouldn't actually buy Windows 8.1

I should say, it's possibly you can
buy a copy of it

somewhere cheaper because nobody wants it

anymore and than you could upgrade
now for less money

than buying Windows 10. Or maybe you just

had keys for some reason, maybe a
company that has

keys allotted or you bought the
package version

at some point, maybe you bought
the Windows 7

family pack back in the day and you
only used

two of the three keys and you've got
an extra

one sitting around for what ever reason.

If you have a key it will work. If you

got them from TechNet that will work.

um, and someday it won't. So, we'll see.

-Microsoft won't say when they think

it will no longer work in fact they aren't

really publicly saying that it still works

if you ask them, they just don't answer

when you ask about this.

And I assume it's the same thing
that they said

about the get Window 10 app

that it might take some time for them

to shut it off. But the other
theory is they

are just leaving it open for those laggers

who didn't get around to updating by
July 29th

and they can say to them "You know what,
psst

by the way."

- It doesn't hurt anybody, I think
that's the

point that if they are people out there
in the world

with Windows 7 install that they've
never done

Microsoft would much rather see them be on

Windows 10, if they're going to do a
new Windows

install. Why wouldn't they want that.

- I can also see this heading off a lot of

complaints from people who said "oh man

I tried to upgrade and I totally forgot
and I

did it in August and it didn't
work anymore"

No that's not actually a valid excuse.

You know September 21st, October 21st,

It's starting to get to the point where

you can't pretend you've been

procrastinating and than just forgot
I mean,

You know at some point it's just. . .

Their just leaving it open, its fine.

I have no problem with this.

- This is actually a huge opportunity
for us

because I know Alex has been trying to

update the Tri caster to Windows 10

(Paul) Actually Padre, Let me correct you

you shouldn't run Windows update on the

Tri caster, New Tech doesn't say
you should

So I really hope that nothing. . .

Oh Crap! (Laughing)

- This is what happens, You get a
nag screen

in the middle of Windows weekly

that's oddly blocking me out entirely,

that's different (Mary-Jo) It is

You know we're going to have to live
with this

for the next 20 -30 minutes because

unfortunately, click the initiated
and it'll

take that much time to install and

uninstall it. (Mary-Jo) They'll see
us though

we're off to the sides. Not when you zoom

on us, but the big picture you can see us.

(Paul) How do I know that this
graphic hasn't

been used more gleefully on
Macbreak weekly

and whatever morning show I'm sure you do?

(Fa Ballencer) Uh, this weeks it's Google,

I think this is actually the
new title card

for Floss Weekly. Um Floss Weekly will

never reserve your copy.

Do either of you still have Windows 7,
8 & 10

Machines in your environment?

(Mary-Jo) Yes, I have 7,

(Fa Ballencer) So no 10 at all?

(Mary-Jo) Yeah I have 10 and 7, but no 8

(Fa Ballencer) Really? I have 7, 8.1
and 10

(Mary-Jo) You have all of them.

(Fa Ballencer) Well because I mean 10

does still kill some of my USB devices

so my production machines have to stay 8

and I have one laptop and that just works

better at 7.

(Mary-Jo) I just have the desktop I still

use because it's just an older machine,

the Dell that I've had for awhile
I just left

it on 7, cuz I'm like Eh, when I need to

replace the machine Ill just get

Windows 10 machine.

(Paul) But what about all those
gotta have it

apps you can't run?

-Um?!

(Fa Ballencer) Now a quick question,

this really did hurt Microsoft's
reputation,

right? I mean Yes, That number of how

many deployments they have of Windows 10

is forever going to be asterisk.

People said "Well how many of those were

accidental upgrades or how many of those

were installs and then rollbacks almost

immediately. This. . Will people
forget this

or will Windows 10 upgrade nag screen

be the butt of jokes for the next two

decades. (Paul) Honestly I think they've

irreparably harmed their reputation with

this and not just Microsoft generally but

the reputation of Windows as well.

The forced upgrade thing was a
huge mistake

on their part and a very risky gamble and

the recent people aren't going to forget

it is because they came out and said we're

going to hit a billion within two to three

years and then right before Windows the

windows ten free upgrade ended they said

you know what we're not going to make that

goal and so even though they did that they

were unable to you know meet
this reasonable

goal, I thought, of reaching a billion

users in that timeframe.

- You know Mary Jo there's two ways to

look at this. There's one way and
this would,

I think this is where Paul lines up, there

was an executive or some marketing person

who said you know what we want to hit a

billion because it sounds like a
great number.

So let's just force this on people. The

other way to think of this is that some

engineers said you know what people

will like ten if they just try it if
we just

get it on the machine they will understand

what all the hoopla is about.

Which of those do you fall with?

- So I also, like Paul, think this was a

big mistake and the part that really

kind of riled me the most was when

Microsoft was taking the tack of saying

it's for users own good that were doing

this and you know I was like wait this is

so paternalistic How can you say what's

for my good or my mother's good who

accidently got Windows ten and
like flipped

out when she got it you know I just think

that argument didn't work. I'm happy. They

made a free upgrade available very easily

to people but I don't think they should

have rammed it down people's throat.

But it's also, I don’t know
if it qualifies

as ironic but, You know one of the kind of

contracts you enter into with Microsoft

when you do install or get Windows 10 is

you're accepting a constant stream of

upgrades and you really can't do anything

as an individual to befriend that from

happening. Least not elegantly or easily

and your introduction to this new world is

Microsoft seamlessly and inelegantly

jamming Windows 10 down your throat

you know it's it's kind of a nasty preview

of what the future holds for you when you

do this and it's just the wrong first step

you know to resent, it was a
terrible mistake

- Yeah and then the, you hiding of the way

that you would actually accept the upgrade

where people were closing the window.

That was really bad. That made like a bad

situation worse. So yeah not a good look.

- In writing about this topic today

I decided not to go back and hit on every

single little milestone in this because

frankly it's kind of depressing.

You know, when you go back to look at the

sheer amount of stuff that both of us I'm

sure have written about this get
Windows 10

thing since last year and the various ways

they changed it silently some Windows

Update, or group of Windows Updates would

go out, some of them would prevent the

blockers from, you know or the un-blockers

I guess from you know working.

some of them would change the way the

dialog looked or worked. You know in the

past when you close the window, it would

just go away but at one point when you

close the window you silently
have accepted

the upgrade and that's purposefully evil.

It's terrible.

-For me I think that hurt more
than anything

else because I understand wanting to

force out the update. Especially since

they believe it's going to be much more

secure, it's going to be much more feature

rich. But the fact that they kept playing

cat and mouse with people who just didn't

want to be nagged anymore. That's the

reputation strike it's like ok
if I went to

the trouble of removing that nag screen

then obviously I'm a savvy user if I can

do that. So the fact that you're trying to

work around what I did. Now I feel as if

we're playing Microsoft nanny state.

-Right -Yeah, yeah

A lot of times you know they keep saying

you know what, we're letting people get

around it, if they go in and edit the

registry settings. I'm like, wait a second

hold on, that's not something most people

should do. In fact, probably very few

should do it. And so when that was

like “Hey were give you an alternative

to get out of it. I was like uh, that's

not a good option.

-That's not an alternative.

–No

- I mean the funny thing they get looking

back over a year of articles
for this topic.

What I reminded myself of was in late June

one month before the free offer ended.

They finally added something to that

box that said I don't want this please

stop asking me. It took them eleven of

the twelve months to get to that point.

That's how it should have been on day one.

You know it's just uh, you just can't

recover from this. We don't know, we may

never know the psychological impact that

had on what may or may not have been

very good to Microsoft customers that day,

who upon looking for a new computer at

some time in the future may decide they

need, they are going to get a pro book

instead or a mac book or well probably not

a Linux computer that's crazy.
But you know

what I'm saying. That they're
going to look

at an iPad even or something, whatever.

And just make that decision because they

don't want to be harassed which is a

completely reasonable request. You know.

-Let's close the book on this bad chapter.

–Yeah, yeah I think so.

It's not a mulligan but it's since you say

OK you know what, you kind of hit some

of the numbers you wanted not the big one

but now actually show us that our faith in

you is not misplaced. But to be fair, we

could look at other companies in the

industry, like Google that are doing the

same sort of strong arm tactics.

Google right now is making a big push for

HTTPS, they want everything to be encypted

end to end on the internet, that's a good

goal, but some people feel that their

approach is heavy handed. Now, the new

updates to Chrome are going
to automatically

mark any site that doesn't have
HTTPS built

into it as insecure so that little icon is

going to pop up, warning people that maybe

they shouldn't visit the site.
People think

that's heavy handed, but those looking at

it say, "well this is ultimately going to

lead to a better internet." you could make

the same call here. You could say "Look,

this was heavy handed, this was

Microsoft being the worst of the nannies,

but a more secure OS ultimately is a

better experience."

-All of the goals that Microsoft had for

this were valid right. Even the
self-serving

ones you know, the notion that we would

all be better off if more of us run the

very latest version of the O. S. and were

always updated to be on that version would

make us all more secure because it's less

work for Microsoft to do to fix
the problems

you know, are going to occur down the road

Everyone benefits from that there's no. .

you can't really dispute it. But the

problem is when they say oh good, everyone

agrees? Good! Now you're all getting the

new upgrade is like whoa whoa hold on a

second, you know, you mention for example

that you have U.S.B. devices that don't

work on Windows 10. I'm sure anyone.

listening to this has some examples of

some things whatever might be, uh…

that don't work you know or some reason

whatever it may be that they couldn't

upgrade. I mean you can't. . . I don't

believe you can I mean they
tried you can't

really just jam this kind of thing down

people's throats.

-And for our few fruit flans in
the chat room

right now. Why is it that Microsoft trying

to force Windows 10 on people was a

boondoggle. Whereas another company's

decision to remove a standard
port was brave?

(Mary-Jo laughs) Courage

(Paul) Good marketing.

(Fa. Ballencer) Maybe this was just

Microsoft’s courage, and we’re all just

misunderstanding it.

-Uhm –Ok (Laughter) -Well OK

(Paul) It was courageous of them
to attempt.

(Fa. Ballencer) It was, it was. Although

I will say something I really don't like

is the fact that they've disabled
something

from 8 because if you do Windows stacked

side by side it's pretty seamless but if

you do one on top of the other there's

always a hard break as you move between

screens. In 8 you used to be able to

disable that sticky window, you just move

right through it. You can do the same

registry edit in 10 but it doesn't fix it.

That never goes away and that's why I

don't understand that, Go figure.
All right.

When we come back. We need to talk about

something a bit more cheery because we've

we've been hammering on Microsoft
so rather

than talking about a forced
Windows 10 update

I think maybe we should talk about some

Layoffs -Yeah. (laughter)
-Oh boy!

–Yay let’s get pumped. But first let's go

ahead and take a moment to thank the first

sponsor of this episode of Windows weekly.

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OK this is one of these stories that it

almost feels as if a
continuation of stories

that we've already covered but who

wants to talk about the bad news for

pink slips over at Microsoft.

(Mary-Jo) Oh wait, can we talk about the
Skype thing first.

