How equal do we want the world to be? You'd be surprised
-
0:01 - 0:04It would be nice to be
objective in life, -
0:04 - 0:06in many ways.
-
0:06 - 0:09The problem is that we have
these color-tinted glasses -
0:09 - 0:14as we look at all kinds of situations.
-
0:14 - 0:17For example, think about
something as simple as beer. -
0:17 - 0:20If I gave you a few beers to taste
-
0:20 - 0:23and I asked you to rate them
on intensity and bitterness, -
0:23 - 0:27different beers would occupy
different space. -
0:27 - 0:30But what if we tried
to be objective about it? -
0:30 - 0:32In the case of beer,
it would be very simple. -
0:32 - 0:34What if we did a blind taste?
-
0:34 - 0:37Well, if we did the same thing,
you tasted the same beer, -
0:37 - 0:41now in the blind taste,
things would look slightly different. -
0:41 - 0:43Most of the beers will go into one place.
-
0:43 - 0:45You will basically not
be able to distinguish them, -
0:45 - 0:49and the exception, of course,
will be Guinness. -
0:49 - 0:51(Laughter)
-
0:51 - 0:54Similarly, we can think about physiology.
-
0:54 - 0:57What happens when people expect
something from their physiology? -
0:57 - 0:59For example, we sold people
pain medications. -
0:59 - 1:02Some people, we told them
the medications were expensive. -
1:02 - 1:04Some people, we told them it was cheap.
-
1:04 - 1:07And the expensive
pain medication worked better. -
1:07 - 1:09It relieved more pain from people,
-
1:09 - 1:13because expectations
do change our physiology. -
1:13 - 1:15And of course, we all know that in sports,
-
1:15 - 1:17if you are a fan of a particular team,
-
1:17 - 1:19you can't help but see the game
-
1:19 - 1:23develop from the perspective of your team.
-
1:23 - 1:27So all of those are cases in which
our preconceived notions -
1:27 - 1:30and our expectations color our world.
-
1:30 - 1:34But what happened
in more important questions? -
1:34 - 1:37What happened with questions
that had to do with social justice? -
1:37 - 1:41So we wanted to think about
what is the blind tasting version -
1:41 - 1:44for thinking about inequality?
-
1:44 - 1:46So we started looking at inequality,
-
1:46 - 1:48and we did some large-scale surveys
-
1:48 - 1:50around the U.S. and other countries.
-
1:50 - 1:52So we asked two questions:
-
1:52 - 1:56Do people know what kind of
level of inequality we have? -
1:56 - 2:00And then, what level of inequality
do we want to have? -
2:00 - 2:02So let's think about the first question.
-
2:02 - 2:04Imagine I took all the people in the U.S.
-
2:04 - 2:07and I sorted them from
the poorest on the right -
2:07 - 2:10to the richest on the left,
-
2:10 - 2:12and then I divided them into five buckets:
-
2:12 - 2:15the poorest 20 percent,
the next 20 percent, -
2:15 - 2:17the next, the next,
and the richest 20 percent. -
2:17 - 2:20And then I asked you to tell me
how much wealth do you think -
2:20 - 2:23is concentrated in each of those buckets.
-
2:23 - 2:26So to make it simpler,
imagine I ask you to tell me, -
2:26 - 2:28how much wealth do you think
is concentrated -
2:28 - 2:30in the bottom two buckets,
-
2:30 - 2:33the bottom 40 percent?
-
2:33 - 2:35Take a second. Think about it
and have a number. -
2:35 - 2:37Usually we don't think.
-
2:37 - 2:40Think for a second,
have a real number in your mind. -
2:40 - 2:41You have it?
-
2:41 - 2:44Okay, here's what lots
of Americans tell us. -
2:44 - 2:46They think that the bottom 20 percent
-
2:46 - 2:49has about 2.9 percent of the wealth,
-
2:49 - 2:51the next group has 6.4,
-
2:51 - 2:53so together it's slightly more than nine.
