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(Sound off till 0:39, 
actual session starts at 2:04)

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(Indistinct conversations)

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(Moderator) So we've got one hour
and a quarter.

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(confused voices)

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How do we know
when these things are going to be turned on?

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(confused voices)

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What? OK? Right.

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(Moderator) Ladies and Genltemen, 
can I ask everyone

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to take their seats, please?

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We're about to begin, 
so if you're visiting the bar,

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can you charge your glasses and return 
to your seats, and then we'll begin.

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We've got an hour and a quarter
for this debate.

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OK, can I -- Welcome everybody to
the Online Educa OEB debate.

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I'm not sure what number this is
in the series of debates that we've had,

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I think it may be getting up to our 10th.

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What I can tell you is that in the time
that we've been having these debates

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and that I've been chairing them, 
my eyesight has now gone so bad

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that I can't possibly read any notes
that I have without using glasses, so

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I think we must be on at least our 10th.

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What I can also tell you is that 
Online Educa itself, OEB,

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this year is celebrating 
its 21st anniversary.

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So I think that perhaps deserves
a round of applause.

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So happy birthday to Online Educa --
(Applause) -- this fantastic conference.

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And 21 years ago was a very difficult --
very different world indeed,

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when one thinks about the scale and scope
of change that there --

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that has taken place in the last 21 years.

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One statistic I was reading recently was 
that in the UK, in 1994, 21 years ago,

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there were only 67 mobile phones
per 1000 people.

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But only ten years later, in 2004,

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there were more mobiles in the UK 
than people.

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And that pattern of spread 
of mobile communications alone

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has spread across the world and 
in Africa, for instance,

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those of you who have been to 
Elearning Africa will have heard about

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the spread of mobile communications
across the African continent.

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So in terms of the scale 
of technological change,

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and the spread of that change 
across the world,

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the change in that short period of time,
in these past 21 years alone,

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has been enormous, and we heard about

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the scale of it in the opening 
plenary session this morning.

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We live in a world that is globalized,
interconnected, hyperlinked

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and that scale of change that we're 
experiencing and have experienced

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in the last 21 years, is going to
gather pace and continue.

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And all that is going to create a huge 
challenge for education and training,

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which is going to be at the heart

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of dealing with both the positive and 
negative aspects of that change.

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And that's why the motion that we're 
dealing with today, in this debate,

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is so important, and why the whole subject
of giving young people the skills

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that they need to cope with 
the challenges of this new world

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that we all are going to --
that we are creating, is so important.

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We've got four speakers, 
four panel speakers

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to open the debate this evening

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and I'm going to ask each of them 
to speak for 10 minutes,

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and then I'm going to --

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-- two of them will speak for the motion, 
obviously,and two against --

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then I will throw open the debate 
to all of you,

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but if you want to intervene
whilst they are speaking,

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because we're having 
a parliamentary-style debate,

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then you can try to intervene on them

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and if they want to take 
your intervention,

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then they can do so, but it will be
entirely up to you.

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And if they don't, then you can draw
whatever conclusions you want from that.

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But I want to ensure that 
we keep the flow going,

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so I'm not going to let you bully them
but I'm going to allow you,

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if you want to make a particular point,

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or if you want to make 
a short intervention, to do so.

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Then after they've spoken, we'll
throw open the debate to the floor

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and you can make your contribution,

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but do please realize that time 
is of the essence,

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so please try to keep it short and 
to the point, succinct.

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This is the kind of debate equivalent
of texting.

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So, no long rambling contributions,

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because I will cut you off 
if you try to do that.

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So, very short contributions, please.

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And then I'll ask each of our --
I'll ask one speaker from each side

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to sum up, and then we will take a vote,
and we'll do that by a show of hands.

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And I've also made it clear 
to all the speakers that they may

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say things that they don't necessarily 
want to be held to in the future,

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so I hope that you will understand that,

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that this is an opportunity for us 
to explore some of the issues,

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but don't take it all too seriously,

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and don't come and accuse people of saying
things that you would --

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that they might not necessarily always 
want to be held to.

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With that in mind, I'm going to ask
our first speaker, who is Jo Swinson.

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Jo Swinson, who is the former Minister
for business, innovation and skills

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in the UK's coalition government of
2010 to 2015,

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to speak first for the motion.

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And Jo, since leaving Parliament, 
has begun a new career

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and is involved in an award within
a data intelligence company

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called Clear Returns

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and she is an expert on the challenges 
and opportunities of the digital age.

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So, over to you, Jo.

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(Jo Swinson) Thank you very much indeed,
Harold.

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And I'm absolutely delighted to be here
in Berlin at OEB.

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A bit of a first, actually, the first
technology-related conference

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that I've been to where there is a queue
in the ladies' loos!

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I have to say I was particularly pleased 
by that, not only as a feminist,

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but also as a Brit who appreciates
the art of queuing.

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So it was good on two fronts.

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So, "This house believes that 
21st century skills aren't being taught,

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"and they should be." is the motion
that I want to convince you

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to support this evening.

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We absolutely need to be equipping
our young people,

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and indeed, people at every stage
of their lives,

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with the skills that they need 
for the 21st century.

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And our education systems, 
and our wider society,

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have an important role to play in this.

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But I will put it to you, this evening,
that when it comes to technical skills,

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when it comes to social skills,
and vitally,

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when it comes to capacity 
to embrace change,

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we are not yet rising to that challenge
sufficiently.

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There are very specific skills, 
there are gaps in science and technology

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that are not being properly filled.

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These shortages are causing
significant problems

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for businesses, for employers.

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Half of engineering companies say that
they have delayed taking forward

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new products or services, because 
they have vacancies

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that are so hard to fill, because
the skills are not there to recruit.

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Digital start-ups are often in real need
of software developers

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that they cannot find sufficiently.

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And companies of all sizes, grappling with
cybersecurity challenges

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struggle to have the skills that they need
to take on those important issues.

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As Harold mentioned, I'm now a director
of a company called Clear Returns.

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It's been going for about three years,
based in Glasgow, and uses data analytics

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to help retailers understand the problems
they have with product returns

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and therefore successfully cutting 
the costs for retailers,

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and resulting in better 
customer satisfaction.

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But in our technology team of 17 people,
there are 12 different nationalities

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and not one of those people went through
the school education system in the UK,

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because the skills are not up to scratch.

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Now, there have been some improvements
and as to 2014,

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computer science has been introduced into
the curriculum in the UK,

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but that is not the end of the matter,

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because 11% of computer science graduates
are unemployed.

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In fact, that's one of the highest 
unemployment rates

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for any subject discipline,

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at a time when we have a huge shortage
of these very skills.

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Something is going very wrong 
when that is the case.

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And this is not just about
teaching people to code.

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Fashionable though that 
undoubtedly is at the moment

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and it is necessary that we do have 
people who can code.

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But it's not some kind of silver bullet
on its own.

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Actually, it's the building blocks 
that we need to be putting in place,

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the things that lie before you get
to the point of coding,

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the logic, the basic maths, 
enhancing those skills,

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so that people can put 
those building blocks together

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and create an argument or a 
train of thought or a mathematical proof,

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or indeed, a piece of code that will
instruct a machine to do something.

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Yet our maths skills 
are also going backwards.

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A King's College, London, study found that
compared to the 1970's

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young people today are significantly less
well equipped in the field of mathematics.

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And it's also worth pointing out 
that we are missing out,

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when it comes to teaching these skills
on almost half of the population.

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Only one in five A-level physics students
is a girl.

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When it comes to computer science,
that figure drops to 1 in 10.

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Now, it's wonderful to be at 
a technology conference

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where there is a queue 
in the ladies' loos,

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but even at this conference, if you
have a look at the speakers' brochure,

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only 8 of the 35 main speakers are women,
so where are the women?

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We are missing out 
on that important talent

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who are not then getting the skills
that we need for the 21st century

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to enable all of our economies 
to flourish.

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We're also not doing well enough
at the social skills

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which have always been imported --
important,

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and I would argue, are even more so
in the context of the 21st century.

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Employers have long complained that
they get coming into the work place

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are not yet ready for work.

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I have to say there is that thing 
I've observed,

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when new graduates starting out
in the work place

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seem to be allergic to 
using the telephone

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for the purpose it was originally
designed for.

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I've lost count of the number of times
when, speaking to a member of staff

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about the particular project 
that they are trying to make happen,

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and it seems sort of stuck, and I say:

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"And what happened 
when you asked that person about it?"

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"Oh, I sent them an email and
they didn't get back to me."

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You know, for all the wonders that
technology can undoubtedly do

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in helping us in our working life, when
you want to get people to do something,

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an email is very easy to ignore, and it is
much harder to just put to one side

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a face-to-face person or contact, 
or on the telephone.

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And relationships are absolutely critical
to 21st century work places and skills:

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getting things done, collaborating in 
teams, motivating others.

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Yet when we assess children 
and young people in the education system,

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it is genuinely done 
on a pure individual basis,

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not looking at how they are actually
operating within a group setting.

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And when it comes to skills 
in terms of relationships,

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something like personal, social
and health education, which I would argue,

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is absolutely essential to help young
people learn to navigate relationships,

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and important issues like consent
when it comes to sex,

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it's not even compulsory 
in the UK curriculum.

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In a world where ultimation is increasing,

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where jobs that we've already seen through
the Industrial Revolution,

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that manual jobs have been replaced 
by machines,

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that with the next stage of technological
advancement, many, many more,

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in things like accountancy and 
professional services,

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are also going to be replaced 
by algorithms,

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the human social relationship skills
are going to be in even more demand

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and therefore deserve much more attention.

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And my final point is that we have not 
done enough to prepare people

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for the world of change.

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A little while ago, I spoke at a School
Award ceremony to 12-year olds

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And I was to explain to them 
how the world had changed

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since I was there age.

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And one of the examples I used was
the process of taking a photograph.

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And I described how, when I was 12,
you would have a thing called a camera

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that was all that it did, it was just
for taking photographs,

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you would have to get a piece of film,
physically,

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to load it into the camera machine,
you'd had to do that pretty carefully,

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because you didn't want to expose the film
and it was quite a fiddly process.

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You wouldn't know whether the photos
you were taking were any good.

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You would have to take at least 24, 
or sometimes 36,

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depending on which particular 
piece of film you put into your camera,

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before you would then take it along
to a pharmacist's or a chemist's shop,

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pay some money and then go and do
something else for a few days,

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at which point you could come back
and be presented

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with your little envelope of photographs,

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and see if any of them had turned out OK.

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And I was counting on these 12-year olds
looked at me (check)

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like I might well be lying to the,: 
this is how it worked,

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because of course these days, you know,
within a matter of seconds,

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you can take dozens of selfies 
in your phone,

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apply however many Instagram filters
you like,

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and share it with the entire world,
just without leaving the spot.

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The pace of change is accelerating hugely.

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Here in 2015, for us to consider 
what even are 21st century skills,

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is like going back to 1915 and trying
to imagine the space race, nuclear power,

226
00:16:56,487 --> 00:17:00,722
the internet, or the kind of social change
going from a situation

227
00:17:00,722 --> 00:17:02,727
where women didn't even have the vote,

228
00:17:02,727 --> 00:17:05,582
to electing a woman as Prime Minister 
in the UK,

229
00:17:05,582 --> 00:17:08,341
or the change with gay rights,

230
00:17:08,341 --> 00:17:11,929
or the ending of racial segregation
in the United States.

231
00:17:12,238 --> 00:17:16,247
We can't even conceive of all that 
the 21st century is going to bring.

232
00:17:16,516 --> 00:17:20,640
And so, more than anything, with 
this huge pace of increasing knowledge,

233
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,056
more than anything, what we need to do
is equip people

234
00:17:24,056 --> 00:17:28,003
to cope with and thrive 
on change and uncertainty.

235
00:17:28,582 --> 00:17:33,039
And instead, we have bunches of kids being 
processed through the education system

236
00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:36,771
that doesn't look that different
to several decades ago.

237
00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:41,168
So we really do have a problem here,
in terms of the skills

238
00:17:41,168 --> 00:17:45,117
that we are teaching and more importantly,
not teaching well enough.

239
00:17:45,870 --> 00:17:49,130
Whether it's technical skills, 
whether it's those social skills

240
00:17:49,130 --> 00:17:53,035
or whether it's the vitally important
ability to be resilient,

241
00:17:53,035 --> 00:17:55,155
to recover from change and setbacks,

242
00:17:55,155 --> 00:17:59,355
and to apply yourself in a new way 
to a new set of challenges and horizons.

243
00:17:59,355 --> 00:18:01,841
These are the things 
we must be focusing on,

244
00:18:01,841 --> 00:18:04,309
and we aren't yet rising 
to that challenge.

245
00:18:04,619 --> 00:18:05,840
Support the motion!

246
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:15,626
(Applause)

247
00:18:16,081 --> 00:18:18,406
(Moderator) OK, thank you very much
for that, Jo.

248
00:18:19,052 --> 00:18:24,908
Our next speaker, who is going to speak
against the motion, is Allan Päll,

249
00:18:25,297 --> 00:18:28,852
who is the Secretary General of 
the European Youth Forum,

250
00:18:28,852 --> 00:18:33,041
which is the representative body
for youth organisations in Europe

251
00:18:33,041 --> 00:18:35,400
and he is an advocate for youth's rights.

252
00:18:35,994 --> 00:18:41,296
He lead student unions in Estonia and
at the European level, and has advocated

253
00:18:41,296 --> 00:18:46,055
for students' voices to be included
in educational policy. Allan, up to you:

254
00:18:46,055 --> 00:18:48,464
(Allan Päll) All right, 
thank you very much, chair.

