The interspecies internet? An idea in progress
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0:00 - 0:02Diana Reiss: You may think you're looking
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0:02 - 0:06through a window at a dolphin spinning playfully,
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0:06 - 0:09but what you're actually looking through
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0:09 - 0:11is a two-way mirror at a dolphin
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0:11 - 0:14looking at itself spinning playfully.
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0:14 - 0:16This is a dolphin that is self-aware.
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0:16 - 0:18This dolphin has self-awareness.
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0:18 - 0:20It's a young dolphin named Bayley.
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0:20 - 0:23I've been very interested in understanding the nature
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0:23 - 0:27of the intelligence of dolphins for the past 30 years.
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0:27 - 0:30How do we explore intelligence in this animal
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0:30 - 0:31that's so different from us?
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0:31 - 0:34And what I've used is a very simple research tool,
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0:34 - 0:37a mirror, and we've gained great information,
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0:37 - 0:40reflections of these animal minds.
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0:40 - 0:44Dolphins aren't the only animals, the only non-human animals,
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0:44 - 0:46to show mirror self-recognition.
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0:46 - 0:49We used to think this was a uniquely human ability,
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0:49 - 0:52but we learned that the great apes, our closest relatives,
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0:52 - 0:54also show this ability.
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0:54 - 0:56Then we showed it in dolphins,
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0:56 - 0:58and then later in elephants.
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0:58 - 1:00We did this work in my lab with the dolphins and elephants,
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1:00 - 1:03and it's been recently shown in the magpie.
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1:03 - 1:06Now, it's interesting, because we've embraced
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1:06 - 1:10this Darwinian view of a continuity in physical evolution,
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1:10 - 1:11this physical continuity.
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1:11 - 1:15But we've been much more reticent, much slower
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1:15 - 1:18at recognizing this continuity in cognition,
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1:18 - 1:21in emotion, in consciousness in other animals.
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1:21 - 1:24Other animals are conscious.
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1:24 - 1:27They're emotional. They're aware.
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1:27 - 1:30There have been multitudes of studies with many species
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1:30 - 1:34over the years that have given us exquisite evidence
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1:34 - 1:37for thinking and consciousness in other animals,
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1:37 - 1:40other animals that are quite different than we are in form.
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1:40 - 1:43We are not alone.
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1:43 - 1:47We are not alone in these abilities.
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1:47 - 1:50And I hope, and one of my biggest dreams,
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1:50 - 1:53is that, with our growing awareness
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1:53 - 1:55about the consciousness of others
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1:55 - 1:57and our relationship with the rest of the animal world,
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1:57 - 2:00that we'll give them the respect and protection
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2:00 - 2:01that they deserve.
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2:01 - 2:03So that's a wish I'm throwing out here for everybody,
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2:03 - 2:07and I hope I can really engage you in this idea.
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2:07 - 2:09Now, I want to return to dolphins,
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2:09 - 2:11because these are the animals that I feel like
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2:11 - 2:14I've been working up closely and personal with
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2:14 - 2:15for over 30 years.
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2:15 - 2:17And these are real personalities.
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2:17 - 2:20They are not persons, but they're personalities
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2:20 - 2:22in every sense of the word.
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2:22 - 2:25And you can't get more alien than the dolphin.
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2:25 - 2:27They are very different from us in body form.
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2:27 - 2:30They're radically different. They come from a radically different environment.
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2:30 - 2:35In fact, we're separated by 95 million years
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2:35 - 2:37of divergent evolution.
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2:37 - 2:39Look at this body.
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2:39 - 2:42And in every sense of making a pun here,
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2:42 - 2:47these are true non-terrestrials.
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2:47 - 2:50I wondered how we might interface with these animals.
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2:50 - 2:53In the 1980s, I developed an underwater keyboard.
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2:53 - 2:56This was a custom-made touch-screen keyboard.
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2:56 - 2:59What I wanted to do was give the dolphins choice and control.
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2:59 - 3:01These are big brains, highly social animals,
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3:01 - 3:04and I thought, well, if we give them choice and control,
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3:04 - 3:06if they can hit a symbol on this keyboard --
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3:06 - 3:09and by the way, it was interfaced by fiber optic cables
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3:09 - 3:12from Hewlett-Packard with an Apple II computer.