(Fa Bellencer) OK sure. OK You know

what that's hold off on the super awesome

(Mary-Jo) I mean it's related but we can

we could kind of mix it up a little.

-The people getting pink slips got
them over Skype. (laughter)

(Mary-Jo) That would have been interesting

(Paul) Which explains why some of them

have been home. Some of them got it
seventeen times. (laughing)

(Mary-Jo) Burn, burn
(Fa Bellencer) ok Skype, let’s do Skype.

-Ok so this um, Paul should the S.M.S.
relate because you, I think you've

actually looked at it, right?

-No, well not exactly, so, Err,
how do I explain this,

but earlier this year Microsoft announced
a feature that was going to come

in the Windows 10 anniversary
update called messaging everywhere

and the idea is that you have a Windows
Phone or an Android phone

and you can use your computer to send
text messages and receive text messages

right like you can do in a Mac if you
have an iPhone as well.

And everyone was really excited about it,
some insiders started testing it

and then very late in the game they said
you know what.

Actually we're not going to put
this in Windows ten.

This makes more sense for Skype
we'll put it in the Skype preview app

but sometime later in the year they
yanked it out of Windows 10

some people were disappointed you
know because they were using it

but you know I think we can agree that
a messaging feature makes more sense for

Microsoft's messaging solution than it
does for Windows specifically so

it's going to be part of Skype. So
in the most recent Windows insider build

which was released last week I think
Microsoft's added this feature in for

the first time and now they're calling it
S.M.S. relay actually been calling

about for some time but it's a slightly
more technical and less interesting name

and the functionality is supposed to work
the same way in this initial version

however you need to have the latest fast
ring version of Windows 10 from

windows insiders. I think 14 9 23 or
something like that. And you also need

to have that same build on Windows 10
mobile it only works on those two systems

so I have both of these things
but I couldn't get it.

I'm not seeing it on my phone
I don't know why.

but the idea again is that you can from
the Skype preview app on Windows 10

for P.C.'s send and receive text messages
and so if your phone is over the corner

charging somebody sends you a text message
you get a notification on your P.C.

click on it you can reply to it right
there. It sends out over your phone

as you would expect so it's coming.
And it will come as part of Skype, right?

so we won't have to wait for the next
major version of Windows 10 to get it.

Which by the way is another one of
the advantages of putting it on Skype.

-You know what's weird though I think I
messaged you about this that I have an

Android phone. I have a Windows 10 P.C.
and I am seeing my text messages

from my phone show up on my Windows 10
P.C. and I'm not on

the insider program right!
–Which is really interesting.

-Yeah, So I think it's because of Cortana
though because I have Cortana on both

and I believe that also gives you some of
that functionality but that then

I'm like OK So is this in the future
going to be taken out of Cortana?

-Yes so, right. Actually it's kind of
confusing because this is hum,

I wrote a book about Windows 10 that I'm
still updating for the anniversary update

and one of the things I put off literally
to the very end that I will wrote right

in the last of all the new content is
phone integration because it's actually a

little convoluted there are three ways
right now that you can get information

back and forth from your phone through
Windows 10 as I understand it. One is this

new S.M.S. relay feature in the Skype
preview. One is the thing you're seeing

which is the Cortana integration but
there's also like a Windows phone

integration I will get Windows Phone
notifications in Action Center on

Windows 10that are notifications that
came from Windows 10 in the phone and so

they could be about anything it will be
like Facebook updates.

You know different things from different
apps on the phone and those things will

actually surface in Windows 10 of my P.C.
as well. So I'm still trying to kind of..

where and how all these things happen
and why you know it's interesting I have

three different phones, so I have and
Android phone like you do and I have the

Windows Phone and also an iPhone
So the iPhone doesn't really do anything

but the expectation is that you'll have a
pretty decent level of functionality

through Android if you have Windows 10
and then obviously if you have

Windows 10 mobile you would have
the best experience

because those two things would
be tightly integrated.

-You know that's something in a
feature I actually would really like

something in Windows that shows me how
the various services integrate because

it's always an crapshoot for me about what
notifications I get on what devices like

you I've got I.O.'s devices I've got
Windows devices I've got Android I think

Windows Mobile and it always, I’m never
really sure what is syncing and what's not

-It's like a roulette wheel and I just was
speaking Skype specifically, this morning

I was chatting with Brad on Skype & we're
you know we're texting back and forth

he writes, I write you know five minutes
goes by, 15 minutes and all of a sudden

one of my three phones in this case it
was my iPhone the screen lights up and

I look over and it's a Skype notification
of something. Brad had written me on Skype

about two minutes earlier. And so for
some reason that one version of the app

on that one phone lit up. It was like all
my devices or weight are in the back and

one of those are like I got it. I got it,

and it just kind of like I'm having an
active conversation in Skype on Windows.

You know why? Why would these other
things? You know how it is, if I go to my

Android phone and I turn them on right
now and I go into Skype. You know thus

waking it up which is a mistake. It's like
Jason from Friday the 13th or something

but if I do wake it up briefly it will
flash those one two three conversations

that are marked unread the conversations
I had earlier with Brad actually this one

from Twit and the conversations I had
with Mary Jo according to this version of

the app these conversations are unread.

-I know, that happens to me too. Yet when
I when I've had my Windows 10

laptop off for a while I turn on you know
they all the messages filtered through

but then some show up as unread
and some show up as read.

-Yep.

-So I'm not sure what makes
both of those things happen.

-Yeah I ended up going into Windows 10
notification I just turning off everything

because I was so tired of
receiving the same notifications 15 times

-Yep

-Actually there's something else that I
do love the syncing across accounts

that actually does work nicely except
for the fact that at home. I've got this

monster set up with two 4K. monitors
and a bunch of little monitors around the

periphery and it tries to import those
preferences into my laptop and it doesn't

matter how many times I tell it not to do
that it. There's always an update in the,

the switch gets turned back on & suddenly
all the text on my laptop is tiny.

Because it's adjusting with what it thinks
I want to the desktop, which that's again

I want some sort of central control panel
that shows all my devices and which

settings are moving between which devices.
It sounds like that's an absolute

necessity now with all the different
devices that we use. And with all the

syncing that Microsoft trying to build
into the products. That's a necessity.

-Yeah you know obviously Microsoft doesn't
have a big presence slash

any presence in Mobile and so one of the
concerns that they have that maybe Apple

doesn't have and Google only has to a
lesser extent say with IOS Devices is the

cross-platform stuff you know Bart W on
Twitter's ask Mary-Jo and I if S.M.S.

relay is coming to the Skype apps on IOS
and Android as

well and it's a reasonable expectation
that it would but

you know of course on Android you have
a Microsoft has a

much easier way of getting into the
system and making

this more seamless whereas in IOS,
if you think about how

Cortana works you kind of have to go
in and run the app

for some things to happen. You know it's
never going to be as. .

even though it can you know, it can sort
of run in the background a little bit

you can never be sure that it will always
be there. This is more easily done on

Android and Windows Phone So if you…
Mary-Jo do you know off the top you head

has Microsoft ever spoke to S.M.S relay
on IOS Android?

-I don't remember them saying that.

–It seems like it would have to the right?

(Mary-Jo) I know it does seemed like it

would have to

-What would be the point of S.M.S relay

to Windows 10 mobile?

-Right.

- Mary Jo I've got an enterprise question

for you. Do we know how many versions of

messaging Windows has.. uh Microsoft has

because you've got Skype. You've got

Skype for business. You've got Skype for

broadcast and then you've got the link

stuff which was actually supposed to take

over for the Skype stuff but then that

seems to be flipped. Now that we've got
the Dela

do you see what's in the strategy going

forward or we just keep getting fractured

off into different types of Skype
and do they still have

that artificial delineation
between consumer and enterprise?

-They do. They still have the delineation

there is still Skype consumer and Skype

for business are not the same product

even though they're both called Skype and
you're right. Link is still kind of

hanging around for some on promise the

stuff but ultimately Link, the Link name

will totally go away and link will be

completely superseded by Skype for
business that will happen.

-Because that was going the other way. I
mean Skype was going to go to go away and

they were going to keep Link and so now
they've reversed on that.

- Yes So I think they're being pretty

consistent on length being supplanted by
Skype for business.

-OK.

-I think next week which is Microsoft

ignite we might hear some new things

about Skype for business and kind of

where that's going because every time we

ask Microsoft about Skype they'll answer

Skype consumer questions but they won't

talk at all about Skype for business. And

I think next week's show because it's a

very I T pro focus show we probably will

hear some new things about Skype for

business and hopefully about how it's

going to be syncing soon with OneDrive

and OneDrive for business. That's

something people are really waiting

anxiously for and last we heard that was

going to happen in the final calendar

quarter of this year. So we're almost in
the final calendar quarter.

Seems like we should get some new
News on that next week.

- Wait Skype for business will sync with
OneDrive?

-With OneDrive for business, yes!

-How does that.. Wait what is it syncing?

- They’ll be integration. Sorry. Am I
saying OneDrive business or

am I thinking Share Point.
I’m thinking about Share Point.

-OK, OK that makes sense

-Sorry I'm thinking about Share Point

when I'm saying OneDrive for business but

um, it may, Microsoft talked about Share
Point and OneDrive business being able to

actually have better sync across those

two products and they said that was going

to counter Q four and I think that's what

we might hear about next week. But yeah

you know every time we ask about Skype.

You know we've heard recently that Skype

is moving to this new kind of universal

next generation client and when I asked

Microsoft you know does that also mean

Skype for businesses is going to be on

that same universal client.

They said we're not really talking
about Skype for Business.

-You're like whoa.

-Don't get ahead of yourself here.

- And don't forget the upcoming Skype for

Web R.T.C. because I mean that's also

another universal client and universal,
universal.

-But we should talk about this thing that

surfaced this week called Skype for life.
Speaking of .

-Oh good I was just hoping we would have
another Skype.

- Speaking of Jason from Friday the 13th.
(laughing)

-OK what is Skype For Life?

-OK So ARS Technica Dr Pizza over there

got a tip from one of his sources or

maybe multiple sources that Microsoft was

working on a product called Skype For
Life and he and a lot of us have first

kind of thought maybe this was a name for

the universal Skype client that would

work across all different platforms that

would be kind of like what Microsoft has

described as the universal Windows

platform equivalent but for the other

platforms like IOS and Android. But then

Paul dug around a little and thought it

through and he says no but that is not
what that it is.

-No! No I mean I talked

to Peter about it., Skype, Ironically.

And I don't doubt that he was told this

and I don't doubt that the person who

told him saw this and thought that they

understood what they were seeing but you

know I talked to the Skype guys back in

June or July about the strategy Mary Jo

just discussed where they're moving to a

new generation clients they have updated

their back end infrastructure they

temporarily have to maintain the old

P.D.P. infrastructure for certain

applications or services but that's going

to be going away. The combination of

these two back end services explains the

Skype reliability issues that we've all

seen over the past you know several

months I was told. And I thought you

know, Skype For Life and making yet again

new, some new client that would somehow

run across all those platforms didn't

make any sense to me and if you look at

that next to their previously stated

strategy it's clear to me that Skype For

Life is just a marketing term and what

they're describing internally I think is

the culmination of that previous existing

strategy that the new infrastructures

switched over to their new clients are

all available. They all interact and all

have the new features and it's not that

it's one client's I mean obviously

Windows will have P.W.P. clients, IOS and

Android will have native apps there,

Linux will have what they have and there

will be the web version as well. And

these things will have some baseline of

functionality that works across all of

them on this new infrastructure that's
the point of it.

