When online shaming spirals out of control
-
0:00 - 0:05In the early days of Twitter,
it was like a place of radical de-shaming. -
0:05 - 0:08People would admit
shameful secrets about themselves, -
0:08 - 0:13and other people would say,
"Oh my God, I'm exactly the same." -
0:13 - 0:16Voiceless people realized
that they had a voice, -
0:16 - 0:19and it was powerful and eloquent.
-
0:19 - 0:24If a newspaper ran some racist
or homophobic column, -
0:24 - 0:26we realized we could do
something about it. -
0:26 - 0:27We could get them.
-
0:27 - 0:31We could hit them with a weapon
that we understood but they didn't -- -
0:31 - 0:33a social media shaming.
-
0:34 - 0:36Advertisers would withdraw
their advertising. -
0:37 - 0:40When powerful people
misused their privilege, -
0:40 - 0:42we were going to get them.
-
0:42 - 0:45This was like the
democratization of justice. -
0:45 - 0:48Hierarchies were being leveled out.
-
0:48 - 0:50We were going to do things better.
-
0:51 - 0:55Soon after that, a disgraced
pop science writer called Jonah Lehrer -- -
0:55 - 0:58he'd been caught plagiarizing
and faking quotes, -
0:58 - 1:02and he was drenched in shame
and regret, he told me. -
1:02 - 1:03And he had the opportunity
-
1:03 - 1:07to publicly apologize
at a foundation lunch. -
1:07 - 1:10This was going to be the most
important speech of his life. -
1:10 - 1:13Maybe it would win him some salvation.
-
1:13 - 1:14He knew before he arrived
-
1:14 - 1:18that the foundation was going to be
live-streaming his event, -
1:18 - 1:20but what he didn't know
until he turned up, -
1:20 - 1:25was that they'd erected a giant screen
Twitter feed right next to his head. -
1:25 - 1:26(Laughter)
-
1:26 - 1:29Another one in a monitor screen
in his eye line. -
1:29 - 1:32I don't think the foundation did this
because they were monstrous. -
1:32 - 1:35I think they were clueless:
I think this was a unique moment -
1:35 - 1:38when the beautiful naivety of Twitter
-
1:38 - 1:41was hitting the increasingly
horrific reality. -
1:42 - 1:45And here were some of the Tweets
that were cascading into his eye line, -
1:45 - 1:47as he was trying to apologize:
-
1:47 - 1:50"Jonah Lehrer, boring us
into forgiving him." -
1:50 - 1:51(Laughter)
-
1:51 - 1:56And, "Jonah Lehrer has not proven
that he is capable of feeling shame." -
1:57 - 2:00That one must have been written
by the best psychiatrist ever, -
2:00 - 2:04to know that about such
a tiny figure behind a lectern. -
2:04 - 2:07And, "Jonah Lehrer is just
a frigging sociopath." -
2:08 - 2:13That last word is a very human thing
to do, to dehumanize the people we hurt. -
2:13 - 2:17It's because we want to destroy people
but not feel bad about it. -
2:19 - 2:21Imagine if this was an actual court,
-
2:21 - 2:24and the accused was in the dark,
begging for another chance, -
2:24 - 2:26and the jury was yelling out,
-
2:26 - 2:28"Bored! Sociopath!"
-
2:28 - 2:29(Laughter)
-
2:29 - 2:32You know, when we watch
courtroom dramas, we tend to identify -
2:33 - 2:35with the kindhearted defense attorney,
-
2:36 - 2:39but give us the power,
and we become like hanging judges. -
2:40 - 2:42Power shifts fast.
-
2:42 - 2:47We were getting Jonah because he was
perceived to have misused his privilege, -
2:47 - 2:50but Jonah was on the floor then,
and we were still kicking, -
2:50 - 2:53and congratulating ourselves
for punching up. -
2:54 - 2:58And it began to feel weird and empty
when there wasn't a powerful person -
2:58 - 3:01who had misused their privilege
that we could get. -
3:01 - 3:05A day without a shaming
began to feel like a day -
3:05 - 3:08picking fingernails and treading water.
-
3:09 - 3:11Let me tell you a story.