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3:12 - 3:14This seems prehistoric now,
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3:14 - 3:16but this was where we were with technology.
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3:16 - 3:19So the dolphins could hit a key, a symbol,
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3:19 - 3:21they heard a computer-generated whistle,
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3:21 - 3:23and they got an object or activity.
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3:23 - 3:24Now here's a little video.
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3:24 - 3:27This is Delphi and Pan, and you're going to see Delphi
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3:27 - 3:31hitting a key, he hears a computer-generated whistle -- (Whistle) --
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3:31 - 3:35and gets a ball, so they can actually ask for things they want.
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3:35 - 3:39What was remarkable is, they explored this keyboard
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3:39 - 3:42on their own. There was no intervention on our part.
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3:42 - 3:44They explored the keyboard. They played around with it.
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3:44 - 3:46They figured out how it worked.
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3:46 - 3:48And they started to quickly imitate the sounds
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3:48 - 3:51they were hearing on the keyboard.
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3:51 - 3:53They imitated on their own.
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3:53 - 3:55Beyond that, though, they started learning
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3:55 - 3:58associations between the symbols, the sounds
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3:58 - 4:01and the objects.
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4:01 - 4:04What we saw was self-organized learning,
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4:04 - 4:07and now I'm imagining, what can we do
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4:07 - 4:09with new technologies?
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4:09 - 4:12How can we create interfaces, new windows into
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4:12 - 4:17the minds of animals, with the technologies that exist today?
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4:17 - 4:20So I was thinking about this, and then, one day,
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4:20 - 4:24I got a call from Peter.
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4:26 - 4:28Peter Gabriel: I make noises for a living.
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4:28 - 4:30On a good day, it's music,
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4:30 - 4:32and I want to talk a little bit about
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4:32 - 4:36the most amazing music-making experience I ever had.
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4:36 - 4:39I'm a farm boy. I grew up surrounded by animals,
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4:39 - 4:41and I would look in these eyes and wonder
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4:41 - 4:43what was going on there?
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4:43 - 4:45So as an adult, when I started to read about
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4:45 - 4:48the amazing breakthroughs with Penny Patterson and Koko,
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4:48 - 4:52with Sue Savage-Rumbaugh and Kanzi, Panbanisha,
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4:52 - 4:54Irene Pepperberg, Alex the parrot,
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4:54 - 4:57I got all excited.
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4:57 - 4:58What was amazing to me also
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4:58 - 5:02was they seemed a lot more adept
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5:02 - 5:05at getting a handle on our language
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5:05 - 5:09than we were on getting a handle on theirs.
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5:09 - 5:13I work with a lot of musicians from around the world,
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5:13 - 5:16and often we don't have any common language at all,
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5:16 - 5:20but we sit down behind our instruments,
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5:20 - 5:23and suddenly there's a way for us to connect and emote.
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5:23 - 5:26So I started cold-calling, and eventually got through
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5:26 - 5:28to Sue Savage-Rumbaugh,
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5:28 - 5:30and she invited me down.
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5:30 - 5:34I went down, and the bonobos
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5:34 - 5:37had had access to percussion instruments,
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5:37 - 5:40musical toys, but never before to a keyboard.
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5:40 - 5:42At first they did what infants do,
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5:42 - 5:44just bashed it with their fists,
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5:44 - 5:47and then I asked, through Sue,
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5:47 - 5:51if Panbanisha could try with one finger only.
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5:51 - 5:56Sue Savage-Rumbaugh: Can you play a grooming song?
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5:56 - 5:58I want to hear a grooming song.
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5:58 - 6:02Play a real quiet grooming song.
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6:04 - 6:08PG: So groom was the subject of the piece.
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6:08 - 6:13(Music)
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6:25 - 6:29So I'm just behind, jamming,
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6:29 - 6:34yeah, this is what we started with.
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6:34 - 6:37Sue's encouraging her to continue a little more.
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6:37 - 6:42(Music)
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7:26 - 7:31She discovers a note she likes,
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7:31 - 7:35finds the octave.
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7:35 - 7:40She'd never sat at a keyboard before.
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7:46 - 7:50Nice triplets.
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8:00 - 8:04SSR: You did good. That was very good.
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8:04 - 8:05PG: She hit good.
