Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights
-
0:01 - 0:04I'd like to have you look at this pencil.
-
0:04 - 0:06It's a thing. It's a legal thing.
-
0:06 - 0:09And so are books you might have
or the cars you own. -
0:10 - 0:12They're all legal things.
-
0:12 - 0:16The great apes that you'll see behind me,
-
0:16 - 0:20they too are legal things.
-
0:20 - 0:24Now, I can do that to a legal thing.
-
0:24 - 0:27I can do whatever I want
to my book or my car. -
0:27 - 0:30These great apes, you'll see.
-
0:30 - 0:33The photographs are taken by a man
named James Mollison -
0:33 - 0:36who wrote a book called
"James & Other Apes." -
0:36 - 0:39And he tells in his book
how every single one them, -
0:39 - 0:42almost every one of them, is an orphan
-
0:42 - 0:45who saw his mother and father
die before his eyes. -
0:46 - 0:48They're legal things.
-
0:48 - 0:50So for centuries, there's been
a great legal wall -
0:50 - 0:54that separates legal things
from legal persons. -
0:54 - 0:58On one hand, legal things
are invisible to judges. -
0:58 - 1:00They don't count in law.
-
1:00 - 1:01They don't have any legal rights.
-
1:01 - 1:04They don't have
the capacity for legal rights. -
1:04 - 1:06They are the slaves.
-
1:06 - 1:09On the other side of that legal wall
are the legal persons. -
1:09 - 1:11Legal persons are very visible to judges.
-
1:12 - 1:13They count in law.
-
1:13 - 1:15They may have many rights.
-
1:15 - 1:18They have the capacity
for an infinite number of rights. -
1:18 - 1:21And they're the masters.
-
1:21 - 1:26Right now, all nonhuman animals
are legal things. -
1:26 - 1:29All human beings are legal persons.
-
1:29 - 1:31But being human and being a legal person
-
1:31 - 1:37has never been, and is not today,
synonymous with a legal person. -
1:37 - 1:40Humans and legal persons
are not synonymous. -
1:40 - 1:43On the one side,
-
1:43 - 1:47there have been many human beings
over the centuries -
1:47 - 1:49who have been legal things.
-
1:49 - 1:51Slaves were legal things.
-
1:51 - 1:55Women, children,
were sometimes legal things. -
1:55 - 1:59Indeed, a great deal of civil rights
struggle over the last centuries -
1:59 - 2:04has been to punch a hole
through that wall and begin to feed -
2:04 - 2:09these human things through the wall
and have them become legal persons. -
2:09 - 2:12But alas, that hole has closed up.
-
2:13 - 2:15Now, on the other side are legal persons,
-
2:15 - 2:19but they've never only been
limited to human beings. -
2:19 - 2:23There are, for example, there are many
legal persons who are not even alive. -
2:23 - 2:25In the United States,
-
2:25 - 2:29we're aware of the fact
that corporations are legal persons. -
2:29 - 2:31In pre-independence India,
-
2:31 - 2:33a court held that a Hindu idol
was a legal person, -
2:33 - 2:35that a mosque was a legal person.
-
2:35 - 2:38In 2000, the Indian Supreme Court
-
2:38 - 2:41held that the holy books
of the Sikh religion was a legal person, -
2:41 - 2:43and in 2012, just recently,
-
2:43 - 2:47there was a treaty between
the indigenous peoples of New Zealand -
2:47 - 2:50and the crown, in which it was agreed
that a river was a legal person -
2:50 - 2:54who owned its own riverbed.
-
2:54 - 2:57Now, I read Peter Singer's book in 1980,
-
2:57 - 3:00when I had a full head
of lush, brown hair, -
3:00 - 3:03and indeed I was moved by it,
-
3:03 - 3:07because I had become a lawyer because
I wanted to speak for the voiceless, -
3:07 - 3:08defend the defenseless,
-
3:08 - 3:12and I'd never realized how voiceless
and defenseless the trillions, -
3:12 - 3:16billions of nonhuman animals are.
-
3:16 - 3:19And I began to work
as an animal protection lawyer. -
3:19 - 3:24And by 1985, I realized that I was trying
to accomplish something -
3:24 - 3:26that was literally impossible,
-
3:26 - 3:28the reason being that all of my clients,
-
3:28 - 3:32all the animals whose interests
I was trying to defend, -
3:32 - 3:34were legal things; they were invisible.
