How dogs love us | Gregory Berns | TEDxAtlanta
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0:18 - 0:20How many of you are dog people?
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0:20 - 0:22A show of hands.
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0:22 - 0:23Excellent!
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0:23 - 0:25How about cat people?
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0:25 - 0:27OK, you guys can go to the break early.
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0:27 - 0:29(Laughter)
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0:30 - 0:32So, of the dog people
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0:32 - 0:35and the cat people
who want to be dog people, -
0:35 - 0:36(Laughter)
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0:36 - 0:37how many of you have thought,
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0:37 - 0:41"Wouldn't it be great to know
what my dog is thinking?" -
0:42 - 0:46I think everyone else already knows
what their dog is thinking, right? -
0:48 - 0:50I got into this project,
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0:50 - 0:53and I'm going to tell you
a little bit about how - -
0:54 - 0:58This is basically
a stupid dog trick story. -
0:58 - 1:01It really started
with this dog named Newton, -
1:01 - 1:04who was really my favorite dog.
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1:04 - 1:08I've had many dogs through my life,
but Newton was my favorite, -
1:08 - 1:11and he lived to be about 15 years old.
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1:11 - 1:14After he passed away, I thought,
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1:14 - 1:18I have these tools, this MRI machine,
that I have been using for decades -
1:18 - 1:23to study human decision making
and what motivates people, -
1:23 - 1:25why haven't we used this on other animals?
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1:25 - 1:27Certainly, other animals
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1:27 - 1:31have many of the same feelings
and motivations that people do. -
1:31 - 1:35But this is kind of an area of science
that people don't like to talk about. -
1:36 - 1:39So I embarked on this project
about four years ago -
1:39 - 1:44to try to figure out what dogs think,
and specifically what dogs think of us. -
1:46 - 1:48If we're talking about humans,
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1:48 - 1:49we have kind of two ways
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1:49 - 1:52we can think about what
other people are thinking: -
1:52 - 1:55we can either ask them,
and sometimes they will tell us -
1:55 - 2:00if they know, and they want us
to know what they are thinking; -
2:00 - 2:03or we can observe actions,
we can observe behaviors, -
2:03 - 2:07we can try to infer things about what
people are thinking from their actions. -
2:09 - 2:13With animals, and dogs, of course,
we can't really ask them. -
2:13 - 2:15We can ask them,
and we may think that they tell us, -
2:15 - 2:18but we really don't know
what they're thinking. -
2:18 - 2:20So we're kind of left
with their behaviors: -
2:20 - 2:21we can observe their actions,
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2:21 - 2:24and we can try to infer
what they are thinking. -
2:25 - 2:30This is the foundation of behaviorism,
and it's been around since Pavlov. -
2:31 - 2:34But there are, of course,
very tricky issues here, -
2:34 - 2:38and humans being humans,
we tend to anthropomorphize everything. -
2:39 - 2:40It's kind of in this area
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2:40 - 2:43that I became very interested
in intrigued with the possibility -
2:43 - 2:48of trying to figure out what dogs
are thinking by using MRI. -
2:50 - 2:53The technique is straightforward.
It's been around for decades. -
2:53 - 2:56The idea is: if we were studying a human,
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2:56 - 3:00we would put a human in an MRI,
have them do some type of task, -
3:00 - 3:03and we'd measure blood flow
or brain activity -
3:03 - 3:06and then try to figure out
what parts of the brain do what. -
3:06 - 3:09Very straightforward,
if you've had an MRI, -
3:09 - 3:12it's not terribly pleasant,
but people will do it. -
3:13 - 3:17How do we do this with other animals?
How do we do it with a dog? -
3:18 - 3:21I'm going to show you what we found.
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3:21 - 3:22Here's a short video.
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3:22 - 3:27It's a what we call our training video,
and it demonstrates how we did this. -
3:27 - 3:28Before I start it,
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3:28 - 3:30you're going to see
two dogs in this video. -
3:30 - 3:33The first dog, Callie, is my dog.
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3:33 - 3:36She was actually
the replacement for Newton. -
3:36 - 3:39She was adopted here in Atlanta
from the Humane Society. -
3:39 - 3:43We loved Newton so much;
we could never get another pug, -
3:43 - 3:45so Callie is the anti-pug.
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3:46 - 3:49The other dog is McKenzie,
a border collie. -
3:50 - 3:52We just kind of get right into it.
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3:52 - 3:54I'll narrate as we go along.
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3:54 - 3:57[Callie - Introduction to head coil]
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3:57 - 3:58This's Mark Spivak.
