My Conversations with the Mystic - Shekhar Kapur with Sadhguru - 22 Nov webstream event

http://myconversationswiththemystic.com/shekharkapur

During this 22nd November live event, internationally acclaimed film maker Shekhar and Sadhguru took various questions asked by people all around the world. The questions ranged from the mundane to the mystical and sparked a dialogue between the two that inspired and ignited the live audience leading to the conclusion that this meeting between these two must and will happen again in the future.

Stay in touch with us at http://myconversationswiththemystic.com to find out about this and upcoming similar events.

On 22 November 2010, Shekhar Kapur and Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev met for a live webstreaming event to celebrate the launch of their joint venture 4 DVD series. These DVD's have Shekhar questioning Sadhguru about various topics such as Love, Education, the Guru and more.

These four DVD's are available for sale at: http://www.ishashoppe.com and http://www.saregama.com (also available as a digital download).

Find out more about Sadhguru and Isha Foundation at http://www.ishafoundation.org

Hi, I am Shekhar Kapur and welcome everybody,

wherever you are in the world; welcome. We are in Mumbai

and we are here to launch a set of DVDs with Sadhguru that

I interviewed Sadhguru, called My conversations with the Mystic.

I am a film director; you may well ask why a film director is sitting here.

I think that in the course of asking the right questions about cinema

and storytelling and the creation of stories, ultimately there is one story that

I always refer to is the my stories are always an attempt to take

to connect what is finite to the infinite because

otherwise you live in a kind of limbo of being finite with everything

that is measurable and then you look out at the sky and you say,

Well, nothing is measurable, and since time thats what man has done,

he has ultimately created stories as a survival kit of how he can handle that

which is infinite with his or her own life that seems finite.

So I think a step in the direction of searching for that connection or that bridge

between the two is quite natural with the filmmakers.

So thats where I lead into my conversations with this incredible man

called Sadhguru who I just happened to meet but then they say nothing really happens;

everything is coordinated by a series of karmas.

So it was my destiny and karma to meet Sadhguru a few years ago

in a place called Puerto Rico where we both at the same

same conference and I met this man that everybody was getting attracted to

and naturally I was, so I went in we were supposed to go somewhere,

and he offered to drive me there. I think if you ever meet Sadhguru

and if he offers to drive you somewhere, I would highly recommend that you decline

because it will be because there is only that in which you know

you trust your guru, okay? Yet when he is

(Sadhguru): This man is the safest driver.

Yes, of course you trust your guru, but when hes taken a corner

at about 85 kilometers or 85 miles an hour, you kind of taenn

you know, youre just at the crux of, Do I really trust him?

Like, Will I really survive this, and then you have to convince yourself,

This is Sadhguru, you know, he knows, you trust him, but be careful

be careful of his driving and thats how I met him and

that set off a great, great relationship and

Ive often been asked as I was today. Is Sadhguru your friend?

And I say, Yeah, hes probably one of my best friends,

But, is he your guru?I say, Yeah, but guru, friend, mystic, a man

that I turn to when I want to talk about those things that I know less about,

a man whos in whose presence I feel vulnerable but it's being

thats the strange thing Great relationship for me with Sadhguru

is about the fact that I feel completely vulnerable and completely

comfortable in that vulnerability. In fact theres no other relationship I have

where I can feel so comfortable with a great sense of being completely

vulnerable and I think thats probably because Sadh

but well talk more about that because some of these questions go that way

about what does it mean to be completely vulnerable and so vulnerable

that is the greatest power in the world is vulnerability.

we have four tapes here. The tapes are when we say,

Is Is Love a Chemical Hijack? I mean is it your hormones

that suddenly take you across and give you a great sense of love that we say,

Oh it's love, but its actually just hormones. And if its hormones

yes, it probably is - what lies beyond hormones? Can love exist beyond hormones?

Can relationships exist beyond hormones?

And you would be probably surprised because each tape goes

in from talking about hormones and love and then starts to get into

almost everything because everything is interconnected and it gets into

naturally into life and death and children and

theres a separate one on education, but that is also about love.

Why would it not be?

So we have, Is Love a Chemical Hijack, Guru - a Roadmap

where does a guru come into your life? What does a guru really lay out for you?

Why a guru? How do you find your guru? Do you need to find a guru?

Can your guru be sitting in the house next door without you realizing it?

Is it your destiny to meet your guru? But also in very practical way

when you search for a guru, why are you searching and

what are you searching for because thats fundamental.

All of us are not asking the right question and thats one of the things that

I learnt from Sadhguru is, Shekhar, youre not asking the right question.

Oh, is this right? Shekhar, youre not asking the right question,

Okay no Shekhar, youre not really

youre too scared to ask the right question,

and then I say, Yeah, Im not being vulnerable enough.

Anyway we will come to that.

The third one is called, A Miracle of Life which must be a miracle,

and I guess if life is miracle then death must be a miracle.

How can one not to be a miracle against the other?

So there is a lot of discussion on that DVD, and

Education and Child Blossoming. Is education as we see it now

an imposition or is it an encouragement. Where does education lie?

And if you go to Isha Foundation, youll find an amazing, an absolutely

amazing attitude towards education and the most amazing curious, wonderful,

joyful kids Ive ever seen in my life, but enough of me and my views

because we are really here to talk to Sadhguru and his views.

So please may I introduce to all of you all over the world wherever you are

and Im sorry I apologize, and we both apologize for the fact

our connections are not two-way right now, next time they will be,

and I will turn this over to Sadhguru and very happy to meet you,

very happy to be here bit embarrassed because I have to ask you

all these questions on behalf other people because these questions

reverberate with me. Would you like to say a few words to

the audience all over the world and then we can start with the questions?

(Sadhguru): Like you were saying, film making is about exploring

the relationship between the finite and the infinite,

my work is to transport people from the finite to the infinite, to create the necessary tools,

to build a necessary vehicle for them so that they can transport themselves

from the finite to the infinite. The whole spiritual process is just that.

Or in other words what Im saying is, whether it's filmmaking or

cooking or anything mundane that one can do, in all those aspects

if you look deep enough it's the same journey.

It is just that in one or in certain type of activity it may be more apparent,

but if you look deep enough whether you are gardening or cooking or

kicking a ball or making a film, essentially its the same thing

to move from finite to the infinite.

The very journey of a human being is just that;

whoever you are right now you want to be something more.

If that happens, you want to be something more.

It's an endless something more which is a longing for the infinite,

finding expression in installments.

So my work is just to help people to understand that going in installments is not going to get you to infinite.

