What animals are thinking and feeling, and why it should matter | Carl Safina | TEDxMidAtlantic
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0:20 - 0:22We start with a simple question:
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0:22 - 0:27"Does my pet really love me,
or does she just want a treat?" -
0:27 - 0:28(Laughter)
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0:28 - 0:32Obviously, she really loves us.
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0:32 - 0:33Obviously, right?
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0:33 - 0:35(Laughter)
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0:35 - 0:40How do we know what's really going on
in those furry little heads? -
0:40 - 0:42Something is going on.
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0:42 - 0:46Why is the question always
"Do they love me?" -
0:46 - 0:50Why is it always about us?
Why are we such narcissists? -
0:50 - 0:51(Laughter)
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0:51 - 0:53I have a different question.
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0:56 - 0:58Who are you?
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0:58 - 1:01That's a better question
for animals, I think. -
1:01 - 1:05We have things going on in our minds
that we tend to assume -
1:06 - 1:09are the exclusive abilities of humans.
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1:10 - 1:13But there are other brains out there.
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1:13 - 1:15Some of them are very big.
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1:15 - 1:17What are they doing with those big brains?
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1:18 - 1:21Can they think? Can they feel?
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1:21 - 1:26How can we possibly find a way
into that question? -
1:26 - 1:28Well, there are ways in.
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1:28 - 1:31We can look at the brain,
we can look at evolution, -
1:31 - 1:33and we can look at behaviors.
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1:34 - 1:38First thing we have to realize
is that our mind is inherited. -
1:39 - 1:42Our brain comes from somewhere else.
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1:42 - 1:44Jellyfish had the first nerves.
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1:45 - 1:48The first nerves gave us
the first spinal cords. -
1:48 - 1:51The first spinal cords
became the first vertebrates. -
1:51 - 1:55Vertebrates came out of the ocean
and started creating all kinds of trouble. -
1:56 - 2:01It's still true that nerves of a fish,
or a dog, or a person, -
2:01 - 2:04all are basically the same.
-
2:04 - 2:06It's their organization that matters.
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2:06 - 2:10But if the nerves are the same,
what does it have to say -
2:10 - 2:13about the possibility
of mental experiences? -
2:13 - 2:16Something like a crayfish, for instance.
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2:16 - 2:21It turns out that you can give
a crayfish anxiety disorder -
2:21 - 2:23by giving it little electric shocks
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2:23 - 2:25every time it tries
to come out of its burrow. -
2:25 - 2:32But if you give it the same drug that is
used to treat anxiety disorder in humans, -
2:32 - 2:37the crayfish relaxes, mellows out,
and comes out, and starts exploring. -
2:37 - 2:40The same thing with dogs
with obsessive compulsive disorder: -
2:40 - 2:43you give them the same drugs
used to treat OCD in humans, -
2:43 - 2:45it works for them too.
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2:45 - 2:50What does it have to say about
the parallel functionings of our brains? -
2:50 - 2:53Do we celebrate the anxiety of crayfish?
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2:53 - 2:55No, mostly we just boil them.
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2:55 - 2:56(Laughter)
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2:56 - 3:01Octopuses use tools,
as well as do most apes. -
3:01 - 3:04They recognize human faces.
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3:04 - 3:08Do we celebrate
the ape-like minds of octopi? -
3:08 - 3:10Mostly we boil them.
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3:12 - 3:17When grouper fish chase a prey fish
into a crevice in the coral, -
3:17 - 3:21they will go to where they know
a moray eel is sleeping, -
3:21 - 3:24and they will signal
to the moray, "Follow me!" -
3:24 - 3:27The moray goes. The moray
will slither into the crevice. -
3:27 - 3:29Sometimes the moray will get the fish.
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3:29 - 3:33Sometimes the fish bolts,
and the grouper gets it. -
3:33 - 3:35It's a partnership.
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3:35 - 3:39How do we celebrate the partnership
between groupers and moray eels? -
3:39 - 3:41Mostly fried.