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8:05 - 8:10(Applause)
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8:10 - 8:15So that night, we began to dream,
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8:15 - 8:17and we thought, perhaps the most amazing tool
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8:17 - 8:20that man's created is the Internet,
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8:20 - 8:23and what would happen if we could somehow
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8:23 - 8:25find new interfaces,
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8:25 - 8:29visual-audio interfaces that would allow
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8:29 - 8:31these remarkable sentient beings
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8:31 - 8:34that we share the planet with access?
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8:34 - 8:38And Sue Savage-Rumbaugh got excited about that,
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8:38 - 8:40called her friend Steve Woodruff,
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8:40 - 8:43and we began hustling all sorts of people
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8:43 - 8:46whose work related or was inspiring,
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8:46 - 8:48which led us to Diana,
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8:48 - 8:51and led us to Neil.
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8:51 - 8:53Neil Gershenfeld: Thanks, Peter.
PG: Thank you. -
8:53 - 8:57(Applause)
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8:57 - 8:59NG: So Peter approached me.
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8:59 - 9:01I lost it when I saw that clip.
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9:01 - 9:05He approached me with a vision of doing these things
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9:05 - 9:06not for people, for animals.
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9:06 - 9:09And then I was struck in the history of the Internet.
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9:09 - 9:13This is what the Internet looked like when it was born
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9:13 - 9:15and you can call that the Internet
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9:15 - 9:17of middle-aged white men,
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9:17 - 9:18mostly middle-aged white men.
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9:18 - 9:20Vint Cerf: (Laughs)
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9:20 - 9:23(Laughter)
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9:23 - 9:25NG: Speaking as one.
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9:25 - 9:28Then, when I first came to TED,
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9:28 - 9:30which was where I met Peter, I showed this.
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9:30 - 9:32This is a $1 web server,
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9:32 - 9:35and at the time that was radical.
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9:35 - 9:39And the possibility of making a web server for a dollar
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9:39 - 9:42grew into what became known as the Internet of Things,
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9:42 - 9:45which is literally an industry now with tremendous implications
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9:45 - 9:48for health care, energy efficiency.
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9:48 - 9:49And we were happy with ourselves.
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9:49 - 9:51And then when Peter showed me that,
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9:51 - 9:52I realized we had missed something,
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9:52 - 9:55which is the rest of the planet.
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9:55 - 9:57So we started up this interspecies Internet project.
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9:57 - 9:59Now we started talking with TED
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9:59 - 10:01about how you bring dolphins and great apes and elephants
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10:01 - 10:04to TED, and we realized that wouldn't work.
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10:04 - 10:06So we're going to bring you to them.
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10:06 - 10:09So if we could switch to the audio from this computer,
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10:09 - 10:12we've been video conferencing with cognitive animals,
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10:12 - 10:13and we're going to have each of them
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10:13 - 10:15just briefly introduce them.
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10:15 - 10:17And so if we could also have this up, great.
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10:17 - 10:19So the first site we're going to meet
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10:19 - 10:22is Cameron Park Zoo in Waco, with orangutans.
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10:22 - 10:25In the daytime they live outside. It's nighttime there now.
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10:25 - 10:28So can you please go ahead?
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10:28 - 10:31Terri Cox: Hi, I'm Terri Cox
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10:31 - 10:33with the Cameron Park Zoo in Waco, Texas,
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10:33 - 10:37and with me I have KeraJaan and Mei,
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10:37 - 10:39two of our Bornean orangutans.
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10:39 - 10:44During the day, they have a beautiful, large outdoor habitat,
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10:44 - 10:47and at night, they come into this habitat,
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10:47 - 10:48into their night quarters,
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10:48 - 10:50where they can have a climate-controlled
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10:50 - 10:52and secure environment to sleep in.
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10:52 - 10:57We participate in the Apps for Apes program
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10:57 - 11:00Orangutan Outreach, and we use iPads
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11:00 - 11:02to help stimulate and enrich the animals,
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11:02 - 11:04and also help raise awareness
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11:04 - 11:06for these critically endangered animals.
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11:06 - 11:11And they share 97 percent of our DNA
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11:11 - 11:12and are incredibly intelligent,
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11:12 - 11:16so it's so exciting to think of all the opportunities
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11:16 - 11:19that we have via technology and the Internet
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11:19 - 11:23to really enrich their lives and open up their world.