Though the direction is right,

the vehicle that you are employing is too limited, it can't get you there.

There are other ways to make it. Everybody has the aspiration

but they dont have the means. So my essential work and my life is

to provide them the means for their fundamental aspiration of every human being.

(Shekar Kapoor): So I have to stop myself from just exploring because

every time you talk to me, Sadhguru, I have another question,

and then you talk to me and I have another question and I am sure like

(Sadhguru): It's time to transport yourself.

(Shekar Kapoor): Yes, transport transport because at so what youre saying is at one time

I have to go beyond telling stories of duality and just transform myself into singularity.

See, Im sorry I am not going to do this because it's about your questions today

it's not just about my questions,

but just one more question on this. That vehicle This question of

When I write a story it's always a conflict between two things,

whether it's good or evil, man/woman, destiny/fighting your destiny,

so I create a conflict to solve a conflict in telling a story

(Sadhguru): See, when you make a film or write a story for that matter,

what youre doing is, youre just taking a segment of life as you see it,

maybe slightly dramatized, but youre taking a segment of life.

In that segment of life there is no solution, there is only conflict

because every everything if you theres one way of looking at it is

just about everything on this planet or anywhere in the existence is conflict.

Right now, earth is revolving around the sun. Sun is holding it in some ways,

but earth is trying to go away. It has centrifugal force, going away, this is holding it. It's a conflict.

So like this if you look at it, a plant is trying to grow;

if you look at it theres a tremendous conflict in the earth.

So a worm is eaten by an insect, an insect is eaten by a bird, a bird is eaten

by an animal, an animal is eaten by something else, this is going on.

It is all a conflict if you look at it one way, or

another way of looking at it is it is just harmonious,

everything is eating itself.

The most beautiful story that comes out of the yogic lore is

one of the most beautiful stories that comes out of the yogic lore is

if you enter any temple, at the entrance you would see a kind of a demons face

with two hands sticking out of his mouth. This is the face of Keertimukha,

he is called. Keertimukha means a glorious face. This was

Hes referred to as a demon and Shiva had trouble with somebody.

So he created a demon and said, Go, deal with this guy,

but the moment he created this demon that man fell at his feet and

begged for mercy. Then he said, Okay, spare him.

Then the demon said, You created me to eat this man and Im hungry.

What am I supposed to do? So Shiva was in one of those moods,

he said, You eat yourself, and he ate himself up. By the time

Shiva looked at him he had eaten himself up completely except for his hands and his face, everything was eaten up.

Only the face was left. So Shiva looked at this and said,

You are the most glorious face. So you must be above all gods.

So every temple, before you enter, above the gods level

you will see a face, a demons face with hands sticking out

because that is the last part that hes eating up.

Someone who is able to consume himself is the ultimate glorious face.

So essentially life is just that. Either youre consumed by something else,

or if you have the necessary intelligence and awareness, you consume yourself.

If you consume yourself you become a glorious face.

If you let somebody else consume you, youre just

somebodys breakfast maybe. (Laughter)

Okay. All right. Its okay Sadhguru. Im going to stop myself from asking you

another question for myself and I may ask you some of the questions,

I am not sure where these questions have come from, but Im sure anybody

who is there will recognize the questions. His first question

many spiritual leaders are working towards creating a peaceful world

bringing down violence. What steps have you taken in that direction?

Do you think you can impact the leaders of the warring nations and bring

about peace using your spiritual teachings or methods?

(Sadhguru): See, there are conflicts which have been hanging upon the planet for decades for the same reasons.

Different types of conflicts have happened.

The spiritual leaders or spiritual process essentially focus on

focuses on bringing peacefulness and blissfulness to an individual human being.

So when I say an individual human being, it does not matter who he is,

whether he is a leader of a nation or a business leader or a

just a man on the street or whatever it is, it works for every human being.

So definitely spiritual process has to touch everybody, particularly people

who are in positions of responsibility and power

because they can make a huge difference for lots of people because they

When youre a leader When youre a leader of a nation or

even these days large businesses, every thought, every emotion, every action

that you generate is impacting millions of people.

Just the very thought that you generate is impacting people in

so many different ways.

When such a responsibility has been placed in your hands

it's extremely important the leaders of nations, large business corporations,

they must take these steps to ensure as to how they are within themselves,

what kind of beings are they. Some work has to be done upon themselves

because every thought and emotion that they generate is

impacting millions of people. When such a privilege has been given to you,

if you just think something is going to happen to million people, it's extremely important

that you conduct this privilege in a responsible manner, and

you can only conduct this responsibly if there is a spiritual process within you.

When I say a spiritual process, maybe not everybody understands what Im

you know, what it means. So one way of putting it is,

there is a certain sense of inclusiveness that youre not an exclusive entity,

you are an inclusive process and this inclusiveness if it does not arise and

you have the nec you have a certain level of power in your hands, then definitely

it will lead to various kinds of conflicts; theres no question about that.

So, we have worked with millions of people, we have worked in the prisons in

you know, it's mandatory now in all the central prisons in South India and

there are various other things we are doing to make this happen.

Definitely we have also tried to work with very major leaders; particularly

I have focused upon the business leaders because 100 years ago

if you looked at this world, military leadership was the most powerful leadership.

In the last 100 years it has evolved into a situation where democratically

elected leaders, political leaders, are the most powerful people,

but that is going to change. Thats already beginning to change

and it's going to change very rapidly in the next 10 to 15 years.

You will see in the future the economic leaders are going to be the most important people.

Seeing this, I have started working with

economic leaders individually on certain levels and we have definitely

made a difference in the way they make their decisions,

the way they conduct their businesses this is being done,

but this is being done very discreetly because it is not something

that needs to be handled in public.

(Shekar Kapoor): Sadhguru, just one thing we didnt talk about the Outreach programs of Isha.

Im not sure I will result come if theres a question thats fine

well be answering it now, but Id like I know, I mean people are aware

but Im not sure if everybody is aware that Isha is not a religious organization.

Isha is a spiritual organization but it's far more than that.

Its educational organization coming up with different ideas

but very innovative ideas on education yet conforming them to the standards

that every child has to meet to get on in life. But something thats really important to me,

it's its an outreach program on something like

reforestation of all of Tamil Nadu. It's a water outreach program but

before I say, Id like Sadhguru to talk a little bit about that

about the volunteer work, about of Isha and all the specific work that

Isha is doing to tackle some of the great problems that are facing education,

medical medicine and environment that Isha is taking on.

