How I help free innocent people from prison
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0:01 - 0:08So, imagine that you take
a 19-hour, very long drive -
0:08 - 0:09to Disney World,
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0:09 - 0:11with two kids in the back seat.
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0:12 - 0:17And 15 minutes into this 19-hour trip,
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0:19 - 0:21the immutable laws of nature dictate
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0:21 - 0:23that you get the question:
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0:23 - 0:25"Are we there yet?"
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0:25 - 0:26(Laughter)
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0:27 - 0:30So you answer this question
a hundred more times, easily, -
0:30 - 0:31in the negative,
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0:31 - 0:33but you finally arrive.
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0:33 - 0:35You have a wonderful,
wonderful, wonderful trip. -
0:35 - 0:40You drive 19 long hours back home.
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0:42 - 0:43And when you get there,
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0:43 - 0:45the police are waiting on you.
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0:45 - 0:48They accuse you of committing a crime
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0:48 - 0:51that occurred while you
were away in Florida. -
0:52 - 0:55You tell anybody and everybody
who will listen, -
0:55 - 0:56"I didn't do it!
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0:56 - 0:58I couldn't have done it!
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0:59 - 1:01I was hanging out with Mickey
and Minnie and my kids!" -
1:03 - 1:04But no one believes you.
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1:05 - 1:07Ultimately, you're arrested,
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1:08 - 1:09you're tried,
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1:09 - 1:10you're convicted
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1:10 - 1:12and you are sentenced.
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1:12 - 1:15And you spend 25 years in jail,
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1:16 - 1:20until someone comes along and proves --
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1:22 - 1:23has the evidence to prove --
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1:23 - 1:27that you actually were in Florida
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1:27 - 1:28when this crime was committed.
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1:30 - 1:31So.
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1:32 - 1:33So, I'm a Harvard Law professor,
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1:34 - 1:38and the last several years,
I have worked on -
1:38 - 1:41winning the release of innocent people
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1:41 - 1:44who've been wrongfully convicted --
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1:44 - 1:46people like Jonathan Fleming,
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1:47 - 1:50who spent 24 years, eight months in jail
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1:50 - 1:54for a murder that was committed
in Brooklyn, New York, -
1:54 - 1:57while he was in Disney World
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1:57 - 1:58with his kids.
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1:59 - 2:00How do we know this?
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2:01 - 2:03Because when he was arrested,
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2:03 - 2:06among his property in his back pocket
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2:07 - 2:08was a receipt --
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2:09 - 2:11time-stamped receipt
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2:11 - 2:14that showed that he was in Disney World.
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2:14 - 2:17That receipt was put in the police file,
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2:17 - 2:20a copy of it was put
in the prosecutor's file, -
2:20 - 2:23and they never gave it
to his public defender. -
2:23 - 2:25In fact, nobody even knew it was there.
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2:25 - 2:28It just sat there for 20-some-odd years.
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2:29 - 2:32My team looked through the file,
and we found it, -
2:33 - 2:35did the rest of the investigation,
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2:35 - 2:37and figured out someone else
committed the crime. -
2:37 - 2:41Mr. Fleming was in Disney World,
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2:41 - 2:43and he is now released.
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2:43 - 2:45Let me give you a little bit of context.
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2:46 - 2:50So about three years ago, I got a call
from the Brooklyn District Attorney. -
2:50 - 2:54He asked whether I'd be interested
in designing a program -
2:54 - 2:56called a "conviction review unit."
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2:56 - 2:57So I said yes.
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2:57 - 3:02A conviction review unit is essentially
a unit in a prosecutor's office -
3:02 - 3:05where prosecutors look at their past cases
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3:05 - 3:08to determine whether or not
they made mistakes. -
3:08 - 3:10Over the course of the first year,
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3:11 - 3:14we found about 13 wrongful convictions,
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3:14 - 3:16people having been in jail for decades,
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3:16 - 3:18and we released all of them.
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3:18 - 3:21It was the most in New York history.
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3:21 - 3:22The program is still going on,
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3:22 - 3:25and they're up to 21 releases now --
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3:25 - 3:3021 people who spent
significant time behind bars. -
3:30 - 3:36So let me tell you about a couple other
of the men and women -
3:36 - 3:39that I interacted with
in the course of this program. -
3:39 - 3:41One name is Roger Logan.
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3:42 - 3:45Mr. Logan had been in jail 17 years
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3:45 - 3:47and wrote me a letter.
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3:47 - 3:49It was a simple letter; it basically said,
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3:49 - 3:52"Professor Sullivan, I'm innocent.
I've been framed. -
3:52 - 3:53Can you look at my case?"
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3:54 - 3:57At first blush, the case seemed
like it was open and shut, -
3:57 - 3:59but my research had shown
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4:00 - 4:03that single-witness identification cases
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4:03 - 4:04are prone to error.
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4:05 - 4:07It doesn't mean he was innocent,
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4:07 - 4:11it just means we ought to look
a little bit closer at those cases. -
4:11 - 4:12So we did.