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3:41 - 3:43(Laughter)
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3:46 - 3:50Sea otters use stone tools,
and sea otters take time away -
3:50 - 3:56from their own doings
to teach baby sea otters what to do. -
3:56 - 4:01Chimpanzees use tools,
but chimpanzees don't take time to teach. -
4:02 - 4:06Killer whales teach, and they share food.
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4:07 - 4:09When we look at human brains,
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4:09 - 4:14we see that the human brain
is an elaboration on earlier brains, -
4:14 - 4:18an elaboration that comes
through the long sweep of evolution. -
4:19 - 4:22If you look at the human brain
and a chimpanzee brain, -
4:22 - 4:27you see that the human brain
is basically a very big chimpanzee brain. -
4:27 - 4:31It's big at least, so we can retain
a certain insecure sense -
4:31 - 4:33of our own superiority,
-
4:33 - 4:35which is the main thing
that matters to us. -
4:35 - 4:41But, uh-oh, there is a dolphin brain -
bigger, more convolutions. -
4:41 - 4:43What is it doing with that brain?
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4:44 - 4:48We can see brains, but cannot see minds.
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4:49 - 4:55Yet, we can see the workings of minds
in the logic of behaviors. -
4:58 - 5:00These elephants
in this family of elephants -
5:00 - 5:04have found a shady patch under the palms.
-
5:04 - 5:08That's a good place
to let the babies go to sleep. -
5:08 - 5:10The adults are resting too,
but they are just dozing, -
5:10 - 5:13and they are staying
a little bit vigilant all the time. -
5:13 - 5:19We make sense of that, because they
make sense of the world in similar ways. -
5:19 - 5:22They look relaxed
because they are relaxed. -
5:22 - 5:23They've chosen the shade
-
5:23 - 5:26for the same reason
we would choose the shade. -
5:27 - 5:29These elephants don't look relaxed.
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5:29 - 5:32No one would make that mistake
looking at them. -
5:32 - 5:35They seem alarmed. They are alarmed.
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5:35 - 5:37There are dangers.
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5:37 - 5:39There are people who hurt them.
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5:39 - 5:43It turns out that, if you record
the conversations of tourists -
5:43 - 5:47and you record
the conversations of herders, -
5:47 - 5:49who sometimes hurt elephants,
-
5:49 - 5:51and then you play it
through a hidden speaker, -
5:51 - 5:54the elephants ignore the tourists,
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5:54 - 6:00but they bunch up and flee in fear
from the conversations of herders. -
6:00 - 6:04They put different kinds of humans
in different categories. -
6:04 - 6:06They know what's going on.
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6:06 - 6:09They know who their friends are;
they know who their enemies are; -
6:09 - 6:11they know who their family members are;
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6:11 - 6:15they have the same
imperatives that we have. -
6:15 - 6:20Whether on land or in the sea,
it's the same: stay alive, -
6:20 - 6:23keep your babies alive, let life continue.
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6:23 - 6:29We see and understand helping.
We see curiosity in the young. -
6:30 - 6:33We see the bonds of family members.
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6:35 - 6:39We recognize affection for what it is.
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6:41 - 6:43Courtship is courtship.
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6:46 - 6:50People sometimes still ask:
"But are they conscious?" -
6:50 - 6:54Well, when you get general anesthesia,
you become unconscious. -
6:54 - 6:57It means that all of your
sensory input is stopped. -
6:57 - 7:00You have no sensation
of the world around you. -
7:00 - 7:01That's unconscious.
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7:01 - 7:04When you have sensation
of the world around you, -
7:04 - 7:05you are conscious.
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7:05 - 7:07Consciousness is very widespread.
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7:08 - 7:12Some people think
that empathy is a very special thing -
7:12 - 7:14that only humans have.
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7:14 - 7:19But empathy is simply the mind's ability
to match the mood of your companions. -
7:19 - 7:22It's very useful, and it's very important.