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3:58 - 4:02He's my partner in this endeavor,
he's a dog trainer. -
4:02 - 4:04The first thing that we had to do
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4:04 - 4:07is figure out how do we get dogs
to go into a tube, -
4:07 - 4:11to put a head coil around their head
to pick up the brain waves, -
4:11 - 4:13and hold absolutely still.
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4:14 - 4:18What you are seeing here, is that
Callie is not a particularly obedient dog; -
4:18 - 4:21she has no particularly special skills.
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4:24 - 4:28But she does have one very good trait,
and that is: she likes hot dogs. -
4:30 - 4:33Mark is doing what we call
clicker training. -
4:33 - 4:35Every time she approximates
what we want her to do, -
4:35 - 4:38he clicks, and then she gets a hot dog.
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4:39 - 4:41This's the very first time
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4:41 - 4:44she's been introduced
to the thing we call the head coil, -
4:44 - 4:46and we didn't know at this point
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4:46 - 4:48whether this was even
going to be possible. -
4:48 - 4:50[McKenzie - Introduction to head coil]
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4:50 - 4:53This dog, McKenzie,
a border collie, is highly trained. -
4:53 - 4:55She's very skilled in agility,
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4:55 - 5:01and her owner, as you'll see,
gets her to sit in this coil very quickly. -
5:02 - 5:05(Video) Dog owner: Good girl!
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5:05 - 5:07Yes!
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5:08 - 5:09Is she too far out now?
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5:09 - 5:11(Video) Gregory Berns: Yeah, basically,
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5:11 - 5:18we are looking for the brain case
to be in the center, right there. -
5:18 - 5:19That's good.
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5:19 - 5:22(On stage) GB: If you've had an MRI,
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5:23 - 5:26you know that you're told
not to move, right? -
5:26 - 5:28This is the big challenge of doing this.
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5:28 - 5:31[Mckenzie - Holding without any chin rest]
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5:31 - 5:32Up until this point,
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5:32 - 5:35I didn't know if this was going
to be possible until I saw this. -
5:35 - 5:39This was literally
after about five minutes of training. -
5:46 - 5:49When I saw that, I knew we could do this.
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5:54 - 5:58[Callie - Training with chin rest]
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5:58 - 6:02What you saw McKenzie doing was close
but not quite good enough. -
6:02 - 6:04What we are going after
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6:04 - 6:08if we're to achieve data
that compares to humans - -
6:08 - 6:13(Video) GB: You are perfect!
Excellent! Perfect job! -
6:13 - 6:16(On stage) GB: Mark told me
I had to be more demonstrative -
6:16 - 6:17than I am normally.
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6:17 - 6:20(Laughter)
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6:20 - 6:22(Video) GB: Perfect! Yes!
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6:22 - 6:24(Laughter)
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6:27 - 6:30(On stage) GB: What you notice we did
was we introduced a little chin rest -
6:30 - 6:34because we have to give the dogs
a target to put their head on. -
6:34 - 6:37McKenzie adapts this very quickly.
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6:37 - 6:41She's actually in a simulator
for an MRI that we built. -
6:42 - 6:43She's doing quite well,
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6:43 - 6:46but this is actually
still too much movement. -
6:47 - 6:52The really difficult part of this
is the noise that the scanner makes, -
6:52 - 6:53playing in the background.
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6:53 - 6:57These are recordings that we made
to acclimate the dogs to the training. -
6:58 - 7:00It's very loud.
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7:00 - 7:03This's being played at low volume
just to get her used to it. -
7:03 - 7:05But it's really about 95 decibels,
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7:05 - 7:07and it's like jackhammer loud.
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7:07 - 7:10(Video) GB: That's it,
that what we are doing! -
7:10 - 7:13(On stage) GB: This is after
about a month or two of training. -
7:13 - 7:14[Callie - Scammer training]
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7:14 - 7:17We're at the real MRI now.
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7:18 - 7:23This's probably the most expensive
training session ever performed. -
7:23 - 7:26(Laughter)
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7:26 - 7:30We get charged about 500 dollars
an hour to use the MRI. -
7:32 - 7:34(Laughter)
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7:37 - 7:40But we had to use the real thing
at a certain point. -
7:40 - 7:44At this point, we didn't even know how
they would react to the magnetic field. -
7:46 - 7:49The key thing I want you to notice
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7:49 - 7:54is these dogs are doing it willingly,
and they enjoy it. -
7:54 - 7:56That is the whole point of this project.