-You know what I'm going to still be a

doubter here. OK I don't think, I think

the more I think about this the more I

think you're right that it isn't a new

totally new Skype client. I think that

would just be crazy and kind of going

back to what they just got away from but

I think Skype For Life is something else

and the reason I'm thinking that it's a

marketing slogan but, maybe it's

something like you know they call Skype

translator a feature of Skype like that.

That's how they brand that and Skype for

teams which is what they're going to be

doing to compete with Slack. I also think

they'll call that a feature of Skype. I

don't think they'll call of a new version

of Skype. So I'm thinking Skype For Life

might be something like using Skype to

improve your life in some way. So maybe

it's like I don't know I'm just I'm

totally reaching here but Skype like

maybe Skype and the Microsoft Health

platforms somehow connected or you know

Skype being used for some specific thing

that's more about health and welfare and

maybe a very specific almost like a

vertical I'm just guessing here again but

I think it's something else.

-I mean that seems very far reaching. It

might be simpler that you know it's funny

we were just kind of joking around and

slash complaining about how you know

Skype will ring on various devices and

whatever because we have various devices

because we're nerds and so Skype For Life

could be as simple as what I think of a

Skype everywhere this this feature you

know that a normal person with a computer

and a phone or a tablet and a phone would

want to get messages everywhere and

that's the For Life. In other words.

Whatever your life is whatever your

habits are whatever devices you choose to
use Skype will be there. You know.

-That could be

-I just you know regardless of what it is

I mean I think it's mostly a marketing

term. Right. Not so much a product. And

it's almost just a way to describe
functionality to normal people.

-I'd be down with the marketing term. I
spoke with a rep a Microsoft rep over at

IFA in Berlin last month and or no this

month and of course didn't want to talk

about it but what he was describing was

that this is Skype UC this is the unified

communication promised the idea of we

don't want Skype to be an app. It

shouldn't be something you start up it

should be something that is just

everywhere. They're using Microsoft

products. You should be able to say

Cortana call Paul Thurrott and it will

automatically kick out Skype and it

doesn't even call a Skype it just

connects. Hum, and I can see that I mean

that UC promises has been something

that's been around for ten years maybe

this is Microsoft finally saying let's do.

- Or saying we finally have enough pieces

in place for it makes sense right. I mean

even the things like integrating Skype

into Outlook.com and OneDrive.com on the

web or the Outlook 2016 Mail clients in

office 2016 which you know depending on

your view of things you might find

incredibly useful or incredibly annoying

because it certainly on the web, they

don't do a good job with that but

I think that these things are all part of

… how do you describe a bunch of little

things? It's a.. what's the theme? You

know universal communications is how we

would say it in the enterprise and maybe

Skype For Life is how they want to say it
to people.

-You know what Padre just gave me a crazy
idea another crazy idea.

-Oh good

-What if Skype For Life is a bot?

-Oh

-Now they’re intergrading more bots into

Skype right and there's been all this

talk about a concierge bot that Bing was

working on for a while to be kind of like

your personal assistant for a life. You

know somebody who you could say hey what

movies are playing can you get me some

tickets. Maybe this is Skype For Life?

-But then Skype for life would have to
fight Cortana to the death.

-I know. Yeah. BOTS and Cortana they...

I think they're siblings I think they're
friends but yeah

-Their twins, Skype For Life is the twin

they kept in the closet until he was a

teenager so he’s a little stunted.

We've actually got people in the chat

room, we've got ‘hey it's Todd’ who

suggested that Skype For Life is actually

the name of a new form of judicial

punishment and then you see the really

really bad, you only get to use Skype
(Laughing)

-It sounds like a big punishment.

-And a guy could be like oh I’ve been
Skyped.

-Should it just be Skype 10? I mean,

cause that was the whole idea of Windows
10. It is the last Windows you will ever

own is this Skype 10 is it like look it
will always be this way.

-And what you're supposed to do

everything to ensure it. That’s windows.
God bless

-The ultimate Skype.

-Honestly Windows 10 is a terrible name

right. That should have just been Windows

I don't think we need to go 10 I think if

anything we should be stripping the

numbers off of the products that still
have numbers.

-Maybe they really want it to be
Windows X.

-Apple's doing that right? Apple's
changing back

-They've kind of moved to the right

because they still have version numbers

obviously you have to have the stuff

behind the scenes but you know they talk

about the new version MacOS as Sierra.

You know and they've been doing that for

years. I guess but they really they

emphasize that you know it's a friendly

name and I think that's a nicer approach

than some godly book like H.P. product

names or version or just not version

numbers because numbers or even using the

version number the name is just it's just

it's I think that's just old fashioned

-Yeah

-Yeah it's kind of I mean because you
have to…

-I know especially if its the last right

last version of something, supposedly

-It should have just been Windows
ultimate,

Oh wait, we've already used
that. Never mind!

-Calling something the last version of

this product is like the worst way to

market something ever invented. You know

this is the last version we're ever going

to make a Windows. Oh know we’re gonna

keep updating it, but this is the last
one.

–There’ll be some serious updates to it
but no, this is it.

-So it really is just not smart mart.
(Sigh) I'm going to be…

I'm going to change my name to Padre 10.
I will be the last Padre, you’ll ever know

-Actually if you can change it to 10.01.

-There'll be updates to Padre, but this
is really the final version.

(Paul) There will always be that
little hidden miss.

(Mary-Jo) Padre Hena-versary.

-Don't we… the Padre anniversary edition.

It's ten pounds lighter but has all the
features. (laughing)

All right, we're going to bog down a bit

too much and it is a fun story, but there

is one more story that has so much fun it

has to be dispelled. Paul. There were

people screaming all over the Internet

that Microsoft is being the big bad by

trying to lock Linux out of new P.C.'s Is
this true?

–No! And that's all we need to say about

that. If I could somehow make a career

out of just debunking stupidity. Right. I
mean I just… you get into these

conversations of people on Twitter who

see these stories and they.. I think it's

the way conspiracy theories work right.

It's.. it hits on your internal beliefs

and so you instantly throw common sense

to the wind and say oh course their doing

this. Microsoft is evil. It's like guys

it's not 1998 anymore it could be maybe

upgrade the way we think about Microsoft

and their relationship with Linux in

particular. The topic and if you don't

know what it is I guess we should

probably step back a second and say that

somebody had discovered that a Lenovo

P.C. bought from the Microsoft store so

it's a signature P.C. and thus is running

something called Windows 10 signature

edition which doesn't exist. Somehow has

the magic capability of preventing Linux

from ever being installed in that

computer. That's not a capability of an

operating system that’s something that

would have to be built into the firmware

I guess of the computer I mean I

obviously there's always going to be some

way to brute stall anything on there but

you know, read it happens. There’s one of

the guys from ZD Net wrote a very calm

and collected article but anyway I

appreciated that. But here's the thing,

signature P.C. is as I describe it.

I think the smallest province of the

windows empire that exists in Microsoft.

They have no power at all the very notion

that they could require a P.C. maker to

do anything is ludicrous. Let alone the

world's number one P.C. maker. Microsoft

is not the business of blocking Linux.

They never really were. But it's one of

those things like a lot of people kind of

like want to believe is the case. Some

guy supposedly from Lenovo got into a

support forum somewhere and said Yeah.

This might this is part of our agreement

with Microsoft. That's not true. By the

way because Lenovo came out with a

statement and said no that's not what's

happening. It's one of those things like

you don't actually have to know the

answer to know the answer. It's a little

bit like the Skype For Life thing like if

you think it through. It's like this is

not what's happening and so I ... I'm not

the one that got the statement so I think

it's Tech Republic. They've got the

statement but I did a write up about it
and uh debating it…

-This is just secure boot on the UEFI
right?. I mean that's all it is.

-It's not exactly but it's that exact

kind of topic yes but Lenovo has a one

of, it's probably just one Lenovo

computer actually but there is a Lenovo

computer that has a very strange raid

S.S.D. configuration and as people are

discovering if they try to clean install

Windows 10 on that computer it won't work

either. It's. It's a very unique

configuration. It's not part of a secret

cabal with Microsoft to screw Linux users

out of their new computer but you know I

think I said this to Mary Jo privately or

maybe Brad we were I was chatting with

somebody earlier today and so consider

the market out there for people who are

going to buy a Windows based computer and

install Linux on it right and there is

some number it's a small number but the

some group of people do that. And now

let's consider the subset of those people

who are going to drive to a Microsoft

store pick it lovingly pick out their…

you know favorite signature P.C.

configuration from the store, buy it from

Microsoft. You know their favorite

company. And then put Linux on it. I mean

like I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm

not saying it's not going to happen but

c'mon. I mean and this is Microsoft's.

Path to world domination we're going to

do it through the signature pieces that

nobody even knows exists at the stores

and you can't even find there where you

live. It's just the whole thing is loaded

it's just typical. Watching this cascade

across the Internet today. It's just as

depressing. That's just so typical. You

know it destroys your faith in humanity

or reconfirms my belief that we're all
idiots. I mean it's just it's sad.

-And he thought Lenovo did show. I mean I

can't remember what they call it it's

like software services but then on boot

up you actually get the option of what

packages you want to install. So you
could make it a signature…

-You mean..?

-All the crapware.

-That’s interesting. So Lenovo not the

only P.C. makers starting to do that kind

of a thing and I really like this

approach it's because it's something P.C.

makers are not familiar with called
customer centricity.

You know H.P.’s newer machines will do

the same thing and in the past you get a

bunch of utilities and things running in

the tray and whatever was. Now you have

to seek out those applications and at the

time that you run it. It says hey we have

this tray thing we can put it and you

want to use it and if you say no that's

in the end of it you know and that's the

way things should be you know don't you
think. Yeah so.

-Well it sure beats me having to spend the

first thirty minutes of my new P.C.’s life

uninstalling everything that came
pre-installed.

-Yes right. Actually we will never be

deemed intelligent beings by future

civilizations because of things like this.

It's like when you buy an electronic

device and spend the first thirty minutes

updating the software or when you buy a

smartphone and you install apps and you

spend the next seven days removing or

changing notifications or like what you

just said you buy a new P.C. and the

first thing you do is take things away

from it. It's like this is so counter

intuitive and counterproductive and

yet we just sort of sort of accept that

this is the way it is you know.

-That's what makes me so sad that

signature seems to be kind of not an

emphasis anymore because I

remember when I got my Acer S7 it

came to me as a signature device and I

didn't even know it was going to and it

was such a different experience.

-Oh yes by the way. So let's see four

years ago this month. Microsoft opened

their store in Boston and I bought the

very first computer that was sold at that

store which is a fifteen inch
Samsung Ultra Book.

It was one of the last Windows 7 computers

they sold right because Windows 8
came out.

