The secret to desire in a long-term relationship
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0:01 - 0:04So, why does good sex so often fade,
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0:04 - 0:09even for couples who continue to love each other as much as ever?
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0:09 - 0:13And why does good intimacy not guarantee good sex,
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0:13 - 0:15contrary to popular belief?
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0:15 - 0:17Or, the next question would be,
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0:17 - 0:20can we want what we already have?
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0:20 - 0:23That's the million-dollar question, right?
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0:23 - 0:24And why is the forbidden so erotic?
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0:24 - 0:29What is it about transgression that makes desire so potent?
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0:29 - 0:30And why does sex make babies,
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0:30 - 0:34and babies spell erotic disaster in couples?
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0:34 - 0:37It's kind of the fatal erotic blow, isn't it?
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0:37 - 0:39And when you love, how does it feel?
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0:39 - 0:43And when you desire, how is it different?
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0:43 - 0:44These are some of the questions
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0:44 - 0:47that are at the center of my exploration
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0:47 - 0:50on the nature of erotic desire
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0:50 - 0:54and its concomitant dilemmas in modern love.
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0:54 - 0:55So I travel the globe,
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0:55 - 0:58and what I'm noticing is that
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0:58 - 1:00everywhere where romanticism has entered,
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1:00 - 1:03there seems to be a crisis of desire.
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1:03 - 1:08A crisis of desire, as in owning the wanting --
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1:08 - 1:11desire as an expression of our individuality,
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1:11 - 1:15of our free choice, of our preferences, of our identity --
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1:15 - 1:18desire that has become a central concept
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1:18 - 1:22as part of modern love and individualistic societies.
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1:22 - 1:25You know, this is the first time in the history of humankind
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1:25 - 1:31where we are trying to experience sexuality in the long term,
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1:31 - 1:35not because we want 14 children,
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1:35 - 1:39for which we need to have even more because many of them won't make it,
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1:39 - 1:43and not because it is exclusively a woman's marital duty.
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1:43 - 1:48This is the first time that we want sex over time
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1:48 - 1:52about pleasure and connection that is rooted in desire.
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1:52 - 1:56So what sustains desire, and why is it so difficult?
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1:56 - 2:01And at the heart of sustaining desire in a committed relationship,
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2:01 - 2:07I think is the reconciliation of two fundamental human needs.
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2:07 - 2:12On the one hand, our need for security, for predictability,
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2:12 - 2:19for safety, for dependability, for reliability, for permanence --
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2:19 - 2:22all these anchoring, grounding experiences of our lives
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2:22 - 2:24that we call home.
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2:24 - 2:28But we also have an equally strong need -- men and women --
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2:28 - 2:34for adventure, for novelty, for mystery, for risk, for danger,
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2:34 - 2:37for the unknown, for the unexpected, surprise --
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2:37 - 2:41you get the gist -- for journey, for travel.
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2:41 - 2:43So reconciling our need for security
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2:43 - 2:46and our need for adventure into one relationship,
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2:46 - 2:49or what we today like to call a passionate marriage,
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2:49 - 2:52used to be a contradiction in terms.
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2:52 - 2:55Marriage was an economic institution
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2:55 - 2:58in which you were given a partnership for life
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2:58 - 3:01in terms of children and social status
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3:01 - 3:03and succession and companionship.
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3:03 - 3:08But now we want our partner to still give us all these things,
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3:08 - 3:10but in addition I want you to be my best friend
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3:10 - 3:14and my trusted confidant and my passionate lover to boot,
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3:14 - 3:15and we live twice as long.
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3:15 - 3:18(Laughter)
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3:18 - 3:22So we come to one person, and we basically are asking them
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3:22 - 3:25to give us what once an entire village used to provide:
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3:25 - 3:29Give me belonging, give me identity, give me continuity,
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3:29 - 3:33but give me transcendence and mystery and awe all in one.
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3:33 - 3:35Give me comfort, give me edge.
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3:35 - 3:37Give me novelty, give me familiarity.
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3:37 - 3:39Give me predictability, give me surprise.
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3:39 - 3:43And we think it's a given, and toys and lingerie are going to save us with that.
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3:43 - 3:49(Applause)
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3:49 - 3:53So now we get to the existential reality of the story, right?
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3:53 - 3:59Because I think, in some way -- and I'll come back to that --
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3:59 - 4:02but the crisis of desire is often a crisis of the imagination.
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4:02 - 4:06So why does good sex so often fade?
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4:06 - 4:08What is the relationship between love and desire?
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4:08 - 4:12How do they relate, and how do they conflict?
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4:12 - 4:15Because therein lies the mystery of eroticism.
