Return to Video

Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights

  • 0:01 - 0:04
    I'd like to have you look at this pencil.
  • 0:04 - 0:06
    It's a thing. It's a legal thing.
  • 0:06 - 0:09
    And so are books you might have
    or the cars that you own.
  • 0:09 - 0:12
    They're all legal things.
  • 0:12 - 0:16
    The great apes that you'll see behind me,
  • 0:16 - 0:20
    they too are legal things.
  • 0:20 - 0:24
    Now, I can do that to a legal thing.
  • 0:24 - 0:27
    I can do whatever I want
    to my book or my car.
  • 0:27 - 0:30
    These great apes, you'll see.
  • 0:30 - 0:33
    The photographs are taken by a man
    named James Mollison
  • 0:33 - 0:36
    who wrote a book called
    "James & Other Apes."
  • 0:36 - 0:39
    And he tells in his book
    how every single one them,
  • 0:39 - 0:42
    almost every one of them, is an orphan
  • 0:42 - 0:46
    who saw his mother and father
    die before his eyes.
  • 0:46 - 0:48
    They're legal things.
  • 0:48 - 0:50
    So for centuries, there's been
    a great legal wall
  • 0:50 - 0:54
    that separates legal things
    from legal persons.
  • 0:54 - 0:58
    On one hand, legal things
    are invisible to judges.
  • 0:58 - 1:00
    They don't count in law.
  • 1:00 - 1:01
    They don't have any legal rights.
  • 1:01 - 1:04
    They don't have
    the capacity for legal rights.
  • 1:04 - 1:06
    They are the slaves.
  • 1:06 - 1:08
    On the other side of that legal wall
    are the legal persons.
  • 1:08 - 1:12
    Legal persons are very visible to judges.
  • 1:12 - 1:13
    They count in law.
  • 1:13 - 1:15
    They may have many rights.
  • 1:15 - 1:18
    They have the capacity
    for an infinite number of rights.
  • 1:18 - 1:21
    And they're the masters.
  • 1:21 - 1:24
    Right now, all non-human animals
  • 1:24 - 1:26
    are legal things.
  • 1:26 - 1:29
    All human beings are legal persons.
  • 1:29 - 1:31
    But being human and being a legal person
  • 1:31 - 1:37
    has never been, and is not today,
    synonymous with a legal person.
  • 1:37 - 1:40
    Humans and legal persons
    are not synonymous.
  • 1:40 - 1:43
    On the one side,
  • 1:43 - 1:47
    there have been many human beings
    over the centuries
  • 1:47 - 1:49
    who have been legal things.
  • 1:49 - 1:51
    Slaves were legal things.
  • 1:51 - 1:53
    Women, children
  • 1:53 - 1:55
    were sometimes legal things.
  • 1:55 - 1:59
    Indeed, a great deal of civil rights
    struggle over the last centuries
  • 1:59 - 2:02
    has been to punch a hole
    through that wall
  • 2:02 - 2:03
    and begin to feed
  • 2:03 - 2:09
    these human things through the wall
    and have them become legal persons.
  • 2:09 - 2:12
    Alas, that hole has closed up.
  • 2:12 - 2:15
    Now, on the other side are legal persons,
  • 2:15 - 2:19
    but they've never only been
    limited to human beings.
  • 2:19 - 2:23
    There are, for example, there are many
    legal persons who are not even alive.
  • 2:23 - 2:26
    In the United States, we're aware
    of the fact that corporations
  • 2:26 - 2:28
    are legal persons.
  • 2:28 - 2:31
    In pre-independence India,
  • 2:31 - 2:33
    a court held that a Hindu idol
    was a legal person,
  • 2:33 - 2:35
    that a mosque was a legal person.
  • 2:35 - 2:37
    In 2000, the Indian Supreme Court
  • 2:37 - 2:41
    held that the holy books
    of the Sikh religion was a legal person,
  • 2:41 - 2:43
    and in 2012, just recently,
  • 2:43 - 2:47
    there was a treaty between
    the indigenous peoples of New Zealand
  • 2:47 - 2:50
    and the crown, in which it was agreed
    that a river was a legal person
  • 2:50 - 2:54
    who owned its own riverbed.
