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♪ [ Philip Glass – “Runaway Horses”
(Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters) ] ♪
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OK, everybody. Welcome back to
another episode of Porkins Policy Radio.
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As always, I am your host Pearse Redmond,
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and you can find this podcast
and all the other podcasts
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by going to porkinspolicyreview.wordpress.com
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Well, today we have a very special episode,
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and we have two very special guests.
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And we're going to be discussing The Lone Gladio,
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Sibel Edmond's new novel, in greater detail,
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As well as exploring some of the
intricacies
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of Gladio Plan B in general.
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And joining me for this epic
roundtable discussion on this
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is, of course, our good friend and
frequent guest on the show Tom Secker
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from SpyCulture.com and the
host of ClandesTime.
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And also joining us all the way
on the West Coast
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in what has become the newest state
to legalize marijuana
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is our wonderful, wonderful guest
who's been on the show recently
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and that is, of course, the creator
and founder of BoilingFrogsPost.com
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and the author of The Lone Gladio,
Sibel Edmonds
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So Sibel, Tom: Thank you for joining
me on the show today.
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(Tom) Hi, thank you.
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(Sibel) Good to be talking to you both.
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(Pearse) Yeah, absolutely. So, basically
me and Tom just wanted to ask you
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about a million more questions
that we didn't get to
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when we both interviewed you
for our respective shows
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So... and I guess... Tom, why don't you
start the conversation off?
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(Tom) Sure. Well, I only have...
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Well, I managed to whittle it down to two
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that I didn't get to ask you before,
Sibel.
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Because we were talking about,
essentially,
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how your book The Lone Gladio
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Subverts an awful lot of the
normal spy fiction.
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And that's because it's doing
something vastly different.
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It's, in many ways, an attack on
the security state.
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Rather than some kind of defense of it
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or glorification of it, which is
what you normally get.
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And we picked up on... sorry,
on various different things.
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And there were a couple that I
didn't get around to asking you about.
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So the first one is this question of
rogue agents.
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Because in the book, the protagonist,
the titular Lone Gladio, Greg,
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He goes rogue and wreaks this havoc
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against his former colleagues,
his former paymasters
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And normally in spy culture,
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the rogue agent is portrayed
as the bad apple, right?
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The exception to the normal
state of affairs.
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Sort of they're the bad people
within a good institution.
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That's the usual picture you get.
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Whereas in your book, in The Lone Gladio
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Greg is a... I hesitate to say
a good apple...
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[laughter] but he's somewhat good.
He does do good things.
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He does protect people
that need protecting
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and that deserve to be protected.
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Things like that.
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Some of his...
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some of the torture sequences,
one might debate. [laughter]
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[xx] how good these things are
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but nonetheless, he is a somewhat
good apple, if you like
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within the bad institution.
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So once again, this is a
complete inversion
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and reinvention of a stereotype
in spy stories.
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And yet you've said in other interviews
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that Greg is somewhat based on real people
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real black operatives that
you've met along the way
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and had conversations with
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and to some extent got to know what
kind of people they are.
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So my question -- and I hope this
isn't too cheeky --
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is how realistic is Greg?
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How realistic is it that one day,
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there might be a real Lone Gladio?
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(Sibel) Well, you may call it
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to some degree, a wishful thinking.
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Because we haven't had a real-life
Greg MacPherson
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Despite all the publicized, many of them totally scripted
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supposed CIA whistleblowers
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or people who have turned against
the CIA to a certain degree.
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We have never had a real Greg from
the Agency
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from the CIA
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And also, to answer your question,
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the first part of your question,
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my feeling and my knowledge,
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based on my knowledge, what I have seen,
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has been that many of these
mass-market books
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the spy thrillers involving the Agency,
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they are the ones that always
subvert the reality
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meaning, what really these people do
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and the culture of the agency
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who the agency actually serves,
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it's not the American people.
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And it's not even the United States
government.
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So it goes to the heart of the Deep State.
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Those people who benefit from
the Agency, from the CIA
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and whom the Agency really serves.
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So all the books that we see out there,
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the Hollywood-made movies,
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they subvert the facts, the reality
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of what the Agency is about.
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And because of this, all average Americans
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or even people in Europe,
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most people, they have
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a complete false notion of
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what the CIA is all about.
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Now, this is actually to a lesser degree
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or even, maybe, not even in any degree
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in countries that have been the targets
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of all these types of CIA,
the Agency's, operations.
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Because if you go and talk with people
in countries like Iran,
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the 1953 coup with Mossadeq
being taken out
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and Shah being placed in there.
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If you go to some of the Central
American, South American nations
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because they have, these countries
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-- in Middle East, in South and
Central America --
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since they have had first-hand
experience, real experience
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of what CIA actually does,
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they are not under this false notion.
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And you can engage in some
really heated conversation
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with people in these countries
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with notions that they put forward
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that are far more realistic, factual,
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than, let's say, when you talk with
people in the United States.
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So I would put it this way:
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I would say I subverted the
subverted notion
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of the Agency and the Agency people.
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And you're absolutely right about Greg.
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It's hard to call him a good person,
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or the good apple,
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but the book and the characters
in the book
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they go into the heart of what
the Agency is about
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what kind of people
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are selected to be operatives.
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And of course, the fictional aspect being
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all it takes is one or two real good
apples to actually,
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truly expose what the Agency's about
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and the operations, their objectives,
and who they serve.
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And we haven't had, to date,
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such a good apple.
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And it's really, really amazing.
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For me, it's really amazing.
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But then, on the other hand,
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it may go to this whole notion of
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the chicken or the egg.
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In this way: that... well, to start with,
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the poeple they select for these jobs
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the operatives -- I'm not talking about
the administrative people or analysts --
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to start with are the kind of people
who would never
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become those good apples that
they would step out
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and go all the way into exposing
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what the Agency is about.
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I mean, this fact applies to
a lesser degree
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to agencies like, more law enforcement,
the FBI
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even though I'm not saying that
they are good,
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but we have had whistleblowers,
or some good apples,
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that have really exposed some
major black deeds
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performed or implemented
by these agencies.
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But not really with the CIA.
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And some people may say,
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"Oh, here we have had this agents,
or that agents,"
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and if you look at these so-called,
supposed whistleblowers,
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you see how controlled
heir supposed exposure
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or exposing of the agency is.
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First of all, you get to see them
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within the mainstream media, frequently.
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Which tells you right there that they are
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not exposing the Agency.
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They would never get a chance
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to be before millions of audience
within the mainstream media
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putting forth some factual...
or some facts
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that expose the true nature of the Agency.
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They would never, ever be given
that kind of a chance.
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It doesn't happen.
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It has never happend.
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It really hasn't happened.
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You'll see some people who would
talk about how
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the Agency is, by doing this
particular thing,
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in this particular way...
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or people who are selling the notion
of, yes, there are a few bad apples
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within the Agencies who are doing
this, within the management.
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But this is similar to what people call
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the controlled opposition.
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It is tightly framed to further, still
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the Agency's legitimacy -- which is,
they are not legitimate.
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And then within that tight frame,
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put forth some very shallow criticism
of some agencies.
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And then, later on,
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if you see, it's usually blamed
on a President
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or a particular party
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rather than going to the Deep State
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whom the Agency is there
to protect and further their agenda,
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not some puppet President, or some party.
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Or... it boils down to some director
not being good, being the bad apple.
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I mean, these are all the false notions
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that have been popularized
by the mainstream media.
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By all the books that subvert
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what the Agency is about
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And alternative media as well,
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the so-called "alternative"media.
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A lot of them, they parrot the
same notion,
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-- maybe they put it forth in a
more heated manner --
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but in the end, they are actually
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repeating the same storyline.
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Within the storyline, some plots
are maybe targeted and criticized,
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but not the story itself.
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Well, I mean, you're absolutely
right there, I think.
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And when you were talking about
how this was...
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whenever you do get any kind
of significant revelation,
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it's always wrapped up in a
"Oh, well, this was just"
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"the policy of this particular
White House"
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"Or it was because there was
a bad director of the CIA at that point"
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"or..." there's never any kind of sense
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of this being a fundamental,
institutional problem
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at... a fundamental problem
in the character
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of the CIA and other similar institutions.
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And I was thinking, they've even tried
this with the original Gladio.
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That, this was always the way it was
[xx] out there
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by anyone who was insincere.
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Was that, "Oh, this was just some
stay-behind thing."
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"It was Cold War paranoia.
Nothing really came of it."
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And they ignore that second phase
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of the original Gladio
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where it became this very aggressive means
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of carrying out false-flag terrorism.
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And they sort of pretend like
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that never actually happened.
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They say, oh, this was some...
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oh, we were all worried about
Stalin or whatever.
