The science of emotions | Jaak Panksepp | TEDxRainier
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0:10 - 0:13What would art be like without emotions?
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0:13 - 0:15It would be empty.
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0:15 - 0:18What would our lives
be like without emotions? -
0:18 - 0:20They would be empty of values.
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0:20 - 0:24So a famous classical poet said,
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0:24 - 0:29"We hate and we love;
can one tell me why?" – Catullus. -
0:31 - 0:35Science does not answer why questions;
science answers how questions. -
0:36 - 0:40But the why question would
be answered as follows. -
0:40 - 0:42We have feelings because they tell us
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0:42 - 0:47what supports our survival
and what detracts from our survival. -
0:47 - 0:50And I've been in this field now
for half a century, -
0:52 - 0:54and it's been a fairly lonely field
-
0:55 - 0:59because when I was a student
in electrical engineering, -
1:01 - 1:03I started getting bored,
-
1:03 - 1:06and I worked in the back ward
of a psychiatric hospital -
1:06 - 1:11and saw human tragedies,
their emotional tragedies. -
1:12 - 1:17No one knew what emotions were,
how we get these feelings, -
1:17 - 1:20so I decided to shift to neuroscience –
-
1:20 - 1:24first clinical psychology,
then neuroscience, -
1:24 - 1:27that is the only path
to understanding how we feel. -
1:28 - 1:31This seems to be an impenetrable mystery,
-
1:31 - 1:36but it is potentially penetrable
with neuroscience, -
1:36 - 1:39especially if we take the emotions
of animals seriously. -
1:39 - 1:41And a friend sent me these pictures.
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1:41 - 1:43A little fawn was injured,
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1:43 - 1:46and the dog took
a special interest in the fawn. -
1:46 - 1:48Now is the dog thinking -
-
1:50 - 1:52(Laughter)
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1:52 - 1:54[You smell good?]
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1:54 - 1:56Or interesting?
-
1:56 - 1:59We cannot penetrate
the cognitive mind of animals -
1:59 - 2:04even though they are very skilled
in living as we saw earlier this morning. -
2:04 - 2:05So second picture.
-
2:06 - 2:07Is the dog saying,
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2:08 - 2:09"I like you"?
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2:09 - 2:10[I want to eat you?]
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2:10 - 2:12(Laughter)
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2:12 - 2:14or even "I love you"?
-
2:16 - 2:18We cannot penetrate
those kinds of thoughts, -
2:18 - 2:22but we can penetrate
feelings scientifically, -
2:22 - 2:23but only with neuroscience.
-
2:23 - 2:26And if we understand
the emotions of other animals, -
2:26 - 2:29I think we will begin
to understand our own emotions. -
2:31 - 2:34An artist drew this for me
about a year ago, -
2:34 - 2:37and even chickens have emotions,
-
2:37 - 2:41so we mapped out
sadness systems in chickens, -
2:42 - 2:44and they turn out
to be the same as in guinea pigs, -
2:44 - 2:48and it looks like they're very similar
to those in human brains - -
2:48 - 2:49that's quite a shocker.
-
2:49 - 2:53Now the animal mind
is of great interest to us right now, -
2:53 - 2:57and I suspect that if we
really focus on their feelings, -
2:57 - 3:00we will finally begin
to understand our own. -
3:00 - 3:03So our approach has required neuroscience,
-
3:03 - 3:05and we can actually turn on emotions
-
3:05 - 3:08by stimulating
specific areas of the brain. -
3:08 - 3:11We've known this for quite a while,
-
3:11 - 3:13but I was among the first to ask:
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3:13 - 3:17when we turn on emotion,
does the animal feel good or bad? -
3:17 - 3:19The animal can give us that answer
-
3:19 - 3:22because it can turn on
this stimulation if given the chance, -
3:22 - 3:24or you can turn it off,
-
3:24 - 3:26and that is our measure of feelings.
