Can a divided America heal?
-
0:01 - 0:03Chris Anderson: So, Jon, this feels scary.
-
0:03 - 0:04Jonathan Haidt: Yeah.
-
0:04 - 0:06CA: It feels like the world is in a place
-
0:06 - 0:08that we haven't seen for a long time.
-
0:08 - 0:13People don't just disagree
in the way that we're familiar with, -
0:13 - 0:15on the left-right political divide.
-
0:15 - 0:18There are much deeper differences afoot.
-
0:18 - 0:21What on earth is going on,
and how did we get here? -
0:21 - 0:24JH: This is different.
-
0:24 - 0:27There's a much more
apocalyptic sort of feeling. -
0:27 - 0:30Survey research by Pew Research shows
-
0:30 - 0:33that the degree to which we feel
that the other side is not just -- -
0:33 - 0:36we don't just dislike them;
we strongly dislike them, -
0:36 - 0:40and we think that they are
a threat to the nation. -
0:40 - 0:42Those numbers have been going up and up,
-
0:42 - 0:45and those are over 50 percent
now on both sides. -
0:45 - 0:46People are scared,
-
0:46 - 0:49because it feels like this is different
than before; it's much more intense. -
0:49 - 0:52Whenever I look
at any sort of social puzzle, -
0:52 - 0:55I always apply the three basic
principles of moral psychology, -
0:55 - 0:57and I think they'll help us here.
-
0:57 - 1:00So the first thing that you
have to always keep in mind -
1:00 - 1:02when you're thinking about politics
-
1:02 - 1:03is that we're tribal.
-
1:03 - 1:05We evolved for tribalism.
-
1:05 - 1:08One of the simplest and greatest
insights into human social nature -
1:08 - 1:09is the Bedouin proverb:
-
1:09 - 1:10"Me against my brother;
-
1:10 - 1:12me and my brother against our cousin;
-
1:12 - 1:15me and my brother and cousins
against the stranger." -
1:15 - 1:20And that tribalism allowed us
to create large societies -
1:20 - 1:23and to come together
in order to compete with others. -
1:23 - 1:26That brought us out of the jungle
and out of small groups, -
1:26 - 1:28but it means that we have
eternal conflict. -
1:28 - 1:30The question you have to look at is:
-
1:30 - 1:33What aspects of our society
are making that more bitter, -
1:33 - 1:34and what are calming them down?
-
1:34 - 1:36CA: That's a very dark proverb.
-
1:36 - 1:40You're saying that that's actually
baked into most people's mental wiring -
1:40 - 1:41at some level?
-
1:41 - 1:45JH: Oh, absolutely. This is just
a basic aspect of human social cognition. -
1:45 - 1:48But we can also live together
really peacefully, -
1:48 - 1:51and we've invented all kinds
of fun ways of, like, playing war. -
1:51 - 1:52I mean, sports, politics --
-
1:52 - 1:56these are all ways that we get
to exercise this tribal nature -
1:56 - 1:58without actually hurting anyone.
-
1:58 - 2:02We're also really good at trade
and exploration and meeting new people. -
2:02 - 2:05So you have to see our tribalism
as something that goes up or down -- -
2:05 - 2:08it's not like we're doomed
to always be fighting each other, -
2:08 - 2:10but we'll never have world peace.
-
2:11 - 2:14CA: The size of that tribe
can shrink or expand. -
2:14 - 2:15JH: Right.
-
2:15 - 2:17CA: The size of what we consider "us"
-
2:17 - 2:20and what we consider "other" or "them"
-
2:20 - 2:22can change.
-
2:23 - 2:28And some people believed that process
could continue indefinitely. -
2:28 - 2:29JH: That's right.
-
2:29 - 2:33CA: And we were indeed expanding
the sense of tribe for a while. -
2:33 - 2:34JH: So this is, I think,
-
2:34 - 2:37where we're getting at what's possibly
the new left-right distinction. -
2:37 - 2:40I mean, the left-right
as we've all inherited it, -
2:40 - 2:42comes out of the labor
versus capital distinction, -
2:42 - 2:45and the working class, and Marx.