  • 2:54 - 2:57
    Now, I read Peter Singer's book in 1980,
  • 2:57 - 3:00
    when I had a full head
    of lush, brown hair,
  • 3:00 - 3:03
    and indeed I was moved by it,
  • 3:03 - 3:06
    because I had become a lawyer because
    I wanted to speak for the voiceless,
  • 3:06 - 3:08
    defend the defenseless,
  • 3:08 - 3:12
    and I'd never realized how voiceless
    and defenseless the trillions,
  • 3:12 - 3:16
    billions of non-human animals are.
  • 3:16 - 3:19
    And I began to work
    as an animal protection lawyer.
  • 3:19 - 3:24
    And by 1985, I realized that I
    was trying to accomplish something
  • 3:24 - 3:26
    that was literally impossible,
  • 3:26 - 3:28
    the reason being that all of my clients,
  • 3:28 - 3:32
    all the animals whose interests
    I was trying to defend,
  • 3:32 - 3:34
    were legal things. They were invisible.
  • 3:34 - 3:36
    It was not going to work, so I decided
  • 3:36 - 3:38
    that the only thing that was going to work
  • 3:38 - 3:40
    was they had, at least some of them,
  • 3:40 - 3:44
    had to also be moved through a hole
    that we could open up again in that wall
  • 3:44 - 3:47
    and begin feeding the appropriate
    non-human animals through that hole
  • 3:47 - 3:52
    onto the other side
    of being legal persons.
  • 3:52 - 3:56
    Now, at that time, there was
    very little known about or spoken about
  • 3:56 - 3:59
    about truly animal rights,
  • 3:59 - 4:03
    about the idea of having a legal person
    or a legal rights for a non-human animal,
  • 4:03 - 4:05
    and I knew it was going to take a long time.
  • 4:05 - 4:09
    And so, in 1985, I figured that it
    would take about 30 years
  • 4:09 - 4:13
    before we'd be able to even begin
    a strategic litigation,
  • 4:13 - 4:19
    long-term campaign, in order to be able
    to punch another hole through that wall.
  • 4:19 - 4:23
    It turned out that I was pessimistic,
  • 4:23 - 4:26
    that it only took 28.
  • 4:26 - 4:33
    So what we had to do in order
    to begin was not only
  • 4:33 - 4:39
    to write law review articles
    and teach classes, write books,
  • 4:39 - 4:41
    but we had to then begin
    to get down to the nuts and bolts
  • 4:41 - 4:43
    of how you litigate that kind of case.
  • 4:43 - 4:47
    So one of the first things we needed to do
    was figure out what a cause of action was,
  • 4:47 - 4:48
    a legal cause of action.
  • 4:48 - 4:51
    And a legal cause of action
    is a vehicle that lawyers use
  • 4:51 - 4:57
    to put their arguments in front of courts.
  • 4:57 - 5:00
    It turns out there's
    a very interesting case
  • 5:00 - 5:02
    that had been heard
    almost 250 years ago in London
  • 5:02 - 5:04
    called Somerset v Stewart,
  • 5:04 - 5:07
    whereby a black slave
    had used the legal system
  • 5:07 - 5:10
    and had moved from a legal thing
    to a legal person.
  • 5:10 - 5:14
    I was so interested in it that I
    eventually wrote an entire book about it.
  • 5:14 - 5:20
    James Somerset was an eight-year old boy
    when he was kidnapped from West Africa.
  • 5:20 - 5:22
    He survived the Middle Passage,
  • 5:22 - 5:25
    and he was sold to a Scottish businessman
  • 5:25 - 5:28
    named Charles Stewart in Virginia.
  • 5:28 - 5:32
    Now, 20 years later, Stewart
    brought James Somerset to London,
  • 5:32 - 5:36
    and after he got there, James decided
    he was going to escape.
  • 5:36 - 5:40
    And so one of the first things he did
    was to get himself baptized,
  • 5:40 - 5:42
    because he wanted to get
    a set of godparents,
  • 5:42 - 5:44
    because to an 18th-century slave,
  • 5:44 - 5:47
    they knew that one of the major
    responsibilities of godfathers
  • 5:47 - 5:49
    was to help you escape.
  • 5:49 - 5:52
    And so in the fall of 1771,
  • 5:52 - 5:55
    James Somerset had a confrontation
    with Charles Stewart.