-
3:34 - 3:36It was not going to work, so I decided
-
3:36 - 3:40that the only thing that was going to work
was they had, at least some of them, -
3:40 - 3:44had to also be moved through a hole
that we could open up again in that wall -
3:44 - 3:47and begin feeding the appropriate
nonhuman animals through that hole -
3:47 - 3:51onto the other side
of being legal persons. -
3:51 - 3:56Now, at that time, there was
very little known about or spoken about -
3:56 - 3:59truly animal rights,
-
3:59 - 4:03about the idea of having legal personhood
or legal rights for a nonhuman animal, -
4:03 - 4:06and I knew it was going
to take a long time. -
4:06 - 4:09And so, in 1985, I figured that it
would take about 30 years -
4:09 - 4:13before we'd be able to even begin
a strategic litigation, -
4:13 - 4:19long-term campaign, in order to be able
to punch another hole through that wall. -
4:19 - 4:25It turned out that I was pessimistic,
that it only took 28. -
4:27 - 4:33So what we had to do in order
to begin was not only -
4:33 - 4:38to write law review articles
and teach classes, write books, -
4:38 - 4:41but we had to then begin
to get down to the nuts and bolts -
4:41 - 4:43of how you litigate that kind of case.
-
4:43 - 4:47So one of the first things we needed to do
was figure out what a cause of action was, -
4:47 - 4:48a legal cause of action.
-
4:48 - 4:51And a legal cause of action
is a vehicle that lawyers use -
4:51 - 4:57to put their arguments in front of courts.
-
4:57 - 5:00It turns out there's
a very interesting case -
5:00 - 5:04that had occurred almost 250 years ago
in London called Somerset vs. Stewart, -
5:04 - 5:07whereby a black slave
had used the legal system -
5:07 - 5:10and had moved from a legal thing
to a legal person. -
5:10 - 5:14I was so interested in it that I
eventually wrote an entire book about it. -
5:14 - 5:20James Somerset was an eight-year-old boy
when he was kidnapped from West Africa. -
5:20 - 5:23He survived the Middle Passage,
-
5:23 - 5:28and he was sold to a Scottish businessman
named Charles Stewart in Virginia. -
5:28 - 5:32Now, 20 years later, Stewart
brought James Somerset to London, -
5:32 - 5:36and after he got there, James decided
he was going to escape. -
5:36 - 5:40And so one of the first things he did
was to get himself baptized, -
5:40 - 5:42because he wanted to get
a set of godparents, -
5:42 - 5:44because to an 18th-century slave,
-
5:44 - 5:47they knew that one of the major
responsibilities of godfathers -
5:47 - 5:49was to help you escape.
-
5:49 - 5:53And so in the fall of 1771,
-
5:53 - 5:56James Somerset had a confrontation
with Charles Stewart. -
5:56 - 6:00We don't know exactly what happened,
but then James dropped out of sight. -
6:00 - 6:03An enraged Charles Stewart
then hired slave catchers -
6:03 - 6:06to canvass the city of London,
-
6:06 - 6:08find him, bring him
not back to Charles Stewart, -
6:08 - 6:14but to a ship, the Ann and Mary,
that was floating in London Harbour, -
6:14 - 6:16and he was chained to the deck,
-
6:16 - 6:18and the ship was to set sail for Jamaica
-
6:18 - 6:21where James was to be sold
in the slave markets -
6:21 - 6:24and be doomed to the three to five
years of life that a slave had -
6:24 - 6:27harvesting sugar cane in Jamaica.
-
6:27 - 6:30Well now James' godparents
swung into action. -
6:30 - 6:33They approached the most powerful judge,
-
6:33 - 6:37Lord Mansfield, who was chief judge
of the court of King's Bench, -
6:37 - 6:40and they demanded that he issue
a common law writ of habeus corpus -
6:40 - 6:42on behalf of James Somerset.
-
6:42 - 6:46Now, the common law is the kind of law
that English-speaking judges can make -
6:46 - 6:50when they're not cabined in
by statutes or constitutions, -
6:50 - 6:53and a writ of habeus corpus
is called the Great Writ, -
6:53 - 6:55capital G, capital W,
-
6:55 - 6:59and it's meant to protect any of us
who are detained against our will. -
6:59 - 7:01A writ of habeus corpus is issued.
-
7:01 - 7:04The detainer is required
to bring the detainee in -
7:04 - 7:10and give a legally sufficient reason
for depriving him of his bodily liberty. -
7:10 - 7:15Well, Lord Mansfield had to make
a decision right off the bat, -
7:15 - 7:17because if James Somerset
was a legal thing, -
7:17 - 7:20he was not eligible
for a writ of habeus corpus, -
7:20 - 7:22only if he could be a legal person.
-
7:22 - 7:25So Lord Mansfield decided
that he would assume, -
7:25 - 7:30without deciding, that James Somerset
was indeed a legal person, -
7:30 - 7:33and he issued the writ of habeus corpus,
and James's body was brought in -
7:33 - 7:34by the captain of the ship.