Thirty or forty five days later
and to this day

when I restore that thing and it goes back

to that clean Windows 7 signature edition

thing with beautiful wallpaper and you

know no crap anywhere it's still like this

calming almost transcendental moment like

you open the thing up And you’re like nice!

You know and that's not the reaction

typically happen with P.C. right?
It's too bad

-I mean seriously there is something about

having to do a hard restore where you to

go back to the factory disks and you know

yeah when any time you do that there's

going to be hours and hours if not days of

updates it's going to have to go through

round and round and round but that's not

the infuriating part for me because that I

can just leave off in the corner.

The infuriating part is I know I'm already

going to have an anti-virus it's going to

take five restarts to fully get rid of

because it just sticks in there and you

have to do a little bit of registry
editing

to get rid of the stuff that doesn't
uninstall at all.

-I know we've talked about this on the pod

cast whatever. You know some months ago

but as part of the Windows 10 anniversary

update there's a new tool
it's not actually

included in the O. S. but it's linked to

from the O. S. And so I think people are

probably familiar with the reset your P.C.

functionality of that they viewed
in Windows 8

also available in Windows 10. Thing is if

you use that on a P.C. that came from a

P.C. maker which is you know most P.C.'s.

The P.C. maker can edit that image that's

installed so the crap all comes back right

when you reset the P.C. you get the crap.

But there's a separate tool called refresh

Windows it's linked to from the same place

in the settings up in Windows 10 with the

anniversary update. You download the tool

it downloads Windows 10
it's a clean version

of Windows 10 and then you can install

that and then so instead of getting the

crapware laden version you might get from

say whatever peace maker Dell, HP, Lenovo

whatever you get Microsoft's clean image

right. And so the pro there is you don't

get the stuff you're talking about
like the Anti-Virus

whatever stupid utilities people
put on there.

The minus side is you may not get the

driver you know Lenovo, HPNO and probably

Dell have decent utilities for keeping

that particular machine up to date with

drivers for example you don't
get that thing.

And so you might have to do a little bit

of extra work if you want some of that

stuff or if you need it you know if you

look in device manager and some of your

stuff hasn't been recognized you know you

might find yourself going to the HP
or Dell or Lenovo or whatever you get

Microsoft's clean image right. And so the

pro there is you don't get the stuff

you're talking about like the Anti-Virus

whatever stupid utilities people
put on there.

The minus side is you may not get the

driver you know Lenovo, HPNO and probably

Dell have decent utilities for keeping

that particular machine up to date with

drivers for example you don't
get that thing.

And so you might have to do a little bit

of extra work if you want some of that

stuff or if you need it you know if you

look in device manager and some of your

stuff hasn't been recognized you know you

might find yourself going to the H.P. or

Dell or Lenovo or whatever website and

downloading the drivers but at least you

have that option now.
And so I think that's

lot closer to a signature P.C.
type experience

except that it's not fine tuned for YOUR

exact computer which was the

point of signature.

-If anyone wants an almost
Signature Series

just buy the retail version of the

operating system and that's what you get

and yeah it sounds stupid but it really

there is something that is so nice about

starting the P.C. and realizing the only

thing on here is the bare O. S. everything

that gets added on is my choice.

-And that's by the way another thing I

think we all do with these devices doesn't

matter what you're talking about a phone,

tablet, computer. That first day you

install the things you know you need right

Just the absolute necessity.

-Yeah for example I need to
install chrome.

-Yes exactly which I believe it’s the only

reason it exist. Over time as you use the

device whatever it is you know P.C. tablet

whatever you realize oh wait I need this

thing too and it spirals right so over

time you fill the thing up and you. You

know there's a bunch of junk on there but

those first couple days are wonderful.

It's like the. You know the out of box

thing is kind of like it should be. I mean

it's not always with the P.C. If you get

the wrong kind but you know
that's what it is.

And we kind of try to recapture that magic

every once in a while.
Let's reset it back a little.

-But we do have to talk about the layoffs

at some point because it is a big story

and it's not it's not it's not
totally unexpected right?

–Right! -We saw this.

-Yeah we did and you know I think a lot of

people forgot but in July Microsoft

announced during S.E.C. filing
that they're

going to be laying off. Almost 3,000

more people this fiscal year which is

their fiscal 2017. Over the weekend there

was a report by the Financial Times that

Microsoft was closing Skype London and I

saw some people report this says and

laying off 400 people but actually the

number that Microsoft is laying off is

closer to 230, I think?! I called them and

asked them how many people is it and they

said it's about 230 and that's a
combination

of people who work for both
Skype and yammer in London.

Some people be moved to the Paddington

office some are just going to be let go.

They also last week. Paul and I kinda were

catching bits and pieces of this through

Facebook because we saw different people

we knew posting to Facebook that they had

been cut but they cut another 300 people

on top of that mostly from the Puget Sound

Redmond area and a few people from other

geographies around the world. These 500+

layoffs that happened last week are part

of that 2850 that they announced in July.

This isn't a new group of people who

didn't you know who Microsoft said and

we’re adding another 500. These are people

all different divisions not
all concentrated

in one division. Except for the Skype and

yammer part that are being let go across

the company. Microsoft's definitely

continuing to tighten, you know belt

tight, doing belt tightening across the

company getting rid of people before the

layoffs were largely Windows phone related

and Windows Mobile these new ones are not

because they pretty much laid off all of

those people originally it was a bunch of

the Microsoft sales people because they

had a sales reorg this year when Kevin

Turner left. Now we're getting into the

product areas some people in Windows,

some in , people across different parts of

the company. So if you hear
about layoffs that

happened recently that is what happened.

-Yeah a lot of my Microsoft contacts are

heads down right now. Not necessarily

because they're fearing this round but

because they realize you know what

Microsoft is actually, they're not doing

the cutthroat competition anymore but they

are looking to the various departments and

finding out “Do you have any personnel

that have not really contributed anything

in the last five years?”

-I think the H.R. term for these
people is dead wood?!

-Yeah and it's always difficult to talk

about someone like that but if you've been

at a company for twenty years. And you

haven't really been challenged or maybe

you've become really really cynical it

might be time to move on. I've seen that.

-In over the past year or two as we talk

about layoffs obviously there's the human

side to it. It's always very tragic people

to lose their jobs but looking at the

company from sort of a Microsoft watching

perspective I think Mary Jo would agree

this is a very big and in some ways still

bloated company with lots of levels of

hierarchy and management so forth and…

You know the people I know personally for

Microsoft are to one very smart people

they do want to change the world but I

think the system they're in might be a

little too big and complex. You know for

things to happen so it's possible that the

Dell is making these changes like many of

the changes is made to speed response time

make sure they're focusing on the right

things and all that kind of stuff so.

-SCR 1 in the chat room is saying how all

their downsizing their way to success and

I know it's very easy to see it that way

but there's another view and if you take a

step back. You can actually see it. I know

Mary Jo and Paul you've both seen this is

because you cover Microsoft so deeply but

especially during the Bomber years. There

were little fiefdoms that developed in

Microsoft and the fiefdoms were all about

how many employees were under your

thumb and so you had these…
(Paul) That was awesome wasn’t it?

You had these little princes who are

accumulating kingdoms not really caring

about the productivity they were getting

out of people they were just cared about

how many people they were in charge
of and ..

-There's actually another side to this

with power comes the ability to influence

direction and I always think back to this

one example. I'm not saying that this

product would have been successful but at

the time when Steven Sinofsky was running

the Office group there was a project that

came up from I don't remember what group

it was but it was in Office but it was basically

an attempt to put Office in the Cloud at

the time they didn’t it called the cloud

but it's called Net docs and he killed it

because it competed with Office right and

the theory here is that Microsoft might

have come out with something that was

Google Docs and all that stuff
years earlier.

If they just hadn't been so or
if the people

in power hadn't been so concerned about

protecting their products. You know that

you couldn't compete with something like

Windows or Office if you did that you were

out you had to support that right. Now,

it's possible and probable that Net Docs

was a joke that it was based on Active-X.

that it was stupid. Whatever I don't know

but you know but that's the type of thing

that happens in that kind of organization.

-Plus you know we've talked about this a

lot but the emphasis of Microsoft these.

Days is very different from the
old Microsoft you know

Windows was the main cash cow of

Microsoft for years now everything has to

be about the Cloud for them and the

shareholders want that, The Wall Street

analysts want that. So if you're working

in a group that's Windows related. You

know they're definitely kind of putting

the squeeze to you. I think. And if you're

doing something that's more Cloud focus

Enterprise focused. Something that's about

collaboration teamwork that kind of gives

you an edge and I think it's
also just about

job kind of… not restructuring but more

just like changing of the emphasis set at

about what matters. And what's going to

make the money for Microsoft right.

So some of that's a play too.

-You know I think we talked about this on

Windows weekly. The notion you know the

new newer surface devices say Microsoft on

the right. And this one Microsoft notion

that we're moving forward as one company

not as the you know the guns pointed at

each other all the little fiefdoms that we

were just talking about you know it's a

new way for Microsoft. You know a new
way of doing things

-Right and that's why I actually still I'm

very bullish on Microsoft I love what

Nadella has done that idea of taking down

the ramparts and making the little princes

actually work with one another. Yeah it

doesn't work any other way. Although…

(Paul) Change is hard though because you

know externally. I agree with you right.

I think this stuff is necessary.
It's exciting for Microsoft as

a company that in many ways to become so

calcified you know for to see
them reacting

to things quickly and moving quickly as it

it's very exciting in hitting that the
right

products and things but I know from

personal experience with different people

that this change is very hard for some of

the people there's. And not just the ones

who've been let go now. But just people

who see projects just disappearing.

-But then there's some other people who

the opposites true like they've been

champing at the bit for ever to like work

with teams across teams and they're like

oh finally they're letting us talk to each

other before and that wasn't really

encouraged or even allowed right.

So those people are really happy.

Not to hammer on Steven Sinofsky

but what the heck. You know when they did

Windows 8 right. They went to the Windows

Phone team and said show us the Metro

stuff and they say here you go and for the

Windows Phone perspectives thought great!

We're going to collaborate with these guys

we're going to come out with this cohesive

system. Nope they never talked again you

know the Windows Phone guys are always

the B. team to the Windows guys now in

Windows 10 with him gone and you know

different people in place that is what's

happening but it happens.
Three to five years too late.

This is stuff that should have happened

on day one. These thing should have

evolved together. You know you could have

made the case back in I guess we're

talking 2010 -2011, 2012 certainly that

Windows Phone had been in market at

mature to some point. If you're going to

go to market with an R. T. style
tablet device.

It should have been Windows Phone O.S.

it was already there. It had to Apps. It

was all there but no they started over

from scratch. They created another Windows

system that ran out arm. Instead of you

know basing it on the thing they really
had very strange.

-About ten years ago I had a contact in

the Xbox division and a contact in the

Windows division and we had a weird

exchange of the course of six weeks where

basically they were using me as an

intermediary to pass messages. I was like

you work literally 400 yards away
from each other

What's going on here?

-Oh by the way if they're still there and

on same teams they all work for the same

guy I know -Exactly, exactly.