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11:23 - 11:25We're really excited about the possibility
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11:25 - 11:27of an interspecies Internet,
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11:27 - 11:31and K.J. has been enjoying the conference very much.
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11:31 - 11:33NG: That's great. When we were rehearsing last night,
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11:33 - 11:35he had fun watching the elephants.
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11:35 - 11:39Next user group are the dolphins at the National Aquarium.
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11:39 - 11:41Please go ahead.
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11:41 - 11:42Allison Ginsburg: Good evening.
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11:42 - 11:43Well, my name is Allison Ginsburg,
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11:43 - 11:46and we're live in Baltimore at the National Aquarium.
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11:46 - 11:50Joining me are three of our eight Atlantic bottlenose dolphins:
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11:50 - 11:5320-year-old Chesapeake, who was our first dolphin born here,
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11:53 - 11:56her four-year-old daughter Bayley,
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11:56 - 12:00and her half sister, 11-year-old Maya.
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12:00 - 12:01Now, here at the National Aquarium
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12:01 - 12:04we are committed to excellence in animal care,
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12:04 - 12:07to research, and to conservation.
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12:07 - 12:10The dolphins are pretty intrigued as to what's going on here tonight.
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12:10 - 12:12They're not really used to having cameras here
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12:12 - 12:14at 8 o'clock at night.
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12:14 - 12:16In addition, we are very committed to doing
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12:16 - 12:18different types of research.
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12:18 - 12:21As Diana mentioned, our animals are involved
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12:21 - 12:24in many different research studies.
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12:34 - 12:38NG: Those are for you.
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12:38 - 12:40Okay, that's great, thank you.
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12:40 - 12:43And the third user group, in Thailand,
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12:43 - 12:47is Think Elephants. Go ahead, Josh.
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12:47 - 12:49Josh Plotnik: Hi, my name is Josh Plotnik,
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12:49 - 12:52and I'm with Think Elephants International,
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12:52 - 12:54and we're here in the Golden Triangle of Thailand
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12:54 - 12:57with the Golden Triangle Asian Elephant Foundation elephants.
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12:57 - 13:00And we have 26 elephants here,
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13:00 - 13:04and our research is focused on the evolution of intelligence with elephants,
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13:04 - 13:06but our foundation Think Elephants is focused
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13:06 - 13:09on bringing elephants into classrooms around the world
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13:09 - 13:11virtually like this and showing people
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13:11 - 13:13how incredible these animals are.
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13:13 - 13:16So we're able to bring the camera right up to the elephant,
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13:16 - 13:18put food into the elephant's mouth,
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13:18 - 13:20show people what's going on inside their mouths,
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13:20 - 13:22and show everyone around the world
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13:22 - 13:25how incredible these animals really are.
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13:25 - 13:28NG: Okay, that's great. Thanks Josh.
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13:28 - 13:30And once again, we've been building great relationships
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13:30 - 13:32among them just since we've been rehearsing.
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13:32 - 13:35So at that point, if we can go back to the other computer,
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13:35 - 13:37we were starting to think about how you integrate
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13:37 - 13:40the rest of the biomass of the planet into the Internet,
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13:40 - 13:43and we went to the best possible person
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13:43 - 13:46I can think of, which is Vint Cerf,
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13:46 - 13:49who is one of the founders who gave us the Internet. Vint?
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13:49 - 13:51VC: Thank you, Neil.
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13:51 - 13:55(Applause)
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13:55 - 14:00A long time ago in a galaxy — oops, wrong script.
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14:00 - 14:02Forty years ago, Bob Kahn and I
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14:02 - 14:04did the design of the Internet.
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14:04 - 14:06Thirty years ago, we turned it on.
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14:06 - 14:10Just last year, we turned on the production Internet.
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14:10 - 14:12You've been using the experimental version
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14:12 - 14:13for the last 30 years.
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14:13 - 14:16The production version, it uses IP version 6.
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14:16 - 14:21It has 3.4 times 10 to the 38th possible terminations.
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14:21 - 14:25That's a number only that Congress can appreciate.
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14:25 - 14:29But it leads to what is coming next.