-
7:34 - 7:37There were a series of hearings
over the next six months. -
7:37 - 7:43On June 22, 1772, Lord Mansfield
said that slavery was so odious, -
7:43 - 7:45and he used the word "odious,"
-
7:45 - 7:49that the common law would not support it,
and he ordered James free. -
7:49 - 7:52At that moment, James Somerset
underwent a legal transubstantiation. -
7:53 - 7:55The free man who walked
out of the courtroom -
7:55 - 7:57looked exactly like the slave
who had walked in, -
7:57 - 8:02but as far as the law was concerned,
they had nothing whatsoever in common. -
8:03 - 8:06The next thing we did is that
the Nonhuman Rights Project, -
8:06 - 8:09which I founded, then began to look at
what kind of values and principles -
8:09 - 8:12do we want to put before the judges?
-
8:12 - 8:16What values and principles
did they imbibe with their mother's milk, -
8:16 - 8:19were they taught in law school,
do they use every day, -
8:19 - 8:23do they believe with all their hearts --
and we chose liberty and equality. -
8:23 - 8:26Now, liberty right is the kind of right
to which you're entitled -
8:26 - 8:28because of how you're put together,
-
8:28 - 8:33and a fundamental liberty right
protects a fundamental interest. -
8:33 - 8:37And the supreme interest in the common law
-
8:37 - 8:41are the rights to autonomy
and self-determination. -
8:42 - 8:46So they are so powerful that
in a common law country, -
8:46 - 8:50if you go to a hospital and you refuse
life-saving medical treatment, -
8:50 - 8:53a judge will not order it forced upon you,
-
8:53 - 8:57because they will respect
your self-determination and your autonomy. -
8:57 - 9:01Now, an equality right is the kind
of right to which you're entitled -
9:01 - 9:04because you resemble someone else
in a relevant way, -
9:04 - 9:06and there's the rub, relevant way.
-
9:06 - 9:09So if you are that, then because
they have the right, you're like them, -
9:09 - 9:12you're entitled to the right.
-
9:12 - 9:14Now, courts and legislatures
draw lines all the time. -
9:15 - 9:17Some are included, some are excluded.
-
9:17 - 9:23But you have to,
at the bare minimum you must -- -
9:23 - 9:28that line has to be a reasonable means
to a legitimate end. -
9:28 - 9:30The Nonhuman Rights Project
argues that drawing a line -
9:30 - 9:34in order to enslave an autonomous
and self-determining being -
9:34 - 9:36like you're seeing behind me,
-
9:36 - 9:39that that's a violation of equality.
-
9:39 - 9:42We then searched through 80 jurisdictions,
-
9:42 - 9:44it took us seven years,
to find the jurisdiction -
9:44 - 9:46where we wanted to begin
filing our first suit. -
9:46 - 9:48We chose the state of New York.
-
9:48 - 9:50Then we decided upon
who our plaintiffs are going to be. -
9:50 - 9:52We decided upon chimpanzees,
-
9:52 - 9:55not just because Jane Goodall
was on our board of directors, -
9:55 - 9:59but because they, Jane and others,
-
9:59 - 10:02have studied chimpanzees
intensively for decades. -
10:02 - 10:05We know the extraordinary
cognitive capabilities that they have, -
10:05 - 10:08and they also resemble the kind
that human beings have. -
10:08 - 10:13And so we chose chimpanzees,
and we began to then canvass the world -
10:13 - 10:16to find the experts
in chimpanzee cognition. -
10:16 - 10:21We found them in Japan, Sweden, Germany,
Scotland, England and the United States, -
10:21 - 10:24and amongst them, they wrote
100 pages of affidavits -
10:24 - 10:26in which they set out more than 40 ways
-
10:26 - 10:29in which their complex
cognitive capability, -
10:29 - 10:31either individually or together,
-
10:31 - 10:34all added up to autonomy
and self-determination. -
10:35 - 10:39Now, these included, for example,
that they were conscious. -
10:39 - 10:41But they're also conscious
that they're conscious. -
10:41 - 10:44They know they have a mind.
They know that others have minds. -
10:44 - 10:47They know they're individuals,
and that they can live. -
10:47 - 10:50They understand that they lived yesterday
and they will live tomorrow. -
10:50 - 10:53They engage in mental time travel.
They remember what happened yesterday. -
10:53 - 10:55They can anticipate tomorrow,
-
10:55 - 11:00which is why it's so terrible to imprison
a chimpanzee, especially alone. -
11:00 - 11:02It's the thing that we do
to our worst criminals, -
11:02 - 11:07and we do that to chimpanzees
without even thinking about it. -
11:08 - 11:10They have some kind of moral capacity.