-
2:45 - 2:47But I think what we're seeing
now, increasingly, -
2:47 - 2:50is a divide in all the Western democracies
-
2:50 - 2:54between the people
who want to stop at nation, -
2:54 - 2:55the people who are more parochial --
-
2:55 - 2:57and I don't mean that in a bad way --
-
2:57 - 3:00people who have much more
of a sense of being rooted, -
3:00 - 3:03they care about their town,
their community and their nation. -
3:04 - 3:08And then those who are
anti-parochial and who -- -
3:08 - 3:11whenever I get confused, I just think
of the John Lennon song "Imagine." -
3:11 - 3:14"Imagine there's no countries,
nothing to kill or die for." -
3:14 - 3:17And so these are the people
who want more global governance, -
3:17 - 3:20they don't like nation states,
they don't like borders. -
3:20 - 3:22You see this all over Europe as well.
-
3:22 - 3:25There's a great metaphor guy --
actually, his name is Shakespeare -- -
3:25 - 3:27writing ten years ago in Britain.
-
3:27 - 3:28He had a metaphor:
-
3:28 - 3:31"Are we drawbridge-uppers
or drawbridge-downers?" -
3:31 - 3:34And Britain is divided
52-48 on that point. -
3:34 - 3:36And America is divided on that point, too.
-
3:37 - 3:41CA: And so, those of us
who grew up with The Beatles -
3:41 - 3:45and that sort of hippie philosophy
of dreaming of a more connected world -- -
3:45 - 3:48it felt so idealistic and "how could
anyone think badly about that?" -
3:49 - 3:51And what you're saying is that, actually,
-
3:51 - 3:55millions of people today
feel that that isn't just silly; -
3:55 - 3:58it's actually dangerous and wrong,
and they're scared of it. -
3:58 - 4:01JH: I think the big issue, especially
in Europe but also here, -
4:01 - 4:02is the issue of immigration.
-
4:02 - 4:05And I think this is where
we have to look very carefully -
4:06 - 4:09at the social science
about diversity and immigration. -
4:09 - 4:11Once something becomes politicized,
-
4:11 - 4:14once it becomes something
that the left loves and the right -- -
4:14 - 4:17then even the social scientists
can't think straight about it. -
4:17 - 4:19Now, diversity is good in a lot of ways.
-
4:19 - 4:21It clearly creates more innovation.
-
4:21 - 4:24The American economy
has grown enormously from it. -
4:24 - 4:26Diversity and immigration
do a lot of good things. -
4:26 - 4:29But what the globalists,
I think, don't see, -
4:29 - 4:30what they don't want to see,
-
4:30 - 4:37is that ethnic diversity
cuts social capital and trust. -
4:37 - 4:39There's a very important
study by Robert Putnam, -
4:39 - 4:41the author of "Bowling Alone,"
-
4:41 - 4:43looking at social capital databases.
-
4:43 - 4:46And basically, the more people
feel that they are the same, -
4:46 - 4:47the more they trust each other,
-
4:47 - 4:50the more they can have
a redistributionist welfare state. -
4:50 - 4:52Scandinavian countries are so wonderful
-
4:52 - 4:55because they have this legacy
of being small, homogenous countries. -
4:55 - 4:59And that leads to
a progressive welfare state, -
4:59 - 5:02a set of progressive
left-leaning values, which says, -
5:02 - 5:05"Drawbridge down!
The world is a great place. -
5:05 - 5:08People in Syria are suffering --
we must welcome them in." -
5:08 - 5:09And it's a beautiful thing.
-
5:10 - 5:13But if, and I was in Sweden
this summer, -
5:13 - 5:16if the discourse in Sweden
is fairly politically correct -
5:16 - 5:18and they can't talk about the downsides,
-
5:18 - 5:20you end up bringing a lot of people in.
-
5:20 - 5:22That's going to cut social capital,
-
5:22 - 5:24it makes it hard to have a welfare state
-
5:24 - 5:26and they might end up,
as we have in America, -
5:26 - 5:30with a racially divided, visibly
racially divided, society. -
5:30 - 5:32So this is all very
uncomfortable to talk about. -
5:32 - 5:35But I think this is the thing,
especially in Europe and for us, too, -
5:35 - 5:37we need to be looking at.
-
5:37 - 5:39CA: You're saying that people of reason,
-
5:39 - 5:41people who would consider
themselves not racists, -
5:41 - 5:43but moral, upstanding people,
-
5:43 - 5:46have a rationale that says
humans are just too different; -
5:46 - 5:51that we're in danger of overloading
our sense of what humans are capable of, -
5:51 - 5:54by mixing in people who are too different.