-
3:12 - 3:14It's about a woman called Justine Sacco.
-
3:15 - 3:19She was a PR woman from New York
with 170 Twitter followers, -
3:19 - 3:22and she'd Tweet little
acerbic jokes to them, -
3:22 - 3:25like this one on a plane
from New York to London: -
3:25 - 3:29[Weird German Dude: You're in first class.
It's 2014. Get some deodorant." -
3:29 - 3:32-Inner monologue as inhale BO.
Thank god for pharmaceuticals.] -
3:32 - 3:35So Justine chuckled to herself,
and pressed send, and got no replies, -
3:35 - 3:37and felt that sad feeling that we all feel
-
3:37 - 3:41when the Internet doesn't
congratulate us for being funny. -
3:41 - 3:42(Laughter)
-
3:42 - 3:45Black silence when the Internet
doesn't talk back. -
3:46 - 3:49And then she got to Heathrow,
and she had a little time to spare -
3:49 - 3:54before her final leg, so she thought up
another funny little acerbic joke: -
3:54 - 3:58[Going to Africa. Hope I don't get AIDS.
Just kidding. I'm white!] -
3:58 - 4:04And she chuckled to herself, pressed send,
got on the plane, got no replies, -
4:05 - 4:07turned off her phone, fell asleep,
-
4:07 - 4:09woke up 11 hours later,
-
4:09 - 4:13turned on her phone while the plane
was taxiing on the runway, -
4:13 - 4:15and straightaway there was
a message from somebody -
4:15 - 4:17that she hadn't spoken
to since high school, -
4:17 - 4:22that said, "I am so sorry
to see what's happening to you." -
4:23 - 4:26And then another message
from a best friend, -
4:26 - 4:28"You need to call me right now.
-
4:28 - 4:32You are the worldwide number one
trending topic on Twitter." -
4:32 - 4:34(Laughter)
-
4:34 - 4:38What had happened is that one
of her 170 followers had sent the Tweet -
4:38 - 4:43to a Gawker journalist, and he
retweeted it to his 15,000 followers: -
4:44 - 4:46[And now, a funny holiday joke
from IAC's PR boss] -
4:46 - 4:48And then it was like a bolt of lightning.
-
4:48 - 4:50A few weeks later, I talked
to the Gawker journalist. -
4:50 - 4:54I emailed him and asked him how it felt,
and he said, "It felt delicious." -
4:54 - 4:57And then he said,
"But I'm sure she's fine." -
4:58 - 5:01But she wasn't fine,
because while she slept, -
5:01 - 5:06Twitter took control of her life
and dismantled it piece by piece. -
5:07 - 5:10First there were the philanthropists:
-
5:10 - 5:12[If @JustineSacco's unfortunate
words ... bother you, -
5:12 - 5:14join me in supporting
@CARE's work in Africa.] -
5:14 - 5:18[In light of ... disgusting,
racist tweet, I'm donating to @care today] -
5:18 - 5:20Then came the beyond horrified:
-
5:20 - 5:24[... no words for that horribly disgusting
racist as fuck tweet from Justine Sacco. -
5:24 - 5:25I am beyond horrified.]
-
5:25 - 5:27Was anybody on Twitter
that night? A few of you. -
5:27 - 5:31Did Justine's joke overwhelm
your Twitter feed the way it did mine? -
5:31 - 5:33It did mine, and I thought
what everybody thought that night, -
5:33 - 5:37which was, "Wow, somebody's screwed!
-
5:37 - 5:39Somebody's life is about to get terrible!"
-
5:39 - 5:40And I sat up in my bed,
-
5:40 - 5:43and I put the pillow behind my head,
-
5:43 - 5:48and then I thought, I'm not entirely sure
that joke was intended to be racist. -
5:48 - 5:51Maybe instead of gleefully
flaunting her privilege, -
5:51 - 5:54she was mocking the gleeful
flaunting of privilege. -
5:54 - 5:56There's a comedy tradition of this,
-
5:56 - 5:59like South Park or Colbert
or Randy Newman. -
5:59 - 6:04Maybe Justine Sacco's crime was not being
as good at it as Randy Newman. -
6:04 - 6:07In fact, when I met Justine
a couple of weeks later in a bar, -
6:07 - 6:09she was just crushed,
-
6:10 - 6:11and I asked her to explain the joke,
-
6:11 - 6:15and she said, "Living in America
puts us in a bit of a bubble -
6:15 - 6:18when it comes to what is going on
in the Third World. -
6:18 - 6:20I was making of fun of that bubble."
