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Hi, I am Shekhar Kapur and welcome everybody,

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wherever you are in the world; welcome. We are in Mumbai

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and we are here to launch a set of DVDs with Sadhguru that

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I interviewed Sadhguru, called My conversations with the Mystic.

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I am a film director; you may well ask why a film director is sitting here.

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I think that in the course of asking the right questions about cinema

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and storytelling and the creation of stories, ultimately there is one story that

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I always refer to is the my stories are always an attempt to take

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to connect what is finite to the infinite because

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otherwise you live in a kind of limbo of being finite with everything

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that is measurable and then you look out at the sky and you say,

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Well, nothing is measurable, and since time thats what man has done,

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he has ultimately created stories as a survival kit of how he can handle that

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which is infinite with his or her own life that seems finite.

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So I think a step in the direction of searching for that connection or that bridge

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between the two is quite natural with the filmmakers.

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So thats where I lead into my conversations with this incredible man

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called Sadhguru who I just happened to meet but then they say nothing really happens;

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everything is coordinated by a series of karmas.

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So it was my destiny and karma to meet Sadhguru a few years ago

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in a place called Puerto Rico where we both at the same

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same conference and I met this man that everybody was getting attracted to

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and naturally I was, so I went in we were supposed to go somewhere,

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and he offered to drive me there. I think if you ever meet Sadhguru

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and if he offers to drive you somewhere, I would highly recommend that you decline

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because it will be because there is only that in which you know

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you trust your guru, okay? Yet when he is

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(Sadhguru): This man is the safest driver.

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Yes, of course you trust your guru, but when hes taken a corner

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at about 85 kilometers or 85 miles an hour, you kind of taenn

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you know, youre just at the crux of, Do I really trust him?

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Like, Will I really survive this, and then you have to convince yourself,

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This is Sadhguru, you know, he knows, you trust him, but be careful

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be careful of his driving and thats how I met him and

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that set off a great, great relationship and

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Ive often been asked as I was today. Is Sadhguru your friend?

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And I say, Yeah, hes probably one of my best friends,

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But, is he your guru?I say, Yeah, but guru, friend, mystic, a man

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that I turn to when I want to talk about those things that I know less about,

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a man whos in whose presence I feel vulnerable but it's being

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thats the strange thing Great relationship for me with Sadhguru

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is about the fact that I feel completely vulnerable and completely

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comfortable in that vulnerability. In fact theres no other relationship I have

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where I can feel so comfortable with a great sense of being completely

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vulnerable and I think thats probably because Sadh

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but well talk more about that because some of these questions go that way

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about what does it mean to be completely vulnerable and so vulnerable

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that is the greatest power in the world is vulnerability.

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we have four tapes here. The tapes are when we say,

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Is Is Love a Chemical Hijack? I mean is it your hormones

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that suddenly take you across and give you a great sense of love that we say,

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Oh it's love, but its actually just hormones. And if its hormones 

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yes, it probably is - what lies beyond hormones? Can love exist beyond hormones?

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Can relationships exist beyond hormones?

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And you would be probably surprised because each tape goes

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in from talking about hormones and love and then starts to get into

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almost everything because everything is interconnected and it gets into

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naturally into life and death and children and

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theres a separate one on education, but that is also about love.

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Why would it not be?

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So we have, Is Love a Chemical Hijack, Guru - a Roadmap 

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where does a guru come into your life? What does a guru really lay out for you?

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Why a guru? How do you find your guru? Do you need to find a guru?

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Can your guru be sitting in the house next door without you realizing it?

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Is it your destiny to meet your guru? But also in very practical way 

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when you search for a guru, why are you searching and

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what are you searching for because thats fundamental.

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All of us are not asking the right question and thats one of the things that

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I learnt from Sadhguru is, Shekhar, youre not asking the right question.

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Oh, is this right? Shekhar, youre not asking the right question,

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Okay no Shekhar, youre not really

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youre too scared to ask the right question,

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and then I say, Yeah, Im not being vulnerable enough.

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Anyway we will come to that.

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The third one is called, A Miracle of Life which must be a miracle,

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and I guess if life is miracle then death must be a miracle.

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How can one not to be a miracle against the other?

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So there is a lot of discussion on that DVD, and

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Education and Child Blossoming. Is education as we see it now

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an imposition or is it an encouragement. Where does education lie?

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And if you go to Isha Foundation, youll find an amazing, an absolutely

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amazing attitude towards education and the most amazing curious, wonderful,

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joyful kids Ive ever seen in my life, but enough of me and my views

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because we are really here to talk to Sadhguru and his views.

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So please may I introduce to all of you all over the world wherever you are

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and Im sorry I apologize, and we both apologize for the fact

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our connections are not two-way right now, next time they will be,

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and I will turn this over to Sadhguru and very happy to meet you,

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very happy to be here  bit embarrassed because I have to ask you

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all these questions on behalf other people because these questions

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reverberate with me. Would you like to say a few words to

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the audience all over the world and then we can start with the questions?

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(Sadhguru): Like you were saying, film making is about exploring

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the relationship between the finite and the infinite,

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my work is to transport people from the finite to the infinite, to create the necessary tools,

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to build a necessary vehicle for them so that they can transport themselves

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from the finite to the infinite. The whole spiritual process is just that.

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Or in other words what Im saying is, whether it's filmmaking or

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cooking or anything mundane that one can do, in all those aspects

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if you look deep enough it's the same journey.

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It is just that in one or in certain type of activity it may be more apparent,

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but if you look deep enough whether you are gardening or cooking or

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kicking a ball or making a film, essentially its the same thing 

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to move from finite to the infinite.

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The very journey of a human being is just that;

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whoever you are right now you want to be something more.

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If that happens, you want to be something more.

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It's an endless something more which is a longing for the infinite,

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finding expression in installments.

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So my work is just to help people to understand that going in installments is not going to get you to infinite.

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Though the direction is right,

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the vehicle that you are employing is too limited, it can't get you there.

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There are other ways to make it. Everybody has the aspiration

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but they dont have the means. So my essential work and my life is

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to provide them the means for their fundamental aspiration of every human being.

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(Shekar Kapoor): So I have to stop myself from just exploring because

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every time you talk to me, Sadhguru, I have another question,

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and then you talk to me and I have another question and I am sure like

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(Sadhguru): It's time to transport yourself.

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(Shekar Kapoor): Yes, transport transport because at so what youre saying is at one time

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I have to go beyond telling stories of duality and just transform myself into singularity.

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See, Im sorry I am not going to do this because it's about your questions today

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it's not just about my questions,

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but just one more question on this. That vehicle This question of

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When I write a story it's always a conflict between two things,

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whether it's good or evil, man/woman, destiny/fighting your destiny,

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so I create a conflict to solve a conflict in telling a story

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(Sadhguru): See, when you make a film or write a story for that matter,

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what youre doing is, youre just taking a segment of life as you see it,

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maybe slightly dramatized, but youre taking a segment of life.

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In that segment of life there is no solution, there is only conflict

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because every everything if you theres one way of looking at it is 

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just about everything on this planet or anywhere in the existence is conflict.

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Right now, earth is revolving around the sun. Sun is holding it in some ways,

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but earth is trying to go away. It has centrifugal force, going away, this is holding it. It's a conflict.

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So like this if you look at it, a plant is trying to grow;

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if you look at it theres a tremendous conflict in the earth.

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So a worm is eaten by an insect, an insect is eaten by a bird, a bird is eaten

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by an animal, an animal is eaten by something else, this is going on.

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It is all a conflict if you look at it one way, or

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another way of looking at it is it is just harmonious,

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everything is eating itself.

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The most beautiful story that comes out of the yogic lore is 

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one of the most beautiful stories that comes out of the yogic lore is 

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if you enter any temple, at the entrance you would see a kind of a demons face

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with two hands sticking out of his mouth. This is the face of Keertimukha,

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he is called. Keertimukha means a glorious face. This was

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Hes referred to as a demon and Shiva had trouble with somebody.

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So he created a demon and said, Go, deal with this guy,

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but the moment he created this demon that man fell at his feet and

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begged for mercy. Then he said, Okay, spare him.

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Then the demon said, You created me to eat this man and Im hungry.

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What am I supposed to do? So Shiva was in one of those moods,

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he said, You eat yourself, and he ate himself up. By the time

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Shiva looked at him he had eaten himself up completely except for his hands and his face, everything was eaten up.

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Only the face was left. So Shiva looked at this and said,

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You are the most glorious face. So you must be above all gods.

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So every temple, before you enter, above the gods level

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you will see a face, a demons face with hands sticking out

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because that is the last part that hes eating up.

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Someone who is able to consume himself is the ultimate glorious face.

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So essentially life is just that. Either youre consumed by something else,

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or if you have the necessary intelligence and awareness, you consume yourself.

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If you consume yourself you become a glorious face.

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If you let somebody else consume you, youre just

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somebodys breakfast maybe. (Laughter)

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Okay. All right. Its okay Sadhguru. Im going to stop myself from asking you

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another question for myself and I may ask you some of the questions,

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I am not sure where these questions have come from, but Im sure anybody

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who is there will recognize the questions. His first question 

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many spiritual leaders are working towards creating a peaceful world

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bringing down violence. What steps have you taken in that direction?

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Do you think you can impact the leaders of the warring nations and bring

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about peace using your spiritual teachings or methods?

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(Sadhguru): See, there are conflicts which have been hanging upon the planet for decades for the same reasons.

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Different types of conflicts have happened.

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The spiritual leaders or spiritual process essentially focus on

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focuses on bringing peacefulness and blissfulness to an individual human being.

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So when I say an individual human being, it does not matter who he is,

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whether he is a leader of a nation or a business leader or a

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just a man on the street or whatever it is, it works for every human being.

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So definitely spiritual process has to touch everybody, particularly people

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who are in positions of responsibility and power

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because they can make a huge difference for lots of people because they

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When youre a leader When youre a leader of a nation or

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even these days large businesses, every thought, every emotion, every action

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that you generate is impacting millions of people.

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Just the very thought that you generate is impacting people in

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so many different ways.

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When such a responsibility has been placed in your hands

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it's extremely important the leaders of nations, large business corporations,

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they must take these steps to ensure as to how they are within themselves,

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what kind of beings are they. Some work has to be done upon themselves

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because every thought and emotion that they generate is

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impacting millions of people. When such a privilege has been given to you,

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if you just think something is going to happen to million people, it's extremely important

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that you conduct this privilege in a responsible manner, and

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you can only conduct this responsibly if there is a spiritual process within you.

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When I say a spiritual process, maybe not everybody understands what Im

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you know, what it means. So one way of putting it is,

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there is a certain sense of inclusiveness that youre not an exclusive entity,

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you are an inclusive process and this inclusiveness if it does not arise and

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you have the nec you have a certain level of power in your hands, then definitely

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it will lead to various kinds of conflicts; theres no question about that.