  • 5:55 - 6:00
    We don't know exactly what happened,
    but then James dropped out of sight.
  • 6:00 - 6:03
    An enraged Charles Stewart
    then hired slave catchers
  • 6:03 - 6:05
    to canvas the city of London,
  • 6:05 - 6:08
    find him, bring him
    not back to Charles Stewart,
  • 6:08 - 6:10
    but to a ship, the Anna Marie,
  • 6:10 - 6:14
    that was floating in London Harbor,
  • 6:14 - 6:16
    and he was chained to the deck,
  • 6:16 - 6:18
    and the ship was to set sail for Jamaica
  • 6:18 - 6:21
    where James was to be sold
    in the slave markets
  • 6:21 - 6:24
    and be doomed to the three-to-five years
    of life that a slave had
  • 6:24 - 6:27
    harvesting sugar cane in Jamaica.
  • 6:27 - 6:30
    Well now, James's godparents
    swung into action.
  • 6:30 - 6:33
    They approached the most powerful judge,
  • 6:33 - 6:37
    Lord Mansfield, who was Chief Judge
    of the Court of King's Bench,
  • 6:37 - 6:40
    and they demanded that he issue
    a common law write of habeus corpus
  • 6:40 - 6:42
    on behalf of James Somerset.
  • 6:42 - 6:46
    Now, the common law is the kind of law
    that English-speaking judges can make
  • 6:46 - 6:50
    when they're not cabinned in
    by statues or constitutions,
  • 6:50 - 6:53
    and a writ of habeus corpus
    is called the Great Writ,
  • 6:53 - 6:55
    capital G, capital W,
  • 6:55 - 6:59
    and it's meant to protect any of us
    who are detained against our will.
  • 6:59 - 7:01
    A writ of habeus corpus is issued.
  • 7:01 - 7:04
    The detainer is required
    to bring the detainee in
  • 7:04 - 7:10
    and give a legally sufficient reason
    for depriving him of his bodily liberty.
  • 7:10 - 7:14
    Well, Lord Mansfield has to make
    a decision right off the bat,
  • 7:14 - 7:17
    because if James Somerset
    was a legal thing,
  • 7:17 - 7:20
    he was not eligible
    for a writ of habeus corpus,
  • 7:20 - 7:22
    only if he could be a legal person.
  • 7:22 - 7:25
    So Lord Mansfield decided
    that he would assume,
  • 7:25 - 7:29
    without deciding, that James Somerset
    was indeed a legal person,
  • 7:29 - 7:33
    and he issued the writ of habeus corpus,
    and James's body was broad in
  • 7:33 - 7:35
    by the captain of the ship.
  • 7:35 - 7:37
    There were a series of hearings
    over the next six months.
  • 7:37 - 7:41
    On June 22, 1772, Lord Mansfield
  • 7:41 - 7:45
    said that slavery was so odious,
    and he used the word "odious,"
  • 7:45 - 7:49
    that the common law would not support it,
    and he ordered James free.
  • 7:49 - 7:53
    At that moment, James Somerset
    underwent a legal transubstantiation.
  • 7:53 - 7:55
    The free man who walked
    out of the courtroom
  • 7:55 - 7:57
    looked exactly like the salve
    who had walked in,
  • 7:57 - 7:59
    but as far as the law was concerned,
  • 7:59 - 8:02
    they had nothing whatsoever in common.
  • 8:02 - 8:05
    The next thing we did is that
    the Nonhuman Rights Project,
  • 8:05 - 8:09
    which we founded, then began to look at
    what kind of values and principles
  • 8:09 - 8:12
    do we want to put before the judges?
  • 8:12 - 8:16
    What values and principles
    did they imbibe with their mother's milk,
  • 8:16 - 8:19
    were they taught in law school,
    do they use every day,
  • 8:19 - 8:23
    do they believe with all their hearts?
    And we chose liberty and equality.
  • 8:23 - 8:25
    Now, liberty right is the kind of right
    to which you're entitled
  • 8:25 - 8:27
    because of how you're put together,
  • 8:27 - 8:33
    and a fundamental liberty right
    protects the fundamental interest.
  • 8:33 - 8:38
    And the supreme interest in the common law
    are the rights to autonomy
  • 8:38 - 8:42
    and self-determination.