-
5:54 - 5:58JH: Yes, but I can make it
much more palatable -
5:58 - 6:00by saying it's not necessarily about race.
-
6:01 - 6:02It's about culture.
-
6:02 - 6:06There's wonderful work by a political
scientist named Karen Stenner, -
6:06 - 6:10who shows that when people have a sense
-
6:10 - 6:12that we are all united,
we're all the same, -
6:12 - 6:15there are many people who have
a predisposition to authoritarianism. -
6:15 - 6:17Those people aren't particularly racist
-
6:17 - 6:19when they feel as through
there's not a threat -
6:19 - 6:21to our social and moral order.
-
6:21 - 6:23But if you prime them experimentally
-
6:23 - 6:26by thinking we're coming apart,
people are getting more different, -
6:26 - 6:30then they get more racist, homophobic,
they want to kick out the deviants. -
6:30 - 6:33So it's in part that you get
an authoritarian reaction. -
6:33 - 6:35The left, following through
the Lennonist line -- -
6:35 - 6:36the John Lennon line --
-
6:36 - 6:39does things that create
an authoritarian reaction. -
6:39 - 6:42We're certainly seeing that
in America with the alt-right. -
6:42 - 6:44We saw it in Britain,
we've seen it all over Europe. -
6:44 - 6:47But the more positive part of that
-
6:47 - 6:51is that I think the localists,
or the nationalists, are actually right -- -
6:51 - 6:55that, if you emphasize
our cultural similarity, -
6:55 - 6:57then race doesn't actually
matter very much. -
6:57 - 7:00So an assimilationist
approach to immigration -
7:00 - 7:02removes a lot of these problems.
-
7:02 - 7:04And if you value having
a generous welfare state, -
7:04 - 7:06you've got to emphasize
that we're all the same. -
7:07 - 7:10CA: OK, so rising immigration
and fears about that -
7:10 - 7:13are one of the causes
of the current divide. -
7:13 - 7:15What are other causes?
-
7:15 - 7:17JH: The next principle of moral psychology
-
7:17 - 7:21is that intuitions come first,
strategic reasoning second. -
7:21 - 7:23You've probably heard
the term "motivated reasoning" -
7:23 - 7:25or "confirmation bias."
-
7:25 - 7:27There's some really interesting work
-
7:27 - 7:30on how our high intelligence
and our verbal abilities -
7:30 - 7:33might have evolved
not to help us find out the truth, -
7:33 - 7:36but to help us manipulate each other,
defend our reputation ... -
7:36 - 7:39We're really, really good
at justifying ourselves. -
7:39 - 7:42And when you bring
group interests into account, -
7:42 - 7:44so it's not just me,
it's my team versus your team, -
7:44 - 7:47whereas if you're evaluating evidence
that your side is wrong, -
7:47 - 7:49we just can't accept that.
-
7:49 - 7:52So this is why you can't win
a political argument. -
7:52 - 7:53If you're debating something,
-
7:53 - 7:56you can't persuade the person
with reasons and evidence, -
7:56 - 7:59because that's not
the way reasoning works. -
7:59 - 8:02So now, give us the internet,
give us Google: -
8:03 - 8:05"I heard that Barack Obama
was born in Kenya. -
8:05 - 8:09Let me Google that -- oh my God!
10 million hits! Look, he was!" -
8:09 - 8:12CA: So this has come as an unpleasant
surprise to a lot of people. -
8:12 - 8:15Social media has often been framed
by techno-optimists -
8:15 - 8:21as this great connecting force
that would bring people together. -
8:21 - 8:24And there have been some
unexpected counter-effects to that. -
8:25 - 8:26JH: That's right.
-
8:26 - 8:28That's why I'm very enamored
of yin-yang views -
8:29 - 8:30of human nature and left-right --
-
8:30 - 8:33that each side is right
about certain things, -
8:33 - 8:35but then it goes blind to other things.
-
8:35 - 8:38And so the left generally believes
that human nature is good: -
8:38 - 8:41bring people together, knock down
the walls and all will be well. -
8:41 - 8:44The right -- social conservatives,
not libertarians -- -
8:44 - 8:48social conservatives generally
believe people can be greedy -
8:48 - 8:49and sexual and selfish,
-
8:49 - 8:52and we need regulation,
and we need restrictions. -
8:52 - 8:55So, yeah, if you knock down all the walls,
-
8:55 - 8:57allow people to communicate
all over the world, -
8:57 - 8:59you get a lot of porn and a lot of racism.
