9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Comin up on Windows Weekly, Mary Jo 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 explains CShell to those of us, me 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 included, who don't know what it is, yet. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Plus Apple is trying to become more like Microsoft 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 while Microsoft is trying to become more like 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Apple. We talk about squiggles and stickers 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 in Skype and a whole lot more Windows news. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Stay tuned. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Netcasts you love, from people you trust. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 This is TWiT. Bandwidth for Windows Weekly 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 is provided by CacheFly. At C-A-C-H-E-F-L-Y.com. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [music] 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 This is Windows Weekly, episode 521, recorded 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Wednesday June 7, 2017. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 CShell by the Seashore 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 This episode of Windows Weekly is brought to you 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 by WordPress. Wordpress powers 27% of all 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 websites - get 15% off your new website 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 at wordpress.com/windows. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That's wordpress.com/windows. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And by Rocket Mortgage, by QuickenLoans. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Home plays a big role in your life, that's why 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 QuickenLoan created Rocket Mortgage. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It lets you apply simple and understand the entire 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 mortgage process fully so that you 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 can be confident that you are getting the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 right mortgage, for you. Get started at 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 rocketmortgage.com/windows. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Welcome to Windows Weekly, this is the show 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 where we talk all things Windows. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Leo Laport is on vacation this week, so you've 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 got me. But of course you've got your regulars 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Mary Jo Foley and Paul Thorot. Thank you 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so much for coming and sharing your 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Windows wisdom, Mary Jo and Paul. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 --Wow. Wit and wisdom.[br]--Windows, wisdom! That's W,w,w,w. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, wit and wisdom and Mary Jo, you just 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 got back from Japan[br]-- I did. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 -- you posted some lovely pictures, how was 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It was really good. I had a great time. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I barely worked which was unusual 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 for me on a vacation.So that was good. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 --What devices did you bring? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I brought the HP laptop that I've been 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 using. And my Android phone, my Nexus 6P 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and that's it. No other devices. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And those both worked ok? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 -- Yep. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Awesome. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 -- Yeah I was using - Paul had talked up 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 GoogleFi which is a network service 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you can use overseas and not pay exorbitant 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 charges for, and so I used that with 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Google Translate and it was really great. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Both made the trip way easier. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And Paul held down the fort for you. [br]-- He did. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 --Yep. [br]Did you have a lot of jealousy at all 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of the Instagram pictures, Paul? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Well, yeah, I actually - I think I said this 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to Mary Jo last week but you know the big 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 difference for me, because she went to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Japan before and she's been to what, like 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Thailand or Vietnam, sorry[br]--Cambodia. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yeah. You know because she can get online 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 now she can post photos, so when she 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 goes to these awesome places that I want 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to see it's like, well "take some pictures" 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And it's just great that she was able to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 post them. So I had to live vicariously 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but...[br]--They were perfect. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And there wasn't the kind of annoying 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 #LoveMyLife, hashtag [laughs] 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 --Yeah not like she totally does. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 -- Yeah I do that a lot, super annoying 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Alright, we should get into the Windows 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 news. Let's start with Windows 10 and[br]CShell, Mary Jo, you wanted to talk about 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 CShell and I'm sure everyone watching this except me[br] 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 knows what CShell is so in case there's other people 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 who don't know what CShell is, maybe you can 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 tell us first what it is. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 --Well I'm not sure everybody does know 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 because it's kind of a new concept 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There's been a lot of back and forth [br]about it on the Web 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 over the past few months, I guess. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I think it was Windows Central who wrote [br]the first story about it 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but CShell stands for Composable Shell. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 At first some of us thought that it was [br]Cloud Shell, but no. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's Composable Shell and it's basically 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 an evolution of the Windows shell. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, the Windows Shell as probably [br]everybody listening 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to this podcast knows is the part of Windows 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that handles a lot of the systems [br]management parts of the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 operating system, so things like[br]the Start, Activity Center, Settings 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so that's what Shell is. So composable[br]shell is this new version of 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the shell that Microsoft's been building[br]that is going to make it easier 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 for them to have a consistent shell across[br]all the different flavors of Windows 10. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You know, we know that Windows 10[br]has the common core right now 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 across all the different versions, like[br]the Xbox version, the HoloLens version 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Windows Phone version but what it[br]doesn't have is the common shell 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 across all of those. And this is what 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 this CShell effort is all about 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The reason it's interesting - there's a 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 couple reasons it's interesting. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 One is Continuum as Microsoft's described 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it with Windows Phone doesn't really work 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that well right now. But based on some 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of the recent leaks from Leaked Builds, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it looks like Continuum is going to get 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a lot better because of CShell 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 CShell's gonna let you have more consistent 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 things like context menus across all the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 difference versions of Windows now 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 which I guess you don't have right now 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 if you have Windows phone. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Fast App Switching, so a lot of[br]the things that Windows Phone 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 has been missing, are going to be[br]coming to it thanks to CShell. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And if you've been following along[br]with all the rumors about what 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Surface Phone, or whatever the[br]next Microsoft mobile platform 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 is going to be - CShell is one of the[br]pieces of this that's going to make 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it possible. So we don't really know what[br]the operating system flavor is going to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 be in whatever's next for Microsoft.[br]My speculation is Windows 10 on 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 arm, with CShell on top of it, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but whatever it is, CShell is going to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 make--kind of give Microsoft a way to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 try to come back in some form 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 in the mobile space. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, that's why you should care about 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 CShell and know what CShell is. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [Paul laughs] Microsoft sells CShell down 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 by the sea shore, that kind of thing. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I was going to try to say that, but I knew 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it wasn't really going to work out. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And I can't even speak normal sentences. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 This kind of reminds me of two things. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You know, there's the componentization 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 work that Microsoft did in Windows back 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 in the Longhorn days, and then has 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 improved over subsequent versions of 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Windows, and then there's also 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 this notion of the fluent design system, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 this new user experience they're 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 working on for Windows currently, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that has been inspired by 3-D or mixed 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 reality experiences. Where instead of 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 simple mouse-over effects, you get light 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 bleeding through. It's kind of inspired 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 by real-world objects, I guess is 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the way to put it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And it seems like this is 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 like that--like both of those things-- 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but for the Shell. You know, that this 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 is a way to componentize Windows 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 in a new way that will help it on 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 different device types, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 different form factors, and hopefully 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 even on PCs it will result in 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a more modern look and feel as well. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I mean, this is the one part of Windows 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 kind of like the Mac where it really 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 hasn't changed much in...I mean, forever. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Twenty years? Twenty-five years? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [Mary Jo, off-screen]: Right. Yeah. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's been a long time. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And so I always joke--fluent, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so this Fluent design language, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I seem to be inept at actually 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 understanding it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [Paul laughs} 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And seeing it, like when people put up 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a picture, they'll be like, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "Look at Fluent, doesn't that look great?" 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And I'm like, "Does it look different? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I don't know." 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I'm just not a design person. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [Paul, off-screen]: It's certainly subtle. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Subtle changes, yeah. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So as long as you brought up 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Surface Mobile, is it time to talk about 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the rumors of a Surface phone, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but "Surface Mobile" is what it might 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 be called? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Mary Jo: Yeah. Here we go again. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Another rumor. This is another rumor 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That came up this week thanks to our buddy 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the Watching Cat, also known as 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 H0X0D on Twitter. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 He found a Chinese website 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that had supposedly captured something 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that Microsoft in China displayed 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 very briefly that said, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "This is Microsoft Surface Mobile." 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Which is a horrible name, by the way. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And hopefully just not real at all. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [Laughs] But he and some others 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 who were translating the text 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of one of the leakers who found this 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and it mentioned Continuum, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it mentioned Snap Dragon as being 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the processor. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It mentioned two things 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that look like new code names: 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Surface Payking and Surface Lavonia, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and it also mentioned something called 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Onto Table. Which people are interpreting 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to be projecting from a phone 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 onto a table 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 instead of onto a large screen monitor 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or a TV. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [Paul, off-screen]: Right. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So the question is, is any of this real, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and even the most enthusiastic sites 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 are kind of doubting it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 They're saying, "Eh, I don't know 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 if this is real, it looks kind of fake. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Looks made-up. Looks Photoshopped." 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There isn't a picture of the device, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but even the wording and the logo 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 don't really match up correctly, so 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 they're like, "Is it real? I don't know." 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I've been trying to track down is it real, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 is any part of this real, and my answer is 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so far I can't find anybody who knows 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or who thinks it is real. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [Paul, off-screen]: This seems to have 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 come right out of the conversation 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that you and I had. [Laughs] 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You know, some months ago on the podcast, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and it was you who said, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "You know, we keep thinking of this thing 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 as Surface phone, but you felt that, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and I don't remember if this is an opinion 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or based on some information you had 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 from sources, but this thing would be 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a different kind of mobile device, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and yet I think you literally coined 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the term "Surface Mobile" as maybe 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a more accurate way to describe it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Mary Jo [off-screen]: Hey, don't blame me! 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [Mary-Jo laughs] 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So Mary-Jo's e-mail address is, uh, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 M-J-M at... 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [Mary-Jo laughs] Oh, man. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You know, I think whatever Microsoft 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 does do in mobile next is going to be 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 probably a device that can be more 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 than one thing, like we keep hearing 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 maybe it's a phone--well, maybe it's 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a tablet, right, that has 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 telephony capabilities, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but what's interesting about this rumor 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 from this week is it never mentions 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 telephony at all, and it makes it look 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 more like it's a phone that can transform 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 into a tablet, and then use Continuum 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to transform into 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 another kind of experience. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, I don't know. When I saw the rumor, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the first thing I did was go back and look 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 at one of those envisioning videos 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that Microsoft used to do. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I think the last one they did was 2015, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 when they showed a glimpse of the future, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and there are a whole bunch 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of pictures in there of people 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 holding something that looks like a phone 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and kind of making a gesture 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 like they're sending it to something 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and then it shows up on the wall, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or it shows up on a mirror. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Paul [off-screen]: Yes. Is this the one 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 where it looks like a really flat thing, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 where the phone is almost just the screen? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yeah. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So I don't know if the rumor 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 is kind of reflecting an evolved version 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of that idea. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Paul [off-screen]: By the way, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that's a very visual version 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of this notion of ambient computing. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you think about a home as a Google home 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 in each room, or something, you could 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 walk around the house and talk to it, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you could extend that out into the world, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but of course you often need something 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to look at, a screen of some kind.