-
6:21 - 6:25You know, another woman on Twitter that
night, a New Statesman writer Helen Lewis, -
6:25 - 6:28she reviewed my book on public shaming
and wrote that she Tweeted that night, -
6:28 - 6:32"I'm not sure that her joke
was intended to be racist," -
6:32 - 6:34and she said straightaway she got
a fury of Tweets saying, -
6:35 - 6:37"Well, you're just
a privileged bitch, too." -
6:37 - 6:39And so to her shame, she wrote,
-
6:39 - 6:44she shut up and watched
as Justine's life got torn apart. -
6:46 - 6:48It started to get darker:
-
6:48 - 6:50[Everyone go report
this cunt @JustineSacco] -
6:50 - 6:53Then came the calls for her to be fired.
-
6:53 - 6:56[Good luck with the job hunt
in the new year. #GettingFired] -
6:56 - 6:58Thousands of people around the world
-
6:58 - 7:01decided it was their duty
to get her fired. -
7:01 - 7:04[@JustineSacco last tweet
of your career. #SorryNotSorry -
7:05 - 7:08Corporations got involved,
hoping to sell their products -
7:08 - 7:11on the back of Justine's annihilation:
-
7:11 - 7:14[Next time you plan to tweet something
stupid before you take off, -
7:14 - 7:16make sure you are getting
on a @Gogo flight!] -
7:16 - 7:19(Laughter)
-
7:19 - 7:21A lot of companies were making
good money that night. -
7:21 - 7:25You know, Justine's name was normally
Googled 40 times a month. -
7:25 - 7:28That month, between December the 20th
and the end of December, -
7:29 - 7:33her name was Googled 1,220,000 times.
-
7:34 - 7:37And one Internet economist told me
that that meant that Google made -
7:37 - 7:42somewhere between 120,000 dollars
and 468,000 dollars -
7:42 - 7:47from Justine's annihilation, whereas
those of us doing the actual shaming -- -
7:47 - 7:48we got nothing.
-
7:48 - 7:49(Laughter)
-
7:49 - 7:52We were like unpaid
shaming interns for Google. -
7:52 - 7:56(Laughter)
-
7:56 - 7:58And then came the trolls:
-
7:58 - 8:01[I'm actually kind of hoping
Justine Sacco gets aids? lol] -
8:01 - 8:02Somebody else on that wrote,
-
8:02 - 8:05"Somebody HIV-positive should rape
this bitch and then we'll find out -
8:05 - 8:08if her skin color protects her from AIDS."
-
8:08 - 8:10And that person got a free pass.
-
8:10 - 8:12Nobody went after that person.
-
8:12 - 8:15We were all so excited
about destroying Justine, -
8:15 - 8:18and our shaming brains
are so simple-minded, -
8:18 - 8:20that we couldn't also handle
destroying somebody -
8:20 - 8:23who was inappropriately
destroying Justine. -
8:24 - 8:27Justine was really uniting
a lot of disparate groups that night, -
8:27 - 8:30from philanthropists to "rape the bitch."
-
8:31 - 8:35[@JustineSacco I hope you get fired!
You demented bitch... -
8:35 - 8:38Just let the world know you're planning
to ride bare back while in Africa.] -
8:38 - 8:40Women always have it worse than men.