-That's one organization now.

-That's why they were emailing through me.

They're like we can't be seen
to be emailing

one another. Someone will see it and get

really upset I was thinking that is so

dysfunctional. That is the worst kind of
triangulation ever.

-Even you know like Ray Ozzie remember

when he was the chief scientist
or whatever

to the chief software architect. You know

you know he allowed teams to compete on

you know file sync technologies and things

like that and instead of determining you

know that you're the best ideas from each

group let's make one thing you know you

allow this internal competition to occur

and what happens on the outside is you see

that they have three different file sync

solutions at the time or four and which

one do I take a bet on and why are there

so many and doesn't the show a lack of

leadership. You know and I'm sure there

are management strategies or theories that

this is a good way to do things but we

know from experience with this particular

subject that you know that didn't go very

well. And eventually it all became
OneDrive

you know but for several years there were

many, many different solutions.

-There were. I remember when all those

think engines were out there and it was

like it was a time I should think you like

which one are they talking about right now

-I'm not going to remember all of them.

-No there are a lot

-I mean now there is Windows Live Sync,
and uhh..

-There’s a Sequel one, Sequel team was

doing a whole different sync thing.

-You know it's like a mosh pits theory of

management like let them fight it out

-I prefer the days of active sync where

there was active sync and then active sync

for mobile and active scene for enterprise

active sync for exchange because
that really

made it. You know very easy to understand.

-What do you call it when you reuse an

acronym? What is that called? Uh, You

double it up or whatever it's like they

did that with active sync was which is

ever used. You know as a term.

-Someone just thought it sounded like a

really cool name so they wanted to use it

on as many products as possible and it

took me a while to realize that
two products

that were called Active Sync actually

had… it was no sharing of the code
base between them

-Those guys probably hated each other.

-Yes. Well because it was the exchange

side and then it was the mobile side
and they didn't,

I mean, they were competing
with each other.

-I remember the spinning green circle

very well I still have nightmares about
it. (Laughing)

And that's what happens when you build a

dysfunctional company. All right. When we

come back. What's going to be? Wearables?

Ignite?. What do we want to talk about?
Ignite?

-You mean like the Note 7?

-Yeah (Laughing) It's too soon,
too soon man.

I think, let's do wearables because

everybody wants to know what's
going on with the Band

-Of course. So we'll be banding up in

just a bit but first let's go and take

another break. Because we need to thank

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(Paul) Maybe?! (Fa Bellencer) Maybe?!

You were teasing me with a pick that was

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-Well you know I liked, uh, I like

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OK, So we've got some Wearables I did see

a few of these in Berlin and they looked,

they looked wearable, they looked

interesting. But should I be
excited Mary Jo?

- I you know I still I'm, I don't have a

smart watch. I did use the Microsoft band

for a bit of time and I thought it was

OK, I use the band too but I'm I still

haven't really seen any wearable device

and I'm like, Yes, I would pay that, I

would wear that. And now if you are a fan

of Microsoft band. We talked last week on

the show that we had heard some rumors

that Microsoft may be no longer making

the band after band two. Right after the

show ended, a day later we found out that

Microsoft was rebranding the Microsoft

Health application to Band. So people who

are downloading the Microsoft updates to

the Microsoft Health application for IOS,

Android and Windows, were seeing suddenly

that it was called Band instead of

Health. Microsoft hasn't really said

what's going on with that but my sources

said to me that what they think is that

Microsoft's rebranding Health to Band

because right now Microsoft, the

Microsoft health app that exists really

just is meant to sync with the Band. It's

supposed to work with Microsoft band.

I think what they're going to do is
come out

with another new app that will be called

Microsoft Health. And that will work with

the Microsoft Health Service on all

different kinds of devices not just the

Band. They'll be able to work with.

Android devices different kinds of phone

platforms and all, all different kinds of

things and I think the reason they're

doing this is Microsoft's priority going

forward in the space is the health, the

health service and the health

applications and not so much the actual

band hardware which has been something

that a lot of people love but has had

kind of mixed success. And in fact the

Band 2 a lot of people have had problems

with it splitting and they've had to

return it and I just, I just think

Microsoft's kind of in a place right now

where maybe they're thinking about a new

wearable at some point maybe it'll be

another kind of a fitness band that'll be

branded Surface someday but I think the

Band line as we know it is done and now

we're going to see them talk about how

the health service and the help app and

not so much the Band.

(Fa Bellencer) I think are going to call
it Band For Life. I think is…

-No don't give them any ideas please.

(Paul) How did you find out about our
secret plans?

-Actually, maybe Mary Jo is right. Maybe

that Band is now called Skype For Life.

You're going to wear Skype. Because that
makes sense.

Do either of you wear a band? I like the

band, I did try it out. But do you
wear it on a daily basis?

(Mary Jo) No

(Paul) I mean well I switched to Fit Bit

three months ago ish. I mean you know I

really I like the Microsoft Band for what

it is I think it makes a great

compromise. Compromise? Is the wrong

phrase. It's a nice middle ground between

an expensive and complex smartwatch and

in a lower end kind of fitness tracker

right it I think it's got the right mix

of functionality. I think the thing that

really kills it be on the reliability

issues which you know came to light over

time is just you looking at one day

battery life. That's the problem with the

Apple Watch, it's a problem with a lot of

these devices. You know a FitBit, Ulta.

I think is the one I have the thing lasts

for seven or eight days on a charge it's

incredible and. It accomplishes the same

basic things that I like the most about

wearables today which is somebody texts

you and you can see what it is you get

you know reminders to get up and move

around. It's it does the fitness tracking

kind of stuff so I think I think they

just running into a marketing issue and

on the one hand where you know no one

even knew this thing existed they didn't

do good job of selling it and just a

battery life limitation you know an

Apple. I know wanted to put solar kind of

activity on the new Apple Watch and they

didn't because of the battery life stuff

there was no way to cram a thing
in there make it work.

Well let's, let's not say that because

Samsung did. So Samsung’s got their new

Gear S3, which does have a cell radio in

it, and Bluetooth and WiFi and it runs

for four days. So it’s posssible

(Paul) What I meant was Apple
couldn't do it.

- Apple couldn’t do it, Right!

- So uhm, one of the things that

Microsoft did with the original Microsoft

Band that was pretty impressive was just

put that much in there in a sensor sense

I think there were eleven sensors in the

first device. You know the second one

added one or two other sensors you know

they were Barometer for altitude and so

forth you know that kind of data

collection is really exciting you know

let's see what we can do with that,

promise. They never really did much with

it. You know and of course we don't do a

good job of selling it and then as

Mary Jo pointed out sadly the second one

at the same exact reliability issues as

the first and that's if there was this

kind of the end of it right there.

-They also at least at some point were at

kind of contemplating the idea of putting

Windows, some variant of Windows 10

inside the Band.

The Bands, the Band on and two both had

firmware inside. It was not Windows

inside. And right before..

(Paul) It’s basically Linux by the way.

-Is it really? (Paul) Yeah

Um right before we get all these tips

about Microsoft, maybe ceasing work on

the Band I had heard from one of my

contacts that they are the team that was

put to try to get Windows 10 to work on

the Band had been disbanded. So I think.

So yeah I think I think you know that the

idea was let's make this part of the

Windows 10 family right. Like everything

else has everything else is running what

the core of Windows 10 the Common Core.

So why not have the band do that too but

for whatever reasons they decided that

was going to work not feasible. And so

maybe it's they go back to the drawing

board. Now come up with a new wearable

that is Windows 10 core from the get go.

(Paul) Yeah I was thinking as you were

talking about other wearables which Brad

who I work with has heard as well. I was

thinking you know they have to be looking

at Window 10 this is the point you know

the universal platform that they can add

that to the list of targets you can have

as a developer. I think that has to…

(Mary Jo) Me too!

- I'm just I'm still not really sold on

the wearable tech and I've covered it

extensively. I’ve had a bunch of really

good pieces of tech in my lab but

ultimately I don't want anything on my

wrist in fact this is you mentioned

battery life this is the problem with

the technology that was

generously donated by Leo Laporte.

Basically because I waited for him to

remove things from his office to go on

the free table and I just followed ‘em

and I got myself a modem 360. It's a

fantastic piece of tech but because I

take it off and because you have to

charge it on that little awkward docking

station. I sometimes forget it
on my lap table.

- So you were just saying do you have a

band and I went upstairs and change I

actually took the FitBit off and left it

up to my bedroom. So I actually normally

have it on but right now it's not.

That's just a coincidence but the problem

I have with that exact advice you're

talking about. I have one as well. The

Moto 360 or the Apple Watch is that these

are you would get you would get used to

it because if you just use the one device

but it's as a kind of a strap that you

have. Kind of connected everything it's a

fairly you know you balance the thing on

your wrist and you turn to try and not

you know it it's because I test different

devices like I sometimes don't spend

enough time with any one device like the

Fitbit is very simple to class the Apple

Watch I find in the Moto 360. You know

you have to get used to it right. It's

kind of like tying shoes you have to do

it a bunch of times you know so you can
get good at it.

-I have to think adventurously I would

get used to it because I wore a watch for

the first 20 years of my life but since

then I just I don't want to hitting on my

wrist it just feels weird even, even

after a couple of hours of it being on my

wrist I still feel it there. I still want
to take it off.

-I wear regular watch still and I feel

weird when I don't have it.

(Paul) What do you do with that?

- I actually use it to tell time. I know
what a thought.

-And I thought watches only do things

like give you really abbreviated versions

of the text messages so that you have to

reach in your pocket to take out
your phone

(Mary Jo) And that’s why I don’t need one

- I used to, you know. When people got

laptops and then smart phones. You know

you get into that kind of meeting joke

where like people are sitting there doing

their own thing on their devices and not

paying attention to whatever the person

is speaking or saying. And that's

considered rude it might be

unprofessional whatever and so you know

one of the big defenses about a wearable

is like you know if you're a smart watch

you can casually glance down at your

watch it’s not as obvious or as terrible

as looking at like a phone screen or

tablet or a P.C. or whatever but you know

I think nothing signals to the people

you're talking to that your not attention

more than when you do this kind of thing,

like really. And now you know I mean it's
just…

- Or it looks like you're bored right and

you're like ugh is this over yet?

-We almost done here? We'll
wrap this up soon.

- I do. I love sitting at a table when

someone's wearing a smartwatch and I

think, you could tell they don't want to

be rude but their eyes keep going down in

their wrists like this, you know like I

know what you're doing just take out
your phone man.

-You should just start asking Siri

questions. (laughing)

-Siri delete that e-mail.

-Yeah. As my daughter once did she walked

into my office and she said Xbox off.
(laughing)

-And actually across the Internet there

are cries of anguish because people are

watching Windows Weekly while playing
Gears Of War.

(Paul) Cortana, What’s the weather?
(laughing)

-Oh, no! You know, I don’t know.

I understand that wearables have a bright

future I understand that it's a big

profit center. I understand it has to be

a part of any cloud strategy because it's

a great way to get data metrics but I'm

still not completely sold. Go figure!

Anything else about wearables or should

move on to Cloud?