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3:27 - 3:31So we're very similar
at the bottom of our minds, -
3:31 - 3:34and we're very very different
at the top of our minds. -
3:34 - 3:38We are the cognitive creatures,
they are the emotional creatures, -
3:38 - 3:42but they, obviously, must have thoughts
about their lives and the world. -
3:44 - 3:46So this is a powerful emotion,
-
3:47 - 3:50we get angry and we get scared
-
3:50 - 3:53because of very similar
systems in our brain. -
3:54 - 3:55And it turns out
-
3:55 - 3:58that wherever you produce this anger
response in animals, -
3:58 - 4:01they turned it off;
they don't like that feeling. -
4:01 - 4:04So there is something
like anger in the animal brain, -
4:04 - 4:06and if we understand those circuits,
-
4:06 - 4:11we might have new treatments
for irritability disorder, -
4:11 - 4:13someone who is continually getting angry,
-
4:13 - 4:15and you say, "Take a pill,"
-
4:15 - 4:17well, we have no pill.
-
4:18 - 4:22But we do have knowledge
about seven basic emotional systems. -
4:22 - 4:24We call them Primary Emotions,
-
4:24 - 4:25we capitalize them
-
4:25 - 4:29because this requires
a specialized terminology for science; -
4:29 - 4:34otherwise, we have confusing conversations
because of so many words. -
4:34 - 4:36So what feeling does the SEEKING system,
-
4:36 - 4:39others still call it the reward system,
-
4:39 - 4:43the feeling is not pleasure,
the feeling is enthusiasm, -
4:43 - 4:45this is diminished in depression.
-
4:45 - 4:49And I'll show you
one clinical trial we're running -
4:49 - 4:54where we're facilitating enthusiasm
directly through deep brain stimulation. -
4:56 - 4:58That's the feeling
-
4:58 - 4:59(Laughter)
-
4:59 - 5:00in the vernacular,
-
5:01 - 5:04I'm using everyday terms here, of course.
-
5:05 - 5:07There are many sources
of anxiety in the world, -
5:07 - 5:10but we only have one powerful fear system.
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5:11 - 5:14And what shall we call
the feeling of LUST? -
5:15 - 5:16Well -
-
5:16 - 5:18(Laughter)
-
5:18 - 5:21I thought of "passion,"
but that is too broad a term. -
5:21 - 5:24Now CARE is tender and loving,
-
5:25 - 5:28it's hard to describe
these pre-verbal powers of the mind. -
5:29 - 5:32The PANIC system generates
loneliness and sadness, -
5:32 - 5:37and like I've told you,
in chickens we measure separation calls. -
5:38 - 5:42So PLAY brings you great joy.
-
5:42 - 5:46If you have too much psychological pain,
namely the PANIC system, -
5:46 - 5:49can cause panic attacks also.
-
5:49 - 5:53This is the gateway to depression:
too much psychological pain. -
5:53 - 5:55If it's way beyond bounds,
-
5:55 - 5:58people begin to think
about killing themselves. -
5:59 - 6:01So we have developed one antidepressant
-
6:01 - 6:06by focusing on the molecular biology
of happiness and joy, -
6:06 - 6:08and it is currently in human testing.
-
6:09 - 6:15Yes, that is the way tender,
loving feelings feel in the mind, -
6:15 - 6:17it has a certain dynamic.
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6:17 - 6:22It comes across in the body
the way the mother caresses a child, -
6:22 - 6:24and a child that doesn't have that
-
6:24 - 6:27will have psychological problems
for the rest of his or her life. -
6:29 - 6:32So if we understand
these emotional systems, -
6:32 - 6:35some of them will be rewarding,
some are punishing, -
6:35 - 6:37but they're never neutral,
-
6:37 - 6:40and that is the evidence
that they have emotional feelings. -
6:41 - 6:46And we can predict that if we stimulate
the RAGE system in humans, -
6:46 - 6:48they will be very angry,
-
6:48 - 6:52and it has been shown, just accidentally
during surgical procedures. -
6:53 - 6:59So let's focus on this PANIC system
that we started to study 45 years ago. -
7:01 - 7:04When you separate a young one
from the mother, they begin to cry -
7:04 - 7:08because the mother
is the absolute source of security, -
7:09 - 7:11and we started measuring this crying
-
7:11 - 7:14and trying to figure
out a neuro anatomy of it -
7:14 - 7:16and the neurochemistries,
-
7:16 - 7:21and that has led to new treatments
for depression as well as for suicide. -
7:23 - 7:25If you take a little bird,
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7:25 - 7:27and they're born
and they're walking around -
7:27 - 7:30and they're crying, crying, crying
looking for their mother, -
7:30 - 7:35as soon as they find the mother's wings,
they settle down and they're comfortable, -
7:35 - 7:37and we can simulate this
-
7:37 - 7:40by simply holding
the little ones in our hands, -
7:40 - 7:43they immediately quiet down,
they feel comfortable, -
7:43 - 7:46their beak goes down,
and they fall asleep. -
7:46 - 7:49This is because we're activating
-
7:50 - 7:54chemicals that counteract
psychological pain, -
7:54 - 7:58and the most powerful chemistry
for this turns out to be brain opioids - -
7:59 - 8:01that's a shocker.