(Sadhguru): See, what I see is, right now in India,

India is sitting on a threshold of economic prosperity.

Now the question is will we sit on the threshold forever

or are we going to cross it?

Much economic boom is happening in the country

unlike various other countries particularly western nations, today

so much economic activity is happening, but what we need to realize is,

economic activity is happening at this level whatever percentages

were talking about, 8%, 9% is happening because a large mass of people

have been in such depths of poverty that now whatever little happens,

percentages are showing big, but the actual quality of life of the people,

of a large number, is still not in any great condition. So almost 65% of India

lives in the villages, and the life in the village has you cannot say

it has improved in any great sense. Yes, of course, now they have cell phones,

now they have bore wells, it has improved, you cannot say it is not improved either

but at the same time you must understand this that India is not a

India as people is not a helpless population. It's a hugely enterprising population.

I don't know, some people tell me this statistic, Im not 100% sure, they say

only 7% of Indians are employed; 93% are self-employed. This was in 2000;

maybe that percentage is little less now. Maybe 10% is employed,

90% is self-employed. Maybe hes just selling a small heap of vegetables

in street corner but hes an entrepreneur; he understands the market, he needs

he knows how he has to make his own propaganda by shouting a certain thing;

he knows where to place himself. He has a certain thought process

which I see is very, very unique; you dont see this anywhere else in the world.

They are such fabulous entrepreneurs. Every

Even the street kids are such wonderful entrepreneurs, you know.

That entrepreneurship is just there everywhere, but it is

not going where it should naturally go simply

because the agencies which should facilitate this process,

by building the necessary infrastructure, creating things around

which are necessary for them to progress like this; more than anything

there are any number of hurdles which dont allow a person to, you know,

be truly enterprising in this country unless you have a certain pull.

So one aspect of what were trying to do is one thing is nourishment and health is a serious, serious problem

In this effort to shift from subsistence farming to cash farming

When people were doing subsistence farming,

if you went into a village 25, 30 years ago they were in tatters,

there was no drinking water, there would be no electricity, there would be

not a single automobile in the whole village, thats how it used to be.

Today if you go theres electricity, theres drinking water,

everybody has cell phones, therere internet kiosks, you know,

internet connectivity has come to remote villages.

All these things are there but one thing thats happened is

at that time the individual human being a rural person means

he was a sturdy person. Today if you go and see,

60% of the male population has not even grown to its full size;

his skeletal system has not grown to full size.

The condition of the female population is even worse, you dont see them much,

but the male population you can clearly see, or in other words

we are producing a whole underdeveloped population.

If your body is not fully developed, even your brain will not develop

a substandard humanity youre producing and youre hoping

to take the country somewhere. Unless you attend to these things

it will be very, very difficult. This This is not a pessimistic approach to the nation

but all I am saying is when we have goals to fulfill,

when we are thinking of becoming a certain kind of economic power in the world,

it is very important the fundamentals are handled.

If you dont handle the fundamentals, you dont have the legs

but you want to go up the mountain, it's not going to work.

So in this context we started the Action for Rural Rejuvenation

fundamentally on one level to rejuvenate the rural spirit.

So we started off with yoga and sports which became a huge, phenomenal movement.

It's been one of the most incredible things to watch

because when we did this annual you know like village

we call this Gramotsavam where all the village teams come and play

some 814 teams 814 teams from across Tamil Nadu come and participate,

of all kinds of age groups. Women over 70 years of age coming and

playing ball, in public, in front of every in competitive levels. (Laughs)

Such a thing has never happened and when this festival happened,

there were over 500,000 people attending and the governor of Tamil Nadu was there,

he looked at this and said, Sadhguru, this happened only when Mahatma came.

(Shekar Kapoor): Wow!

(Sadhguru): Because we are not paying for transportation, we are not paying for food;

everybody is spending their own money. On bicycles, bullock carts, tractors,

all kinds of transport, they are just coming by themselves.

Probably a nonreligious, nonpolitical movement has never gathered

this kind of momentum as it has right now, this whole process.

So as a part of that there are many children who are first time, school-going children,

that is the first generation their parents have never been to school.

So fundamentally aimed at them we started these

Isha Vidhya schools which are going on wonderfully well, right now.

And the ecological project started because in 1998 some

UN agencies came and made a prediction that by 2025, 60% of Tamil Nadu

will become a desert. I dont like any kind of predictions because

when you make a prediction youre only taking cold facts into account.

You are never considering what is beating in the human heart.

The human aspirations are ignored and youre making predictions.

So I didnt like this prediction and I didnt believe it either.

So I just drove around Tamil Nadu just to see if this is true and

I found out it's not true. I realized that its not going to go till 2025,

its going to happen must faster. So I thought what is thing to do.

I know we can complain, we can protest, we can write letters to the government.

For whatever reasons maybe they lack the organization,

maybe they dont have the people, maybe they dont have the resources,

whatever it is for whatever reason administrations are not able to fulfill this,

rather than protesting about it I thought it's best we give them a hand.

After all thiss a democracy, that means you are also a participant in the government in some way.

You also have a stake in the government, it's not imposed upon you, it is your choice.

Maybe you are making a lousy choice but its your choice. (Laughter)

(Shekar Kapoor): Okay. All right. Yeah.

(Sadhguru): It's our choice we are it's the governments that we have is essentially our choice.

we have made the choice, we better support them for five years

rather than pulling them down all the time.

So we just made a I just looked at it, what is it that we can do?

Then I realized Tamil Nadu had only 16.5% green cover.

Then the national aspiration is 33%. So I made a simple, barefoot calculation.

If we plant like 114 million trees in the next six to eight years time,

in 15 years time we will have 33% green cover. So I just told the meditators,

We should just plant 114 million trees.

(Shekar Kapoor): Hundred and fourteen million?

(Sadhguru): Yeah. They said, Sadhguru, do you know what that number is?

(Shekar Kapoor): Hmm, yeah.

(Sadhguru): They know Im poor on arithmetic. So I said, I know what the number is.

They said, It's impossible! Who can plant 114 million trees?

Then I asked them a simple question, What is Tamil Nadu population?

They said, Sixty-two million. I said, If all of us plant one tree today,

take care of it for two years and plant one more, we got the number.

What's the difficulty? Can't you plant one tree? Even a beggar on the street

can plant one tree. He will have an office growing for himself.

(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah.

(Sadhguru): So we started this movement and it took off

I spent almost six years planting trees in peoples heads;

that's the most different terrain. Once thats been done; now it's

only replanting which is happening very easily.