-
2:53 - 2:57The next group, they say, has 12 percent,
-
2:57 - 2:5820 percent,
-
2:58 - 3:03and the richest 20 percent, people think
has 58 percent of the wealth. -
3:03 - 3:06You can see how this relates
to what you thought. -
3:06 - 3:08Now, what's reality?
-
3:08 - 3:10Reality is slightly different.
-
3:10 - 3:14The bottom 20 percent
has 0.1 percent of the wealth. -
3:14 - 3:17The next 20 percent
has 0.2 percent of the wealth. -
3:17 - 3:19Together, it's 0.3.
-
3:19 - 3:22The next group has 3.9,
-
3:22 - 3:2511.3,
-
3:25 - 3:30and the richest group
has 84-85 percent of the wealth. -
3:30 - 3:33So what we actually have
and what we think we have -
3:33 - 3:35are very different.
-
3:35 - 3:37What about what we want?
-
3:37 - 3:39How do we even figure this out?
-
3:39 - 3:41So to look at this,
-
3:41 - 3:42to look at what we really want,
-
3:42 - 3:45we thought about
the philosopher John Rawls. -
3:45 - 3:47If you remember John Rawls,
-
3:47 - 3:51he had this notion
of what's a just society. -
3:51 - 3:52He said a just society
-
3:52 - 3:55is a society that if
you knew everything about it, -
3:55 - 3:57you would be willing
to enter it in a random place. -
3:57 - 3:59And it's a beautiful definition,
-
3:59 - 4:01because if you're wealthy,
you might want the wealthy -
4:01 - 4:03to have more money, the poor to have less.
-
4:03 - 4:05If you're poor, you might
want more equality. -
4:05 - 4:07But if you're going
to go into that society -
4:07 - 4:11in every possible situation,
and you don't know, -
4:11 - 4:13you have to consider all the aspects.
-
4:13 - 4:16It's a little bit like blind tasting
in which you don't know -
4:16 - 4:18what the outcome will be
when you make a decision, -
4:18 - 4:22and Rawls called this
the "veil of ignorance." -
4:22 - 4:26So, we took another group,
a large group of Americans, -
4:26 - 4:29and we asked them the question
in the veil of ignorance. -
4:29 - 4:33What are the characteristics of a country
that would make you want to join it, -
4:33 - 4:36knowing that you could end
randomly at any place? -
4:36 - 4:37And here is what we got.
-
4:37 - 4:40What did people want to give
to the first group, -
4:40 - 4:42the bottom 20 percent?
-
4:42 - 4:44They wanted to give them
about 10 percent of the wealth. -
4:44 - 4:47The next group, 14 percent of the wealth,
-
4:47 - 4:5221, 22 and 32.
-
4:52 - 4:56Now, nobody in our sample
wanted full equality. -
4:56 - 5:00Nobody thought that socialism
is a fantastic idea in our sample. -
5:00 - 5:02But what does it mean?
-
5:02 - 5:04It means that we have this knowledge gap
-
5:04 - 5:06between what we have
and what we think we have, -
5:06 - 5:10but we have at least as big a gap
between what we think is right -
5:10 - 5:13to what we think we have.
-
5:13 - 5:16Now, we can ask these questions,
by the way, not just about wealth. -
5:16 - 5:18We can ask it about other things as well.
-
5:18 - 5:23So for example, we asked people
from different parts of the world -
5:23 - 5:24about this question,
-
5:24 - 5:27people who are liberals and conservatives,
-
5:27 - 5:29and they gave us basically
the same answer. -
5:29 - 5:31We asked rich and poor,
they gave us the same answer, -
5:31 - 5:33men and women,
-
5:33 - 5:35NPR listeners and Forbes readers.
-
5:35 - 5:38We asked people in England,
Australia, the U.S. -- -
5:38 - 5:40very similar answers.
-
5:40 - 5:43We even asked different
departments of a university. -
5:43 - 5:46We went to Harvard and we checked
almost every department, -
5:46 - 5:48and in fact, from Harvard Business School,
-
5:48 - 5:51where a few people wanted the wealthy
to have more and the [poor] to have less, -
5:51 - 5:54the similarity was astonishing.