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7:22 - 7:24You have to know
what's going on around you, -
7:24 - 7:25what everybody is doing.
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7:25 - 7:29The oldest kind of empathy
is called contagious fear. -
7:29 - 7:34If you are with a bunch of companions,
and they suddenly all startle and leave, -
7:34 - 7:36it's not very good for you
to be staying there, -
7:36 - 7:39saying, "Hey, I wonder
why everybody has just left?" -
7:39 - 7:40(Laughter)
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7:41 - 7:45Through evolution, empathy has been
embellished as well. -
7:46 - 7:49I think there are sort of
three stages of empathy. -
7:49 - 7:53There is feeling with another:
I see you happy, it makes me happy; -
7:53 - 7:55I see you sad, it makes me sad.
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7:55 - 7:59Then there is sympathy:
I'm sorry your grandmother died. -
8:00 - 8:04I don't feel the same way
that you do, but I sympathize. -
8:04 - 8:06And then, there is what I call compassion,
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8:06 - 8:09meaning "acting on your
feeling for another." -
8:11 - 8:13[Human Empathy: Far From Perfect]
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8:13 - 8:16Far from being a special thing
that only humans have, -
8:16 - 8:19human empathy is far from perfect.
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8:19 - 8:24We round up empathic animals;
we kill them, and we eat them. -
8:24 - 8:27And you might say,
"Well, that's just predation. -
8:27 - 8:28That is a different species."
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8:28 - 8:31Humans are predators,
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8:31 - 8:35but we're not so great to our own
species either a lot of the time. -
8:36 - 8:41I've noticed that people who know only one
thing about animal behavior know this word -
8:41 - 8:46and that "you must never project human
feelings and emotions on other animals." -
8:46 - 8:47[Anthropomorphism]
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8:47 - 8:51But I'm here to tell you
that I think projecting human emotions -
8:51 - 8:53and human thoughts on other animals
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8:53 - 8:58is the best first guess
about what they are doing and why. -
8:58 - 9:01After all, it's not terribly scientific
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9:01 - 9:04to say they are hungry,
when they are eating, -
9:04 - 9:07and they are tired,
when their tongues are hanging out, -
9:07 - 9:10and then, when they are playing
and seem joyful, -
9:10 - 9:15say, "We have no way of knowing
what's going on in their minds." -
9:15 - 9:16Now, recently,
-
9:16 - 9:20I sort of had a conversation
with a reporter, and the reporter said, -
9:20 - 9:24"OK, that's kind of convincing,
but, really, how do you really know -
9:24 - 9:27that other animals think and feel?"
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9:27 - 9:31And I thought of the hundreds
of scientific references that I read -
9:31 - 9:33when I was writing my book.
-
9:33 - 9:37But then I realized that the answer
was right in the room with me: -
9:37 - 9:41that when my pup comes off the rug
and comes over to me, -
9:41 - 9:44rolls over on her back
and exposes her belly, -
9:44 - 9:48she's had the thought,
"I would like my belly rubbed." -
9:48 - 9:53And she knows that she
can come to me, not the sofa, -
9:53 - 9:59that I will understand her request,
and that I can get the job done, -
9:59 - 10:04and she anticipates the pleasure
of having her belly rubbed. -
10:04 - 10:06She can think, and she can feel.
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10:06 - 10:09And it is not much more
complicated than that. -
10:09 - 10:13Usually, when we see animals, we say,
"Oh, look! There are elephants," -
10:13 - 10:15or "There are killer whales!"
or whatever it is we see. -
10:15 - 10:18But to them, they know
exactly who they are. -
10:18 - 10:20This is not just killer whales.
-
10:20 - 10:23That one with the tall fin,
that male there, -
10:23 - 10:26he is 36-year-old L41.
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10:26 - 10:29Right to his left is his sister.
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10:29 - 10:33She is 42-year-old L44.