-
8:59 - 9:00CA: So help us understand.
-
9:00 - 9:06These principles of human nature
have been with us forever. -
9:07 - 9:12What's changed that's deepened
this feeling of division? -
9:12 - 9:17JH: You have to see six to ten
different threads all coming together. -
9:17 - 9:19I'll just list a couple of them.
-
9:19 - 9:24So in America, one of the big --
actually, America and Europe -- -
9:24 - 9:26one of the biggest ones is World War II.
-
9:26 - 9:28There's interesting research
from Joe Henrich and others -
9:29 - 9:31that says if your country was at war,
-
9:31 - 9:32especially when you were young,
-
9:33 - 9:36then we test you 30 years later
in a commons dilemma -
9:36 - 9:37or a prisoner's dilemma,
-
9:37 - 9:38you're more cooperative.
-
9:39 - 9:42Because of our tribal nature, if you're --
-
9:42 - 9:45my parents were teenagers
during World War II, -
9:45 - 9:47and they would go out
looking for scraps of aluminum -
9:47 - 9:49to help the war effort.
-
9:49 - 9:51I mean, everybody pulled together.
-
9:51 - 9:52And so then these people go on,
-
9:52 - 9:55they rise up through business
and government, -
9:55 - 9:56they take leadership positions.
-
9:56 - 10:00They're really good
at compromise and cooperation. -
10:00 - 10:02They all retire by the '90s.
-
10:02 - 10:05So we're left with baby boomers
by the end of the '90s. -
10:05 - 10:09And their youth was spent fighting
each other within each country, -
10:09 - 10:11in 1968 and afterwards.
-
10:11 - 10:15The loss of the World War II generation,
"The Greatest Generation," -
10:15 - 10:16is huge.
-
10:17 - 10:18So that's one.
-
10:18 - 10:22Another, in America,
is the purification of the two parties. -
10:22 - 10:25There used to be liberal Republicans
and conservative Democrats. -
10:25 - 10:28So America had a mid-20th century
that was really bipartisan. -
10:28 - 10:33But because of a variety of factors
that started things moving, -
10:33 - 10:36by the 90's, we had a purified
liberal party and conservative party. -
10:36 - 10:39So now, the people in either party
really are different, -
10:39 - 10:41and we really don't want
our children to marry them, -
10:41 - 10:43which, in the '60s,
didn't matter very much. -
10:43 - 10:45So, the purification of the parties.
-
10:45 - 10:48Third is the internet and, as I said,
-
10:48 - 10:52it's just the most amazing stimulant
for post-hoc reasoning and demonization. -
10:52 - 10:57CA: The tone of what's happening
on the internet now is quite troubling. -
10:57 - 11:00I just did a quick search
on Twitter about the election -
11:00 - 11:03and saw two tweets next to each other.
-
11:03 - 11:08One, against a picture of racist graffiti:
-
11:08 - 11:10"This is disgusting!
-
11:10 - 11:13Ugliness in this country,
brought to us by #Trump." -
11:13 - 11:15And then the next one is:
-
11:15 - 11:19"Crooked Hillary
dedication page. Disgusting!" -
11:19 - 11:23So this idea of "disgust"
is troubling to me. -
11:23 - 11:27Because you can have an argument
or a disagreement about something, -
11:27 - 11:28you can get angry at someone.
-
11:29 - 11:33Disgust, I've heard you say,
takes things to a much deeper level. -
11:33 - 11:35JH: That's right. Disgust is different.
-
11:35 - 11:37Anger -- you know, I have kids.
-
11:37 - 11:38They fight 10 times a day,
-
11:38 - 11:40and they love each other 30 times a day.
-
11:40 - 11:43You just go back and forth:
you get angry, you're not angry; -
11:43 - 11:45you're angry, you're not angry.
-
11:45 - 11:46But disgust is different.
-
11:46 - 11:51Disgust paints the person
as subhuman, monstrous, -
11:51 - 11:52deformed, morally deformed.
-
11:53 - 11:55Disgust is like indelible ink.
-
11:56 - 11:59There's research from John Gottman
on marital therapy. -
11:59 - 12:04If you look at the faces -- if one
of the couple shows disgust or contempt, -
12:04 - 12:08that's a predictor that they're going
to get divorced soon, -
12:08 - 12:10whereas if they show anger,
that doesn't predict anything, -
12:10 - 12:13because if you deal with anger well,
it actually is good. -
12:13 - 12:15So this election is different.