-
5:54 - 5:57I know some of you went
to Harvard Business School. -
5:57 - 6:00We also asked this question
about something else. -
6:00 - 6:05We asked, what about the ratio
of CEO pay to unskilled workers? -
6:05 - 6:08So you can see what
people think is the ratio, -
6:08 - 6:12and then we can ask the question,
what do they think should be the ratio? -
6:12 - 6:15And then we can ask, what is reality?
-
6:15 - 6:18What is reality? And you could say,
well, it's not that bad, right? -
6:18 - 6:20The red and the yellow
are not that different. -
6:20 - 6:24But the fact is, it's because
I didn't draw them on the same scale. -
6:26 - 6:30It's hard to see, there's yellow
and blue in there. -
6:30 - 6:32So what about other outcomes of wealth?
-
6:32 - 6:34Wealth is not just about wealth.
-
6:34 - 6:37We asked, what about things like health?
-
6:37 - 6:41What about availability
of prescription medication? -
6:41 - 6:43What about life expectancy?
-
6:43 - 6:45What about life expectancy of infants?
-
6:45 - 6:48How do we want this to be distributed?
-
6:48 - 6:50What about education for young people?
-
6:50 - 6:52And for older people?
-
6:52 - 6:55And across all of those things,
what we learned was that people -
6:55 - 6:58don't like inequality of wealth,
-
6:58 - 7:02but there's other things where inequality,
which is an outcome of wealth, -
7:02 - 7:04is even more aversive to them:
-
7:04 - 7:08for example, inequality
in health or education. -
7:08 - 7:10We also learned that people
are particularly open -
7:10 - 7:13to changes in equality
when it comes to people -
7:13 - 7:15who have less agency --
-
7:15 - 7:17basically, young kids and babies,
-
7:17 - 7:22because we don't think of them
as responsible for their situation. -
7:22 - 7:24So what are some lessons from this?
-
7:24 - 7:26We have two gaps:
-
7:26 - 7:28We have a knowledge gap
and we have a desirability gap -
7:28 - 7:31And the knowledge gap
is something that we think about, -
7:31 - 7:32how do we educate people?
-
7:32 - 7:35How do we get people to think
differently about inequality -
7:35 - 7:39and the consequences of inequality
in terms of health, education, -
7:39 - 7:41jealousy, crime rate, and so on?
-
7:41 - 7:43Then we have the desirability gap.
-
7:43 - 7:47How do we get people to think differently
about what we really want? -
7:47 - 7:50You see, the Rawls definition,
the Rawls way of looking at the world, -
7:50 - 7:52the blind tasting approach,
-
7:52 - 7:55takes our selfish motivation
out of the picture. -
7:55 - 7:57How do we implement that
to a higher degree -
7:57 - 8:00on a more extensive scale?
-
8:00 - 8:03And finally, we also have an action gap.
-
8:03 - 8:06How do we take these things
and actually do something about it? -
8:06 - 8:09I think part of the answer
is to think about people -
8:09 - 8:12like young kids and babies
that don't have much agency, -
8:12 - 8:16because people seem to be
more willing to do this. -
8:16 - 8:21To summarize, I would say,
next time you go to drink beer or wine, -
8:21 - 8:25first of all, think about, what is it
in your experience that is real, -
8:25 - 8:28and what is it in your experience
that is a placebo effect -
8:28 - 8:30coming from expectations?
-
8:30 - 8:33And then think about what it also means
for other decisions in your life, -
8:33 - 8:35and hopefully also for policy questions
-
8:35 - 8:37that affect all of us.
-
8:37 - 8:38Thanks a lot.
-
8:38 - 8:41(Applause)
- Title:
- How equal do we want the world to be? You'd be surprised
- Speaker:
- Dan Ariely
- Description:
-
The news of society's growing inequality makes all of us uneasy. But why? Dan Ariely reveals some new, surprising research on what we think is fair, as far as how wealth is distributed over societies ... then shows how it stacks up to the real stats.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 08:53
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