-
8:02 - 8:05It turns out that our love
and our attachment -
8:05 - 8:07are partially addictive phenomena;
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8:08 - 8:11they ride upon our internal opioids.
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8:11 - 8:16They provide us with a sense of security
that everything is right in the world. -
8:18 - 8:19So there we are,
-
8:19 - 8:22that is the reason we become
addicted to these molecules, -
8:22 - 8:25and it's a tragedy of our country
that we put people in jail -
8:25 - 8:28as opposed to putting them
in treatment facilities -
8:28 - 8:31to explain what's happening
in their brains. -
8:31 - 8:33I think it would be wonderful
-
8:33 - 8:35if our government
had an open conversation -
8:35 - 8:37about the sources
of addiction in our brain. -
8:38 - 8:41Opioids mediate motherly love,
-
8:42 - 8:45the attachment bond
between mother and child, -
8:46 - 8:48the attachment bond
between loving adults. -
8:49 - 8:54And then we found that the molecule
that releases milk from the breast -
8:54 - 8:58also is very powerful in the brain
in reducing the panic response, -
8:58 - 9:01the separation distress response,
-
9:01 - 9:05and lo and behold, the molecule
that manufactured milk in the breast -
9:05 - 9:09is equally effective
in reducing separation distress. -
9:09 - 9:13So the physiology of motherhood
is the physiology of love, -
9:15 - 9:16and we mapped this system
-
9:16 - 9:20with deep brain stimulation
in guinea pigs first and then chickens, -
9:20 - 9:21and the anatomy was the same,
-
9:21 - 9:24the neurochemistries were the same.
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9:24 - 9:28And you see that
in the guinea pig picture, -
9:28 - 9:30a deep sub cortical system
-
9:30 - 9:33where you can activate
the separation cries, -
9:33 - 9:37and even if you take an adult guinea pig
that no longer cries, -
9:37 - 9:39if you put an electrode in there,
-
9:39 - 9:43they will cry like a little baby
as long as you provide the stimulation. -
9:43 - 9:45So where does it go?
-
9:45 - 9:48It kind of develops inhibition
from higher brain areas. -
9:48 - 9:52Testosterone is something
that counteracts crying, -
9:52 - 9:56that's why there's a large difference
in male and female emotions. -
9:56 - 10:01Antonio Damasio imaged
emotional feelings for the first time -
10:02 - 10:04and found a very similar trajectory,
-
10:04 - 10:09and then Jon Kar Zubieta,
the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, -
10:09 - 10:13found that human depression and sadness
-
10:13 - 10:17were low opioids
in these same brain areas - -
10:17 - 10:18remarkable!
-
10:18 - 10:23We are brothers and sisters under the skin
with all the other animals, -
10:23 - 10:26which provides us
with a special responsibility -
10:26 - 10:29for how we treat them
in this world of ours, -
10:29 - 10:33the wonderful pictures
we saw art share with you. -
10:34 - 10:37So we have generated three new concepts.