So I think we have planted close to 14 million trees out of which about

(Shekar Kapoor): Oh really!

(Sadhguru): Yeah. About 10 million trees or little over 10 millions trees have survived.

The official figures say that the green cover in Tamil Nadu has gone up

by 5.2% in five-and-half, six years time of work and

the Google maps show much more than that. So this is a tribute to the people because the spirit

with which they have done all this is fantastic. Our work has been

to raise the nurseries, organize and inspire them but essentially

on the ground it is them who are doing it and its them

who are taking care of the trees. So these are peoples movements

that we are launching so that without the participation of the people

you cannot change anything here and India is a kind of nation

where you cannot change this country just by policy, you need a movement

(Shekapr Kapoor): Yeah.

(Sadhguru): otherwise nothing will change in this country.

(Shekar Kapoor): Right. Okay Sadhguru, Rajasthan next. Yeah? Okay, all right.

(Sadhguru): Do I resemble a camel or something? (Laughter)

So we got a question coming - question for both speakers.

How visual and interactive media like films and internet is impacting

the thought process of human beings and their emotions?

Do you think we (can?) use it as a medium to cultivate awareness

amongst the masses? I gonna hand this to you first, except to say

one thing about the word masses. When we used to make films

when I used to make films in India there was all this questionnaires

Who are the masses? Because if you ask anybody, Who are you?

Theyll say, Well the mass is always somebody else.

And so Ive never been able to find out who the masses are and

the whole idea of the masses assumes that you are not the masses.

(Sadhguru): I think only the Left parties know whore the masses.

(Shekar Kapoor): All these Left parties except the ones who run the left parties are not the masses.

They know who they are, thats okay. But Sadhguru, Ill let you

then Ill talk about it, about both the dangers and the idea, I mean,

interactive media like films and internet specially is a brilliantly democratic medium.

I wish that when I started filmmaking I had the internet because

my desire to make films was not just to make films but to express myself, and

not only express myself sitting at home but express myself in a way that

I could reach people and what better way for me to be able to express

myself through little film, a five minute film, through my Twitter, through my blog,

put on a film that I shoot, put it on my blog. The time now when somebody

can spend a hundred dollars, make a film, put it on the internet, put it on you tube

and get 50 million heads, I mean it's a dream, but people are doing that.

So you could start what you say in India, start a movement.

Sometimes I wonder how wonderful it would have been if Gandhi,

Mahatma Gandhi, had mobile phones to talk on or the internet, yeah and

then I wonder, I said, yeah, but on the other end what if Hitler had the internet,

you know, it's a double-head sword but Ill let you take that question.

(Sadhguru): I have a surprise for you.

We have just launched an Online Inner Engineering Program, a seven day,

ten-hour session which is which is having such a tremendous impact on people.

We are yet to market it in a big way. The very intention of this is,

as theyre asking the question

See for the first time, for the very first time in the history of this planet

you can speak to the whole world, if you have something valuable to say and

thats not a simple thing; thats not a simple thing.

As you said Mahatma Gandhi, I want you to look back further like

a Gautam Buddha or a Krishna when they wanted to communicate something

they travelled from village to village by foot trying to transmit this, and

today you can sit here and talk to the whole world.

If what youre talking makes sense to people, you are able to talk

to the whole world just sitting in this place and thats not a simple thing,

thats a tremendous thing.

So to raise human consciousness should we use it?

For sure we should, theres no question about it.

(Shekar Kapoor): I agree; I am just Im a great believer in the internet;

Im a great believer that it is

(Sadhguru); Im not a believer in the internet,

Im a believer in Everybody should know this.

(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah. No, okay Im a believer in, yeah, in the medium and

Im a believer that finally because the internet brings people like

we are doing right now, voices from all over the word together.

A large part of the politics, I feel, I mean its political answer

Im giving, a large part of the politics of this world survive on keeping people

in the jaws of ignorance and the access to the internet also takes people away,

gives them a chance to come out and give them information and knowledge,

their ability to communicate with the rest of the world and open their minds

and discuss with the rest of the world and open themselves out to a world wisdom if you like

The fear, of course, is it could be world wisdom of Hitler, you don't know,

but at least it allows people to come out of ignorance of

and then even filmmakers who (would?) make

(Sadhguru): No, when you say this Hitler double-edged thing,

you must see that it was not only him who would have done propaganda

on the internet, even the Jewish community also would have done it.

(Shekar Kapoor): Yes, thats true; thats completely right.

(Sadhguru): They could have spoken to the whole world what was happening to them.

Now they can only talk about it after it's been done. They could

At that time nobody heard them.

(Shekar Kapoor): No, no, completely right; like we are hearing voices from war areas right now

(Sadhguru): Yes.

(Shekar Kapoor): An individual blog will come out and WikiLeaks and yeah,

if you really want to get political. Okay, Sadhguru question to you.

Hooo.

We see a lot of agricultural families gradually moving to cities

to avoid continuous famine or for better education to the children.

This creates an imbalance in the society in terms of economy and nature.

How could we balance this together? I think this has probably come as a

because of what all you talked about the rural areas.

(Sadhguru): So this is this is a effort we are making on all levels. We are

We are trying to do various things.

One thing is sport which has made village little vibrant.

Wherever the sport has come the village has become quite vibrant; village life has become vibrant.

Now for many of them their lives revolve around that one volleyball match

thats going to happen on the Saturday evening; theres a certain sense of pride.

Instead of Saturday evenings going to the city, theyre staying back in the village

because their village is playing a match - this kind of things.

We are also trying to bring folk music back folk music and

dance back into the village. Just a generation ago, every agricultural activity

had music and dance with it. Even today in some parts of the country

you can see, but mostly it is dead. All the dancing and singing is

done by the film stars; you you guys are doing everything. (Laughs)

The common people are neither dancing nor singing, nor nothing.

Theyre just sitting there and eating potato chips and watching you guys.

(Shekar Kapoor): Or just dancing to our tune.

(Sadhguru): So Because working in the field, agriculture as an activity,

if you are doing it only for economic purpose it's a heartbreaking activity.

All this suicides that you are hearing of right now in the villages,

the farmers suicides one reason is, definitely the economic reasons are there,

but above all it's when you work on the field just for economic reasons,t is naturally frustrating.

Unless there is a bonding with the land

there is certain love for what youre doing, there is a certain connection

between the man and the soil with which he is working

which is what all these folk songs were trying to build, always

was there in the tradition. Without that song, just going there,

morning to evening working and coming home where theres

no sense of community, theres no sense of togetherness, it's a pretty bad life.

