Spain Andre

Introduction?

My name is Andres, I am 22

I belong to the Spanish Chapter

I've been working in design until now, images, audio-visual...

I also helped with the website, and I was quite a while in coordination in a project about making a documentary for

Zeitgeist Spain, and everything related to awareness events either in the streets

or conferences etc... I usually am a speaker, we could say.

And in regard to the movement, I move from a role to another, I don't have a specific position.

I've been moderating the forums and pages on Facebook for quite a while, and everything related to promotion and well, that's it.

Why do you support TZM? The reasons? Basically, what do you see in it?

I see... Let's say I see a lot more in all the content that has been exposed in all the evidence,

all the different parts that were exposed throughout

the documentaries, guides, conversations... I can see a real content,

meaning I can see much more ,you could say, in symbiosis with what really happens in the planet

not depending on just and ideology or conviction. And that's what convinced me to support this cause unlike many others.

Of course I've been presented with all kind of causes over the years.

from communism to anarchism and all the other known causes.

But they never got my attention because I never saw the radicalism in them

The radical thing, meaning going to the root, but in the good sense of the word, not the bad one.

All that is radical but not superficial

to analize the problems that we really have in the world.

This was the only approach that felt coherent enough.

That it didn't contradict any other aspects of reality.

Another aspect that caught my attention was that it was not geographically related. The problems always exists...

in Sweden as well as in Spain or in Argentina

the problems caused by the monetary system are the same, they can be recognized exactly the same.

they can be accepted more easily or be denied, depending on where it is. But the problems do exist.

It's not something that is linked to a small part of the planet

or a small local problem in one country or another. It's something Global

And that 's what makes me support this cause and not another.

Very well. And now... (knocking) what is it?

Can I come in with the... coffee?

If we are not going to make noise

No, I just want to bring the... - OK! - OK!

The next question is: something about the movement in Spain, the present situation and the future plans.

Just tell me everything about what's happening in the movement in Spain and how it works, so people can know about it.

After the Zeitgeist "addendum"

specifically myself and a few others were looking for people whom would communicate in international forums or blogs.

There weren't many... until Victor, the national coordinator, created a blog

thorugh which I got to know him along with some other people.

Since then, about 2.5 - 3 years ago if I am not wrong,

Victor and I were... well, we are among the few people that still remain from that initial group.

We used to meet in the beach or bars to chat, to talk about how this could end... or rather start...

We met a computing expert, along with engineers, designers and so on

and we created the first Spanish website...which is Spain's site now, with its forum and different sections. We got organized in ??? ....And this is how people started to group.

It's something that I am glad to know now that I am not longer in charge of the website

or the design or anything like it. That it works by itself, that there is no need to put pressure in any form.

I repeat. There is no need to put any kind of pressure because being entirely horizontal

it doesn't depend on someone giving some kind of order. Just with organization people mange themselves.

and that's something that I like very much of what I see now. That something that I started with 2 or 3 people nowadays is running itself.

Plans for the movement

There are many projects...

The plans remain the same. Broadcasting, mainly, being on that side,

events,conferences, projections of TZM movies...

But recently we have been focusing most of all on open source software, everything related to open source technology

And we are debating a lot about what could be a transition plan based on that,

open software, all that has to do with the technology of opensource code...

Broadly speaking, the idea would be to generate technology and to hand it over and its blue prints to different organizations,

like charities, etc as a way of diffusion too. Also technology as a sample,

to show today's technological achievements at reach, not only for companies, etc.

As for the rest, we don't know. We are having many problems in general.

Everything that has to do with confusions about ideas and concepts, people not able to separate personal issues from what the movement is trying to achieve

but for the rest, the growth is quite exponential. It is going very well. So I am happy.

What can you tell us about the economic, political and social situation in Spain? Whit all this problems, revolutions...

It is not very different to the rest of the countries. The growth and decrease curve is repeated and it can be found in every country at a different time.

Lets say that now Spain is in the decreasing phase, well, it has ben for various years but now people are starting to feel it.

I come from Argentina, I'm not from Spain. Therefore I lived a brutal time of growth and crisis, called "el corralito ( the playpen)", known internationally.

It is something that is happening again, here, always for the same reasons. People get a mortgage,

loans, and invest in things that will never be able to pay, like new cars, houses...

the economic bubble starts to inflate, which is what happens in most countries in the world and it burst, basically, a few years ago.

and now what is happening on the streets, for example with movements like "15M" or "Democracia Real", which are the most known,

is just a reaction, unfortunately, of the middle class, people who enjoys economic well-being

who are starting to feel that it is not so easy to buy food and pay they rent, the mortgage, and everything they are paying at the same time.