  • 8:42 - 8:46
    So they are so powerful that
    in a common law country,
  • 8:46 - 8:50
    if you go to a hospital and you refuse
    life-saving medical treatment,
  • 8:50 - 8:54
    a judge will not order it forced upon you,
    because they will respect
  • 8:54 - 8:57
    your self-determination and your autonomy.
  • 8:57 - 9:00
    Now, an equality right is the kind
    of right to which you're entitled
  • 9:00 - 9:03
    because you resemble someone else
    in a relevant way,
  • 9:03 - 9:06
    and there's the rub, relevant way.
  • 9:06 - 9:09
    So if you are that, then because
    they have the right, you're like them,
  • 9:09 - 9:12
    you're entitled to the right.
  • 9:12 - 9:15
    Now, courts and legislatures
    draw lines all the time.
  • 9:15 - 9:17
    Some are included, some are excluded.
  • 9:17 - 9:23
    But you have to, at the bare minimum,
  • 9:23 - 9:28
    that line has to be a reasonable means
    to a legitimate end.
  • 9:28 - 9:31
    The Nonhuman Rights Project argues
    that drawing a line in order
  • 9:31 - 9:34
    to enslave an autonomous
    and self-determining being
  • 9:34 - 9:36
    like you're seeing behind me,
  • 9:36 - 9:39
    that that's a violation of equality.
  • 9:39 - 9:42
    We then searched through 80 jurisdictions,
  • 9:42 - 9:44
    it took us seven years,
    to find a jurisdiction
  • 9:44 - 9:46
    that we wanted to begin
    filing our first suit.
  • 9:46 - 9:48
    We chose the State of New York.
  • 9:48 - 9:50
    Then we decided upon
    who our plaintiffs are going to be.
  • 9:50 - 9:52
    We decided upon chimpanzees,
  • 9:52 - 9:55
    not just because Jane Goodall
    was on our board of directors,
  • 9:55 - 10:00
    but because they, Jane and others,
    have studied chimpanzees
  • 10:00 - 10:02
    intensively for decades.
  • 10:02 - 10:05
    We know the extraordinary
    cognitive capabilities that they have,
  • 10:05 - 10:08
    and they also resemble the kind
    that human beings have.
  • 10:08 - 10:13
    And so we chose chimpanzees,
    and we began to then canvas the world
  • 10:13 - 10:16
    to find the experts
    in chimpanzee cognition.
  • 10:16 - 10:21
    We found them in Japan, Sweden, Germany,
    Scotland, England, and the United States,
  • 10:21 - 10:24
    and amongst them, they wrote
    100 pages of affidavits
  • 10:24 - 10:26
    in which they set out more than 40 ways
  • 10:26 - 10:29
    in which their complex
    cognitive capability,
  • 10:29 - 10:31
    either individually or together,
  • 10:31 - 10:35
    all added up to autonomy
    and self-determination.
  • 10:35 - 10:39
    Now, these included, for example,
    that they were conscious.
  • 10:39 - 10:41
    But they're also conscious
    that they're conscious.
  • 10:41 - 10:43
    They know they have a mind.
    They know that others have a mind.
  • 10:43 - 10:46
    They know they're individuals,
    and that they can live.
  • 10:46 - 10:50
    They understand that they lived yesterday
    and they will live tomorrow.
  • 10:50 - 10:53
    They engage in mental time travel.
    They remember what happened yesterday.
  • 10:53 - 10:55
    They can anticipate tomorrow,
  • 10:55 - 10:59
    which is why it's so terrible
    to imprison a chimpanzee,
  • 10:59 - 11:02
    especially alone: it's the things
    that we do to our worst criminals,
  • 11:02 - 11:07
    and we do that to chimpanzees
    without even thinking about it.
  • 11:07 - 11:10
    They have some kind of moral capacity.
  • 11:10 - 11:13
    When they play economic games
    with human beings,
  • 11:13 - 11:17
    they'll spontaneously make fair offers,
    even when they're not required to do so.
  • 11:17 - 11:19
    They are numerate.
    They understand numbers.
  • 11:19 - 11:21
    They can do some simple math.
  • 11:21 - 11:25
    They can engage in language or,
    to stay out of the language wars,
  • 11:25 - 11:29
    they're involved in intentional
    and referential communication
  • 11:29 - 11:30
    in which they pay attention
    to the attitudes of those
  • 11:30 - 11:32
    with whom they are speaking.