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So, we have worked with millions of people, we have worked in the prisons in

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you know, it's mandatory now in all the central prisons in South India and

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there are various other things we are doing to make this happen.

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Definitely we have also tried to work with very major leaders; particularly

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I have focused upon the business leaders because 100 years ago

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if you looked at this world, military leadership was the most powerful leadership.

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In the last 100 years it has evolved into a situation where democratically

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elected leaders, political leaders, are the most powerful people,

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but that is going to change. Thats already beginning to change

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and it's going to change very rapidly in the next 10 to 15 years.

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You will see in the future the economic leaders are going to be the most important people.

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Seeing this, I have started working with

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economic leaders individually on certain levels and we have definitely

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made a difference in the way they make their decisions,

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the way they conduct their businesses  this is being done,

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but this is being done very discreetly because it is not something

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that needs to be handled in public.

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(Shekar Kapoor): Sadhguru, just one thing  we didnt talk about the Outreach programs of Isha.

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Im not sure I will result come if theres a question thats fine

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well be answering it now, but Id like I know, I mean people are aware

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but Im not sure if everybody is aware that Isha is not a religious organization.

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Isha is a spiritual organization but it's far more than that.

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Its educational organization coming up with different ideas

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but very innovative ideas on education yet conforming them to the standards

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that every child has to meet to get on in life. But something thats really important to me,

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it's its an outreach program on something like

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reforestation of all of Tamil Nadu. It's a water outreach program but

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before I say, Id like Sadhguru to talk a little bit about that 

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about the volunteer work, about of Isha and all the specific work that

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Isha is doing to tackle some of the great problems that are facing education,

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medical medicine and environment that Isha is taking on.

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(Sadhguru): See, what I see is, right now in India,

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India is sitting on a threshold of economic prosperity.

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Now the question is will we sit on the threshold forever

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or are we going to cross it?

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Much economic boom is happening in the country

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unlike various other countries particularly western nations, today

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so much economic activity is happening, but what we need to realize is,

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economic activity is happening at this level whatever percentages

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were talking about, 8%, 9% is happening because a large mass of people

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have been in such depths of poverty that now whatever little happens,

00:18:49.891 --> 00:18:54.583
percentages are showing big, but the actual quality of life of the people,

00:18:54.583 --> 00:19:06.153
of a large number, is still not in any great condition. So almost 65% of India

00:19:06.153 --> 00:19:09.120
lives in the villages, and the life in the village has you cannot say

00:19:09.120 --> 00:19:14.016
it has improved in any great sense. Yes, of course, now they have cell phones,

00:19:14.016 --> 00:19:18.912
now they have bore wells, it has improved, you cannot say it is not improved either

00:19:18.912 --> 00:19:25.040
but at the same time you must understand this that India is not a

00:19:25.040 --> 00:19:36.841
India as people is not a helpless population. It's a hugely enterprising population.

00:19:36.841 --> 00:19:40.801
I don't know, some people tell me this statistic, Im not 100% sure, they say

00:19:40.801 --> 00:19:48.913
only 7% of Indians are employed; 93% are self-employed. This was in 2000;

00:19:48.913 --> 00:19:52.834
maybe that percentage is little less now. Maybe 10% is employed,

00:19:52.834 --> 00:19:58.471
90% is self-employed. Maybe hes just selling a small heap of vegetables

00:19:58.471 --> 00:20:06.234
in street corner but hes an entrepreneur; he understands the market, he needs

00:20:06.234 --> 00:20:08.655
he knows how he has to make his own propaganda by shouting a certain thing;

00:20:08.655 --> 00:20:10.996
he knows where to place himself. He has a certain thought process

00:20:10.996 --> 00:20:15.224
which I see is very, very unique; you dont see this anywhere else in the world.

00:20:15.224 --> 00:20:18.473
They are such fabulous entrepreneurs. Every

00:20:18.473 --> 00:20:22.688
Even the street kids are such wonderful entrepreneurs, you know.

00:20:22.688 --> 00:20:27.624
That entrepreneurship is just there everywhere, but it is

00:20:27.624 --> 00:20:32.024
not going where it should naturally go simply

00:20:32.024 --> 00:20:35.392
because the agencies which should facilitate this process,

00:20:35.392 --> 00:20:39.642
by building the necessary infrastructure, creating things around

00:20:39.642 --> 00:20:44.421
which are necessary for them to progress like this; more than anything

00:20:44.421 --> 00:20:49.264
there are any number of hurdles which dont allow a person to, you know,

00:20:49.264 --> 00:20:52.795
be truly enterprising in this country unless you have a certain pull.

00:20:52.795 --> 00:21:02.348
So one aspect of what were trying to do is  one thing is nourishment and health is a serious, serious problem

00:21:02.348 --> 00:21:06.886
In this effort to shift from subsistence farming to cash farming

00:21:06.886 --> 00:21:09.327
When people were doing subsistence farming,

00:21:09.327 --> 00:21:13.687
if you went into a village 25, 30 years ago they were in tatters,

00:21:13.687 --> 00:21:16.980
there was no drinking water, there would be no electricity, there would be

00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:20.674
not a single automobile in the whole village, thats how it used to be.

00:21:20.674 --> 00:21:23.543
Today if you go theres electricity, theres drinking water,

00:21:23.543 --> 00:21:26.911
everybody has cell phones, therere internet kiosks, you know,

00:21:26.911 --> 00:21:30.384
internet connectivity has come to remote villages.

00:21:30.384 --> 00:21:34.548
All these things are there but one thing thats happened is

00:21:34.548 --> 00:21:38.335
at that time the individual human being a rural person means

00:21:38.335 --> 00:21:41.390
he was a sturdy person. Today if you go and see,

00:21:41.390 --> 00:21:47.044
60% of the male population has not even grown to its full size;

00:21:47.044 --> 00:21:49.722
his skeletal system has not grown to full size.

00:21:49.722 --> 00:21:54.105
The condition of the female population is even worse, you dont see them much,

00:21:54.105 --> 00:21:58.511
but the male population you can clearly see, or in other words

00:21:58.511 --> 00:22:03.240
we are producing a whole underdeveloped population.

00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:09.361
If your body is not fully developed, even your brain will not develop 

00:22:09.361 --> 00:22:12.574
a substandard humanity youre producing and youre hoping

00:22:12.574 --> 00:22:16.000
to take the country somewhere. Unless you attend to these things

00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:21.704
it will be very, very difficult. This This is not a pessimistic approach to the nation

00:22:21.704 --> 00:22:25.804
but all I am saying is when we have goals to fulfill,

00:22:25.804 --> 00:22:30.759
when we are thinking of becoming a certain kind of economic power in the world,

00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:33.643
it is very important the fundamentals are handled.

00:22:33.643 --> 00:22:36.810
If you dont handle the fundamentals, you dont have the legs

00:22:36.810 --> 00:22:39.730
but you want to go up the mountain, it's not going to work.

00:22:39.730 --> 00:22:43.158
So in this context we started the Action for Rural Rejuvenation 

00:22:43.158 --> 00:22:47.212
fundamentally on one level to rejuvenate the rural spirit.

00:22:47.212 --> 00:22:53.776
So we started off with yoga and sports which became a huge, phenomenal movement.

00:22:53.776 --> 00:22:58.396
It's been one of the most incredible things to watch

00:22:58.396 --> 00:23:02.124
because when we did this annual you know like village

00:23:02.124 --> 00:23:07.118
we call this Gramotsavam where all the village teams come and play 

00:23:07.118 --> 00:23:13.805
some 814 teams 814 teams from across Tamil Nadu come and participate,

00:23:13.805 --> 00:23:17.814
of all kinds of age groups. Women over 70 years of age coming and

00:23:17.814 --> 00:23:24.742
playing ball, in public, in front of every in competitive levels. (Laughs)

00:23:24.742 --> 00:23:29.630
Such a thing has never happened and when this festival happened,

00:23:29.630 --> 00:23:36.904
there were over 500,000 people attending and the governor of Tamil Nadu was there,

00:23:36.904 --> 00:23:41.375
he looked at this and said, Sadhguru, this happened only when Mahatma came.

00:23:41.375 --> 00:23:42.813
(Shekar Kapoor): Wow!

00:23:42.813 --> 00:23:46.960
(Sadhguru): Because we are not paying for transportation, we are not paying for food;

00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:50.797
everybody is spending their own money. On bicycles, bullock carts, tractors,

00:23:50.797 --> 00:23:55.956
all kinds of transport, they are just coming by themselves.

00:23:55.956 --> 00:24:00.337
Probably a nonreligious, nonpolitical movement has never gathered

00:24:00.337 --> 00:24:04.613
this kind of momentum as it has right now, this whole process.

00:24:04.613 --> 00:24:08.996
So as a part of that there are many children who are first time, school-going children,

00:24:08.996 --> 00:24:12.550
that is the first generation  their parents have never been to school.

00:24:12.550 --> 00:24:15.381
So fundamentally aimed at them we started these

00:24:15.381 --> 00:24:19.000
Isha Vidhya schools which are going on wonderfully well, right now.

00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:24.015
And the ecological project started because in 1998 some

00:24:24.015 --> 00:24:31.183
UN agencies came and made a prediction that by 2025, 60% of Tamil Nadu

00:24:31.183 --> 00:24:34.754
will become a desert. I dont like any kind of predictions because

00:24:34.754 --> 00:24:38.855
when you make a prediction youre only taking cold facts into account.

00:24:38.855 --> 00:24:42.306
You are never considering what is beating in the human heart.

00:24:42.306 --> 00:24:45.847
The human aspirations are ignored and youre making predictions.

00:24:45.847 --> 00:24:49.957
So I didnt like this prediction and I didnt believe it either.

00:24:49.957 --> 00:24:53.691
So I just drove around Tamil Nadu just to see if this is true and

00:24:53.691 --> 00:24:59.113
I found out it's not true. I realized that its not going to go till 2025,

00:24:59.113 --> 00:25:03.226
its going to happen must faster. So I thought what is thing to do.

00:25:03.226 --> 00:25:08.183
I know we can complain, we can protest, we can write letters to the government.

00:25:08.183 --> 00:25:12.761
For whatever reasons maybe they lack the organization,

00:25:12.761 --> 00:25:15.530
maybe they dont have the people, maybe they dont have the resources,

00:25:15.530 --> 00:25:20.575
whatever it is  for whatever reason administrations are not able to fulfill this,

00:25:20.575 --> 00:25:26.454
rather than protesting about it I thought it's best we give them a hand.

00:25:26.454 --> 00:25:32.876
After all thiss a democracy, that means you are also a participant in the government in some way.