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It's just written off in that way,
the original Gladio.
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(Tom) Yeah, sure.
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So, I mean, that's one of the things,
I suppose,
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that I loved about The Lone Gladio
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is that, not only are you kind of throwing
all of that bullshit out the window,
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you're actually talking about
more or less the present day.
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I mean, it's set about ten years ago, OK,
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but it's the modern era.
It's the War on Terror era.
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(Sibel) Absolutely.
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(Tom) So you're cutting right to the heart
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of the modern-day reality
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and my other question is kind of
related to that.
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And I'm not in any way trying to get you
00:13:13.470 --> 00:13:14.859
to contradict yourself here.
00:13:14.859 --> 00:13:17.314
But we do also have the question
of blowback.
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Because in some ways, that's what Greg
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and his crusade of violence represents.
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He is, to some extent,
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the unintended consequence
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of these black operations
00:13:27.508 --> 00:13:30.375
Both in terms of his motivation
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-- his wife is killed, essentially,
accidentally, or at least carelessly:
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they weren't trying to kill her --
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And yet that's his...
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that's at least the point at which
he then decides
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it's time to wreak havoc against them.
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I know your opinion of blowback
is roughly the same as mine,
00:13:46.262 --> 00:13:47.968
that, again, it's one of these things
that's hung out there
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to cover up something that would
otherwise be quite damaging.
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Sometimes black operations do go bad.
00:13:54.912 --> 00:13:56.864
And unintended things happen
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but in general terms, blowback is
just one of those covers.
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It's a smokescreen.
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It's..."the mujahideen in Afghanistan"
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"evolved into al-Qaeda completely
by accident." [laughter]
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We've sort of accidentally
let this happen.
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We took our eye off the ball,
blah-blah-blah.
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It's totally untrue.
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Of course, we know it's totally untrue.
00:14:16.942 --> 00:14:19.626
And so I found it quite fascinating,
that...
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knowing that your opinion
of blowback is quite similar to mine
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if not the same as mine
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that this same basic idea forms
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such a central part of the story
00:14:30.550 --> 00:14:32.139
in The Lone Gladio.
00:14:32.139 --> 00:14:37.615
I mean, it's not a sort of explanation
that you take all that seriously
00:14:37.615 --> 00:14:39.112
for real events, is it?
00:14:39.112 --> 00:14:42.815
But there, again, I suppose you're
being quite subversive.
00:14:42.815 --> 00:14:47.409
Because instead of using blowback as a
way of covering up for black operations,
00:14:47.409 --> 00:14:52.140
this story of Greg's retribution
against the Company
00:14:52.140 --> 00:14:56.252
is actually his sort of means of
exposing them.
00:14:56.252 --> 00:14:59.924
That's, I suppose, what... the overall
point of this book was
00:14:59.924 --> 00:15:01.588
was to try and expose the reality
00:15:01.588 --> 00:15:02.799
and in doing so, that meant you simply
00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:06.114
had to subvert the usual way in which
these things worked
00:15:06.114 --> 00:15:09.320
and therefore had to subvert
even the concept of blowback.
00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:17.022
I suppose... OK, my question: is this
something that you did consciously,
00:15:17.022 --> 00:15:22.215
or am I letting the literary analyst
inside me get a bit carried away here?
00:15:22.215 --> 00:15:26.795
(Sibel) Um, no. Absolutely, absolutely.
First of all, you're absolutely right:
00:15:26.795 --> 00:15:30.248
it is based on the notion of blowback
00:15:30.248 --> 00:15:33.358
and in this case, it's a real blowback.
00:15:33.358 --> 00:15:36.203
And that is: unintended consequences.
00:15:36.203 --> 00:15:41.579
Because, as we know, Greg's woman
00:15:41.579 --> 00:15:45.418
was killed purely accidentally.
00:15:45.418 --> 00:15:49.787
So that was not designed by the powers
00:15:49.787 --> 00:15:54.467
to get this reaction and this outcome
00:15:54.467 --> 00:15:58.800
that is brought forth by Greg.
Because he starts the mission.
00:15:58.800 --> 00:16:01.165
And there are two things that
are happening.
00:16:01.165 --> 00:16:03.730
There are two things that are
motivating Greg.
00:16:03.730 --> 00:16:08.388
One, of course, we are talking
about this Great Terror Event in 2001.
00:16:08.388 --> 00:16:10.571
In the US.
00:16:10.571 --> 00:16:16.920
And he was outside that highly-
compartmentalized operation
00:16:16.920 --> 00:16:22.328
to execute this, this false-flag operation
in the home front
00:16:22.328 --> 00:16:25.073
in the United States, on the US soil.
00:16:25.073 --> 00:16:30.276
And he realizes this as it happens,
and it's reported
00:16:30.276 --> 00:16:33.160
by the tentacles of the Gladios.
00:16:33.160 --> 00:16:41.667
This is the CNN and BBC, or BCB,
as they are listed there
00:16:41.667 --> 00:16:43.304
it may be a little bit cheesy [laughter]
00:16:43.304 --> 00:16:44.337
But... so...
00:16:44.337 --> 00:16:51.389
That is when it makes Greg stop and think
00:16:51.389 --> 00:16:54.920
and the blowback doesn't begin here
00:16:54.920 --> 00:16:59.115
but the roots, or the seeds, are
planted there.
00:16:59.115 --> 00:17:04.137
Because he is, himself, a highly unusual,
00:17:04.137 --> 00:17:05.766
eccentric character
00:17:05.766 --> 00:17:10.914
with some dark, to a certain degree
sad background
00:17:10.914 --> 00:17:12.847
that I don't get into in this book.
00:17:12.847 --> 00:17:18.135
It will, hopefully, once I write and if I
write the second book
00:17:18.135 --> 00:17:21.585
will get more into Greg's childhood
00:17:21.585 --> 00:17:27.870
and what started his intense hatred
of Russians and everything Russian.
00:17:27.870 --> 00:17:31.011
And that's one of the repeating
themes there.
00:17:31.011 --> 00:17:33.347
And that has been one of the driving force
00:17:33.347 --> 00:17:35.537
for a lot of things that he has
done in life.
00:17:35.537 --> 00:17:40.802
But in all this, this... for this
operation, false-flag
00:17:40.802 --> 00:17:44.651
taking place in the US, that begins
the process.
00:17:44.651 --> 00:17:49.311
It plants the seed, and then the
catalyst, of course,
00:17:49.311 --> 00:17:53.272
two years later, becomes his
woman accidentally
00:17:53.272 --> 00:17:56.695
taken out by the Agency
00:17:56.695 --> 00:17:59.927
So that basically triggers
all these actions.
00:17:59.927 --> 00:18:01.784
And again, that was unintended.
00:18:01.784 --> 00:18:05.178
So that's a true blowback right there.
00:18:05.178 --> 00:18:09.488
And you used the word "intended,"
and that is very, very important.
00:18:09.488 --> 00:18:11.531
It's the key word, because
00:18:11.531 --> 00:18:15.347
for a blowback to be really a blowback,
00:18:15.347 --> 00:18:18.640
the consequences have to be unintended.
00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:22.978
And with these operations themselves,
00:18:22.978 --> 00:18:25.377
the black ops, the false-flag operations,
00:18:25.377 --> 00:18:30.519
the recruitment and the training
of these terrorists,
00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:35.059
in this case we had a black widow
who's a Chechen,
00:18:35.059 --> 00:18:40.377
who's Chechen, in Azerbaijan
00:18:40.377 --> 00:18:45.804
and those operations are the
false-flag operations
00:18:45.804 --> 00:18:49.018
with intended consequences.
00:18:49.018 --> 00:18:51.803
With intended consequences
00:18:51.803 --> 00:18:55.938
therefore, anything that results
from those operations
00:18:55.938 --> 00:18:59.349
cannot in any way be considered blowback.
00:18:59.349 --> 00:19:02.534
Because when you look at, let's say
00:19:02.534 --> 00:19:04.842
a certain group being put in place,
00:19:04.842 --> 00:19:08.356
trained, armed, directed, managed,
00:19:08.356 --> 00:19:11.754
to execute a certain terror operation,
00:19:11.754 --> 00:19:15.116
whether it's in Russia or if it's
in Syria,
00:19:15.116 --> 00:19:16.645
and if it's in Iraq,
00:19:16.645 --> 00:19:19.236
executing that terror operation
00:19:19.236 --> 00:19:24.398
is only a part of the intended results,
00:19:24.398 --> 00:19:29.016
the objectives, the means to get
to the objectives.
00:19:29.016 --> 00:19:33.498
It's not all of consequences
taking place afterwards:
00:19:33.498 --> 00:19:37.034
those are the intended consequences.
