The conversation we're not having about digital child abuse
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0:00 - 0:04[This talk contains graphic content.
Viewer discretion is advised.] -
0:04 - 0:07This is Nina Rodríguez's Facebook profile.
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0:09 - 0:11This person had three different profiles
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0:11 - 0:16and 890 kids between 8 and 13 years old
among her friends list. -
0:19 - 0:23These are excerpts of a chat
with one of those kids. -
0:25 - 0:28This is an exact copy of the chat.
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0:29 - 0:30It's part of the case file.
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0:33 - 0:36This kid started sending private photos
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0:36 - 0:39until his family realized
what was going on. -
0:40 - 0:44The police report and subsequent
investigation lead them to a house. -
0:45 - 0:48This was the girl's bedroom.
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0:50 - 0:55Nina Rodríguez was actually
a 24-year-old man -
0:55 - 0:58that used to do this with lots of kids.
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1:01 - 1:04Micaela Ortega was 12 years old
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1:05 - 1:07when she went to meet
her new Facebook friend, -
1:07 - 1:09also 12.
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1:10 - 1:12"Rochi de River," was her name.
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1:14 - 1:18She actually met Jonathan Luna,
who was 26 years old. -
1:19 - 1:20When they finally caught him,
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1:20 - 1:25he confessed that he killed the girl
because she refused to have sex with him. -
1:27 - 1:30He had four Facebook profiles
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1:30 - 1:33and 1,700 women on his contact list;
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1:35 - 1:3790 percent of them
were under 13 years old. -
1:41 - 1:43These are two different
cases of "grooming": -
1:44 - 1:47an adult contacts a kid
through the internet, -
1:48 - 1:53and through manipulation or lying,
leads that kid into sexual territory -- -
1:53 - 1:55from talking about sex
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1:55 - 1:57to sharing private photos,
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1:57 - 1:59recording the kid using a webcam
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1:59 - 2:01or arranging an in-person meeting.
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2:03 - 2:04This is grooming.
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2:05 - 2:07This is happening, and it's on the rise.
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2:10 - 2:12The question is: What are we going to do?
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2:12 - 2:15Because, in the meantime, kids are alone.
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2:17 - 2:19They finish dinner, go to their rooms,
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2:19 - 2:20close the door,
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2:21 - 2:23get on their computer, their cell phones,
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2:23 - 2:26and get into a bar,
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2:27 - 2:28into a club.
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2:30 - 2:33Think for one second
about what I've just said: -
2:35 - 2:38they're in a place full of strangers
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2:38 - 2:40in an uninhibited environment.
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2:42 - 2:44The internet broke physical boundaries.
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2:45 - 2:49When we're alone in our bedroom
and we go online, -
2:49 - 2:50we're not really alone.
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2:53 - 2:58There are at least two reasons
why we're not taking care of this, -
2:58 - 3:00or at least not in the right way.
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3:02 - 3:06First, we're sure that everything
that happens online is "virtual." -
3:06 - 3:09In fact, we call it "the virtual world."
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3:11 - 3:13If you look it up in the dictionary,
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3:14 - 3:16something virtual is something
that seems to exist -
3:16 - 3:18but is not real.
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3:19 - 3:23And we use that word
to talk about the internet: -
3:23 - 3:25something not real.
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3:27 - 3:29And that's the problem with grooming.
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3:29 - 3:31It is real.
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3:32 - 3:38Degenerate, perverted adults
use the internet to abuse boys and girls -
3:38 - 3:40and take advantage of, among other things,
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3:40 - 3:43the fact that the kids and their parents
think that what happens online -
3:43 - 3:45doesn't actually happen.
-
3:48 - 3:51Several years ago,
some colleagues and I founded an NGO -
3:51 - 3:53called "Argentina Cibersegura,"
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3:53 - 3:57dedicated to raising awareness
about online safety. -
3:59 - 4:03In 2013, we attended meetings
at the House of Legislature -
4:03 - 4:05to discuss a law about grooming.
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4:08 - 4:10I remember that a lot of people thought
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4:10 - 4:12that grooming was strictly a precursor
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4:12 - 4:16to arranging an in-person meeting
with a kid to have sex with them. -
4:18 - 4:22But they didn't think about what happened
to the kids who were exposed -
4:22 - 4:25by talking about sex
with an adult without knowing it, -
4:26 - 4:30or who shared intimate photos thinking
only another kid would see them, -
4:30 - 4:31or even worse,
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4:32 - 4:34who had exposed themselves
using their web cam. -
4:35 - 4:37Nobody considered that rape.
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4:39 - 4:44I'm sure lots of you find it odd to think
one person can abuse another -
4:44 - 4:45without physical contact.
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4:46 - 4:48We're programmed to think that way.