So making village life worthwhile, that it's worth living in the village,

creating the necessary hygiene, creating the necessary health atmosphere,

creating necessary education facilities for the children of tomorrow and

above all making life in the village joyful enough, vibrant enough so that

any vibrance means you have to go to the city street, not necessary

in the village itself something is happening.

As a part of this we are trying to bring folk music and dance and sport,

all these things to village but still we have close to 700,000 villages in the country.

We are covering some three to four thousand villages now,

but still it's a drop in the ocean. This needs to be funded,

this needs to be activated on a major scale.

We need to understand if we want to build a nation

there are certain fundamental things that you have to do with the people which we have never done.

Just building a road, just building a thing is not going to make the nation;

we have to do something about the people that they must feel strongly about the nation.

Right now their sense of caste, creed, religion is stronger

than the idea of the nation in their mind.

After all your nationhood is just an idea;

unless you reinforce that idea in individual human beings mind

you don't really have a nation, you are sitting on a time bomb in many ways.

So bringing a certain cultural integrity to the whole thing, not just playing it on the television

but bringing it down to the street and making this happen on that level

is what we are trying to do but people think

what we are doing is massive because were talking of a few thousand villages

but compared to what needs to be done it's just a drop in the ocean.

(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah. Theres also in this case I was going to talk about that.

Somebody has telepathy?

Mr Kapur, could you please talk about your upcoming movie, Pani (Water), and how do you think

it is going to bring actionable impact on society?

My God it's kind of (a?) burden for me to make a film that has actionable impact on society

but okay we will try, but right from the last question

One of the big problems in villages in India is that water is not readily available.

Sixty to seventy percent of Indian agriculture relies on ground water.

Nobody is quite decided who the ground water belongs to and as

more and more factories are moving into the village and urban areas are leaking in,

they have the power and the money to use more powerful pumps to take the ground water.

So ground water well water is going down

and then ground water is being taken up and then

being priced out of the village

(Sadhguru): This is a resource that I can steal from your land without coming into your land.

(Shekar Kapoor): Absolutely.

(Sadhguru): Thats something people need to understand.

(Shekar Kapoor): Absolutely. But thats whats happening and so while people say,

Well, water is not privatized, It is effectively privatized because it's

being taken out of the ground and then because of people with more money

take it out of the ground and then effectively something

very meticulous happening is water is traveling away from the

and water is now following not where it's needed most, but where it gets the best price.

In fact water is following greed not need and as it (its?) going into the urban areas

where it gets the best price, everybody in the village, as the village dries up,

people move into the urban areas creating huge problems of urban infrastructure.

So the reason Im saying is thats exactly what my film Pani is about.

Pani is about

(Sadhguru): Even Mahatma Gandhi said, You can't even tax salt that comes out of water

of the ocean, but now we are going to a place where a bottle of water

or a liter of water costs more than a liter of milk

(Sekhar Kapoor): Absolutely, completely; and so that is what Pani is about.

For that question it is about a slightly slightly in the future, although

I keep saying its in the future, only because I want to bring all the elements together

but really what Im going to be talking about is happening

in some place somewhere in the world already and it's about a time

when were living in mega cities and now the water is running out in the cities

and the cities are divided between those that have water,

which is very few - about 15%, and the 85% of the people

who dont have water and the conflict has started

(Sadhguru): It's a new description of haves and have nots.

(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah. Absolutely - Pani and no pani. And democracy is pretty simple;

democracy has become so simple that all it means is

you give us votes and we will give you water. So it's the simplest form of democracy but

water is the metaphor for exploitation.

So the question actionable impact on the society,

I think that what youre doing is an outreach program

I as a film maker in a film can try my best to raise awareness of these issues.

And if I can raise awareness in people coming out of the film

It's very, very interesting structure, the art of storytelling.

Most commercial films end to sublimate the emotion that they have created.

So theyll create anger in you but in the end if you walk out angry, people say,

Oh what's happened? Im just walking out angry, and if it's a love story

then all the lovers meet but if the lovers dont meet, you come out dissatisfied.

There is an art of storytelling that on one level you bring people out satisfied

so the lovers meet; yet in my story theres an underlying thing

(Sadhguru): I dont think you should reveal the plot right now.

(Shekar Kapoor): Oh okay, all right. No plot, over. Mind you everybody walks into a film

knowing theres a love story and the lovers meet but thats essentially so

but you come out of the film feeling angry about the fundamental issues,

even though on a plot level it's fine. It's like youre going from A to B

on a very heavily trafficked road, you can get from A to B and

thats your plot, but because the traffic is so bad you come out angry about the about the traffic you know.

So theres something like that we do in plot.

So yes hopefully it's changed. Somebody said,

He is talking too much about his own film. Move on. Okay.

Sadhguru its a question to you. Everybody says, Do not go spiritual shopping.

I don't know what that means but anyway, spiritual shopping in a mall?

But then I want to ask when one knows something is not working for you

at least in your own experience and try to look for another path

it's from somebody called Unorthodox, Dayton, Ohio. Unorthodox,

spiritual shopping, looking for it in a mall; thats pretty unorthodox. Yes. Okay

(Sadhguru): See if the seeker has to decide whether this works for me or not

he will make this decision from the wrong parameters.

When it becomes difficult for him he will quit,

when he thinks he is stagnant he will quit. If we have to use a analogy it's like youre digging a well,

you know we are pani, you know, youre digging a well for water

(Shekar Kapoor):You can't talk about my film. Okay, somebodys saying no.

(Sadhguru): I was the one who stopped you from revealing the plot.

So if youre digging a well... I have I have personally been in this,

I don't know if I have spoken to you. I actually personally got about

six to eight labor (labors?) together and I dug a well myself,

with my own hands, I worked eight to ten hours and dug a well.

I learnt to use the dynamite and I made a well and I hit water.

(Shekar Kapoor): Really?

(Sadhguru) Yeah. So this was an incredible experience for me because as it went in,

as you sink in, after some time you just have a piece of sky and just this

six guys with me, three of us are handling crowbars, other three guys

are filling up the earth and somebody pulls it up every time.

As you go up, the whole bonding of being there in that little hole

continuously and when you look up only that piece of sky and

you are all the guys that are there. I just worked with them for

almost four months digging this well, see my hands. (Laughs)

So when you are digging a well every day this thought will come to you,

Am I hitting the wrong place? It was such a continuous process for me.

Weve Weve gone to 30 feet, 35 feet, weve gone and no trace of water,

you are like every day, every moment youre thinking

because your effort is involved, your money is involved and

above all in the village you will become a fool, okay?