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4:12 - 4:14And the facts were relatively simple.
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4:14 - 4:17The eyewitness said she heard a shot,
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4:17 - 4:20and she ran to the next building
and turned around and looked, -
4:20 - 4:22and there was Mr. Logan.
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4:22 - 4:27And he was tried and convicted
and in jail for 17-some-odd years. -
4:27 - 4:30But it was a single-witness case,
so we took a look at it. -
4:30 - 4:33I sent some people to the scene,
and there was an inconsistency. -
4:33 - 4:38And to put it politely:
-
4:38 - 4:42Usain Bolt couldn't have run
from where she said she was -
4:42 - 4:43to the other spot.
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4:43 - 4:44Right?
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4:44 - 4:46So we knew that wasn't true.
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4:47 - 4:49So it still didn't mean
that he didn't do it, -
4:49 - 4:53but we knew something was maybe fishy
about this witness. -
4:54 - 4:56So we looked through the file,
-
4:56 - 4:58a piece of paper in the file
had a number on it. -
4:58 - 5:01The number indicated
that this witness had a record. -
5:01 - 5:05We went back through 20 years
of non-digitized papers -
5:05 - 5:07to figure out what this record was about,
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5:07 - 5:10and it turned out -- it turned out --
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5:10 - 5:13the eyewitness was in jail
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5:14 - 5:15when she said she saw what she saw.
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5:18 - 5:20The man spent 17 years behind bars.
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5:21 - 5:26The last one is a case about two boys,
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5:26 - 5:28Willie Stuckey, David McCallum.
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5:29 - 5:31They were arrested at 15,
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5:31 - 5:36and their conviction was vacated
29 years later. -
5:37 - 5:39Now this was a case,
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5:39 - 5:41once again -- first blush,
it looked open and shut. -
5:42 - 5:43They had confessed.
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5:44 - 5:47But my research showed
that juvenile confessions -
5:47 - 5:48without a parent present
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5:48 - 5:49are prone to error.
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5:49 - 5:52The DNA cases proved this several times.
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5:52 - 5:53So we took a close look.
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5:54 - 5:56We looked at the confession,
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5:56 - 5:57and it turned out,
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5:57 - 5:59there was something in the confession
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5:59 - 6:01that those boys could not have known.
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6:01 - 6:03The only people who knew it
were police and prosecutors. -
6:03 - 6:06We knew what really happened;
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6:06 - 6:07someone told them to say this.
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6:07 - 6:09We don't exactly know who,
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6:09 - 6:11which person did,
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6:11 - 6:14but any rate, the confession was coerced,
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6:14 - 6:15we determined.
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6:15 - 6:17We then went back and did forensics
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6:17 - 6:19and did a fulsome investigation
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6:19 - 6:20and found that two other,
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6:20 - 6:23much older, different heights,
different hairstyle, -
6:23 - 6:26two other people committed the crime,
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6:26 - 6:27not these two boys.
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6:27 - 6:29I actually went to court that day,
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6:29 - 6:33for what's called a "vacatur hearing,"
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6:33 - 6:35where the conviction is thrown out.
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6:35 - 6:37I went to court; I wanted to see
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6:37 - 6:40Mr. McCallum walk out of there.
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6:40 - 6:41So I went to court,
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6:41 - 6:44and the judge said something
that judges say all the time, -
6:44 - 6:46but this took on a really special meaning.
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6:47 - 6:49He looked up after the arguments and said,
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6:49 - 6:51"Mr. McCallum,"
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6:51 - 6:53he said five beautiful words:
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6:54 - 6:57"You are free to go."
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6:59 - 7:00Can you imagine?
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7:00 - 7:03After just about 30 years:
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7:03 - 7:05"You are free to go."
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7:07 - 7:09And he walked out of that courtroom.
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7:10 - 7:13Unfortunately,
his codefendant, Mr. Stuckey, -
7:13 - 7:15didn't get the benefit of that.
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7:15 - 7:17You see, Mr. Stuckey died in prison
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7:18 - 7:20at 34 years old,
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7:20 - 7:24and his mother sat
at counsel table in his place. -
7:25 - 7:27I'll never forget this
the rest of my life. -
7:27 - 7:30She just rocked at the table, saying,
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7:30 - 7:32"I knew my baby didn't do this.
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7:32 - 7:35I knew my baby didn't do this."
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7:35 - 7:36And her baby didn't do this.
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7:37 - 7:38Two other guys did it.
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7:39 - 7:42If there's anything that we've learned,
anything that I've learned, -
7:42 - 7:46with this conviction integrity work,
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7:46 - 7:49it's that justice doesn't happen.
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7:50 - 7:54People make justice happen.
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7:56 - 8:00Justice is not a thing
that just descends from above -
8:00 - 8:02and makes everything right.
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8:03 - 8:07If it did, Mr. Stuckey
wouldn't have died in prison. -
8:08 - 8:09Justice is something
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8:10 - 8:13that people of goodwill make happen.