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4:49 - 4:51I know, because I used to think that way.
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4:51 - 4:54I was just an IT security guy
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4:55 - 4:57until this happened to me.
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4:59 - 5:01At the end of 2011,
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5:02 - 5:05in a little town in Buenos Aires Province,
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5:05 - 5:07I heard about a case for the first time.
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5:09 - 5:10After giving a talk,
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5:11 - 5:16I met the parents of an 11-year-old girl
who had been a victim of grooming. -
5:18 - 5:22A man had manipulated her
into masturbating in front of her web cam, -
5:22 - 5:24and recorded it.
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5:24 - 5:27And the video was on several websites.
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5:29 - 5:32That day, her parents asked us, in tears,
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5:32 - 5:33to tell them the magic formula
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5:33 - 5:36for how to delete those videos
from the internet. -
5:38 - 5:42It broke my heart and changed me forever
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5:42 - 5:45to be their last disappointment,
telling them it was too late: -
5:46 - 5:48once content is online,
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5:48 - 5:50we've already lost control.
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5:53 - 5:55Since that day, I think about that girl
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5:57 - 6:01waking up in the morning,
having breakfast with her family, -
6:01 - 6:02who had seen the video,
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6:03 - 6:09and then walking to school, meeting
people that had seen her naked, -
6:09 - 6:13arriving to school, playing with
her friends, who had also seen her. -
6:15 - 6:16That was her life.
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6:18 - 6:19Exposed.
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6:22 - 6:24Of course, nobody raped her body.
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6:25 - 6:28But hadn't her sexuality been abused?
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6:31 - 6:35We clearly use different standards
to measure physical and digital things. -
6:37 - 6:39And we get angry at social networks
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6:39 - 6:43because being angry with ourselves
is more painful and more true. -
6:45 - 6:47And this brings us
to the second reason why -
6:47 - 6:49we aren't paying proper
attention to this issue. -
6:50 - 6:55We're convinced that kids
don't need our help, -
6:55 - 6:57that they "know everything"
about technology. -
7:00 - 7:01When I was a kid,
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7:03 - 7:06at one point, my parents started
letting me walk to school alone. -
7:07 - 7:11After years of taking me by the hand
and walking me to school, -
7:12 - 7:14one day they sat me down,
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7:14 - 7:16gave me the house keys
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7:16 - 7:20and said, "Be very careful with these;
don't give them to anyone, -
7:20 - 7:24take the route we showed you,
be at home at the time we said, -
7:24 - 7:27cross at the corner,
and look both ways before you cross, -
7:27 - 7:31and no matter what,
don't talk to strangers." -
7:33 - 7:35I knew everything about walking,
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7:36 - 7:40and yet, there was a responsible adult
there taking care of me. -
7:41 - 7:43Knowing how to do something is one thing,
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7:43 - 7:45knowing how to take care
of yourself is another. -
7:47 - 7:49Imagine this situation:
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7:49 - 7:51I'm 10 or 11 years old,
I wake up in the morning, -
7:51 - 7:53my parents toss me the keys and say,
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7:53 - 7:55"Seba, now you can walk to school alone."
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7:56 - 7:59And when I come back late,
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8:00 - 8:03they say, "No, you need to be home
at the time we said." -
8:05 - 8:07And two weeks later,
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8:07 - 8:10when it comes up,
they say, "You know what? -
8:10 - 8:13You have to cross at the corner,
and look both ways before crossing." -
8:15 - 8:16And two years later, they say,
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8:17 - 8:21"And also, don't talk to strangers."
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8:23 - 8:25It sounds absurd, right?
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8:26 - 8:29We have the same absurd behavior
in relation to technology. -
8:30 - 8:32We give kids total access
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8:32 - 8:35and we see if one day, sooner or later,
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8:35 - 8:37they learn how to take care of themselves.
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8:39 - 8:41Knowing how to do something is one thing,
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8:41 - 8:43knowing how to take care
of yourself is another. -
8:45 - 8:47Along those same lines,
when we talk to parents, -
8:47 - 8:53they often say they don't care
about technology and social networks. -
8:54 - 8:57I always rejoin that by asking
if they care about their kids. -
8:58 - 9:00As adults, being interested
or not in technology -
9:00 - 9:03is the same as being interested
or not in our kids. -
9:03 - 9:05The internet is part of their lives.
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9:07 - 9:12Technology forces us to rethink
the relationship between adults and kids. -
9:13 - 9:16Education was always based
on two main concepts: -
9:16 - 9:19experience and knowledge.
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9:21 - 9:26How do we teach our kids to be safe online
when we don't have either? -
9:28 - 9:31Nowadays, we adults
have to guide our children -
9:31 - 9:33through what is often for us
unfamiliar territory -- -
9:33 - 9:35territory much more inviting for them.
