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Comin up on Windows Weekly, Mary Jo
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explains CShell to those of us, me
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included, who don't know what it is, yet.
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Plus Apple is trying to become more like Microsoft
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while Microsoft is trying to become more like
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Apple. We talk about squiggles and stickers
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in Skype and a whole lot more Windows news.
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Stay tuned.
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Netcasts you love, from people you trust.
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This is TWiT. Bandwidth for Windows Weekly
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is provided by CacheFly. At C-A-C-H-E-F-L-Y.com.
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[music]
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This is Windows Weekly, episode 521, recorded
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Wednesday June 7, 2017.
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CShell by the Seashore
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This episode of Windows Weekly is brought to you
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by WordPress. Wordpress powers 27% of all
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websites - get 15% off your new website
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at wordpress.com/windows.
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That's wordpress.com/windows.
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And by Rocket Mortgage, by QuickenLoans.
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Home plays a big role in your life, that's why
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can be confident that you are getting the
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right mortgage, for you. Get started at
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rocketmortgage.com/windows.
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Welcome to Windows Weekly, this is the show
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where we talk all things Windows.
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Leo Laport is on vacation this week, so you've
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got me. But of course you've got your regulars
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Mary Jo Foley and Paul Thorot. Thank you
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so much for coming and sharing your
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Windows wisdom, Mary Jo and Paul.
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--Wow. Wit and wisdom.
--Windows, wisdom! That's W,w,w,w.
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Yes, wit and wisdom and Mary Jo, you just
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got back from Japan
-- I did.
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-- you posted some lovely pictures, how was
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it?
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It was really good. I had a great time.
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I barely worked which was unusual
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for me on a vacation.So that was good.
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--What devices did you bring?
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I brought the HP laptop that I've been
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using. And my Android phone, my Nexus 6P
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and that's it. No other devices.
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And those both worked ok?
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-- Yep.
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Awesome.
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-- Yeah I was using - Paul had talked up
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GoogleFi which is a network service
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you can use overseas and not pay exorbitant
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charges for, and so I used that with
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Google Translate and it was really great.
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Both made the trip way easier.
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And Paul held down the fort for you.
-- He did.
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--Yep.
Did you have a lot of jealousy at all
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of the Instagram pictures, Paul?
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Well, yeah, I actually - I think I said this
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to Mary Jo last week but you know the big
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difference for me, because she went to
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Japan before and she's been to what, like
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Thailand or Vietnam, sorry
--Cambodia.
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Yeah. You know because she can get online
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now she can post photos, so when she
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goes to these awesome places that I want
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to see it's like, well "take some pictures"
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And it's just great that she was able to
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post them. So I had to live vicariously
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but...
--They were perfect.
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And there wasn't the kind of annoying
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#LoveMyLife, hashtag [laughs]
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--Yeah not like she totally does.
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-- Yeah I do that a lot, super annoying
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Alright, we should get into the Windows
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news. Let's start with Windows 10 and
CShell, Mary Jo, you wanted to talk about
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CShell and I'm sure everyone watching this except me
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knows what CShell is so in case there's other people
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who don't know what CShell is, maybe you can
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tell us first what it is.
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--Well I'm not sure everybody does know
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because it's kind of a new concept
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There's been a lot of back and forth
about it on the Web
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over the past few months, I guess.
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I think it was Windows Central who wrote
the first story about it
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but CShell stands for Composable Shell.
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At first some of us thought that it was
Cloud Shell, but no.
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It's Composable Shell and it's basically
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an evolution of the Windows shell.
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So, the Windows Shell as probably
everybody listening
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to this podcast knows is the part of Windows
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that handles a lot of the systems
management parts of the
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operating system, so things like
the Start, Activity Center, Settings
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so that's what Shell is. So composable
shell is this new version of
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the shell that Microsoft's been building
that is going to make it easier
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for them to have a consistent shell across
all the different flavors of Windows 10.
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You know, we know that Windows 10
has the common core right now
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across all the different versions, like
the Xbox version, the HoloLens version
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Windows Phone version but what it
doesn't have is the common shell
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across all of those. And this is what
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this CShell effort is all about
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The reason it's interesting - there's a
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couple reasons it's interesting.
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One is Continuum as Microsoft's described
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it with Windows Phone doesn't really work
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that well right now. But based on some
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of the recent leaks from Leaked Builds,
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it looks like Continuum is going to get
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a lot better because of CShell
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CShell's gonna let you have more consistent
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things like context menus across all the
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difference versions of Windows now
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which I guess you don't have right now
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if you have Windows phone.
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Fast App Switching, so a lot of
the things that Windows Phone
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has been missing, are going to be
coming to it thanks to CShell.
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And if you've been following along
with all the rumors about what
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Surface Phone, or whatever the
next Microsoft mobile platform
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is going to be - CShell is one of the
pieces of this that's going to make
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it possible. So we don't really know what
the operating system flavor is going to
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be in whatever's next for Microsoft.
My speculation is Windows 10 on
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arm, with CShell on top of it,
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but whatever it is, CShell is going to
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make--kind of give Microsoft a way to
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try to come back in some form
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in the mobile space.
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So, that's why you should care about
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CShell and know what CShell is.
