Interview with Jenny Hoang

Jenny Hoang talks about her PhD project on tomboys from Taiwan & Taiwanese Americans, and why she doesn't really agree with the idea of the coming out narrative.

Shot by Gabriel de Leon
Production Assistant: Brandon Wong
Edited by So Yun Um
Auxiliary edits by Khue Bui

My name is Jenny Hoang.
I'm Chinese.

I guess you could say I'm Chinese American,
but generally I just say I'm Chinese.

I recognize myself as a woman.
For the sexuality stuff,

I think it's a little more
complicated than that.

I always try to give,
"Oh, let me give you a one-word answer,"

but I think it's very hard
to give a one-word answer.

So I date men, I date women,
I date a lot of people.

I grew up in SoCal, and I moved to SGV
in my early twenties.

I lived here for a couple of years.

So I'm a PhD candidate at USC in the
American Studies and Ethnicity program.

My research is on gender and sexuality.

I focus mainly on Taiwan and U.S. relations
around the figure of the tomboy.

You know, when you say "tomboy"
in the U.S., you generally think of this

pre-pubescent girl who likes to roughhouse
and play,

but then she'll eventually grow out of it.

But in Taiwan,
in other parts of Southeast Asia,

it's an informal gender and sexuality
category of people who are "female-bodied"

but present as masculine
and who stay feminine women.

It's about presenting yourself
in a more genderfluid way.

So you might go by "he,"
or you might not go by "he"

But people will still recognize you
as very masculine.

So my research is on Taiwan and
U.S. relations, and I'm interested in

thinking about how the tomboy sort of
reflects global exchange that happens

between Taiwan and the U.S.
So in my research,

I've met a lot of people who identify
themselves as tomboys, right?

And generally, they're ethnic Chinese or
they're Taiwanese, and in my research,

I've also met a lot of organizations
that service the queer API community.

In terms of my family, I don't know if
they really understand what I do.

They just know I'm going to school.

So I'm engaged to my partner right now.
My partner goes by "he" most of the time,

and they've met him, and I think -

I think - so when I told my parents -
when I told my family I "liked" women,

it was when I was really young,
I was in high school,

and I was like, "Hey, Mom, Dad,
you know, I date women, too."

and I think they took it as, "Oh, it's just
you being a kid, you're just experimenting

"you're just being silly." But in this
last relationship, we're engaged.

I think caused them a lot of anxiety,
a lot of anger, even, right?

I think there's a generational split, too,
so people who are younger than maybe 45

all my cousins, younger aunts and uncles,
they're okay with it, they understand,

they're like, "OK, yeah, we accept you."
But then for my parents, my grandparents,

they either see my relationship with my
partner as "oh, that's your friend", or

"that's totally wrong, and
you're doing the bad things."

Professionally, my value system, I have
difficulty with the "coming out" narrative

and the desire for acceptance. You know,
I don't know if all of us "come out"

and then want some sort of legal
recognition.

Yes, me and my partner decided to become
engaged and eventually will get married,

but I don't know if marriage means for us

we want the state to recognize
our "love", right?

So for what do I think about the future of
the queer API community,

I think I'm hopeful for just more
conversation to happen,

not only within the Asian American
community, but thinking about the

transnational queer community 'cause
I think there's stuff for us to learn from

other models of being queer, right,

that may be don't get highlighted so much
in the States.

Yeah, I hope for more dialogue not only
between what does it mean to be gay

what does it mean to be queer, but what
does it mean to be Asian.

SGV, I think, is such an interesting
space. You walk out here and you're like,

"Oh, Asians everywhere.
This is some sort of Asian utopia, right?"

But that's not how it looks everywhere.

And I've had so many interesting
experiences here, where

I've talked to people who grew up here,
they're like,

"I've never experienced racism."

And I'm like, "What do you mean?
Who are you? Where did you grow up?"

But I think that's actually really common,
maybe, in the SGV versus when I was young

and I lived in places that were
predominantly non-Asian.

Racism was a daily experience in my life.

So, I think it's interesting to just ask
these questions,

and I think people are doing good work
to ask these questions.

I know at first, when I said, oh, I
"came out" to my family,

I didn't come out. So there's no, I think,
sometimes when we talk about coming out,

Oh, it's this thing where you have to prep
for it, and then,

oh, I'm going to tell everyone about my
innermost self.

And I didn't have that, I just -

I'm thirty-one, and I think even in my
generation, it was still sort of taboo

to be gay, whatever, right? But even then
I remember, I just told my parents,

"Yeah, I like girls", right?
And there wasn't a sense of

oh, now that I've told my parents this,
I know myself more, or I'm -

I don't know how to say this. It wasn't
this big, revolutionary moment,

which sometimes I feel there is a lot of
pressure for the queer community to have

this big, revolutionary "you have to
come out or else you're in the closet."

I just don't think that's the case.
You don't have to "come out".

You can just be you, and be like,
that's not that important.

And I think at least in my interviews, and
my own experience with tomboys, and

my own personal experience,
that is not the first step, you know?

I don't know what the first step is, but
it's definitely not announcing that

I am this special, unique sexual person.

I think if those are the inspirational
words you're looking for, maybe it's just,

You don't have to do it,
you don't have to come out,

You don't have to be like, "I'm gay, and
I want my rights."

You don't need that to be able to say
you're your "true self".

That's what I would say. Yeah.