00:19:37.034 --> 00:19:39.302
So, let me give you an example.
00:19:39.302 --> 00:19:43.943
For example, let's say when you
train the Chechens,
00:19:43.943 --> 00:19:45.384
a group of Chechens,
00:19:45.384 --> 00:19:47.391
and arm them, and drug them,
00:19:47.391 --> 00:19:51.223
and indoctrinate them, and manage them,
00:19:51.223 --> 00:19:55.062
and say, "You're gonna go and blow
up this in this part of Russia,"
00:19:55.062 --> 00:19:55.961
for example.
00:19:55.961 --> 00:20:01.134
Well, the first result of it is, OK,
this horrible terror incident happens
00:20:01.134 --> 00:20:02.658
in that particular city
00:20:02.658 --> 00:20:05.807
or targeting this particular school,
et cetera.
00:20:05.807 --> 00:20:11.161
Now, what happens next is what
is the intended consequence.
00:20:11.161 --> 00:20:14.604
And that is to get Russia to react to it,
00:20:14.604 --> 00:20:17.339
and to react to it, hopefully,
dramatically.
00:20:17.339 --> 00:20:23.099
Emotionally, and start rounding up
hundreds of Chechens,
00:20:23.099 --> 00:20:28.278
putting them in jail, or actually going
and shooting 150 Chechens, right?
00:20:28.278 --> 00:20:32.465
And that, in return, turning around
and causing this...
00:20:32.465 --> 00:20:33.952
more attacks over there.
00:20:33.952 --> 00:20:37.950
Then, you start getting closer and closer
00:20:37.950 --> 00:20:39.865
to the intended consequences.
00:20:39.865 --> 00:20:42.511
The intended consequence in executing
00:20:42.511 --> 00:20:45.308
this particular terror operation,
this part of it
00:20:45.308 --> 00:20:46.673
where something is blown up
00:20:46.673 --> 00:20:48.649
and you have 100 people dying,
00:20:48.649 --> 00:20:50.454
is not the first intent,
00:20:50.454 --> 00:20:52.671
the most important objective here.
00:20:52.671 --> 00:20:58.579
That is a way to get the following
five or six consequent events,
00:20:58.579 --> 00:21:00.238
which are intended,
00:21:00.238 --> 00:21:02.982
to cause that chaos,
00:21:02.982 --> 00:21:07.169
to cause that certain sect going
after another sect
00:21:07.169 --> 00:21:11.698
to cause for that to actually become
even more,
00:21:11.698 --> 00:21:13.652
explode even further
00:21:13.652 --> 00:21:16.382
and affect a neighboring country.
00:21:16.382 --> 00:21:18.928
Let's say, if it's in Syria, something
is happening
00:21:18.928 --> 00:21:20.937
with Jordan, and then
00:21:20.937 --> 00:21:22.304
this happens in the border,
00:21:22.304 --> 00:21:24.909
and you have, let's say, maybe half
a million refugees
00:21:24.909 --> 00:21:25.978
getting to this country.
00:21:25.978 --> 00:21:27.828
Those in the media,
00:21:27.828 --> 00:21:32.375
and then these so-called CIA analysts
they are talking about,
00:21:32.375 --> 00:21:37.206
they are always represented
and presented to the viewers
00:21:37.206 --> 00:21:39.613
as the unintended consequences.
00:21:39.613 --> 00:21:40.804
I mean, they don't even say, "
00:21:40.804 --> 00:21:42.915
"OK, we did help blow this thing up."
00:21:42.915 --> 00:21:44.847
But let's say they armed it,
and we didn't know.
00:21:44.847 --> 00:21:46.812
The usual storyline.
00:21:46.812 --> 00:21:49.574
"And look, all these things happen,
and they're horrifying"
00:21:49.574 --> 00:21:52.796
while all along the intended consequences
00:21:52.796 --> 00:21:57.377
are events that take place long after,
let's say,
00:21:57.377 --> 00:21:59.054
a building being blown up
00:21:59.054 --> 00:22:00.834
or 50 people getting killed.
00:22:00.834 --> 00:22:03.335
And that's what we are talking about.
00:22:03.335 --> 00:22:08.012
And in no way those can be considered
as blowback
00:22:08.012 --> 00:22:10.144
because they are absolutely intended.
00:22:10.144 --> 00:22:13.759
Because when that chaos is taking place,
00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:16.477
then the next things comes as
a result of that,
00:22:16.477 --> 00:22:19.420
and then these other two countries
get involved,
00:22:19.420 --> 00:22:23.264
and as a result of that, let's say,
another country which says,
00:22:23.264 --> 00:22:26.108
"You know what? Now we are really going
to, let's say,"
00:22:26.108 --> 00:22:29.333
"put our candidacy to become a member
of NATO."
00:22:29.333 --> 00:22:32.000
And as a result of that, this and this
happens.
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:33.519
It's like a chess board.
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:38.594
And you want to look at the move
that's gonna come
00:22:38.594 --> 00:22:40.655
eight moves after the first move
00:22:40.655 --> 00:22:45.615
in order to go and execute, or achieve
what you want to achieve.
00:22:45.615 --> 00:22:48.312
Not the first, initial things that
take place
00:22:48.312 --> 00:22:50.169
with the first or the second move.
00:22:50.169 --> 00:22:53.390
And for those to be considered blowback,
00:22:53.390 --> 00:22:55.073
is the fiction that, unfortunately,
00:22:55.073 --> 00:22:58.358
almost everyone -- except for you guys
00:22:58.358 --> 00:23:03.660
and a handful of other who I call
the Irate Minority
00:23:03.660 --> 00:23:06.521
real informed people, people don't know.
00:23:06.521 --> 00:23:10.192
And I always try to give these
examples and say,
00:23:10.192 --> 00:23:14.197
if a certain action, modus operandi
00:23:14.197 --> 00:23:17.053
results in unintended consequences...
00:23:17.053 --> 00:23:23.111
Let's say this was talked about
a lot after 9/11, saying...
00:23:23.111 --> 00:23:26.153
"Oh, well, we supported the
mujahideens in Afghanistan."
00:23:26.153 --> 00:23:30.888
"In early '80s, late '70s. We armed them,
we trained them."
00:23:30.888 --> 00:23:33.975
"Including Osama Bin Laden;
including Zawahiri."
00:23:33.975 --> 00:23:37.090
And then those people turned around
00:23:37.090 --> 00:23:39.354
and started doing these kinds of things.
00:23:39.354 --> 00:23:40.971
And those were unintended.
00:23:40.971 --> 00:23:42.696
So let's say what they say
00:23:42.696 --> 00:23:45.623
-- this is the Deep State; this is
the mainstream media;
00:23:45.623 --> 00:23:48.127
this is the so-called CIA analyst,
00:23:48.127 --> 00:23:53.272
these are the so-called CIA dissenters
such as people like Mike Scheuer --
00:23:53.272 --> 00:23:58.993
anonymously writing the
blowback-related stories, fiction,
00:23:58.993 --> 00:24:00.885
being marketed as non-fiction,
00:24:00.885 --> 00:24:03.395
let's say if they were true, OK?
00:24:03.395 --> 00:24:06.020
Well, think about it: any person,
00:24:06.020 --> 00:24:11.477
any sane person, average normal
person, would say,
00:24:11.477 --> 00:24:14.999
"I did this, and these things came
out of it -- unintended things."
00:24:14.999 --> 00:24:20.597
So, you learn a lesson: you don't go
and repeat it ten times again
00:24:20.597 --> 00:24:23.958
after seeing these supposed
unintended consequences.
00:24:23.958 --> 00:24:27.431
But on the other hand, if you look
at the reality
00:24:27.431 --> 00:24:31.051
and say, OK, for the past 30 or 40 years,
00:24:31.051 --> 00:24:36.018
how we repeat exactly the same script,
the same scenario,
00:24:36.018 --> 00:24:37.887
the same operations,
00:24:37.887 --> 00:24:41.998
and getting the similar kind of blowback,
00:24:41.998 --> 00:24:44.885
the reactions, eight steps later,
00:24:44.885 --> 00:24:47.861
then you have to stop and say,
00:24:47.861 --> 00:24:50.645
"Well, really, is that unintended?"
00:24:50.645 --> 00:24:52.607
Because as the saying goes,
00:24:52.607 --> 00:24:54.123
"Fool me once, shame on you."
00:24:54.123 --> 00:24:56.028
"Fool me twice, shame on me."
00:24:56.028 --> 00:24:58.155
I mean, you can't keep doing
the same thing.
00:24:58.155 --> 00:25:01.126
You do that with mujahideen:
"Oops! Blowback!"