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[Paul laughs] Microsoft sells CShell down
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by the sea shore, that kind of thing.
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I was going to try to say that, but I knew
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it wasn't really going to work out.
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And I can't even speak normal sentences.
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This kind of reminds me of two things.
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You know, there's the componentization
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work that Microsoft did in Windows back
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in the Longhorn days, and then has
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improved over subsequent versions of
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Windows, and then there's also
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this notion of the fluent design system,
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this new user experience they're
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working on for Windows currently,
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that has been inspired by 3-D or mixed
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reality experiences. Where instead of
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simple mouse-over effects, you get light
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bleeding through. It's kind of inspired
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by real-world objects, I guess is
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the way to put it.
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And it seems like this is
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like that--like both of those things--
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but for the Shell. You know, that this
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is a way to componentize Windows
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in a new way that will help it on
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different device types,
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different form factors, and hopefully
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even on PCs it will result in
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a more modern look and feel as well.
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I mean, this is the one part of Windows
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kind of like the Mac where it really
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hasn't changed much in...I mean, forever.
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Twenty years? Twenty-five years?
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[Mary Jo, off-screen]: Right. Yeah.
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It's been a long time.
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And so I always joke--fluent,
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so this Fluent design language,
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I seem to be inept at actually
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understanding it.
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[Paul laughs}
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And seeing it, like when people put up
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a picture, they'll be like,
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"Look at Fluent, doesn't that look great?"
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And I'm like, "Does it look different?
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I don't know."
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I'm just not a design person.
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[Paul, off-screen]: It's certainly subtle.
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Subtle changes, yeah.
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So as long as you brought up
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Surface Mobile, is it time to talk about
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the rumors of a Surface phone,
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but "Surface Mobile" is what it might
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be called?
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Mary Jo: Yeah. Here we go again.
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Another rumor. This is another rumor
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That came up this week thanks to our buddy
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the Watching Cat, also known as
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H0X0D on Twitter.
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He found a Chinese website
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that had supposedly captured something
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that Microsoft in China displayed
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very briefly that said,
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"This is Microsoft Surface Mobile."
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Which is a horrible name, by the way.
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And hopefully just not real at all.
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[Laughs] But he and some others
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who were translating the text
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of one of the leakers who found this
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and it mentioned Continuum,
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it mentioned Snap Dragon as being
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the processor.
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It mentioned two things
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that look like new code names:
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Surface Payking and Surface Lavonia,
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and it also mentioned something called
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Onto Table. Which people are interpreting
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to be projecting from a phone
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onto a table
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instead of onto a large screen monitor
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or a TV.
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[Paul, off-screen]: Right.
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So the question is, is any of this real,
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and even the most enthusiastic sites
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are kind of doubting it.
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They're saying, "Eh, I don't know
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if this is real, it looks kind of fake.
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Looks made-up. Looks Photoshopped."
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There isn't a picture of the device,
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but even the wording and the logo
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don't really match up correctly, so
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they're like, "Is it real? I don't know."
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I've been trying to track down is it real,
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is any part of this real, and my answer is
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so far I can't find anybody who knows
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or who thinks it is real.
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[Paul, off-screen]: This seems to have
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come right out of the conversation
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that you and I had. [Laughs]
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You know, some months ago on the podcast,
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and it was you who said,
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"You know, we keep thinking of this thing
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as Surface phone, but you felt that,
-
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and I don't remember if this is an opinion
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or based on some information you had
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from sources, but this thing would be
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a different kind of mobile device,
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and yet I think you literally coined
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the term "Surface Mobile" as maybe
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a more accurate way to describe it.
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Mary Jo [off-screen]: Hey, don't blame me!
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[Mary-Jo laughs]
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So Mary-Jo's e-mail address is, uh,
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M-J-M at...
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[Mary-Jo laughs] Oh, man.
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You know, I think whatever Microsoft
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does do in mobile next is going to be
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probably a device that can be more
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than one thing, like we keep hearing
-
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maybe it's a phone--well, maybe it's
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a tablet, right, that has
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telephony capabilities,
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but what's interesting about this rumor
-
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from this week is it never mentions
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telephony at all, and it makes it look
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more like it's a phone that can transform
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into a tablet, and then use Continuum
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to transform into
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another kind of experience.
-
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So, I don't know. When I saw the rumor,
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the first thing I did was go back and look
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at one of those envisioning videos
-
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that Microsoft used to do.
-
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I think the last one they did was 2015,
-
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when they showed a glimpse of the future,
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and there are a whole bunch
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of pictures in there of people
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holding something that looks like a phone
-
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and kind of making a gesture
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like they're sending it to something
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and then it shows up on the wall,
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or it shows up on a mirror.
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Paul [off-screen]: Yes. Is this the one
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where it looks like a really flat thing,
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where the phone is almost just the screen?
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Yeah.
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So I don't know if the rumor
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is kind of reflecting an evolved version
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of that idea.
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Paul [off-screen]: By the way,
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that's a very visual version
-
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of this notion of ambient computing.
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If you think about a home as a Google home
-
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in each room, or something, you could
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walk around the house and talk to it,
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you could extend that out into the world,
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but of course you often need something
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to look at, a screen of some kind.