00:25:32.876 --> 00:25:37.937
You also have a stake in the government, it's not imposed upon you, it is your choice.

00:25:37.937 --> 00:25:42.678
Maybe you are making a lousy choice but its your choice. (Laughter)

00:25:42.678 --> 00:25:44.920
(Shekar Kapoor): Okay. All right. Yeah.

00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:48.954
(Sadhguru): It's our choice we are it's the governments that we have is essentially our choice.

00:25:48.954 --> 00:25:53.174
we have made the choice, we better support them for five years

00:25:53.174 --> 00:25:55.772
rather than pulling them down all the time.

00:25:55.772 --> 00:25:59.854
So we just made a I just looked at it, what is it that we can do?

00:25:59.854 --> 00:26:05.121
Then I realized Tamil Nadu had only 16.5% green cover.

00:26:05.121 --> 00:26:12.456
Then the national aspiration is 33%. So I made a simple, barefoot calculation.

00:26:12.456 --> 00:26:18.835
If we plant like 114 million trees in the next six to eight years time,

00:26:18.835 --> 00:26:24.203
in 15 years time we will have 33% green cover. So I just told the meditators,

00:26:24.203 --> 00:26:26.374
We should just plant 114 million trees.

00:26:26.374 --> 00:26:29.004
(Shekar Kapoor): Hundred and fourteen million?

00:26:29.004 --> 00:26:32.972
(Sadhguru): Yeah. They said, Sadhguru, do you know what that number is?

00:26:32.972 --> 00:26:34.656
(Shekar Kapoor): Hmm, yeah.

00:26:34.656 --> 00:26:41.360
(Sadhguru): They know Im poor on arithmetic. So I said, I know what the number is.

00:26:41.360 --> 00:26:45.740
They said, It's impossible! Who can plant 114 million trees?

00:26:45.740 --> 00:26:50.239
Then I asked them a simple question, What is Tamil Nadu population?

00:26:50.239 --> 00:26:55.562
They said, Sixty-two million. I said, If all of us plant one tree today,

00:26:55.562 --> 00:26:59.918
take care of it for two years and plant one more, we got the number.

00:26:59.918 --> 00:27:05.062
What's the difficulty? Can't you plant one tree? Even a beggar on the street

00:27:05.062 --> 00:27:08.829
can plant one tree. He will have an office growing for himself.

00:27:08.829 --> 00:27:10.468
(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah.

00:27:10.468 --> 00:27:15.924
(Sadhguru): So we started this movement and it took off

00:27:15.924 --> 00:27:19.773
I spent almost six years planting trees in peoples heads;

00:27:19.773 --> 00:27:24.134
that's the most different terrain. Once thats been done; now it's

00:27:24.134 --> 00:27:28.843
only replanting which is happening very easily.

00:27:28.843 --> 00:27:32.381
So I think we have planted close to 14 million trees out of which about

00:27:32.381 --> 00:27:33.903
(Shekar Kapoor): Oh really!

00:27:33.903 --> 00:27:37.080
(Sadhguru): Yeah. About 10 million trees or little over 10 millions trees have survived.

00:27:37.080 --> 00:27:41.234
The official figures say that the green cover in Tamil Nadu has gone up

00:27:41.234 --> 00:27:46.787
by 5.2% in five-and-half, six years time of work and

00:27:46.787 --> 00:27:54.869
the Google maps show much more than that. So this is a tribute to the people because the spirit

00:27:54.869 --> 00:27:58.483
with which they have done all this is fantastic. Our work has been

00:27:58.483 --> 00:28:02.161
to raise the nurseries, organize and inspire them but essentially

00:28:02.161 --> 00:28:05.088
on the ground it is them who are doing it and its them

00:28:05.088 --> 00:28:10.473
who are taking care of the trees. So these are peoples movements

00:28:10.473 --> 00:28:14.038
that we are launching so that without the participation of the people

00:28:14.038 --> 00:28:18.234
you cannot change anything here and India is a kind of nation

00:28:18.234 --> 00:28:22.041
where you cannot change this country just by policy, you need a movement

00:28:22.041 --> 00:28:23.077
(Shekapr Kapoor): Yeah.

00:28:23.077 --> 00:28:25.293
(Sadhguru): otherwise nothing will change in this country.

00:28:25.293 --> 00:28:32.386
(Shekar Kapoor): Right. Okay Sadhguru, Rajasthan next. Yeah? Okay, all right.

00:28:32.386 --> 00:28:37.378
(Sadhguru): Do I resemble a camel or something? (Laughter)

00:28:37.378 --> 00:28:41.663
So we got a question coming - question for both speakers.

00:28:41.663 --> 00:28:45.522
How visual and interactive media like films and internet is impacting

00:28:45.522 --> 00:28:49.217
the thought process of human beings and their emotions?

00:28:49.217 --> 00:28:53.232
Do you think we (can?) use it as a medium to cultivate awareness

00:28:53.232 --> 00:28:59.346
amongst the masses? I gonna hand this to you first, except to say

00:28:59.346 --> 00:29:04.236
one thing about the word masses. When we used to make films

00:29:04.236 --> 00:29:07.634
when I used to make films in India there was all this questionnaires 

00:29:07.634 --> 00:29:12.915
Who are the masses? Because if you ask anybody, Who are you?

00:29:12.915 --> 00:29:16.104
Theyll say, Well the mass is always somebody else.

00:29:16.104 --> 00:29:19.579
And so Ive never been able to find out who the masses are and

00:29:19.579 --> 00:29:23.741
the whole idea of the masses assumes that you are not the masses.

00:29:23.741 --> 00:29:27.074
(Sadhguru): I think only the Left parties know whore the masses.

00:29:27.074 --> 00:29:30.687
(Shekar Kapoor): All these Left parties except the ones who run the left parties are not the masses.

00:29:30.687 --> 00:29:34.047
They know who they are, thats okay. But Sadhguru, Ill let you

00:29:34.047 --> 00:29:40.455
then Ill talk about it, about both the dangers and the idea, I mean,

00:29:40.455 --> 00:29:47.483
interactive media like films and internet specially is a brilliantly democratic medium.

00:29:47.483 --> 00:29:52.084
I wish that when I started filmmaking I had the internet because

00:29:52.084 --> 00:29:56.756
my desire to make films was not just to make films but to express myself, and

00:29:56.756 --> 00:30:01.560
not only express myself sitting at home but express myself in a way that

00:30:01.560 --> 00:30:06.254
I could reach people and what better way for me to be able to express

00:30:06.254 --> 00:30:13.201
myself through little film, a five minute film, through my Twitter, through my blog,

00:30:13.201 --> 00:30:18.401
put on a film that I shoot, put it on my blog. The time now when somebody

00:30:18.401 --> 00:30:25.450
can spend a hundred dollars, make a film, put it on the internet, put it on you tube

00:30:25.450 --> 00:30:29.134
and get 50 million heads, I mean it's a dream, but people are doing that.

00:30:29.134 --> 00:30:33.856
So you could start what you say in India, start a movement.

00:30:33.856 --> 00:30:38.440
Sometimes I wonder how wonderful it would have been if Gandhi,

00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:43.761
Mahatma Gandhi, had mobile phones to talk on or the internet, yeah and

00:30:43.761 --> 00:30:48.284
then I wonder, I said, yeah, but on the other end what if Hitler had the internet,

00:30:48.284 --> 00:30:52.069
you know, it's a double-head sword but Ill let you take that question.

00:30:52.069 --> 00:30:54.267
(Sadhguru): I have a surprise for you.

00:30:54.267 --> 00:30:58.686
We have just launched an Online Inner Engineering Program, a seven day,

00:30:58.686 --> 00:31:03.895
ten-hour session which is which is having such a tremendous impact on people.

00:31:03.895 --> 00:31:08.732
We are yet to market it in a big way. The very intention of this is,

00:31:08.732 --> 00:31:14.458
as theyre asking the question

00:31:14.458 --> 00:31:22.361
See for the first time, for the very first time in the history of this planet

00:31:22.361 --> 00:31:28.019
you can speak to the whole world, if you have something valuable to say and

00:31:28.019 --> 00:31:32.937
thats not a simple thing; thats not a simple thing.

00:31:32.937 --> 00:31:36.312
As you said Mahatma Gandhi, I want you to look back further like

00:31:36.312 --> 00:31:40.544
a Gautam Buddha or a Krishna when they wanted to communicate something

00:31:40.544 --> 00:31:45.750
they travelled from village to village by foot trying to transmit this, and

00:31:45.750 --> 00:31:49.848
today you can sit here and talk to the whole world.

00:31:49.848 --> 00:31:53.507
If what youre talking makes sense to people, you are able to talk

00:31:53.507 --> 00:31:57.450
to the whole world just sitting in this place and thats not a simple thing,

00:31:57.450 --> 00:32:02.087
thats a tremendous thing.

00:32:02.087 --> 00:32:06.094
So to raise human consciousness should we use it?

00:32:06.094 --> 00:32:09.631
For sure we should, theres no question about it.

00:32:09.631 --> 00:32:13.971
(Shekar Kapoor): I agree; I am just Im a great believer in the internet;

00:32:13.971 --> 00:32:16.394
Im a great believer that it is

00:32:16.394 --> 00:32:18.787
(Sadhguru); Im not a believer in the internet,

00:32:18.787 --> 00:32:21.535
Im a believer in Everybody should know this.

00:32:21.535 --> 00:32:25.417
(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah. No, okay Im a believer in, yeah, in the medium and

00:32:25.417 --> 00:32:29.351
Im a believer that finally because the internet brings people like

00:32:29.351 --> 00:32:33.535
we are doing right now, voices from all over the word together.

00:32:33.535 --> 00:32:37.915
A large part of the politics, I feel, I mean its political answer

00:32:37.915 --> 00:32:44.666
Im giving, a large part of the politics of this world survive on keeping people

00:32:44.666 --> 00:32:49.715
in the jaws of ignorance and the access to the internet also takes people away,

00:32:49.715 --> 00:32:53.707
gives them a chance to come out and give them information and knowledge,

00:32:53.707 --> 00:32:57.676
their ability to communicate with the rest of the world and open their minds

00:32:57.676 --> 00:33:07.245
and discuss with the rest of the world and open themselves out to a world wisdom if you like

00:33:07.245 --> 00:33:11.509
The fear, of course, is it could be world wisdom of Hitler, you don't know,

00:33:11.509 --> 00:33:15.001
but at least it allows people to come out of ignorance of

00:33:15.001 --> 00:33:19.394
and then even filmmakers who (would?) make

00:33:19.394 --> 00:33:22.059
(Sadhguru): No, when you say this Hitler double-edged thing,

00:33:22.059 --> 00:33:27.073
you must see that it was not only him who would have done propaganda

00:33:27.073 --> 00:33:30.575
on the internet, even the Jewish community also would have done it.