-
8:40 - 8:43When a man gets shamed, it's,
"I'm going to get you fired." -
8:43 - 8:45When a woman gets shamed, it's,
-
8:45 - 8:50"I'm going to get you fired
and raped and cut out your uterus." -
8:50 - 8:52And then Justine's employers got involved:
-
8:52 - 8:56[IAC on @JustineSacco tweet: This is an
outrageous, offensive comment. -
8:56 - 8:59Employee in question currently
unreachable on an intl flight.] -
8:59 - 9:01And that's when the anger
turned to excitement: -
9:01 - 9:05[All I want for Christmas is to see
@JustineSacco's face when her plane lands -
9:05 - 9:07and she checks
her inbox/voicemail. #fired] -
9:07 - 9:09[Oh man, @justinesacco
is going to have the most painful -
9:09 - 9:12phone-turning-on moment ever
when her plane lands.] -
9:12 - 9:15[We are about to watch this @JustineSacco
bitch get fired. In REAL time. -
9:15 - 9:17Before she even KNOWS
she's getting fired.] -
9:17 - 9:19What we had was
a delightful narrative arc. -
9:19 - 9:21We knew something that Justine didn't.
-
9:21 - 9:23Can you think of anything
less judicial than this? -
9:23 - 9:26Justine was asleep on a plane
and unable to explain herself, -
9:26 - 9:30and her inability was
a huge part of the hilarity. -
9:31 - 9:35On Twitter that night, we were
like toddlers crawling towards a gun. -
9:36 - 9:39Somebody worked out exactly
which plane she was on, so they linked -
9:39 - 9:41to a flight tracker website.
-
9:41 - 9:44[British Airways Flight 43
On-time - arrives in 1 hour 34 minutes] -
9:44 - 9:47A hashtag began trending worldwide:
-
9:47 - 9:49# hasJustineLandedYet?
-
9:49 - 9:51[It is kinda wild
to see someone self-destruct -
9:51 - 9:54without them even being aware of it.
#hasJustineLandedYet] -
9:54 - 9:58[Seriously. I just want to go home
to go to bed, but everyone at the bar -
9:58 - 10:00is SO into #HasJustineLandedYet.
Can't look away. Can't leave.] -
10:01 - 10:04[#HasJustineLandedYet may be the best
thing to happen to my Friday night.] -
10:04 - 10:07[Is no one in Cape Town going
to the airport to tweet her arrival? -
10:07 - 10:09Come on, twitter! I'd like pictures]
-
10:09 - 10:10And guess what? Yes there was.
-
10:10 - 10:13[@JustineSacco HAS in fact landed
at Cape Town international. -
10:13 - 10:16And if you want to know
what it looks like to discover -
10:16 - 10:19that you've just been torn to shreds
because of a misconstrued liberal joke, -
10:19 - 10:21not by trolls, but by nice people like us,
-
10:22 - 10:23this is what it looks like:
-
10:23 - 10:26[... She's decided to wear
sunnies as a disguise.] -
10:26 - 10:27So why did we do it?
-
10:28 - 10:31I think some people were genuinely upset,
-
10:31 - 10:32but I think for other people,
-
10:32 - 10:35it's because Twitter is basically
a mutual approval machine. -
10:35 - 10:38We surround ourselves with people
who feel the same way we do, -
10:38 - 10:40and we approve each other,
-
10:40 - 10:41and that's a really good feeling.
-
10:41 - 10:44And if somebody gets in the way,
we screen them out. -
10:44 - 10:46And do you know what
that's the opposite of? -
10:46 - 10:48It's the opposite of democracy.
-
10:48 - 10:52We wanted to show that we cared
about people dying of AIDS in Africa. -
10:52 - 10:56Our desire to be seen to be compassionate
is what led us to commit -
10:56 - 10:59this profoundly un-compassionate act.
-
11:00 - 11:02As Meghan O'Gieblyn wrote
in the Boston Review, -
11:02 - 11:07"This isn't social justice.
It's a cathartic alternative." -
11:08 - 11:09For the past three years,
-
11:09 - 11:12I've been going around the world
meeting people like Justine Sacco -- -
11:12 - 11:15and believe me, there's a lot
of people like Justine Sacco. -
11:15 - 11:17There's more every day.
-
11:17 - 11:20And we want to think they're fine,
but they're not fine. -
11:20 - 11:22The people I met were mangled.
-
11:22 - 11:24They talked to me about depression,
-
11:24 - 11:28and anxiety and insomnia
and suicidal thoughts. -
11:28 - 11:33One woman I talked to,
who also told a joke that landed badly, -
11:33 - 11:35she stayed home for a year and a half.
-
11:35 - 11:40Before that, she worked with adults
with learning difficulties, -
11:40 - 11:42and was apparently really good at her job.