255
00:18:48,464 --> 00:18:53,489
I would like to very much support many
of the claims made by our opposition.

256
00:18:53,489 --> 00:18:58,041
However, when it comes to the question
and when it comes to this specific motion,

257
00:18:58,041 --> 00:19:03,378
this house does not believe that 
21st century skills aren't being taught,

258
00:19:03,378 --> 00:19:06,958
because, well, let me put it very bluntly
and very simply:

259
00:19:06,958 --> 00:19:13,884
the whole notion of what are 21st century
skills is often just a bunch of nonsense,

260
00:19:13,884 --> 00:19:16,108
if I would sum it up very briefly.

261
00:19:16,108 --> 00:19:18,675
But let me go into it a bit more.

262
00:19:18,675 --> 00:19:22,837
There are many definitions of
what these skills could be

263
00:19:22,837 --> 00:19:28,347
and I fully agree that they do include
everything mentioned by the opposition.

264
00:19:28,755 --> 00:19:32,057
However, there are many other ways
of looking at it.

265
00:19:32,057 --> 00:19:35,846
So if we are to say whether these are 
being taught or not,

266
00:19:35,846 --> 00:19:41,083
even if we have a problem of the very
definition of what these skills are,

267
00:19:41,083 --> 00:19:45,968
how can we say that they are 
not being taught so determinedly?

268
00:19:46,913 --> 00:19:52,993
Some of the elements that can be 
mentioned as 21st century skills

269
00:19:52,993 --> 00:19:58,632
are simple things, as critical thinking,
problem-solving, reasoning, analysis,

270
00:19:58,632 --> 00:20:04,394
research skills, creativity, curiosity,
perseverance, self-direction

271
00:20:04,394 --> 00:20:07,850
oral and written communication,
leadership,

272
00:20:07,850 --> 00:20:13,008
information and communication technology,
social justice, literacy,

273
00:20:13,008 --> 00:20:20,833
civic, ethical behavior, global awareness:
the list goes on and on and on.

274
00:20:20,833 --> 00:20:26,846
So, indeed, many of those things, perhaps,
are not being taught enough,

275
00:20:26,846 --> 00:20:30,432
or specifically enough, 
in our educational systems.

276
00:20:30,432 --> 00:20:35,163
But that doesn't mean that 
this is not happening.

277
00:20:35,166 --> 00:20:37,079
Let me ask you one simple question:

278
00:20:37,079 --> 00:20:41,822
If you believe that we don't acquire
many of these skills

279
00:20:41,822 --> 00:20:46,710
in our educational environment, 
be it in a formal setting

280
00:20:46,710 --> 00:20:51,190
or a socializing moment 
in your school or at university,

281
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:58,523
would we actually witness the pace
of change in society that we are seeing?

282
00:20:58,523 --> 00:21:02,150
Almost all of us have gone through 
the educational system.

283
00:21:02,150 --> 00:21:07,271
So, we must get a lot of those skills
also through that.

284
00:21:07,503 --> 00:21:11,507
I do agree, though, 
that there is something to be said about

285
00:21:11,507 --> 00:21:17,118
the question of how specific are we
when we look at those skills.

286
00:21:17,118 --> 00:21:20,164
Because that is true that most curricula --

287
00:21:20,534 --> 00:21:26,311
education is very much compartmentalized
into very specific subject areas

288
00:21:26,311 --> 00:21:30,659
and we're seeing an increasing trend
of those subject areas becoming

289
00:21:30,659 --> 00:21:32,762
more and more specific.

290
00:21:32,762 --> 00:21:38,076
And thus indeed, there is perhaps
not enough emphasis on looking at,

291
00:21:38,076 --> 00:21:43,764
or thinking really about are we acquiring
all those sets of skills

292
00:21:43,764 --> 00:21:49,279
that are important for our socialization,
etc., our technical skills as well,

293
00:21:49,279 --> 00:21:51,421
as mentioned by the opposition.

294
00:21:51,985 --> 00:21:55,397
One of the things that I would like
to highlight is that

295
00:21:55,397 --> 00:21:59,911
the schools and universities, and
vocational education and training

296
00:21:59,911 --> 00:22:04,076
is not only about the formal 
learning outcomes

297
00:22:04,076 --> 00:22:07,922
that we are beginning to measure 
more and more.

298
00:22:07,922 --> 00:22:14,143
It is also about the social environment
at that very school or university

299
00:22:14,143 --> 00:22:17,671
that determines a lot of 
what education gives us.

300
00:22:18,274 --> 00:22:22,521
In terms of specific skills 
that were mentioned by opposition

301
00:22:22,521 --> 00:22:28,678
and the lack of those skills, there are
many variables perhaps to look at.

302
00:22:28,678 --> 00:22:32,486
Yes indeed, we are missing out 
on engineers,

303
00:22:32,486 --> 00:22:39,541
we are missing out on also 
staff in medical sciences, in care.

304
00:22:39,541 --> 00:22:41,549
We would need indeed many more people

305
00:22:41,549 --> 00:22:46,036
to have those qualifications, 
perhaps, indeed.

306
00:22:46,036 --> 00:22:49,831
But there is also a question of
what is education for

307
00:22:49,831 --> 00:22:53,668
and what are the requirements 
on the labor market.

308
00:22:53,668 --> 00:22:56,916
And those two things, 
although they interact,

309
00:22:56,916 --> 00:22:59,181
they move at different paces.

310
00:22:59,181 --> 00:23:06,257
So sometimes, we start to put blame
very easily on the education system

311
00:23:06,257 --> 00:23:10,200
for not delivering specific skills when, 
for example,

312
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,560
the structure of our education

313
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,682
-- sorry, the structure of our economy
has changed.

314
00:23:15,941 --> 00:23:20,286
And I think here, it's an important
remark that we need to look at

315
00:23:20,286 --> 00:23:23,913
different experiences 
of different countries.

316
00:23:24,275 --> 00:23:27,645
And you see countries where 
unemployment levels,

317
00:23:27,645 --> 00:23:31,039
even throughout the financial
economic crises,

318
00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:35,076
were record low, such as in Germany
and Austria.

319
00:23:35,076 --> 00:23:37,925
But if you look at youth 
unemployment figures,

320
00:23:37,925 --> 00:23:42,386
youth unemployment also among 
highly educated young people,

321
00:23:42,386 --> 00:23:48,235
in different areas, like Spain or Greece,
all around the Mediterranean,

322
00:23:48,235 --> 00:23:50,710
they've been staggeringly high.

323
00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:54,136
And it's not because 
the education systems failed,

324
00:23:54,136 --> 00:23:58,196
it's because the macro-economic systems
failed them there,

325
00:23:58,196 --> 00:24:02,359
in terms of not having enough job creation
for all those skills.

326
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:07,844
And of course, there is something
to be said that when we train people

327
00:24:07,844 --> 00:24:10,996
and when we train minds 
to think critically,

328
00:24:10,996 --> 00:24:16,038
to come up with new and innovative ideas,
we also change the world through that.

329
00:24:16,038 --> 00:24:19,200
So, we need to understand 
that interaction.

330
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,273
but certainly, when we look at 
21st century skills, well,

331
00:24:24,273 --> 00:24:28,914
if we are to define them with this broad
set of lists that I noted,

332
00:24:28,914 --> 00:24:33,975
we certainly are gaining those skills,
but perhaps, not specifically

333
00:24:33,975 --> 00:24:37,045
and not enough: that, we could agree.

334
00:24:37,990 --> 00:24:40,885
When it comes to preparedness for change,

335
00:24:40,885 --> 00:24:46,036
when are we ever prepared 
for the change to come, one might wonder.

336
00:24:46,696 --> 00:24:51,043
Indeed, things, technologically, 
are changing very fast.

337
00:24:51,043 --> 00:24:55,706
And maybe our educational systems
are not embracing that technology

338
00:24:55,706 --> 00:24:58,106
at the same pace.

339
00:24:58,106 --> 00:25:01,631
But that doesn't mean that 
if we would embrace

340
00:25:01,631 --> 00:25:06,562
the use of that technology very quickly,
that it would enhance immediately

341
00:25:06,562 --> 00:25:10,560
the skills that we can describe as
21st century skills,

342
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,683
such as, for example, critical thinking.

343
00:25:13,683 --> 00:25:15,517
There are many advocates that say

344
00:25:15,517 --> 00:25:19,640
that we need to replace 
subject matter teaching completely

345
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,469
with horizontal level approaches.

346
00:25:22,469 --> 00:25:23,705
But that doesn't work.

347
00:25:23,705 --> 00:25:28,479
If we don't know the facts, how do we know
that we are on the right path

348
00:25:28,479 --> 00:25:33,289
with our decisions, how can we know
what really happened in the past,

349
00:25:33,289 --> 00:25:36,648
and not, how can we verify what is true?

350
00:25:36,648 --> 00:25:41,481
So when we look at the skills, we need
to look at the evidences

351
00:25:41,481 --> 00:25:45,792
in terms of teaching preparedness 
and pedagogy.

352
00:25:45,792 --> 00:25:49,376
And yes, we agree: there is a lot 
to be done there

353
00:25:49,376 --> 00:25:55,527
in terms of measuring those essential
skills of socialization and communication,

354
00:25:55,527 --> 00:26:00,133
building relationships, and it is true 
that around, it's estimated,

355
00:26:00,133 --> 00:26:03,993
around 50% of jobs in the service sector

356
00:26:03,993 --> 00:26:09,275
are about to disappear in the next 
20 years and transform, hopefully,

357
00:26:09,275 --> 00:26:11,476
into something completely new.

358
00:26:11,476 --> 00:26:19,198
Finally, indeed, those skills, 
we can all agree,

359
00:26:19,198 --> 00:26:20,434
we need those skills.

360
00:26:21,074 --> 00:26:24,849
But there is an important element
of young people,

361
00:26:24,849 --> 00:26:28,067
and this is a study that we have done
in the European Youth Forum,

362
00:26:28,067 --> 00:26:34,725
that they gain a lot of those skills also
outside, in non-formal education settings.

363
00:26:34,725 --> 00:26:39,162
And the key here is to see if we can bring
those experiences

364
00:26:39,162 --> 00:26:42,382
that young people gain from youth 
organizations, activism,

365
00:26:42,382 --> 00:26:47,061
into the formal education setting, 
and thus make it much more open

366
00:26:47,061 --> 00:26:53,790
to recognizing those prior experiences
as well, to overcome this shortage.

367
00:26:53,790 --> 00:26:54,909
Thank you very much.

368
00:26:54,909 --> 00:27:02,481
(Applause)

369
00:27:02,481 --> 00:27:04,074
(Moderator) Thank you very much, Allan.

370
00:27:04,074 --> 00:27:09,186
Our next speaker who is going to speak
for the motion is Pedro De Bruyckere

371
00:27:10,434 --> 00:27:13,593
who is an educational scientist

372
00:27:13,593 --> 00:27:17,806
and he has worked in Ghent in Belgium 
since 2001.

373
00:27:17,806 --> 00:27:23,932
He co-wrote two books which debunk
popular myths on generation Y

374
00:27:23,932 --> 00:27:25,501
and generation Z,

375
00:27:25,501 --> 00:27:30,513
and the latest one was entitled 
"I was 10 in 2015". Pedro:

376
00:27:31,483 --> 00:27:34,230
(Pedro De Bruyckere) OK. Good evening.

377
00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:38,397
I'm a teacher, I'm a teacher trainer,
so I'm not used to standing still.

378
00:27:38,397 --> 00:27:41,796
So if you don't mind, I will move.

379
00:27:42,474 --> 00:27:46,220
Allan, thank you very much for
making my point.

380
00:27:46,810 --> 00:27:50,846
I have to explain: I have to agree,
I've written a book about it,

381
00:27:50,846 --> 00:27:54,557
there's no such thing 
as 21st century skills.

382
00:27:55,171 --> 00:27:57,355
And that's why they need to be taught.

383
00:27:58,164 --> 00:27:59,357
I have to explain this.

384
00:27:59,357 --> 00:28:05,561
You know, if we go back in time, to see
the origins of the 21st century skills,

385
00:28:05,561 --> 00:28:09,846
you'll end up with the liberal arts,
the Septem Artes Liberales.

386
00:28:10,329 --> 00:28:14,915
Rhetoric, what we are doing right here,
that's for me ancient history,

387
00:28:14,915 --> 00:28:16,239
but still needed today.

388
00:28:17,023 --> 00:28:21,267
But the question is, 
is this still being taught in school?

389
00:28:21,576 --> 00:28:27,271
Because, like ....... (check name) says,
moreover we get a focus on the Three R's

390
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,639
-- Reading, 'Riting, 'Rithmetics --

391
00:28:30,639 --> 00:28:35,042
while most of the young people are
looking to Snapchats.

392
00:28:35,734 --> 00:28:41,542
But because of the focus, 
because we want to test stuff,

393
00:28:42,759 --> 00:28:46,077
the more important things 
are being forgotten!

394
00:28:46,637 --> 00:28:50,231
Rhetoric, philosophy, for me, crucial.

395
00:28:51,616 --> 00:28:54,493
To be honest, then, you don't have to look
at Ancient Times,

396
00:28:54,493 --> 00:28:56,562
than you have to look at Medieval Times,

397
00:28:56,562 --> 00:28:59,810
because then philosophy was added
to the Liberal Arts.

398
00:29:00,303 --> 00:29:03,999
So we need to train our children 
because it's great to say:

399
00:29:03,999 --> 00:29:05,990
"Look at us: we've done it."