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10:33 - 10:37They have been together for decades.
They know exactly who they are. -
10:37 - 10:40This is Philo the elephant.
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10:41 - 10:43This is Philo the elephant
four days later. -
10:44 - 10:49Humans not only feel grief,
humans create grief. -
10:50 - 10:55We want to carve their teeth.
Why don't we wait for them to die? -
10:56 - 10:58Elephants used to live from the shores
of the Mediterranean -
10:58 - 11:01to the Cape of Good Hope in Africa.
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11:01 - 11:05By 1980 they still had vast strongholds
in Central and East Africa. -
11:05 - 11:09Their ranges are being fractured
and fragmented. -
11:09 - 11:12This is the geography
of a magnificent creature -
11:12 - 11:15that we are driving to extinction.
-
11:17 - 11:21We do much better in our own
national parks here in the United States. -
11:22 - 11:25We simply killed
every single wolf in Yellowstone. -
11:26 - 11:27Then, sixty years later,
-
11:27 - 11:31we brought them back
because the elk had gotten out of control. -
11:33 - 11:36Many thousands of people
spent many million of dollars -
11:36 - 11:39coming to the park to watch
the world's most famous wolves. -
11:40 - 11:44These are the alpha trio
of a very stable pack. -
11:45 - 11:49That one on the right there
is the breeding male. -
11:49 - 11:52The one on the left is his mate.
-
11:52 - 11:54The other one is his brother.
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11:54 - 11:58Then, suddenly, wolves came off
the Endangered Species Act. -
11:58 - 12:00Congress took wolves off.
-
12:00 - 12:02The wolves went to the edge of the park.
-
12:03 - 12:05Those two were shot.
-
12:05 - 12:11The entire pack, which had been so stable,
disintegrated into fighting and division. -
12:13 - 12:16The alpha male of the most famous,
most stable pack in Yellowstone -
12:16 - 12:20lost his companions, his hunting territory
and his whole family. -
12:20 - 12:22We bring them a lot of harm.
-
12:22 - 12:27One of the mysteries is:
why don't they harm us very much at all? -
12:27 - 12:30No free-living killer whale
has ever hurt a human being. -
12:30 - 12:33This one had just finished eating
part of a gray whale -
12:33 - 12:35that he and his family had killed,
-
12:35 - 12:37but those people in the boat
had absolutely nothing to fear. -
12:37 - 12:42This one had just eaten a seal that weight
as much as those people in the boat, -
12:42 - 12:45but they had absolutely nothing to fear.
-
12:45 - 12:47They eat seals.
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12:48 - 12:50Why don't they ever eat us?
-
12:51 - 12:54How is it we can trust them
around our toddlers? -
12:55 - 13:00Why is it that, on more than one occasion,
killer whales have returned to researchers -
13:00 - 13:04who got lost in the fog
and guided them miles to home? -
13:07 - 13:08In the Bahamas,
-
13:09 - 13:12dolphins who were very familiar
with Denise Herzing, -
13:12 - 13:15a researcher there,
and very interactive with her, -
13:15 - 13:17suddenly got entirely skittish.
-
13:17 - 13:18What in the world was going on?
-
13:18 - 13:23Suddenly somebody on the boat realized
that a person in the boat had died -
13:23 - 13:24during a nap in their bunk.
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13:24 - 13:29How could the dolphins have detected
that one of the human hearts had stopped? -
13:29 - 13:31And why would it spook them?
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13:31 - 13:34These are the mysteries of other minds.
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13:35 - 13:39In an aquarium in South Africa,
there was a baby bottlenose dolphin. -
13:39 - 13:40Her name was Dolly.
-
13:40 - 13:43One of the keepers
was on a break having a smoke -
13:43 - 13:46outside the window to the tank.
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13:46 - 13:50Dolly was watching him smoke.