-
10:37 - 10:42The first one is to use safe opioids,
not only to treat depression, -
10:42 - 10:47and buprenorphine is a safe opioid
because you can't kill yourself with it. -
10:48 - 10:51Respiratory depression
does not get so extreme -
10:51 - 10:55because it begins to block
its own action at higher doses, -
10:55 - 10:58and this could be used for depression
for the last 30 years, -
10:58 - 11:02but we don't have a culture
that permits this. -
11:02 - 11:06And we're testing this
as an anti-suicide agent in Israel, -
11:06 - 11:09so we're using the Beck suicide
inventory in people -
11:09 - 11:12that are thinking
about taking their lives. -
11:12 - 11:15During the first week
in these four individuals, -
11:16 - 11:21all four showed benefits
from both placebo and buprenorphine. -
11:21 - 11:25Now placebos release opioids in the brain,
-
11:26 - 11:30but by the second week
the placebo was no longer effective -
11:30 - 11:32but buprenorphine still was.
-
11:32 - 11:37This led us to test 60 people,
double-blind, placebo-controlled, -
11:37 - 11:40and that trial will be
finished by Christmas. -
11:42 - 11:43And it will work,
-
11:43 - 11:44I am confident.
-
11:45 - 11:47The second concept
-
11:47 - 11:53has been to use deep brain stimulation
to restore enthusiasm for life, -
11:54 - 11:56and this cannot be easily done in America.
-
11:56 - 11:59I did convince colleagues in Europe
-
11:59 - 12:03who are doing deep brain stimulation
for Parkinson's disease -
12:03 - 12:07to move their electrode slightly
into the SEEKING system, -
12:07 - 12:09because we know from animal work,
-
12:09 - 12:12if you over-stimulate
the separation PANIC system, -
12:12 - 12:18it decreases the enthusiasm for life
as this attempts to summarize. -
12:20 - 12:25And if you could elevate
the seeking mood directly, -
12:25 - 12:29the enthusiasm mood,
it should have antidepressant effects, -
12:29 - 12:30and lo and behold,
-
12:30 - 12:34they published this paper
about the middle of July: -
12:34 - 12:36six of seven depressed people
-
12:36 - 12:39that had not gotten
any benefits from anything, -
12:39 - 12:41including electroconvulsive shock,
-
12:41 - 12:46showed dramatic elevations
in the desire to live -
12:46 - 12:49and enthusiasm to do things in the world,
-
12:49 - 12:55they were basically normalized
by facilitating the SEEKING system. -
12:56 - 13:02And finally, we have
been using PLAY as a model -
13:02 - 13:06for identifying new molecules
for antidepressants. -
13:06 - 13:09What would be better
than some molecular pathway -
13:09 - 13:12to facilitate social joy?
-
13:12 - 13:16The only thing better is to live
in the human family, happily, -
13:16 - 13:22with art, culture, music,
all of the fine things in life. -
13:22 - 13:27Of course, human relationships
are the best antidepressants, -
13:27 - 13:29but we have joy systems in the brain,
-
13:29 - 13:32and we can figure out the molecules,
-
13:32 - 13:36and we have done that
with my Northwestern colleagues, -
13:37 - 13:40and we have developed
a new antidepressant -
13:40 - 13:41that came from the analysis
-
13:41 - 13:46of cortical changes
in gene expression patterns -
13:47 - 13:51and checking out the candidates
as possible antidepressants. -
13:51 - 13:53And the first couple were antidepressants,
-
13:53 - 13:56but they also had medical dangers,
-
13:56 - 14:01but we found one that didn't have
any of these problems. -
14:01 - 14:05By analyzing rats playing,
purely positively, -
14:05 - 14:08I've gotten a famous name
of the rat tickler - -
14:08 - 14:10(Laughter)
-
14:11 - 14:15(Video) Jaak Panksepp: We have listened
to animals playing - this is from 1998 - -
14:15 - 14:19what appeared to be
the sounds of laughter, -
14:19 - 14:21and we studied these for a couple of years
-
14:21 - 14:25without quite understanding
that this might be laughter. -
14:28 - 14:31And then one day we decided
to tickle some animals, -
14:32 - 14:35and we realized
that we had to look at the sounds -
14:35 - 14:38at a very different register
than we can hear, -
14:39 - 14:44so we obtained these transducers
that are called bat detectors, -
14:44 - 14:48that can bring very high frequencies
down to our auditory range, -
14:48 - 14:51and when we did this
and we listened in, -
14:51 - 14:53we could tickle animals
-
14:53 - 14:57and generate a lot of vocal activity
-
14:57 - 14:59that appeared to be laughter.