400
00:29:06,468 --> 00:29:11,905
Yes, but we are not talking about us,
because in 20 years' time, they will --

401
00:29:11,905 --> 00:29:18,068
we will be old, boring and 
other people need to sit there

402
00:29:18,068 --> 00:29:22,237
and beyond stage, using rhetoric.

403
00:29:22,237 --> 00:29:24,162
So we need to prepare them.

404
00:29:25,016 --> 00:29:27,265
I'm not sure if we're doing a great job.

405
00:29:29,414 --> 00:29:31,662
For instance, if we talk about technology,

406
00:29:31,662 --> 00:29:35,361
technology is often like sex ed
in education.

407
00:29:35,361 --> 00:29:38,107
You know, you talk about 
all the dangerous stuff

408
00:29:38,497 --> 00:29:41,719
and you never talk about the fun stuff.

409
00:29:43,837 --> 00:29:47,392
You know, it's very simple:

410
00:29:47,392 --> 00:29:54,239
"Don't do this, don't do that,
certainly don't try that! Go ahead!"

411
00:29:55,709 --> 00:30:00,401
And another -- for instance, McKinsey,
the McKinsey report, 2014 McKinsey report,

412
00:30:00,401 --> 00:30:03,559
said there is
-- and I agree again with you both --

413
00:30:03,559 --> 00:30:04,762
there is a mismatch.

414
00:30:04,762 --> 00:30:08,241
There is a mismatch between 
what children study in school

415
00:30:08,241 --> 00:30:11,599
and which topics they choose,
and what we need in the economy.

416
00:30:12,069 --> 00:30:17,348
But at the same time, the employers said:

417
00:30:17,348 --> 00:30:21,671
"You know, don't train them 
to a specific job

418
00:30:21,671 --> 00:30:26,911
"but train them in strategic 
and communication skills."

419
00:30:27,748 --> 00:30:32,041
OK, they have been around for ages
but they are still important.

420
00:30:32,639 --> 00:30:35,869
But what do we do, for instance,
in many schools?

421
00:30:35,869 --> 00:30:39,322
I've been in schools in Holland, 
in Germany, in --

422
00:30:39,322 --> 00:30:44,106
you know, we teach them how to write
a job application.

423
00:30:44,419 --> 00:30:49,477
We teach them how to perform
a talk for a job.

424
00:30:49,477 --> 00:30:53,781
Do we teach them to write 
a LinkedIn profile?

425
00:30:53,781 --> 00:30:57,618
No, what we say is "Never post
a drunk photo on Facebook,

426
00:30:58,152 --> 00:31:01,299
"because people will search you."

427
00:31:01,299 --> 00:31:03,219
What we don't say is:

428
00:31:03,219 --> 00:31:07,206
"You know what? Post something good 
about yourself on Facebook,

429
00:31:07,206 --> 00:31:09,092
"that isn't a selfie."

430
00:31:09,596 --> 00:31:11,843
But we think well, they will do this.

431
00:31:12,221 --> 00:31:15,451
Actually, for instance research by
Jan van Dek (check):

432
00:31:15,451 --> 00:31:19,235
that's one of the stuff 
that our kids don't know.

433
00:31:19,235 --> 00:31:22,162
And if we don't teach them, who will?

434
00:31:23,033 --> 00:31:28,225
So that's my point: we need to teach them
basic skills like Jo said:

435
00:31:28,225 --> 00:31:30,796
communication skills, strategic skills.

436
00:31:30,796 --> 00:31:35,785
And if you want to call them
21st century skills because, by accident,

437
00:31:35,785 --> 00:31:39,680
we're living in the 21st century,
so be it.

438
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,078
(Applause)
Thank you.

439
00:31:42,078 --> 00:31:49,682
(Applause)

440
00:31:50,211 --> 00:31:52,629
(Moderator) OK, 
thank you very much, Pedro.

441
00:31:53,086 --> 00:31:59,099
Our final speaker who is going to speak
against the motion is Miles Berry,

442
00:31:59,099 --> 00:32:02,846
who is the principal lecturer 
in computing education

443
00:32:02,846 --> 00:32:06,624
at the University of Roehampton in the UK:
Miles.

444
00:32:07,104 --> 00:32:09,122
(Miles Berry) Pleasure to be here,
really is.

445
00:32:09,521 --> 00:32:12,251
Philip and Gudrun, where are you guys?

446
00:32:13,073 --> 00:32:15,322
OK, on the Twitter thing you say:

447
00:32:15,322 --> 00:32:18,883
"We need to talk about what the purpose
of education is, what is education for?"

448
00:32:18,883 --> 00:32:20,385
And that's where I want to start.

449
00:32:20,385 --> 00:32:24,565
I want to move back from the motion, 
to think about what education is for.

450
00:32:24,872 --> 00:32:28,342
And to do that, we need some understanding
of what education is.

451
00:32:28,882 --> 00:32:32,668
I've been in education 
for over 40 years now.

452
00:32:32,907 --> 00:32:35,239
But even so, I checked.

453
00:32:35,239 --> 00:32:40,947
It's the culture or development
of personal knowledge, or understanding,

454
00:32:41,401 --> 00:32:46,426
growth or character, 
moral and social qualities, etc.,

455
00:32:46,712 --> 00:32:50,708
as contrasting with 
the imparting of a skill.

456
00:32:51,045 --> 00:32:53,319
(blurred: check) ... is

457
00:32:53,319 --> 00:32:58,540
OK, there's definitely a place 
for imparting skills,

458
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,904
but that's training, not education,
and there is a difference.

459
00:33:03,904 --> 00:33:08,720
My Roehampton students study education,
but they are trained to teach.

460
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:13,058
England's new computing curriculum
educates people about the principles,

461
00:33:13,058 --> 00:33:18,406
the principles of computer science:
(inaudible: check), I tell you.

462
00:33:18,406 --> 00:33:22,026
(laughter) ... technology, I think 
the technology ran on me tonight,

463
00:33:22,026 --> 00:33:23,446
it's all right I'll give it...

464
00:33:23,446 --> 00:33:25,368
(off) (unintelligible)

465
00:33:25,368 --> 00:33:31,306
(Berry) 21st century skill 
-- on knowledge -- (laughter)

466
00:33:31,306 --> 00:33:35,036
Knowledge that these things are the wrong
shape for my head: never mind.

467
00:33:35,036 --> 00:33:38,605
OK, so: England's new computing curriculum
that Jo has alluded to

468
00:33:38,605 --> 00:33:41,957
educates people about the principles
of computer science,

469
00:33:41,957 --> 00:33:44,684
whereas we used to train them 
to use Office software.

470
00:33:44,684 --> 00:33:46,066
Or think about sex.

471
00:33:46,066 --> 00:33:51,606
Look, not like that: we rightly include
sex education on the curriculum in schools

472
00:33:51,606 --> 00:33:59,856
but we typically don't include training.
(Laughter) Important skills.

473
00:34:02,541 --> 00:34:07,153
Do without the microphones. 
(Laughter) ... very well.

474
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:13,000
In England, our Education Act says
what education is for.

475
00:34:13,550 --> 00:34:18,277
Firstly, it's to promote the spiritual,
moral, cultural, mental and physical

476
00:34:18,277 --> 00:34:21,120
development of pupils and of society.

477
00:34:21,468 --> 00:34:24,669
And it's to prepare pupils 
for the opportunities, responsibilities

478
00:34:24,669 --> 00:34:27,020
and experiences of later life.

479
00:34:27,403 --> 00:34:30,700
What else could education possibly be for?

480
00:34:30,700 --> 00:34:33,763
In that, you just got to love laws
that require you to do

481
00:34:33,763 --> 00:34:35,911
what you'd want to do anyhow.

482
00:34:36,372 --> 00:34:39,835
There does remain a question about
how best to prepare pupils

483
00:34:39,835 --> 00:34:42,641
for these opportunities, responsibilities
and experiences.

484
00:34:43,079 --> 00:34:48,538
I think the nob of the motion this evening
is about whether this should be done

485
00:34:48,538 --> 00:34:51,799
through some sort of training
in 21st century skills

486
00:34:52,153 --> 00:34:56,831
or by passing on the knowledge, 
understanding and wisdom

487
00:34:56,831 --> 00:35:01,265
of our generation to the next and I'd say,
the latter.

488
00:35:01,650 --> 00:35:05,992
I've no problem with skills per se
in teaching.

489
00:35:05,992 --> 00:35:09,669
Behavior management is a skill,
coding is a skill,

490
00:35:09,669 --> 00:35:13,224
so is searching for things on Google,
or even Bing.

491
00:35:13,552 --> 00:35:17,912
OK. I've some problem, though, with the
notion that there are 21st century skills

492
00:35:17,912 --> 00:35:20,033
and I'd agree with you on that.

493
00:35:20,033 --> 00:35:24,074
But both of you have done a fine job
of demolishing that notion already.

494
00:35:24,635 --> 00:35:29,837
I've also some problem with the skills --
with the notion that skills can transfer.

495
00:35:30,318 --> 00:35:33,468
Skills are about accomplishing something.

496
00:35:33,943 --> 00:35:36,644
There's a context to the skills,

497
00:35:36,644 --> 00:35:41,278
and I think we diminish specific skills
by attempting to generalize them.

498
00:35:41,575 --> 00:35:47,409
It isn't critical thinking, 
it's thinking critically about something.

499
00:35:47,737 --> 00:35:52,561
It's not creativity, 
it's creating something.

500
00:35:52,561 --> 00:35:54,238
And it's not communication,

501
00:35:54,238 --> 00:35:58,218
it's communicating something
through some media.

502
00:35:58,683 --> 00:36:00,915
The 'something' here matters.

503
00:36:01,388 --> 00:36:06,712
It's really not possible to teach skills
in the abstract fashion, without context.

504
00:36:06,712 --> 00:36:08,942
And the context is king.

505
00:36:09,495 --> 00:36:11,366
Whatever the specific domain,

506
00:36:11,755 --> 00:36:16,316
knowledge of that domain is necessary
for expert skills.

507
00:36:17,353 --> 00:36:21,341
My main problem, though, is that
we've only a little time in school.

508
00:36:21,341 --> 00:36:25,677
We've other things to teach and
our students have other things to learn:

509
00:36:25,677 --> 00:36:27,372
things like knowledge

510
00:36:27,782 --> 00:36:29,185
and understanding

511
00:36:29,489 --> 00:36:30,647
and wisdom.

512
00:36:31,059 --> 00:36:36,797
Without these, skills are unlikely to be
of much practical benefit.

513
00:36:37,258 --> 00:36:38,846
Stephen Downes is here.

514
00:36:39,564 --> 00:36:45,162
Well, nodding in his direction, I'd say,
learning is about connecting things:

515
00:36:45,162 --> 00:36:47,504
neurons, ideas, people.

516
00:36:47,504 --> 00:36:49,009
The computer scientists get this,

517
00:36:49,009 --> 00:36:54,554
Google's page rank algorithm relies
not so much on the content of the page,

518
00:36:54,554 --> 00:36:56,709
as the links between the pages.

519
00:36:57,052 --> 00:37:01,844
The thing is then, the new stuff has to be
connected to something.

520
00:37:01,844 --> 00:37:05,280
Otherwise, it's just isolated factoids.

521
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,755
We can't make sense of it, 
we can't use new knowledge

522
00:37:09,055 --> 00:37:14,356
unless it's integrated into our existing
mental maps, our schema.

523
00:37:14,667 --> 00:37:18,678
Put simply: it takes knowledge
to gain knowledge.

524
00:37:19,268 --> 00:37:25,268
This apples to each of us as individuals,
but it's also how civilization grows.

525
00:37:25,628 --> 00:37:27,727
Human achievement is a cumulative thing.

526
00:37:27,727 --> 00:37:31,621
New knowledge doesn't normally contradict
what's gone before.

527
00:37:32,211 --> 00:37:33,752
It builds on it.

528
00:37:33,752 --> 00:37:35,880
If Newton saw further than others had,

529
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,123
it was because he stood 
on the shoulders of giants.

530
00:37:39,757 --> 00:37:42,098
What hope would there be 
for the next generation

531
00:37:42,098 --> 00:37:45,715
if they had to discover everything 
afresh for themselves?

532
00:37:46,250 --> 00:37:48,937
The consequence of our building
on what's gone before

533
00:37:48,937 --> 00:37:52,072
is that the pace of cultural, scientific
and technological change

534
00:37:52,072 --> 00:37:54,712
accelerates exponentially.

535
00:37:55,027 --> 00:38:00,210
But even allowing for this acceleration
is knowledge, understanding and wisdom

536
00:38:00,210 --> 00:38:02,191
which have done the test of time.

537
00:38:02,191 --> 00:38:04,391
Less so, skills.

538
00:38:04,391 --> 00:38:09,673
Expect new inventions and discoveries
over the next 85 years

539
00:38:09,673 --> 00:38:12,562
and new practical skills to go with them.

540
00:38:12,881 --> 00:38:17,799
But don't expect the foundational 
shared knowledge of our civilization

541
00:38:17,799 --> 00:38:19,446
to become irrelevant.

542
00:38:19,916 --> 00:38:24,206
Indeed, it's on this very foundation
that the new knowledge will be built.

543
00:38:24,716 --> 00:38:28,729
It's not 21st century skills 
that young people need.

544
00:38:28,729 --> 00:38:32,312
It's 21st century knowledge, understanding
and wisdom.

545
00:38:33,048 --> 00:38:35,991
Time, I think, for a quick case study.

546
00:38:36,674 --> 00:38:40,159
The most successful education systems
and the top universities

547
00:38:40,159 --> 00:38:44,917
seem to organize their curriculum
around well knowledge-based subjects.

548
00:38:44,917 --> 00:38:50,430
England's new National Curriculum is
quite explicitly a knowledge-based one.

549
00:38:50,430 --> 00:38:54,354
It sets out to provide pupils with 
an introduction to the essential knowledge

550
00:38:54,354 --> 00:38:56,287
they need to be educated as citizens,

551
00:38:56,287 --> 00:39:00,401
and to introduce them to the best
which has been thought and said.

552
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,777
One of the most radical things we've done
in that curriculum,

553
00:39:03,777 --> 00:39:06,149
which many see as rather reactionary,

554
00:39:06,149 --> 00:39:10,146
is to have replaced the old ICT 
with a new subject: computing.

555
00:39:10,713 --> 00:39:13,549
This includes an introduction 
to the principles of computer science

556
00:39:13,549 --> 00:39:15,179
for all, from age 5 up.

557
00:39:15,179 --> 00:39:16,996
It has been my privilege 
to be part of the team

558
00:39:16,996 --> 00:39:19,287
designing and implementing
the new subject.

559
00:39:19,602 --> 00:39:23,151
Under the old curriculum we offered
a good grounding in tech skills,

560
00:39:23,151 --> 00:39:25,408
finding this online, 
making a presentation,

561
00:39:25,408 --> 00:39:27,616
typing up stories, articles and reports.

562
00:39:27,616 --> 00:39:33,045
Sometimes, even making a spreadsheet,
often about having a party.

563
00:39:33,708 --> 00:39:36,558
Do people really use spreadsheets
to plan parties?

564
00:39:36,805 --> 00:39:40,933
Are these fun parties? Are these 
-- OK (laughs)

565
00:39:41,502 --> 00:39:44,624
It was fine: pupils moved on to work
or the next phase of education

566
00:39:44,624 --> 00:39:46,725
with some competence and confidence

567
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:49,768
and broadly speaking, were
digitally literate.

568
00:39:50,214 --> 00:39:52,091
Our audit of new students 
at Roehampton's

569
00:39:52,091 --> 00:39:54,525
suggests that broad portfolio skills,
(check)

570
00:39:54,525 --> 00:39:58,103
two thirds regarded themselves as 
competent, proficient or experts.

571
00:39:58,485 --> 00:40:02,478
That said, it was all too often 
a bit -- well, dull.

572
00:40:03,034 --> 00:40:05,912
There's a limit, or at least 
there should be a limit

573
00:40:05,912 --> 00:40:08,274
to the number of times you can 
find something out on the internet

574
00:40:08,274 --> 00:40:10,132
and make a presentation about it.

575
00:40:10,132 --> 00:40:13,995
Generally, it did precious little 
to provide any real knowledge

576
00:40:13,995 --> 00:40:18,957
or understanding of computation, 
information theory or digital technology.

577
00:40:19,327 --> 00:40:24,242
In the same audit, less than 15%
of my new students

578
00:40:24,242 --> 00:40:27,243
rated their understanding of 
digital technology

579
00:40:27,243 --> 00:40:29,792
as competent, proficient or expert.

580
00:40:30,092 --> 00:40:31,478
So we started again.

581
00:40:31,478 --> 00:40:33,933
We built on the idea of computing
as having three elements:

582
00:40:33,933 --> 00:40:37,165
computer science, information technology
and digital literacy,

583
00:40:37,165 --> 00:40:41,200
the foundations, applications and
implications of the discipline.

584
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,469
We took a leaf out of 
William Morris's book:

585
00:40:43,469 --> 00:40:46,732
"Have nothing in your house that
you do not know to be useful

586
00:40:46,732 --> 00:40:48,488
"or believe to be beautiful."

587
00:40:48,488 --> 00:40:51,997
And built a curriculum of things 
that would be useful,

588
00:40:51,997 --> 00:40:54,510
but also things that were interesting.

589
00:40:54,510 --> 00:40:57,647
We took a view that the best way 
to prepare pupils for a future

590
00:40:57,647 --> 00:41:02,708
in which digital technology looks 
quite likely to remain important

591
00:41:02,708 --> 00:41:06,400
was through providing a firm
computer science foundation,

592
00:41:06,735 --> 00:41:12,440
things like logic, algorithms, 
abstraction, networks, programming.

593
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:19,356
Yes, coding would be important, but not
as a vocational skill for the IT industry,

594
00:41:19,356 --> 00:41:22,550
but as the lab work for computing, 
the medium through which

595
00:41:22,550 --> 00:41:25,634
the ideas of computer science are created
and expressed.

596
00:41:25,634 --> 00:41:29,031
Computing became part of our curriculum
15 months ago.

597
00:41:29,338 --> 00:41:32,670
It's early days, but early indications
are very positive.

598
00:41:32,995 --> 00:41:35,803
Teachers' professional development
has been a challenge.

599
00:41:36,325 --> 00:41:41,321
But this hasn't been a challenge about
pedagogical or technical skills.

600
00:41:41,585 --> 00:41:44,631
Teachers know how to teach 
and know how to use technology.

601
00:41:44,631 --> 00:41:47,773
It's just that they didn't know 
much computer science.

602
00:41:47,773 --> 00:41:49,954
They are, by and large, willing to learn,

603
00:41:49,954 --> 00:41:52,509
and many are quite enjoying 
the fast challenge.

604
00:41:53,037 --> 00:41:56,364
I don't want to leave you 
with the idea that I think

605
00:41:56,364 --> 00:41:59,640
knowledge is the only thing
that matters in education.

606
00:41:59,897 --> 00:42:03,441
Of course it isn't: character matters.

607
00:42:03,717 --> 00:42:06,697
I'm talking here about traits
and attitudes,

608
00:42:07,118 --> 00:42:15,045
things such as curiosity and creativity
and courage of our 4-year old daughter.

609
00:42:15,045 --> 00:42:17,357
She's a curious character.

610
00:42:17,357 --> 00:42:21,259
She still has this sense of 
wonder in the world about her,

611
00:42:21,273 --> 00:42:24,115
that sense of Wow when she sees
or hears something new,

612
00:42:24,115 --> 00:42:27,076
and still a willingness to explore,
experiment and play.

613
00:42:27,076 --> 00:42:30,404
She's at a great little primary school
and I shouldn't worry.

614
00:42:30,879 --> 00:42:35,162
But I do worry that her schooling 
might get in the way of her curiosity

615
00:42:35,699 --> 00:42:37,043
when it ought to be nurturing this.

616
00:42:37,043 --> 00:42:39,714
As Plowden had it back in '67,

617
00:42:39,714 --> 00:42:42,672
one of the main educational tasks 
of the primary school

618
00:42:42,672 --> 00:42:47,808
is to build on and strengthen children's
intrinsic interest in learning

619
00:42:47,808 --> 00:42:50,084
and lead them to learn for themselves.

620
00:42:50,413 --> 00:42:51,478
(Moderator, off) 21st century skill?

621
00:42:51,685 --> 00:42:53,501
(Berry) But knowledge matters here.

622
00:42:53,890 --> 00:42:58,048
It's as Sophie learns more that I hope
she'll want to learn even more.

623
00:42:58,479 --> 00:43:05,032
With literacy motivation, and good WiFi,
she can teach herself almost anything,

624
00:43:05,032 --> 00:43:06,004
and does.

625
00:43:06,421 --> 00:43:07,992
Creativity matters.

626
00:43:08,534 --> 00:43:10,673
We learn not just though listening, 
reading and exploring,

627
00:43:10,673 --> 00:43:12,642
but also through making.

628
00:43:12,932 --> 00:43:16,386
I don't think there's some generic
creativity skill, here.

629
00:43:16,386 --> 00:43:19,425
But I'd like my daughter to be creative
in her music and her computing

630
00:43:19,425 --> 00:43:21,226
and her maths, and so on.

631
00:43:21,543 --> 00:43:25,811
She's been making things for a while now,
but as her knowledge grows,

632
00:43:25,811 --> 00:43:29,705
I'm looking forward to her exploring
and drawing on that in her creative work.

633
00:43:29,705 --> 00:43:31,200
Finally, courage.

634
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:35,300
She's a fearless explorer, with tons
of self-confidence.

635
00:43:35,300 --> 00:43:36,742
(Off whisper, inaudible)
(Berry) OK.

636
00:43:36,742 --> 00:43:38,984
I want her school to encourage that.

637
00:43:38,984 --> 00:43:43,080
More importantly, I want her 
to have the courage to tell the truth,

638
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,659
to stand up for those who can't stand up
for themselves

639
00:43:46,659 --> 00:43:50,166
and to do the right thing, 
even if it's not the popular thing.

640
00:43:50,785 --> 00:43:55,666
So, what should we be doing 
to best prepare young people

641
00:43:55,666 --> 00:43:59,557
for the opportunities, responsibilities
and experiences of later life?

642
00:44:00,662 --> 00:44:02,241
Passing on knowledge.

643
00:44:02,681 --> 00:44:04,318
Nurturing character.

644
00:44:04,753 --> 00:44:06,810
Sounds a bit old-fashioned, but honestly,

645
00:44:06,810 --> 00:44:10,395
what better preparation 
for the rest of the 21st century?

646
00:44:10,645 --> 00:44:18,899
Thank you.
(Applause).

647
00:44:18,899 --> 00:44:20,669
(Moderator) Thank you very much,
Miles.

648
00:44:20,669 --> 00:44:26,907
Right, it's now over to you and I think
we've got about 25 minutes

649
00:44:26,907 --> 00:44:29,478
for questions and contributions.

650
00:44:29,478 --> 00:44:33,406
If you ask a question, I'm going to ask
our panel speakers

651
00:44:33,406 --> 00:44:36,872
not to answer it directly 
but to deal with it in their summing up,

652
00:44:36,872 --> 00:44:40,909
just so that we can ensure that we have
a decent flow.

653
00:44:41,365 --> 00:44:46,137
And if you make a contribution, please,
try to keep it fairly brief, well, brief,

654
00:44:46,137 --> 00:44:48,187
so that other people 
have a chance as well.

655
00:44:48,187 --> 00:44:50,875
And you've been very well-behaved so far.

656
00:44:50,875 --> 00:44:54,590
Please don't feel that you need to be
quite so well-behaved now,

657
00:44:54,590 --> 00:44:56,437
but now is your opportunity.

658
00:44:56,437 --> 00:44:59,316
If you want to speak, 
please just raise your hand.

659
00:44:59,316 --> 00:45:03,146
Bear in mind that if you're at the back,
it is slightly difficult to see you.

660
00:45:03,146 --> 00:45:05,033
And can you, if I call you,

661
00:45:05,033 --> 00:45:08,313
please can you just wait 
till the microphone turns up.

662
00:45:08,313 --> 00:45:10,195
Who'd like to go first?

663
00:45:13,827 --> 00:45:17,372
Would anybody like to ask a question
or comment?

664
00:45:17,816 --> 00:45:20,082
Yes, at the back on the left, there.

665
00:45:25,268 --> 00:45:30,726
(Participant 1) My question is short,
particularly for Allan, I think.

666
00:45:31,296 --> 00:45:35,797
Why are critical thinking skills
important in the 21st century?

667
00:45:39,168 --> 00:45:43,089
(Moderator, off) OK. So that's one 
for Allan to deal with in his summing up.

668
00:45:44,168 --> 00:45:48,607
Anybody else, any-- 
Yes, over on the right there, Yannis (check)

669
00:45:50,434 --> 00:45:51,450
(Participant 2) Thank you very much.

670
00:45:51,450 --> 00:45:55,044
I think both sides of the motion 
are saying it's not working.

671
00:45:55,654 --> 00:46:01,034
So who's to blame, who or what is to blame
or who or what must we change?

672
00:46:04,243 --> 00:46:05,951
(Moderator, off) Thank you for that.

673
00:46:06,503 --> 00:46:10,346
Right, I'm looking for some contributions
now, somebody who's --

674
00:46:10,346 --> 00:46:15,592
Yes, lady there, on the, 
just by the aisle, there.

675
00:46:15,998 --> 00:46:17,527
(Participant 3) Whoops! OK.

676
00:46:17,527 --> 00:46:20,156
Hi, I just have a comment to all of you.

677
00:46:20,507 --> 00:46:24,013
I don't see a huge difference 
between your positions,

678
00:46:24,013 --> 00:46:28,360
because you always seem to say,
it's important to have these,

679
00:46:28,683 --> 00:46:29,974
whatever you call them.

680
00:46:30,332 --> 00:46:35,149
Skills is a kind of a talent that you have
when you are born, or whatever.

681
00:46:35,149 --> 00:46:39,565
You mentioned those things are important,
so what is actually the difference?

682
00:46:39,565 --> 00:46:42,002
We just need to promote an environment

683
00:46:42,002 --> 00:46:48,587
to let people develop 
those types of skills or talents.

684
00:46:52,207 --> 00:46:54,969
(Moderator) Yes, also on the aisle there.

685
00:46:54,973 --> 00:46:56,821
(Participant 4) Thank you. I want to --

686
00:46:56,821 --> 00:46:59,597
(Moderator) Would you mind just introduce
yourself briefly;

687
00:46:59,597 --> 00:47:02,268
actually, if people would just say 
who they are and where they're from,

688
00:47:02,268 --> 00:47:03,763
that would be helpful as well.
(Participant 4) OK.