00:25:01.126 --> 00:25:03.440
Then you go and you get these cells
00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:05.687
you take then to Turkey from Syria
00:25:05.687 --> 00:25:07.642
-- These cells from Syria --
00:25:07.642 --> 00:25:09.081
You train them, you arm them,
00:25:09.081 --> 00:25:11.622
you put them there, back into Syria.
00:25:11.622 --> 00:25:13.930
You do the same thing with another cell:
00:25:13.930 --> 00:25:16.470
take them to Jordan, train and arm them,
put there,
00:25:16.470 --> 00:25:18.739
knowing that, OK, they have...
00:25:18.739 --> 00:25:22.790
or selecting, intentionally, extremists.
00:25:22.790 --> 00:25:25.056
And then events take place, and say,
00:25:25.056 --> 00:25:27.776
"Oops! That was unintended."
00:25:27.776 --> 00:25:31.961
"Because our intention was getting
this, really, just like mujahideen"
00:25:31.961 --> 00:25:35.953
And all the other groups that
we have used,
00:25:35.953 --> 00:25:38.352
we consider them the freedom fighters.
00:25:38.352 --> 00:25:44.948
For how long the United States
media glorified the mujahideen
00:25:44.948 --> 00:25:51.083
That includes Osama bin Laden as
their commando, Zawahiri, in the '80s.
00:25:51.083 --> 00:25:55.594
If you go and get the archives
-- the newspaper articles, OK? --
00:25:55.594 --> 00:25:58.582
all the clips from NPR, from CNN,
00:25:58.582 --> 00:26:01.723
what you see is, they were glorified.
00:26:01.723 --> 00:26:05.563
Nobody even put anything like
"Islamists" or "extremists"
00:26:05.563 --> 00:26:09.275
or any of those adjectives in
association with these people.
00:26:09.275 --> 00:26:10.999
They were the great freedom fighters.
00:26:10.999 --> 00:26:15.418
They made Americans, all of them,
cheer for mujahideen.
00:26:15.418 --> 00:26:19.975
The fact that they had... they were
stoning women, or doing...
00:26:19.975 --> 00:26:22.949
which they did, during those
years as well.
00:26:22.949 --> 00:26:26.301
They were never exposed,
because those were irrelevant.
00:26:26.301 --> 00:26:29.425
They were the glorified freedom fighters.
00:26:29.425 --> 00:26:31.479
Liberation armies, right?
00:26:31.479 --> 00:26:33.752
And then, lo and behold:
00:26:33.752 --> 00:26:39.109
one day they all turned to these awful,
ferocious terrorists and al-Qaeda.
00:26:39.109 --> 00:26:43.179
And their commandos became
the top terrorists in the world,
00:26:43.179 --> 00:26:47.754
with these extreme belief
system and religious...
00:26:47.754 --> 00:26:52.430
all those things happen: "Oops!"
Those were like, "Ooh, we were caught"
00:26:52.430 --> 00:26:56.786
"and we were shocked;
and we were so surprised"
00:26:56.786 --> 00:26:57.802
-- supposedly.
00:26:57.802 --> 00:26:59.918
Again, we are doing the same thing.
00:26:59.918 --> 00:27:01.260
We have been doing the same things.
00:27:01.260 --> 00:27:04.423
Take these people, arm them,
train them, manage them.
00:27:04.423 --> 00:27:06.878
And then later come and say, "Oops!"
00:27:06.878 --> 00:27:08.514
"Look at what these people are doing."
00:27:08.514 --> 00:27:09.919
"They are extremists. We did not..."
00:27:09.919 --> 00:27:13.534
"We did not account for these
kinds of reaction,"
00:27:13.534 --> 00:27:15.689
"and these kinds of practices
by these people."
00:27:15.689 --> 00:27:19.932
So therefore, in no way these operations
00:27:19.932 --> 00:27:22.102
and the consequences of the operations,
00:27:22.102 --> 00:27:25.032
can be considered blowback.
00:27:25.032 --> 00:27:29.111
And then, the lastly, the most
important thing to look at is:
00:27:29.111 --> 00:27:33.613
Who benefits? Who benefits
from these operations?
00:27:33.613 --> 00:27:35.815
And the intended consequences.
00:27:35.815 --> 00:27:39.701
Well, whoever is the puppet President
00:27:39.701 --> 00:27:42.426
--whether it's Obama or Reagan --
00:27:42.426 --> 00:27:45.532
they don't really, personally benefit
from these.
00:27:45.532 --> 00:27:46.654
It's not about the President.
00:27:46.654 --> 00:27:51.035
it's not about a political party,
or the Republican Party:
00:27:51.035 --> 00:27:53.138
because of that, they got rich
or they became powerful.
00:27:53.138 --> 00:27:56.840
No. So that... those are not the
beneficiaries.
00:27:56.840 --> 00:27:58.591
So the people on the ground,
00:27:58.591 --> 00:28:03.015
people in Syria, or people in Afghanistan,
00:28:03.015 --> 00:28:03.900
they're not the beneficiaries.
00:28:03.900 --> 00:28:05.314
their homes have been wrecked,
00:28:05.314 --> 00:28:08.584
and they have lost tens of thousands
of people.
00:28:08.584 --> 00:28:11.473
The American people haven't been
better off.
00:28:11.473 --> 00:28:15.456
And either financially or security-wise.
00:28:15.456 --> 00:28:18.163
So take the American people's
interests out of the equation.
00:28:18.163 --> 00:28:19.980
Then you look at the map,
00:28:19.980 --> 00:28:21.846
you look at the situation, and say,
00:28:21.846 --> 00:28:25.203
who has become richer and more powerful,
00:28:25.203 --> 00:28:29.249
as a result of this.
00:28:29.249 --> 00:28:33.382
And what you see is, "Oh, look at this."
00:28:33.382 --> 00:28:38.467
Without these wars, the sales and
the stock prices
00:28:38.467 --> 00:28:40.561
for the military-industrial complex
00:28:40.561 --> 00:28:41.985
would just plunge. I mean,
00:28:41.985 --> 00:28:44.972
think about a scenario where we
don't have these wars.
00:28:44.972 --> 00:28:47.026
We are not engaged in Syria
and Afghanistan,
00:28:47.026 --> 00:28:49.361
and with the drones in Pakistan and Yemen.
00:28:49.361 --> 00:28:52.775
Who are they gonna sell it to,
these drones and bombs?
00:28:52.775 --> 00:28:55.654
And then, when you look at NATO,
00:28:55.654 --> 00:28:58.917
and you look at the militaristic
expansion,
00:28:58.917 --> 00:29:01.885
and, let's say, with 9/11,
00:29:01.885 --> 00:29:05.779
before 9/11, how many bases did
we have in the region?
00:29:05.779 --> 00:29:11.417
Whether it's in Eastern Europe, or
you're looking at nations like Azerbaijan,
00:29:11.417 --> 00:29:15.557
I know they shut it down, but Manas
Airbase in Kyrgyzstan:
00:29:15.557 --> 00:29:17.146
look at how close they are to Russia.
00:29:17.146 --> 00:29:19.787
Now, what made these possible
00:29:19.787 --> 00:29:23.205
was the event that took place here,
00:29:23.205 --> 00:29:26.465
the operation that took place here
in the United States, 9/11
00:29:26.465 --> 00:29:31.749
that gave us that legitimacy
-- even though it's not legitimate --
00:29:31.749 --> 00:29:34.596
to say, "OK, we don't have the Cold War,"
00:29:34.596 --> 00:29:35.893
"We don't have Russia,"
00:29:35.893 --> 00:29:39.337
"but we need to expand our bases
and take over these countries."
00:29:39.337 --> 00:29:41.625
Again, those countries, with our
military bases
00:29:41.625 --> 00:29:45.375
in order to protect ourselves again
a new enemy
00:29:45.375 --> 00:29:47.880
the enemy that we create, put in place,
and manage.
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:51.447
So therefore, that's when
you're looking at
00:29:51.447 --> 00:29:53.538
the intended consequences
00:29:53.538 --> 00:29:55.221
War, and who benefits from that.
00:29:55.221 --> 00:30:00.444
How many military bases Russia
has put in place,
00:30:00.444 --> 00:30:02.036
created, put in place,
00:30:02.036 --> 00:30:03.936
since the Cold War ended?
00:30:03.936 --> 00:30:08.418
How many military bases China
has put in place, created
00:30:08.418 --> 00:30:09.996
and expanded and...
00:30:09.996 --> 00:30:11.246
you don't see these.
00:30:11.246 --> 00:30:13.178
But take a look at the United States,
00:30:13.178 --> 00:30:20.665
and then start putting it with the
cover, legitimacy that they have done.