00:33:30.575 --> 00:33:33.513
(Shekar Kapoor): Yes, thats true; thats completely right.

00:33:33.513 --> 00:33:37.964
(Sadhguru): They could have spoken to the whole world what was happening to them.

00:33:37.964 --> 00:33:43.270
Now they can only talk about it after it's been done. They could

00:33:43.270 --> 00:33:45.395
At that time nobody heard them.

00:33:45.395 --> 00:33:50.720
(Shekar Kapoor): No, no, completely right; like we are hearing voices from war areas right now

00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:51.940
(Sadhguru): Yes.

00:33:51.940 --> 00:33:58.061
(Shekar Kapoor): An individual blog will come out and WikiLeaks and yeah,

00:33:58.061 --> 00:34:04.556
if you really want to get political. Okay, Sadhguru question to you.

00:34:04.556 --> 00:34:06.389
Hooo.

00:34:06.389 --> 00:34:09.982
We see a lot of agricultural families gradually moving to cities

00:34:09.982 --> 00:34:13.713
to avoid continuous famine or for better education to the children.

00:34:13.713 --> 00:34:17.940
This creates an imbalance in the society in terms of economy and nature.

00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:21.373
How could we balance this together? I think this has probably come as a

00:34:21.373 --> 00:34:25.081
because of what all you talked about the rural areas.

00:34:25.081 --> 00:34:30.728
(Sadhguru): So this is this is a effort we are making on all levels. We are

00:34:30.728 --> 00:34:32.950
We are trying to do various things.

00:34:32.950 --> 00:34:36.888
One thing is sport which has made village little vibrant.

00:34:36.888 --> 00:34:41.860
Wherever the sport has come the village has become quite vibrant; village life has become vibrant.

00:34:41.860 --> 00:34:46.234
Now for many of them their lives revolve around that one volleyball match

00:34:46.234 --> 00:34:49.354
thats going to happen on the Saturday evening; theres a certain sense of pride.

00:34:49.354 --> 00:34:53.473
Instead of Saturday evenings going to the city, theyre staying back in the village

00:34:53.473 --> 00:34:56.524
because their village is playing a match - this kind of things.

00:34:56.524 --> 00:35:00.070
We are also trying to bring folk music back  folk music and

00:35:00.070 --> 00:35:06.456
dance back into the village. Just a generation ago, every agricultural activity

00:35:06.456 --> 00:35:12.260
had music and dance with it. Even today in some parts of the country

00:35:12.260 --> 00:35:15.901
you can see, but mostly it is dead. All the dancing and singing is

00:35:15.901 --> 00:35:21.339
done by the film stars; you you guys are doing everything. (Laughs)

00:35:21.339 --> 00:35:24.875
The common people are neither dancing nor singing, nor nothing.

00:35:24.875 --> 00:35:29.113
Theyre just sitting there and eating potato chips and watching you guys.

00:35:29.113 --> 00:35:32.530
(Shekar Kapoor): Or just dancing to our tune.

00:35:32.530 --> 00:35:39.176
(Sadhguru): So Because working in the field, agriculture as an activity,

00:35:39.176 --> 00:35:44.135
if you are doing it only for economic purpose it's a heartbreaking activity.

00:35:44.135 --> 00:35:48.488
All this suicides that you are hearing of right now in the villages,

00:35:48.488 --> 00:35:52.701
the farmers suicides  one reason is, definitely the economic reasons are there,

00:35:52.701 --> 00:35:59.254
but above all it's when you work on the field just for economic reasons,t is naturally frustrating.

00:35:59.254 --> 00:36:01.527
Unless there is a bonding with the land

00:36:01.527 --> 00:36:05.470
there is certain love for what youre doing, there is a certain connection

00:36:05.470 --> 00:36:08.484
between the man and the soil with which he is working 

00:36:08.484 --> 00:36:12.453
which is what all these folk songs were trying to build, always

00:36:12.453 --> 00:36:15.969
was there in the tradition. Without that song, just going there,

00:36:15.969 --> 00:36:19.118
morning to evening working and coming home where theres

00:36:19.118 --> 00:36:24.619
no sense of community, theres no sense of togetherness, it's a pretty bad life.

00:36:24.619 --> 00:36:29.228
So making village life worthwhile, that it's worth living in the village,

00:36:29.228 --> 00:36:33.175
creating the necessary hygiene, creating the necessary health atmosphere,

00:36:33.175 --> 00:36:37.742
creating necessary education facilities for the children of tomorrow and

00:36:37.742 --> 00:36:43.517
above all making life in the village joyful enough, vibrant enough so that 

00:36:43.517 --> 00:36:47.079
any vibrance means you have to go to the city street, not necessary 

00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:49.332
in the village itself something is happening.

00:36:49.332 --> 00:36:53.264
As a part of this we are trying to bring folk music and dance and sport,

00:36:53.264 --> 00:37:00.171
all these things to village but still we have close to 700,000 villages in the country.

00:37:00.171 --> 00:37:03.915
We are covering some three to four thousand villages now,

00:37:03.915 --> 00:37:08.060
but still it's a drop in the ocean. This needs to be funded,

00:37:08.060 --> 00:37:10.721
this needs to be activated on a major scale.

00:37:10.721 --> 00:37:15.256
We need to understand if we want to build a nation

00:37:15.256 --> 00:37:20.441
there are certain fundamental things that you have to do with the people which we have never done.

00:37:20.441 --> 00:37:23.971
Just building a road, just building a thing is not going to make the nation;

00:37:23.971 --> 00:37:28.777
we have to do something about the people that they must feel strongly about the nation.

00:37:28.777 --> 00:37:32.254
Right now their sense of caste, creed, religion is stronger

00:37:32.254 --> 00:37:35.071
than the idea of the nation in their mind.

00:37:35.071 --> 00:37:38.039
After all your nationhood is just an idea;

00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:42.706
unless you reinforce that idea in individual human beings mind

00:37:42.706 --> 00:37:48.475
you don't really have a nation, you are sitting on a time bomb in many ways.

00:37:48.475 --> 00:37:53.355
So bringing a certain cultural integrity to the whole thing, not just playing it on the television

00:37:53.355 --> 00:37:58.238
but bringing it down to the street and making this happen on that level

00:37:58.238 --> 00:38:00.683
is what we are trying to do but people think

00:38:00.683 --> 00:38:05.019
what we are doing is massive because were talking of a few thousand villages

00:38:05.019 --> 00:38:08.752
but compared to what needs to be done it's just a drop in the ocean.

00:38:08.752 --> 00:38:14.716
(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah. Theres also in this case  I was going to talk about that.

00:38:14.716 --> 00:38:17.007
Somebody has telepathy? 

00:38:17.007 --> 00:38:22.698
Mr Kapur, could you please talk about your upcoming movie, Pani (Water), and how do you think

00:38:22.698 --> 00:38:26.082
it is going to bring actionable impact on society?

00:38:26.082 --> 00:38:32.285
My God it's kind of (a?) burden for me to make a film that has actionable impact on society

00:38:32.285 --> 00:38:37.014
but okay we will try, but right from the last question

00:38:37.014 --> 00:38:43.615
One of the big problems in villages in India is that water is not readily available.

00:38:43.615 --> 00:38:49.426
Sixty to seventy percent of Indian agriculture relies on ground water.

00:38:49.426 --> 00:38:53.264
Nobody is quite decided who the ground water belongs to and as

00:38:53.264 --> 00:38:58.483
more and more factories are moving into the village and urban areas are leaking in,

00:38:58.483 --> 00:39:05.405
they have the power and the money to use more powerful pumps to take the ground water.

00:39:05.405 --> 00:39:08.238
So ground water well water is going down

00:39:08.238 --> 00:39:10.960
and then ground water is being taken up and then

00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:12.433
being priced out of the village

00:39:12.433 --> 00:39:16.911
(Sadhguru): This is a resource that I can steal from your land without coming into your land.

00:39:16.911 --> 00:39:18.212
(Shekar Kapoor): Absolutely.

00:39:18.212 --> 00:39:20.700
(Sadhguru): Thats something people need to understand.

00:39:20.700 --> 00:39:24.988
(Shekar Kapoor): Absolutely. But thats whats happening and so while people say,

00:39:24.988 --> 00:39:28.136
Well, water is not privatized, It is effectively privatized because it's

00:39:28.136 --> 00:39:31.823
being taken out of the ground and then because of people with more money

00:39:31.823 --> 00:39:34.874
take it out of the ground and then effectively something

00:39:34.874 --> 00:39:38.398
very meticulous happening is water is traveling away from the

00:39:38.398 --> 00:39:46.158
and water is now following not where it's needed most, but where it gets the best price.

00:39:46.158 --> 00:39:50.822
In fact water is following greed not need and as it (its?) going into the urban areas

00:39:50.822 --> 00:39:54.831
where it gets the best price, everybody in the village, as the village dries up,

00:39:54.831 --> 00:39:59.760
people move into the urban areas creating huge problems of urban infrastructure.

00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:03.825
So the reason Im saying is thats exactly what my film Pani is about.

00:40:03.825 --> 00:40:04.755
Pani is about

00:40:04.755 --> 00:40:09.283
(Sadhguru): Even Mahatma Gandhi said, You can't even tax salt that comes out of water

00:40:09.283 --> 00:40:13.710
of the ocean, but now we are going to a place where a bottle of water

00:40:13.710 --> 00:40:17.760
or a liter of water costs more than a liter of milk

00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:23.157
(Sekhar Kapoor): Absolutely, completely; and so that is what Pani is about.

00:40:23.157 --> 00:40:27.732
For that question it is about a slightly slightly in the future, although

00:40:27.732 --> 00:40:33.114
I keep saying its in the future, only because I want to bring all the elements together

00:40:33.114 --> 00:40:36.288
but really what Im going to be talking about is happening

00:40:36.288 --> 00:40:39.885
in some place somewhere in the world already and it's about a time

00:40:39.885 --> 00:40:44.316
when were living in mega cities and now the water is running out in the cities

00:40:44.346 --> 00:40:47.926
and the cities are divided between those that have water,

00:40:47.926 --> 00:40:51.797
which is very few - about 15%, and the 85% of the people

00:40:51.797 --> 00:40:54.787
who dont have water and the conflict has started

00:40:54.787 --> 00:40:57.590
(Sadhguru): It's a new description of haves and have nots.

00:40:57.590 --> 00:41:02.978
(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah. Absolutely - Pani and no pani. And democracy is pretty simple;

00:41:02.978 --> 00:41:07.692
democracy has become so simple that all it means is

00:41:07.692 --> 00:41:12.373
you give us votes and we will give you water. So it's the simplest form of democracy but

00:41:12.373 --> 00:41:14.789
water is the metaphor for exploitation.