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14:29 - 14:31When Bob and I did this design,
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14:31 - 14:35we thought we were building a system to connect computers together.
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14:35 - 14:37What we very quickly discovered
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14:37 - 14:40is that this was a system for connecting people together.
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14:40 - 14:42And what you've seen tonight
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14:42 - 14:46tells you that we should not restrict this network
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14:46 - 14:49to one species,
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14:49 - 14:52that these other intelligent, sentient species
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14:52 - 14:55should be part of the system too.
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14:55 - 14:57This is the system as it looks today, by the way.
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14:57 - 15:00This is what the Internet looks like to a computer
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15:00 - 15:03that's trying to figure out where the traffic
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15:03 - 15:04is supposed to go.
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15:04 - 15:07This is generated by a program
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15:07 - 15:10that's looking at the connectivity of the Internet,
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15:10 - 15:13and how all the various networks are connected together.
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15:13 - 15:16There are about 400,000 networks, interconnected,
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15:16 - 15:21run independently by 400,000 different operating agencies,
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15:21 - 15:22and the only reason this works
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15:22 - 15:26is that they all use the same standard TCP/IP protocols.
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15:26 - 15:29Well, you know where this is headed.
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15:29 - 15:31The Internet of Things tell us
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15:31 - 15:35that a lot of computer-enabled appliances and devices
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15:35 - 15:38are going to become part of this system too:
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15:38 - 15:40appliances that you use around the house,
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15:40 - 15:42that you use in your office,
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15:42 - 15:45that you carry around with yourself or in the car.
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15:45 - 15:47That's the Internet of Things that's coming.
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15:47 - 15:50Now, what's important about what these people are doing
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15:50 - 15:52is that they're beginning to learn
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15:52 - 15:55how to communicate with species
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15:55 - 15:57that are not us
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15:57 - 16:00but share a common sensory environment.
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16:00 - 16:02We're beginning to explore what it means
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16:02 - 16:04to communicate with something
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16:04 - 16:06that isn't just another person.
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16:06 - 16:09Well, you can see what's coming next.
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16:09 - 16:12All kinds of possible sentient beings
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16:12 - 16:13may be interconnected through this system,
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16:13 - 16:17and I can't wait to see these experiments unfold.
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16:17 - 16:19What happens after that?
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16:19 - 16:21Well, let's see.
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16:21 - 16:25There are machines that need to talk to machines
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16:25 - 16:28and that we need to talk to, and so as time goes on,
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16:28 - 16:30we're going to have to learn
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16:30 - 16:31how to communicate with computers
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16:31 - 16:34and how to get computers to communicate with us
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16:34 - 16:36in the way that we're accustomed to,
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16:36 - 16:39not with keyboards, not with mice,
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16:39 - 16:41but with speech and gestures
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16:41 - 16:44and all the natural human language that we're accustomed to.
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16:44 - 16:46So we'll need something like C3PO
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16:46 - 16:49to become a translator between ourselves
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16:49 - 16:51and some of the other machines we live with.
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16:51 - 16:54Now, there is a project that's underway
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16:54 - 16:56called the interplanetary Internet.
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16:56 - 16:58It's in operation between Earth and Mars.
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16:58 - 17:01It's operating on the International Space Station.
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17:01 - 17:05It's part of the spacecraft that's in orbit around the Sun
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17:05 - 17:07that's rendezvoused with two planets.
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17:07 - 17:09So the interplanetary system is on its way,
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17:09 - 17:11but there's a last project,
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17:11 - 17:14which the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency,
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17:14 - 17:16which funded the original ARPANET,
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17:16 - 17:19funded the Internet, funded the interplanetary architecture,
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17:19 - 17:22is now funding a project to design a spacecraft
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17:22 - 17:27to get to the nearest star in 100 years' time.
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17:27 - 17:29What that means is that what we're learning
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17:29 - 17:31with these interactions with other species
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17:31 - 17:33will teach us, ultimately,
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17:33 - 17:37how we might interact with an alien from another world.
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17:37 - 17:40I can hardly wait.
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17:40 - 17:47(Applause)
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17:47 - 17:48June Cohen: So first of all, thank you,
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17:48 - 17:51and I would like to acknowledge that four people
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17:51 - 17:53who could talk to us for full four days
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17:53 - 17:55actually managed to stay to four minutes each,
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17:55 - 17:56and we thank you for that.