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4:15 - 4:19So if there is a verb, for me, that comes with love, it's "to have."
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4:19 - 4:23And if there is a verb that comes with desire, it is "to want."
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4:23 - 4:27In love, we want to have, we want to know the beloved.
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4:27 - 4:32We want to minimize the distance. We want to contract that gap.
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4:32 - 4:36We want to neutralize the tensions. We want closeness.
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4:36 - 4:41But in desire, we tend to not really want to go back to the places we've already gone.
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4:41 - 4:44Forgone conclusion does not keep our interest.
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4:44 - 4:49In desire, we want an Other, somebody on the other side that we can go visit,
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4:49 - 4:52that we can go spend some time with,
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4:52 - 4:56that we can go see what goes on in their red light district.
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4:56 - 4:59In desire, we want a bridge to cross.
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4:59 - 5:03Or in other words, I sometimes say, fire needs air.
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5:03 - 5:05Desire needs space.
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5:05 - 5:08And when it's said like that, it's often quite abstract.
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5:08 - 5:10But then I took a question with me.
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5:10 - 5:13And I've gone to more than 20 countries in the last few years
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5:13 - 5:15with "Mating in Captivity," and I asked people,
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5:15 - 5:19when do you find yourself most drawn to your partner?
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5:19 - 5:22Not attracted sexually, per se, but most drawn.
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5:22 - 5:25And across culture, across religion, and across gender --
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5:25 - 5:31except for one -- there are a few answers that just keep coming back.
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5:31 - 5:35So the first group is: I am most drawn to my partner
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5:35 - 5:42when she is away, when we are apart, when we reunite.
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5:42 - 5:46Basically, when I get back in touch
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5:46 - 5:49with my ability to imagine myself with my partner,
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5:49 - 5:52when my imagination comes back in the picture,
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5:52 - 5:57and when I can root it in absence and in longing,
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5:57 - 6:00which is a major component of desire.
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6:00 - 6:03But then the second group is even more interesting:
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6:03 - 6:05I am most drawn to my partner
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6:05 - 6:09when I see him in the studio, when she is onstage,
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6:09 - 6:13when he is in his element, when she's doing something she's passionate about,
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6:13 - 6:16when I see him at a party and other people are really drawn to him,
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6:16 - 6:19when I see her hold court.
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6:19 - 6:23Basically, when I look at my partner radiant and confident,
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6:23 - 6:26probably the biggest turn-on across the board.
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6:26 - 6:29Radiant, as in self-sustaining.
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6:29 - 6:32I look at this person -- by the way, in desire
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6:32 - 6:34people rarely talk about it, when we are blended into one,
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6:34 - 6:38five centimeters from each other. I don't know in inches how much that is.
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6:38 - 6:41But it's also not when the other person is that far apart
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6:41 - 6:43that you no longer see them.
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6:43 - 6:47It's when I'm looking at my partner from a comfortable distance,
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6:47 - 6:51where this person that is already so familiar, so known,
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6:51 - 6:56is momentarily once again somewhat mysterious, somewhat elusive.
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6:56 - 7:01And in this space between me and the other lies the erotic élan,
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7:01 - 7:04lies that movement toward the other.
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7:04 - 7:06Because sometimes, as Proust says,
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7:06 - 7:08mystery is not about traveling to new places,
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7:08 - 7:11but it's about looking with new eyes.
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7:11 - 7:14And so, when I see my partner on his own or her own,
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7:14 - 7:17doing something in which they are enveloped,
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7:17 - 7:22I look at this person and I momentarily get a shift in perception,
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7:22 - 7:27and I stay open to the mysteries that are living right next to me.
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7:27 - 7:32And then, more importantly, in this description about the other
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7:32 - 7:35or myself -- it's the same -- what is most interesting
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7:35 - 7:38is that there is no neediness in desire.
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7:38 - 7:40Nobody needs anybody.
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7:40 - 7:42There is no caretaking in desire.
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7:42 - 7:48Caretaking is mightily loving. It's a powerful anti-aphrodisiac.
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7:48 - 7:50I have yet to see somebody who is so turned on
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7:50 - 7:52by somebody who needs them.
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7:52 - 7:55Wanting them is one thing. Needing them is a shutdown,
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7:55 - 7:57and women have known that forever,
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7:57 - 8:00because anything that will bring up parenthood
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8:00 - 8:03will usually decrease the erotic charge.
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8:03 - 8:05For good reasons, right?
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8:05 - 8:08And then the third group of answers usually would be
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8:08 - 8:13when I'm surprised, when we laugh together,
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8:13 - 8:15as somebody said to me in the office today,
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8:15 - 8:17when he's in his tux, so I said, you know,
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8:17 - 8:20it's either the tux or the cowboy boots.