00:41:14.789 --> 00:41:20.035
So the question actionable impact on the society,

00:41:20.035 --> 00:41:24.341
I think that what youre doing is an outreach program 

00:41:24.341 --> 00:41:30.560
I as a film maker in a film can try my best to raise awareness of these issues.

00:41:30.560 --> 00:41:33.906
And if I can raise awareness in people coming out of the film

00:41:33.906 --> 00:41:37.865
It's very, very interesting structure, the art of storytelling.

00:41:37.865 --> 00:41:44.240
Most commercial films end to sublimate the emotion that they have created.

00:41:44.240 --> 00:41:48.543
So theyll create anger in you but in the end if you walk out angry, people say,

00:41:48.543 --> 00:41:53.161
Oh what's happened? Im just walking out angry, and if it's a love story

00:41:53.161 --> 00:41:59.471
then all the lovers meet but if the lovers dont meet, you come out dissatisfied.

00:41:59.471 --> 00:42:05.020
There is an art of storytelling that on one level you bring people out satisfied

00:42:05.020 --> 00:42:08.187
so the lovers meet; yet in my story theres an underlying thing

00:42:08.187 --> 00:42:11.150
(Sadhguru): I dont think you should reveal the plot right now.

00:42:11.150 --> 00:42:15.428
(Shekar Kapoor): Oh okay, all right. No plot, over. Mind you everybody walks into a film

00:42:15.428 --> 00:42:20.154
knowing theres a love story and the lovers meet but thats essentially so

00:42:20.154 --> 00:42:26.593
but you come out of the film feeling angry about the fundamental issues,

00:42:26.593 --> 00:42:31.780
even though on a plot level it's fine. It's like youre going from A to B

00:42:31.780 --> 00:42:36.215
on a very heavily trafficked road, you can get from A to B and

00:42:36.215 --> 00:42:41.089
thats your plot, but because the traffic is so bad you come out angry about the about the traffic you know.

00:42:41.089 --> 00:42:43.489
So theres something like that we do in plot.

00:42:43.489 --> 00:42:48.044
So yes hopefully it's changed. Somebody said,

00:42:48.044 --> 00:42:52.801
He is talking too much about his own film. Move on. Okay.

00:42:52.801 --> 00:42:57.382
Sadhguru its a question to you. Everybody says, Do not go spiritual shopping.

00:42:57.382 --> 00:43:02.596
I don't know what that means but anyway, spiritual shopping in a mall?

00:43:02.596 --> 00:43:06.865
But then I want to ask when one knows something is not working for you

00:43:06.865 --> 00:43:12.731
at least in your own experience and try to look for another path

00:43:12.731 --> 00:43:20.004
it's from somebody called Unorthodox, Dayton, Ohio. Unorthodox,

00:43:20.004 --> 00:43:30.756
spiritual shopping, looking for it in a mall; thats pretty unorthodox. Yes. Okay

00:43:30.756 --> 00:43:37.928
(Sadhguru): See if the seeker has to decide whether this works for me or not

00:43:37.928 --> 00:43:40.841
he will make this decision from the wrong parameters.

00:43:40.841 --> 00:43:47.421
When it becomes difficult for him he will quit,

00:43:47.421 --> 00:43:52.649
when he thinks he is stagnant he will quit. If we have to use a analogy it's like youre digging a well,

00:43:52.649 --> 00:43:56.716
you know we are pani, you know, youre digging a well for water

00:43:56.716 --> 00:43:59.166
(Shekar Kapoor):You can't talk about my film. Okay, somebodys saying no.

00:43:59.166 --> 00:44:05.009
(Sadhguru): I was the one who stopped you from revealing the plot.

00:44:05.009 --> 00:44:11.241
So if youre digging a well... I have I have personally been in this,

00:44:11.241 --> 00:44:15.057
I don't know if I have spoken to you. I actually personally got about

00:44:15.057 --> 00:44:19.041
six to eight labor (labors?) together and I dug a well myself,

00:44:19.041 --> 00:44:23.507
with my own hands, I worked eight to ten hours and dug a well.

00:44:23.507 --> 00:44:28.580
I learnt to use the dynamite and I made a well and I hit water.

00:44:28.580 --> 00:44:30.299
(Shekar Kapoor): Really?

00:44:30.299 --> 00:44:35.708
(Sadhguru) Yeah. So this was an incredible experience for me because as it went in,

00:44:35.708 --> 00:44:40.443
as you sink in, after some time you just have a piece of sky and just this

00:44:40.443 --> 00:44:45.265
six guys with me, three of us are handling crowbars, other three guys

00:44:45.265 --> 00:44:48.148
are filling up the earth and somebody pulls it up every time.

00:44:48.148 --> 00:44:51.954
As you go up, the whole bonding of being there in that little hole

00:44:51.954 --> 00:44:55.980
continuously and when you look up only that piece of sky and

00:44:55.980 --> 00:44:59.218
you are all the guys that are there. I just worked with them for

00:44:59.218 --> 00:45:06.745
almost four months digging this well, see my hands. (Laughs)

00:45:06.745 --> 00:45:12.474
So when you are digging a well every day this thought will come to you,

00:45:12.474 --> 00:45:18.175
Am I hitting the wrong place? It was such a continuous process for me.

00:45:18.175 --> 00:45:26.011
Weve Weve gone to 30 feet, 35 feet, weve gone and no trace of water,

00:45:26.011 --> 00:45:29.679
you are like every day, every moment youre thinking

00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:32.655
because your effort is involved, your money is involved and

00:45:32.655 --> 00:45:37.073
above all in the village you will become a fool, okay?

00:45:37.073 --> 00:45:40.104
You have picked up a challenging spot to hit the well and

00:45:40.224 --> 00:45:46.563
every time you hit your crowbar or your pickaxe youre thinking,

00:45:46.563 --> 00:45:49.792
Is this the really the place, maybe? Somebody else comes and

00:45:49.792 --> 00:45:53.011
says some other wise guy will come and say,

00:45:53.011 --> 00:45:57.040
You are not going to hit anything here. You come there, you do that part,

00:45:57.040 --> 00:46:02.395
I can feel it, I can feel the water gurgling there. You come and hit there.

00:46:02.395 --> 00:46:05.986
But thats on the surface, now I have to again dig.

00:46:05.986 --> 00:46:09.822
So just that thought continuously torments you when youre digging,

00:46:09.822 --> 00:46:13.351
till you hit the water.

00:46:13.351 --> 00:46:18.669
Now what I say is, first of all you have gone on a spiritual path with

00:46:18.669 --> 00:46:23.388
some group or some guru or whatever, cause at at one point

00:46:23.388 --> 00:46:26.746
when you made the decision you saw the value of it.

00:46:26.746 --> 00:46:31.121
Thats why you have invested your life there, otherwise you wouldnt.

00:46:31.121 --> 00:46:35.835
I believe so unless you are you just throw your life wherever you go,

00:46:35.835 --> 00:46:40.168
I don't know about that but otherwise I believe because you sensed something,

00:46:40.168 --> 00:46:44.601
you tasted something, something touched you and you thought this is it and you went for it.

00:46:44.601 --> 00:46:49.034
I would say you persist for some more time

00:46:49.034 --> 00:46:54.747
unless you find something seriously wrong with what theyre doing, okay?

00:46:54.747 --> 00:46:58.424
Unless you find its something totally a hoax that you got fooled into it,

00:46:58.424 --> 00:47:01.614
yes you have to change your decision, otherwise

00:47:01.614 --> 00:47:04.897
if you dont find any change in them, they are stable, they are good

00:47:04.897 --> 00:47:08.861
and they are doing their work properly, I would suggest wherever you are,

00:47:08.861 --> 00:47:12.606
you continue to dig. If you keep changing your mind every other day

00:47:12.606 --> 00:47:18.997
youll have lot of holes in your land but no well; pani will not happen.

00:47:18.997 --> 00:47:23.295
So it's best to persist unless you have discovered something seriously

00:47:23.295 --> 00:47:24.936
wrong with them.

00:47:24.936 --> 00:47:29.317
(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah. I do have friends in California who do spiritual shopping.

00:47:29.317 --> 00:47:35.035
Every time I go back to California and they found new society or

00:47:35.035 --> 00:47:39.381
new guru or new thing. Its like you found a new girlfriend or

00:47:39.381 --> 00:47:43.188
a new boyfriend or youve changed your house and I just and yet

00:47:43.188 --> 00:47:46.627
I know that theyre looking for some kind of spiritual search?

00:47:46.627 --> 00:47:53.634
So what I I mean what is that inside them that is provoking this constant desire

00:47:53.634 --> 00:47:58.163
to find something new, what is that restlessness that provokes that?

00:47:58.163 --> 00:48:03.937
(Sadhguru); See, one thing is the wrong ideas about spiritual process;

00:48:03.937 --> 00:48:08.760
not understanding that when you are looking for something so profound

00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:13.754
you need to invest a certain amount of your time, energies and life to find results.

00:48:17.784 --> 00:48:22.275
Fanciful commercial books on spirituality, they read that

00:48:22.275 --> 00:48:26.188
and some instant gratification should happen; if thats not happening

00:48:26.188 --> 00:48:30.560
they want to quit or it is just they dont have a mind of their own,

00:48:30.560 --> 00:48:34.373
theyre just guided by whatever is the fashion in the local area.

00:48:34.373 --> 00:48:37.927
Theyre all various reasons, but essentially lack of profoundness,

00:48:37.927 --> 00:48:40.030
you are becoming flaky in everything.

00:48:40.030 --> 00:48:44.008
(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah, I know. I I was really cursed for this statement that

00:48:44.008 --> 00:48:46.688
I made once with somebody very important said,

00:48:46.688 --> 00:48:50.960
How do I find peace very quickly? I said, Take a sleeping pill.

00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:53.470
So there is no way because the journey

00:48:53.470 --> 00:48:56.108
(Sadhguru): Even that takes an hour-and-a-half.

00:48:56.108 --> 00:48:59.487
(Shekar Kapoor): What? Even that takes an hour-and-a-half, right.

00:48:59.487 --> 00:49:03.312
I was just because Im in my experience the journey to spirituality

00:49:03.312 --> 00:49:07.011
actually goes through the path of your own demons and there is no

00:49:07.011 --> 00:49:12.252
greater danger or theres no greater fear path than your own demons are,

00:49:12.252 --> 00:49:17.881
but how can you go there without actually walking through that?

00:49:17.881 --> 00:49:21.333
I mean thats my experience, maybe some people find it without that.

00:49:21.333 --> 00:49:23.403
Maybe I have more demons than others.