You have picked up a challenging spot to hit the well and

every time you hit your crowbar or your pickaxe youre thinking,

Is this the really the place, maybe? Somebody else comes and

says some other wise guy will come and say,

You are not going to hit anything here. You come there, you do that part,

I can feel it, I can feel the water gurgling there. You come and hit there.

But thats on the surface, now I have to again dig.

So just that thought continuously torments you when youre digging,

till you hit the water.

Now what I say is, first of all you have gone on a spiritual path with

some group or some guru or whatever, cause at at one point

when you made the decision you saw the value of it.

Thats why you have invested your life there, otherwise you wouldnt.

I believe so unless you are you just throw your life wherever you go,

I don't know about that but otherwise I believe because you sensed something,

you tasted something, something touched you and you thought this is it and you went for it.

I would say you persist for some more time

unless you find something seriously wrong with what theyre doing, okay?

Unless you find its something totally a hoax that you got fooled into it,

yes you have to change your decision, otherwise

if you dont find any change in them, they are stable, they are good

and they are doing their work properly, I would suggest wherever you are,

you continue to dig. If you keep changing your mind every other day

youll have lot of holes in your land but no well; pani will not happen.

So it's best to persist unless you have discovered something seriously

wrong with them.

(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah. I do have friends in California who do spiritual shopping.

Every time I go back to California and they found new society or

new guru or new thing. Its like you found a new girlfriend or

a new boyfriend or youve changed your house and I just and yet

I know that theyre looking for some kind of spiritual search?

So what I I mean what is that inside them that is provoking this constant desire

to find something new, what is that restlessness that provokes that?

(Sadhguru); See, one thing is the wrong ideas about spiritual process;

not understanding that when you are looking for something so profound

you need to invest a certain amount of your time, energies and life to find results.

Fanciful commercial books on spirituality, they read that

and some instant gratification should happen; if thats not happening

they want to quit or it is just they dont have a mind of their own,

theyre just guided by whatever is the fashion in the local area.

Theyre all various reasons, but essentially lack of profoundness,

you are becoming flaky in everything.

(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah, I know. I I was really cursed for this statement that

I made once with somebody very important said,

How do I find peace very quickly? I said, Take a sleeping pill.

So there is no way because the journey

(Sadhguru): Even that takes an hour-and-a-half.

(Shekar Kapoor): What? Even that takes an hour-and-a-half, right.

I was just because Im in my experience the journey to spirituality

actually goes through the path of your own demons and there is no

greater danger or theres no greater fear path than your own demons are,

but how can you go there without actually walking through that?

I mean thats my experience, maybe some people find it without that.

Maybe I have more demons than others.

(Sadhguru): It need not be so because all the demons are your making,

you can put them sleep in no time.

(Shekar Kapoor):How do I put my demons to sleep? Im sorry I have to ask you that.

Yes, how?

(Sadhguru): Somebody is asking, Dear Shekhar

(Shekar Kapoor): Oh, can we just talk about demons for a second?

Please. I promise you Sandeep from Santiago, Im going

Sandeep? I think I know you. All right, Sandeep Santiago Ill come back to that,

but let's just talk about demons. How do you put your demons to sleep?

(Sadhguru): You stop creating them.

(Shekar Kapoor): But I have created them already.

(Sadhguru): No, no, you have to actually, see anything that

that is your making which is your psychological making,

you have to actively keep them up, otherwise theyll die.

If you dont invest a certain amount of energy, theyll just die.

So if you do not invest anything in their direction theyll just die

by themselves, you dont have to kill them. Theres no need to

There is no need to slay demons which are imaginary, isn't it?

You will become a Don Quixote.

(Shekar Kapoor): All right. Okay.

Dear Shekhar Kapur, youre a pro in filmmaking okay.

Youre a pro in filmmaking and given us so many wonderful films,

now you also have come in touch with the inner science.

Is there a possibility for using filmmaking as a means to raise human consciousness?

IYes! I dont I mean I ask this question so often;

I dont think I need to make a film on Buddha to talk about Buddhism.

I dont think I need to make a film on Krishna to talk about

the philosophy of duality or of maya of Krishna, or Krishna-Leela.

I feel that almost any story that you make, if there is an underlying subtext inside you

of a search for any kind of spirituality and youre honest

now whether you are a filmmaker or an artist or a poet,

if youre honest in what you do, that spirituality naturally touches your characters?

(Sadhguru): It has to find expression.

(Shekar Kapoor): It has to find expression, and if it doesnt find expression youre merely

making a film from an intellect, not really from the heart.

And quite honestly I have found and when I made some films that have lasted

20 twenty years later people are still watching them.

Twenty-five years later theyre still watching them.

And the only explanation I can give is that their relevance somewhere

touches something that is deeply mythic and therefore deeply spiritual

that you found in yourself at that time and therefore the audience is

still discovering, because that doesnt change. People change, actors change,

fashion change, plot change, ideas change, something that is deeply mythic

and deeply spiritual does not change. So yeah, I mean,

I think films should be spiritual, they must be they should be.

Question I got

In the western world, the talk is of love and truth, that the ultimate truth is love

and that we dont have love, but rather we are love

we dont have love, but rather we are love, and

this is how we connect to our purpose on the highest selves.

Do you agree? Sadhguru - love, truth, highest selves, purpose, connect

yes, Im so glad this question is for you, yeah.

(Sadhguru): See, if a society is hungry, in that society food will be the ultimate quantum,

the ultimate value.

If you are ill, health will be the ultimate value for you.

If you are in poverty, wealth will be the ultimate value for you.

If you are deprived of love, love will be the ultimate value for you.

If you are deprived of happiness, happiness will be the ultimate value for you.

Whatever youre deprived of, at that moment you think this is the highest thing,

but even if that happens people will realize, after it happens that it is not so.

So right now in the western world having been through this industrial revolution,

for the first time women moving out of the house and that generation

which could not today women are moving out of the house, but

they are able to make the necessary arrangements and man has probably

adjusted to fill in certain gaps that she left and maybe

things are getting little better but that generation when suddenly

the changes happened, a whole generation of children went without

much expression of love towards them, because it's a

it's a flux that people were still trying to come to terms with how to handle this.

Always it was assured the woman of the house will be there and

shell love the children and this is it; but once that changed,

before we could adjust to that, one generation or two generations of people

suffered from lack of attention and lack of love and this kind of things.