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7:58 - 8:01We treat these animals
as family members. -
8:01 - 8:03We don't sedate them,
and we don't restrain them. -
8:03 - 8:05[Callie - Final training]
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8:05 - 8:07This's actually after
about two months of training. -
8:07 - 8:10We made some modifications
to the chin rest, -
8:11 - 8:14and even a shelter dog
like Callie can do this. -
8:14 - 8:16[Full chin rest, ear muffs,
tube, hand signals] -
8:16 - 8:20If you look carefully, you also notice
that she's wearing ear muffs. -
8:22 - 8:23It's very important
-
8:23 - 8:27because the scanner is so loud,
and the dogs hearing is quite sensitive. -
8:29 - 8:30[This means "hot dog"]
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8:30 - 8:32The other thing that we did -
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8:32 - 8:35(Laughter)
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8:37 - 8:39This's a scientific experiment, really.
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8:39 - 8:40(Laughter)
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8:40 - 8:43[This means "no hot dog"]
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8:46 - 8:48That's the training video.
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8:48 - 8:50The "hot dog, no hot dog" hand signals,
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8:50 - 8:51we started with this
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8:51 - 8:53because we didn't know
if this was going to work, -
8:53 - 8:56so we decided we needed
to do something really simple. -
8:56 - 9:00This's just straight up
Pavlovian conditioning -
9:00 - 9:02where we taught the dogs
two hand signals: -
9:02 - 9:04this means "hot dog,"
and this means "no hot dog." -
9:05 - 9:07If this technique works,
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9:07 - 9:12what we should see is activity
in the reward system of their brain -
9:12 - 9:15to this hand signal but not this signal.
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9:16 - 9:20I also put up a slide here.
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9:20 - 9:22Once we started doing this,
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9:22 - 9:24the word got out amongst
the community here in Atlanta -
9:24 - 9:28that we're doing this crazy
dog scanning project. -
9:28 - 9:29We're looking for volunteers,
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9:29 - 9:34especially people who like to train dogs
and have dogs that are very well behaved. -
9:34 - 9:35That's still true.
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9:35 - 9:39If you have a dog that can do this
or you think can do this, talk to me. -
9:39 - 9:43Because the project is still going on,
and it's gotten quite large. -
9:45 - 9:47You've seen the kind of preliminary video.
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9:47 - 9:51This's one of my favorite photos
because it's kind of captures - -
9:51 - 9:54this is the first day
we were actually doing the scanning. -
9:54 - 9:56It captures the human confusion here.
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9:56 - 10:01We were just standing around trying
to figure out how we are going to do this. -
10:01 - 10:05But Callie knows, she's been trained,
she's been doing this for two months; -
10:05 - 10:07so she's ready to go.
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10:08 - 10:12The head wrap is just
to keep the ear muffs in place. -
10:13 - 10:15This is what it look likes
from the other end, -
10:15 - 10:17from the business end of the scanner.
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10:17 - 10:21This's actually a dog named Zen.
He's a yellow lab golden retriever. -
10:25 - 10:30What we're studying initially
is just the reward system response. -
10:30 - 10:33Very simply, we got
these two hand signals, -
10:33 - 10:36and the idea is we compare
the brain response to these two things. -
10:39 - 10:42As I said, we have many dogs
doing this now, -
10:42 - 10:44it's not just shelter dogs.
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10:44 - 10:47We have dogs from
service dog organizations, -
10:47 - 10:51we have shelter dogs -
really all sorts of breeds. -
10:52 - 10:54Before I show you some of the results,
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10:54 - 10:57I do want to say something
about brain anatomy. -
10:58 - 11:02A dog brain - this slide is not to scale.
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11:02 - 11:08A dog brain is probably about the size
of a plum or a lemon maybe, -
11:08 - 11:10depending on the size of the dog.
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11:10 - 11:14It's not big, even if you have a big dog,
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11:14 - 11:18most of the head is muscle,
so just going to be aware of that. -
11:18 - 11:20But I like putting up this slide
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11:20 - 11:24because it shows
the similarities of animal brains. -
11:24 - 11:27You can immediately
make out common structures. -
11:27 - 11:31You can see towards the right
that kind of pretty structure -
11:31 - 11:35is the cerebellum that controls
various types of motor movement, -
11:35 - 11:38and then below that,
there is the brainstem. -
11:38 - 11:40The really the parts of the brain
that are different -
11:40 - 11:42are what we call the cortex.
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11:42 - 11:45That's the upper part, the folded part.
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11:45 - 11:50The big differences between dog and human
have to do with the size of the cortex -
11:50 - 11:52and how folded it is.