00:49:23.403 --> 00:49:26.256
(Sadhguru): It need not be so because all the demons are your making,

00:49:26.256 --> 00:49:29.242
you can put them sleep in no time.

00:49:29.242 --> 00:49:33.423
(Shekar Kapoor):How do I put my demons to sleep? Im sorry I have to ask you that.

00:49:33.423 --> 00:49:34.510
Yes, how?

00:49:34.510 --> 00:49:37.072
(Sadhguru): Somebody is asking, Dear Shekhar

00:49:37.072 --> 00:49:40.580
(Shekar Kapoor): Oh, can we just talk about demons for a second?

00:49:40.580 --> 00:49:43.809
Please. I promise you Sandeep from Santiago, Im going 

00:49:43.809 --> 00:49:47.954
Sandeep? I think I know you. All right, Sandeep Santiago Ill come back to that,

00:49:47.954 --> 00:49:51.641
but let's just talk about demons. How do you put your demons to sleep?

00:49:51.641 --> 00:49:55.552
(Sadhguru): You stop creating them.

00:49:55.552 --> 00:49:58.223
(Shekar Kapoor): But I have created them already.

00:49:58.223 --> 00:50:01.369
(Sadhguru): No, no, you have to actually,  see anything that

00:50:01.369 --> 00:50:05.366
that is your making which is your psychological making,

00:50:05.366 --> 00:50:08.995
you have to actively keep them up, otherwise theyll die.

00:50:08.995 --> 00:50:12.344
If you dont invest a certain amount of energy, theyll just die.

00:50:12.344 --> 00:50:17.264
So if you do not invest anything in their direction theyll just die

00:50:17.264 --> 00:50:21.757
by themselves, you dont have to kill them. Theres no need to

00:50:21.757 --> 00:50:26.028
There is no need to slay demons which are imaginary, isn't it?

00:50:26.028 --> 00:50:28.440
You will become a Don Quixote.

00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:33.118
(Shekar Kapoor): All right. Okay.

00:50:33.118 --> 00:50:36.074
Dear Shekhar Kapur, youre a pro in filmmaking okay.

00:50:36.074 --> 00:50:39.638
Youre a pro in filmmaking and given us so many wonderful films,

00:50:39.638 --> 00:50:42.461
now you also have come in touch with the inner science.

00:50:42.461 --> 00:50:47.429
Is there a possibility for using filmmaking as a means to raise human consciousness?

00:50:47.429 --> 00:50:54.989
IYes! I dont I mean I ask this question so often;

00:50:54.989 --> 00:51:00.064
I dont think I need to make a film on Buddha to talk about Buddhism.

00:51:00.064 --> 00:51:04.850
I dont think I need to make a film on Krishna to talk about

00:51:04.850 --> 00:51:10.374
the philosophy of duality or of maya of Krishna, or Krishna-Leela.

00:51:10.374 --> 00:51:18.524
I feel that almost any story that you make, if there is an underlying subtext inside you

00:51:18.524 --> 00:51:23.376
of a search for any kind of spirituality and youre honest 

00:51:23.376 --> 00:51:26.593
now whether you are a filmmaker or an artist or a poet,

00:51:26.593 --> 00:51:30.967
if youre honest in what you do, that spirituality naturally touches your characters?

00:51:30.967 --> 00:51:33.102
(Sadhguru): It has to find expression.

00:51:33.102 --> 00:51:36.790
(Shekar Kapoor): It has to find expression, and if it doesnt find expression youre merely

00:51:36.790 --> 00:51:40.793
making a film from an intellect, not really from the heart.

00:51:40.793 --> 00:51:45.411
And quite honestly I have found and when I made some films that have lasted

00:51:45.411 --> 00:51:48.707
20 twenty years later people are still watching them.

00:51:48.707 --> 00:51:51.468
Twenty-five years later theyre still watching them.

00:51:51.468 --> 00:51:56.008
And the only explanation I can give is that their relevance somewhere

00:51:56.008 --> 00:52:03.364
touches something that is deeply mythic and therefore deeply spiritual

00:52:03.364 --> 00:52:07.040
that you found in yourself at that time and therefore the audience is

00:52:07.040 --> 00:52:11.043
still discovering, because that doesnt change. People change, actors change,

00:52:11.043 --> 00:52:16.363
fashion change, plot change, ideas change, something that is deeply mythic

00:52:16.363 --> 00:52:19.709
and deeply spiritual does not change. So yeah, I mean,

00:52:19.709 --> 00:52:28.363
I think films should be spiritual, they must be they should be.

00:52:28.363 --> 00:52:30.280
Question I got

00:52:30.280 --> 00:52:35.877
In the western world, the talk is of love and truth, that the ultimate truth is love

00:52:35.877 --> 00:52:40.108
and that we dont have love, but rather we are love

00:52:40.108 --> 00:52:43.023
we dont have love, but rather we are love, and

00:52:43.023 --> 00:52:46.475
this is how we connect to our purpose on the highest selves.

00:52:46.475 --> 00:53:00.412
Do you agree? Sadhguru - love, truth, highest selves, purpose, connect 

00:53:00.412 --> 00:53:04.361
yes, Im so glad this question is for you, yeah.

00:53:04.361 --> 00:53:17.286
(Sadhguru): See, if a society is hungry, in that society food will be the ultimate quantum,

00:53:17.286 --> 00:53:21.548
the ultimate value.

00:53:21.548 --> 00:53:28.650
If you are ill, health will be the ultimate value for you.

00:53:28.650 --> 00:53:34.334
If you are in poverty, wealth will be the ultimate value for you.

00:53:34.334 --> 00:53:40.304
If you are deprived of love, love will be the ultimate value for you.

00:53:40.304 --> 00:53:44.527
If you are deprived of happiness, happiness will be the ultimate value for you.

00:53:44.527 --> 00:53:51.100
Whatever youre deprived of, at that moment you think this is the highest thing,

00:53:51.100 --> 00:53:59.103
but even if that happens people will realize, after it happens that it is not so.

00:53:59.103 --> 00:54:03.361
So right now in the western world having been through this industrial revolution,

00:54:03.361 --> 00:54:10.533
for the first time women moving out of the house and that generation

00:54:10.533 --> 00:54:13.625
which could not today women are moving out of the house, but

00:54:13.625 --> 00:54:17.441
they are able to make the necessary arrangements and man has probably

00:54:17.441 --> 00:54:20.434
adjusted to fill in certain gaps that she left and maybe

00:54:20.434 --> 00:54:23.516
things are getting little better but that generation when suddenly

00:54:23.516 --> 00:54:28.682
the changes happened, a whole generation of children went without

00:54:28.682 --> 00:54:34.794
much expression of love towards them, because it's a

00:54:34.794 --> 00:54:38.784
it's a flux that people were still trying to come to terms with how to handle this.

00:54:38.784 --> 00:54:42.176
Always it was assured the woman of the house will be there and

00:54:42.176 --> 00:54:45.562
shell love the children and this is it; but once that changed,

00:54:45.562 --> 00:54:49.598
before we could adjust to that, one generation or two generations of people

00:54:49.598 --> 00:54:53.395
suffered from lack of attention and lack of love and this kind of things.

00:54:53.395 --> 00:54:57.058
Today various things are happening. As there is maternity leave,

00:54:57.058 --> 00:55:00.384
there is paternity leave, the man will stay back and take care of the child

00:55:00.384 --> 00:55:04.387
and attitudes have changed, various things in the world have changed

00:55:04.387 --> 00:55:08.275
and access to various things have changed,

00:55:08.275 --> 00:55:13.923
various facilities have come up in the social structure to cater to these things, otherwise that

00:55:13.923 --> 00:55:19.327
one or two generations in many ways were very much deprived of love.

00:55:19.327 --> 00:55:24.093
Because of that I think there is so much talk about love;

00:55:24.093 --> 00:55:29.996
Im not trying to demean love. Love is a very essential ingredient in your life.

00:55:29.996 --> 00:55:34.404
I would like you to look at it this way. You are looking for pleasantness

00:55:34.404 --> 00:55:41.754
essentially in your life. Pleasantness means, if your body becomes pleasant

00:55:41.754 --> 00:55:47.905
we normally call it health, if it becomes very pleasant it becomes pleasure.

00:55:47.905 --> 00:55:51.052
If your mind becomes pleasant we call it peace,

00:55:51.052 --> 00:55:56.260
if it becomes very pleasant we call it joy.

00:55:56.260 --> 00:55:59.756
If your emotions become pleasant we call it love,

00:55:59.756 --> 00:56:02.573
if it becomes very pleasant we call it compassion.

00:56:02.573 --> 00:56:06.707
If your life energies become pleasant we call this bliss,

00:56:06.707 --> 00:56:09.181
if it becomes very pleasant we call it ecstasy.

00:56:09.181 --> 00:56:15.562
If your external situations become pleasant we call it success.

00:56:15.562 --> 00:56:20.943
So this is all the human being is looking for. So only if emotionally

00:56:20.943 --> 00:56:26.312
he is in a sweet place which is what love is - it's human emotions turning sweet

00:56:26.312 --> 00:56:30.216
either towards somebody or just like that, whichever way it happens.

00:56:30.216 --> 00:56:34.988
Now just your emotions being sweet, is it enough for you?

00:56:34.988 --> 00:56:39.382
Dont you need health, dont you need well-being, dont you need food,

00:56:39.382 --> 00:56:42.732
dont you need peacefulness, dont you need competence, dont you need capability?

00:56:42.732 --> 00:56:47.387
If you have lot of love and you become incompetent,

00:56:47.387 --> 00:56:54.164
which happens to lots of people unfortunately,

00:56:54.164 --> 00:56:58.844
then I dont think people will enjoy that or relish that.

00:56:58.844 --> 00:57:02.131
So this talk about love being the core of the universe,

00:57:02.131 --> 00:57:09.262
all this is simply coming from a certain state of deprivation within oneself.

00:57:09.262 --> 00:57:12.880
People who have grown up in traditional families in India,

00:57:12.880 --> 00:57:16.372
we never think of love, because we didnt have to think.

00:57:16.372 --> 00:57:20.286
Nobody told us they love us. My mother never ever told me that

00:57:20.286 --> 00:57:24.249
she loves me nor did that question arise whether she loves me or not.

00:57:24.249 --> 00:57:29.220
I did not even realize that I need to be loved because the whole atmosphere

00:57:29.220 --> 00:57:34.113
was such that there was Such a question never arose in me,

00:57:34.113 --> 00:57:36.284
Do I need to be loved by somebody,

00:57:36.284 --> 00:57:40.549
because they set such an atmosphere, such thoughts never came to us.