And therefore there is a reaction a little bit more forceful, but it is not violent, it is completely pacific at the moment.

but it's not different from other countries

I am telling you, we had it in Argentina

and we had it worse

and 10 years later, if you look back you remember that revolt, that people on the street asking for the politicians to leave

for economic change... patches...Nowadays, that same people are signing up for loans, buying cars...

because the economic growth, lets say, the new bubble, is rising again

and people are in an economic well-being again and they are not that worried about the subject anymore

To summarize, the situation in Spain is quite decadent, in the economic sense, and it will worsen, I think.

And I am not sure how much of an influence being in the EU will have. I think not much, because

I guess that when the first countries start falling economicaly, it is going to be like a game of dominoes

In truth, the future looks pretty grim.

Can you also tell a little bit about how people react to what we propose in the movement in Spain. Are they open to it?

The content is accepted, meaning everything that is said.

Can you also rephrase the... - Ah the question

Well, the people who is presented with the movement's content of the movies and several pdfs and presentations that there are

don't reject it. Not directly, they see no contradiction, they see it pretty clear.

Technology as the man's extension, which allows him to do things he couldn't in the past, to free himself from that forced labor.

Also the fact that the planet is in crisis and also that money is the major cause of the problems, they understand that.

Now, when we get to the parts regarding human behavior, human nature,why do people behave in a certain way, why there is a monetary system...

that is the most clashing idea, at least here in Spain. It is seen as... like if it is not possible to accomplish any kind of change on that scale, planetary.

because humans, regardless of the context or environment, is inherently bad. He is envious, greedy...

and therefore not able to adapt to a possitive environment.

those are the most common obstacles we face here.

Besides, there is not as much interest as we would like, as the country is not fully in crisis

I mean people are still very comfortable. That is something that we have seen, for example, traveling around Sweden and Nordic countries,

you can see the well-being, people are not worried, they see no problems beyond their houses and countries.

Therefore they situation is not so serious in their eyes. It is a problem, because they do feel it,

but not enough yet to mobilize people to change something. Who knows, they are quite confortable in many aspects after all.

And another very big problem, that not for being the last is least important, is that the word Zeitgeist itself

has sectarian connotations in Spain. It is not a common word as it could be for example in Anglo-Saxon or Nordic countries

and therefore, the first reaction when they hear the word is rejection, I don't want to hear about it.

But then, when you explain the meaning of the word and you put it into context, then they do open up a bit more,

but the first introduction is always very, very tough.

and if you don't have the chance to talk to someone directly, as they access this information, and have many prejudices

they won't watch the documentaries or care about the whole thing.

Have you been to the demonstrations and these events?

No, I haven't.

How do you see the transition from now to a resources based economy.

How do I see the transition?

well... I see a transition, personally, very tough.

I don't see the road full of roses. In fact, I don't think that we have enough time

for those who are capable of creating the transition projects to allow themselves to be persuaded, so to speak,

or to acept that it is one of the most reliable or logic ways to change something

or to develop humanity in the right direction, in a good course.

I don't think there is enough time, I think that there is going to be a crisis, either economic or climatic, or.... I don't know...

social... many things can happen from now to the future. We can not know.

Therfore, I think what we should do if we can for now is, with a global vision as we can not isolate ourselves in small countries,

start to form, lets call them, transition groups

or projects with this objective, but in a local scale.

That is, to know how to survive on a smaller scale with a global vision,

how to implement and incorporate that globaly. Because otherwise we will find ourselves

with such a big crisis, on a planetary scale, that will prevent any kind of organization that we could have

or that people will want to go back to repeat the same loop, because they are familiar with it.

To sum it up, I don't think we have enough time to spread the idea and for people to accept it and accomplish it.That's what I fear the most.

I am not very hopeful but it is like playing the lottery, if you don't play you can't win either.

Your message to the people in the world?

A message?

Yes, something you would like to share with the people of the world.

To the people, to the camera

To those who are not familiar with the movement. And it shouldn't be too long.

OK

How can I say it!? Am I talking to the people or just a reflection?

We have to quit being superficial in all aspects

we currently live in a very superficial culture

that doesn't go deep. Neither in the good or the bad things.

Sorry, I will repeat! because the fly is bothering me

I believe that we should give up being superficial

The fly again. Lets try to kill it with the cushion! (laugh) we have to be symbiotic. We shouldn't kill flies. OK, let's go.

I think we should stop being superficial in all aspects

I believe that we are living today in a superficial culture

for the good and the bad

and we remain scratching on a small surface of the problems.

We don't get to see the depth of what is going on

at the same time, we cannot get to appreciate those close to us, who are truly doing something good for our lives

and therefore I think that this is one of our biggest problems, being superficial.

Very good, well done.