00:30:20.665 --> 00:30:23.573
It's always in the name of a great enemy
00:30:23.573 --> 00:30:25.605
that we have militaristically
00:30:25.605 --> 00:30:28.604
put these bases in these countries,
00:30:28.604 --> 00:30:31.001
taken over these countries
and their regimes,
00:30:31.001 --> 00:30:32.370
or installing their regimes.
00:30:32.370 --> 00:30:35.300
Therefore, without these operations,
00:30:35.300 --> 00:30:37.703
without these wars, without
these consequences,
00:30:37.703 --> 00:30:38.770
we couldn't.
00:30:38.770 --> 00:30:42.348
So this is how you, or anyone, could start
00:30:42.348 --> 00:30:45.085
putting the two and two together, and say,
00:30:45.085 --> 00:30:50.115
my father always taught me this,
when I was six, seven, eight years old.
00:30:50.115 --> 00:30:52.215
He said, "Whenever you look at any wars,"
00:30:52.215 --> 00:30:55.188
"really look and see
who benefits from it."
00:30:55.188 --> 00:30:57.401
And it's never the case of people.
00:30:57.401 --> 00:31:01.361
It's not ever the case of those,
let's say, American soldiers
00:31:01.361 --> 00:31:03.571
who are losing their lives doing these
00:31:03.571 --> 00:31:05.473
atrocious things overseas.
00:31:05.473 --> 00:31:07.081
Then who benefits/
00:31:07.081 --> 00:31:09.022
And once you get that answer
00:31:09.022 --> 00:31:11.302
and start to pinpoint the beneficiaries,
00:31:11.302 --> 00:31:15.875
that's when you can in-depth,
truly understand
00:31:15.875 --> 00:31:21.290
what these wars, or these terror
incidents, or these conflicts are about.
00:31:21.290 --> 00:31:23.762
That was a long answer. [laughter]
00:31:23.762 --> 00:31:28.874
(Tom) Well, yeah. And I suppose I'll
just hand you over to Pearse here.
00:31:28.874 --> 00:31:31.990
Because I could pick up on a dozen
things that you just said.
00:31:31.990 --> 00:31:36.754
Pearse, I know you wanted to kind of
carry on on this topic of...
00:31:36.754 --> 00:31:37.667
(Pearse) Yeah.
00:31:37.667 --> 00:31:38.550
(Tom) Not necessarily blowback, but,
00:31:38.550 --> 00:31:40.967
consequences of where this
thing's going.
00:31:40.967 --> 00:31:43.803
(Pearse) Well, yeah, I guess with
everything that you've just been saying, Sibel,
00:31:43.803 --> 00:31:48.370
and taking The Lone Gladio
as kind of a road map for how this works
00:31:48.370 --> 00:31:50.950
-- and again, it takes place around 2003,
00:31:50.950 --> 00:31:53.394
so we can see how this is
starting to form --
00:31:53.394 --> 00:31:56.328
but it seems that right now we're
sort of starting
00:31:56.328 --> 00:31:59.053
to reach a new level, perhaps
00:31:59.053 --> 00:32:00.867
within the Gladio operation.
00:32:00.867 --> 00:32:04.203
And I guess my big question is,
00:32:04.203 --> 00:32:07.170
what is the end-game scenario
for Gladio B?
00:32:07.170 --> 00:32:09.000
Or, even if there is one?
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:10.044
Because at some point
00:32:10.044 --> 00:32:12.859
-- it's already happening to a
slight degree
00:32:12.859 --> 00:32:14.914
in places like Azerbaijan or Kyrgyzstan --
00:32:14.914 --> 00:32:18.604
we're seeing a lot of these mercenaries
trained by NATO returning.
00:32:18.604 --> 00:32:22.375
Now, if one of the major goals of Gladio B
00:32:22.375 --> 00:32:25.686
is the exploitation of natural resources,
00:32:25.686 --> 00:32:26.819
like oil and gas,
00:32:26.819 --> 00:32:28.819
and about encircling Russia,
00:32:28.819 --> 00:32:31.931
how are... at what point does this
become untenable
00:32:31.931 --> 00:32:36.745
if you've got these jihadis running
all over the place?
00:32:36.745 --> 00:32:39.237
And kind of fleshing that out
a little bit,
00:32:39.237 --> 00:32:42.627
a lot of The Lone Gladio revolves
around Turkey.
00:32:42.627 --> 00:32:45.974
And I was recently talking with
Christoph Germann on our new show,
00:32:45.974 --> 00:32:49.167
and he was mentioning that more
and more analysts
00:32:49.167 --> 00:32:51.870
are starting to come around to the idea
00:32:51.870 --> 00:32:55.100
that Turkey is entering this
Pakistan-ization
00:32:55.100 --> 00:32:59.352
where it's being broken up into
these little areas
00:32:59.352 --> 00:33:02.452
like Gaziantep or Hatay, which
are right on the border
00:33:02.452 --> 00:33:05.991
or Suruç, where Serena Shim
was recently murdered
00:33:05.991 --> 00:33:08.922
and they're starting to resemble
more and more
00:33:08.922 --> 00:33:11.342
places like Peshawar in the
1980s and 1990s.
00:33:11.342 --> 00:33:14.559
And again, the relationship between MIT,
00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:16.371
the Turkish intelligence and ISIS
00:33:16.371 --> 00:33:18.999
is somewhat similar to the ISI
and the Taliban.
00:33:18.999 --> 00:33:25.325
So I guess, is that really the direction
that NATO and the CIA and MI6,
00:33:25.325 --> 00:33:29.169
-- the Deep State network --
want to go in?
00:33:29.169 --> 00:33:31.006
Because it seems as if they're playing
00:33:31.006 --> 00:33:32.590
a very dangerous game here.
00:33:32.590 --> 00:33:37.758
And if Turkey really did become...
like, a Pakistan-type scenario,
00:33:37.758 --> 00:33:41.871
is that really an intended
consequence of this?
00:33:41.871 --> 00:33:43.755
I know, I don't want to keep
bringing back...
00:33:43.755 --> 00:33:45.827
(Sibel) No, absolutely. Absolutely, it is.
00:33:45.827 --> 00:33:51.330
Because you have to look at the last,
let's say, 8-10 years
00:33:51.330 --> 00:33:53.276
of what's been happening with Turkey.
00:33:53.276 --> 00:33:56.302
Having countries...
00:33:56.302 --> 00:34:00.792
-- especially the countries that we
control, our allies:
00:34:00.792 --> 00:34:03.553
in this case, you just said Pakistan:
very similar. --
00:34:03.553 --> 00:34:08.296
having countries weak and not unified,
00:34:08.296 --> 00:34:10.990
with lots of internal chaos...
00:34:10.990 --> 00:34:12.050
let's say in Turkey,
00:34:12.050 --> 00:34:16.388
a Turkey that has a lot of things
going on with the Kurdish sects.
00:34:16.388 --> 00:34:20.321
The Kurds executing some
terror operations,
00:34:20.321 --> 00:34:23.956
the atrocity of Turkish militaries
against the Kurds,
00:34:23.956 --> 00:34:28.095
all the internal chaos created
by that division
00:34:28.095 --> 00:34:32.382
between the Kurdish sects
and the rest of Turkey.
00:34:32.382 --> 00:34:34.246
Then, to have other pockets.
00:34:34.246 --> 00:34:40.645
Division along the extremist religious
people there,
00:34:40.645 --> 00:34:42.413
versus the secular.
00:34:42.413 --> 00:34:47.343
That's what we have always intended
and we wanted...
00:34:47.343 --> 00:34:49.314
-- and we want:
this continues --
00:34:49.314 --> 00:34:51.829
for countries that are allies.
00:34:51.829 --> 00:34:54.170
A strong, unified nation,
00:34:54.170 --> 00:34:56.381
especially for Middle East,
00:34:56.381 --> 00:35:01.069
for a strategically, geographically
strategic nation,
00:35:01.069 --> 00:35:02.653
is something that we never want.
00:35:02.653 --> 00:35:04.420
We never want it.
00:35:04.420 --> 00:35:09.351
We want Iraq that is divided between
Shia and Sunnis and Kurds.
00:35:09.351 --> 00:35:11.388
Because that makes Iraq much weaker,
00:35:11.388 --> 00:35:15.868
therefore much more susceptible
to be a puppet nation.
00:35:15.868 --> 00:35:17.361
To take over, to take over their oil.
00:35:17.361 --> 00:35:19.362
Same thing with Pakistan.
00:35:19.362 --> 00:35:20.616
Same thing with Turkey.
00:35:20.616 --> 00:35:22.368
Now, what has been scaring...