She went over to her mother. -
13:50 - 13:54She nursed for a couple of moments,
she came back to the window, -
13:54 - 13:57and she released a cloud of milk
that enveloped her head -
13:57 - 13:59like a cloud of smoke.
-
13:59 - 14:00(Laughter)
-
14:01 - 14:07Somehow, she had the idea
of using milk to represent smoke. -
14:07 - 14:12And when we use one thing
to represent another, we call it art. -
14:13 - 14:14(Laughter)
-
14:14 - 14:18The things that make us human
are not what we think. -
14:18 - 14:22What makes us human
is that we are the most extreme. -
14:22 - 14:26We are the most compassionate;
we are the most violent. -
14:26 - 14:30We are the most creative,
and we are the most destructive animals -
14:30 - 14:33ever to appear on this planet.
-
14:34 - 14:38But we are not the only animals
that love one another. -
14:38 - 14:44We are not the only ones who care
for our mates or for our children. -
14:44 - 14:48Albatrosses routinely fly
six to ten thousand miles -
14:48 - 14:52to bring back one meal for their chick.
-
14:52 - 14:55They live on the most
remote islands in the world, -
14:55 - 14:58and those islands are covered
with plastic trash. -
14:58 - 15:03Into the sacred chain of being that gives
life from one generation to the next -
15:03 - 15:05is our garbage.
-
15:06 - 15:10Here is an albatross chick,
who was about six months old. -
15:10 - 15:13It was about to start flying. It died.
-
15:13 - 15:16It was packed with red cigarette lighters.
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15:16 - 15:20This is not the relationship we are
supposed to have with the world, -
15:20 - 15:26but we, with our big,
celebrated brains, don't use them. -
15:27 - 15:30Yet, when we welcome
new life into the world, -
15:31 - 15:33we welcome them with pictures of animals.
-
15:33 - 15:38We don't paint cell phones
and work cubicles on nursery walls. -
15:38 - 15:39(Laughter)
-
15:39 - 15:42We want to say,
"Look who is here with us!" -
15:43 - 15:45And yet, every one of those,
-
15:45 - 15:49every one deemed worthy
of being saved on Noah's Arc, -
15:49 - 15:54is in mortal danger now,
and the flood is us. -
15:56 - 16:01We started with a question:
"Do they love us?" -
16:02 - 16:06We need to get outside ourselves
a little bit and ask: -
16:06 - 16:10"Do we have what it takes
-
16:11 - 16:15to simply let life on Earth continue?"
-
16:20 - 16:21Thank you.
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16:21 - 16:23(Applause)
- Title:
- What animals are thinking and feeling, and why it should matter | Carl Safina | TEDxMidAtlantic
- Description:
-
Carl Safina takes us inside the lives and minds of animals around the world, witnessing their profound capacity for perception, thought and emotion, showing why the word "it" is often inappropriate as we discover "who" they really are. And yet, we are wiping out the very animals we should celebrate; we are the flood coming for Noah's Ark. Carl leaves us with a difficult question: Do we have what it takes to let life on earth survive?
Carl Safina’s work has been recognized with MacArthur, Pew, and Guggenheim Fellowships, and his writing has won the Lannan Literary Award and the John Burroughs, James Beard, and George Rabb medals. He has a PhD in ecology from Rutgers University. Safina is the inaugural endowed professor for nature and humanity at Stony Brook University, where he co-chairs the steering committee of the Alan Alda Center for Communicating Science and is founding president of the not-for-profit Safina Center. He hosted the 10-part PBS series Saving the Ocean with Carl Safina. His writing appears in The New York Times, National Geographic, Audubon and other periodicals, and on the Web at National Geographic News and Views, Huffington Post, and CNN.com. Carl Safina’s writing shows how humanity is changing the natural world and what those changes mean for wildlife and for people.
This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at http://ted.com/tedx
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDxTalks
- Duration:
- 16:28
Milena Tomol
I would love to translate this talk into Russian. Please, please, please notify me when the transcript is approved!
Thank you,
Milena Tomol