00:57:40.549 --> 00:57:45.731
Its just like - only if there is poverty in the house and theres not enough food,

00:57:45.731 --> 00:57:48.791
probably you will think so much about food and how to get it.

00:57:48.791 --> 00:57:51.250
When it's there every day you dont think about it,

00:57:51.250 --> 00:57:53.938
you dont think about making an arrangement for it.

00:57:53.938 --> 00:57:57.837
Similarly when love is simply there all around you in every possible way,

00:57:57.837 --> 00:58:00.728
you never even thought that it is some it's a

00:58:00.728 --> 00:58:03.245
something that has to be bought from somewhere or

00:58:03.245 --> 00:58:05.682
gotten from somewhere, you know.

00:58:05.682 --> 00:58:10.631
So these things are coming from certain levels of deprivation.

00:58:10.631 --> 00:58:16.887
Love is the sweetest way to be for a human being, it's a good way to be,

00:58:16.887 --> 00:58:20.486
its a wonderful way to be, but at the same time it's not necessary

00:58:20.486 --> 00:58:24.961
to exaggerate this beyond limitation. Now you are talking about

00:58:24.961 --> 00:58:28.630
the questioner is talking about love and truth.

00:58:28.630 --> 00:58:31.504
I don't know what kind of truth youre talking about.

00:58:31.504 --> 00:58:36.866
If youre talking about the ultimate nature of the truth, it is universality,

00:58:36.866 --> 00:58:42.099
it is absolute inclusiveness. Love means  to love you need two.

00:58:42.099 --> 00:58:46.953
Youre trying to include with love, moments of inclusion will happen

00:58:46.953 --> 00:58:51.495
and then you fall apart. No lovers anywhere have found continuous

00:58:51.495 --> 00:58:55.562
state of inclusiveness. Moments of inclusiveness and then falling apart,

00:58:55.562 --> 00:58:59.695
moments of inclusiveness then falling apart; this is how people experience it.

00:58:59.695 --> 00:59:04.474
So ultimate truth is absolute state of inclusiveness, which you can

00:59:04.474 --> 00:59:08.677
which cannot be termed as love. Love is an effort in that direction.

00:59:08.677 --> 00:59:12.550
So is joy, so is peacefulness; when youre peaceful

00:59:12.550 --> 00:59:16.831
you are actually one with everything. When youre joyful youre actually

00:59:16.831 --> 00:59:20.713
when you sit and laugh with each other, aren't you in some way bonded as one?

00:59:20.713 --> 00:59:25.293
Thats why the drinking buddies going on too well.

00:59:25.293 --> 00:59:32.822
(Shekar Kapoor): Okay. Question from me before I go  thats to me 

00:59:32.822 --> 00:59:35.960
Satyam, Shivam, Sundaram, what does that really mean?

00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:39.695
(Sadhguru): The movie is already made, you can't

00:59:39.695 --> 00:59:41.848
(Shekar Kapoor): Oh, come on.

00:59:41.848 --> 00:59:44.251
(Sadhguru): It's already a done thing, Shekhar.

00:59:44.251 --> 00:59:45.950
(Shekar Kapoor): I know, I know.

00:59:45.950 --> 00:59:47.440
(Sadhguru): Another Kapur.

00:59:47.440 --> 00:59:52.483
(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah, okay. Okay. All right, okay. Ill come back to that one.

00:59:52.483 --> 00:59:56.832
Yeah. Oh I just want to Many Isha practitioner around the world

00:59:56.832 --> 00:59:59.258
have benefited from the practices and being with Sadhguru.

00:59:59.258 --> 01:00:03.029
Would you care to share your experience and the impact it has had

01:00:03.029 --> 01:00:06.728
on you and your work? What message would you convey to budding

01:00:06.728 --> 01:00:08.755
young directors around the world?

01:00:08.755 --> 01:00:16.081
I am not Sadhgurus best disciple - no Im his best disciple;

01:00:16.081 --> 01:00:20.407
Im not his most disciplined disciple. All I would say is that

01:00:20.407 --> 01:00:23.695
if I follow the practices, a little more discipline

01:00:23.695 --> 01:00:27.333
come on why you putting me in this because I have to say

01:00:27.333 --> 01:00:29.921
in front of him and I cannot say a lie, I have to tell the truth and

01:00:29.921 --> 01:00:33.561
here I am getting caught in this whirlwind. So Ill take the last part.

01:00:33.561 --> 01:00:36.700
What message would you like to convey to the other directors?

01:00:36.700 --> 01:00:40.204
Well, fantastic! You have to do this! I mean theres no doubt

01:00:40.204 --> 01:00:44.226
that the practices that are there Ive seen my friends benefit from it.

01:00:44.226 --> 01:00:51.670
Ive seen Okay, so heres what Ill say. Ive seen a sense of giving and

01:00:51.670 --> 01:00:56.276
a sense of service where what the people that have done the practice

01:00:56.276 --> 01:01:02.315
I find that in their work, they give to the work more passionately and more completely

01:01:02.315 --> 01:01:07.647
and with less stress and prejudice and less conflict

01:01:07.647 --> 01:01:10.614
than anybody else and Ive always wondered at that.

01:01:10.614 --> 01:01:15.469
Thats one of the most amazing experiences I have when I go to Isha

01:01:15.469 --> 01:01:20.890
is the people whove done the practice or are doing the practice,

01:01:20.890 --> 01:01:24.291
their attitudes to what they do. It doesnt matter, they dont have

01:01:24.291 --> 01:01:27.441
to do anything as big as filmmaking and I sometimes wonder

01:01:27.441 --> 01:01:34.629
if I bring that to my filmmaking, that sense of absolute giving, passion,

01:01:34.629 --> 01:01:40.015
compassion, humility to my filmmaking, Id probably make a lot more films.

01:01:40.015 --> 01:01:46.137
I would get into less conflict, I would be less afraid of the failure of the film;

01:01:46.137 --> 01:01:49.194
now Im talking to all those young directors out there;

01:01:49.194 --> 01:01:51.708
I make many, many more films. I Yeah,

01:01:51.708 --> 01:01:57.378
Im a little embarrassed here because Im not the most disciplined disciple of Isha,

01:01:57.378 --> 01:02:07.344
sort of -sorry. Next question. Yeah, okay.

01:02:07.344 --> 01:02:11.199
Intensity Theres a question for you, Sadhguru; thank you very much,

01:02:11.199 --> 01:02:18.370
thank God for that - on intensity. Spirituality is to be perceived with intensity.

01:02:18.370 --> 01:02:22.819
Im very intense in many things but Im not always sure if the thing

01:02:22.819 --> 01:02:27.585
Im pursuing indeed leads to further my spirituality or my ego.

01:02:27.585 --> 01:02:32.741
Oh, yeah. It leads to further my spirituality or my ego?

01:02:32.741 --> 01:02:37.629
How do I let myself in the path I am pursuing intensely is wrong?

01:02:37.629 --> 01:02:39.275
How do I do it?

01:02:39.275 --> 01:02:41.859
(Sadhguru): No, I don't know where he got this,

01:02:41.859 --> 01:02:45.354
but you should not pursue anything intensely. It is

01:02:45.354 --> 01:02:46.935
(Shekar Kapoor): Nothing.

01:02:46.935 --> 01:02:50.079
(Sadhguru): No. There is no need to pursue anything intensely.

01:02:50.079 --> 01:02:57.840
When you say I am pursuing something intensely, probably what youre trying to say is Im pursuing something madly.

01:02:57.840 --> 01:03:01.914
You should be intense. You must see how to raise the intensity of your being,

01:03:01.914 --> 01:03:07.010
your mind, your way of existence. If you make this very intense,

01:03:07.010 --> 01:03:10.080
anything that you do will be naturally intense,

01:03:10.080 --> 01:03:13.680
but if you try to do something intense 

01:03:13.680 --> 01:03:16.680
one thing is you may end up doing it senselessly,

01:03:16.680 --> 01:03:21.116
another thing is you will exhaust yourself and expend yourself too quickly.

01:03:21.116 --> 01:03:25.948
If you try to do anything intensely, you will expend yourself too quickly.

01:03:25.948 --> 01:03:28.911
There is no need to do anything intensely but you must make

01:03:28.911 --> 01:03:34.723
this one absolutely intense to the life process. If that is so, every action that you do,

01:03:34.723 --> 01:03:41.093
there will be ease and intensity at the same time. Without ease, if intensity comes,

01:03:41.093 --> 01:03:43.281
you will burn yourself out.

01:03:43.281 --> 01:03:48.983
(Shekar Kapoor): Thats fascinating. Im putting that right now to my filmmaking and

01:03:48.983 --> 01:03:51.916
Im trying to evaluate how that works. I agree with you,

01:03:51.916 --> 01:03:53.684
you have to be very intense.

01:03:53.684 --> 01:03:57.480
(Sadhguru): You as a person should become very intense.

01:03:57.480 --> 01:04:00.725
You dont have to pursue something intensely.

01:04:00.725 --> 01:04:09.195
(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah that makes a lot of sense. So does everything you say but

01:04:09.195 --> 01:04:13.210
Question for Shekhar  if there is a documentary on Sadhguru,

01:04:13.210 --> 01:04:14.445
will you direct it?

01:04:14.445 --> 01:04:15.738
(Sadhguru): Who is this?

01:04:15.738 --> 01:04:19.430
(Shekar Kapoor): From Preeti in Mumbai. Of course I will direct it,

01:04:19.430 --> 01:04:22.692
but somebody, you know, somebody sitting right next to me

01:04:22.692 --> 01:04:25.433
has to agree to subject himself to the documentary.

01:04:25.433 --> 01:04:28.321
Come on, its difficult enough to get him here and answer a few questions,

01:04:28.321 --> 01:04:30.680
what are you talking about? Of course I will.

01:04:30.680 --> 01:04:34.454
Of course I will, but where do you end it? Ah, so Preeti,

01:04:34.454 --> 01:04:36.415
if youre there, where do you end the documentary?

01:04:36.415 --> 01:04:39.120
If somebody could write the end of the documentary for me,

01:04:39.120 --> 01:04:41.315
I promise Im going to make it, but I promise

01:04:41.315 --> 01:04:45.280
you will not be able to write the end right now.

01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:49.832
So that was my question; that was an easy one. Let me find one.

01:04:54.262 --> 01:05:01.094
Okay. There are so many gurus, so many methods,

01:05:01.094 --> 01:05:04.731
so many followers but so few realized beings.

01:05:04.731 --> 01:05:10.121
Is the path very tough or our pursuit weak?

01:05:10.121 --> 01:05:15.253
It's from Usha Sonam. So many gurus, so many methods, so many followers,

01:05:15.253 --> 01:05:21.621
but so few realized beings - is the path very tough or just our pursuit thats weak?