689
00:47:03,763 --> 00:47:06,825
I'm Denise Gaspard- Richard,
I'm from the University

690
00:47:06,825 --> 00:47:09,673
of the West Indies and Caribbean--
(Moderator) Thank you.

691
00:47:09,673 --> 00:47:10,870
(Participant 4) ..... Campus.

692
00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:16,204
The board said to me, seemed to be saying
somewhat of the same thing.

693
00:47:16,204 --> 00:47:18,805
As you all were speaking, 
I kept thinking

694
00:47:18,805 --> 00:47:21,908
about some employers' surveys 
that we have done

695
00:47:21,908 --> 00:47:25,149
over a period of time in the Caribbean,

696
00:47:25,149 --> 00:47:27,113
where the ..... (check),

697
00:47:27,113 --> 00:47:32,438
soft skills are not really being taught 
at University.

698
00:47:32,438 --> 00:47:35,893
So when a student comes out
in today work environment,

699
00:47:35,893 --> 00:47:38,844
they can't carry out 
a decent conversation

700
00:47:38,844 --> 00:47:40,587
and therefore they can't call up

701
00:47:40,587 --> 00:47:44,955
someone who is not getting
the kind of service that they need,

702
00:47:44,955 --> 00:47:49,532
they don't know how to communicate
in .............. (check) OK?

703
00:47:49,532 --> 00:47:54,235
So when I listened to Jo, I heard 
some of that coming out

704
00:47:54,235 --> 00:47:58,354
and I'm wondering if, probably, 
we have simply substituted

705
00:47:58,354 --> 00:48:02,992
social skills, or soft skills to call it
21st century skills.

706
00:48:02,992 --> 00:48:05,178
So we have more or less seen 
the same thing

707
00:48:05,478 --> 00:48:11,119
as we were seeing before we came up
with this terminology. Thank you.

708
00:48:12,232 --> 00:48:13,987
(Moderator) Thank you for that.
Anybody else?

709
00:48:13,987 --> 00:48:18,908
Yes, in the front row, there.
Just down here, please.

710
00:48:18,908 --> 00:48:23,594
Is there a mike here in the front row
on my right? That's it.

711
00:48:25,514 --> 00:48:27,304
(Participant 5) Thank you. 
My name is Anne DeLorean (check)

712
00:48:27,304 --> 00:48:29,205
from the European Schoolnet in Brussels.

713
00:48:29,673 --> 00:48:36,717
A comment: I think maybe we are missing
the adaptive nature of human beings,

714
00:48:37,356 --> 00:48:42,664
because society has progressed 
through the ages because --

715
00:48:42,664 --> 00:48:45,982
just because we are adaptive.

716
00:48:46,509 --> 00:48:51,128
We have not always had to be taught
everything we do,

717
00:48:51,128 --> 00:48:54,071
but we have to discover it a little bit.

718
00:48:54,719 --> 00:49:03,510
I think, as educators, what we need to do
is provide the -- at the area or the ethos

719
00:49:03,510 --> 00:49:07,094
where this discovery can happen,

720
00:49:07,593 --> 00:49:12,879
not necessarily that we have to provide
the lessons to do it

721
00:49:13,397 --> 00:49:17,354
but provide the means of discovery.

722
00:49:18,976 --> 00:49:23,792
(Moderator) Thank you. Let's have 
another one on the front, here.

723
00:49:24,201 --> 00:49:27,484
Lady on the front row 
on the left hand side here.

724
00:49:31,247 --> 00:49:35,048
(Participant 6) My name is Nikki Spalding,
from Higher Education Academy in the UK.

725
00:49:35,509 --> 00:49:38,467
I was wondering what do you think
is driving the rhetoric

726
00:49:39,097 --> 00:49:41,176
behind 21st century skills the most?

727
00:49:41,176 --> 00:49:46,522
Is it happy individuals and learners?
Happy employers? Happy society?

728
00:49:46,522 --> 00:49:48,716
Or happy Government Treasury?

729
00:49:51,241 --> 00:49:52,795
(Moderator) Thank you for that.

730
00:49:53,566 --> 00:49:57,443
Yes, towards the back there, 
on the right hand side.

731
00:50:09,776 --> 00:50:11,589
(Participant 7) Lydia .... (check),
Poland.

732
00:50:12,065 --> 00:50:17,018
You have concentrated on education
of young people.

733
00:50:17,018 --> 00:50:21,758
And what about education of people
at your age?

734
00:50:21,758 --> 00:50:28,840
Who and how (laugher) should you educate
these 21st century skills or knowledge?

735
00:50:29,804 --> 00:50:34,076
(Moderator) Very good question indeed.
So, we'll come back to that one.

736
00:50:34,076 --> 00:50:40,872
Yes, we have a number on this side, in the
-- where has the microphone gone?

737
00:50:40,872 --> 00:50:46,381
Yes, just at the front 
of this little block there, thank you.

738
00:50:46,381 --> 00:50:50,311
(Participant 8) Hi, my name is Mike Rauser (check), 
from McKinsey and Company in Germany.

739
00:50:50,670 --> 00:50:52,715
And my question is directed to Mr Berry.

740
00:50:53,247 --> 00:50:56,882
Where you've stressed 
teaching specific skills,

741
00:50:58,751 --> 00:51:01,876
please correct me if I'm wrong, about
teaching specific skills in school.

742
00:51:02,167 --> 00:51:05,840
How do you account for situations where

743
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,903
a skill that may not even 
have been invented yet

744
00:51:09,903 --> 00:51:12,387
-- I'm thinking about say, 
from an 1980 view point,

745
00:51:12,707 --> 00:51:17,001
15 years in the future, that
nobody knew what the internet was.

746
00:51:17,001 --> 00:51:20,727
Nobody knew it was going to be in there
15 years later.

747
00:51:21,448 --> 00:51:23,319
OK, very limited.

748
00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:30,399
(Off) I think the internet 
was invented in 1969.

749
00:51:30,399 --> 00:51:34,154
(P8) (people speaking together) 
OK, I understand that, but in general--

750
00:51:34,844 --> 00:51:39,275
(Moderator) Can we -- If you could just 
try to make it a contribution

751
00:51:39,275 --> 00:51:42,236
and then they can respond 
in their final remarks.

752
00:51:42,241 --> 00:51:46,029
(P8) Sure enough
(Moderator) OK (overlap)

753
00:51:46,029 --> 00:51:48,817
(P8) -- that we don't know about
15 years into the future,

754
00:51:48,817 --> 00:51:53,107
or skills that are here now, that may
no longer be there 15 years into the future.

755
00:51:53,634 --> 00:51:55,437
Let's hope that's a little clearer.

756
00:51:55,437 --> 00:51:56,601
(Moderator) OK, thank you.

757
00:51:56,601 --> 00:52:00,444
Can I have some more contributions,
rather than questions?

758
00:52:00,454 --> 00:52:03,755
Anybody like to give their opinion?
Yes, on the --

759
00:52:04,405 --> 00:52:06,635
I think about the third row here.

760
00:52:08,835 --> 00:52:10,885
(Participant 9) So actually it's phrased
as a question,

761
00:52:10,885 --> 00:52:15,773
but think of it as a contribution.
(Moderator) Yes (laughter).

762
00:52:15,773 --> 00:52:17,987
A rhetorical contribution.

763
00:52:18,248 --> 00:52:24,703
(P9) So all of you have been arguing
for or against 21st century skills

764
00:52:24,703 --> 00:52:26,167
very convincingly.

765
00:52:27,795 --> 00:52:30,848
But you were always talking about
what they are,

766
00:52:31,437 --> 00:52:33,749
and not about what they aren't.

767
00:52:34,029 --> 00:52:38,241
So maybe, if the question is phrased
a bit differently,

768
00:52:41,607 --> 00:52:46,463
you would need to make 
a more difficult point, so:

769
00:52:47,190 --> 00:52:50,486
what do you think are skills that are
no longer relevant,

770
00:52:50,486 --> 00:52:56,517
or knowledge that is no longer relevant
now in the 21st century,

771
00:52:56,521 --> 00:52:59,954
and that was indeed very important
200 years ago?

772
00:53:00,385 --> 00:53:03,158
(Moderator) What would your answer
to your own question be?

773
00:53:03,164 --> 00:53:06,824
(P9) I would have to think about it.
(Moderator) Right. (Laughter)

774
00:53:08,106 --> 00:53:11,678
Right, at the -- right at the back,
we've got two hands up there.

775
00:53:12,248 --> 00:53:18,163
At the back, somebody with a dark-colored
jacket on -- that's it.

776
00:53:18,531 --> 00:53:20,058
(Participant 10) Mike Brown,

777
00:53:20,058 --> 00:53:23,035
from the National Institute 
of Digital Learning in Ireland,

778
00:53:23,035 --> 00:53:25,994
A question, but equally a contribution.

779
00:53:26,284 --> 00:53:28,420
What do you think, 
what does the panel think,

780
00:53:28,420 --> 00:53:31,177
22nd century skills will be?

781
00:53:31,177 --> 00:53:35,473
Particularly, particularly 
if we fail to achieve

782
00:53:35,473 --> 00:53:38,774
the post-2015 
Sustainable Development Goals?

783
00:53:40,279 --> 00:53:43,833
(Moderator) Right. Next to -- 
at the back, there.

784
00:53:44,073 --> 00:53:46,085
(Participant 11) I think 
we've lost the plot.

785
00:53:46,085 --> 00:53:50,154
30 years ago, many students started
overtaking the teachers in knowledge.

786
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:57,360
Our school server was looked after
by students, pupils, rather than teachers,

787
00:53:57,363 --> 00:53:58,644
because they couldn't do it.

788
00:53:58,644 --> 00:54:00,126
And that happens all the while.

789
00:54:00,378 --> 00:54:03,856
Medical patients are getting 
more knowledge than the doctors,

790
00:54:03,856 --> 00:54:06,297
because they search the internet
before they go to the doctor's

791
00:54:06,297 --> 00:54:07,596
about their own disease.

792
00:54:07,596 --> 00:54:10,478
So I think we have got no chance,
we can't teach anymore.

793
00:54:11,509 --> 00:54:15,478
(Moderator) OK, thank you for that.
Somebody standing up there --

794
00:54:15,656 --> 00:54:19,146
Yes, with the hat on.
Hello, Clark (check)?

795
00:54:19,146 --> 00:54:22,313
(Participant 12) Yes. Hi, my name is 
Elijah from Sweden

796
00:54:22,313 --> 00:54:26,075
and I work with a software company
developing ideation software.

797
00:54:27,359 --> 00:54:31,195
My contribution is that I wonder
if we should not dig even deeper

798
00:54:31,195 --> 00:54:34,616
and see if this is a structural problem,
because I'd like to say that these skills

799
00:54:34,616 --> 00:54:36,114
are being taught.

800
00:54:36,114 --> 00:54:39,050
We see today that people are in two
different types of networks:

801
00:54:39,050 --> 00:54:43,308
they are in centralized or distributed
networks at work or at school,

802
00:54:43,539 --> 00:54:45,919
but distributed in their spare time.

803
00:54:46,117 --> 00:54:48,490
And we see also that 
these different types of network

804
00:54:48,490 --> 00:54:51,295
cultivate different types of values.

805
00:54:51,298 --> 00:54:53,080
So it could be an organizational problem,

806
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,800
but also a value problem, 
if we dig even deeper.

807
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,601
For example, 
from advertising to conversation

808
00:54:59,601 --> 00:55:04,631
from ownership to sharing,
from profit to growth --

809
00:55:04,631 --> 00:55:07,031
sorry, from profit to sustainability,
and so on.

810
00:55:07,031 --> 00:55:10,908
So my contribution is basically, maybe
the problem is even deeper,

811
00:55:10,908 --> 00:55:13,067
maybe it has to do about 
how we are organized,

812
00:55:13,067 --> 00:55:16,276
and the values that those organizations
cultivate.

813
00:55:16,969 --> 00:55:20,944
(Moderator) Thank you for that
(Applause)

814
00:55:20,944 --> 00:55:25,299
Yes, down in the front block here,
in the middle.

815
00:55:26,954 --> 00:55:29,720
(Participant 13) I'm Cory Doctorow, 
from the morning plenary.

816
00:55:31,286 --> 00:55:34,960
It seems to me that education has been
refactored over the last several decades

817
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:38,310
as a kind of factory, 
whose product is educated children,

818
00:55:38,310 --> 00:55:39,657
with teachers as employees,

819
00:55:39,657 --> 00:55:44,208
and the board of directors as the Ministry
of Education, God help us, Michael Gove,

820
00:55:44,208 --> 00:55:45,270
as the CEO.

821
00:55:45,270 --> 00:55:46,330
And
(laughter)

822
00:55:46,330 --> 00:55:50,797
it seems like, when you organize
something around the idea

823
00:55:50,797 --> 00:55:53,943
that the public are shareholders and that 
we're doing something that's a business,

824
00:55:53,943 --> 00:55:56,943
you have to have a quarterly report
where some numbers go up

825
00:55:56,943 --> 00:55:58,664
to show that the business is thriving.

826
00:55:58,664 --> 00:56:00,398
And as a result, we are reify things

827
00:56:00,398 --> 00:56:02,120
that are not 
pedagogically supported,

828
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,877
like attendance and 
standardized test scores,

829
00:56:04,877 --> 00:56:08,937
rather than things that are pedagogically
supported as being real learning,

830
00:56:08,937 --> 00:56:12,680
which are often not quantifiable
and are difficult to recognize,

831
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:16,329
except as a kind of creative fog
that you see your students in,

832
00:56:16,329 --> 00:56:21,632
where they are excited and 
are really chasing knowledge.

833
00:56:21,632 --> 00:56:24,136
And so now we're -- can be obsessed
with turning children into

834
00:56:24,136 --> 00:56:26,947
second-rate spreadsheets or 
third-rate spellcheckers,

835
00:56:26,947 --> 00:56:29,718
instead of teaching them arithmetic
and language.

836
00:56:30,147 --> 00:56:32,799
It seems like a focus on skills,

837
00:56:32,799 --> 00:56:36,127
without reference to the way 
that we frame education,

838
00:56:36,127 --> 00:56:37,717
gets us nowhere.

839
00:56:37,717 --> 00:56:40,588
Adding standardized tests' outcomes
where we look at

840
00:56:40,588 --> 00:56:43,502
whether or not you've acquired 
21st century skills,

841
00:56:43,502 --> 00:56:47,749
ignores the fact that anything 
that you try to teach,

842
00:56:47,749 --> 00:56:50,645
where the only way you're evaluated
is with high-stake testing,

843
00:56:51,635 --> 00:56:52,570
gives you nothing,

844
00:56:52,570 --> 00:56:55,805
except for someone who has been 
crammed full of a bunch of facts

845
00:56:55,805 --> 00:56:57,574
that they'll promptly forget
when they leave school,

846
00:56:57,574 --> 00:56:59,603
and no synthetic capability.

847
00:57:00,877 --> 00:57:02,009
(Moderator) Thank you for that.

848
00:57:02,271 --> 00:57:06,642
Yes, on the side of this block here,
on the left.

849
00:57:09,293 --> 00:57:12,728
(Participant 14) Thank you. 
I am ..... (check) from the Investor Malawi.


850
00:57:13,741 --> 00:57:17,356
My question is, I don't know whether 
we know what we're talking about.

851
00:57:18,947 --> 00:57:22,666
(Laughter)
In Africa, we believe that

852
00:57:22,666 --> 00:57:24,367
if you don't know where you're going,

853
00:57:24,367 --> 00:57:26,454
even the Lord can't take you there. (check)

854
00:57:27,775 --> 00:57:31,399
Are we changing education, 
although we are using,

855
00:57:31,399 --> 00:57:38,001
we attempt to coexist two educations,
or we are neglecting education. Thank you.

856
00:57:38,370 --> 00:57:42,372
(Moderator) Thank you. Yes, in the middle
of the front block again,

857
00:57:42,372 --> 00:57:44,518
and then I'll come over to this one.

858
00:57:45,300 --> 00:57:48,154
(Participant 15) Hi, Olaf ........ from ....
University of Applied Science.

859
00:57:48,154 --> 00:57:51,759
As a university of applied science,
we're teaching skills like hell:

860
00:57:51,982 --> 00:57:56,180
social skills, soft skills,
technical skills, all this stuff.

861
00:57:56,180 --> 00:57:58,489
But maybe we are missing out the values
behind these skills,

862
00:57:58,489 --> 00:58:01,317
because they aren't the things 
in the future. (check)

863
00:58:02,570 --> 00:58:07,967
(Moderator) Thank you. Let's go
into this block in the front here,

864
00:58:08,243 --> 00:58:13,685
on the right hand side, the -- the lady 
there, I think, just in front of the camera.

865
00:58:14,342 --> 00:58:15,842
(Participant 16) My name is
Lisa .......... (check)

866
00:58:15,842 --> 00:58:18,358
I work at Rosetta Stone (check) 
in the United States.

867
00:58:18,358 --> 00:58:23,521
I think my comment really builds on some 
of the things that Cory Doctorow said.

868
00:58:24,181 --> 00:58:26,862
You could argue that the premise 
that we are arguing

869
00:58:26,862 --> 00:58:28,802
is actually the wrong question.

870
00:58:28,802 --> 00:58:33,522
It's not important, we -- just teaching
the 21st century skills isn't enough.

871
00:58:33,522 --> 00:58:36,073
Those skills have to be honed, practiced
and applied,

872
00:58:36,073 --> 00:58:37,530
for them to do anything.

873
00:58:37,530 --> 00:58:39,091
So it's not about the teaching, it's about

874
00:58:39,091 --> 00:58:41,518
what should the students do 
with the teaching after that.

875
00:58:42,853 --> 00:58:45,712
(Moderator) Thank you for that.
Let's have another one on this side.

876
00:58:47,002 --> 00:58:49,401
One here on the front -- front row.

877
00:58:53,876 --> 00:58:56,245
(Participant 17) Good evening, I'm 
.......... (check) of the European Schoolnet,

878
00:58:56,245 --> 00:59:01,271
I want to be also a bit provocative and
I'm thinking about the role you mentioned.

879
00:59:01,271 --> 00:59:02,876
What's the role of education?

880
00:59:02,876 --> 00:59:06,894
Are we pushed by industry to deliver
certain things or not?

881
00:59:06,894 --> 00:59:10,273
And I'm thinking, what's the role
of the parents in all that?

882
00:59:10,746 --> 00:59:15,767
Is it maybe the role of the parents
to teach these kinds of things?

883
00:59:15,767 --> 00:59:18,667
You talked, Miles, 
about character building

884
00:59:19,041 --> 00:59:21,273
and I think there are certain things
school can do,

885
00:59:21,718 --> 00:59:26,435
but I have, at least for my generation,
a little bit of feeling that parents, also

886
00:59:26,435 --> 00:59:31,286
shift a little bit, sometimes,
the responsibility to school,

887
00:59:31,961 --> 00:59:37,254
to technology, and maybe it's time
to be a good parent again.

888
00:59:38,231 --> 00:59:40,085
(Moderator) Thank you for that.
(Applause)

889
00:59:40,085 --> 00:59:43,149
Right at the back, there, 
on the right hand side,

890
00:59:44,126 --> 00:59:45,844
right at the back in the middle.

891
00:59:48,771 --> 00:59:51,203
(Participant 18) Hi: Bernard Sander
from New York University.

892
00:59:52,621 --> 00:59:55,274
I grew up developing my own film,

893
00:59:55,724 --> 00:59:58,365
though I'm a pretty adequate digital
photographer,

894
00:59:58,365 --> 01:00:03,747
I did research using card catalogs and 
paper indexes and microfiche,

895
01:00:03,747 --> 01:00:07,517
but I am a more than adequate 
digital researcher.

896
01:00:08,557 --> 01:00:11,292
And I think the story is the same
for most of the people in the room.

897
01:00:11,292 --> 01:00:14,752
So the question really is, what was
inadequate about my education?

898
01:00:16,335 --> 01:00:19,588
Nothing I did in the 20th century
hasn't prepared me

899
01:00:19,588 --> 01:00:22,645
for what 21st century has begun.

900
01:00:23,410 --> 01:00:25,831
And as long as I'm competent

901
01:00:26,312 --> 01:00:30,077
in my capacity to search 
for new information

902
01:00:30,077 --> 01:00:35,672
and in being willing to put any effort
to acquire new skills,

903
01:00:36,032 --> 01:00:38,141
I don't feel that I'm unprepared,

904
01:00:38,141 --> 01:00:41,058
and I don't frankly think that any student
is really unprepared,

905
01:00:41,058 --> 01:00:42,712
as long as they have that.

906
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:50,089
So what is it that the 21st century brings
that is so unique,

907
01:00:50,992 --> 01:00:53,271
other than the fact that 
they can make a mistake

908
01:00:53,271 --> 01:00:56,278
and be seen by everybody all at once
in three seconds,

909
01:00:57,131 --> 01:00:59,083
right? you know, so that's fun.

910
01:00:59,083 --> 01:01:03,385
But other than that little piece,
what's new?

911
01:01:05,707 --> 01:01:07,141
(Moderator) OK.Thank you for that.

912
01:01:07,141 --> 01:01:12,198
Right at the back, against the wall,
with a red tie. That's it.

913
01:01:16,349 --> 01:01:17,485
(Participant 19) I'm Eric Balance (check)

914
01:01:17,485 --> 01:01:23,444
and I'm from the Education, Audiovisual
and Culture Executive Agency.

915
01:01:24,184 --> 01:01:26,807
We're talking about skills,

916
01:01:27,483 --> 01:01:32,635
because our employers tell us 
that our kids don't have them.

917
01:01:33,135 --> 01:01:38,055
Why are we not asking about the skills,
not the employers,

918
01:01:38,055 --> 01:01:40,723
but society is asking for?

919
01:01:45,639 --> 01:01:49,351
(Moderator) Yes, next door 
to the last speaker.

920
01:01:50,383 --> 01:01:51,865
(Participant 20) Kat Sanford (check) 
from the UK.

921
01:01:51,865 --> 01:01:54,226
I've changed jobs now, 
but in a previous life

922
01:01:54,226 --> 01:01:58,342
I've worked with many, many teachers,
primary and secondary,

923
01:01:58,342 --> 01:02:01,922
and they will tell you that 
all of the skills you're talking about,

924
01:02:01,922 --> 01:02:06,281
with creativity, adaptation, rhetoric,

925
01:02:06,281 --> 01:02:09,556
all of them are what they are 
trying to teach,

926
01:02:09,556 --> 01:02:12,876
when they are not delivering 
standardized tests.

927
01:02:13,064 --> 01:02:14,313
So the question is,

928
01:02:14,733 --> 01:02:18,832
do we want the education system to be
told to do a certain thing

929
01:02:18,832 --> 01:02:21,423
or are we trying to encourage it
from the inside?

930
01:02:21,423 --> 01:02:23,359
Because I think they are two 
different things.

931
01:02:24,556 --> 01:02:27,309
(Moderator) Yes (Applause).
Thank you for that.

932
01:02:27,690 --> 01:02:30,121
In the front row here, 
on the left hand side.

933
01:02:33,182 --> 01:02:35,207
(Participant 21) Yes, hello, 
this is Philip from IBA

934
01:02:35,207 --> 01:02:39,569
and I wonder if we're not discussing
on a completely too advanced level.

935
01:02:39,569 --> 01:02:42,867
I just got an email from the school
of my son, today,

936
01:02:42,867 --> 01:02:47,249
where the school council had decided
that -- and that was the name --

937
01:02:47,249 --> 01:02:48,890
that game boys should be left home.

938
01:02:50,058 --> 01:02:55,287
Which makes me think if what we're 
discussing here is not way away

939
01:02:55,287 --> 01:02:57,879
from what the reality looks like,

940
01:02:57,879 --> 01:03:01,723
because we're here sitting and discussing 
really interesting topics,

941
01:03:01,723 --> 01:03:06,173
and in our ideal state of mind,
it's something like that.

942
01:03:06,173 --> 01:03:09,223
And then I go out and see people like
Donald Trump who are a result

943
01:03:09,223 --> 01:03:11,263
of our education system,

944
01:03:11,263 --> 01:03:15,826
which is a reason for shutting 
the whole thing down, I think.

945
01:03:15,826 --> 01:03:18,650
(Laughter, applause)

946
01:03:18,650 --> 01:03:23,599
(Moderator) Thank you for that. Yes,
another one here, in the front block.

947
01:03:30,156 --> 01:03:35,323
(Participant 22) Hello, I come from 
the University of Oslo, Norway,

948
01:03:35,945 --> 01:03:37,435
...... (check name).

949
01:03:38,304 --> 01:03:41,670
There was quite a lot of investigation 
in Norway, a few years back.

950
01:03:41,968 --> 01:03:44,721
They asked employers, I would like to go
to employers:

951
01:03:45,312 --> 01:03:47,077
"What kinds of skills are you looking for

952
01:03:47,077 --> 01:03:49,583
"in a candidate that you consider 
employing?"

953
01:03:49,955 --> 01:03:53,435
And the first one was: 
ability to cooperate.

954
01:03:53,981 --> 01:03:56,010
Then we asked to ourselves,
are we doing that?

955
01:03:56,535 --> 01:04:01,528
And then the next one on the list was
ability to attain new knowledge;

956
01:04:01,982 --> 01:04:05,846
next, ability to think independently
and critically;

957
01:04:06,228 --> 01:04:10,947
communication skills; ability 
to use knowledge in new fields;

958
01:04:10,947 --> 01:04:14,165
ability to establish contact 
and building relations.

959
01:04:14,165 --> 01:04:19,051
And again, we're not doing these things,
we're not -- kind of.

960
01:04:19,510 --> 01:04:25,248
Point 7 on the list was good theoretical
knowledge in your field of science.

961
01:04:25,248 --> 01:04:27,198
That's what we're doing all the time.

962
01:04:27,198 --> 01:04:29,447
I mean it's great to see 
so many people here

963
01:04:29,447 --> 01:04:36,795
but let's face it, most people
are not here. (Laughter)

964
01:04:36,795 --> 01:04:43,223
That means that lectures -- I mean it's 
great to see many people at this meeting,

965
01:04:43,223 --> 01:04:48,839
concerned with teaching in general,
but the fact is that most lectures,

966
01:04:49,252 --> 01:04:53,335
say basic course in first year mathematic,
whatever, at my university,

967
01:04:53,335 --> 01:04:57,985
are being taught today in exactly 
the same way as when I was a student,

968
01:04:58,439 --> 01:04:59,751
thirty years ago.

969
01:04:59,755 --> 01:05:02,646
So that's why this conference 
is important, and

970
01:05:02,646 --> 01:05:06,441
that's why we need to provide students --
some people have to take responsibility

971
01:05:06,441 --> 01:05:10,316
to provide students with the skills 
that employers need.

972
01:05:11,745 --> 01:05:13,065
(Applause)

973
01:05:13,065 --> 01:05:14,237
(Moderator) Thank you.
There was another question

974
01:05:14,237 --> 01:05:17,552
just near to the last speaker, 
in the same block,

975
01:05:17,552 --> 01:05:22,448
the lady there, just the row in front,
I think.

976
01:05:25,992 --> 01:05:28,877
(Participant 23) Hi, Lisa, 
with the Global Business School Network.

977
01:05:29,254 --> 01:05:30,656
And ........ (check)

978
01:05:30,656 --> 01:05:35,118
perhaps it's not just what skills 
we're teaching, but more so

979
01:05:35,118 --> 01:05:39,497
what 21st century pedagogical skills
that we're using, in that

980
01:05:39,497 --> 01:05:42,512
sometimes it's just as important
how it's being taught

981
01:05:42,512 --> 01:05:43,674
than what is being taught.

982
01:05:43,674 --> 01:05:46,901
And I think back to my college and
in some of the courses,

983
01:05:46,901 --> 01:05:49,221
sometimes when I was going through
the course catalog,

984
01:05:49,221 --> 01:05:53,802
it wasn't how exciting the title was,
but who was teaching it.

985
01:05:53,802 --> 01:05:58,320
And I think that goes back to 
some of the test scores

986
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:00,561
that teachers are very focused on as well.

987
01:06:00,561 --> 01:06:02,953
And when I look at my daughter
who has started school

988
01:06:02,953 --> 01:06:06,190
and what when I started school
about 30 years ago,

989
01:06:06,675 --> 01:06:09,047
and looking at how she is being taught

990
01:06:09,891 --> 01:06:12,302
-- taking away from ...... (check)
what should be included --

991
01:06:12,302 --> 01:06:16,872
but a lot of that rote learning and a lot
of new skills they're using as well, so.

992
01:06:19,108 --> 01:06:22,588
(Moderator) OK, thank you, another one
in the ..... (check) over there

993
01:06:23,337 --> 01:06:25,412
(Participant 24) Hi, my name is ...... (check)

994
01:06:25,412 --> 01:06:27,157
I work for UNESCO UNIPOP (check)

995
01:06:27,852 --> 01:06:30,520
I just want to ask, 
not just for the panelists,

996
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:32,207
but I think for everyone.

997
01:06:32,207 --> 01:06:36,849
Maybe after 20, 30 years or so, are we
still going to talk about the same thing?

998
01:06:36,849 --> 01:06:40,175
Or are we going to -- what the idea
would be the next topic

999
01:06:40,175 --> 01:06:42,660
that we're going to talk about?

1000
01:06:42,660 --> 01:06:47,203
And I just also wanted to also reiterate
what our head of office is actually saying,

1001
01:06:47,203 --> 01:06:49,562
I mean -- ..... (check name) --

1002
01:06:49,562 --> 01:06:55,387
he always say that the world is not
hungry for more words, more resolutions,

1003
01:06:55,387 --> 01:06:57,844
more talks and more panel discussions.

1004
01:06:57,844 --> 01:07:00,602
The world is actually hungry 
for more actions.

1005
01:07:00,863 --> 01:07:02,161
Thank you very much.

1006
01:07:03,204 --> 01:07:07,620
(Moderator) Thank you. We've got about
5 minutes left for questions.

1007
01:07:07,620 --> 01:07:11,751
Please, so if you want to ask a question,
just stick your hand up

1008
01:07:11,751 --> 01:07:14,757
and then we can get an idea: 
I think there is about three more.

1009
01:07:14,757 --> 01:07:18,805
So, the man right at the back 
by the aisle here,

1010
01:07:18,805 --> 01:07:21,028
on the right hand side, please, first.

1011
01:07:23,513 --> 01:07:26,179
(Participant 25) Hi, ............. (check name)
from London.

1012
01:07:26,179 --> 01:07:29,680
Miles mentioned knowledge and character,

1013
01:07:30,775 --> 01:07:34,230
I think one thing left out here is values.

1014
01:07:35,297 --> 01:07:38,343
So you know, we need knowledge
to do things,

1015
01:07:38,343 --> 01:07:39,782
we need skills to do things,

1016
01:07:39,782 --> 01:07:43,196
but we first have to agree at
what's worthy of doing.

1017
01:07:45,202 --> 01:07:48,580
(Moderator) OK, thank you, and there was
a question, again on the aisle, here,

1018
01:07:48,580 --> 01:07:54,842
on the left hand side -- 
lady just down here: that's it.

1019
01:07:55,288 --> 01:07:59,445
(Participant 26) It's not really 
a question, but a challenge, maybe

1020
01:07:59,445 --> 01:08:01,071
for the panelists.

1021
01:08:01,071 --> 01:08:06,016
I miss a little bit of diversity, so
maybe more ethnical backgrounds,

1022
01:08:06,016 --> 01:08:08,869
different ethnical backgrounds
looking at the same question,

1023
01:08:08,873 --> 01:08:12,280
and how is it that we are addressing this
in different contexts.

1024
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:17,326
So maybe for the next plenary, we can have
a bit more diversity.

1025
01:08:18,886 --> 01:08:23,035
(Moderator) OK, and then there's --
there are two, right at the back,

1026
01:08:23,035 --> 01:08:24,562
on the right hand side.

1027
01:08:28,684 --> 01:08:31,354
(Participant 27) .................... (check name)
Belgrade, Serbia.

1028
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:39,895
Part of the title of this panel is that
soft skills, 21st century skills,

1029
01:08:39,895 --> 01:08:41,369
should be taught.

1030
01:08:41,847 --> 01:08:49,287
My question is, is there any published
evidence as to what extent

1031
01:08:49,777 --> 01:08:54,004
teaching them really changes 
the mastery of these skills?

1032
01:08:57,088 --> 01:09:01,048
(Moderator) And I think, a final question,
again right at the back --

1033
01:09:01,048 --> 01:09:05,037
-- or a contribution -- right at the back
on the -- here we are, that's it.

1034
01:09:06,635 --> 01:09:09,165
(Participant 27) Thank you. My name is 
Heike Dratch (check name).

1035
01:09:09,165 --> 01:09:12,716
I'm working for GIZ (check)
an international cooperation organization.

1036
01:09:12,716 --> 01:09:17,667
And my -- what I'm lacking a bit here is,
in looking at 21st century skills,

1037
01:09:17,667 --> 01:09:21,599
and looking at Paris, 
the climate change conference,

1038
01:09:22,031 --> 01:09:25,348
so what kind of skills do we need, 
to look into the future

1039
01:09:25,348 --> 01:09:32,230
and really see what we're doing now
is a future-oriented, sustainable activity.

1040
01:09:32,230 --> 01:09:36,406
So what kind of skills are not taught,
in the sense of

1041
01:09:36,406 --> 01:09:39,393
having a future orientation 
of our behavior now

1042
01:09:39,393 --> 01:09:41,314
and how we can change our behaviors.

1043
01:09:41,677 --> 01:09:45,264
So this is a -- probably 
in the next 10, 20 years,

1044
01:09:45,264 --> 01:09:48,351
we need answers for that, 
how we change our behavior

1045
01:09:48,351 --> 01:09:50,922
and seeing how it effects 
on what we're doing.

1046
01:09:51,950 --> 01:09:54,085
(Moderator) OK, thank you 
very much for that,

1047
01:09:54,085 --> 01:09:57,540
and thank you everyone 
for your questions and contributions

1048
01:09:57,540 --> 01:10:02,362
(Applause)

1049
01:10:02,362 --> 01:10:06,640
I'm now going to ask one speaker from
each side to sum up,

1050
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:08,780
and to deal with the points 
that you've made

1051
01:10:08,790 --> 01:10:13,076
and to make their final pitch 
for your votes.

1052
01:10:13,076 --> 01:10:18,801
So, first of all, I will ask our speakers
against the motion to sum up.

1053
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:20,973
You've got 5 minutes.

1054
01:10:20,973 --> 01:10:21,779
(Allan Päll) Alright, thank you very much.

1055
01:10:21,779 --> 01:10:24,505
I'm also very happy to hear 
the different nuances

1056
01:10:24,505 --> 01:10:28,418
and different arguments raised, 
and I think that the question --

1057
01:10:28,418 --> 01:10:31,037
questioning the very question itself
is a good one,

1058
01:10:31,762 --> 01:10:34,040
because it is difficult to pin down.

1059
01:10:34,270 --> 01:10:38,919
I would perhaps like to start with
the broadest question, in terms of

1060
01:10:38,919 --> 01:10:43,167
what would the 22nd century skills be?

1061
01:10:43,167 --> 01:10:46,401
And unless the world will change 
completely

1062
01:10:46,401 --> 01:10:49,871
or we will run out of resources
on the planet,

1063
01:10:49,871 --> 01:10:51,775
or we will have a nuclear war,

1064
01:10:51,775 --> 01:10:53,681
potentially, it will look similar,

1065
01:10:54,071 --> 01:10:56,742
but it could also be that we are just
vegetables

1066
01:10:56,742 --> 01:11:01,705
plugged into a matrix-like singularity 
that some are predicting.

1067
01:11:01,705 --> 01:11:05,212
And then, of course, it would be
completely different, because

1068
01:11:05,212 --> 01:11:07,789
there would be no physical interaction.

1069
01:11:07,982 --> 01:11:12,920
So our mind needs to be open for even
fundamental, more fundamental changes

1070
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:14,940
than we can even imagine.

1071
01:11:15,179 --> 01:11:19,436
However, I think there was a --
one important reflection indeed,

1072
01:11:19,436 --> 01:11:24,399
about how do we teach
and what is the pedagogy

1073
01:11:24,399 --> 01:11:27,291
used in hour educational system.

1074
01:11:27,539 --> 01:11:32,272
I think our main problem, if we are 
to look anyone who is to be blamed,

1075
01:11:32,272 --> 01:11:37,560
is that -- is not education itself,
is not the educators or the teachers,

1076
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:42,638
but it may be indeed in this obsession
with standards, standardized testing

1077
01:11:42,977 --> 01:11:47,827
and also indeed, I would even go to argue,
with qualifications.

1078
01:11:47,827 --> 01:11:52,250
Yes, you might say, we want to be sure 
that you, as an engineer,

1079
01:11:52,250 --> 01:11:55,524
are properly qualified, or as a doctor.

1080
01:11:55,524 --> 01:12:00,726
Yes, we need to be sure that you have made
-- have a certain set of skills

1081
01:12:00,726 --> 01:12:02,685
to be able to perform that job.

1082
01:12:02,685 --> 01:12:07,596
But then again, perhaps, the way
that we conduct learning

1083
01:12:07,596 --> 01:12:12,141
is not recognizing the fact that learning
is not something

1084
01:12:12,141 --> 01:12:15,520
that an educational institution can have
a monopoly over.

1085
01:12:15,991 --> 01:12:20,824
And thus, maybe, we need to open that up
much more and say that

1086
01:12:20,824 --> 01:12:25,519
we need to recognize any kind of
competences, skills, values

1087
01:12:25,519 --> 01:12:27,744
that you gain anywhere.

1088
01:12:27,744 --> 01:12:33,762
So I think -- I think in terms of
building that critical thinking,

1089
01:12:33,762 --> 01:12:38,923
which I do think is important, and which
has existed throughout centuries

1090
01:12:38,923 --> 01:12:41,364
and is needed for the future as well,

1091
01:12:41,364 --> 01:12:46,184
that if we want to make sure that it is
better done.

1092
01:12:46,184 --> 01:12:50,440
We really need to look at, OK, let's
recognize that this happens everywhere

1093
01:12:50,828 --> 01:12:54,279
and let's also see that we don't need
to ignore the subject matter

1094
01:12:54,279 --> 01:12:59,052
but use participative methods of teaching
and learning in our environment.

1095
01:12:59,052 --> 01:13:01,748
And that's where 
the difference comes from.

1096
01:13:01,748 --> 01:13:08,642
But however, I do believe that 
the very standard academic methods

1097
01:13:08,642 --> 01:13:15,319
are still giving us the basic abilities
for things like critical thinking.

1098
01:13:16,869 --> 01:13:18,240
(Applause)

1099
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:22,493
(Moderator) Thank you. OK?
(Applause)

1100
01:13:22,493 --> 01:13:25,634
If you want to you got a couple of minutes
to ......

1101
01:13:26,770 --> 01:13:31,518
(Berry) Very briefly, a couple of other
things worth saying, I think,

1102
01:13:31,518 --> 01:13:33,084
in addition to what Allan said.

1103
01:13:33,928 --> 01:13:39,190
Trust schools! Actually, so much of what 
we heard about here

1104
01:13:39,639 --> 01:13:42,415
happens in the day to day life 
of the classroom.

1105
01:13:42,415 --> 01:13:46,010
What does school do, 
yes, it is about education,

1106
01:13:46,010 --> 01:13:49,177
this passing on of knowledge
to the next generation.

1107
01:13:49,177 --> 01:13:52,065
But it's also about building character,

1108
01:13:52,065 --> 01:13:55,350
it's also about young people
having that experience

1109
01:13:55,350 --> 01:13:59,622
of getting on with one another
and working collaboratively,

1110
01:13:59,622 --> 01:14:01,063
of working creatively.

1111
01:14:01,063 --> 01:14:08,240
Much of what we are labeling perhaps
as 21st century skills is happening.

1112
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:10,404
Teachers are committed to this 
sort of thing,

1113
01:14:10,404 --> 01:14:14,831
this happens in most of the classrooms,
length and breadth of most countries,

1114
01:14:14,831 --> 01:14:17,515
apart from when the testing 
gets in the way,

1115
01:14:17,515 --> 01:14:20,884
as Allan has already made clear that.