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11:52 - 11:54What folding accomplishes
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11:54 - 11:59is packing a lot more brain surface area
into a specific volume. -
11:59 - 12:00Generally speaking,
-
12:00 - 12:03the more folded a brain,
the more surface area, -
12:03 - 12:05the more brain power, if you will.
-
12:06 - 12:10There are lot of similarities,
and there are some differences. -
12:10 - 12:13What I am particularly interested in
are the similarities. -
12:13 - 12:17Because if we were to have a commonality
of experience with dogs, -
12:17 - 12:19and other animals for that matter,
-
12:19 - 12:23we have to share the same
or similar brain structures. -
12:23 - 12:26Darwin said this 150 years ago.
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12:27 - 12:30What do the results look like?
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12:30 - 12:34This's a very compact way
of summarizing an experiment -
12:34 - 12:38which I showed you where the dogs
receive two different hand signals, -
12:38 - 12:41and we've averaged the results over,
in this case, 12 dogs, -
12:41 - 12:45I think though, we've done this
probably in over 20 dogs. -
12:46 - 12:47The orange areas show
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12:47 - 12:52what parts of the brain are more active
to this reward signal, -
12:52 - 12:54this hot dog signal.
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12:55 - 12:56What I want to emphasize
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12:56 - 13:01is the brain response
is not directly to hot dogs, -
13:01 - 13:04it's to the hand signal
that means hot dogs. -
13:05 - 13:08You may think that's not a big deal;
it's still hot dogs. -
13:08 - 13:11It's no surprise that dogs like hot dogs.
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13:11 - 13:13But it is a big deal
because we train this signal; -
13:13 - 13:19it's a symbolic representation
of a hot dog that the dog has learned -
13:19 - 13:21and has learned
to recognize this meaning. -
13:23 - 13:24The particular parts of the brain
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13:24 - 13:27that are being active
are the reward system. -
13:27 - 13:29There's kind of two hot spots.
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13:29 - 13:32There's a headlight type picture.
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13:32 - 13:34That's in an area of the brain
called the cortex nucleus. -
13:34 - 13:38It's the area of the brain
that all mammals have, -
13:38 - 13:41and it's the area that has the most
dopamine receptors in the brain. -
13:41 - 13:46It's kind of the key center that links
reward and motivation with action. -
13:46 - 13:50Normally, when that's active
in a human or any other animal, -
13:50 - 13:52it means that something
important has happened, -
13:52 - 13:55and the animal needs to do something.
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13:55 - 13:58In this case it's quite simple
because they will just eat the hot dogs. -
14:00 - 14:03Well, so what?
-
14:03 - 14:06So we proved that dog brains
like hot dogs. -
14:08 - 14:10That was just the beginning.
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14:10 - 14:13This started about four years ago,
-
14:13 - 14:17and we've since gone on
and done many other experiments. -
14:17 - 14:23Most of the dogs in these pictures,
are still working with us in the project. -
14:23 - 14:25We've done things looking at
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14:25 - 14:30how their olfaction,
or their sensory system for smell works, -
14:30 - 14:33how they identify different people,
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14:33 - 14:36and other dogs
in their household by smell. -
14:36 - 14:40One of the things that we found
is that this reward system, -
14:40 - 14:45the same part of the brain activates
when the dogs smell a familiar human, -
14:45 - 14:47even if the human is not there.
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14:48 - 14:51It shows that dogs
have representations of us -
14:51 - 14:55of our identities that persist
when we are not there. -
14:56 - 15:00When people ask me,
"Do dogs miss us when we are gone?" -
15:00 - 15:05I have to say yes because we find evidence
that they are remembering their humans, -
15:05 - 15:06that they care about them,
-
15:06 - 15:09and that it's associated
with these reward responses. -
15:11 - 15:13Is it still just hot dogs?
-
15:14 - 15:17To answer this question,
one of the other things that we did -
15:17 - 15:19was we actually repeated
the experiment I showed you, -
15:19 - 15:22where we show
the different hand signals. -
15:22 - 15:27With one little twist:
we manipulate who gives the signals. -
15:27 - 15:30Does it matter if the dog's
owner gives a signal? -
15:30 - 15:32Or whether a stranger comes in
and gives the signal? -
15:32 - 15:35Or even whether a computer
gives the signal? -
15:35 - 15:40Because if you believe Pavlov,
and all the behaviorist who followed him, -
15:40 - 15:41it really shouldn't matter,
-
15:41 - 15:47because any signal that indicates
an upcoming food treat is all the same, -
15:47 - 15:51if animals and dogs
are just kind of robots. -
15:51 - 15:53But in fact, we did find a difference.