01:05:27.831 --> 01:05:34.354
(Sadhguru) I would disagree with the question, that is, there aren't so many gurus 

01:05:34.354 --> 01:05:38.834
there are scholars, there are teachers, there are charlatans,

01:05:38.834 --> 01:05:45.306
there are god-men but therere not too many gurus, theyre very few,

01:05:45.306 --> 01:05:51.501
and are there very few realized beings? Not true; there are many, many realized beings.

01:05:51.501 --> 01:05:56.597
It is just that they dont carry a banner around themselves that they are realized.

01:05:56.597 --> 01:06:02.317
They are not that gross and they may not fit into your idea of

01:06:02.317 --> 01:06:06.601
what a realized being is. They may not fit into your ideas of

01:06:06.601 --> 01:06:12.019
what realized being is because your ideas have nothing to do with realization.

01:06:12.019 --> 01:06:17.159
So definitely the number of gurus are not enough, they have dwindled down 

01:06:17.159 --> 01:06:22.892
maybe there are any number claiming; anybody who reads one chapter of Gita,

01:06:22.892 --> 01:06:27.363
claims himself to be a guru without any knowledge about himself, okay?

01:06:27.363 --> 01:06:30.828
Anybody who reads half a book can become a guru, thats a different thing.

01:06:30.828 --> 01:06:33.662
Anybody who can Especially in the western world

01:06:33.662 --> 01:06:36.494
if you can chant two mantras you can become a guru, okay?

01:06:36.494 --> 01:06:40.227
(Shekar Kapoor): Thank you; I know what to do when my film flops now.

01:06:40.227 --> 01:06:45.441
(Sadhguru): Yes; you just have to stop cutting your beard and learn a couple of mantras.

01:06:45.441 --> 01:06:48.686
(Shekar Kapoor): Thank you, Sadhguru. Ill carry your books

01:06:48.686 --> 01:06:54.354
(Sadhguru): So at the same time there are any number of realized beings.

01:06:54.354 --> 01:06:58.684
There are any number with us; different levels of realization.

01:06:58.684 --> 01:07:03.840
It is just that they will not carry a banner on their head that they are realized.

01:07:03.840 --> 01:07:07.508
They are in fantastic states of experience and perception,

01:07:07.508 --> 01:07:13.568
but theres no need to carry a banner and

01:07:13.568 --> 01:07:19.262
as I said they may not fit into your ideas because that is realization.

01:07:19.262 --> 01:07:24.566
Every time a guru comes he naturally faces persecution at some point or the other

01:07:24.566 --> 01:07:30.666
simply because he doesnt fit into your ideas of what a realized being should be

01:07:30.666 --> 01:07:33.028
because your ideas have been formed

01:07:33.028 --> 01:07:37.635
by the one who had come yesterday. The yesterday one also you

01:07:37.635 --> 01:07:42.320
you persecuted him because he did not match with the day-before-yesterday guru.

01:07:42.320 --> 01:07:45.673
So the today one also youre having the same problems.

01:07:45.673 --> 01:07:50.324
So now once this has become accepted, youre looking for other realized beings.

01:07:50.324 --> 01:07:54.228
You think they will be just like me. People who are around me

01:07:54.228 --> 01:07:57.481
in case theyre realized, you believe theyll be just like me?

01:07:57.481 --> 01:08:00.618
Not at all; that is not the quali Realization is not about

01:08:00.618 --> 01:08:07.434
making carbon copies; realization is like like a garden-full of flowers.

01:08:07.434 --> 01:08:11.203
There is rose flower, there is a lotus, there is a jasmine,

01:08:11.203 --> 01:08:17.756
there is one tiny tumbe which is the dearest to Shiva, you know, tiny little flower.

01:08:17.756 --> 01:08:23.233
So you think you see a lotus flower and you accept that as realized.

01:08:23.233 --> 01:08:28.728
See, you have no way to judge; for example, let me put myself into the example.

01:08:28.728 --> 01:08:33.619
You do not know whether I am realized or not. There is no way for you know.

01:08:33.619 --> 01:08:37.953
So you should not even believe that I am realized or not realized.

01:08:37.953 --> 01:08:44.049
You just have to see whether being with me is useful for your growth or not.

01:08:44.049 --> 01:08:47.881
If it is, hang around, what does it matter whether I am realized or not?

01:08:47.881 --> 01:08:51.240
Because you will not know, how will you judge;

01:08:51.240 --> 01:08:55.229
how will you judge of a dimension that you do not even know,

01:08:55.229 --> 01:08:59.681
you have not even tasted? So there is no need to make up your mind

01:08:59.681 --> 01:09:04.265
whether I am realized or not. Whether I am useful to you or not, that's all.

01:09:04.265 --> 01:09:08.981
(Shekar Kapoor): Okay. People often ask me because Im a filmmaker and

01:09:08.981 --> 01:09:13.954
like science fiction, and you always read about the idea of looking for

01:09:13.954 --> 01:09:18.480
life outside earth. So I keep saying were not looking for life,

01:09:18.480 --> 01:09:21.345
were looking for clones. We look around ourselves and

01:09:21.345 --> 01:09:25.434
well find life all around us. Then you ask them, describe and then they say

01:09:25.434 --> 01:09:29.635
(Sadhguru): Dont we already have enough clowns; do we want to clown them

01:09:29.635 --> 01:09:31.699
clone them? You want to clone them also?

01:09:31.699 --> 01:09:36.538
(Shekar Kapoor): Yeah, were just looking for ourselves, were not looking for intelligence.

01:09:36.538 --> 01:09:44.572
Okay. Before we end Oh, that was short? Okay, before we end;

01:09:44.572 --> 01:09:48.692
any last comments from Sadhguru and Shekhar? My last comments are about

01:09:48.692 --> 01:09:55.589
Shekar Kapoor): No. I just made them. I made my comments about us being

01:09:55.589 --> 01:10:00.898
the arrogance of our individuality. It's So let me ask you a last question.

01:10:00.898 --> 01:10:05.589
Let me ask the last question to you and thats the last comment is

01:10:05.589 --> 01:10:09.044
What is individuality?

01:10:15.004 --> 01:10:18.204
(Sadhguru): It is something that comes out of your instinct of

01:10:18.204 --> 01:10:23.460
for self-preservation because unless you are

01:10:23.460 --> 01:10:27.364
you develop a certain individuality you cannot protect yourself,

01:10:27.364 --> 01:10:34.542
you cannot preserve yourself. So this individuality gets built up initially

01:10:34.542 --> 01:10:41.427
for physical survival, after some time due to misunderstanding of life

01:10:41.427 --> 01:10:46.961
or due to a very strong identification with the individual body.

01:10:46.961 --> 01:10:51.640
See the bodies are individual - this is one body, that is another body.

01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:55.037
Whatever you do this is a separate body, thats a separate body.

01:10:55.037 --> 01:10:59.650
This is one organism, thats another organism, though it is functioning

01:10:59.650 --> 01:11:03.417
in tandem with the larger organism of the planet and the solar system

01:11:03.417 --> 01:11:08.165
and the cosmos which nobody can deny. Today modern science can prove it

01:11:08.165 --> 01:11:12.043
to you how every cell and every atom in your body is transacting with

01:11:12.043 --> 01:11:15.344
everything else for it to exist right now the way it is.

01:11:15.344 --> 01:11:21.553
So the individuality is formed essentially for self-preservation.

01:11:21.553 --> 01:11:24.987
When we come to self-preservation the only thing that needs

01:11:24.987 --> 01:11:29.749
preservation in you is your physical body. Physical body has to be preserved.

01:11:29.749 --> 01:11:35.091
Right now if I trample upon every idea you have in your head, next moment

01:11:35.091 --> 01:11:41.417
you can come up with totally brand new ideas, but if I trample upon

01:11:41.417 --> 01:11:45.124
one idea of yours you could feel threatened because you feel

01:11:45.124 --> 01:11:51.990
your survival is being attacked. Your survival is never in question except

01:11:51.990 --> 01:11:57.349
with the physical body. If I trample upon every emotion you have,

01:11:57.349 --> 01:12:00.880
every idea you have, your belief systems, your ideologies, everything,

01:12:00.880 --> 01:12:04.436
if I beat it down right now actually your intelligence is

01:12:04.436 --> 01:12:08.249
capable of coming up with something totally new the next moment,

01:12:08.249 --> 01:12:11.884
but because you cling to this, the next one will never happen.

01:12:11.884 --> 01:12:17.368
People cling to the stronger they cling to it, the less creative and less

01:12:17.368 --> 01:12:20.569
concretized they become in their individuality.

01:12:20.569 --> 01:12:25.999
Individual essentially means - it comes from the word indivisible,

01:12:25.999 --> 01:12:31.787
that is youre not further divisible, but now in your search for survival 

01:12:31.787 --> 01:12:35.623
of psychological survival and emotional survival 

01:12:35.623 --> 01:12:37.968
people make themselves into many things.

01:12:37.968 --> 01:12:43.875
Right now already in the question itself there was a thing about Is it my ego,

01:12:43.875 --> 01:12:47.458
is it my this  where is your ego? There is no such thing,

01:12:47.458 --> 01:12:51.025
it's just a nasty part of you which you want to label it as Mr. Ego, you know.

01:12:51.025 --> 01:12:56.340
Some aspect of you is nasty; you dont want to see that I am nasty,

01:12:56.340 --> 01:13:01.787
you say, It's my ego. Sometimes youre pleasant, sometimes youre unpleasant 

01:13:01.787 --> 01:13:05.017
you dont even want to come to terms with that.

01:13:05.017 --> 01:13:10.320
So individual means youre not further divisible. Is there only one person in this body

01:13:10.320 --> 01:13:20.187
or two? If there is two, either you need - you know youre schizophrenic 

01:13:20.187 --> 01:13:26.340
you need a psychiatric, or maybe you need an exorcist. Two cannot be there,

01:13:26.340 --> 01:13:29.732
theres only one; this is indivisible, this is just one being.

01:13:29.732 --> 01:13:38.622
So the individuality is a disease, individual is a beautiful thing,

01:13:38.622 --> 01:13:42.175
its a compact organism, but individuality or

01:13:42.175 --> 01:13:45.980
individualism is a kind of a disease that has grown in the world.

01:13:45.980 --> 01:13:51.340
Its all about exclusiveness. Every Everything you see today in the world,

01:13:51.340 --> 01:13:54.593
people are promoting exclusiveness and then they are wondering

01:13:54.593 --> 01:14:00.783
why there is conflict. If you promote exclusiveness, how can there be no conflict?

01:14:00.783 --> 01:14:04.994
There can only be conflict, isn't it?

01:14:04.994 --> 01:14:08.204
Okay, thank you Sadhguru. Thank you very much

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