-
11:10 - 11:13When they play economic games
with human beings, -
11:13 - 11:17they'll spontaneously make fair offers,
even when they're not required to do so. -
11:17 - 11:19They are numerate.
They understand numbers. -
11:19 - 11:21They can do some simple math.
-
11:21 - 11:25They can engage in language --
or to stay out of the language wars, -
11:25 - 11:28they're involved in intentional
and referential communication -
11:28 - 11:31in which they pay attention
to the attitudes of those -
11:31 - 11:32with whom they are speaking.
-
11:32 - 11:34They have culture.
-
11:34 - 11:37They have a material culture,
a social culture. -
11:37 - 11:39They have a symbolic culture.
-
11:39 - 11:43Scientists in the Taï Forests
in the Ivory Coast -
11:43 - 11:46found chimpanzees who were using
these rocks to smash open -
11:46 - 11:49the incredibly hard hulls of nuts.
-
11:49 - 11:51It takes a long time
to learn how to do that, -
11:51 - 11:54and they excavated the area
and they found -
11:54 - 11:56that this material culture,
this way of doing it, -
11:56 - 12:00these rocks, had passed down
for at least 4,300 years -
12:00 - 12:05through 225 chimpanzee generations.
-
12:05 - 12:07So now we needed to find our chimpanzee.
-
12:07 - 12:10Our chimpanzee,
-
12:10 - 12:13first we found two of them
in the state of New York. -
12:13 - 12:16Both of them would die before
we could even get our suits filed. -
12:16 - 12:18Then we found Tommy.
-
12:18 - 12:21Tommy is a chimpanzee.
You see him behind me. -
12:21 - 12:24Tommy was a chimpanzee.
We found him in that cage. -
12:24 - 12:27We found him in a small room
that was filled with cages -
12:27 - 12:33in a larger warehouse structure on a used
trailer lot in central New York. -
12:33 - 12:35We found Kiko, who is partially deaf.
-
12:35 - 12:40Kiko was in the back of a cement
storefront in western Massachusetts. -
12:40 - 12:42And we found Hercules and Leo.
-
12:42 - 12:44They're two young male chimpanzees
-
12:44 - 12:47who are being used for biomedical,
anatomical research at Stony Brook. -
12:47 - 12:49We found them.
-
12:49 - 12:51And so on the last week of December 2013,
-
12:51 - 12:55the Nonhuman Rights Project filed three
suits all across the state of New York -
12:55 - 12:59using the same common law
writ of habeus corpus argument -
12:59 - 13:02that had been used with James Somerset,
-
13:02 - 13:07and we demanded that the judges issue
these common law writs of habeus corpus. -
13:07 - 13:09We wanted the chimpanzees out,
-
13:09 - 13:12and we wanted them brought
to Save the Chimps, -
13:12 - 13:15a tremendous chimpanzee
sanctuary in South Florida -
13:15 - 13:21which involves an artificial lake
with 12 or 13 islands -- -
13:21 - 13:23there are two or three acres
where two dozen chimpanzees live -
13:23 - 13:25on each of them.
-
13:25 - 13:28And these chimpanzees would then live
the life of a chimpanzee, -
13:28 - 13:32with other chimpanzees in an environment
that was as close to Africa as possible. -
13:32 - 13:36Now, all these cases are still going on.
-
13:37 - 13:40We have not yet run into
our Lord Mansfield. -
13:41 - 13:42We shall. We shall.
-
13:42 - 13:46This is a long-term strategic
litigation campaign. We shall. -
13:46 - 13:48And to quote Winston Churchill,
-
13:48 - 13:52the way we view our cases
is that they're not the end, -
13:52 - 13:54they're not even the beginning of the end,
-
13:54 - 13:58but they are perhaps
the end of the beginning. -
13:59 - 14:00Thank you.
-
14:00 - 14:04(Applause)
- Title:
- Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights
- Speaker:
- Steven Wise
- Description:
-
Chimpanzees are people too, you know. Ok, not exactly. But lawyer Steven Wise has spent the last 30 years working to change these animals' status from "things" to "persons." It's not a matter of legal semantics; as he describes in this fascinating talk, recognizing that animals like chimps have extraordinary cognitive capabilities and rethinking the way we treat them — legally — is no less than a moral duty.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 14:17
Krystian Aparta edited English subtitles for Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights | ||
Morton Bast edited English subtitles for Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights | ||
Morton Bast approved English subtitles for Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights | ||
Morton Bast edited English subtitles for Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights | ||
Morton Bast edited English subtitles for Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights | ||
Morton Bast edited English subtitles for Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights | ||
Madeleine Aronson edited English subtitles for Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights | ||
Madeleine Aronson edited English subtitles for Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights |