WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:15.085 (Sound off till 0:39, actual session starts at 2:04) 00:00:56.530 --> 00:01:08.469 (Indistinct conversations) 00:01:17.014 --> 00:01:18.994 (Moderator) So we've got one hour and a quarter. 00:01:19.004 --> 00:01:31.432 (confused voices) 00:01:31.432 --> 00:01:34.146 How do we know when these things are going to be turned on? 00:01:34.146 --> 00:01:57.543 (confused voices) 00:01:57.543 --> 00:02:01.802 What? OK? Right. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:03.548 --> 00:02:07.367 (Moderator) Ladies and Genltemen, can I ask everyone 00:02:07.367 --> 00:02:09.281 to take their seats, please? 00:02:09.912 --> 00:02:13.119 We're about to begin, so if you're visiting the bar, 00:02:13.119 --> 00:02:18.314 can you charge your glasses and return to your seats, and then we'll begin. 00:02:18.314 --> 00:02:20.921 We've got an hour and a quarter for this debate. 00:02:30.575 --> 00:02:36.631 OK, can I -- Welcome everybody to the Online Educa OEB debate. 00:02:38.508 --> 00:02:42.718 I'm not sure what number this is in the series of debates that we've had, 00:02:42.718 --> 00:02:44.743 I think it may be getting up to our 10th. 00:02:44.743 --> 00:02:49.729 What I can tell you is that in the time that we've been having these debates 00:02:49.729 --> 00:02:53.872 and that I've been chairing them, my eyesight has now gone so bad 00:02:53.872 --> 00:02:57.846 that I can't possibly read any notes that I have without using glasses, so 00:02:58.935 --> 00:03:02.448 I think we must be on at least our 10th. 00:03:02.454 --> 00:03:07.236 What I can also tell you is that Online Educa itself, OEB, 00:03:07.669 --> 00:03:11.210 this year is celebrating its 21st anniversary. 00:03:11.513 --> 00:03:14.550 So I think that perhaps deserves a round of applause. 00:03:14.550 --> 00:03:22.959 So happy birthday to Online Educa -- (Applause) -- this fantastic conference. 00:03:22.959 --> 00:03:30.983 And 21 years ago was a very difficult -- very different world indeed, 00:03:30.983 --> 00:03:35.852 when one thinks about the scale and scope of change that there -- 00:03:35.852 --> 00:03:39.762 that has taken place in the last 21 years. 00:03:40.499 --> 00:03:50.874 One statistic I was reading recently was that in the UK, in 1994, 21 years ago, 00:03:51.344 --> 00:03:57.120 there were only 67 mobile phones per 1000 people. 00:03:57.697 --> 00:04:02.114 But only ten years later, in 2004, 00:04:02.114 --> 00:04:05.527 there were more mobiles in the UK than people. 00:04:05.842 --> 00:04:10.067 And that pattern of spread of mobile communications alone 00:04:10.336 --> 00:04:15.412 has spread across the world and in Africa, for instance, 00:04:15.412 --> 00:04:17.765 those of you who have been to Elearning Africa will have heard about 00:04:17.765 --> 00:04:22.414 the spread of mobile communications across the African continent. 00:04:22.414 --> 00:04:26.092 So in terms of the scale of technological change, 00:04:26.092 --> 00:04:28.416 and the spread of that change across the world, 00:04:28.416 --> 00:04:33.383 the change in that short period of time, in these past 21 years alone, 00:04:33.383 --> 00:04:35.951 has been enormous, and we heard about 00:04:35.951 --> 00:04:40.399 the scale of it in the opening plenary session this morning. 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:45.465 We live in a world that is globalized, interconnected, hyperlinked 00:04:45.465 --> 00:04:51.621 and that scale of change that we're experiencing and have experienced 00:04:51.621 --> 00:04:56.297 in the last 21 years, is going to gather pace and continue. 00:04:56.297 --> 00:05:02.551 And all that is going to create a huge challenge for education and training, 00:05:02.551 --> 00:05:04.966 which is going to be at the heart 00:05:04.966 --> 00:05:09.635 of dealing with both the positive and negative aspects of that change. 00:05:09.635 --> 00:05:14.722 And that's why the motion that we're dealing with today, in this debate, 00:05:14.722 --> 00:05:20.316 is so important, and why the whole subject of giving young people the skills 00:05:20.316 --> 00:05:23.594 that they need to cope with the challenges of this new world 00:05:23.594 --> 00:05:30.834 that we all are going to -- that we are creating, is so important. 00:05:31.514 --> 00:05:34.957 We've got four speakers, four panel speakers 00:05:34.957 --> 00:05:37.901 to open the debate this evening 00:05:37.901 --> 00:05:41.386 and I'm going to ask each of them to speak for 10 minutes, 00:05:42.088 --> 00:05:43.313 and then I'm going to -- 00:05:43.903 --> 00:05:47.641 -- two of them will speak for the motion, obviously,and two against -- 00:05:47.641 --> 00:05:51.749 then I will throw open the debate to all of you, 00:05:52.136 --> 00:05:55.752 but if you want to intervene whilst they are speaking, 00:05:55.752 --> 00:05:58.995 because we're having a parliamentary-style debate, 00:05:59.672 --> 00:06:01.723 then you can try to intervene on them 00:06:01.723 --> 00:06:04.969 and if they want to take your intervention, 00:06:04.969 --> 00:06:07.507 then they can do so, but it will be entirely up to you. 00:06:07.507 --> 00:06:12.386 And if they don't, then you can draw whatever conclusions you want from that. 00:06:13.283 --> 00:06:16.054 But I want to ensure that we keep the flow going, 00:06:16.054 --> 00:06:20.078 so I'm not going to let you bully them but I'm going to allow you, 00:06:20.078 --> 00:06:21.655 if you want to make a particular point, 00:06:21.655 --> 00:06:24.223 or if you want to make a short intervention, to do so. 00:06:24.223 --> 00:06:28.953 Then after they've spoken, we'll throw open the debate to the floor 00:06:28.953 --> 00:06:31.683 and you can make your contribution, 00:06:31.683 --> 00:06:34.282 but do please realize that time is of the essence, 00:06:34.282 --> 00:06:37.993 so please try to keep it short and to the point, succinct. 00:06:37.993 --> 00:06:41.535 This is the kind of debate equivalent of texting. 00:06:41.535 --> 00:06:44.379 So, no long rambling contributions, 00:06:44.379 --> 00:06:46.376 because I will cut you off if you try to do that. 00:06:46.376 --> 00:06:48.635 So, very short contributions, please. 00:06:48.875 --> 00:06:53.146 And then I'll ask each of our -- I'll ask one speaker from each side 00:06:53.146 --> 00:06:59.647 to sum up, and then we will take a vote, and we'll do that by a show of hands. 00:07:00.486 --> 00:07:04.496 And I've also made it clear to all the speakers that they may 00:07:04.496 --> 00:07:09.258 say things that they don't necessarily want to be held to in the future, 00:07:09.258 --> 00:07:10.802 so I hope that you will understand that, 00:07:10.802 --> 00:07:15.211 that this is an opportunity for us to explore some of the issues, 00:07:15.211 --> 00:07:17.643 but don't take it all too seriously, 00:07:17.643 --> 00:07:21.560 and don't come and accuse people of saying things that you would -- 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:25.164 that they might not necessarily always want to be held to. 00:07:25.164 --> 00:07:31.030 With that in mind, I'm going to ask our first speaker, who is Jo Swinson. 00:07:31.030 --> 00:07:37.269 Jo Swinson, who is the former Minister for business, innovation and skills 00:07:37.269 --> 00:07:42.737 in the UK's coalition government of 2010 to 2015, 00:07:42.737 --> 00:07:45.111 to speak first for the motion. 00:07:45.468 --> 00:07:53.130 And Jo, since leaving Parliament, has begun a new career 00:07:53.130 --> 00:07:57.795 and is involved in an award within a data intelligence company 00:07:57.795 --> 00:08:00.310 called Clear Returns 00:08:00.310 --> 00:08:07.511 and she is an expert on the challenges and opportunities of the digital age. 00:08:07.511 --> 00:08:09.077 So, over to you, Jo. NOTE Paragraph 00:08:09.504 --> 00:08:12.324 (Jo Swinson) Thank you very much indeed, Harold. 00:08:12.329 --> 00:08:18.227 And I'm absolutely delighted to be here in Berlin at OEB. 00:08:18.227 --> 00:08:22.878 A bit of a first, actually, the first technology-related conference 00:08:22.878 --> 00:08:26.434 that I've been to where there is a queue in the ladies' loos! 00:08:26.865 --> 00:08:31.841 I have to say I was particularly pleased by that, not only as a feminist, 00:08:31.841 --> 00:08:35.515 but also as a Brit who appreciates the art of queuing. 00:08:35.515 --> 00:08:37.486 So it was good on two fronts. 00:08:38.507 --> 00:08:44.075 So, "This house believes that 21st century skills aren't being taught, 00:08:44.075 --> 00:08:47.786 "and they should be." is the motion that I want to convince you 00:08:47.786 --> 00:08:49.967 to support this evening. 00:08:50.469 --> 00:08:54.761 We absolutely need to be equipping our young people, 00:08:54.761 --> 00:08:58.439 and indeed, people at every stage of their lives, 00:08:58.439 --> 00:09:02.625 with the skills that they need for the 21st century. 00:09:02.625 --> 00:09:05.836 And our education systems, and our wider society, 00:09:05.836 --> 00:09:08.082 have an important role to play in this. 00:09:08.629 --> 00:09:13.333 But I will put it to you, this evening, that when it comes to technical skills, 00:09:13.333 --> 00:09:15.821 when it comes to social skills, and vitally, 00:09:15.821 --> 00:09:19.927 when it comes to capacity to embrace change, 00:09:19.927 --> 00:09:24.007 we are not yet rising to that challenge sufficiently. 00:09:25.064 --> 00:09:29.912 There are very specific skills, there are gaps in science and technology 00:09:29.918 --> 00:09:31.990 that are not being properly filled. 00:09:32.870 --> 00:09:36.054 These shortages are causing significant problems 00:09:36.054 --> 00:09:38.206 for businesses, for employers. 00:09:38.715 --> 00:09:43.755 Half of engineering companies say that they have delayed taking forward 00:09:43.755 --> 00:09:47.751 new products or services, because they have vacancies 00:09:47.751 --> 00:09:52.559 that are so hard to fill, because the skills are not there to recruit. 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:58.348 Digital start-ups are often in real need of software developers 00:09:58.348 --> 00:10:00.444 that they cannot find sufficiently. 00:10:00.444 --> 00:10:05.565 And companies of all sizes, grappling with cybersecurity challenges 00:10:05.565 --> 00:10:10.750 struggle to have the skills that they need to take on those important issues. 00:10:11.347 --> 00:10:16.545 As Harold mentioned, I'm now a director of a company called Clear Returns. 00:10:16.545 --> 00:10:21.926 It's been going for about three years, based in Glasgow, and uses data analytics 00:10:21.926 --> 00:10:27.020 to help retailers understand the problems they have with product returns 00:10:27.020 --> 00:10:30.369 and therefore successfully cutting the costs for retailers, 00:10:30.369 --> 00:10:33.034 and resulting in better customer satisfaction. 00:10:33.383 --> 00:10:39.275 But in our technology team of 17 people, there are 12 different nationalities 00:10:39.275 --> 00:10:45.640 and not one of those people went through the school education system in the UK, 00:10:45.640 --> 00:10:49.235 because the skills are not up to scratch. 00:10:49.836 --> 00:10:53.590 Now, there have been some improvements and as to 2014, 00:10:53.590 --> 00:10:58.040 computer science has been introduced into the curriculum in the UK, 00:10:58.040 --> 00:11:00.393 but that is not the end of the matter, 00:11:00.393 --> 00:11:05.916 because 11% of computer science graduates are unemployed. 00:11:06.276 --> 00:11:10.481 In fact, that's one of the highest unemployment rates 00:11:10.481 --> 00:11:12.039 for any subject discipline, 00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:16.801 at a time when we have a huge shortage of these very skills. 00:11:16.801 --> 00:11:20.218 Something is going very wrong when that is the case. 00:11:20.834 --> 00:11:23.997 And this is not just about teaching people to code. 00:11:24.410 --> 00:11:27.114 Fashionable though that undoubtedly is at the moment 00:11:27.114 --> 00:11:31.116 and it is necessary that we do have people who can code. 00:11:31.116 --> 00:11:34.315 But it's not some kind of silver bullet on its own. 00:11:34.855 --> 00:11:39.039 Actually, it's the building blocks that we need to be putting in place, 00:11:39.338 --> 00:11:42.806 the things that lie before you get to the point of coding, 00:11:42.806 --> 00:11:46.821 the logic, the basic maths, enhancing those skills, 00:11:46.821 --> 00:11:49.911 so that people can put those building blocks together 00:11:49.911 --> 00:11:55.238 and create an argument or a train of thought or a mathematical proof, 00:11:55.537 --> 00:12:00.330 or indeed, a piece of code that will instruct a machine to do something. 00:12:00.641 --> 00:12:04.673 Yet our maths skills are also going backwards. 00:12:04.673 --> 00:12:08.233 A King's College, London, study found that compared to the 1970's 00:12:08.233 --> 00:12:13.562 young people today are significantly less well equipped in the field of mathematics. 00:12:14.110 --> 00:12:17.581 And it's also worth pointing out that we are missing out, 00:12:17.581 --> 00:12:22.434 when it comes to teaching these skills on almost half of the population. 00:12:23.024 --> 00:12:27.753 Only one in five A-level physics students is a girl. 00:12:27.753 --> 00:12:31.717 When it comes to computer science, that figure drops to 1 in 10. 00:12:32.233 --> 00:12:34.680 Now, it's wonderful to be at a technology conference 00:12:34.680 --> 00:12:36.116 where there is a queue in the ladies' loos, 00:12:36.116 --> 00:12:40.230 but even at this conference, if you have a look at the speakers' brochure, 00:12:40.230 --> 00:12:44.674 only 8 of the 35 main speakers are women, so where are the women? 00:12:44.674 --> 00:12:47.648 We are missing out on that important talent 00:12:47.648 --> 00:12:51.184 who are not then getting the skills that we need for the 21st century 00:12:51.184 --> 00:12:53.521 to enable all of our economies to flourish. 00:12:54.401 --> 00:12:58.478 We're also not doing well enough at the social skills 00:12:58.478 --> 00:13:01.326 which have always been imported -- important, 00:13:01.326 --> 00:13:04.869 and I would argue, are even more so in the context of the 21st century. 00:13:05.472 --> 00:13:10.225 Employers have long complained that they get coming into the work place 00:13:10.225 --> 00:13:12.189 are not yet ready for work. 00:13:12.750 --> 00:13:15.723 I have to say there is that thing I've observed, 00:13:15.723 --> 00:13:18.539 when new graduates starting out in the work place 00:13:18.539 --> 00:13:21.095 seem to be allergic to using the telephone 00:13:21.095 --> 00:13:23.754 for the purpose it was originally designed for. 00:13:24.404 --> 00:13:28.853 I've lost count of the number of times when, speaking to a member of staff 00:13:28.853 --> 00:13:31.863 about the particular project that they are trying to make happen, 00:13:31.863 --> 00:13:33.846 and it seems sort of stuck, and I say: 00:13:33.846 --> 00:13:36.549 "And what happened when you asked that person about it?" 00:13:36.876 --> 00:13:39.594 "Oh, I sent them an email and they didn't get back to me." 00:13:40.069 --> 00:13:43.996 You know, for all the wonders that technology can undoubtedly do 00:13:43.996 --> 00:13:48.012 in helping us in our working life, when you want to get people to do something, 00:13:48.012 --> 00:13:54.009 an email is very easy to ignore, and it is much harder to just put to one side 00:13:54.009 --> 00:13:58.061 a face-to-face person or contact, or on the telephone. 00:13:58.619 --> 00:14:03.741 And relationships are absolutely critical to 21st century work places and skills: 00:14:03.741 --> 00:14:08.036 getting things done, collaborating in teams, motivating others. 00:14:08.036 --> 00:14:12.362 Yet when we assess children and young people in the education system, 00:14:12.362 --> 00:14:15.764 it is genuinely done on a pure individual basis, 00:14:15.764 --> 00:14:19.800 not looking at how they are actually operating within a group setting. 00:14:20.227 --> 00:14:24.300 And when it comes to skills in terms of relationships, 00:14:24.300 --> 00:14:28.603 something like personal, social and health education, which I would argue, 00:14:28.603 --> 00:14:33.490 is absolutely essential to help young people learn to navigate relationships, 00:14:33.490 --> 00:14:36.711 and important issues like consent when it comes to sex, 00:14:36.711 --> 00:14:40.195 it's not even compulsory in the UK curriculum. 00:14:40.675 --> 00:14:43.480 In a world where ultimation is increasing, 00:14:43.942 --> 00:14:47.270 where jobs that we've already seen through the Industrial Revolution, 00:14:47.270 --> 00:14:49.441 that manual jobs have been replaced by machines, 00:14:49.441 --> 00:14:54.257 that with the next stage of technological advancement, many, many more, 00:14:54.257 --> 00:14:57.351 in things like accountancy and professional services, 00:14:57.351 --> 00:15:00.396 are also going to be replaced by algorithms, 00:15:00.880 --> 00:15:05.838 the human social relationship skills are going to be in even more demand 00:15:05.838 --> 00:15:08.962 and therefore deserve much more attention. 00:15:09.392 --> 00:15:15.115 And my final point is that we have not done enough to prepare people 00:15:15.115 --> 00:15:17.069 for the world of change. 00:15:17.750 --> 00:15:21.993 A little while ago, I spoke at a School Award ceremony to 12-year olds 00:15:21.993 --> 00:15:24.996 And I was to explain to them how the world had changed 00:15:24.996 --> 00:15:26.558 since I was there age. 00:15:27.290 --> 00:15:33.611 And one of the examples I used was the process of taking a photograph. 00:15:34.351 --> 00:15:39.926 And I described how, when I was 12, you would have a thing called a camera 00:15:39.926 --> 00:15:43.550 that was all that it did, it was just for taking photographs, 00:15:44.126 --> 00:15:46.791 you would have to get a piece of film, physically, 00:15:46.791 --> 00:15:50.020 to load it into the camera machine, you'd had to do that pretty carefully, 00:15:50.020 --> 00:15:53.590 because you didn't want to expose the film and it was quite a fiddly process. 00:15:54.212 --> 00:15:57.084 You wouldn't know whether the photos you were taking were any good. 00:15:58.810 --> 00:16:02.027 You would have to take at least 24, or sometimes 36, 00:16:02.027 --> 00:16:05.277 depending on which particular piece of film you put into your camera, 00:16:05.277 --> 00:16:09.959 before you would then take it along to a pharmacist's or a chemist's shop, 00:16:10.355 --> 00:16:14.391 pay some money and then go and do something else for a few days, 00:16:14.391 --> 00:16:16.439 at which point you could come back and be presented 00:16:16.439 --> 00:16:18.193 with your little envelope of photographs, 00:16:18.193 --> 00:16:20.343 and see if any of them had turned out OK. 00:16:20.807 --> 00:16:22.925 And I was counting on these 12-year olds looked at me (check) 00:16:22.925 --> 00:16:25.446 like I might well be lying to the,: this is how it worked, 00:16:26.387 --> 00:16:29.235 because of course these days, you know, within a matter of seconds, 00:16:29.235 --> 00:16:31.196 you can take dozens of selfies in your phone, 00:16:31.196 --> 00:16:33.757 apply however many Instagram filters you like, 00:16:33.757 --> 00:16:38.308 and share it with the entire world, just without leaving the spot. 00:16:38.795 --> 00:16:42.840 The pace of change is accelerating hugely. 00:16:43.358 --> 00:16:49.751 Here in 2015, for us to consider what even are 21st century skills, 00:16:50.103 --> 00:16:56.487 is like going back to 1915 and trying to imagine the space race, nuclear power, 00:16:56.487 --> 00:17:00.722 the internet, or the kind of social change going from a situation 00:17:00.722 --> 00:17:02.727 where women didn't even have the vote, 00:17:02.727 --> 00:17:05.582 to electing a woman as Prime Minister in the UK, 00:17:05.582 --> 00:17:08.341 or the change with gay rights, 00:17:08.341 --> 00:17:11.929 or the ending of racial segregation in the United States. 00:17:12.238 --> 00:17:16.247 We can't even conceive of all that the 21st century is going to bring. 00:17:16.516 --> 00:17:20.640 And so, more than anything, with this huge pace of increasing knowledge, 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:24.056 more than anything, what we need to do is equip people 00:17:24.056 --> 00:17:28.003 to cope with and thrive on change and uncertainty. 00:17:28.582 --> 00:17:33.039 And instead, we have bunches of kids being processed through the education system 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:36.771 that doesn't look that different to several decades ago. 00:17:37.029 --> 00:17:41.168 So we really do have a problem here, in terms of the skills 00:17:41.168 --> 00:17:45.117 that we are teaching and more importantly, not teaching well enough. 00:17:45.870 --> 00:17:49.130 Whether it's technical skills, whether it's those social skills 00:17:49.130 --> 00:17:53.035 or whether it's the vitally important ability to be resilient, 00:17:53.035 --> 00:17:55.155 to recover from change and setbacks, 00:17:55.155 --> 00:17:59.355 and to apply yourself in a new way to a new set of challenges and horizons. 00:17:59.355 --> 00:18:01.841 These are the things we must be focusing on, 00:18:01.841 --> 00:18:04.309 and we aren't yet rising to that challenge. 00:18:04.619 --> 00:18:05.840 Support the motion! NOTE Paragraph 00:18:05.840 --> 00:18:15.626 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:18:16.081 --> 00:18:18.406 (Moderator) OK, thank you very much for that, Jo. 00:18:19.052 --> 00:18:24.908 Our next speaker, who is going to speak against the motion, is Allan Päll, 00:18:25.297 --> 00:18:28.852 who is the Secretary General of the European Youth Forum, 00:18:28.852 --> 00:18:33.041 which is the representative body for youth organisations in Europe 00:18:33.041 --> 00:18:35.400 and he is an advocate for youth's rights. 00:18:35.994 --> 00:18:41.296 He lead student unions in Estonia and at the European level, and has advocated 00:18:41.296 --> 00:18:46.055 for students' voices to be included in educational policy. Allan, up to you: NOTE Paragraph 00:18:46.055 --> 00:18:48.464 (Allan Päll) All right, thank you very much, chair. 00:18:48.464 --> 00:18:53.489 I would like to very much support many of the claims made by our opposition. 00:18:53.489 --> 00:18:58.041 However, when it comes to the question and when it comes to this specific motion, 00:18:58.041 --> 00:19:03.378 this house does not believe that 21st century skills aren't being taught, 00:19:03.378 --> 00:19:06.958 because, well, let me put it very bluntly and very simply: 00:19:06.958 --> 00:19:13.884 the whole notion of what are 21st century skills is often just a bunch of nonsense, 00:19:13.884 --> 00:19:16.108 if I would sum it up very briefly. 00:19:16.108 --> 00:19:18.675 But let me go into it a bit more. 00:19:18.675 --> 00:19:22.837 There are many definitions of what these skills could be 00:19:22.837 --> 00:19:28.347 and I fully agree that they do include everything mentioned by the opposition. 00:19:28.755 --> 00:19:32.057 However, there are many other ways of looking at it. 00:19:32.057 --> 00:19:35.846 So if we are to say whether these are being taught or not, 00:19:35.846 --> 00:19:41.083 even if we have a problem of the very definition of what these skills are, 00:19:41.083 --> 00:19:45.968 how can we say that they are not being taught so determinedly? 00:19:46.913 --> 00:19:52.993 Some of the elements that can be mentioned as 21st century skills 00:19:52.993 --> 00:19:58.632 are simple things, as critical thinking, problem-solving, reasoning, analysis, 00:19:58.632 --> 00:20:04.394 research skills, creativity, curiosity, perseverance, self-direction 00:20:04.394 --> 00:20:07.850 oral and written communication, leadership, 00:20:07.850 --> 00:20:13.008 information and communication technology, social justice, literacy, 00:20:13.008 --> 00:20:20.833 civic, ethical behavior, global awareness: the list goes on and on and on. 00:20:20.833 --> 00:20:26.846 So, indeed, many of those things, perhaps, are not being taught enough, 00:20:26.846 --> 00:20:30.432 or specifically enough, in our educational systems. 00:20:30.432 --> 00:20:35.163 But that doesn't mean that this is not happening. 00:20:35.166 --> 00:20:37.079 Let me ask you one simple question: 00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:41.822 If you believe that we don't acquire many of these skills 00:20:41.822 --> 00:20:46.710 in our educational environment, be it in a formal setting 00:20:46.710 --> 00:20:51.190 or a socializing moment in your school or at university, 00:20:51.190 --> 00:20:58.523 would we actually witness the pace of change in society that we are seeing? 00:20:58.523 --> 00:21:02.150 Almost all of us have gone through the educational system. 00:21:02.150 --> 00:21:07.271 So, we must get a lot of those skills also through that. 00:21:07.503 --> 00:21:11.507 I do agree, though, that there is something to be said about 00:21:11.507 --> 00:21:17.118 the question of how specific are we when we look at those skills. 00:21:17.118 --> 00:21:20.164 Because that is true that most curricula -- 00:21:20.534 --> 00:21:26.311 education is very much compartmentalized into very specific subject areas 00:21:26.311 --> 00:21:30.659 and we're seeing an increasing trend of those subject areas becoming 00:21:30.659 --> 00:21:32.762 more and more specific. 00:21:32.762 --> 00:21:38.076 And thus indeed, there is perhaps not enough emphasis on looking at, 00:21:38.076 --> 00:21:43.764 or thinking really about are we acquiring all those sets of skills 00:21:43.764 --> 00:21:49.279 that are important for our socialization, etc., our technical skills as well, 00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:51.421 as mentioned by the opposition. 00:21:51.985 --> 00:21:55.397 One of the things that I would like to highlight is that 00:21:55.397 --> 00:21:59.911 the schools and universities, and vocational education and training 00:21:59.911 --> 00:22:04.076 is not only about the formal learning outcomes 00:22:04.076 --> 00:22:07.922 that we are beginning to measure more and more. 00:22:07.922 --> 00:22:14.143 It is also about the social environment at that very school or university 00:22:14.143 --> 00:22:17.671 that determines a lot of what education gives us. 00:22:18.274 --> 00:22:22.521 In terms of specific skills that were mentioned by opposition 00:22:22.521 --> 00:22:28.678 and the lack of those skills, there are many variables perhaps to look at. 00:22:28.678 --> 00:22:32.486 Yes indeed, we are missing out on engineers, 00:22:32.486 --> 00:22:39.541 we are missing out on also staff in medical sciences, in care. 00:22:39.541 --> 00:22:41.549 We would need indeed many more people 00:22:41.549 --> 00:22:46.036 to have those qualifications, perhaps, indeed. 00:22:46.036 --> 00:22:49.831 But there is also a question of what is education for 00:22:49.831 --> 00:22:53.668 and what are the requirements on the labor market. 00:22:53.668 --> 00:22:56.916 And those two things, although they interact, 00:22:56.916 --> 00:22:59.181 they move at different paces. 00:22:59.181 --> 00:23:06.257 So sometimes, we start to put blame very easily on the education system 00:23:06.257 --> 00:23:10.200 for not delivering specific skills when, for example, 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:12.560 the structure of our education 00:23:12.560 --> 00:23:15.682 -- sorry, the structure of our economy has changed. 00:23:15.941 --> 00:23:20.286 And I think here, it's an important remark that we need to look at 00:23:20.286 --> 00:23:23.913 different experiences of different countries. 00:23:24.275 --> 00:23:27.645 And you see countries where unemployment levels, 00:23:27.645 --> 00:23:31.039 even throughout the financial economic crises, 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:35.076 were record low, such as in Germany and Austria. 00:23:35.076 --> 00:23:37.925 But if you look at youth unemployment figures, 00:23:37.925 --> 00:23:42.386 youth unemployment also among highly educated young people, 00:23:42.386 --> 00:23:48.235 in different areas, like Spain or Greece, all around the Mediterranean, 00:23:48.235 --> 00:23:50.710 they've been staggeringly high. 00:23:50.710 --> 00:23:54.136 And it's not because the education systems failed, 00:23:54.136 --> 00:23:58.196 it's because the macro-economic systems failed them there, 00:23:58.196 --> 00:24:02.359 in terms of not having enough job creation for all those skills. 00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:07.844 And of course, there is something to be said that when we train people 00:24:07.844 --> 00:24:10.996 and when we train minds to think critically, 00:24:10.996 --> 00:24:16.038 to come up with new and innovative ideas, we also change the world through that. 00:24:16.038 --> 00:24:19.200 So, we need to understand that interaction. 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:24.273 but certainly, when we look at 21st century skills, well, 00:24:24.273 --> 00:24:28.914 if we are to define them with this broad set of lists that I noted, 00:24:28.914 --> 00:24:33.975 we certainly are gaining those skills, but perhaps, not specifically 00:24:33.975 --> 00:24:37.045 and not enough: that, we could agree. 00:24:37.990 --> 00:24:40.885 When it comes to preparedness for change, 00:24:40.885 --> 00:24:46.036 when are we ever prepared for the change to come, one might wonder. 00:24:46.696 --> 00:24:51.043 Indeed, things, technologically, are changing very fast. 00:24:51.043 --> 00:24:55.706 And maybe our educational systems are not embracing that technology 00:24:55.706 --> 00:24:58.106 at the same pace. 00:24:58.106 --> 00:25:01.631 But that doesn't mean that if we would embrace 00:25:01.631 --> 00:25:06.562 the use of that technology very quickly, that it would enhance immediately 00:25:06.562 --> 00:25:10.560 the skills that we can describe as 21st century skills, 00:25:10.560 --> 00:25:13.683 such as, for example, critical thinking. 00:25:13.683 --> 00:25:15.517 There are many advocates that say 00:25:15.517 --> 00:25:19.640 that we need to replace subject matter teaching completely 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:22.469 with horizontal level approaches. 00:25:22.469 --> 00:25:23.705 But that doesn't work. 00:25:23.705 --> 00:25:28.479 If we don't know the facts, how do we know that we are on the right path 00:25:28.479 --> 00:25:33.289 with our decisions, how can we know what really happened in the past, 00:25:33.289 --> 00:25:36.648 and not, how can we verify what is true? 00:25:36.648 --> 00:25:41.481 So when we look at the skills, we need to look at the evidences 00:25:41.481 --> 00:25:45.792 in terms of teaching preparedness and pedagogy. 00:25:45.792 --> 00:25:49.376 And yes, we agree: there is a lot to be done there 00:25:49.376 --> 00:25:55.527 in terms of measuring those essential skills of socialization and communication, 00:25:55.527 --> 00:26:00.133 building relationships, and it is true that around, it's estimated, 00:26:00.133 --> 00:26:03.993 around 50% of jobs in the service sector 00:26:03.993 --> 00:26:09.275 are about to disappear in the next 20 years and transform, hopefully, 00:26:09.275 --> 00:26:11.476 into something completely new. 00:26:11.476 --> 00:26:19.198 Finally, indeed, those skills, we can all agree, 00:26:19.198 --> 00:26:20.434 we need those skills. 00:26:21.074 --> 00:26:24.849 But there is an important element of young people, 00:26:24.849 --> 00:26:28.067 and this is a study that we have done in the European Youth Forum, 00:26:28.067 --> 00:26:34.725 that they gain a lot of those skills also outside, in non-formal education settings. 00:26:34.725 --> 00:26:39.162 And the key here is to see if we can bring those experiences 00:26:39.162 --> 00:26:42.382 that young people gain from youth organizations, activism, 00:26:42.382 --> 00:26:47.061 into the formal education setting, and thus make it much more open 00:26:47.061 --> 00:26:53.790 to recognizing those prior experiences as well, to overcome this shortage. 00:26:53.790 --> 00:26:54.909 Thank you very much. NOTE Paragraph 00:26:54.909 --> 00:27:02.481 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:27:02.481 --> 00:27:04.074 (Moderator) Thank you very much, Allan. 00:27:04.074 --> 00:27:09.186 Our next speaker who is going to speak for the motion is Pedro De Bruyckere 00:27:10.434 --> 00:27:13.593 who is an educational scientist 00:27:13.593 --> 00:27:17.806 and he has worked in Ghent in Belgium since 2001. 00:27:17.806 --> 00:27:23.932 He co-wrote two books which debunk popular myths on generation Y 00:27:23.932 --> 00:27:25.501 and generation Z, 00:27:25.501 --> 00:27:30.513 and the latest one was entitled "I was 10 in 2015". Pedro: NOTE Paragraph 00:27:31.483 --> 00:27:34.230 (Pedro De Bruyckere) OK. Good evening. 00:27:34.230 --> 00:27:38.397 I'm a teacher, I'm a teacher trainer, so I'm not used to standing still. 00:27:38.397 --> 00:27:41.796 So if you don't mind, I will move. 00:27:42.474 --> 00:27:46.220 Allan, thank you very much for making my point. 00:27:46.810 --> 00:27:50.846 I have to explain: I have to agree, I've written a book about it, 00:27:50.846 --> 00:27:54.557 there's no such thing as 21st century skills. 00:27:55.171 --> 00:27:57.355 And that's why they need to be taught. 00:27:58.164 --> 00:27:59.357 I have to explain this. 00:27:59.357 --> 00:28:05.561 You know, if we go back in time, to see the origins of the 21st century skills, 00:28:05.561 --> 00:28:09.846 you'll end up with the liberal arts, the Septem Artes Liberales. 00:28:10.329 --> 00:28:14.915 Rhetoric, what we are doing right here, that's for me ancient history, 00:28:14.915 --> 00:28:16.239 but still needed today. 00:28:17.023 --> 00:28:21.267 But the question is, is this still being taught in school? 00:28:21.576 --> 00:28:27.271 Because, like ....... (check name) says, moreover we get a focus on the Three R's 00:28:28.080 --> 00:28:30.639 -- Reading, 'Riting, 'Rithmetics -- 00:28:30.639 --> 00:28:35.042 while most of the young people are looking to Snapchats. 00:28:35.734 --> 00:28:41.542 But because of the focus, because we want to test stuff, 00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:46.077 the more important things are being forgotten! 00:28:46.637 --> 00:28:50.231 Rhetoric, philosophy, for me, crucial. 00:28:51.616 --> 00:28:54.493 To be honest, then, you don't have to look at Ancient Times, 00:28:54.493 --> 00:28:56.562 than you have to look at Medieval Times, 00:28:56.562 --> 00:28:59.810 because then philosophy was added to the Liberal Arts. 00:29:00.303 --> 00:29:03.999 So we need to train our children because it's great to say: 00:29:03.999 --> 00:29:05.990 "Look at us: we've done it." 00:29:06.468 --> 00:29:11.905 Yes, but we are not talking about us, because in 20 years' time, they will -- 00:29:11.905 --> 00:29:18.068 we will be old, boring and other people need to sit there 00:29:18.068 --> 00:29:22.237 and beyond stage, using rhetoric. 00:29:22.237 --> 00:29:24.162 So we need to prepare them. 00:29:25.016 --> 00:29:27.265 I'm not sure if we're doing a great job. 00:29:29.414 --> 00:29:31.662 For instance, if we talk about technology, 00:29:31.662 --> 00:29:35.361 technology is often like sex ed in education. 00:29:35.361 --> 00:29:38.107 You know, you talk about all the dangerous stuff 00:29:38.497 --> 00:29:41.719 and you never talk about the fun stuff. 00:29:43.837 --> 00:29:47.392 You know, it's very simple: 00:29:47.392 --> 00:29:54.239 "Don't do this, don't do that, certainly don't try that! Go ahead!" 00:29:55.709 --> 00:30:00.401 And another -- for instance, McKinsey, the McKinsey report, 2014 McKinsey report, 00:30:00.401 --> 00:30:03.559 said there is -- and I agree again with you both -- 00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:04.762 there is a mismatch. 00:30:04.762 --> 00:30:08.241 There is a mismatch between what children study in school 00:30:08.241 --> 00:30:11.599 and which topics they choose, and what we need in the economy. 00:30:12.069 --> 00:30:17.348 But at the same time, the employers said: 00:30:17.348 --> 00:30:21.671 "You know, don't train them to a specific job 00:30:21.671 --> 00:30:26.911 "but train them in strategic and communication skills." 00:30:27.748 --> 00:30:32.041 OK, they have been around for ages but they are still important. 00:30:32.639 --> 00:30:35.869 But what do we do, for instance, in many schools? 00:30:35.869 --> 00:30:39.322 I've been in schools in Holland, in Germany, in -- 00:30:39.322 --> 00:30:44.106 you know, we teach them how to write a job application. 00:30:44.419 --> 00:30:49.477 We teach them how to perform a talk for a job. 00:30:49.477 --> 00:30:53.781 Do we teach them to write a LinkedIn profile? 00:30:53.781 --> 00:30:57.618 No, what we say is "Never post a drunk photo on Facebook, 00:30:58.152 --> 00:31:01.299 "because people will search you." 00:31:01.299 --> 00:31:03.219 What we don't say is: 00:31:03.219 --> 00:31:07.206 "You know what? Post something good about yourself on Facebook, 00:31:07.206 --> 00:31:09.092 "that isn't a selfie." 00:31:09.596 --> 00:31:11.843 But we think well, they will do this. 00:31:12.221 --> 00:31:15.451 Actually, for instance research by Jan van Dek (check): 00:31:15.451 --> 00:31:19.235 that's one of the stuff that our kids don't know. 00:31:19.235 --> 00:31:22.162 And if we don't teach them, who will? 00:31:23.033 --> 00:31:28.225 So that's my point: we need to teach them basic skills like Jo said: 00:31:28.225 --> 00:31:30.796 communication skills, strategic skills. 00:31:30.796 --> 00:31:35.785 And if you want to call them 21st century skills because, by accident, 00:31:35.785 --> 00:31:39.680 we're living in the 21st century, so be it. 00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:42.078 (Applause) Thank you. NOTE Paragraph 00:31:42.078 --> 00:31:49.682 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:31:50.211 --> 00:31:52.629 (Moderator) OK, thank you very much, Pedro. 00:31:53.086 --> 00:31:59.099 Our final speaker who is going to speak against the motion is Miles Berry, 00:31:59.099 --> 00:32:02.846 who is the principal lecturer in computing education 00:32:02.846 --> 00:32:06.624 at the University of Roehampton in the UK: Miles. NOTE Paragraph 00:32:07.104 --> 00:32:09.122 (Miles Berry) Pleasure to be here, really is. 00:32:09.521 --> 00:32:12.251 Philip and Gudrun, where are you guys? 00:32:13.073 --> 00:32:15.322 OK, on the Twitter thing you say: 00:32:15.322 --> 00:32:18.883 "We need to talk about what the purpose of education is, what is education for?" 00:32:18.883 --> 00:32:20.385 And that's where I want to start. 00:32:20.385 --> 00:32:24.565 I want to move back from the motion, to think about what education is for. 00:32:24.872 --> 00:32:28.342 And to do that, we need some understanding of what education is. 00:32:28.882 --> 00:32:32.668 I've been in education for over 40 years now. 00:32:32.907 --> 00:32:35.239 But even so, I checked. 00:32:35.239 --> 00:32:40.947 It's the culture or development of personal knowledge, or understanding, 00:32:41.401 --> 00:32:46.426 growth or character, moral and social qualities, etc., 00:32:46.712 --> 00:32:50.708 as contrasting with the imparting of a skill. 00:32:51.045 --> 00:32:53.319 (blurred: check) ... is 00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:58.540 OK, there's definitely a place for imparting skills, 00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:03.904 but that's training, not education, and there is a difference. 00:33:03.904 --> 00:33:08.720 My Roehampton students study education, but they are trained to teach. 00:33:09.320 --> 00:33:13.058 England's new computing curriculum educates people about the principles, 00:33:13.058 --> 00:33:18.406 the principles of computer science: (inaudible: check), I tell you. 00:33:18.406 --> 00:33:22.026 (laughter) ... technology, I think the technology ran on me tonight, 00:33:22.026 --> 00:33:23.446 it's all right I'll give it... 00:33:23.446 --> 00:33:25.368 (off) (unintelligible) 00:33:25.368 --> 00:33:31.306 (Berry) 21st century skill -- on knowledge -- (laughter) 00:33:31.306 --> 00:33:35.036 Knowledge that these things are the wrong shape for my head: never mind. 00:33:35.036 --> 00:33:38.605 OK, so: England's new computing curriculum that Jo has alluded to 00:33:38.605 --> 00:33:41.957 educates people about the principles of computer science, 00:33:41.957 --> 00:33:44.684 whereas we used to train them to use Office software. 00:33:44.684 --> 00:33:46.066 Or think about sex. 00:33:46.066 --> 00:33:51.606 Look, not like that: we rightly include sex education on the curriculum in schools 00:33:51.606 --> 00:33:59.856 but we typically don't include training. (Laughter) Important skills. 00:34:02.541 --> 00:34:07.153 Do without the microphones. (Laughter) ... very well. 00:34:08.640 --> 00:34:13.000 In England, our Education Act says what education is for. 00:34:13.550 --> 00:34:18.277 Firstly, it's to promote the spiritual, moral, cultural, mental and physical 00:34:18.277 --> 00:34:21.120 development of pupils and of society. 00:34:21.468 --> 00:34:24.669 And it's to prepare pupils for the opportunities, responsibilities 00:34:24.669 --> 00:34:27.020 and experiences of later life. 00:34:27.403 --> 00:34:30.700 What else could education possibly be for? 00:34:30.700 --> 00:34:33.763 In that, you just got to love laws that require you to do 00:34:33.763 --> 00:34:35.911 what you'd want to do anyhow. 00:34:36.372 --> 00:34:39.835 There does remain a question about how best to prepare pupils 00:34:39.835 --> 00:34:42.641 for these opportunities, responsibilities and experiences. 00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:48.538 I think the nob of the motion this evening is about whether this should be done 00:34:48.538 --> 00:34:51.799 through some sort of training in 21st century skills 00:34:52.153 --> 00:34:56.831 or by passing on the knowledge, understanding and wisdom 00:34:56.831 --> 00:35:01.265 of our generation to the next and I'd say, the latter. 00:35:01.650 --> 00:35:05.992 I've no problem with skills per se in teaching. 00:35:05.992 --> 00:35:09.669 Behavior management is a skill, coding is a skill, 00:35:09.669 --> 00:35:13.224 so is searching for things on Google, or even Bing. 00:35:13.552 --> 00:35:17.912 OK. I've some problem, though, with the notion that there are 21st century skills 00:35:17.912 --> 00:35:20.033 and I'd agree with you on that. 00:35:20.033 --> 00:35:24.074 But both of you have done a fine job of demolishing that notion already. 00:35:24.635 --> 00:35:29.837 I've also some problem with the skills -- with the notion that skills can transfer. 00:35:30.318 --> 00:35:33.468 Skills are about accomplishing something. 00:35:33.943 --> 00:35:36.644 There's a context to the skills, 00:35:36.644 --> 00:35:41.278 and I think we diminish specific skills by attempting to generalize them. 00:35:41.575 --> 00:35:47.409 It isn't critical thinking, it's thinking critically about something. 00:35:47.737 --> 00:35:52.561 It's not creativity, it's creating something. 00:35:52.561 --> 00:35:54.238 And it's not communication, 00:35:54.238 --> 00:35:58.218 it's communicating something through some media. 00:35:58.683 --> 00:36:00.915 The 'something' here matters. 00:36:01.388 --> 00:36:06.712 It's really not possible to teach skills in the abstract fashion, without context. 00:36:06.712 --> 00:36:08.942 And the context is king. 00:36:09.495 --> 00:36:11.366 Whatever the specific domain, 00:36:11.755 --> 00:36:16.316 knowledge of that domain is necessary for expert skills. 00:36:17.353 --> 00:36:21.341 My main problem, though, is that we've only a little time in school. 00:36:21.341 --> 00:36:25.677 We've other things to teach and our students have other things to learn: 00:36:25.677 --> 00:36:27.372 things like knowledge 00:36:27.782 --> 00:36:29.185 and understanding 00:36:29.489 --> 00:36:30.647 and wisdom. 00:36:31.059 --> 00:36:36.797 Without these, skills are unlikely to be of much practical benefit. 00:36:37.258 --> 00:36:38.846 Stephen Downes is here. 00:36:39.564 --> 00:36:45.162 Well, nodding in his direction, I'd say, learning is about connecting things: 00:36:45.162 --> 00:36:47.504 neurons, ideas, people. 00:36:47.504 --> 00:36:49.009 The computer scientists get this, 00:36:49.009 --> 00:36:54.554 Google's page rank algorithm relies not so much on the content of the page, 00:36:54.554 --> 00:36:56.709 as the links between the pages. 00:36:57.052 --> 00:37:01.844 The thing is then, the new stuff has to be connected to something. 00:37:01.844 --> 00:37:05.280 Otherwise, it's just isolated factoids. 00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:08.755 We can't make sense of it, we can't use new knowledge 00:37:09.055 --> 00:37:14.356 unless it's integrated into our existing mental maps, our schema. 00:37:14.667 --> 00:37:18.678 Put simply: it takes knowledge to gain knowledge. 00:37:19.268 --> 00:37:25.268 This apples to each of us as individuals, but it's also how civilization grows. 00:37:25.628 --> 00:37:27.727 Human achievement is a cumulative thing. 00:37:27.727 --> 00:37:31.621 New knowledge doesn't normally contradict what's gone before. 00:37:32.211 --> 00:37:33.752 It builds on it. 00:37:33.752 --> 00:37:35.880 If Newton saw further than others had, 00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:39.123 it was because he stood on the shoulders of giants. 00:37:39.757 --> 00:37:42.098 What hope would there be for the next generation 00:37:42.098 --> 00:37:45.715 if they had to discover everything afresh for themselves? 00:37:46.250 --> 00:37:48.937 The consequence of our building on what's gone before 00:37:48.937 --> 00:37:52.072 is that the pace of cultural, scientific and technological change 00:37:52.072 --> 00:37:54.712 accelerates exponentially. 00:37:55.027 --> 00:38:00.210 But even allowing for this acceleration is knowledge, understanding and wisdom 00:38:00.210 --> 00:38:02.191 which have done the test of time. 00:38:02.191 --> 00:38:04.391 Less so, skills. 00:38:04.391 --> 00:38:09.673 Expect new inventions and discoveries over the next 85 years 00:38:09.673 --> 00:38:12.562 and new practical skills to go with them. 00:38:12.881 --> 00:38:17.799 But don't expect the foundational shared knowledge of our civilization 00:38:17.799 --> 00:38:19.446 to become irrelevant. 00:38:19.916 --> 00:38:24.206 Indeed, it's on this very foundation that the new knowledge will be built. 00:38:24.716 --> 00:38:28.729 It's not 21st century skills that young people need. 00:38:28.729 --> 00:38:32.312 It's 21st century knowledge, understanding and wisdom. 00:38:33.048 --> 00:38:35.991 Time, I think, for a quick case study. 00:38:36.674 --> 00:38:40.159 The most successful education systems and the top universities 00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:44.917 seem to organize their curriculum around well knowledge-based subjects. 00:38:44.917 --> 00:38:50.430 England's new National Curriculum is quite explicitly a knowledge-based one. 00:38:50.430 --> 00:38:54.354 It sets out to provide pupils with an introduction to the essential knowledge 00:38:54.354 --> 00:38:56.287 they need to be educated as citizens, 00:38:56.287 --> 00:39:00.401 and to introduce them to the best which has been thought and said. 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:03.777 One of the most radical things we've done in that curriculum, 00:39:03.777 --> 00:39:06.149 which many see as rather reactionary, 00:39:06.149 --> 00:39:10.146 is to have replaced the old ICT with a new subject: computing. 00:39:10.713 --> 00:39:13.549 This includes an introduction to the principles of computer science 00:39:13.549 --> 00:39:15.179 for all, from age 5 up. 00:39:15.179 --> 00:39:16.996 It has been my privilege to be part of the team 00:39:16.996 --> 00:39:19.287 designing and implementing the new subject. 00:39:19.602 --> 00:39:23.151 Under the old curriculum we offered a good grounding in tech skills, 00:39:23.151 --> 00:39:25.408 finding this online, making a presentation, 00:39:25.408 --> 00:39:27.616 typing up stories, articles and reports. 00:39:27.616 --> 00:39:33.045 Sometimes, even making a spreadsheet, often about having a party. 00:39:33.708 --> 00:39:36.558 Do people really use spreadsheets to plan parties? 00:39:36.805 --> 00:39:40.933 Are these fun parties? Are these -- OK (laughs) 00:39:41.502 --> 00:39:44.624 It was fine: pupils moved on to work or the next phase of education 00:39:44.624 --> 00:39:46.725 with some competence and confidence 00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:49.768 and broadly speaking, were digitally literate. 00:39:50.214 --> 00:39:52.091 Our audit of new students at Roehampton's 00:39:52.091 --> 00:39:54.525 suggests that broad portfolio skills, (check) 00:39:54.525 --> 00:39:58.103 two thirds regarded themselves as competent, proficient or experts. 00:39:58.485 --> 00:40:02.478 That said, it was all too often a bit -- well, dull. 00:40:03.034 --> 00:40:05.912 There's a limit, or at least there should be a limit 00:40:05.912 --> 00:40:08.274 to the number of times you can find something out on the internet 00:40:08.274 --> 00:40:10.132 and make a presentation about it. 00:40:10.132 --> 00:40:13.995 Generally, it did precious little to provide any real knowledge 00:40:13.995 --> 00:40:18.957 or understanding of computation, information theory or digital technology. 00:40:19.327 --> 00:40:24.242 In the same audit, less than 15% of my new students 00:40:24.242 --> 00:40:27.243 rated their understanding of digital technology 00:40:27.243 --> 00:40:29.792 as competent, proficient or expert. 00:40:30.092 --> 00:40:31.478 So we started again. 00:40:31.478 --> 00:40:33.933 We built on the idea of computing as having three elements: 00:40:33.933 --> 00:40:37.165 computer science, information technology and digital literacy, 00:40:37.165 --> 00:40:41.200 the foundations, applications and implications of the discipline. 00:40:41.200 --> 00:40:43.469 We took a leaf out of William Morris's book: 00:40:43.469 --> 00:40:46.732 "Have nothing in your house that you do not know to be useful 00:40:46.732 --> 00:40:48.488 "or believe to be beautiful." 00:40:48.488 --> 00:40:51.997 And built a curriculum of things that would be useful, 00:40:51.997 --> 00:40:54.510 but also things that were interesting. 00:40:54.510 --> 00:40:57.647 We took a view that the best way to prepare pupils for a future 00:40:57.647 --> 00:41:02.708 in which digital technology looks quite likely to remain important 00:41:02.708 --> 00:41:06.400 was through providing a firm computer science foundation, 00:41:06.735 --> 00:41:12.440 things like logic, algorithms, abstraction, networks, programming. 00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:19.356 Yes, coding would be important, but not as a vocational skill for the IT industry, 00:41:19.356 --> 00:41:22.550 but as the lab work for computing, the medium through which 00:41:22.550 --> 00:41:25.634 the ideas of computer science are created and expressed. 00:41:25.634 --> 00:41:29.031 Computing became part of our curriculum 15 months ago. 00:41:29.338 --> 00:41:32.670 It's early days, but early indications are very positive. 00:41:32.995 --> 00:41:35.803 Teachers' professional development has been a challenge. 00:41:36.325 --> 00:41:41.321 But this hasn't been a challenge about pedagogical or technical skills. 00:41:41.585 --> 00:41:44.631 Teachers know how to teach and know how to use technology. 00:41:44.631 --> 00:41:47.773 It's just that they didn't know much computer science. 00:41:47.773 --> 00:41:49.954 They are, by and large, willing to learn, 00:41:49.954 --> 00:41:52.509 and many are quite enjoying the fast challenge. 00:41:53.037 --> 00:41:56.364 I don't want to leave you with the idea that I think 00:41:56.364 --> 00:41:59.640 knowledge is the only thing that matters in education. 00:41:59.897 --> 00:42:03.441 Of course it isn't: character matters. 00:42:03.717 --> 00:42:06.697 I'm talking here about traits and attitudes, 00:42:07.118 --> 00:42:15.045 things such as curiosity and creativity and courage of our 4-year old daughter. 00:42:15.045 --> 00:42:17.357 She's a curious character. 00:42:17.357 --> 00:42:21.259 She still has this sense of wonder in the world about her, 00:42:21.273 --> 00:42:24.115 that sense of Wow when she sees or hears something new, 00:42:24.115 --> 00:42:27.076 and still a willingness to explore, experiment and play. 00:42:27.076 --> 00:42:30.404 She's at a great little primary school and I shouldn't worry. 00:42:30.879 --> 00:42:35.162 But I do worry that her schooling might get in the way of her curiosity 00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:37.043 when it ought to be nurturing this. 00:42:37.043 --> 00:42:39.714 As Plowden had it back in '67, 00:42:39.714 --> 00:42:42.672 one of the main educational tasks of the primary school 00:42:42.672 --> 00:42:47.808 is to build on and strengthen children's intrinsic interest in learning 00:42:47.808 --> 00:42:50.084 and lead them to learn for themselves. NOTE Paragraph 00:42:50.413 --> 00:42:51.478 (Moderator, off) 21st century skill? NOTE Paragraph 00:42:51.685 --> 00:42:53.501 (Berry) But knowledge matters here. 00:42:53.890 --> 00:42:58.048 It's as Sophie learns more that I hope she'll want to learn even more. 00:42:58.479 --> 00:43:05.032 With literacy motivation, and good WiFi, she can teach herself almost anything, 00:43:05.032 --> 00:43:06.004 and does. 00:43:06.421 --> 00:43:07.992 Creativity matters. 00:43:08.534 --> 00:43:10.673 We learn not just though listening, reading and exploring, 00:43:10.673 --> 00:43:12.642 but also through making. 00:43:12.932 --> 00:43:16.386 I don't think there's some generic creativity skill, here. 00:43:16.386 --> 00:43:19.425 But I'd like my daughter to be creative in her music and her computing 00:43:19.425 --> 00:43:21.226 and her maths, and so on. 00:43:21.543 --> 00:43:25.811 She's been making things for a while now, but as her knowledge grows, 00:43:25.811 --> 00:43:29.705 I'm looking forward to her exploring and drawing on that in her creative work. 00:43:29.705 --> 00:43:31.200 Finally, courage. 00:43:31.670 --> 00:43:35.300 She's a fearless explorer, with tons of self-confidence. NOTE Paragraph 00:43:35.300 --> 00:43:36.742 (Off whisper, inaudible) (Berry) OK. NOTE Paragraph 00:43:36.742 --> 00:43:38.984 I want her school to encourage that. 00:43:38.984 --> 00:43:43.080 More importantly, I want her to have the courage to tell the truth, 00:43:43.080 --> 00:43:46.659 to stand up for those who can't stand up for themselves 00:43:46.659 --> 00:43:50.166 and to do the right thing, even if it's not the popular thing. 00:43:50.785 --> 00:43:55.666 So, what should we be doing to best prepare young people 00:43:55.666 --> 00:43:59.557 for the opportunities, responsibilities and experiences of later life? 00:44:00.662 --> 00:44:02.241 Passing on knowledge. 00:44:02.681 --> 00:44:04.318 Nurturing character. 00:44:04.753 --> 00:44:06.810 Sounds a bit old-fashioned, but honestly, 00:44:06.810 --> 00:44:10.395 what better preparation for the rest of the 21st century? 00:44:10.645 --> 00:44:18.899 Thank you. (Applause). NOTE Paragraph 00:44:18.899 --> 00:44:20.669 (Moderator) Thank you very much, Miles. 00:44:20.669 --> 00:44:26.907 Right, it's now over to you and I think we've got about 25 minutes 00:44:26.907 --> 00:44:29.478 for questions and contributions. 00:44:29.478 --> 00:44:33.406 If you ask a question, I'm going to ask our panel speakers 00:44:33.406 --> 00:44:36.872 not to answer it directly but to deal with it in their summing up, 00:44:36.872 --> 00:44:40.909 just so that we can ensure that we have a decent flow. 00:44:41.365 --> 00:44:46.137 And if you make a contribution, please, try to keep it fairly brief, well, brief, 00:44:46.137 --> 00:44:48.187 so that other people have a chance as well. 00:44:48.187 --> 00:44:50.875 And you've been very well-behaved so far. 00:44:50.875 --> 00:44:54.590 Please don't feel that you need to be quite so well-behaved now, 00:44:54.590 --> 00:44:56.437 but now is your opportunity. 00:44:56.437 --> 00:44:59.316 If you want to speak, please just raise your hand. 00:44:59.316 --> 00:45:03.146 Bear in mind that if you're at the back, it is slightly difficult to see you. 00:45:03.146 --> 00:45:05.033 And can you, if I call you, 00:45:05.033 --> 00:45:08.313 please can you just wait till the microphone turns up. 00:45:08.313 --> 00:45:10.195 Who'd like to go first? 00:45:13.827 --> 00:45:17.372 Would anybody like to ask a question or comment? 00:45:17.816 --> 00:45:20.082 Yes, at the back on the left, there. NOTE Paragraph 00:45:25.268 --> 00:45:30.726 (Participant 1) My question is short, particularly for Allan, I think. 00:45:31.296 --> 00:45:35.797 Why are critical thinking skills important in the 21st century? NOTE Paragraph 00:45:39.168 --> 00:45:43.089 (Moderator, off) OK. So that's one for Allan to deal with in his summing up. 00:45:44.168 --> 00:45:48.607 Anybody else, any-- Yes, over on the right there, Yannis (check) NOTE Paragraph 00:45:50.434 --> 00:45:51.450 (Participant 2) Thank you very much. 00:45:51.450 --> 00:45:55.044 I think both sides of the motion are saying it's not working. 00:45:55.654 --> 00:46:01.034 So who's to blame, who or what is to blame or who or what must we change? NOTE Paragraph 00:46:04.243 --> 00:46:05.951 (Moderator, off) Thank you for that. 00:46:06.503 --> 00:46:10.346 Right, I'm looking for some contributions now, somebody who's -- 00:46:10.346 --> 00:46:15.592 Yes, lady there, on the, just by the aisle, there. NOTE Paragraph 00:46:15.998 --> 00:46:17.527 (Participant 3) Whoops! OK. 00:46:17.527 --> 00:46:20.156 Hi, I just have a comment to all of you. 00:46:20.507 --> 00:46:24.013 I don't see a huge difference between your positions, 00:46:24.013 --> 00:46:28.360 because you always seem to say, it's important to have these, 00:46:28.683 --> 00:46:29.974 whatever you call them. 00:46:30.332 --> 00:46:35.149 Skills is a kind of a talent that you have when you are born, or whatever. 00:46:35.149 --> 00:46:39.565 You mentioned those things are important, so what is actually the difference? 00:46:39.565 --> 00:46:42.002 We just need to promote an environment 00:46:42.002 --> 00:46:48.587 to let people develop those types of skills or talents. 00:46:52.207 --> 00:46:54.969 (Moderator) Yes, also on the aisle there. NOTE Paragraph 00:46:54.973 --> 00:46:56.821 (Participant 4) Thank you. I want to -- NOTE Paragraph 00:46:56.821 --> 00:46:59.597 (Moderator) Would you mind just introduce yourself briefly; 00:46:59.597 --> 00:47:02.268 actually, if people would just say who they are and where they're from, 00:47:02.268 --> 00:47:03.763 that would be helpful as well. (Participant 4) OK. 00:47:03.763 --> 00:47:06.825 I'm Denise Gaspard- Richard, I'm from the University 00:47:06.825 --> 00:47:09.673 of the West Indies and Caribbean-- (Moderator) Thank you. 00:47:09.673 --> 00:47:10.870 (Participant 4) ..... Campus. 00:47:10.870 --> 00:47:16.204 The board said to me, seemed to be saying somewhat of the same thing. 00:47:16.204 --> 00:47:18.805 As you all were speaking, I kept thinking 00:47:18.805 --> 00:47:21.908 about some employers' surveys that we have done 00:47:21.908 --> 00:47:25.149 over a period of time in the Caribbean, 00:47:25.149 --> 00:47:27.113 where the ..... (check), 00:47:27.113 --> 00:47:32.438 soft skills are not really being taught at University. 00:47:32.438 --> 00:47:35.893 So when a student comes out in today work environment, 00:47:35.893 --> 00:47:38.844 they can't carry out a decent conversation 00:47:38.844 --> 00:47:40.587 and therefore they can't call up 00:47:40.587 --> 00:47:44.955 someone who is not getting the kind of service that they need, 00:47:44.955 --> 00:47:49.532 they don't know how to communicate in .............. (check) OK? 00:47:49.532 --> 00:47:54.235 So when I listened to Jo, I heard some of that coming out 00:47:54.235 --> 00:47:58.354 and I'm wondering if, probably, we have simply substituted 00:47:58.354 --> 00:48:02.992 social skills, or soft skills to call it 21st century skills. 00:48:02.992 --> 00:48:05.178 So we have more or less seen the same thing 00:48:05.478 --> 00:48:11.119 as we were seeing before we came up with this terminology. Thank you. NOTE Paragraph 00:48:12.232 --> 00:48:13.987 (Moderator) Thank you for that. Anybody else? 00:48:13.987 --> 00:48:18.908 Yes, in the front row, there. Just down here, please. 00:48:18.908 --> 00:48:23.594 Is there a mike here in the front row on my right? That's it. NOTE Paragraph 00:48:25.514 --> 00:48:27.304 (Participant 5) Thank you. My name is Anne DeLorean (check) 00:48:27.304 --> 00:48:29.205 from the European Schoolnet in Brussels. 00:48:29.673 --> 00:48:36.717 A comment: I think maybe we are missing the adaptive nature of human beings, 00:48:37.356 --> 00:48:42.664 because society has progressed through the ages because -- 00:48:42.664 --> 00:48:45.982 just because we are adaptive. 00:48:46.509 --> 00:48:51.128 We have not always had to be taught everything we do, 00:48:51.128 --> 00:48:54.071 but we have to discover it a little bit. 00:48:54.719 --> 00:49:03.510 I think, as educators, what we need to do is provide the -- at the area or the ethos 00:49:03.510 --> 00:49:07.094 where this discovery can happen, 00:49:07.593 --> 00:49:12.879 not necessarily that we have to provide the lessons to do it 00:49:13.397 --> 00:49:17.354 but provide the means of discovery. NOTE Paragraph 00:49:18.976 --> 00:49:23.792 (Moderator) Thank you. Let's have another one on the front, here. 00:49:24.201 --> 00:49:27.484 Lady on the front row on the left hand side here. NOTE Paragraph 00:49:31.247 --> 00:49:35.048 (Participant 6) My name is Nikki Spalding, from Higher Education Academy in the UK. 00:49:35.509 --> 00:49:38.467 I was wondering what do you think is driving the rhetoric 00:49:39.097 --> 00:49:41.176 behind 21st century skills the most? 00:49:41.176 --> 00:49:46.522 Is it happy individuals and learners? Happy employers? Happy society? 00:49:46.522 --> 00:49:48.716 Or happy Government Treasury? NOTE Paragraph 00:49:51.241 --> 00:49:52.795 (Moderator) Thank you for that. 00:49:53.566 --> 00:49:57.443 Yes, towards the back there, on the right hand side. NOTE Paragraph 00:50:09.776 --> 00:50:11.589 (Participant 7) Lydia .... (check), Poland. 00:50:12.065 --> 00:50:17.018 You have concentrated on education of young people. 00:50:17.018 --> 00:50:21.758 And what about education of people at your age? 00:50:21.758 --> 00:50:28.840 Who and how (laugher) should you educate these 21st century skills or knowledge? NOTE Paragraph 00:50:29.804 --> 00:50:34.076 (Moderator) Very good question indeed. So, we'll come back to that one. 00:50:34.076 --> 00:50:40.872 Yes, we have a number on this side, in the -- where has the microphone gone? 00:50:40.872 --> 00:50:46.381 Yes, just at the front of this little block there, thank you. NOTE Paragraph 00:50:46.381 --> 00:50:50.311 (Participant 8) Hi, my name is Mike Rauser (check), from McKinsey and Company in Germany. 00:50:50.670 --> 00:50:52.715 And my question is directed to Mr Berry. 00:50:53.247 --> 00:50:56.882 Where you've stressed teaching specific skills, 00:50:58.751 --> 00:51:01.876 please correct me if I'm wrong, about teaching specific skills in school. 00:51:02.167 --> 00:51:05.840 How do you account for situations where 00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:09.903 a skill that may not even have been invented yet 00:51:09.903 --> 00:51:12.387 -- I'm thinking about say, from an 1980 view point, 00:51:12.707 --> 00:51:17.001 15 years in the future, that nobody knew what the internet was. 00:51:17.001 --> 00:51:20.727 Nobody knew it was going to be in there 15 years later. 00:51:21.448 --> 00:51:23.319 OK, very limited. 00:51:26.710 --> 00:51:30.399 (Off) I think the internet was invented in 1969. NOTE Paragraph 00:51:30.399 --> 00:51:34.154 (P8) (people speaking together) OK, I understand that, but in general-- NOTE Paragraph 00:51:34.844 --> 00:51:39.275 (Moderator) Can we -- If you could just try to make it a contribution 00:51:39.275 --> 00:51:42.236 and then they can respond in their final remarks. NOTE Paragraph 00:51:42.241 --> 00:51:46.029 (P8) Sure enough (Moderator) OK (overlap) NOTE Paragraph 00:51:46.029 --> 00:51:48.817 (P8) -- that we don't know about 15 years into the future, 00:51:48.817 --> 00:51:53.107 or skills that are here now, that may no longer be there 15 years into the future. 00:51:53.634 --> 00:51:55.437 Let's hope that's a little clearer. NOTE Paragraph 00:51:55.437 --> 00:51:56.601 (Moderator) OK, thank you. 00:51:56.601 --> 00:52:00.444 Can I have some more contributions, rather than questions? 00:52:00.454 --> 00:52:03.755 Anybody like to give their opinion? Yes, on the -- 00:52:04.405 --> 00:52:06.635 I think about the third row here. NOTE Paragraph 00:52:08.835 --> 00:52:10.885 (Participant 9) So actually it's phrased as a question, 00:52:10.885 --> 00:52:15.773 but think of it as a contribution. (Moderator) Yes (laughter). 00:52:15.773 --> 00:52:17.987 A rhetorical contribution. 00:52:18.248 --> 00:52:24.703 (P9) So all of you have been arguing for or against 21st century skills 00:52:24.703 --> 00:52:26.167 very convincingly. 00:52:27.795 --> 00:52:30.848 But you were always talking about what they are, 00:52:31.437 --> 00:52:33.749 and not about what they aren't. 00:52:34.029 --> 00:52:38.241 So maybe, if the question is phrased a bit differently, 00:52:41.607 --> 00:52:46.463 you would need to make a more difficult point, so: 00:52:47.190 --> 00:52:50.486 what do you think are skills that are no longer relevant, 00:52:50.486 --> 00:52:56.517 or knowledge that is no longer relevant now in the 21st century, 00:52:56.521 --> 00:52:59.954 and that was indeed very important 200 years ago? NOTE Paragraph 00:53:00.385 --> 00:53:03.158 (Moderator) What would your answer to your own question be? NOTE Paragraph 00:53:03.164 --> 00:53:06.824 (P9) I would have to think about it. (Moderator) Right. (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:53:08.106 --> 00:53:11.678 Right, at the -- right at the back, we've got two hands up there. 00:53:12.248 --> 00:53:18.163 At the back, somebody with a dark-colored jacket on -- that's it. NOTE Paragraph 00:53:18.531 --> 00:53:20.058 (Participant 10) Mike Brown, 00:53:20.058 --> 00:53:23.035 from the National Institute of Digital Learning in Ireland, 00:53:23.035 --> 00:53:25.994 A question, but equally a contribution. 00:53:26.284 --> 00:53:28.420 What do you think, what does the panel think, 00:53:28.420 --> 00:53:31.177 22nd century skills will be? 00:53:31.177 --> 00:53:35.473 Particularly, particularly if we fail to achieve 00:53:35.473 --> 00:53:38.774 the post-2015 Sustainable Development Goals? NOTE Paragraph 00:53:40.279 --> 00:53:43.833 (Moderator) Right. Next to -- at the back, there. NOTE Paragraph 00:53:44.073 --> 00:53:46.085 (Participant 11) I think we've lost the plot. 00:53:46.085 --> 00:53:50.154 30 years ago, many students started overtaking the teachers in knowledge. 00:53:50.719 --> 00:53:57.360 Our school server was looked after by students, pupils, rather than teachers, 00:53:57.363 --> 00:53:58.644 because they couldn't do it. 00:53:58.644 --> 00:54:00.126 And that happens all the while. 00:54:00.378 --> 00:54:03.856 Medical patients are getting more knowledge than the doctors, 00:54:03.856 --> 00:54:06.297 because they search the internet before they go to the doctor's 00:54:06.297 --> 00:54:07.596 about their own disease. 00:54:07.596 --> 00:54:10.478 So I think we have got no chance, we can't teach anymore. 00:54:11.509 --> 00:54:15.478 (Moderator) OK, thank you for that. Somebody standing up there -- 00:54:15.656 --> 00:54:19.146 Yes, with the hat on. Hello, Clark (check)? NOTE Paragraph 00:54:19.146 --> 00:54:22.313 (Participant 12) Yes. Hi, my name is Elijah from Sweden 00:54:22.313 --> 00:54:26.075 and I work with a software company developing ideation software. 00:54:27.359 --> 00:54:31.195 My contribution is that I wonder if we should not dig even deeper 00:54:31.195 --> 00:54:34.616 and see if this is a structural problem, because I'd like to say that these skills 00:54:34.616 --> 00:54:36.114 are being taught. 00:54:36.114 --> 00:54:39.050 We see today that people are in two different types of networks: 00:54:39.050 --> 00:54:43.308 they are in centralized or distributed networks at work or at school, 00:54:43.539 --> 00:54:45.919 but distributed in their spare time. 00:54:46.117 --> 00:54:48.490 And we see also that these different types of network 00:54:48.490 --> 00:54:51.295 cultivate different types of values. 00:54:51.298 --> 00:54:53.080 So it could be an organizational problem, 00:54:53.080 --> 00:54:55.800 but also a value problem, if we dig even deeper. 00:54:56.120 --> 00:54:59.601 For example, from advertising to conversation 00:54:59.601 --> 00:55:04.631 from ownership to sharing, from profit to growth -- 00:55:04.631 --> 00:55:07.031 sorry, from profit to sustainability, and so on. 00:55:07.031 --> 00:55:10.908 So my contribution is basically, maybe the problem is even deeper, 00:55:10.908 --> 00:55:13.067 maybe it has to do about how we are organized, 00:55:13.067 --> 00:55:16.276 and the values that those organizations cultivate. NOTE Paragraph 00:55:16.969 --> 00:55:20.944 (Moderator) Thank you for that (Applause) 00:55:20.944 --> 00:55:25.299 Yes, down in the front block here, in the middle. NOTE Paragraph 00:55:26.954 --> 00:55:29.720 (Participant 13) I'm Cory Doctorow, from the morning plenary. 00:55:31.286 --> 00:55:34.960 It seems to me that education has been refactored over the last several decades 00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:38.310 as a kind of factory, whose product is educated children, 00:55:38.310 --> 00:55:39.657 with teachers as employees, 00:55:39.657 --> 00:55:44.208 and the board of directors as the Ministry of Education, God help us, Michael Gove, 00:55:44.208 --> 00:55:45.270 as the CEO. 00:55:45.270 --> 00:55:46.330 And (laughter) 00:55:46.330 --> 00:55:50.797 it seems like, when you organize something around the idea 00:55:50.797 --> 00:55:53.943 that the public are shareholders and that we're doing something that's a business, 00:55:53.943 --> 00:55:56.943 you have to have a quarterly report where some numbers go up 00:55:56.943 --> 00:55:58.664 to show that the business is thriving. 00:55:58.664 --> 00:56:00.398 And as a result, we are reify things 00:56:00.398 --> 00:56:02.120 that are not pedagogically supported, 00:56:02.120 --> 00:56:04.877 like attendance and standardized test scores, 00:56:04.877 --> 00:56:08.937 rather than things that are pedagogically supported as being real learning, 00:56:08.937 --> 00:56:12.680 which are often not quantifiable and are difficult to recognize, 00:56:12.680 --> 00:56:16.329 except as a kind of creative fog that you see your students in, 00:56:16.329 --> 00:56:21.632 where they are excited and are really chasing knowledge. 00:56:21.632 --> 00:56:24.136 And so now we're -- can be obsessed with turning children into 00:56:24.136 --> 00:56:26.947 second-rate spreadsheets or third-rate spellcheckers, 00:56:26.947 --> 00:56:29.718 instead of teaching them arithmetic and language. 00:56:30.147 --> 00:56:32.799 It seems like a focus on skills, 00:56:32.799 --> 00:56:36.127 without reference to the way that we frame education, 00:56:36.127 --> 00:56:37.717 gets us nowhere. 00:56:37.717 --> 00:56:40.588 Adding standardized tests' outcomes where we look at 00:56:40.588 --> 00:56:43.502 whether or not you've acquired 21st century skills, 00:56:43.502 --> 00:56:47.749 ignores the fact that anything that you try to teach, 00:56:47.749 --> 00:56:50.645 where the only way you're evaluated is with high-stake testing, 00:56:51.635 --> 00:56:52.570 gives you nothing, 00:56:52.570 --> 00:56:55.805 except for someone who has been crammed full of a bunch of facts 00:56:55.805 --> 00:56:57.574 that they'll promptly forget when they leave school, 00:56:57.574 --> 00:56:59.603 and no synthetic capability. NOTE Paragraph 00:57:00.877 --> 00:57:02.009 (Moderator) Thank you for that. 00:57:02.271 --> 00:57:06.642 Yes, on the side of this block here, on the left. NOTE Paragraph 00:57:09.293 --> 00:57:12.728 (Participant 14) Thank you. I am ..... (check) from the Investor Malawi. 00:57:13.741 --> 00:57:17.356 My question is, I don't know whether we know what we're talking about. 00:57:18.947 --> 00:57:22.666 (Laughter) In Africa, we believe that 00:57:22.666 --> 00:57:24.367 if you don't know where you're going, 00:57:24.367 --> 00:57:26.454 even the Lord can't take you there. (check) 00:57:27.775 --> 00:57:31.399 Are we changing education, although we are using, 00:57:31.399 --> 00:57:38.001 we attempt to coexist two educations, or we are neglecting education. Thank you. NOTE Paragraph 00:57:38.370 --> 00:57:42.372 (Moderator) Thank you. Yes, in the middle of the front block again, 00:57:42.372 --> 00:57:44.518 and then I'll come over to this one. NOTE Paragraph 00:57:45.300 --> 00:57:48.154 (Participant 15) Hi, Olaf ........ from .... University of Applied Science. 00:57:48.154 --> 00:57:51.759 As a university of applied science, we're teaching skills like hell: 00:57:51.982 --> 00:57:56.180 social skills, soft skills, technical skills, all this stuff. 00:57:56.180 --> 00:57:58.489 But maybe we are missing out the values behind these skills, 00:57:58.489 --> 00:58:01.317 because they aren't the things in the future. (check) NOTE Paragraph 00:58:02.570 --> 00:58:07.967 (Moderator) Thank you. Let's go into this block in the front here, 00:58:08.243 --> 00:58:13.685 on the right hand side, the -- the lady there, I think, just in front of the camera. NOTE Paragraph 00:58:14.342 --> 00:58:15.842 (Participant 16) My name is Lisa .......... (check) 00:58:15.842 --> 00:58:18.358 I work at Rosetta Stone (check) in the United States. 00:58:18.358 --> 00:58:23.521 I think my comment really builds on some of the things that Cory Doctorow said. 00:58:24.181 --> 00:58:26.862 You could argue that the premise that we are arguing 00:58:26.862 --> 00:58:28.802 is actually the wrong question. 00:58:28.802 --> 00:58:33.522 It's not important, we -- just teaching the 21st century skills isn't enough. 00:58:33.522 --> 00:58:36.073 Those skills have to be honed, practiced and applied, 00:58:36.073 --> 00:58:37.530 for them to do anything. 00:58:37.530 --> 00:58:39.091 So it's not about the teaching, it's about 00:58:39.091 --> 00:58:41.518 what should the students do with the teaching after that. NOTE Paragraph 00:58:42.853 --> 00:58:45.712 (Moderator) Thank you for that. Let's have another one on this side. 00:58:47.002 --> 00:58:49.401 One here on the front -- front row. NOTE Paragraph 00:58:53.876 --> 00:58:56.245 (Participant 17) Good evening, I'm .......... (check) of the European Schoolnet, 00:58:56.245 --> 00:59:01.271 I want to be also a bit provocative and I'm thinking about the role you mentioned. 00:59:01.271 --> 00:59:02.876 What's the role of education? 00:59:02.876 --> 00:59:06.894 Are we pushed by industry to deliver certain things or not? 00:59:06.894 --> 00:59:10.273 And I'm thinking, what's the role of the parents in all that? 00:59:10.746 --> 00:59:15.767 Is it maybe the role of the parents to teach these kinds of things? 00:59:15.767 --> 00:59:18.667 You talked, Miles, about character building 00:59:19.041 --> 00:59:21.273 and I think there are certain things school can do, 00:59:21.718 --> 00:59:26.435 but I have, at least for my generation, a little bit of feeling that parents, also 00:59:26.435 --> 00:59:31.286 shift a little bit, sometimes, the responsibility to school, 00:59:31.961 --> 00:59:37.254 to technology, and maybe it's time to be a good parent again. NOTE Paragraph 00:59:38.231 --> 00:59:40.085 (Moderator) Thank you for that. (Applause) 00:59:40.085 --> 00:59:43.149 Right at the back, there, on the right hand side, 00:59:44.126 --> 00:59:45.844 right at the back in the middle. 00:59:48.771 --> 00:59:51.203 (Participant 18) Hi: Bernard Sander from New York University. 00:59:52.621 --> 00:59:55.274 I grew up developing my own film, 00:59:55.724 --> 00:59:58.365 though I'm a pretty adequate digital photographer, 00:59:58.365 --> 01:00:03.747 I did research using card catalogs and paper indexes and microfiche, 01:00:03.747 --> 01:00:07.517 but I am a more than adequate digital researcher. 01:00:08.557 --> 01:00:11.292 And I think the story is the same for most of the people in the room. 01:00:11.292 --> 01:00:14.752 So the question really is, what was inadequate about my education? 01:00:16.335 --> 01:00:19.588 Nothing I did in the 20th century hasn't prepared me 01:00:19.588 --> 01:00:22.645 for what 21st century has begun. 01:00:23.410 --> 01:00:25.831 And as long as I'm competent 01:00:26.312 --> 01:00:30.077 in my capacity to search for new information 01:00:30.077 --> 01:00:35.672 and in being willing to put any effort to acquire new skills, 01:00:36.032 --> 01:00:38.141 I don't feel that I'm unprepared, 01:00:38.141 --> 01:00:41.058 and I don't frankly think that any student is really unprepared, 01:00:41.058 --> 01:00:42.712 as long as they have that. 01:00:42.720 --> 01:00:50.089 So what is it that the 21st century brings that is so unique, 01:00:50.992 --> 01:00:53.271 other than the fact that they can make a mistake 01:00:53.271 --> 01:00:56.278 and be seen by everybody all at once in three seconds, 01:00:57.131 --> 01:00:59.083 right? you know, so that's fun. 01:00:59.083 --> 01:01:03.385 But other than that little piece, what's new? 01:01:05.707 --> 01:01:07.141 (Moderator) OK.Thank you for that. 01:01:07.141 --> 01:01:12.198 Right at the back, against the wall, with a red tie. That's it. NOTE Paragraph 01:01:16.349 --> 01:01:17.485 (Participant 19) I'm Eric Balance (check) 01:01:17.485 --> 01:01:23.444 and I'm from the Education, Audiovisual and Culture Executive Agency. 01:01:24.184 --> 01:01:26.807 We're talking about skills, 01:01:27.483 --> 01:01:32.635 because our employers tell us that our kids don't have them. 01:01:33.135 --> 01:01:38.055 Why are we not asking about the skills, not the employers, 01:01:38.055 --> 01:01:40.723 but society is asking for? NOTE Paragraph 01:01:45.639 --> 01:01:49.351 (Moderator) Yes, next door to the last speaker. NOTE Paragraph 01:01:50.383 --> 01:01:51.865 (Participant 20) Kat Sanford (check) from the UK. 01:01:51.865 --> 01:01:54.226 I've changed jobs now, but in a previous life 01:01:54.226 --> 01:01:58.342 I've worked with many, many teachers, primary and secondary, 01:01:58.342 --> 01:02:01.922 and they will tell you that all of the skills you're talking about, 01:02:01.922 --> 01:02:06.281 with creativity, adaptation, rhetoric, 01:02:06.281 --> 01:02:09.556 all of them are what they are trying to teach, 01:02:09.556 --> 01:02:12.876 when they are not delivering standardized tests. 01:02:13.064 --> 01:02:14.313 So the question is, 01:02:14.733 --> 01:02:18.832 do we want the education system to be told to do a certain thing 01:02:18.832 --> 01:02:21.423 or are we trying to encourage it from the inside? 01:02:21.423 --> 01:02:23.359 Because I think they are two different things. NOTE Paragraph 01:02:24.556 --> 01:02:27.309 (Moderator) Yes (Applause). Thank you for that. 01:02:27.690 --> 01:02:30.121 In the front row here, on the left hand side. NOTE Paragraph 01:02:33.182 --> 01:02:35.207 (Participant 21) Yes, hello, this is Philip from IBA 01:02:35.207 --> 01:02:39.569 and I wonder if we're not discussing on a completely too advanced level. 01:02:39.569 --> 01:02:42.867 I just got an email from the school of my son, today, 01:02:42.867 --> 01:02:47.249 where the school council had decided that -- and that was the name -- 01:02:47.249 --> 01:02:48.890 that game boys should be left home. 01:02:50.058 --> 01:02:55.287 Which makes me think if what we're discussing here is not way away 01:02:55.287 --> 01:02:57.879 from what the reality looks like, 01:02:57.879 --> 01:03:01.723 because we're here sitting and discussing really interesting topics, 01:03:01.723 --> 01:03:06.173 and in our ideal state of mind, it's something like that. 01:03:06.173 --> 01:03:09.223 And then I go out and see people like Donald Trump who are a result 01:03:09.223 --> 01:03:11.263 of our education system, 01:03:11.263 --> 01:03:15.826 which is a reason for shutting the whole thing down, I think. 01:03:15.826 --> 01:03:18.650 (Laughter, applause) NOTE Paragraph 01:03:18.650 --> 01:03:23.599 (Moderator) Thank you for that. Yes, another one here, in the front block. NOTE Paragraph 01:03:30.156 --> 01:03:35.323 (Participant 22) Hello, I come from the University of Oslo, Norway, 01:03:35.945 --> 01:03:37.435 ...... (check name). 01:03:38.304 --> 01:03:41.670 There was quite a lot of investigation in Norway, a few years back. 01:03:41.968 --> 01:03:44.721 They asked employers, I would like to go to employers: 01:03:45.312 --> 01:03:47.077 "What kinds of skills are you looking for 01:03:47.077 --> 01:03:49.583 "in a candidate that you consider employing?" 01:03:49.955 --> 01:03:53.435 And the first one was: ability to cooperate. 01:03:53.981 --> 01:03:56.010 Then we asked to ourselves, are we doing that? 01:03:56.535 --> 01:04:01.528 And then the next one on the list was ability to attain new knowledge; 01:04:01.982 --> 01:04:05.846 next, ability to think independently and critically; 01:04:06.228 --> 01:04:10.947 communication skills; ability to use knowledge in new fields; 01:04:10.947 --> 01:04:14.165 ability to establish contact and building relations. 01:04:14.165 --> 01:04:19.051 And again, we're not doing these things, we're not -- kind of. 01:04:19.510 --> 01:04:25.248 Point 7 on the list was good theoretical knowledge in your field of science. 01:04:25.248 --> 01:04:27.198 That's what we're doing all the time. 01:04:27.198 --> 01:04:29.447 I mean it's great to see so many people here 01:04:29.447 --> 01:04:36.795 but let's face it, most people are not here. (Laughter) 01:04:36.795 --> 01:04:43.223 That means that lectures -- I mean it's great to see many people at this meeting, 01:04:43.223 --> 01:04:48.839 concerned with teaching in general, but the fact is that most lectures, 01:04:49.252 --> 01:04:53.335 say basic course in first year mathematic, whatever, at my university, 01:04:53.335 --> 01:04:57.985 are being taught today in exactly the same way as when I was a student, 01:04:58.439 --> 01:04:59.751 thirty years ago. 01:04:59.755 --> 01:05:02.646 So that's why this conference is important, and 01:05:02.646 --> 01:05:06.441 that's why we need to provide students -- some people have to take responsibility 01:05:06.441 --> 01:05:10.316 to provide students with the skills that employers need. 01:05:11.745 --> 01:05:13.065 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 01:05:13.065 --> 01:05:14.237 (Moderator) Thank you. There was another question 01:05:14.237 --> 01:05:17.552 just near to the last speaker, in the same block, 01:05:17.552 --> 01:05:22.448 the lady there, just the row in front, I think. NOTE Paragraph 01:05:25.992 --> 01:05:28.877 (Participant 23) Hi, Lisa, with the Global Business School Network. 01:05:29.254 --> 01:05:30.656 And ........ (check) 01:05:30.656 --> 01:05:35.118 perhaps it's not just what skills we're teaching, but more so 01:05:35.118 --> 01:05:39.497 what 21st century pedagogical skills that we're using, in that 01:05:39.497 --> 01:05:42.512 sometimes it's just as important how it's being taught 01:05:42.512 --> 01:05:43.674 than what is being taught. 01:05:43.674 --> 01:05:46.901 And I think back to my college and in some of the courses, 01:05:46.901 --> 01:05:49.221 sometimes when I was going through the course catalog, 01:05:49.221 --> 01:05:53.802 it wasn't how exciting the title was, but who was teaching it. 01:05:53.802 --> 01:05:58.320 And I think that goes back to some of the test scores 01:05:58.320 --> 01:06:00.561 that teachers are very focused on as well. 01:06:00.561 --> 01:06:02.953 And when I look at my daughter who has started school 01:06:02.953 --> 01:06:06.190 and what when I started school about 30 years ago, 01:06:06.675 --> 01:06:09.047 and looking at how she is being taught 01:06:09.891 --> 01:06:12.302 -- taking away from ...... (check) what should be included -- 01:06:12.302 --> 01:06:16.872 but a lot of that rote learning and a lot of new skills they're using as well, so. NOTE Paragraph 01:06:19.108 --> 01:06:22.588 (Moderator) OK, thank you, another one in the ..... (check) over there NOTE Paragraph 01:06:23.337 --> 01:06:25.412 (Participant 24) Hi, my name is ...... (check) 01:06:25.412 --> 01:06:27.157 I work for UNESCO UNIPOP (check) 01:06:27.852 --> 01:06:30.520 I just want to ask, not just for the panelists, 01:06:30.520 --> 01:06:32.207 but I think for everyone. 01:06:32.207 --> 01:06:36.849 Maybe after 20, 30 years or so, are we still going to talk about the same thing? 01:06:36.849 --> 01:06:40.175 Or are we going to -- what the idea would be the next topic 01:06:40.175 --> 01:06:42.660 that we're going to talk about? 01:06:42.660 --> 01:06:47.203 And I just also wanted to also reiterate what our head of office is actually saying, 01:06:47.203 --> 01:06:49.562 I mean -- ..... (check name) -- 01:06:49.562 --> 01:06:55.387 he always say that the world is not hungry for more words, more resolutions, 01:06:55.387 --> 01:06:57.844 more talks and more panel discussions. 01:06:57.844 --> 01:07:00.602 The world is actually hungry for more actions. 01:07:00.863 --> 01:07:02.161 Thank you very much. NOTE Paragraph 01:07:03.204 --> 01:07:07.620 (Moderator) Thank you. We've got about 5 minutes left for questions. 01:07:07.620 --> 01:07:11.751 Please, so if you want to ask a question, just stick your hand up 01:07:11.751 --> 01:07:14.757 and then we can get an idea: I think there is about three more. 01:07:14.757 --> 01:07:18.805 So, the man right at the back by the aisle here, 01:07:18.805 --> 01:07:21.028 on the right hand side, please, first. NOTE Paragraph 01:07:23.513 --> 01:07:26.179 (Participant 25) Hi, ............. (check name) from London. 01:07:26.179 --> 01:07:29.680 Miles mentioned knowledge and character, 01:07:30.775 --> 01:07:34.230 I think one thing left out here is values. 01:07:35.297 --> 01:07:38.343 So you know, we need knowledge to do things, 01:07:38.343 --> 01:07:39.782 we need skills to do things, 01:07:39.782 --> 01:07:43.196 but we first have to agree at what's worthy of doing. NOTE Paragraph 01:07:45.202 --> 01:07:48.580 (Moderator) OK, thank you, and there was a question, again on the aisle, here, 01:07:48.580 --> 01:07:54.842 on the left hand side -- lady just down here: that's it. NOTE Paragraph 01:07:55.288 --> 01:07:59.445 (Participant 26) It's not really a question, but a challenge, maybe 01:07:59.445 --> 01:08:01.071 for the panelists. 01:08:01.071 --> 01:08:06.016 I miss a little bit of diversity, so maybe more ethnical backgrounds, 01:08:06.016 --> 01:08:08.869 different ethnical backgrounds looking at the same question, 01:08:08.873 --> 01:08:12.280 and how is it that we are addressing this in different contexts. 01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:17.326 So maybe for the next plenary, we can have a bit more diversity. NOTE Paragraph 01:08:18.886 --> 01:08:23.035 (Moderator) OK, and then there's -- there are two, right at the back, 01:08:23.035 --> 01:08:24.562 on the right hand side. NOTE Paragraph 01:08:28.684 --> 01:08:31.354 (Participant 27) .................... (check name) Belgrade, Serbia. 01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:39.895 Part of the title of this panel is that soft skills, 21st century skills, 01:08:39.895 --> 01:08:41.369 should be taught. 01:08:41.847 --> 01:08:49.287 My question is, is there any published evidence as to what extent 01:08:49.777 --> 01:08:54.004 teaching them really changes the mastery of these skills? NOTE Paragraph 01:08:57.088 --> 01:09:01.048 (Moderator) And I think, a final question, again right at the back -- 01:09:01.048 --> 01:09:05.037 -- or a contribution -- right at the back on the -- here we are, that's it. NOTE Paragraph 01:09:06.635 --> 01:09:09.165 (Participant 27) Thank you. My name is Heike Dratch (check name). 01:09:09.165 --> 01:09:12.716 I'm working for GIZ (check) an international cooperation organization. 01:09:12.716 --> 01:09:17.667 And my -- what I'm lacking a bit here is, in looking at 21st century skills, 01:09:17.667 --> 01:09:21.599 and looking at Paris, the climate change conference, 01:09:22.031 --> 01:09:25.348 so what kind of skills do we need, to look into the future 01:09:25.348 --> 01:09:32.230 and really see what we're doing now is a future-oriented, sustainable activity. 01:09:32.230 --> 01:09:36.406 So what kind of skills are not taught, in the sense of 01:09:36.406 --> 01:09:39.393 having a future orientation of our behavior now 01:09:39.393 --> 01:09:41.314 and how we can change our behaviors. 01:09:41.677 --> 01:09:45.264 So this is a -- probably in the next 10, 20 years, 01:09:45.264 --> 01:09:48.351 we need answers for that, how we change our behavior 01:09:48.351 --> 01:09:50.922 and seeing how it effects on what we're doing. NOTE Paragraph 01:09:51.950 --> 01:09:54.085 (Moderator) OK, thank you very much for that, 01:09:54.085 --> 01:09:57.540 and thank you everyone for your questions and contributions 01:09:57.540 --> 01:10:02.362 (Applause) 01:10:02.362 --> 01:10:06.640 I'm now going to ask one speaker from each side to sum up, 01:10:06.640 --> 01:10:08.780 and to deal with the points that you've made 01:10:08.790 --> 01:10:13.076 and to make their final pitch for your votes. 01:10:13.076 --> 01:10:18.801 So, first of all, I will ask our speakers against the motion to sum up. 01:10:19.320 --> 01:10:20.973 You've got 5 minutes. 01:10:20.973 --> 01:10:21.779 (Allan Päll) Alright, thank you very much. 01:10:21.779 --> 01:10:24.505 I'm also very happy to hear the different nuances 01:10:24.505 --> 01:10:28.418 and different arguments raised, and I think that the question -- 01:10:28.418 --> 01:10:31.037 questioning the very question itself is a good one, 01:10:31.762 --> 01:10:34.040 because it is difficult to pin down. 01:10:34.270 --> 01:10:38.919 I would perhaps like to start with the broadest question, in terms of 01:10:38.919 --> 01:10:43.167 what would the 22nd century skills be? 01:10:43.167 --> 01:10:46.401 And unless the world will change completely 01:10:46.401 --> 01:10:49.871 or we will run out of resources on the planet, 01:10:49.871 --> 01:10:51.775 or we will have a nuclear war, 01:10:51.775 --> 01:10:53.681 potentially, it will look similar, 01:10:54.071 --> 01:10:56.742 but it could also be that we are just vegetables 01:10:56.742 --> 01:11:01.705 plugged into a matrix-like singularity that some are predicting. 01:11:01.705 --> 01:11:05.212 And then, of course, it would be completely different, because 01:11:05.212 --> 01:11:07.789 there would be no physical interaction. 01:11:07.982 --> 01:11:12.920 So our mind needs to be open for even fundamental, more fundamental changes 01:11:12.920 --> 01:11:14.940 than we can even imagine. 01:11:15.179 --> 01:11:19.436 However, I think there was a -- one important reflection indeed, 01:11:19.436 --> 01:11:24.399 about how do we teach and what is the pedagogy 01:11:24.399 --> 01:11:27.291 used in hour educational system. 01:11:27.539 --> 01:11:32.272 I think our main problem, if we are to look anyone who is to be blamed, 01:11:32.272 --> 01:11:37.560 is that -- is not education itself, is not the educators or the teachers, 01:11:37.560 --> 01:11:42.638 but it may be indeed in this obsession with standards, standardized testing 01:11:42.977 --> 01:11:47.827 and also indeed, I would even go to argue, with qualifications. 01:11:47.827 --> 01:11:52.250 Yes, you might say, we want to be sure that you, as an engineer, 01:11:52.250 --> 01:11:55.524 are properly qualified, or as a doctor. 01:11:55.524 --> 01:12:00.726 Yes, we need to be sure that you have made -- have a certain set of skills 01:12:00.726 --> 01:12:02.685 to be able to perform that job. 01:12:02.685 --> 01:12:07.596 But then again, perhaps, the way that we conduct learning 01:12:07.596 --> 01:12:12.141 is not recognizing the fact that learning is not something 01:12:12.141 --> 01:12:15.520 that an educational institution can have a monopoly over. 01:12:15.991 --> 01:12:20.824 And thus, maybe, we need to open that up much more and say that 01:12:20.824 --> 01:12:25.519 we need to recognize any kind of competences, skills, values 01:12:25.519 --> 01:12:27.744 that you gain anywhere. 01:12:27.744 --> 01:12:33.762 So I think -- I think in terms of building that critical thinking, 01:12:33.762 --> 01:12:38.923 which I do think is important, and which has existed throughout centuries 01:12:38.923 --> 01:12:41.364 and is needed for the future as well, 01:12:41.364 --> 01:12:46.184 that if we want to make sure that it is better done. 01:12:46.184 --> 01:12:50.440 We really need to look at, OK, let's recognize that this happens everywhere 01:12:50.828 --> 01:12:54.279 and let's also see that we don't need to ignore the subject matter 01:12:54.279 --> 01:12:59.052 but use participative methods of teaching and learning in our environment. 01:12:59.052 --> 01:13:01.748 And that's where the difference comes from. 01:13:01.748 --> 01:13:08.642 But however, I do believe that the very standard academic methods 01:13:08.642 --> 01:13:15.319 are still giving us the basic abilities for things like critical thinking. 01:13:16.869 --> 01:13:18.240 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 01:13:18.240 --> 01:13:22.493 (Moderator) Thank you. OK? (Applause) 01:13:22.493 --> 01:13:25.634 If you want to you got a couple of minutes to ...... NOTE Paragraph 01:13:26.770 --> 01:13:31.518 (Berry) Very briefly, a couple of other things worth saying, I think, 01:13:31.518 --> 01:13:33.084 in addition to what Allan said. 01:13:33.928 --> 01:13:39.190 Trust schools! Actually, so much of what we heard about here 01:13:39.639 --> 01:13:42.415 happens in the day to day life of the classroom. 01:13:42.415 --> 01:13:46.010 What does school do, yes, it is about education, 01:13:46.010 --> 01:13:49.177 this passing on of knowledge to the next generation. 01:13:49.177 --> 01:13:52.065 But it's also about building character, 01:13:52.065 --> 01:13:55.350 it's also about young people having that experience 01:13:55.350 --> 01:13:59.622 of getting on with one another and working collaboratively, 01:13:59.622 --> 01:14:01.063 of working creatively. 01:14:01.063 --> 01:14:08.240 Much of what we are labeling perhaps as 21st century skills is happening. 01:14:08.240 --> 01:14:10.404 Teachers are committed to this sort of thing, 01:14:10.404 --> 01:14:14.831 this happens in most of the classrooms, length and breadth of most countries, 01:14:14.831 --> 01:14:17.515 apart from when the testing gets in the way, 01:14:17.515 --> 01:14:20.884 as Allan has already made clear that. 01:14:20.884 --> 01:14:22.567 What are the reasons why this has happened? 01:14:22.567 --> 01:14:25.845 Well, in part, it is this sort of preparation for the future. 01:14:25.845 --> 01:14:28.842 If you look back at the start of the 20th century, 01:14:29.288 --> 01:14:32.070 there were newspaper articles, there were magazine articles 01:14:32.070 --> 01:14:35.177 about what should be 20th century skills. 01:14:35.177 --> 01:14:37.360 How many of those are still relevant today? 01:14:37.360 --> 01:14:39.959 I'd say most of those are still relevant today. 01:14:39.959 --> 01:14:40.968 You know, the photography thing: 01:14:41.597 --> 01:14:44.226 yes, we are working with different cameras now 01:14:44.841 --> 01:14:47.642 but the knowledge of what makes a good photograph, 01:14:47.946 --> 01:14:49.994 and the wisdom to discern a good photograph 01:14:49.994 --> 01:14:52.711 from a less good photograph is still just, 01:14:52.711 --> 01:14:55.861 I think is just as important now as it was then. 01:14:56.208 --> 01:15:02.248 So in summary, 21st century skills are being taught in schools. 01:15:02.252 --> 01:15:04.052 We are addressing this. 01:15:04.052 --> 01:15:06.445 But actually, there are much more important things 01:15:06.445 --> 01:15:11.549 that we should be focusing on: knowledge, passing that on to the next generation, 01:15:11.549 --> 01:15:16.310 and character, and yes, values, absolutely right. 01:15:16.310 --> 01:15:18.463 You know, the question about what should we be doing 01:15:18.463 --> 01:15:20.595 in terms of 22nd century skills. 01:15:21.276 --> 01:15:26.470 I suspect the values of respect for one another, of integrity, 01:15:27.420 --> 01:15:31.806 of willingness to be courageous, as I was talking about, 01:15:31.806 --> 01:15:35.855 that's going to be just as important then as it is now. Thank you very much. 01:15:35.855 --> 01:15:40.492 (Applause) (Moderator) Thank you.(Applause) NOTE Paragraph 01:15:40.492 --> 01:15:43.121 OK, I'll now ask our speakers for the motion 01:15:43.121 --> 01:15:45.841 to sum up and you've got 5 minutes. Thank you. NOTE Paragraph 01:15:46.365 --> 01:15:49.464 (Pedro De Bruyckere) I'll say one minute, one answer to one question, 01:15:49.464 --> 01:15:51.422 and then, Jo will conclude. 01:15:51.422 --> 01:15:53.988 But there was a question, "Who is to blame." 01:15:53.988 --> 01:15:55.641 That's easy: we are. 01:15:56.202 --> 01:15:59.025 We are all, because we've fogotten what school is about. 01:15:59.025 --> 01:16:03.556 If you look back what school really means, it means free time. 01:16:04.066 --> 01:16:07.515 If I say this to my son, he will start throwing things, 01:16:07.515 --> 01:16:11.764 but it means free of economic value. 01:16:12.302 --> 01:16:16.840 Because if you go to a hair salon in a school, 01:16:16.840 --> 01:16:22.017 you know it will take much longer time than in a real hair salon, 01:16:22.017 --> 01:16:26.720 because the emphasis is not on earning money, but on learning. 01:16:27.126 --> 01:16:31.808 And today, because of the testings, because of the focus, 01:16:32.153 --> 01:16:36.265 teachers need to to focus on very specific elements 01:16:36.856 --> 01:16:40.399 and we've forgotten what schooling is about, what school is about. 01:16:40.642 --> 01:16:43.792 So if we bring back school, then maybe 01:16:43.792 --> 01:16:47.576 these 21st century skills will be taught again. NOTE Paragraph 01:16:48.513 --> 01:16:53.537 (Moderator) Thank you. Jo. (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 01:16:53.537 --> 01:16:58.550 (Jo Swinson) So, I firstly want to answer a question that Miles asked, which was 01:16:58.550 --> 01:17:01.362 "Who uses a spreadsheet to plan a party?" 01:17:01.729 --> 01:17:05.457 I would just say that anyone that asks that question has never planned a wedding. 01:17:05.825 --> 01:17:08.722 (Laughter) 01:17:09.515 --> 01:17:17.458 I think it was -- a guy at the back said: "Most people are not in this room." 01:17:17.458 --> 01:17:19.709 And that is actually part of the problem. 01:17:19.960 --> 01:17:23.373 Because if the world was like the people in this room, 01:17:23.373 --> 01:17:26.505 i don't think there'd be such concern, I think that we would be able 01:17:26.505 --> 01:17:29.903 to stand here and say that 21st century skills are being taught. 01:17:30.236 --> 01:17:33.553 You know, going round the exhibitions, seeing the innovation, the creativity, 01:17:33.923 --> 01:17:35.445 it's really inspiring. 01:17:35.800 --> 01:17:38.300 But I think we all know from our own experience 01:17:38.300 --> 01:17:41.119 that the world out there isn't quite as enlightened. 01:17:41.395 --> 01:17:45.728 And the measurement is a stifling problem. 01:17:45.728 --> 01:17:47.062 What gets measured gets done. 01:17:47.062 --> 01:17:51.185 So of course, if you have endless testing, then teachers will teach to the test, and -- 01:17:51.727 --> 01:17:53.923 I noted the reference to Michael Gove: 01:17:53.923 --> 01:17:55.506 I'd just like to just say for the record: 01:17:55.506 --> 01:17:58.955 I was a part of the coalition trying to rein him in at that point. 01:17:59.849 --> 01:18:03.664 And I think Elijah talked about the values in organizations, 01:18:03.664 --> 01:18:06.564 and how the values even of our societies is changing. 01:18:06.880 --> 01:18:11.034 I think that's right and it's important -- I think it's exciting. 01:18:11.034 --> 01:18:14.235 We are moving to an age where there is far less deference: 01:18:14.235 --> 01:18:17.865 that has its challenges in ll sorts of walks of life, from anchors 01:18:17.865 --> 01:18:20.663 to medicine, to politics, to the media. 01:18:20.663 --> 01:18:22.800 But I also think it's a positive development 01:18:22.800 --> 01:18:25.790 that people can make their critical analysis 01:18:25.790 --> 01:18:28.776 of the institutions around us, rather than assuming that 01:18:28.776 --> 01:18:31.352 if somebody is in authority, then they must be right. 01:18:31.909 --> 01:18:35.154 Even in the business world, there is a move towards more collaboration 01:18:35.154 --> 01:18:37.196 rather than just pure competition. 01:18:37.196 --> 01:18:41.272 The pursuit of profit is still important, but conversations ..... (check) purpose 01:18:41.272 --> 01:18:43.313 are also increasingly heard. 01:18:43.654 --> 01:18:46.134 And I think that the leadership models 01:18:46.134 --> 01:18:49.109 that are now experienced and valued the most 01:18:49.109 --> 01:18:51.530 are not the ones about just in a military style, 01:18:51.530 --> 01:18:52.795 telling people what to do, 01:18:52.795 --> 01:18:55.293 but actually about working with individuals, 01:18:55.293 --> 01:18:58.439 to lead them and motivate them, and get the best out of a team. 01:18:58.720 --> 01:19:00.864 And this has an impact for all of our careers paths. 01:19:00.864 --> 01:19:03.954 You don't just go into one job and stay there for 40 years. 01:19:03.954 --> 01:19:08.567 And therefore we need to change the way we are preparing people for this world. 01:19:08.567 --> 01:19:13.675 A lady in the audience mentioned that we are, as human beings, naturally adaptive, 01:19:13.675 --> 01:19:18.369 and I would agree we are, but we need to be helped to do that even more, 01:19:18.369 --> 01:19:21.078 because we do need to adapt more than we did 01:19:21.078 --> 01:19:23.999 when we stayed in one job for 40 years in our career. 01:19:24.622 --> 01:19:27.993 So that lifelong learning is actually so important. 01:19:27.993 --> 01:19:30.836 By all means, we should talk about what happens in the education system 01:19:30.836 --> 01:19:34.611 but it's just as important for, when we're all here in 20 years time 01:19:34.611 --> 01:19:38.515 and we are, you know, trying to keep track of the world that has suddenly developed. 01:19:38.515 --> 01:19:41.251 We need to find a way of staying up to date. 01:19:41.256 --> 01:19:45.517 So, can these skills be taught? How can these skills be taught? 01:19:45.517 --> 01:19:46.947 Well, they absolutely have to be taught 01:19:46.947 --> 01:19:48.929 so we need to figure out the answers to that. 01:19:48.929 --> 01:19:53.166 People need to acquire these skills and they will need help to do it. 01:19:53.166 --> 01:19:55.315 But that teaching can come from a range of sources. 01:19:55.315 --> 01:19:59.989 Of course, the formal education system but also parents and our peers 01:19:59.989 --> 01:20:03.015 and indeed I would argue, particularly to the point, in some dimension, 01:20:03.015 --> 01:20:05.144 about all the people in the audience, 01:20:05.144 --> 01:20:08.312 I think, ultimately, one of the ways 21st century skills will be taught 01:20:08.312 --> 01:20:10.159 will be from our children and grandchildren. 01:20:10.159 --> 01:20:17.314 Thank you. (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 01:20:17.314 --> 01:20:19.312 (Moderator) Thank you for that, Jo and Pedro, 01:20:19.312 --> 01:20:23.593 and thank you to all our speakers and thank you for your contributions. NOTE Paragraph 01:20:24.560 --> 01:20:30.703 We'll now take a vote on this, so would all those in favor of the motion: 01:20:30.703 --> 01:20:35.639 "This house believes 21st century skills aren't being taught and they should be." 01:20:35.639 --> 01:20:40.407 please raise their hand, in the singular: one hand each. 01:20:41.534 --> 01:20:44.408 Right.That's all those in favor. 01:20:45.123 --> 01:20:47.047 And all those against. 01:20:47.741 --> 01:20:50.515 (Inaudible off voice - laughter) NOTE Paragraph 01:20:50.515 --> 01:20:55.367 (Moderator) That's not -- that is very close but I would say that -- 01:20:56.785 --> 01:21:01.548 that the motion is lost on that. (hooting and clapping) 01:21:01.548 --> 01:21:04.519 I would say I would be happy to -- but only just. 01:21:04.519 --> 01:21:06.955 That's very, very narrow vote. NOTE Paragraph 01:21:06.955 --> 01:21:10.944 So thank you very much indeed for all your contributions 01:21:10.944 --> 01:21:16.478 and your attention, and I have a number of announcements just to make, actually. NOTE Paragraph 01:21:17.366 --> 01:21:23.724 Just to remind you that the Online Educa OEB party, the Weihnachts Fest 01:21:23.724 --> 01:21:28.818 will take place and the tickets are on sale at the reception. 01:21:28.818 --> 01:21:32.504 It will take place tonight, there'll be food, drink 01:21:32.504 --> 01:21:36.685 and 25 liters of fake snow. (Laughter) 01:21:36.685 --> 01:21:38.804 So that's something to look forward to. NOTE Paragraph 01:21:39.259 --> 01:21:42.590 The other thing is that many of you will remember 01:21:42.590 --> 01:21:47.265 our dear friend and colleague Jay Cross, who died recently. 01:21:47.265 --> 01:21:51.579 And Jay was one of the real stars of OEB in the past. 01:21:51.579 --> 01:21:56.610 And I know that he was a great friend to many people who attend this conference 01:21:56.610 --> 01:22:00.562 and there is going to be a special session which will take place now 01:22:00.562 --> 01:22:08.242 in room Potsdam 1, which will look at Jay Cross's legacy in person and in print 01:22:08.242 --> 01:22:10.918 and this session will feature Jay's colleagues 01:22:10.918 --> 01:22:15.173 from the Internet Time Alliance, who will remember his influence 01:22:15.173 --> 01:22:16.637 and present his legacy. 01:22:16.637 --> 01:22:21.624 So I do hope you'll take the opportunity to go along and take part in that session. NOTE Paragraph 01:22:21.624 --> 01:22:24.450 Thank you all very much indeed, Ladies and Gentlemen. 01:22:24.450 --> 01:22:26.318 (Applause) 01:22:29.068 --> 01:22:32.927 (Soft music) 01:22:32.927 --> 01:22:35.997 [Recordings of this session will be uploaded to www.online-educa.com] 01:22:35.997 --> 01:22:39.427 [Recording is provided by Presentations 200 Making Video Reality]