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8:20 - 8:23But basically it's when there is novelty.
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8:23 - 8:28But novelty isn't about new positions. It isn't a repertoire of techniques.
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8:28 - 8:31Novelty is, what parts of you do you bring out?
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8:31 - 8:34What parts of you are just being seen?
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8:34 - 8:36Because in some way one could say
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8:36 - 8:38sex isn't something you do, eh?
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8:38 - 8:41Sex is a place you go. It's a space you enter
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8:41 - 8:45inside yourself and with another, or others.
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8:45 - 8:47So where do you go in sex?
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8:47 - 8:50What parts of you do you connect to?
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8:50 - 8:52What do you seek to express there?
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8:52 - 8:55Is it a place for transcendence and spiritual union?
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8:55 - 8:59Is it a place for naughtiness and is it a place to be safely aggressive?
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8:59 - 9:02Is it a place where you can finally surrender
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9:02 - 9:05and not have to take responsibility for everything?
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9:05 - 9:08Is it a place where you can express your infantile wishes?
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9:08 - 9:10What comes out there? It's a language.
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9:10 - 9:12It isn't just a behavior.
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9:12 - 9:15And it's the poetic of that language that I'm interested in,
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9:15 - 9:19which is why I began to explore this concept of erotic intelligence.
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9:19 - 9:21You know, animals have sex.
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9:21 - 9:25It's the pivot, it's biology, it's the natural instinct.
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9:25 - 9:28We are the only ones who have an erotic life,
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9:28 - 9:34which means that it's sexuality transformed by the human imagination.
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9:34 - 9:38We are the only ones who can make love for hours,
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9:38 - 9:41have a blissful time, multiple orgasms,
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9:41 - 9:45and touch nobody, just because we can imagine it.
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9:45 - 9:47We can hint at it. We don't even have to do it.
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9:47 - 9:51We can experience that powerful thing called anticipation,
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9:51 - 9:53which is a mortar to desire,
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9:53 - 9:57the ability to imagine it, as if it's happening,
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9:57 - 10:01to experience it as if it's happening, while nothing is happening
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10:01 - 10:04and everything is happening at the same time.
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10:04 - 10:06So when I began to think about eroticism,
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10:06 - 10:09I began to think about the poetics of sex,
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10:09 - 10:12and if I look at it as an intelligence,
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10:12 - 10:14then it's something that you cultivate.
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10:14 - 10:18What are the ingredients? Imagination, playfulness,
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10:18 - 10:22novelty, curiosity, mystery.
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10:22 - 10:26But the central agent is really that piece called the imagination.
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10:26 - 10:30But more importantly, for me to begin to understand
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10:30 - 10:32who are the couples who have an erotic spark,
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10:32 - 10:35what sustains desire, I had to go back
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10:35 - 10:38to the original definition of eroticism,
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10:38 - 10:40the mystical definition, and I went through it
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10:40 - 10:44through a bifurcation by looking actually at trauma,
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10:44 - 10:46which is the other side, and I looked at it
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10:46 - 10:49looking at the community that I had grown up in,
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10:49 - 10:53which was a community in Belgium, all Holocaust survivors,
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10:53 - 10:55and in my community there were two groups:
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10:55 - 10:59those who didn't die, and those who came back to life.
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10:59 - 11:03And those who didn't die lived often very tethered to the ground,
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11:03 - 11:06could not experience pleasure, could not trust,
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11:06 - 11:09because when you're vigilant, worried, anxious,
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11:09 - 11:12and insecure, you can't lift your head
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11:12 - 11:17to go and take off in space and be playful and safe and imaginative.
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11:17 - 11:20Those who came back to life were those
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11:20 - 11:22who understood the erotic as an antidote to death.
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11:22 - 11:26They knew how to keep themselves alive.
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11:26 - 11:30And when I began to listen to the sexlessness of the couples that I work with,
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11:30 - 11:33I sometimes would hear people say, "I want more sex,"
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11:33 - 11:36but generally people want better sex,
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11:36 - 11:39and better is to reconnect with that quality of aliveness,
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11:39 - 11:43of vibrancy, of renewal, of vitality, of eros, of energy
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11:43 - 11:46that sex used to afford them, or that they've hoped
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11:46 - 11:47it would afford them.
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11:47 - 11:50And so I began to ask a different question.
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11:50 - 11:55"I shut myself off when ..." began to be the question.
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11:55 - 11:59"I turn off my desires when ..." which is not the same question as,
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11:59 - 12:03"What turns me of is ..." and "You turn me off when ..."