-
11:43 - 11:47Justine was fired, of course,
because social media demanded it. -
11:48 - 11:49But it was worse than that.
-
11:49 - 11:51She was losing herself.
-
11:51 - 11:55She was waking up in the middle
of the night, forgetting who she was. -
11:56 - 12:00She was got because she was perceived
to have misused her privilege. -
12:00 - 12:04And of course, that's a much better thing
to get people for than the things -
12:04 - 12:07we used to get people for,
like having children out of wedlock. -
12:07 - 12:10But the phrase "misuse of privilege"
is becoming a free pass -
12:10 - 12:13to tear apart pretty much
anybody we choose to. -
12:13 - 12:15It's becoming a devalued term,
-
12:15 - 12:18and it's making us lose
our capacity for empathy -
12:18 - 12:23and for distinguishing between serious
and unserious transgressions. -
12:24 - 12:28Justine had 170 Twitter followers,
and so to make it work, -
12:28 - 12:30she had to be fictionalized.
-
12:30 - 12:35Word got around that she was the daughter
the mining billionaire Desmond Sacco. -
12:35 - 12:38[Let us not be fooled by #JustineSacco
her father is a SA mining billionaire. -
12:38 - 12:40She's not sorry.
And neither is her father.] -
12:40 - 12:42I thought that was true about Justine,
-
12:42 - 12:46until I met her at a bar, and I asked her
about her billionaire father, -
12:46 - 12:48and she said, "My father sells carpets."
-
12:48 - 12:50And I think back on
the early days of Twitter, -
12:50 - 12:53when people would admit
shameful secrets about themselves, -
12:53 - 12:55and other people would say,
"Oh my God, I'm exactly the same." -
12:55 - 13:00These days, the hunt is on
for people's shameful secrets. -
13:00 - 13:02You can lead a good, ethical life,
-
13:02 - 13:06but some bad phraseology in a Tweet
can overwhelm it all, -
13:06 - 13:09become a clue to your secret inner evil.
-
13:10 - 13:12Maybe there's two types
of people in the world: -
13:12 - 13:16those people who favor
humans over ideology, -
13:16 - 13:19and those people who favor
ideology over humans. -
13:19 - 13:22I favor humans over ideology,
-
13:22 - 13:25but right now, the ideologues are winning,
-
13:25 - 13:29and they're creating a stage
for constant artificial high dramas -
13:29 - 13:32where everybody's either
a magnificent hero -
13:32 - 13:33or a sickening villain,
-
13:33 - 13:36even though we know that's not true
about our fellow humans. -
13:36 - 13:40What's true is that
we are clever and stupid; -
13:40 - 13:44what's true is that we're grey areas.
-
13:44 - 13:46The great thing about social media
was how it gave a voice -
13:47 - 13:48to voiceless people,
-
13:48 - 13:51but we're now creating
a surveillance society, -
13:51 - 13:55where the smartest way to survive
is to go back to being voiceless. -
13:55 - 13:57Let's not do that.
-
13:57 - 13:58Thank you.
-
13:58 - 14:04(Applause)
-
14:09 - 14:11Bruno Giussani: Thank you, Jon.
-
14:11 - 14:12Jon Ronson: Thanks, Bruno.
-
14:12 - 14:13BG: Don't go away.
-
14:15 - 14:17What strikes me about Justine's story
-
14:17 - 14:19is also the fact that if you
Google her name today, -
14:19 - 14:22this story covers the first
100 pages of Google results -- -
14:22 - 14:24there is nothing else about her.
-
14:24 - 14:27In your book, you mention another story
-
14:27 - 14:31of another victim who actually got
taken on by a reputation management firm, -
14:31 - 14:36and by creating blogs and posting nice,
innocuous stories about her love for cats -
14:36 - 14:39and holidays and stuff,
managed to get the story -
14:39 - 14:43off the first couple pages of Google
results, but it didn't last long. -
14:43 - 14:48A couple of weeks later, they started
creeping back up to the top result. -
14:48 - 14:50Is this a totally lost battle?