-
12:15 - 12:18Donald Trump personally
uses the word "disgust" a lot. -
12:18 - 12:21He's very germ-sensitive,
so disgust does matter a lot -- -
12:21 - 12:25more for him, that's something
unique to him -- -
12:25 - 12:28but as we demonize each other more,
-
12:28 - 12:32and again, through
the Manichaean worldview, -
12:32 - 12:34the idea that the world
is a battle between good and evil -
12:34 - 12:36as this has been ramping up,
-
12:36 - 12:39we're more likely not just to say
they're wrong or I don't like them, -
12:39 - 12:42but we say they're evil, they're satanic,
-
12:42 - 12:44they're disgusting, they're revolting.
-
12:44 - 12:46And then we want nothing to do with them.
-
12:47 - 12:50And that's why I think we're seeing it,
for example, on campus now. -
12:50 - 12:53We're seeing more the urge
to keep people off campus, -
12:53 - 12:55silence them, keep them away.
-
12:55 - 12:58I'm afraid that this whole
generation of young people, -
12:58 - 13:01if their introduction to politics
involves a lot of disgust, -
13:01 - 13:05they're not going to want to be involved
in politics as they get older. -
13:06 - 13:07CA: So how do we deal with that?
-
13:07 - 13:12Disgust. How do you defuse disgust?
-
13:13 - 13:15JH: You can't do it with reasons.
-
13:15 - 13:17I think ...
-
13:18 - 13:21I studied disgust for many years,
and I think about emotions a lot. -
13:21 - 13:25And I think that the opposite
of disgust is actually love. -
13:26 - 13:29Love is all about, like ...
-
13:29 - 13:32Disgust is closing off, borders.
-
13:32 - 13:34Love is about dissolving walls.
-
13:35 - 13:38So personal relationships, I think,
-
13:38 - 13:40are probably the most
powerful means we have. -
13:41 - 13:44You can be disgusted by a group of people,
-
13:44 - 13:46but then you meet a particular person
-
13:46 - 13:49and you genuinely discover
that they're lovely. -
13:49 - 13:53And then gradually that chips away
or changes your category as well. -
13:54 - 14:00The tragedy is, Americans used to be
much more mixed up in the their towns -
14:00 - 14:02by left-right or politics.
-
14:02 - 14:05And now that it's become
this great moral divide, -
14:05 - 14:08there's a lot of evidence
that we're moving to be near people -
14:08 - 14:09who are like us politically.
-
14:09 - 14:12It's harder to find somebody
who's on the other side. -
14:12 - 14:14So they're over there, they're far away.
-
14:14 - 14:16It's harder to get to know them.
-
14:16 - 14:20CA: What would you say to someone
or say to Americans, -
14:20 - 14:21people generally,
-
14:21 - 14:24about what we should understand
about each other -
14:24 - 14:27that might help us rethink for a minute
-
14:27 - 14:29this "disgust" instinct?
-
14:30 - 14:31JH: Yes.
-
14:31 - 14:33A really important
thing to keep in mind -- -
14:33 - 14:38there's research by political
scientist Alan Abramowitz, -
14:38 - 14:42showing that American democracy
is increasingly governed -
14:42 - 14:44by what's called "negative partisanship."
-
14:45 - 14:48That means you think,
OK there's a candidate, -
14:48 - 14:50you like the candidate,
you vote for the candidate. -
14:50 - 14:52But with the rise of negative advertising
-
14:53 - 14:55and social media
and all sorts of other trends, -
14:55 - 14:57increasingly, the way elections are done
-
14:57 - 15:01is that each side tries to make
the other side so horrible, so awful, -
15:01 - 15:03that you'll vote for my guy by default.
-
15:03 - 15:06And so as we more and more vote
against the other side -
15:06 - 15:08and not for our side,
-
15:08 - 15:13you have to keep in mind
that if people are on the left, -
15:13 - 15:16they think, "Well, I used to think
that Republicans were bad, -
15:16 - 15:18but now Donald Trump proves it.
-
15:18 - 15:20And now every Republican,
I can paint with all the things -
15:21 - 15:22that I think about Trump."
-
15:22 - 15:24And that's not necessarily true.