1116
01:14:20,884 --> 01:14:22,567
What are the reasons 
why this has happened?

1117
01:14:22,567 --> 01:14:25,845
Well, in part, it is this sort of
preparation for the future.

1118
01:14:25,845 --> 01:14:28,842
If you look back at the start
of the 20th century,

1119
01:14:29,288 --> 01:14:32,070
there were newspaper articles,
there were magazine articles

1120
01:14:32,070 --> 01:14:35,177
about what should be 20th century skills.

1121
01:14:35,177 --> 01:14:37,360
How many of those 
are still relevant today?

1122
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:39,959
I'd say most of those 
are still relevant today.

1123
01:14:39,959 --> 01:14:40,968
You know, the photography thing:

1124
01:14:41,597 --> 01:14:44,226
yes, we are working 
with different cameras now

1125
01:14:44,841 --> 01:14:47,642
but the knowledge of what makes
a good photograph,

1126
01:14:47,946 --> 01:14:49,994
and the wisdom to discern 
a good photograph

1127
01:14:49,994 --> 01:14:52,711
from a less good photograph
is still just,

1128
01:14:52,711 --> 01:14:55,861
I think is just as important now 
as it was then.

1129
01:14:56,208 --> 01:15:02,248
So in summary, 21st century skills
are being taught in schools.

1130
01:15:02,252 --> 01:15:04,052
We are addressing this.

1131
01:15:04,052 --> 01:15:06,445
But actually, there are much more
important things

1132
01:15:06,445 --> 01:15:11,549
that we should be focusing on: knowledge,
passing that on to the next generation,

1133
01:15:11,549 --> 01:15:16,310
and character, and yes, values, 
absolutely right.

1134
01:15:16,310 --> 01:15:18,463
You know, the question about
what should we be doing

1135
01:15:18,463 --> 01:15:20,595
in terms of 22nd century skills.

1136
01:15:21,276 --> 01:15:26,470
I suspect the values of respect for
one another, of integrity,

1137
01:15:27,420 --> 01:15:31,806
of willingness to be courageous,
as I was talking about,

1138
01:15:31,806 --> 01:15:35,855
that's going to be just as important then
as it is now. Thank you very much.

1139
01:15:35,855 --> 01:15:40,492
(Applause)
(Moderator) Thank you.(Applause)

1140
01:15:40,492 --> 01:15:43,121
OK, I'll now ask 
our speakers for the motion

1141
01:15:43,121 --> 01:15:45,841
to sum up and you've got 5 minutes.
Thank you.

1142
01:15:46,365 --> 01:15:49,464
(Pedro De Bruyckere) I'll say one minute,
one answer to one question,

1143
01:15:49,464 --> 01:15:51,422
and then, Jo will conclude.

1144
01:15:51,422 --> 01:15:53,988
But there was a question, 
"Who is to blame."

1145
01:15:53,988 --> 01:15:55,641
That's easy: we are.

1146
01:15:56,202 --> 01:15:59,025
We are all, because we've fogotten
what school is about.

1147
01:15:59,025 --> 01:16:03,556
If you look back what school really means,
it means free time.

1148
01:16:04,066 --> 01:16:07,515
If I say this to my son, he will start
throwing things,

1149
01:16:07,515 --> 01:16:11,764
but it means free of economic value.

1150
01:16:12,302 --> 01:16:16,840
Because if you go to a hair salon
in a school,

1151
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:22,017
you know it will take much longer time
than in a real hair salon,

1152
01:16:22,017 --> 01:16:26,720
because the emphasis is not 
on earning money, but on learning.

1153
01:16:27,126 --> 01:16:31,808
And today, because of the testings,
because of the focus,

1154
01:16:32,153 --> 01:16:36,265
teachers need to to focus on
very specific elements

1155
01:16:36,856 --> 01:16:40,399
and we've forgotten what schooling 
is about, what school is about.

1156
01:16:40,642 --> 01:16:43,792
So if we bring back school, then maybe

1157
01:16:43,792 --> 01:16:47,576
these 21st century skills 
will be taught again.

1158
01:16:48,513 --> 01:16:53,537
(Moderator) Thank you. Jo.
(Applause)

1159
01:16:53,537 --> 01:16:58,550
(Jo Swinson) So, I firstly want to answer
a question that Miles asked, which was

1160
01:16:58,550 --> 01:17:01,362
"Who uses a spreadsheet to plan a party?"

1161
01:17:01,729 --> 01:17:05,457
I would just say that anyone that asks
that question has never planned a wedding.

1162
01:17:05,825 --> 01:17:08,722
(Laughter)

1163
01:17:09,515 --> 01:17:17,458
I think it was -- a guy at the back said:
"Most people are not in this room."

1164
01:17:17,458 --> 01:17:19,709
And that is actually part of the problem.

1165
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:23,373
Because if the world was 
like the people in this room,

1166
01:17:23,373 --> 01:17:26,505
i don't think there'd be such concern,
I think that we would be able

1167
01:17:26,505 --> 01:17:29,903
to stand here and say that 
21st century skills are being taught.

1168
01:17:30,236 --> 01:17:33,553
You know, going round the exhibitions,
seeing the innovation, the creativity,

1169
01:17:33,923 --> 01:17:35,445
it's really inspiring.

1170
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:38,300
But I think we all know 
from our own experience

1171
01:17:38,300 --> 01:17:41,119
that the world out there 
isn't quite as enlightened.

1172
01:17:41,395 --> 01:17:45,728
And the measurement is a stifling problem.

1173
01:17:45,728 --> 01:17:47,062
What gets measured gets done.

1174
01:17:47,062 --> 01:17:51,185
So of course, if you have endless testing,
then teachers will teach to the test, and --

1175
01:17:51,727 --> 01:17:53,923
I noted the reference to Michael Gove:

1176
01:17:53,923 --> 01:17:55,506
I'd just like to just say for the record:

1177
01:17:55,506 --> 01:17:58,955
I was a part of the coalition 
trying to rein him in at that point.

1178
01:17:59,849 --> 01:18:03,664
And I think Elijah talked about the values
in organizations,

1179
01:18:03,664 --> 01:18:06,564
and how the values even of our societies 
is changing.

1180
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:11,034
I think that's right and it's important --
I think it's exciting.

1181
01:18:11,034 --> 01:18:14,235
We are moving to an age where there is
far less deference:

1182
01:18:14,235 --> 01:18:17,865
that has its challenges in ll sorts
of walks of life, from anchors

1183
01:18:17,865 --> 01:18:20,663
to medicine, to politics, to the media.

1184
01:18:20,663 --> 01:18:22,800
But I also think it's 
a positive development

1185
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:25,790
that people can make 
their critical analysis

1186
01:18:25,790 --> 01:18:28,776
of the institutions around us,
rather than assuming that

1187
01:18:28,776 --> 01:18:31,352
if somebody is in authority,
then they must be right.

1188
01:18:31,909 --> 01:18:35,154
Even in the business world, there is 
a move towards more collaboration

1189
01:18:35,154 --> 01:18:37,196
rather than just pure competition.

1190
01:18:37,196 --> 01:18:41,272
The pursuit of profit is still important,
but conversations ..... (check) purpose

1191
01:18:41,272 --> 01:18:43,313
are also increasingly heard.

1192
01:18:43,654 --> 01:18:46,134
And I think that the leadership models

1193
01:18:46,134 --> 01:18:49,109
that are now experienced and valued 
the most

1194
01:18:49,109 --> 01:18:51,530
are not the ones about just 
in a military style,

1195
01:18:51,530 --> 01:18:52,795
telling people what to do,

1196
01:18:52,795 --> 01:18:55,293
but actually about working 
with individuals,

1197
01:18:55,293 --> 01:18:58,439
to lead them and motivate them,
and get the best out of a team.

1198
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:00,864
And this has an impact 
for all of our careers paths.

1199
01:19:00,864 --> 01:19:03,954
You don't just go into one job
and stay there for 40 years.

1200
01:19:03,954 --> 01:19:08,567
And therefore we need to change the way
we are preparing people for this world.

1201
01:19:08,567 --> 01:19:13,675
A lady in the audience mentioned that we 
are, as human beings, naturally adaptive,

1202
01:19:13,675 --> 01:19:18,369
and I would agree we are, but we need 
to be helped to do that even more,

1203
01:19:18,369 --> 01:19:21,078
because we do need to adapt 
more than we did

1204
01:19:21,078 --> 01:19:23,999
when we stayed in one job for 40 years
in our career.

1205
01:19:24,622 --> 01:19:27,993
So that lifelong learning is actually
so important.

1206
01:19:27,993 --> 01:19:30,836
By all means, we should talk about 
what happens in the education system

1207
01:19:30,836 --> 01:19:34,611
but it's just as important for, 
when we're all here in 20 years time

1208
01:19:34,611 --> 01:19:38,515
and we are, you know, trying to keep track
of the world that has suddenly developed.

1209
01:19:38,515 --> 01:19:41,251
We need to find a way 
of staying up to date.

1210
01:19:41,256 --> 01:19:45,517
So, can these skills be taught?
How can these skills be taught?

1211
01:19:45,517 --> 01:19:46,947
Well, they absolutely have to be taught

1212
01:19:46,947 --> 01:19:48,929
so we need to figure out 
the answers to that.

1213
01:19:48,929 --> 01:19:53,166
People need to acquire these skills
and they will need help to do it.

1214
01:19:53,166 --> 01:19:55,315
But that teaching can come 
from a range of sources.

1215
01:19:55,315 --> 01:19:59,989
Of course, the formal education system
but also parents and our peers

1216
01:19:59,989 --> 01:20:03,015
and indeed I would argue, particularly
to the point, in some dimension,

1217
01:20:03,015 --> 01:20:05,144
about all the people in the audience,

1218
01:20:05,144 --> 01:20:08,312
I think, ultimately, one of the ways
21st century skills will be taught

1219
01:20:08,312 --> 01:20:10,159
will be from our children 
and grandchildren.

1220
01:20:10,159 --> 01:20:17,314
Thank you.
(Applause)

1221
01:20:17,314 --> 01:20:19,312
(Moderator) Thank you for that, 
Jo and Pedro,

1222
01:20:19,312 --> 01:20:23,593
and thank you to all our speakers
and thank you for your contributions.

1223
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:30,703
We'll now take a vote on this, so
would all those in favor of the motion:

1224
01:20:30,703 --> 01:20:35,639
"This house believes 21st century skills
aren't being taught and they should be."

1225
01:20:35,639 --> 01:20:40,407
please raise their hand, in the singular:
one hand each.

1226
01:20:41,534 --> 01:20:44,408
Right.That's all those in favor.

1227
01:20:45,123 --> 01:20:47,047
And all those against.

1228
01:20:47,741 --> 01:20:50,515
(Inaudible off voice - laughter)

1229
01:20:50,515 --> 01:20:55,367
(Moderator) That's not --
that is very close but I would say that --

1230
01:20:56,785 --> 01:21:01,548
that the motion is lost on that.
(hooting and clapping)

1231
01:21:01,548 --> 01:21:04,519
I would say I would be happy to --
but only just.

1232
01:21:04,519 --> 01:21:06,955
That's very, very narrow vote.

1233
01:21:06,955 --> 01:21:10,944
So thank you very much indeed 
for all your contributions

1234
01:21:10,944 --> 01:21:16,478
and your attention, and I have a number
of announcements just to make, actually.

1235
01:21:17,366 --> 01:21:23,724
Just to remind you that the Online Educa
OEB party, the Weihnachts Fest

1236
01:21:23,724 --> 01:21:28,818
will take place and the tickets are
on sale at the reception.

1237
01:21:28,818 --> 01:21:32,504
It will take place tonight, 
there'll be food, drink

1238
01:21:32,504 --> 01:21:36,685
and 25 liters of fake snow.
(Laughter)

1239
01:21:36,685 --> 01:21:38,804
So that's something to look forward to.

1240
01:21:39,259 --> 01:21:42,590
The other thing is that many of you
will remember

1241
01:21:42,590 --> 01:21:47,265
our dear friend and colleague Jay Cross,
who died recently.

1242
01:21:47,265 --> 01:21:51,579
And Jay was one of the real stars 
of OEB in the past.

1243
01:21:51,579 --> 01:21:56,610
And I know that he was a great friend to 
many people who attend this conference

1244
01:21:56,610 --> 01:22:00,562
and there is going to be a special session
which will take place now

1245
01:22:00,562 --> 01:22:08,242
in room Potsdam 1, which will look at
Jay Cross's legacy in person and in print

1246
01:22:08,242 --> 01:22:10,918
and this session will feature 
Jay's colleagues

1247
01:22:10,918 --> 01:22:15,173
from the Internet Time Alliance, 
who will remember his influence

1248
01:22:15,173 --> 01:22:16,637
and present his legacy.

1249
01:22:16,637 --> 01:22:21,624
So I do hope you'll take the opportunity
to go along and take part in that session.

1250
01:22:21,624 --> 01:22:24,450
Thank you all very much indeed, 
Ladies and Gentlemen.

1251
01:22:24,450 --> 01:22:26,318
(Applause)

1252
01:22:29,068 --> 01:22:32,927
(Soft music)

1253
01:22:32,927 --> 01:22:35,997
[Recordings of this session will be uploaded to
www.online-educa.com]

1254
01:22:35,997 --> 01:22:39,427
[Recording is provided by Presentations 200
Making Video Reality]