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12:03 - 12:06And people began to say, "I turn myself off when
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12:06 - 12:09I feel dead inside, when I don't like my body,
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12:09 - 12:12when I feel old, when I haven't had time for myself,
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12:12 - 12:14when I haven't had a chance to even check in with you,
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12:14 - 12:16when I don't perform well at work,
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12:16 - 12:19when I feel low self esteem, when I don't have a sense of self-worth,
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12:19 - 12:22when I don't feel like I have a right to want, to take,
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12:22 - 12:25to receive pleasure."
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12:25 - 12:27And then I began to ask the reverse question.
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12:27 - 12:30"I turn myself on when ..." Because most of the time,
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12:30 - 12:33people like to ask the question, "You turn me on,
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12:33 - 12:36what turns me on," and I'm out of the question. You know?
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12:36 - 12:41Now, if you are dead inside, the other person can do a lot of things for Valentine's.
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12:41 - 12:44It won't make a dent. There is nobody at the reception desk.
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12:44 - 12:45(Laughter)
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12:45 - 12:47So I turn myself on when,
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12:47 - 12:51I turn my desires, I wake up when ...
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12:51 - 12:56Now, in this paradox between love and desire,
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12:56 - 13:00what seems to be so puzzling is that the very ingredients
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13:00 - 13:04that nurture love -- mutuality, reciprocity,
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13:04 - 13:08protection, worry, responsibility for the other --
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13:08 - 13:12are sometimes the very ingredients that stifle desire.
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13:12 - 13:17Because desire comes with a host of feelings
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13:17 - 13:20that are not always such favorites of love:
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13:20 - 13:25jealousy, possessiveness, aggression, power, dominance,
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13:25 - 13:26naughtiness, mischief.
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13:26 - 13:30Basically most of us will get turned on at night
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13:30 - 13:34by the very same things that we will demonstrate against during the day.
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13:34 - 13:37You know, the erotic mind is not very politically correct.
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13:37 - 13:40If everybody was fantasizing on a bed of roses,
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13:40 - 13:43we wouldn't be having such interesting talks about this.
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13:43 - 13:46But no, in our mind up there
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13:46 - 13:50are a host of things going on that we don't always know
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13:50 - 13:52how to bring to the person that we love,
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13:52 - 13:55because we think love comes with selflessness
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13:55 - 13:58and in fact desire comes with a certain amount of selfishness
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13:58 - 14:00in the best sense of the word:
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14:00 - 14:03the ability to stay connected to one's self
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14:03 - 14:05in the presence of another.
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14:05 - 14:08So I want to draw that little image for you,
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14:08 - 14:11because this need to reconcile these two sets of needs,
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14:11 - 14:13we are born with that.
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14:13 - 14:16Our need for connection, our need for separateness,
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14:16 - 14:18or our need for security and adventure,
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14:18 - 14:21or our need for togetherness and for autonomy,
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14:21 - 14:23and if you think about the little kid who sits on your lap
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14:23 - 14:28and who is cozily nested here and very secure and comfortable,
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14:28 - 14:32and at some point all of us need to go out into the world
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14:32 - 14:34to discover and to explore.
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14:34 - 14:36That's the beginning of desire,
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14:36 - 14:40that exploratory needs curiosity, discovery.
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14:40 - 14:44And then at some point they turn around and they look at you,
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14:44 - 14:47and if you tell them,
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14:47 - 14:49"Hey kiddo, the world's a great place. Go for it.
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14:49 - 14:51There's so much fun out there,"
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14:51 - 14:53then they can turn away and they can experience
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14:53 - 14:56connection and separateness at the same time.
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14:56 - 14:59They can go off in their imagination, off in their body,
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14:59 - 15:02off in their playfulness, all the while knowing
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15:02 - 15:05that there's somebody when they come back.
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15:05 - 15:07But if on this side there is somebody who says,
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15:07 - 15:11"I'm worried. I'm anxious. I'm depressed.
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15:11 - 15:13My partner hasn't taken care of me in so long.
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15:13 - 15:15What's so good out there? Don't we have everything
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15:15 - 15:17you need together, you and I?"
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15:17 - 15:20then there are a few little reactions
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15:20 - 15:23that all of us can pretty much recognize.
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15:23 - 15:28Some of us will come back, came back a long time ago,
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15:28 - 15:30and that little child who comes back
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15:30 - 15:33is the child who will forgo a part of himself
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15:33 - 15:35in order not to lose the other.
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15:35 - 15:39I will lose my freedom in order not to lose connection.