  • 11:32 - 11:34
    They have culture.
  • 11:34 - 11:37
    They have a material culture,
    a social culture.
  • 11:37 - 11:39
    They have a symbolic culture.
  • 11:39 - 11:43
    Scientists in the Taï Forests
    in the Ivory Coast
  • 11:43 - 11:46
    found chimpanzees who were using
    these rocks to smash open
  • 11:46 - 11:49
    the incredibly hard hulls of nuts.
  • 11:49 - 11:51
    It takes a long time
    to learn how to do that,
  • 11:51 - 11:54
    and they excavated the area
    and they found
  • 11:54 - 11:56
    that this material culture,
    this way of doing it,
  • 11:56 - 12:00
    these rocks, had passed down
    for at least 4,300 years
  • 12:00 - 12:05
    through 225 chimpanzee generations.
  • 12:05 - 12:07
    So now we needed to find our chimpanzee.
  • 12:07 - 12:10
    Our chimpanzee,
  • 12:10 - 12:13
    first we found two of them
    in the State of New York.
  • 12:13 - 12:16
    Both of them would die before
    we could even get our suits filed.
  • 12:16 - 12:18
    Then we found Tommy.
  • 12:18 - 12:21
    Tommy is a chimpanzee.
    You see him behind me.
  • 12:21 - 12:24
    Tommy was a chimpanzee.
    We found him in that cage.
  • 12:24 - 12:27
    We found him in a small room
    that was filled with cages
  • 12:27 - 12:31
    in a larger warehouse structure
    on a used trailer lot
  • 12:31 - 12:33
    in central New York.
  • 12:33 - 12:35
    We found Kiko, who is partially deaf.
  • 12:35 - 12:40
    Kiko was in the back of a cement
    storefront in western Massachusetts.
  • 12:40 - 12:42
    And we found Hercules and Leo.
  • 12:42 - 12:45
    They're two young male chimpanzees
    being used for biomedical,
  • 12:45 - 12:47
    anatomical research at Stonybrook.
  • 12:47 - 12:49
    we found them.
  • 12:49 - 12:51
    And so on the last week of December, 2013,
  • 12:51 - 12:54
    the Nonhuman Rights Project
    filed three suits
  • 12:54 - 12:55
    all across the State of New York
  • 12:55 - 12:58
    using the same common law
    writ of habeus corpus argument
  • 12:58 - 13:02
    that had been used with James Somerset,
  • 13:02 - 13:04
    and we demanded that the judges issue
  • 13:04 - 13:07
    these common law writs of habeus corpus.
  • 13:07 - 13:09
    We wanted the chimpanzees out,
  • 13:09 - 13:12
    and we wanted them brought
    to Save the Chimps,
  • 13:12 - 13:15
    a tremendous chimpanzee
    sanctuary in South Florida
  • 13:15 - 13:21
    which involves an artificial lake
    with 12 or 13 islands.
  • 13:21 - 13:24
    There are two or three acres where
    two dozen chimpanzees live on each of them.
  • 13:24 - 13:27
    And these chimpanzees would then live
    the life of a chimpanzee,
  • 13:27 - 13:32
    with other chimpanzees in an environment
    that was as close to Africa as possible.
  • 13:32 - 13:36
    Now, all these cases are still going on.
  • 13:36 - 13:39
    We have not yet run into
    our Lord Mansfield.
  • 13:39 - 13:42
    We shall. We shall.
  • 13:42 - 13:46
    This is a long-term strategic
    litigation campaign. We shall.
  • 13:46 - 13:50
    And to quote Winston Churchill,
    the way we view our cases is that
  • 13:50 - 13:52
    they're not the end,
  • 13:52 - 13:54
    they're not even the beginning of the end,
  • 13:54 - 13:56
    but they are perhaps
  • 13:56 - 13:58
    the end of the beginning.
  • 13:58 - 14:00
    Thank you.
  • 14:00 - 14:04
    (Applause)
Title:
Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights
Speaker:
Steven Wise
Description:

more » « less
Video Language:
English
Team:
closed TED
Project:
TEDTalks
Duration:
14:17

English subtitles

Revisions Compare revisions