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9:38 - 9:41It's impossible to find an answer
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9:41 - 9:44without doing new things --
things that make us uncomfortable, -
9:44 - 9:45things we're not used to.
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9:48 - 9:50A lot of you may think it's easy for me,
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9:50 - 9:52because I'm relatively young.
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9:53 - 9:54And it used to be that way.
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9:55 - 9:57Used to.
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9:58 - 10:00Until last year,
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10:00 - 10:04when I felt the weight
of my age on my shoulders -
10:05 - 10:10the first time I opened Snapchat.
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10:10 - 10:13(Laughter)
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10:15 - 10:17(Applause)
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10:20 - 10:22I didn't understand a thing!
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10:23 - 10:26I found it unnecessary,
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10:26 - 10:29useless, hard to understand;
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10:29 - 10:31it looked like a camera!
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10:31 - 10:32It didn't have menu options!
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10:35 - 10:37It was the first time I felt the gap
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10:37 - 10:40that sometimes exists
between kids and adults. -
10:42 - 10:45But it was also an opportunity
to do the right thing, -
10:45 - 10:47to leave my comfort zone, to force myself.
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10:49 - 10:52I never thought I'd ever use Snapchat,
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10:52 - 10:57but then I asked my teenage cousin
to show me how to use it. -
10:58 - 11:00I also asked why she used it.
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11:01 - 11:02What was fun about it?
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11:04 - 11:05We had a really nice talk.
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11:06 - 11:08She showed me her Snapchat,
she told me things, -
11:08 - 11:11we got closer, we laughed.
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11:13 - 11:14Today, I use it.
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11:15 - 11:16(Laughter)
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11:17 - 11:18I don't know if I do it right,
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11:18 - 11:23but the most important thing
is that I know it and I understand it. -
11:24 - 11:29The key was to overcome the initial shock
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11:29 - 11:30and do something new.
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11:32 - 11:33Something new.
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11:33 - 11:36Today, we have the chance
to create new conversations. -
11:37 - 11:40What's the last app you downloaded?
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11:40 - 11:43Which social network do you use
to contact your friends? -
11:43 - 11:45What kind of information do you share?
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11:47 - 11:49Have you ever been
approached by strangers? -
11:51 - 11:54Could we have these conversations
between kids and adults? -
11:56 - 11:58We have to force ourselves
to do it. All of us. -
11:58 - 12:03Today, lots of kids are listening to us.
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12:05 - 12:07Sometimes when we go
to schools to give our talks, -
12:07 - 12:09or through social networks,
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12:09 - 12:11kids ask or tell us things
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12:11 - 12:16they haven't told
their parents or their teachers. -
12:16 - 12:18They tell us -- they don't even know us.
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12:21 - 12:23Those kids need to know
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12:24 - 12:26what the risks of being online are,
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12:28 - 12:30how to take care of themselves,
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12:30 - 12:33but also that, fundamentally,
as with almost everything else, -
12:33 - 12:36kids can learn this from any adult.
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12:40 - 12:43Online safety needs to be
a conversation topic -
12:43 - 12:46in every house and every
classroom in the country. -
12:48 - 12:52We did a survey this year that showed
that 15 percent of schools said -
12:52 - 12:54they knew of cases of grooming
in their school. -
12:55 - 12:57And this number is growing.
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13:00 - 13:03Technology changed
every aspect of our life, -
13:03 - 13:06including the risks we face
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13:06 - 13:08and how we take care of ourselves.
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13:09 - 13:12Grooming shows us this
in the most painful way: -
13:13 - 13:15by involving our kids.
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13:17 - 13:19Are we going to do something
to avoid this? -
13:20 - 13:24The solution starts
with something as easy as: -
13:24 - 13:26talking about it.
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13:26 - 13:27Thank you.
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13:27 - 13:33(Applause)
- Title:
- The conversation we're not having about digital child abuse
- Speaker:
- Sebastián Bortnik
- Description:
-
We need to talk to kids about the risks they face online, says information security expert Sebastián Bortnik. In this talk, Bortnik discusses the issue of "grooming" -- the sexual predation of children by adults on the internet -- and outlines the conversations we need to start having about technology to keep our kids safe.
- Video Language:
- Spanish
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 13:40
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for La conversación que no estamos teniendo sobre abuso digital infantil | ||
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for La conversación que no estamos teniendo sobre abuso digital infantil | ||
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for La conversación que no estamos teniendo sobre abuso digital infantil | ||
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for La conversación que no estamos teniendo sobre abuso digital infantil | ||
Brian Greene accepted English subtitles for La conversación que no estamos teniendo sobre abuso digital infantil | ||
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for La conversación que no estamos teniendo sobre abuso digital infantil |