-
14:50 - 14:53Jon Ronson: You know, I think
the very best thing we can do, -
14:53 - 14:58if you see a kind of unfair
or an ambiguous shaming, -
14:58 - 15:01is to speak up, because I think
the worst thing that happened to Justine -
15:01 - 15:04was that nobody supported her --
like, everyone was against her, -
15:04 - 15:06and that is profoundly traumatizing,
-
15:06 - 15:10to be told by tens of thousands of people
that you need to get out. -
15:10 - 15:14But if a shaming happens and there's
a babble of voices, like in a democracy, -
15:14 - 15:17where people are discussing it,
I think that's much less damaging. -
15:17 - 15:19So I think that's the way forward,
-
15:19 - 15:21but it's hard, because if you do
stand up for somebody, -
15:22 - 15:23it's incredibly unpleasant.
-
15:23 - 15:25BG: So let's talk about your experience,
-
15:25 - 15:27because you stood up by writing this book.
-
15:27 - 15:30By the way, it's mandatory
reading for everybody, okay? -
15:30 - 15:34You stood up because the book
actually puts the spotlight on shamers. -
15:34 - 15:37And I assume you didn't only
have friendly reactions on Twitter. -
15:37 - 15:40JR: It didn't go down that well
with some people. -
15:40 - 15:41(Laughter)
-
15:41 - 15:43I mean, you don't want
to just concentrate -- -
15:43 - 15:46because lots of people understood,
and were really nice about the book. -
15:46 - 15:50But yeah, for 30 years I've been writing
stories about abuses of power, -
15:50 - 15:53and when I say the powerful people
over there in the military, -
15:53 - 15:56or in the pharmaceutical industry,
everybody applauds me. -
15:56 - 16:00As soon as I say, "We are the powerful
people abusing our power now," -
16:00 - 16:03I get people saying,
"Well you must be a racist too." -
16:03 - 16:06BG: So the other night --
yesterday -- we were at dinner, -
16:06 - 16:08and there were two discussions going on.
-
16:08 - 16:11On one side you were talking
with people around the table -- -
16:11 - 16:13and that was a nice,
constructive discussion. -
16:13 - 16:15On the other, every time
you turned to your phone, -
16:15 - 16:17there is this deluge of insults.
-
16:17 - 16:20JR: Yeah. This happened last night.
We had like a TED dinner last night. -
16:20 - 16:24We were chatting and it was lovely
and nice, and I decided to check Twitter. -
16:24 - 16:26Somebody said, "You are
a white supremacist." -
16:26 - 16:29And then I went back and had
a nice conversation with somebody, -
16:29 - 16:31and then I went back to Twitter,
-
16:31 - 16:34somebody said my very existence
made the world a worse place. -
16:34 - 16:37My friend Adam Curtis says
-
16:37 - 16:41that maybe the Internet is like
a John Carpenter movie from the 1980s, -
16:41 - 16:44when eventually everyone
will start screaming at each other -
16:44 - 16:46and shooting each other,
and then eventually everybody -
16:46 - 16:48would flee to somewhere safer,
-
16:48 - 16:52and I'm starting to think of that
as a really nice option. -
16:52 - 16:54BG: Jon, thank you.
JR: Thank you, Bruno. -
16:54 - 16:58(Applause)
- Title:
- When online shaming spirals out of control
- Speaker:
- Jon Ronson
- Description:
-
Twitter gives a voice to the voiceless, a way to speak up and hit back at perceived injustice. But sometimes, says Jon Ronson, things go too far. In a jaw-dropping story of how one un-funny tweet ruined a woman's life and career, Ronson shows how online commenters can end up behaving like a baying mob — and says it's time to rethink how we interact online.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 18:16
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for When online shaming goes too far | ||
Krystian Aparta edited English subtitles for When online shaming goes too far | ||
Elisabeth Buffard edited English subtitles for When online shaming goes too far | ||
Camille Martínez edited English subtitles for When online shaming goes too far | ||
Cynthia Betubiza edited English subtitles for When online shaming goes too far | ||
Camille Martínez approved English subtitles for When online shaming goes too far | ||
Camille Martínez edited English subtitles for When online shaming goes too far | ||
Camille Martínez edited English subtitles for When online shaming goes too far |