-
15:24 - 15:26They're generally not very happy
with their candidate. -
15:26 - 15:31This is the most negative partisanship
election in American history. -
15:32 - 15:35So you have to first separate
your feelings about the candidate -
15:35 - 15:38from your feelings about the people
who are given a choice. -
15:38 - 15:41And then you have to realize that,
-
15:41 - 15:44because we all live
in a separate moral world -- -
15:44 - 15:47the metaphor I use in the book
is that we're all trapped in "The Matrix," -
15:47 - 15:51or each moral community is a matrix,
a consensual hallucination. -
15:51 - 15:53And so if you're within the blue matrix,
-
15:53 - 15:56everything's completely compelling
that the other side -- -
15:56 - 16:00they're troglodytes, they're racists,
they're the worst people in the world, -
16:00 - 16:02and you have all the facts
to back that up. -
16:02 - 16:04But somebody in the next house from yours
-
16:04 - 16:06is living in a different moral matrix.
-
16:06 - 16:08They live in a different video game,
-
16:08 - 16:11and they see a completely
different set of facts. -
16:11 - 16:13And each one sees
different threats to the country. -
16:13 - 16:16And what I've found
from being in the middle -
16:16 - 16:18and trying to understand both sides
is: both sides are right. -
16:18 - 16:21There are a lot of threats
to this country, -
16:21 - 16:24and each side is constitutionally
incapable of seeing them all. -
16:25 - 16:31CA: So, are you saying
that we almost need a new type of empathy? -
16:32 - 16:34Empathy is traditionally framed as:
-
16:34 - 16:36"Oh, I feel your pain.
I can put myself in your shoes." -
16:36 - 16:39And we apply it to the poor,
the needy, the suffering. -
16:40 - 16:44We don't usually apply it
to people who we feel as other, -
16:44 - 16:45or we're disgusted by.
-
16:45 - 16:47JH: No. That's right.
-
16:47 - 16:51CA: What would it look like
to build that type of empathy? -
16:52 - 16:54JH: Actually, I think ...
-
16:54 - 16:56Empathy is a very, very
hot topic in psychology, -
16:56 - 16:59and it's a very popular word
on the left in particular. -
16:59 - 17:03Empathy is a good thing, and empathy
for the preferred classes of victims. -
17:03 - 17:05So it's important to empathize
-
17:05 - 17:07with the groups that we on the left
think are so important. -
17:08 - 17:10That's easy to do,
because you get points for that. -
17:10 - 17:14But empathy really should get you points
if you do it when it's hard to do. -
17:15 - 17:16And, I think ...
-
17:16 - 17:21You know, we had a long 50-year period
of dealing with our race problems -
17:21 - 17:24and legal discrimination,
-
17:24 - 17:26and that was our top priority
for a long time -
17:26 - 17:27and it still is important.
-
17:27 - 17:29But I think this year,
-
17:29 - 17:31I'm hoping it will make people see
-
17:31 - 17:34that we have an existential
threat on our hands. -
17:34 - 17:37Our left-right divide, I believe,
-
17:37 - 17:39is by far the most important
divide we face. -
17:39 - 17:42We still have issues about race
and gender and LGBT, -
17:42 - 17:45but this is the urgent need
of the next 50 years, -
17:45 - 17:48and things aren't going
to get better on their own. -
17:49 - 17:52So we're going to need to do
a lot of institutional reforms, -
17:52 - 17:53and we could talk about that,
-
17:53 - 17:56but that's like a whole long,
wonky conversation. -
17:56 - 18:00But I think it starts with people
realizing that this is a turning point. -
18:00 - 18:02And yes, we need a new kind of empathy.
-
18:02 - 18:04We need to realize:
-
18:04 - 18:05this is what our country needs,
-
18:05 - 18:08and this is what you need
if you don't want to -- -
18:08 - 18:11Raise your hand if you want
to spend the next four years -
18:11 - 18:14as angry and worried as you've been
for the last year -- raise your hand. -
18:14 - 18:16So if you want to escape from this,
-
18:16 - 18:18read Buddha, read Jesus,
read Marcus Aurelius. -
18:18 - 18:23They have all kinds of great advice
for how to drop the fear, -
18:23 - 18:24reframe things,
-
18:24 - 18:26stop seeing other people as your enemy.