00:35:22.368 --> 00:35:24.405
because there has been so much
00:35:24.405 --> 00:35:29.036
going on with the mainstream
media reporting on Turkey
00:35:29.036 --> 00:35:31.820
in the past five, six years here
in the United States,
00:35:31.820 --> 00:35:36.769
is a government that they don't like,
00:35:36.769 --> 00:35:40.239
and a country that has started
becoming economically strong.
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:42.604
If you look at what has been happening,
00:35:42.604 --> 00:35:48.728
or what really happened with
Europe in 2008, 2009 and 2010,
00:35:48.728 --> 00:35:50.110
and turn around and look at what has...
00:35:50.110 --> 00:35:52.398
-- economically, I'm talking about --
00:35:52.498 --> 00:35:55.019
what has been happening during
the same years,
00:35:55.104 --> 00:35:56.585
those same years, in Turkey,
00:35:56.585 --> 00:36:00.938
you see Turkey was one of the
only nations there in the region
00:36:00.938 --> 00:36:04.832
that with economy that actually
got stronger and better
00:36:04.832 --> 00:36:08.151
without all the havoc that was
taking place in Europe.
00:36:08.151 --> 00:36:09.353
That's number one.
00:36:09.353 --> 00:36:13.255
Number two: you see what happened
with the protests.
00:36:13.255 --> 00:36:16.139
The Gezi protests and all the chaos
00:36:16.139 --> 00:36:19.297
that were completely scripted
and implemented in Turkey
00:36:19.297 --> 00:36:23.516
by the United States, by the
Gladio operation
00:36:23.516 --> 00:36:29.845
being defeated. Because they...
and there was so much coverage
00:36:29.845 --> 00:36:32.538
when they were talking about
the elections coming
00:36:32.538 --> 00:36:35.234
and Erdoğan was not gonna be elected.
00:36:35.234 --> 00:36:37.672
But Turkey still stood unified,
00:36:37.672 --> 00:36:39.132
and they re-elected this guy.
00:36:39.132 --> 00:36:41.334
So I'm not saying this guy is good
or is bad.
00:36:41.334 --> 00:36:46.516
We never, ever, in the Middle East,
intend to have
00:36:46.516 --> 00:36:49.980
any allies that can be strong and unified.
00:36:49.980 --> 00:36:54.516
So taking countries and making sure
00:36:54.516 --> 00:36:57.943
that they are bogged down by
all these divisions
00:36:57.943 --> 00:37:01.472
and internal conflicts between
various sects,
00:37:01.472 --> 00:37:04.604
either along the religious lines,
Sunni versus Shia,
00:37:04.604 --> 00:37:10.437
or along race, or along the ideologies:
00:37:10.437 --> 00:37:16.078
that has been the recipe of...
00:37:16.078 --> 00:37:19.542
and again, this is really interesting
because, Tom,
00:37:19.542 --> 00:37:22.110
this is something that we took from...
00:37:22.110 --> 00:37:24.710
-- I don't want to say "inherited..." --
00:37:24.710 --> 00:37:26.905
but took from the Brits,
the British Empire.
00:37:26.905 --> 00:37:27.645
(Tom) Sure.
00:37:27.645 --> 00:37:31.636
(Sibel) Because that has always been
the modus operandi
00:37:31.636 --> 00:37:35.880
of the British Empire. The divide
and conquer.
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:38.293
And that has been, even in Iran,
00:37:38.293 --> 00:37:43.072
it's always been the tool utilized
and the modus operandi
00:37:43.072 --> 00:37:46.690
put in place and practiced by the
British Empire,
00:37:46.690 --> 00:37:51.593
and it is now part of the Gladio and
the United States' modus operandi.
00:37:51.593 --> 00:37:54.791
So for... we don't want a strong Turkey.
00:37:54.791 --> 00:37:57.823
We don't want a peaceful, unified Turkey.
00:37:57.823 --> 00:37:59.461
We do not want a strong Iraq.
00:37:59.461 --> 00:38:00.645
I mean, one of the...
00:38:00.645 --> 00:38:03.457
look at, when we were taking over Iraq...
00:38:03.457 --> 00:38:08.571
-- the war against Iraq, and then
Saddam, and going in there --
00:38:08.571 --> 00:38:11.045
one of the things that made it
much easier...
00:38:11.045 --> 00:38:15.208
-- and the chaos that's going on there,
currently, is completely intended --
00:38:15.208 --> 00:38:18.164
was the country was not one country.
00:38:18.164 --> 00:38:22.034
In the north, you had these whole
big Kurds who are against Saddam
00:38:22.034 --> 00:38:24.840
they have had their internal wars
for years and years
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:26.519
between Saddam and the Kurds.
00:38:26.519 --> 00:38:28.551
In the south, we had the Shias.
00:38:28.551 --> 00:38:31.184
And in the center, we had the Sunnis.
00:38:31.184 --> 00:38:33.217
And even during the First Gulf War,
00:38:33.217 --> 00:38:35.224
that, again, was used:
00:38:35.224 --> 00:38:37.751
with the Kurds in the north
and the Shias in the south,
00:38:37.751 --> 00:38:40.808
and, look: all the people that
got massacred and killed
00:38:40.808 --> 00:38:42.444
and from all three sides.
00:38:42.444 --> 00:38:44.772
but that's exactly what we want.
00:38:44.772 --> 00:38:47.857
And that's exactly what the
British Empire wanted before
00:38:47.857 --> 00:38:52.772
when they re-drew the maps
of the entire region
00:38:52.772 --> 00:38:54.365
and that includes, even, Africa.
00:38:54.365 --> 00:38:57.214
The maps were drawn in such a way
00:38:57.214 --> 00:39:02.211
that would keep these countries
to prosper, the region,
00:39:02.211 --> 00:39:04.518
and to be unified, and to be peaceful.
00:39:04.518 --> 00:39:07.695
These maps, the borders,
00:39:07.695 --> 00:39:09.446
were all drawn and created
00:39:09.446 --> 00:39:14.491
based on the division and the
dividing lines
00:39:14.491 --> 00:39:17.455
between the tribes, between
various religious sects.
00:39:17.455 --> 00:39:19.495
So absolutely, this is intended.
00:39:19.495 --> 00:39:21.529
And as far as to what end,
00:39:21.529 --> 00:39:25.050
this is why the book gets into,
well, Operation Gladio B
00:39:25.050 --> 00:39:27.747
will be Operation Gladio C at some point
00:39:27.747 --> 00:39:29.873
and Gladio C will be Gladio D
00:39:29.873 --> 00:39:33.702
because one region you don't
hear American media talking about
00:39:33.702 --> 00:39:36.553
it China and the Xinjiang region.
00:39:36.553 --> 00:39:40.214
They call it [East] Turkestan,
they call it Uyghuristan.
00:39:40.214 --> 00:39:44.879
The Uyghurs, well, these are
the Muslim minorities
00:39:44.879 --> 00:39:47.886
in that region of China.
00:39:47.886 --> 00:39:50.145
And they are Turkic heritage,
00:39:50.145 --> 00:39:52.636
and we don't hear much about that.
00:39:52.636 --> 00:39:53.943
But that is in the plan.
00:39:53.943 --> 00:39:56.079
That is part of Operation Gladio.
00:39:56.079 --> 00:39:59.650
And what we want, basically, is...
00:39:59.650 --> 00:40:01.393
and that's what's gonna happen.
00:40:01.393 --> 00:40:02.619
You're gonna see this happening
00:40:02.619 --> 00:40:05.705
in the next, I would say, less than five,
six years.
00:40:05.705 --> 00:40:09.094
You see, once in a while, they talk
about the US media
00:40:09.094 --> 00:40:13.645
how oppressive the Chinese regime
is against these people.
00:40:13.645 --> 00:40:16.720
You know, these people, they don't
consider themselves Chinese.
00:40:16.720 --> 00:40:18.238
They consider themselves Muslims.
00:40:18.238 --> 00:40:19.805
They consider themselves Uyghurs.
00:40:19.805 --> 00:40:21.236
They consider themselves Turkic.
00:40:21.236 --> 00:40:23.293
Their language is Turkic, OK?
00:40:23.293 --> 00:40:24.693
They want independence.
00:40:24.693 --> 00:40:28.117
Well, we have been cultivating that
for the past...
00:40:28.117 --> 00:40:33.232
since 1997, 1996 there, OK?
00:40:33.232 --> 00:40:34.972
And what we want is
00:40:34.972 --> 00:40:39.282
we want some of these terror incidents
00:40:39.282 --> 00:40:41.167
and the escalation of that,
00:40:41.167 --> 00:40:45.475
and getting China to increase its
oppression and react,
00:40:45.475 --> 00:40:49.637
because China wants to [xx] they just
want to defend their interests,
00:40:49.637 --> 00:40:53.560
then show that to the international
community by saying,
00:40:53.560 --> 00:40:57.354
"Look, these poor little minority
groups there,"
00:40:57.354 --> 00:40:59.847
"They are being crucified. They are
being massacred"
00:40:59.847 --> 00:41:01.960
"It's almost like genocide."