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15:39 - 15:42And I will learn to love in a certain way
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15:42 - 15:46that will become burdened with extra worry
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15:46 - 15:49and extra responsibility and extra protection,
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15:49 - 15:52and I won't know how to leave you
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15:52 - 15:55in order to go play, in order to go experience pleasure,
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15:55 - 15:59in order to discover, to enter inside myself.
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15:59 - 16:02Translate this into adult language.
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16:02 - 16:05It starts very young. It continues into our sex lives
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16:05 - 16:07up to the end.
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16:07 - 16:09Child number two comes back
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16:09 - 16:12but looks like that over their shoulder all the time.
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16:12 - 16:14"Are you going to be there?
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16:14 - 16:16Are you going to curse me? Are you going to scold me?
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16:16 - 16:18Are you going to be angry with me?"
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16:18 - 16:22And they may be gone, but they're never really away,
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16:22 - 16:24and those are often the people that will tell you,
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16:24 - 16:26in the beginning it was super hot.
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16:26 - 16:30Because in the beginning, the growing intimacy
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16:30 - 16:31wasn't yet so strong
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16:31 - 16:35that it actually led to the decrease of desire.
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16:35 - 16:38The more connected I became, the more responsible I felt,
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16:38 - 16:42the less I was able to let go in your presence.
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16:42 - 16:44The third child doesn't really come back.
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16:44 - 16:48So what happens, if you want to sustain desire,
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16:48 - 16:50it's that real dialectic piece.
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16:50 - 16:54On the one hand you want the security in order to be able to go.
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16:54 - 16:57On the other hand if you can't go, you can't have pleasure,
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16:57 - 17:00you can't culminate, you don't have an orgasm,
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17:00 - 17:03you don't get excited because you spend your time
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17:03 - 17:06in the body and the head of the other and not in your own.
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17:06 - 17:10So in this dilemma about reconciling
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17:10 - 17:12these two sets of fundamental needs,
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17:12 - 17:17there are a few things that I've come to understand erotic couples do.
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17:17 - 17:20One, they have a lot of sexual privacy.
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17:20 - 17:22They understand that there is an erotic space
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17:22 - 17:24that belongs to each of them.
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17:24 - 17:27They also understand that foreplay is not something you do
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17:27 - 17:29five minutes before the real thing.
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17:29 - 17:33Foreplay pretty much starts at the end of the previous orgasm.
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17:33 - 17:36They also understand that an erotic space
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17:36 - 17:38isn't about, you begin to stroke the other.
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17:38 - 17:42It's about you create a space where you leave Management Inc.,
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17:42 - 17:44maybe where you leave the agile program,
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17:44 - 17:46(Laughter)
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17:46 - 17:49and you actually just enter that place
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17:49 - 17:51where you stop being the good citizen
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17:51 - 17:54who is taking care of things and being responsible.
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17:54 - 17:57Responsibility and desire just butt heads.
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17:57 - 18:00They don't really do well together.
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18:00 - 18:04Erotic couples also understand that passion waxes and wanes.
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18:04 - 18:08It's pretty much like the moon. It has intermittent eclipses.
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18:08 - 18:10But what they know is they know how to resurrect it.
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18:10 - 18:12They know how to bring it back,
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18:12 - 18:13and they know how to bring it back
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18:13 - 18:16because they have demystified one big myth,
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18:16 - 18:19which is the myth of spontaneity, which is
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18:19 - 18:22that it's just going to fall from heaven while you're folding the laundry
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18:22 - 18:25like a deus ex machina, and in fact they understood
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18:25 - 18:28that whatever is going to just happen
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18:28 - 18:31in a long-term relationship already has.
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18:31 - 18:34Committed sex is premeditated sex.
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18:34 - 18:36It's willful. It's intentional.
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18:36 - 18:39It's focus and presence.
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18:39 - 18:41Merry Valentine's.
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18:41 - 18:49(Applause)
- Title:
- The secret to desire in a long-term relationship
- Speaker:
- Esther Perel
- Description:
-
In long-term relationships, we often expect our beloved to be both best friend and erotic partner. But as Esther Perel argues, good and committed sex draws on two conflicting needs: our need for security and our need for surprise. So how do you sustain desire? With wit and eloquence, Perel lets us in on the mystery of erotic intelligence.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 19:10
Camille Martínez edited English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | ||
Krystian Aparta edited English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | ||
Krystian Aparta edited English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | ||
Krystian Aparta commented on English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | ||
Krystian Aparta edited English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | ||
Morton Bast edited English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | ||
Thu-Huong Ha edited English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | ||
Thu-Huong Ha approved English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship |
Krystian Aparta
The English transcript was updated on 3/19/2015.