-
18:26 - 18:30There's a lot of guidance in ancient
wisdom for this kind of empathy. -
18:30 - 18:31CA: Here's my last question:
-
18:31 - 18:35Personally, what can
people do to help heal? -
18:35 - 18:40JH: Yeah, it's very hard to just decide
to overcome your deepest prejudices. -
18:40 - 18:41And there's research showing
-
18:41 - 18:45that political prejudices are deeper
and stronger than race prejudices -
18:45 - 18:47in the country now.
-
18:47 - 18:51So I think you have to make an effort --
that's the main thing. -
18:51 - 18:53Make an effort to actually meet somebody.
-
18:53 - 18:55Everybody has a cousin, a brother-in-law,
-
18:55 - 18:57somebody who's on the other side.
-
18:57 - 18:59So, after this election --
-
18:59 - 19:01wait a week or two,
-
19:01 - 19:03because it's probably going to feel
awful for one of you -- -
19:03 - 19:08but wait a couple weeks, and then
reach out and say you want to talk. -
19:08 - 19:09And before you do it,
-
19:09 - 19:12read Dale Carnegie, "How to Win
Friends and Influence People" -- -
19:12 - 19:13(Laughter)
-
19:13 - 19:15I'm totally serious.
-
19:15 - 19:17You'll learn techniques
if you start by acknowledging, -
19:17 - 19:18if you start by saying,
-
19:18 - 19:20"You know, we don't agree on a lot,
-
19:20 - 19:23but one thing I really respect
about you, Uncle Bob," -
19:23 - 19:25or "... about you conservatives, is ... "
-
19:25 - 19:26And you can find something.
-
19:26 - 19:29If you start with some
appreciation, it's like magic. -
19:29 - 19:31This is one of the main
things I've learned -
19:31 - 19:33that I take into my human relationships.
-
19:33 - 19:35I still make lots of stupid mistakes,
-
19:35 - 19:37but I'm incredibly good
at apologizing now, -
19:37 - 19:39and at acknowledging what
somebody was right about. -
19:39 - 19:40And if you do that,
-
19:40 - 19:44then the conversation goes really well,
and it's actually really fun. -
19:45 - 19:47CA: Jon, it's absolutely fascinating
speaking with you. -
19:47 - 19:51It really does feel like
the ground that we're on -
19:51 - 19:56is a ground populated by deep questions
of morality and human nature. -
19:56 - 19:59Your wisdom couldn't be more relevant.
-
19:59 - 20:01Thank you so much for sharing
this time with us. -
20:01 - 20:02JH: Thanks, Chris.
-
20:02 - 20:03JH: Thanks, everyone.
-
20:03 - 20:05(Applause)
- Title:
- Can a divided America heal?
- Speaker:
- Jonathan Haidt
- Description:
-
How can the US recover after the negative, partisan presidential election of 2016? Social psychologist Jonathan Haidt studies the morals that form the basis of our political choices. In conversation with TED Curator Chris Anderson, he describes the patterns of thinking and historical causes that have led to such sharp divisions in America — and provides a vision for how the country might move forward.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 20:17
Brice LS commented on English subtitles for Can a divided America heal? | ||
Dewi Barnas commented on English subtitles for Can a divided America heal? | ||
Dewi Barnas commented on English subtitles for Can a divided America heal? | ||
Brice LS commented on English subtitles for Can a divided America heal? | ||
Dewi Barnas commented on English subtitles for Can a divided America heal? | ||
Brian Greene commented on English subtitles for Can a divided America heal? | ||
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for Can a divided America heal? | ||
Dewi Barnas commented on English subtitles for Can a divided America heal? |
Dewi Barnas
19:47 - 19:51
It's really does feel like
the ground that we're on
=> it should be "It really does feel like"
Brian Greene
The typo at 19:47 was fixed on 11/11/2016.
Dewi Barnas
Thanks Brian!
Brice LS
Does anybody know how to enable French subtitles on this ? I would happily translate the subtitles in French but can't find a link to start the translation…
Dewi Barnas
Hi Brice,
Someone is currently doing the translation:
http://amara.org/en/teams/ted/tasks/?project=&assignee=anyone&q=jonathan+haidt&lang=fr
Dewi Barnas
Hi Brice,
Someone is currently doing the translation:
http://amara.org/en/teams/ted/tasks/?project=&assignee=anyone&q=jonathan+haidt&lang=fr
Brice LS
Ah okay, thanks for your answer Dewi.