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:04.420
They want this genocidal operation,
00:41:04.420 --> 00:41:09.150
they want it to escalate to the point
of genocidal operations,
00:41:09.150 --> 00:41:11.143
they want to push China into reacting
00:41:11.143 --> 00:41:14.101
and turning this into a genocidal
operations.
00:41:14.101 --> 00:41:18.075
So then, with the consent of the
international community,
00:41:18.075 --> 00:41:22.489
we go there, in there, and say we
are here to stand by the sects
00:41:22.489 --> 00:41:24.560
because we are such great nation.
00:41:24.560 --> 00:41:26.661
We care a lot [laughter]
00:41:26.661 --> 00:41:28.891
about humanity.
00:41:28.891 --> 00:41:32.115
And we always have these great
intentions.
00:41:32.115 --> 00:41:34.637
It's always because we want to democrat---
00:41:34.637 --> 00:41:37.998
we bring democracy and
democratize a nation.
00:41:37.998 --> 00:41:40.070
We want to protect some underdog.
00:41:40.070 --> 00:41:42.886
We want to defend some minority groups
00:41:42.886 --> 00:41:45.169
because we are that kind of nation, guys.
00:41:45.169 --> 00:41:48.718
OK? That's what we always,
always have done, right?
00:41:48.718 --> 00:41:50.285
You know, it's always glorified.
00:41:50.285 --> 00:41:52.364
We always intend good things.
00:41:52.364 --> 00:41:55.135
And look, bad things happen as a result:
but they are unintended.
00:41:55.135 --> 00:41:56.569
Again, going back to "blowback."
00:41:56.569 --> 00:41:58.283
But once we have that,
00:41:58.283 --> 00:42:00.960
once we have a situation escalate
00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:02.516
and we are pushing it to that degree
00:42:02.516 --> 00:42:05.477
-- this is all planned: it's been in
motion since 1996 --
00:42:05.477 --> 00:42:08.172
then we're gonna say, "We've got to
help these guys,"
00:42:08.172 --> 00:42:09.366
"so we've got to put our military there,"
00:42:09.366 --> 00:42:11.867
and it's going to be another Taiwan.
00:42:11.867 --> 00:42:13.607
That's the intention, OK?
00:42:13.607 --> 00:42:14.811
That's the objective.
00:42:14.811 --> 00:42:20.166
We want to separate Xinjiang area
from the rest of mainland China.
00:42:20.166 --> 00:42:23.807
We will put a base there, in the name
of protecting these minorities,
00:42:23.807 --> 00:42:26.544
and we're gonna turn it to
another Taiwan.
00:42:26.544 --> 00:42:28.578
That is the ultimate goal.
00:42:28.578 --> 00:42:30.809
And look and see where Xinjiang is:
00:42:30.809 --> 00:42:37.116
not only for us to get close to China
just the way we are doing with Russia,
00:42:37.116 --> 00:42:40.116
with using the Caucasus and Central Asia,
00:42:40.116 --> 00:42:42.918
this is the start for us with this
Xinjiang region
00:42:42.918 --> 00:42:47.198
to exactly implement the same objective,
the same plan
00:42:47.198 --> 00:42:50.276
and get close to China and close in
on China.
00:42:50.276 --> 00:42:51.477
So, that's number one.
00:42:51.477 --> 00:42:56.181
And number two, if you look at the
pipeline scenario
00:42:56.181 --> 00:42:57.895
-- this is for the oil and gas --
00:42:57.895 --> 00:43:03.558
the oil and gas resource-rich regions
of Central Asia and Caucasus,
00:43:03.558 --> 00:43:06.551
when you look at Turkmenistan
and Kazakhstan, et cetera,
00:43:06.551 --> 00:43:09.337
and you see all the business deals
00:43:09.337 --> 00:43:12.553
between China and these
Central Asia/Caucasus,
00:43:12.553 --> 00:43:15.253
ex-Soviet nations...
00:43:15.253 --> 00:43:18.283
--because how many billion people
are in China? --
00:43:18.283 --> 00:43:23.106
China has the greatest need for
energy resources
00:43:23.106 --> 00:43:25.312
compared to any other nation
in the world.
00:43:25.312 --> 00:43:28.166
They need this oil, they need this gas,
00:43:28.166 --> 00:43:31.076
and they are putting all these pipelines
to bring...
00:43:31.076 --> 00:43:32.340
-- with business deals --
00:43:32.340 --> 00:43:37.810
this needed gas and oil into China.
Into mainland china.
00:43:37.810 --> 00:43:41.039
Well, go and see where these pipelines
pass through.
00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:46.038
Then you start realizing the significance
of the Xinjiang region.
00:43:46.038 --> 00:43:51.520
So by having our power, our military
boots on the ground,
00:43:51.520 --> 00:43:53.674
our base there in Xinjiang,
00:43:53.674 --> 00:43:56.435
not only we are controlling getting
close to China,
00:43:56.435 --> 00:43:58.636
but we are sitting in the section
00:43:58.636 --> 00:44:05.408
that is the [xx] that the pipelines entry
into mainland China.
00:44:05.408 --> 00:44:10.050
We can starve and deprive China of all
oil and gas
00:44:10.050 --> 00:44:12.981
coming from that region by sitting there.
00:44:12.981 --> 00:44:18.894
So that's the area you don't hear much
from the mainstream media, US,
00:44:18.894 --> 00:44:21.096
even though so much has been
taking place.
00:44:21.096 --> 00:44:26.809
They only broadcast when China reacts
to some terror incidents that we manage
00:44:26.809 --> 00:44:29.567
-- "we" being the United States,
Operation Gladio --
00:44:29.567 --> 00:44:33.986
by the Xinjiang Uyghurs, and show
how despotic they are.
00:44:33.986 --> 00:44:38.498
You know, they go there and they are
oppressing people, repressing people,
00:44:38.498 --> 00:44:40.972
they are killing people, they are
jailing people,
00:44:40.972 --> 00:44:43.795
awful stuff that China is doing to
these people, right?
00:44:43.795 --> 00:44:46.732
We don't show the casualties of
when these groups, our groups,
00:44:46.732 --> 00:44:49.764
implement terror operations in
mainland China,
00:44:49.764 --> 00:44:52.268
but we right away broadcast
what China did.
00:44:52.268 --> 00:44:55.891
So we are basically massaging
the peoples,
00:44:55.891 --> 00:44:58.814
Americans and also
international communities,
00:44:58.814 --> 00:45:01.242
and even especially the Muslim region,
00:45:01.242 --> 00:45:04.777
of, "Look, what is China doing
to these people?"
00:45:04.777 --> 00:45:06.444
The same thing we've been doing with,
00:45:06.444 --> 00:45:08.616
"Look what Russians are doing
to Chechens!'
00:45:08.616 --> 00:45:11.587
Exactly the same scenario.
00:45:11.587 --> 00:45:13.214
It's the same Operation Gladio.
00:45:13.214 --> 00:45:15.575
And again, when you said, "To what end?"
00:45:15.575 --> 00:45:19.003
That's... we are... we have these
objectives in place.
00:45:19.003 --> 00:45:22.152
Not "we:" the Operation;
the Operation Gladio.
00:45:22.152 --> 00:45:24.700
And China and getting close,
00:45:24.700 --> 00:45:30.634
controlling the entry of the needed oil
and gas into China
00:45:30.634 --> 00:45:34.768
thus containing China from becoming
the superpower,
00:45:34.768 --> 00:45:39.742
is in motion. And the same thing
with Russia.
00:45:39.742 --> 00:45:43.216
And of course we have the prize
there that we haven't done anything.
00:45:43.216 --> 00:45:46.252
That's for the next administration.
00:45:46.252 --> 00:45:49.348
Right now, we have Syria.
We had Libya before that.
00:45:49.348 --> 00:45:53.258
Yemen, Afghanistan with... we're
gonna stay there.
00:45:53.258 --> 00:45:55.319
Of course that's gonna be our
permanent base.
00:45:55.319 --> 00:45:56.976
There's no question about that.
00:45:56.976 --> 00:45:58.746
Pakistan is our puppet region.
00:45:58.746 --> 00:46:02.472
Of course, these regions sometimes
play off of US against China.
00:46:02.472 --> 00:46:07.010
"OK, so you do this, then I'm gonna
go and make a deal with China."
00:46:07.010 --> 00:46:08.471
Well, we don't want that, right?