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8:14 - 8:17Justice is a decision.
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8:20 - 8:22Justice is a decision.
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8:23 - 8:26We make justice happen.
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8:26 - 8:28You know, the scary thing is,
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8:28 - 8:31in each of these three cases I described,
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8:31 - 8:33it would have only taken
just an extra minute -- -
8:34 - 8:35an extra minute --
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8:35 - 8:37for someone to look through the file
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8:37 - 8:39and find this receipt.
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8:40 - 8:43Just one -- to look through the file,
find the receipt, -
8:44 - 8:46give it to the public defender.
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8:47 - 8:49It would have taken someone just a minute
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8:49 - 8:54to look at the video confession
and say, "That cannot be." -
8:55 - 8:56Just a minute.
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8:58 - 9:01And perhaps Mr. Stuckey
would be alive today. -
9:01 - 9:05It reminds me of one of my favorite poems.
-
9:05 - 9:09It's a poem that Benjamin Elijah Mays
would always recite, -
9:09 - 9:11and he called it "God's Minute."
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9:11 - 9:12And it goes something like this:
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9:12 - 9:15"I have only just a minute,
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9:15 - 9:17only 60 seconds in it,
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9:17 - 9:19forced upon me, can't refuse it,
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9:19 - 9:21didn't seek it, didn't choose it.
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9:21 - 9:23But it's up to me to use it.
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9:23 - 9:26I must suffer if I lose it,
give account if I abuse it. -
9:27 - 9:29Just a tiny little minute,
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9:30 - 9:33but eternity is in it."
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9:34 - 9:35If I were to charge
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9:35 - 9:37each and every one of us,
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9:38 - 9:40I would want to say something like,
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9:42 - 9:43"Every day,
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9:44 - 9:45every day,
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9:46 - 9:48take just one extra minute
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9:50 - 9:51and do some justice.
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9:53 - 9:54You don't have to --
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9:54 - 9:58I mean, some people spend
their careers and their lives, -
9:58 - 10:00like public defenders,
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10:00 - 10:01doing justice every day.
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10:02 - 10:05But in your professional lives,
whatever you do, -
10:05 - 10:06take time out
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10:06 - 10:07to just
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10:09 - 10:10do some justice.
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10:10 - 10:12Make a colleague feel better.
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10:12 - 10:15If you hear something that's sexist,
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10:15 - 10:18don't laugh, speak up.
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10:18 - 10:21If someone is down, lift them up,
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10:21 - 10:23one extra minute each day,
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10:24 - 10:27and it'll be a great, great place.
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10:27 - 10:28I want to show you something.
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10:30 - 10:33Now, above me is a picture
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10:33 - 10:34of David McCallum.
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10:35 - 10:38This is the day
he was released from prison. -
10:38 - 10:41After 30 years, he got to hug a niece
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10:41 - 10:44he had never been able to touch before.
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10:45 - 10:47And I asked him then,
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10:48 - 10:50I said, "What's the first thing
you want to do?" -
10:50 - 10:53And he said, "I just want
to walk on the sidewalk -
10:53 - 10:55without anybody telling me where to go."
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10:55 - 10:57Wasn't bitter,
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10:57 - 10:59just wanted to walk on the sidewalk.
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11:00 - 11:03I spoke to Mr. McCallum
about two weeks ago. -
11:03 - 11:05I went to New York.
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11:05 - 11:07It was on the two-year anniversary
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11:07 - 11:09of his release.
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11:09 - 11:11And we talked,
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11:11 - 11:13we laughed, we hugged, we cried.
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11:14 - 11:16And he's doing quite well.
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11:16 - 11:20And one of the things he said
when we met with him -
11:20 - 11:23is that he now has dedicated his life
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11:23 - 11:25and his career
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11:25 - 11:29to ensuring that nobody else
is locked up unjustly. -
11:30 - 11:32Justice, my friends,
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11:34 - 11:35is a decision.
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11:36 - 11:37Thank you very much.
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11:37 - 11:41(Applause)
- Title:
- How I help free innocent people from prison
- Speaker:
- Ronald Sullivan
- Description:
-
Harvard Law professor Ronald Sullivan fights to free wrongfully convicted people from jail -- in fact, he has freed some 6,000 innocent people over the course of his career. He shares heartbreaking stories of how (and why) people end up being put in jail for something they didn't do, and the consequences in their lives and the lives of others. Watch this essential talk about the duty we all have to make the world a bit more fair every day, however we can.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 11:54
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for How I help free innocent people from prison | ||
Brian Greene approved English subtitles for How I help free innocent people from prison | ||
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for How I help free innocent people from prison | ||
Camille Martínez accepted English subtitles for How I help free innocent people from prison | ||
Camille Martínez edited English subtitles for How I help free innocent people from prison | ||
Camille Martínez edited English subtitles for How I help free innocent people from prison | ||
Joseph Geni edited English subtitles for How I help free innocent people from prison |