(Paul) Sorry I was just looking at my

smart watch I missed what you just said.
(laughing)

- That's about right. Are we done
with wearables?

-Yeah, let's talk cloud

-Let's talk cloud because this actually

is exciting interesting and worthy of a

post-mortem. What happened?. Microsoft

suffered a major cloud hic up and a few

people picked up on it quickly and

actually Mary Jo, you were one of the

very first who was able to confirm that

there was outages of various Azure

services. What happened?

- Yeah I didn't, it wasn't any kind of a

great, great thing that I did. Also I

came on Twitter last Thursday morning and

everybody was tweeting to me like as

Azure is down. It's a huge outage so I

looked at the status page and they were

having a giant D.M.S. outage for Azure So

that took down ended up taking down like

almost every Azure service or at least

limiting service on it. I mean everything

was going down as Azure media services,

Azure search HDInsight, everything,

everything was it was like a cascading

thing and then there were no workarounds

being posted and people were just saying

I can’t do anything. I'm like totally

stuck. I cannot do anything. I'm just

sitting here twiddling my thumbs. So

after a couple of hours. Microsoft got

DNS back up but then in the central part

of the United States. People were still

having sequel outages. Then after

everything seemed to be solved. I started

getting people tweeting me about OneDrive

being down and I don't know if the

OneDrive part was connected to the

original DNS outage because parts of

OneDrive do run on Azure. I never could

confirm that was connected but it seemed

to be right around the same time and that

outage hit a number of people in Europe

and the US, I think also India for

number, a number of hours and Microsoft

wouldn't say anything about that one and

I couldn't get anything just that we know

some customers are experiencing problems

and we're working on it. That's it. So if

you if you want to know more about the

specifics about what happened and what

Microsoft saying they're going to do

going forward to try to prevent this. If

you go to the as Azure status page that

you could you could just search for that

as your status page and you look up in

the history September 15th. You'll be

able to see the whole poll postmortem and

dissection of what went wrong and what

they intend to do to try to sure that up

going forward. It wasn't a good day.

- It wasn't a good day and I think the

official position was that it was a spike

in Network traffic that brought down DNS

which I mean suspiciously sounds like

it's was attacked and that's what

especially some people thought.

-Some people thought that. Some people

were like it must be a denial service?

I’m like well I don't know if it is but

they're not saying it that's what it is

but who knows?

- I'm with you at the far more

interesting part of the story is not that

there could have been a denial of service

against Microsoft DNS because that could

happen anywhere. The more interesting

part is the services that are actually

linked together by Azure.

-Yeah

-It does give you a sneak peek into some

of the inner workings that Microsoft

has been very recalcitrant to explain.

(Mary Jo) Right. We know there are tons

of services available on Azure if you go

on at the Azure page you can see they

have so many different products now

working on Azure plus a bunch of other

services that are parts of things like not

all of Xbox Live runs on Azure but some

pieces of it do to so when Azure has a

major problem. It affects pretty much

everything. Office 365. I mean they're

connected in there too, so you know when

you have something like a DNS outage

pretty dire and something they needed to

fix as quickly as possible. I will give

them credit that they were giving people

very regular updates but the updates

weren't very encouraging. It's like yeah

we know this is down and we're trying

to fix it. That was kind of it. Least, at

least they were acknowledging they knew

and they were working on it because

sometimes the health dashboard goes down

to in Azure then you, it looks, when you

look at it like everything's good. But

nothing's working so at least this time.

That was not the case.

-Right and the thing about Azure is, it

is a self healing network and it should

be able to route around problems and the

fact that it did come back up relatively

quickly for such a large network that is

a testament to the technology but there

is no such thing as a network that cannot

be brought down. There's always going to

be and as long as it's using the

networking protocols that we have today.

You can take it down, if you want if you

had enough resources but, but Paul let me

ask you about this. There was a saying in

the early days of cloud computing in the

early days of say like the Google

Chromebook that. Oh this sounds like a

good idea to move everything into the

cloud until you lose internet

connectivity and then that one bad day

makes the entire investment worthless.

This was the bad day. This was business

in the middle of the workday not being

able to access Office 365, their OneDrive

to different degrees. Does this, did this

kill it, did this make it an incredibly

bad day and now it makes the
investment useless?

-No I, you know the thing that's always

lost in these discussions is that. Cloud

computing is not an all or nothing affair

when you talk about things like e-mail or

obviously if it's cloud hosted I mean it

is Cloud Hosted, even before we had a

cloud. If that thing is down, its down.

There’s nothing to do about that but you

know your data should be synced to your

client, your application should be

running on your P.C. I mean as an
Office 365

user you should have access to

functionality and so it's not that it's

not all or nothing. You know and I still

think that the promise of the cloud is

met by today's infrastructure you know

but that it can only get better with more

pervasive contact of it sort of course

but I don't know. Honestly for all of the

kind of Chicken Little stuff that goes on

with cloud computing even today these

things are kind of rare aren't they. I

mean we don't really have weekly
Office 365

or Gmail outages it doesn't really
work that way.

-No. I think one thing the bug a bunch of

people in Europe about this one last week

was the week before that there had been a

pretty not, not as pervasive but another

outage that affected Azure and people

like wow twice and two weeks what the

heck Microsoft you know come on. So I

agree it isn't something happens every

day and I don't think it's a reason to

just abandon cloud computing or say oh

that's why I'm not doing the cloud

because you know your own company's

servers go down to it if you're running

your own servers. But I think I think the

fact that those two things happen back to

back got some of the people especially in

Europe kind of agitated and

understandably so. Yeah.

-You know this is why you've got a

company like VMware which has admittedly

had some bad years as they've, as people

been moving away from virtual machines

into containers. But they're betting

everything on their N S X platform and

the NSX platform ensures a way for

enterprises to be able to do hybrid

deployment so On-Premise and not just

On-Premise and cloud but On-Premise and

in multi cloud in other words they want

to make it as easy to run in Azure and

AWS and Google Web services and the

premise at the same time so that

theoretically as long as your network is

up has some sort of connectivity. You

should still be able to continue working

and I, you know I think we're going to

see more of the big players including

Microsoft who will take that that view of

we will let you run your Azure services

on another web service to give you that

measure of security that you will always

be able to get to it even if one of these

services goes, goes down. I see that

being becoming popular. Or no?

-Yeah, I hadn’t heard about that actually

so that's kind of an interesting thing

something to listen for next week. See if

Microsoft talks about that at Ignited
at all.

-Yeah it will be uh. It will be a brave,

brave new world. Speaking of a brave new

world. There was a story that we actually

talked about the last time I stepped in

for Leo I think it was back in June of

Microsoft announcing a new Azure service

that was in Germany and the big news

about that was it would be entirely in

Germany. So all the data would be stored

in Germany they would never allow any of

the data to go to a data center that was

not in Germany because Germany has really

good privacy laws and Microsoft is saying

we will not even have access to it. We're

going to give everything to a caretaker

third party in Germany.

-Can I say Ick bin ein Berliner

-Ick bin ein.. yeah if you were a citizen

of the cloud you were a citizen of

Germany and I say to you, Ick bin ein
Azurler.

-Azulier (laughing)

-But Paul what's…what’s this all about.
It's finally out?

- This is..oh I don't, I have no idea

what this is. This is Mary

-Yeah this is me.

(Paul) I’ve heard of Germany

-So right. You've heard of Germany.

(Laughing) So today is the day that this

new Microsoft region in Germany. There's

two data centers that and that it

actually was turned on an open for

business. So um, yeah it's a big data

sovereignty story like you just said

Padre it's something you know Microsoft

hasn't been able to completely block

access to customer's data from

governments when requested and that's

what their whole Ireland case is about

that they've been fighting there but

they're trying to kind of get around this

in different ways and this German data

center idea where T. systems which is a

Deutsche Telecom subsidiary is acting as

the data trustee in this data center is

coming to play. So if you, you can decide

you want Microsoft to be the one

accessing the data there or you can say

no I don't even want Microsoft in here. I

want, I want T systems to be my

administration here in Germany. So any

Azure service that can run in these data

centers is going to have the same

protection. So for example IOT. IOT is

running in these data centers I believe

Office 365 also so you'll still have that

benefit an offer of having an external

trustee be the one administering your

data and the data will stay on premises

there in Germany. So kind of cool, kind

of like a workaround for Microsoft to try

to say you know what we're taking your

privacy seriously people and here's what

we're trying to do to get to kind of. Not

get around the law but find another

creative way to ensure data sovereignty.

- I don't think they're getting around

the law. I think they're trying to fill

in the void where the law has
not caught up

(Mary Jo) Exactly!

- The great some very high profile cases

involving Microsoft and data security

that the most high profile of them would

be the case in Ireland about whether or

not a U.S. court could compel Microsoft

to give them information that was stored

on a server that was on the land of

another sovereign country. And Ireland

was a little bit iffy because they were

going back and forth about what was

allowed by treaty and what was not but

with Germany. It's very clear. You cannot

step onto German sovereign soil and

demand something from a data center and

that's why Microsoft's set this up. But

who's going to, who's going to buy this?

Who's, who's going to want the service?

Who's going to demand the service?

- I think a lot of customers in Europe,

right? For sure. I've even had people

asking me if I'm not based in Germany

could I transfer my data from another

data center to this one and I don't know

the answer to that I think I did ask

Microsoft that but I haven't heard back.

So people, I think people are very

interested and curious about

how that's going to work.

- I'd be surprised a lot.

(Mary Jo) I would too but, yeah we’ll see

- Actually P.S. chops in the chat room

has an interesting point. He says as the

law catches up. We could have a data

privacy Cold War you have different

countries saying well I mean if you let

them into the data for our citizens we’ll

let them into the data for your citizens.

- Oh I would say right. It will also have

a situation where who's going to be the

Cayman Islands of or the Switzerland of

you know data storage

(Fa Bellencer) Data’s the new curtsey.

–They not gonna let anyone in.

-And then you'll have, you'll have the

country saying well if we didn't do this.

Another country would so we're just

providing a service that's necessary .

Wait did we just come up with a new data

laundering scheme?

-Yeah -I think we did

-Will I have to declare my data for a,

for tax purposes? Is this is how this is
going to work?

-They may. -I don't like this. All right.

You know what we talked enough about

enterprise I want to get into some gaming

and only, if only there was a member of

this panel who knew something
about gaming.

-I'm ready. Let's go.

– Go, Mary Jo I understand you're

a big uh, Gears of War fan right Mary Jo?

- Oh yes I am

-You're all about the shooting and

what weapons do they have in

Gears of War? I don't even know this game.

(Paul) What weapons? -I'm assuming

there's some guns and some knifes right?

(Mary Jo) Cats. I think there are cats.

-I get Cats. Cats are ultimate weapon.
No but Paul...

(Paul) And some chainsaws.

-Can you tell me a little bit about the

Xbox S and their Minecraft bundle because

Microsoft has been conquering the
world with Minecraft.

-Mine.. Yes they are. You know since the

Xbox One S. came out in early August

they've been kind of bulking out the

lineup with different bundles you know

they have a Gears of War 4 bundle for

example which is ridiculous looking but

the Minecraft one looks really good

actually. Especially if you haven't

bought into this yet in the Microsoft

ecosystem because it's no much. It's no

more expensive than the normal console.