Today various things are happening. As there is maternity leave,

there is paternity leave, the man will stay back and take care of the child

and attitudes have changed, various things in the world have changed

and access to various things have changed,

various facilities have come up in the social structure to cater to these things, otherwise that

one or two generations in many ways were very much deprived of love.

Because of that I think there is so much talk about love;

Im not trying to demean love. Love is a very essential ingredient in your life.

I would like you to look at it this way. You are looking for pleasantness

essentially in your life. Pleasantness means, if your body becomes pleasant

we normally call it health, if it becomes very pleasant it becomes pleasure.

If your mind becomes pleasant we call it peace,

if it becomes very pleasant we call it joy.

If your emotions become pleasant we call it love,

if it becomes very pleasant we call it compassion.

If your life energies become pleasant we call this bliss,

if it becomes very pleasant we call it ecstasy.

If your external situations become pleasant we call it success.

So this is all the human being is looking for. So only if emotionally

he is in a sweet place which is what love is - it's human emotions turning sweet

either towards somebody or just like that, whichever way it happens.

Now just your emotions being sweet, is it enough for you?

Dont you need health, dont you need well-being, dont you need food,

dont you need peacefulness, dont you need competence, dont you need capability?

If you have lot of love and you become incompetent,

which happens to lots of people unfortunately,

then I dont think people will enjoy that or relish that.

So this talk about love being the core of the universe,

all this is simply coming from a certain state of deprivation within oneself.

People who have grown up in traditional families in India,

we never think of love, because we didnt have to think.

Nobody told us they love us. My mother never ever told me that

she loves me nor did that question arise whether she loves me or not.

I did not even realize that I need to be loved because the whole atmosphere

was such that there was Such a question never arose in me,

Do I need to be loved by somebody,

because they set such an atmosphere, such thoughts never came to us.

Its just like - only if there is poverty in the house and theres not enough food,

probably you will think so much about food and how to get it.

When it's there every day you dont think about it,

you dont think about making an arrangement for it.

Similarly when love is simply there all around you in every possible way,

you never even thought that it is some it's a

something that has to be bought from somewhere or

gotten from somewhere, you know.

So these things are coming from certain levels of deprivation.

Love is the sweetest way to be for a human being, it's a good way to be,

its a wonderful way to be, but at the same time it's not necessary

to exaggerate this beyond limitation. Now you are talking about

the questioner is talking about love and truth.

I don't know what kind of truth youre talking about.

If youre talking about the ultimate nature of the truth, it is universality,

it is absolute inclusiveness. Love means to love you need two.

Youre trying to include with love, moments of inclusion will happen

and then you fall apart. No lovers anywhere have found continuous

state of inclusiveness. Moments of inclusiveness and then falling apart,

moments of inclusiveness then falling apart; this is how people experience it.

So ultimate truth is absolute state of inclusiveness, which you can

which cannot be termed as love. Love is an effort in that direction.

So is joy, so is peacefulness; when youre peaceful

you are actually one with everything. When youre joyful youre actually

when you sit and laugh with each other, aren't you in some way bonded as one?

Thats why the drinking buddies going on too well.

(Shekar Kapoor): Okay. Question from me before I go thats to me

Satyam, Shivam, Sundaram, what does that really mean?

(Sadhguru): The movie is already made, you can't

(Shekar Kapoor): Oh, come on.

(Sadhguru): It's already a done thing, Shekhar.

(Shekar Kapoor): I know, I know.

(Sadhguru): Another Kapur.

(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah, okay. Okay. All right, okay. Ill come back to that one.

Yeah. Oh I just want to Many Isha practitioner around the world

have benefited from the practices and being with Sadhguru.

Would you care to share your experience and the impact it has had

on you and your work? What message would you convey to budding

young directors around the world?

I am not Sadhgurus best disciple - no Im his best disciple;

Im not his most disciplined disciple. All I would say is that

if I follow the practices, a little more discipline

come on why you putting me in this because I have to say

in front of him and I cannot say a lie, I have to tell the truth and

here I am getting caught in this whirlwind. So Ill take the last part.

What message would you like to convey to the other directors?

Well, fantastic! You have to do this! I mean theres no doubt

that the practices that are there Ive seen my friends benefit from it.

Ive seen Okay, so heres what Ill say. Ive seen a sense of giving and

a sense of service where what the people that have done the practice

I find that in their work, they give to the work more passionately and more completely

and with less stress and prejudice and less conflict

than anybody else and Ive always wondered at that.

Thats one of the most amazing experiences I have when I go to Isha

is the people whove done the practice or are doing the practice,

their attitudes to what they do. It doesnt matter, they dont have

to do anything as big as filmmaking and I sometimes wonder

if I bring that to my filmmaking, that sense of absolute giving, passion,

compassion, humility to my filmmaking, Id probably make a lot more films.

I would get into less conflict, I would be less afraid of the failure of the film;

now Im talking to all those young directors out there;

I make many, many more films. I Yeah,

Im a little embarrassed here because Im not the most disciplined disciple of Isha,

sort of -sorry. Next question. Yeah, okay.

Intensity Theres a question for you, Sadhguru; thank you very much,

thank God for that - on intensity. Spirituality is to be perceived with intensity.

Im very intense in many things but Im not always sure if the thing

Im pursuing indeed leads to further my spirituality or my ego.

Oh, yeah. It leads to further my spirituality or my ego?

How do I let myself in the path I am pursuing intensely is wrong?

How do I do it?

(Sadhguru): No, I don't know where he got this,

but you should not pursue anything intensely. It is

(Shekar Kapoor): Nothing.

(Sadhguru): No. There is no need to pursue anything intensely.

When you say I am pursuing something intensely, probably what youre trying to say is Im pursuing something madly.

You should be intense. You must see how to raise the intensity of your being,

your mind, your way of existence. If you make this very intense,

anything that you do will be naturally intense,

but if you try to do something intense

one thing is you may end up doing it senselessly,

another thing is you will exhaust yourself and expend yourself too quickly.

If you try to do anything intensely, you will expend yourself too quickly.

There is no need to do anything intensely but you must make

this one absolutely intense to the life process. If that is so, every action that you do,

there will be ease and intensity at the same time. Without ease, if intensity comes,

you will burn yourself out.

(Shekar Kapoor): Thats fascinating. Im putting that right now to my filmmaking and

Im trying to evaluate how that works. I agree with you,

you have to be very intense.

(Sadhguru): You as a person should become very intense.

You dont have to pursue something intensely.

(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah that makes a lot of sense. So does everything you say but

Question for Shekhar if there is a documentary on Sadhguru,

will you direct it?