-
15:53 - 15:58What's very interesting about it
is that not all dogs are the same. -
15:58 - 16:01For example, my dog Callie
had a much greater response -
16:01 - 16:03in that part of the brain
-
16:03 - 16:06when a stranger gave the signals
or even a computer -
16:06 - 16:07as opposed to me!
-
16:07 - 16:10(Laughter)
-
16:11 - 16:13Other dogs in the project,
-
16:13 - 16:17some of the golden retrievers in the labs
can have had the opposite pattern, -
16:17 - 16:21where their owners had really elicited
the strongest brain response. -
16:23 - 16:24This is very interesting
-
16:24 - 16:26because what it does is it provides us
-
16:26 - 16:31with a neural biomarker
of the dog's personality profile. -
16:31 - 16:34In fact, what we've done
is we've spun off a new project -
16:34 - 16:37which we're very excited about.
-
16:37 - 16:38We've partnered
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16:38 - 16:40with Canine Companions for Independence,
-
16:40 - 16:46which is the largest service dog training
organization in the United States. -
16:46 - 16:51If you know anything about service dogs,
they're incredibly difficult to train. -
16:51 - 16:55It's very expensive,
and there's a very low success rate. -
16:55 - 16:59Roughly about 35% of dogs
that enter these programs -
16:59 - 17:02to train to be assistance dogs
will succeed; -
17:02 - 17:07the other 2/3 end up being released
and adopted to their puppy raisers. -
17:07 - 17:09So we've partnered with CCI,
-
17:09 - 17:14and they're actually training their dogs
to do the MRI procedure. -
17:14 - 17:16What we're going to do
is try to predict -
17:16 - 17:19which of those dogs
will actually be good service dogs. -
17:21 - 17:23I really love this project
-
17:23 - 17:26because it shows
that even though we started this -
17:26 - 17:29just as my silly example
of trying to understand -
17:29 - 17:32what my dogs think,
and whether they love me, -
17:32 - 17:33it's actually gotten much bigger.
-
17:34 - 17:37Dogs are special.
-
17:37 - 17:40They're the first domesticated animals.
-
17:40 - 17:43They have been with humans
since humans have been humans. -
17:44 - 17:46When we look at their brains,
-
17:46 - 17:48it's almost like we
are looking back in time, -
17:48 - 17:53and it's giving us a picture
of how the dog-human bond formed. -
17:53 - 17:53Thank you.
-
17:53 - 17:56(Applause)
- Title:
- How dogs love us | Gregory Berns | TEDxAtlanta
- Description:
-
This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at http://ted.com/tedx
Ever wondered what your dog is thinking? Does he really miss you when you’re gone? Finally, we have the answer, thanks to MRI technology.
Dr. Gregory Berns is revealing how our mind works, helping us to explore unknown connections along the way. Using advanced brain imaging technologies in his extensive research, Dr. Gregory Berns has helped us better understand human motivation and decision-making. His most recent work explores and details how dogs love us, uncovering the empathy and the bonds we both feel. Dr Berns' research is frequently the subject of popular media coverage including articles in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Money, Oprah, Forbes, The Financial Times, Wired, The New Scientists and the International Herald Tribune. He is the author of the New York Times bestseller How Dogs Love Us and also speaks frequently on CNN and NPR.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDxTalks
- Duration:
- 18:03
Nataliia Pysemska commented on English subtitles for How dogs love us | Gregory Berns | TEDxAtlanta | ||
Peter van de Ven edited English subtitles for How dogs love us | Gregory Berns | TEDxAtlanta | ||
Peter van de Ven edited English subtitles for How dogs love us | Gregory Berns | TEDxAtlanta | ||
Peter van de Ven edited English subtitles for How dogs love us | Gregory Berns | TEDxAtlanta | ||
Peter van de Ven edited English subtitles for How dogs love us | Gregory Berns | TEDxAtlanta | ||
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Retired user edited English subtitles for How dogs love us | Gregory Berns | TEDxAtlanta | ||
Retired user edited English subtitles for How dogs love us | Gregory Berns | TEDxAtlanta |
Nataliia Pysemska
First of all, I would like to thank you for transcribing this ineresting and inspiring video!
I found two small mistakes in the original subtitles.
7:12 Scanner, not scammer
13:31 It's caudatus (or cauda) nucleus, not cortex nucleus
Could you please fix them?
Thank you in advance!