But you get the game for free. Obviously

an Xbox 1, you get the game for free on

Windows 10 and then you get a bunch of

favorites and builders packs just you

know downloadable content that you

normally would have to pay for. All

bundled into this thing and so for $300

bucks I mean this is actually it's a

great deals and then Minecraft is amazing

and so if you've never experienced

Minecraft I mean this is a great way to

get into it. So that's kind of a cool

one. And then the Gears of War 4 news is

that the game was completed this week. So

it's gone gold. It's being released in

October and if you preorder it. You can

play it. I think it's four days early so

I believe it comes out on October 11th

and those who preordered it. I don't know

if probably digitally obviously. Can

start playing it on the 7th and so this

is a new kind of a rejiggering of the

story you know so there was a trilogy of

Gears of War games that came out on

Xbox 360 was made by a third party

developer Who, why can’t I think of the

name of the company? That's crazy!

It doesn't matter they sold
it to Microsoft

and so now Microsoft and using this.
Say again?

–Oh Mojang

-No Gears of War – Oh Gears of War, Oh!

Wasn’t that just 360 studios?

–No it was the Cliff Bleszinski guys.

Uh it kills me when I can’t think of stuff

(Mary Jo)
Bungee?

–No, Bungee’s Halo

–I’m just guessing.

–Oh, um was it the same studio that did
Bio Shock?

- Nope. (laughing) this is embarrassing.

So anyway whoever it was.

(Mary Jo) Let’s just keep guessing.

(Fa Bellencer) Atari?

(Mary Jo) Epic games?

(Paul) Wow! Epic Games. So they did the

original trilogy on the 360, it was
a 360 exclusive.

Well it was a Microsoft, it's a, the first

Gears of War game actually shipped on

Windows and then they did the 360 version

and so now on the Xbox 1, we have the

original game is available remastered the

other games are available backwards

compatibility and now we're getting a new

Forth game which takes place you know 20

years later there's you know, you know

the story. All hell breaks loose etc, etc

So it's a pretty big deal because

you know exclusives kind of drive console

sells and so forth so Microsoft has had

Halo and Gears two and so Gears have a

new series of Gears games coming out for

the Xbox 1 is kind of a big deal. So we

shall see. Someone included with us in

software. Nope!

- It's kind of interesting that's
October 11th

because that's also a big day for

Dynamics 365. I’m just saying.
-Yikes.

Yeah I'm sure that's not coincidental.

- I'm sure it's not. (laughing)

-Well I mean dynamics is one of the most

profitable division in Microsoft

currently has. So, I mean naturally. ou

You see the tie in, right? Well let me ask

you this we're thinking about doing a

little Gears of War thing here at the

studio because Lee has got his Xbox. I've

actually got an Xbox 1S on its way along

with Gears of War when it comes out but I

will be in Rome. So it's shipping to me

in Rome. We're all going to have our

little Kingston Gears of War branded

headsets. I think we need a death match.

-Yeah OK. I'm not great at death match I

will say um.. Gears of War, those games,

the single player stuff has been really

good, a story has been good for the most

part. The death match stuff, if you're

really used to the fast moving kind of

twitchy. You know Call of Duty type stuff

it's a little more grounded. They've got

it a little bit more vertical over the

years but you know especially the first

game, you kinda crouch low to the ground

and that was pretty much where you stayed

so I'm not I'm not great at it but.

-Well I mean if you play with us. I'll

try to get Pope Francis on the

controller. I've heard that he can frag
like nobody else.

-I just want to hear him swear like a

sailor. That will be the best part.

-Gears of War is pretty good but the one

that I was most impressed with at E3 and

the one that I really, really want to

play is Cup Head because that looks

fantastic. And I know, I know Paul that

you love that game.

- Well actually I will say even Mary Jo

is looking forward to it.

- I was curious about that one, actually.

- I kind of you know like forty style

animation. Things like that.

- It's steam boat Willy.
–Yeah

- There were a few. There was the ship of

thieves or ship of, yeah ship of,

Ship of Thieves or Sea of Thieves?!

(Paul) I’m not sure.

-There were a few at E3 that

actually were kind of interesting.

(Paul) -3D Realms. No it wasn't 3D Realms,
sorry. (laughing)

-Are we back to just naming off studios?

–Yeah I don’t know

-All right, well when we come back it's

time for tips and picks to close out the

show but first let's go ahead and thank

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Alright. I always get confused by
the Q. and A

who's the Q. and who does the A.?

- I don't even know if we need to
do a Q. and A today

because we have so much in the picks.

- Oh yeah actually I love your picks this

was an interesting one. I saw this and I

was wondering where we were going to go

with it but let’s just find out. D. Apple

find your iPhone, I don't even know
what that means.

- Oh well let me explain.
I'm a Microsoft guy

obviously right? I’ve been writing

about Microsoft technology products for

20 something years. I approached things

from kind of a Microsoft standpoint but I

think it's fair to say that in the
mobile world.

Things have gone in a slightly

different direction and so like Microsoft

itself you know we kind of have to adapt

and you know before Microsoft shipped

Windows Phone I was an iPhone user

because Windows Mobile was so terrible.

I used Windows phone for several years

obviously things have kind of fallen

apart over the past couple years and so

I've spent a lot of time looking at

Android and iPhone and I would say to

people who are Microsoft people you know

Microsoft fans, or Microsoft users,

customers whatever. Android is probably

the closest thing you're going to get to

a Microsoft type experience but more

important because the system can be, you

know adapted and customize so much you

can change the lock screen, the launcher

screen. I mean it basically everything

about it. It affords you the opportunity

to have a real Microsoft experience

because Microsoft makes lock screens and

launchers and you know keyboards and all

kinds of things for Android so you can

have a real Microsoft experience on the

internet but people who use iPhones do so

for a reason. There are good reasons to

own an iPhone you might get one from

work, you might have to have one and so

I've been using an iPhone for years

really. In fact I've owned I've owned

almost every iPhone model that Apple has

ever ship I've only didn't purchase two

of them but I've always worked very hard

to kind of keep the distance from some of

the Apple products and services. I don't

use things like Apple music or iCloud or

Siri or any of that kind of stuff and so

I wrote an article about this but I've

been doing a series of tips about using

Android from kind of the perspective of a

Microsoft guy. I have written a few

articles like this for iPhone but not

nearly as many and so recently I kind of

summarized a bunch of thoughts around

what it's like to use an iPhone from a

Windows or Microsoft user perspective and

you know again you can't, there's not

much, you can't change the launcher

screen, you can't, you know there's no

Microsoft lock screen that you can

install you kind of stuck with some

aspects of it because that's you know

what Apple does but actually iOS is open

up you can change the keyboard you can do

swift key which Microsoft owns you want

to do that and Microsoft, all of

Microsoft's high profile apps are on

iPhone as well. And so the point of this

is just that you don't have to give up

your soul. Per se to use an iPhone.

-No I think buying an iPhone you kind of

gave it up already. But I’m just saying.

-Actually, so by the way that's more fair
than ever because with this version of
the iPhone the availability was so
limited that I had to get a gold version
and uh I can tell you that was not a
proud moment.
-Rose gold or just plain gold?
-No I didn’t go rose gold but I do end up
buying gold.
-Isn’t that actually part of the price?
You do give your credit card and a piece
of your soul.
–And a piece of your soul, yeah I guess.
Literally one pound you know.
-How much does the human soul weigh?

(Paul) One pound. – Is it one pound? Well
good because I know I can give away a
couple of grams and still be good.
-Yeah mine's a little fatty. But it's
good eating. -Actually I just got all my
bloodwork back and I am surprisingly in
good health and I didn't expect that.
(Mary Jo) That's good. -Except for my
triglycerides I guess pork rinds are
really bad for you.
(Paul) I'm somewhat surprised by that. Do
you eat them in like a cheese bath or? –
No, I bathe in them. (Paul) Oh,yes! - I
sleep in a bed of pork rinds. (laughing)
(Paul) That's it's good for the skin.
-It's for that fresh pork smell you know.
All right so we've got a D. Apple find
your iPhone. We've got an app pick of the
week. Who's got fire watch?

(Paul) I do. So, I have a bunch of epics.
So the big one is yes fire watch. So fire
watch is a game that ship like I think
last year on PlayStation 4 and also in
P.C. through Steam. I played through day
one on Raphael’s PlayStation just to kind
of give it a shot. I really, really enjoy
this game and so just today. Literally it
shipped on Xbox 1 you can get it now on
Microsoft's platform and so same exact
game it's a wonderful game it's kind of a
it's kind of a like interactive adventure
basically it is there's a mystery and
it's got beautiful graphics and you know
immersive sound and all that kind of
stuff but it's I mention that when I
talked about this on the podcast just a
few weeks ago I said I'm going to try to
get my wife and daughter to play this I
think this is a game that would, is

compelling to people who don't play video
games in the same way that a you know a
mystery series or something which is
interesting to people I think people can
get into this. So it's a great, great
story. It's a really neat game and the
Xbox One version has some unique stuff as
an audio tour and when you finish the
game you can actually free roam around
the environment you can see the whole
world that they created for the game.
(Fa. Bellencer) This looks a little like
mist. It's got, it's looks like it's got
that same sort of artistic. (Paul) Don't
ever compare this to mist again.
(laughing) No it’s a.. OK well I guess
what I would say is, you know mist for
the day was seemed photo realistic I

guess I'm sure we would look at the quite
same way today. This obviously has a bit
of a I don't want to say cartoon but it's
clearly graphics like they don't attempt
to pull you into thinking that this is
you know real photograph quality graphics
but that the graphics are beautiful. It's
a beautiful game. You know really really
well done the whole thing, the whole
presentation is great .
(Fa. Bellencer) It's not a horror game is
it?
(Paul ) No but this is a mystery. It's
like ,it's the type of thing where you
know you show up at your new job out in
the woods and you go investigate what's
going on when you come back. Someone has
ransacked the tower that you live in and
you know the music kind of kicks in like
tick, tick, tick, you know. You can tell
it's like it's getting a little stressful
like what's going on here. And so it's

just it's a mystery that you uncover.
(Fa Bellencer) As long as the Slender man
doesn’t jump out.
-Well it's sort of, sort of does.
-Oh really? (Paul laughs) Not exactly.
Just a few other things I want to throw
out for apps because a bunch of stuff
happened this week. I do an app race and
mobile app pick of the week, and a Skype
preview app. We’ve already talked about
this but if you're on the insider program
it's certainly worth looking at. I
haven't gotten it to work but I know
people have if you're interested in the
SMS relay stuff that is available if you
have both Windows 10 and Windows 10
mobile. Microsoft has also updated a
bunch of its mobile apps on the Internet
IOS and so on Android, Word, Excel and

Power Point, the kind of the core apps
have much simpler sharing capabilities
now and also I can’t … here and
collaboration features and in OneDrive. I
don't actually, it's funny I read the
description of the new OneDrive app on
IOS and I don't think the graph. I don't
think graphically looks any different.
That they're calling it a file centric
U.I. or whatever but it looks the same to
me but there's a new me tab and a U.I.
that lets you access all of your account
information and a bunch of other stuff
that was just hidden away before so
that's kind of cool and then the new
Outlook.com which by the way I still
don't have I think I'm on what are we on
the day 457 or something. If you have it.
I know Mary Jo does. They've added

integrated support for a Google Drive and
Facebook photos meaning that if you're
going to, if you're sending out an e-mail
“Hey I just went on this great vacation.
Here are some photos.” You can pull those
photos in from other services now include
you know the Google Drive and Facebook
photo. I'd love to test that feature
Microsoft. If you're listening.
-They're calling it OneDrive For Life.
-Yep. (laughing)
(Mary Jo) You're going to be the last one
the very, very last one to get the new
Outlook.
- Now that you've asked for it, that's
how that works. Sorry it's a rule. (Mary
Jo) Yep
(Paul) I observed on Twitter, the other
day that hearing that other people have

the new Outlook.com is like when you're
at war and you find out that the buddy
you're in a foxhole with is going home
and you're happy for him and in one way
but you're also like you're really upset
with him you know because he's leaving
and you're not you know I mean it's the
same kind of weird mixed feeling.
-So what Paul is telling us is if any of
you get the new outlook. He will (Paul
and Fa Bellencer) Shoot you in the back.
(Mary Jo) He wants to know immediately.
-This is good. This is good to know good
information. Mary Jo fully your
enterprise picks of the week.