(Sadhguru): Who is this?

(Shekar Kapoor): From Preeti in Mumbai. Of course I will direct it,

but somebody, you know, somebody sitting right next to me

has to agree to subject himself to the documentary.

Come on, its difficult enough to get him here and answer a few questions,

what are you talking about? Of course I will.

Of course I will, but where do you end it? Ah, so Preeti,

if youre there, where do you end the documentary?

If somebody could write the end of the documentary for me,

I promise Im going to make it, but I promise

you will not be able to write the end right now.

So that was my question; that was an easy one. Let me find one.

Okay. There are so many gurus, so many methods,

so many followers but so few realized beings.

Is the path very tough or our pursuit weak?

It's from Usha Sonam. So many gurus, so many methods, so many followers,

but so few realized beings - is the path very tough or just our pursuit thats weak?

(Sadhguru) I would disagree with the question, that is, there aren't so many gurus

there are scholars, there are teachers, there are charlatans,

there are god-men but therere not too many gurus, theyre very few,

and are there very few realized beings? Not true; there are many, many realized beings.

It is just that they dont carry a banner around themselves that they are realized.

They are not that gross and they may not fit into your idea of

what a realized being is. They may not fit into your ideas of

what realized being is because your ideas have nothing to do with realization.

So definitely the number of gurus are not enough, they have dwindled down

maybe there are any number claiming; anybody who reads one chapter of Gita,

claims himself to be a guru without any knowledge about himself, okay?

Anybody who reads half a book can become a guru, thats a different thing.

Anybody who can Especially in the western world

if you can chant two mantras you can become a guru, okay?

(Shekar Kapoor): Thank you; I know what to do when my film flops now.

(Sadhguru): Yes; you just have to stop cutting your beard and learn a couple of mantras.

(Shekar Kapoor): Thank you, Sadhguru. Ill carry your books

(Sadhguru): So at the same time there are any number of realized beings.

There are any number with us; different levels of realization.

It is just that they will not carry a banner on their head that they are realized.

They are in fantastic states of experience and perception,

but theres no need to carry a banner and

as I said they may not fit into your ideas because that is realization.

Every time a guru comes he naturally faces persecution at some point or the other

simply because he doesnt fit into your ideas of what a realized being should be

because your ideas have been formed

by the one who had come yesterday. The yesterday one also you

you persecuted him because he did not match with the day-before-yesterday guru.

So the today one also youre having the same problems.

So now once this has become accepted, youre looking for other realized beings.

You think they will be just like me. People who are around me

in case theyre realized, you believe theyll be just like me?

Not at all; that is not the quali Realization is not about

making carbon copies; realization is like like a garden-full of flowers.

There is rose flower, there is a lotus, there is a jasmine,

there is one tiny tumbe which is the dearest to Shiva, you know, tiny little flower.

So you think you see a lotus flower and you accept that as realized.

See, you have no way to judge; for example, let me put myself into the example.

You do not know whether I am realized or not. There is no way for you know.

So you should not even believe that I am realized or not realized.

You just have to see whether being with me is useful for your growth or not.

If it is, hang around, what does it matter whether I am realized or not?

Because you will not know, how will you judge;

how will you judge of a dimension that you do not even know,

you have not even tasted? So there is no need to make up your mind

whether I am realized or not. Whether I am useful to you or not, that's all.

(Shekar Kapoor): Okay. People often ask me because Im a filmmaker and

like science fiction, and you always read about the idea of looking for

life outside earth. So I keep saying were not looking for life,

were looking for clones. We look around ourselves and

well find life all around us. Then you ask them, describe and then they say

(Sadhguru): Dont we already have enough clowns; do we want to clown them

clone them? You want to clone them also?

(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah, were just looking for ourselves, were not looking for intelligence.

Okay. Before we end Oh, that was short? Okay, before we end;

any last comments from Sadhguru and Shekhar? My last comments are about

Shekar Kapoor): No. I just made them. I made my comments about us being

the arrogance of our individuality. It's So let me ask you a last question.

Let me ask the last question to you and thats the last comment is

What is individuality?

(Sadhguru): It is something that comes out of your instinct of

for self-preservation because unless you are

you develop a certain individuality you cannot protect yourself,

you cannot preserve yourself. So this individuality gets built up initially

for physical survival, after some time due to misunderstanding of life

or due to a very strong identification with the individual body.

See the bodies are individual - this is one body, that is another body.

Whatever you do this is a separate body, thats a separate body.

This is one organism, thats another organism, though it is functioning

in tandem with the larger organism of the planet and the solar system

and the cosmos which nobody can deny. Today modern science can prove it

to you how every cell and every atom in your body is transacting with

everything else for it to exist right now the way it is.

So the individuality is formed essentially for self-preservation.

When we come to self-preservation the only thing that needs

preservation in you is your physical body. Physical body has to be preserved.

Right now if I trample upon every idea you have in your head, next moment

you can come up with totally brand new ideas, but if I trample upon

one idea of yours you could feel threatened because you feel

your survival is being attacked. Your survival is never in question except

with the physical body. If I trample upon every emotion you have,

every idea you have, your belief systems, your ideologies, everything,

if I beat it down right now actually your intelligence is

capable of coming up with something totally new the next moment,

but because you cling to this, the next one will never happen.

People cling to the stronger they cling to it, the less creative and less

concretized they become in their individuality.

Individual essentially means - it comes from the word indivisible,

that is youre not further divisible, but now in your search for survival

of psychological survival and emotional survival

people make themselves into many things.

Right now already in the question itself there was a thing about Is it my ego,

is it my this where is your ego? There is no such thing,

it's just a nasty part of you which you want to label it as Mr. Ego, you know.

Some aspect of you is nasty; you dont want to see that I am nasty,

you say, It's my ego. Sometimes youre pleasant, sometimes youre unpleasant

you dont even want to come to terms with that.

So individual means youre not further divisible. Is there only one person in this body

or two? If there is two, either you need - you know youre schizophrenic

you need a psychiatric, or maybe you need an exorcist. Two cannot be there,

theres only one; this is indivisible, this is just one being.

So the individuality is a disease, individual is a beautiful thing,

its a compact organism, but individuality or

individualism is a kind of a disease that has grown in the world.

Its all about exclusiveness. Every Everything you see today in the world,

people are promoting exclusiveness and then they are wondering

why there is conflict. If you promote exclusiveness, how can there be no conflict?

There can only be conflict, isn't it?

Okay, thank you Sadhguru. Thank you very much