-
15:02 - 15:06These animals would
begin to enjoy our company, -
15:06 - 15:08and they would start
to play with our hands, -
15:08 - 15:13and wherever we will put our hands
they would follow it. -
15:17 - 15:19And when we tested these animals
-
15:19 - 15:22to ask whether they were enjoying
this kind of activity, -
15:22 - 15:25the unambiguous answer was yes.
-
15:25 - 15:27(Laughter)
-
15:27 - 15:31(Applause)
-
15:34 - 15:35(On stage) JP: I might share
-
15:35 - 15:39that the day before
that was filmed by the BBC, -
15:39 - 15:41our first publication in that area,
-
15:41 - 15:45they told me I had no more
than a year to live, no matter what. -
15:45 - 15:47So, glad to be here with you.
-
15:47 - 15:50(Cheers) (Applause)
-
15:54 - 15:58If we finally take the emotions
of the other animals seriously, -
15:58 - 16:00we will finally understand
-
16:01 - 16:07how we have these feelings
of joy and sorrow, anger and sadness. -
16:10 - 16:13Essentially, this molecule
is called GLYX-13, -
16:13 - 16:14it's a very long story
-
16:14 - 16:17that I don't have time
to share with you here, -
16:17 - 16:21but it is already in phase two
FDA approved human testing. -
16:22 - 16:26Single injection produced
antidepressant effects immediately, -
16:26 - 16:30and those effects
from the one treatment lasted a week. -
16:32 - 16:36No psychiatric medicine has yet
been developed by human knowledge; -
16:36 - 16:40so far everything has been discovered
by serendipity and chance. -
16:40 - 16:42Science has only refined the molecules.
-
16:42 - 16:47This may be the first psychiatric medicine
to come from human knowledge -
16:47 - 16:50by taking animal feeling seriously,
-
16:50 - 16:54and this has no poisonous properties
as far as we can tell; -
16:54 - 16:57it's also not addictive.
-
16:57 - 17:01So finally, this is the conclusion
of a 50-year-old journey. -
17:04 - 17:09I do hope that people
take a very different attitude to animals -
17:09 - 17:11than has been common,
-
17:11 - 17:17in research and a variety
of other human activities. -
17:17 - 17:19We are brothers
and sisters under the skin, -
17:19 - 17:22and we better recognize that.
-
17:22 - 17:25And once we understand them,
we will finally understand ourselves. -
17:25 - 17:27Thank you.
-
17:27 - 17:29(Applause)
- Title:
- The science of emotions | Jaak Panksepp | TEDxRainier
- Description:
-
Given an inherent subjective nature, emotions have long been a nearly impenetrable topic for scientific research. Affective neuroscientist Jaak Panksepp explains a modern approach to emotions, and how taking seriously the emotions of other animals might soon improve the lives of millions.
Jaak Panksepp introduced the concept of Affective Neuroscience in 1990, consisting of an overarching vision of how mammalian brains generate experienced affective states in animals, as effective models for fathoming the primal evolutionary sources of emotional feelings in human beings.
This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at http://ted.com/tedx
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDxTalks
- Duration:
- 17:40
Peter van de Ven approved English subtitles for The science of emotions | Jaak Panksepp | TEDxRainier | ||
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Peter van de Ven edited English subtitles for The science of emotions | Jaak Panksepp | TEDxRainier | ||
Peter van de Ven edited English subtitles for The science of emotions | Jaak Panksepp | TEDxRainier | ||
Peter van de Ven edited English subtitles for The science of emotions | Jaak Panksepp | TEDxRainier | ||
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Denise RQ
Hi mswells,
https://amara.org/en/profiles/profile/mswells/ (with no known TED profile).
This transcript does not correspond to the speaker's talk.
Task will thus be returned to the pool.
Best,
Retired user
The first version transcript belongs to the talk
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