-OK so my enterprise pick is going to be
what to think about and look for next
week at the Ignite show that Microsoft's
having in Atlanta. Paul and I are going
to be there a lot of other journalists
will be there but looking ahead I'll tell
you what I think we're going to hear a
lot about. So it's very interesting to,
at Ignite this year, there is only one
day of keynotes. The morning keynote
starts at 9:00 A.M. on Monday September
26th. It goes till 10:30. Microsoft's
going to be webcasting that and then
there's an afternoon keynote which is 4
to 5 on the same day. That's it for
keynotes. So there's going to be a lot of
recording of all the different sessions
of Ignite and it'll be up on Channel Nine
Microsoft Channel Nine. I think we're

going to hear this is this is kind of a
no brainer. A lot about Windows Server
2016 there because that's where
Microsoft's going to quote launch the
product. It won't be available that week,
which is next week but right after it. I
think you know first second week of
October. You'll see it starting to be
generally available. So expect a lot of
Windows Server 2016 all the new stuff
that's happening with containers in
Windows 7 2016 we’ll hear a lot. We’ll
probably also hear a lot about nano
server which is a new role for a stripped
down role in Windows 7 2016 next week.
We're going to hear a lot about Azure
stack. Azure stack is basically Azure
that you can run in your own data center
or that your club provider can run in

their data center for you. I think maybe
we'll hear about Technical Preview two of
Azure stack next week it will be around
the right time and Microsoft said
recently that Azure stack won't actually
be available until mid-2017. So it's
running late. But I think, I think they
do want to get the Technical Preview out
there there's a lot of sessions about
Azure stack. I think there's going to be
some meet ups and they'll be a big
representation for Azure stack. Also we
haven't said this word on Windows Weekly
lately, Data Lake's I know every wanted
to hear it. So I think next week.
Exactly. You're going to hear a lot about
Data Lakes. Everyone drink! Data Lake is
the big data repository technology that
Microsoft had in previews since last

September. I think maybe at Ignite we're
going to hear them talk about Data Lake
technologies being generally available so
we'll hear a lot of big data talk a lot
of Hadoop talk probably will be tied in
with some of the data summit
presentations that are happening
simultaneously with that Ignite in
Atlanta next week. More probably more
about Microsoft's data scientists degree
program which they gave a little sneak
peek of at the world wide Partner
Conference. I think the first class they
graduated from that degree program is
going to be announced or somehow
represented at Ignite. That's my guess,
because Microsoft said that that group of
people would be graduating in September.

So we're in September. Still I think that
could happen next week and then there's a
thing that I've talked about before in
the show called open mind studio which I
think is kind of like Visual Studio
except for machine learning. I would be
very surprised if we don't hear about
that next week too. So all of these
things and more. I'm sure. Probably a lot
of office Content Officer 365, Office
Crack, Share Point all your favorite
Office topics will be there as well and
we've said this before. Paul and I are
doing Windows Weekly live next week with
Padre from Ignite at our usual time 2:00
P.M. on September 28th, 2:00 P.M. Eastern
and then we finally know a better meet up

or meet up is going to be held on the
28th right after the show. It's going to
be 5:00 to 8:00 P.M. It's at a bar craft
beer bar called Argosy A R G O S Y in
Atlanta. And I guess it's the Argosy East
version of Argosy So if even if you
aren't at Ignite and you don't have a
badge you can still come to our meet up
at 5:00 to 8:00 P.M We've tweeted out
about it a couple times more about it. So
definitely if you're an Atlanta or near.
You can come and join us there. And while
I'm talking about events. I want to throw
one more Paul and I also are going to be
in Las Vegas the last week of October. At
a couple of shows that are held together
called DEVintersection and IT

intersection. We're going to be speaking
there too and probably will have a meet
up there. If you want to know more about
that there's a lot of really good
Microsoft speakers. Stephen Guggenheim is
going to be there. Scott Hanselman and
who else. Brad Anderson a lot of big
Microsoft names plus a lot of the
M.V.P.'s and big well known speakers in
the community there. DVEintersection.com
You can find out more there. So that's my
mega enterprise pick for the week.
- That is a lot of picks. Of course we've
got Ignite coming up. So that's expected.
And it close us out we've got the code
name Pick of the week and the beer pick
of the week which I'm actually looking
forward to because we're going to be
doing a beer episode of know how. I may
not drink beer but I do like the smell.

(laughing) OK so, should I do code name
now?
-Do it
-Code name pick of the week is project
Bletchley and yes it is named after that
Bletchley if you know what I'm talking
about here. Let's see the one in
Bletchley Park in England. So this, what
project Bletchley is… is Microsoft's code
name for Azure block chain as a service
middleware. So, since last year,
Microsoft's been trying to work out a way
to make Azure blocked, Azure block chain
as a service be something that people
might use in various industries not just
for bitcoin mining and all but also in a
lot of enterprises especially banking and
finance because what is blocked chain
it's actually a distributed Ledger

technology so that makes sense in a lot
of different enterprise type
applications. What they decided to do was
to try to use Azure technologies to make
it easier for people to build
applications that could take advantage of
block chain as a service. So they came up
with this idea of project Bletchley in
July. They put out a white paper and said
“This is how we think this might work.”
This week they actually put out what they
are calling version one of project
Bletchley. What it is…is a template. So
version one's just a template basically,
but it's a pretty powerful template. It's
a template that is made to help people
figure out how to kind of on board into
Project Bletchley. I wrote a blog post

about this. I have a whole bunch of links
with different things about The Cryptlets
technology that's part of the Project
Bletchley, how that works and
architectural diagrams for people like
that stuff. And Microsoft has a
walk-through of how to use this template
so if you want to just start kicking the
tires now and seeing what is this thing
as you're blotching as a service. You can
start doing that now through this
template that is available through the
Azure Resource Manager portal. That's the
code name.

- Whoot, fantastic. And of course we got
to do the beer pick of the week right?
- Yeah so this is a very interesting bear
pick. Stone Brewing, San Diego area,
makes a lot of excellent beers of all
kinds. They have a very famous series of
beers that they've done called the
Vertical Epic series. So every year like
on February second. The second of
February which is 2/2/2002 they put out a
beer. That was called the Stone Vertical
Epic series 2/22 they did one in 3/33,
4/44 and these are huge collector's items
like people pay hundreds of dollars to
try to get these old very rare beers from
Stone so that they can have different
taste from the Vertical Epic series so

stone being the smart burgers that they
are decided on their 20th anniversary to
remake some of these famous beers that
they've brewed over the years and one of
the first that they remade is the 2/22
Vertical Epic. So they call this the
stone 20th anniversary encore series this
is 2/22 and 2/22 I've had it a couple of
times I've had the original and I've also
had this remake. It's really good Paul
would love this. I know strong Belgian
Golden Ale like all the things you love
in a Belgian beer. It's almost like a
strong wheat beer. (Paul) It’s pretty
much all the things I love period. (Mary
Jo) It is pretty much, right? Orange

flavoring very effervescent, very it's
not light like a lot of wheats because
it's a strong Belgian but around 7%,
really good really, really good and the
remake I can tell you is equally good. So
if you see this Vertical Epic. Series
called The Encore Series, definitely give
it a try and know 88/8 is also available
now and I think will be others coming out.
-There you have it. All the news that's
worth having if you're a Microsoft fan.
Paul Thurrott, Mary Jo Foley, thank you
very much for making this an entertaining
enjoyable and very informative two hours.
Paul Thurrott of course again behind
thurrott.com. Paul, what are you working
on, what should people be heading over
thurrott.com to find?

(Paul) What am I working on? I can't
tell you that. (laughing)
(Fa Bellencer) Can you hint? (Paul) No I
mean I… No. (laughing) (Fa Bellencer)
Your silence says it all. (Paul) We’re in
the middle of a… we're rolling out like a
premium service on the site and so I've
been a little preoccupied with a bunch of
that stuff lately so it's coming soon.
That's all I can say. (Fa Bellencer) So
just go to thurrott.com and find
everything there is to know about the man
who writes the book. And that would be a
slogan. If I were making slogans that
would be the slogan I would come up for
you.
(Paul) Not quite as good as the Man With
No Name but yeah.

- A woman who does have a name is Mary Jo
Foley of course of the “All About…” I
always say Android but it really is
Windows. “All About Windows” blog over at
Z.D.Net. Mary Jo you always are my source
for Microsoft happenings in the
enterprise anything interesting going on
your side that you're particularly jazzed
about?
-I'm just I'm like really jazzed about
Ignite next week because I think they'll
be some pretty cool enterprise
announcements. And it's going to be great
that we're right there on the ground with
all the big guys like Mark Russinovich,
and Snover all the who's who. So I think
we'll have some really good news stories
next week.

-Fantastic! Again thank you for making my
job that much easier by being absolutely
brilliant and entertaining hosts. Don't
forget that we do Windows Weekly here on
Twit T.V. every Wednesday at 11:00
o'clock P.M. Pacific. 1:00, no 2:00
Eastern. I'm not good at this Leo does
all the time zones. All I know is come to
live.twit.tv and you can watch and as
long as you're watching live why not jump
into the chat room at irc.twit.tv
It's a good way to talk to the host,
talk to me and just enjoy the experiment
that is Twit T.V. Also don't forget that
you can find us at our show page
twit.tv/ww In case you want to download
some back episodes check the show notes
or maybe even subscribe. If you want to

support the show that really is the best
way to do it. Of course you can also find
Windows Weekly wherever fine podcasts are
aggregated till next time and Father
Robert Bellencer in for Leo Laporte we're
going to be coming to you live from
Microsoft Ignite next week but until then
take your with Newsweek.