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17:56 - 17:58I have so many questions,
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17:58 - 18:00but maybe a few practical things that the audience might want to know.
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18:00 - 18:04You're launching this idea here at TED —
PG: Today. -
18:04 - 18:05JC: Today. This is the first time you're talking about it.
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18:05 - 18:07Tell me a little bit about where you're going to take the idea.
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18:07 - 18:09What's next?
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18:09 - 18:12PG: I think we want to engage as many people
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18:12 - 18:14here as possible in helping us
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18:14 - 18:18think of smart interfaces that will make all this possible.
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18:18 - 18:20NG: And just mechanically,
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18:20 - 18:22there's a 501(c)(3) and web infrastructure
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18:22 - 18:24and all of that, but it's not quite ready to turn on,
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18:24 - 18:26so we'll roll that out, and contact us
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18:26 - 18:28if you want the information on it.
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18:28 - 18:31The idea is this will be -- much like the Internet functions
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18:31 - 18:32as a network of networks,
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18:32 - 18:34which is Vint's core contribution,
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18:34 - 18:36this will be a wrapper around all of these initiatives,
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18:36 - 18:39that are wonderful individually, to link them globally.
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18:39 - 18:40JC: Right, and do you have a web address
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18:40 - 18:41that we might look for yet?
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18:41 - 18:44NG: Shortly.
JC: Shortly. We will come back to you on that. -
18:44 - 18:48And very quickly, just to clarify.
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18:48 - 18:50Some people might have looked at the video that you showed
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18:50 - 18:51and thought, well, that's just a webcam.
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18:51 - 18:52What's special about it?
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18:52 - 18:54If you could talk for just a moment
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18:54 - 18:56about how you want to go past that?
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18:56 - 18:59NG: So this is scalable video infrastructure,
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18:59 - 19:02not for a few to a few but many to many,
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19:02 - 19:05so that it scales to symmetrical video sharing
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19:05 - 19:08and content sharing across these sites around the planet.
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19:08 - 19:11So there's a lot of back-end signal processing,
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19:11 - 19:13not for one to many, but for many to many.
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19:13 - 19:15JC: Right, and then on a practical level,
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19:15 - 19:16which technologies are you looking at first?
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19:16 - 19:20I know you mentioned that a keyboard is a really key part of this.
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19:20 - 19:23DR: We're trying to develop an interactive touch screen for dolphins.
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19:23 - 19:25This is sort of a continuation of some of the earlier work,
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19:25 - 19:29and we just got our first seed money today towards that,
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19:29 - 19:30so it's our first project.
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19:30 - 19:32JC: Before the talk, even.
DR: Yeah. -
19:32 - 19:33JC: Wow. Well done.
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19:33 - 19:35All right, well thank you all so much for joining us.
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19:35 - 19:38It's such a delight to have you on the stage.
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19:38 - 19:39DR: Thank you.
VC: Thank you. -
19:39 - 19:44(Applause)
- Title:
- The interspecies internet? An idea in progress
- Speaker:
- Diana Reiss, Peter Gabriel, Neil Gershenfeld and Vint Cerf
- Description:
-
Apes, dolphins and elephants are animals with remarkable communication skills. Could the Internet be expanded to include sentient species like them? A new and developing idea from a panel of four great thinkers -- dolphin researcher Diana Reiss, musician Peter Gabriel, internet of things visionary Neil Gershenfeld and Vint Cerf, one of the fathers of the Internet.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 20:01
Camille Martínez edited English subtitles for The interspecies internet? An idea in progress | ||
Krystian Aparta edited English subtitles for The interspecies internet? An idea in progress | ||
Thu-Huong Ha edited English subtitles for The interspecies internet? An idea in progress | ||
Thu-Huong Ha approved English subtitles for The interspecies internet? An idea in progress | ||
Thu-Huong Ha edited English subtitles for The interspecies internet? An idea in progress | ||
Thu-Huong Ha edited English subtitles for The interspecies internet? An idea in progress | ||
Morton Bast edited English subtitles for The interspecies internet? An idea in progress | ||
Joseph Geni edited English subtitles for The interspecies internet? An idea in progress |