00:46:08.471 --> 00:46:12.491
And again, that ends up being
some headlines once in a while,
00:46:12.491 --> 00:46:16.460
but the importance of it is way beyond
what the US media
00:46:16.460 --> 00:46:18.560
represents in its reporting.
00:46:18.560 --> 00:46:20.999
So of course the prize being Iran there.
00:46:20.999 --> 00:46:23.327
And between Central Asia, Caucasus,
00:46:23.327 --> 00:46:24.905
Iran, Afghanistan,
00:46:24.905 --> 00:46:29.115
the goal is whoever controls
the resources,
00:46:29.115 --> 00:46:35.141
the needed resources: the oil, the gas, the needed minerals --
00:46:35.141 --> 00:46:37.329
that is the superpower.
00:46:37.952 --> 00:46:41.826
That is the sole empire of the globe, the world.
00:46:41.826 --> 00:46:45.983
And we have been doing it through
Operation Gladio,
00:46:45.983 --> 00:46:49.507
and of course with our more
militaristic covert wars.
00:46:49.507 --> 00:46:50.749
But then look at our competitors,
00:46:50.749 --> 00:46:52.892
supposedly our enemies,
00:46:52.892 --> 00:46:53.917
China and Russia:
00:46:53.917 --> 00:46:56.076
we haven't seen anything like that
from them.
00:46:56.076 --> 00:46:58.655
And so that is our modus operandi,
00:46:58.655 --> 00:47:00.294
and that is the objective.
00:47:00.294 --> 00:47:03.750
The objective is who is going to be
the sole superpower,
00:47:03.750 --> 00:47:05.161
the super-empire.
00:47:05.161 --> 00:47:06.793
And as long as that's the objective,
00:47:06.793 --> 00:47:08.500
these are the things we're
gonna be doing.
00:47:08.500 --> 00:47:12.547
(Pearse) Hmm. And I think that you're
really right in pointing out that this is...
00:47:12.547 --> 00:47:16.897
the situation in Xinjiang right now is
actually starting
00:47:16.897 --> 00:47:18.991
to get more, sort of, intense;
00:47:18.991 --> 00:47:20.674
and we're already seeing Uyghurs
00:47:20.674 --> 00:47:22.695
that were fighting in Iraq
that were captured.
00:47:22.695 --> 00:47:26.081
And it seems that perhaps
00:47:26.081 --> 00:47:28.943
we are entering into a different
phase of Gladio.
00:47:28.943 --> 00:47:31.692
And just briefly, I just wanted to take
your take on
00:47:31.692 --> 00:47:35.420
Tarkhan Batirashvili or Omar al-Shishani,
00:47:35.420 --> 00:47:37.670
who is the "Ginger Jihadi."
00:47:37.670 --> 00:47:40.877
And he seems to have been thrust
into the spotlight of ISIS.
00:47:40.877 --> 00:47:44.970
There was a Daily Beast article calling
him "The Bin Laden of the Group."
00:47:44.970 --> 00:47:48.299
Of course, and then a little bit down
in the article they say,
00:47:48.299 --> 00:47:50.530
"Well, his brother is really the brains
behind all of this."
00:47:50.530 --> 00:47:54.279
And Batirashvili has a somewhat
similar background
00:47:54.279 --> 00:47:57.387
to a character in The Lone Gladio,
Yusuf Mohammed
00:47:57.387 --> 00:48:00.402
and we'll leave that to the audience
to decipher who is is.
00:48:00.402 --> 00:48:03.077
But of course, Batirashvili was trained
by the Americans
00:48:03.077 --> 00:48:05.236
in a Georgian Special Forces outfit,
00:48:05.236 --> 00:48:08.025
fought against the Russians in Chechnya,
00:48:08.025 --> 00:48:10.839
and he has repeatedly said that he wants
00:48:10.839 --> 00:48:13.607
to bring the fight back to Kadyrov
and Putin,
00:48:13.607 --> 00:48:15.688
with not so much as a peep out
of Georgia.
00:48:15.688 --> 00:48:19.464
So I just wanted to see and get your
take on this, Sibel.
00:48:19.464 --> 00:48:24.935
And is this a, sort of, new ramping up?
00:48:24.935 --> 00:48:30.554
Are we going to go from the small-scale
attacks like in The Lone Gladio,
00:48:30.554 --> 00:48:34.772
like the bombing in the Defense Ministry
in the beginning of the book,
00:48:34.772 --> 00:48:38.169
to a more, sort of, open war with Russia?
00:48:38.169 --> 00:48:43.705
And with, perhaps, this Batirashvili --
this white jihadi guy -- at the forefront?
00:48:43.705 --> 00:48:49.351
(Sibel) My answer, I guess, will have
three different segments into it.
00:48:49.351 --> 00:48:52.296
Number one, that's right: you mentioned
the character Yusuf Mohammed.
00:48:52.296 --> 00:48:57.631
But the biography, the summary short
biography that you just mentioned,
00:48:57.631 --> 00:49:00.938
fits exactly Ayman Zawahiri's.
00:49:00.938 --> 00:49:01.953
Mm.
00:49:01.953 --> 00:49:04.924
OK? Ayman Zawahiri was jailed;
he was tortured.
00:49:04.924 --> 00:49:10.232
Then he went there and became the
lieutenant for Osama Bin Laden
00:49:10.232 --> 00:49:16.873
and was fighting against Russia in...
with mujahideen cell in Afghanistan.
00:49:16.873 --> 00:49:20.271
So you... as you said, you're looking
at the repeated bios.
00:49:20.271 --> 00:49:24.202
So these are the... the profiles are
so consistent.
00:49:24.202 --> 00:49:26.635
See, that's one of the other
interesting things
00:49:26.635 --> 00:49:30.041
about the United States and NATO,
00:49:30.041 --> 00:49:31.620
the Operation Gladio,
00:49:31.620 --> 00:49:33.373
and that is the consistency.
00:49:33.373 --> 00:49:37.746
Really, you may see some small
variations here and there,
00:49:37.746 --> 00:49:40.581
but if you look at it overall,
00:49:40.581 --> 00:49:43.842
the script is the same. The scenario
is the same.
00:49:43.842 --> 00:49:48.563
I mean, in a way: it's awful, but it's
also boring.
00:49:48.563 --> 00:49:49.728
But guess what?
00:49:49.728 --> 00:49:53.286
If it works, if it ain't break,
don't fix it, right?
00:49:53.286 --> 00:49:54.461
That's how the saying goes?
00:49:54.461 --> 00:49:56.735
It worked with Afghanistan,
00:49:56.735 --> 00:50:00.297
it worked with... it has been working.
00:50:00.297 --> 00:50:02.862
So why change it, right?
00:50:02.862 --> 00:50:05.061
So that's number one aspect of it.
00:50:05.061 --> 00:50:08.435
That the bios being exactly consistent
as the rest of them.
00:50:08.435 --> 00:50:11.940
you know, Zawahiri and Yusuf Mohammed.
00:50:11.940 --> 00:50:14.439
And the second part of it
00:50:14.439 --> 00:50:17.584
has to do with the psychological
aspects of it.
00:50:17.584 --> 00:50:19.458
And this is the psychological warfare,
00:50:19.458 --> 00:50:21.576
and also propaganda.
00:50:21.576 --> 00:50:26.708
And that is when you put... let's say
you have an enemy cell.
00:50:26.708 --> 00:50:30.094
ISIS, ISIS, right? They are doing
these ferocious things.
00:50:30.094 --> 00:50:32.606
It goes only so far.
00:50:32.606 --> 00:50:35.063
Of course, let's say, look at the
Americans' opinion:
00:50:35.063 --> 00:50:39.017
these barbaric Muslims -- they
are Islamists, number one.
00:50:39.017 --> 00:50:40.575
"This is what Islam advocates,"
00:50:40.575 --> 00:50:43.594
"and these barbaric extremists,
they're doing all this stuff. "
00:50:43.594 --> 00:50:47.058
Goes... it's effective; but it goes
only so far.
00:50:47.058 --> 00:50:52.420
What you always need in a
psychological warfare and propaganda
00:50:52.420 --> 00:50:56.351
is to put a human, actual human face
and name to it.
00:50:56.351 --> 00:51:00.224
Because then, that makes it so
personal, right?
00:51:00.224 --> 00:51:05.227
Because, as we did with Osama Bin Laden.
00:51:05.227 --> 00:51:09.066
Showing the picture of that Khalid
Sheikh Mohammed.
00:51:09.066 --> 00:51:11.796
That evil-looking guy, you know?
He's crazy, right?
00:51:11.796 --> 00:51:13.496
"MOOONSTER!"
00:51:13.496 --> 00:51:16.421
So we associate, when we think
about the Americans...
00:51:16.421 --> 00:51:17.430
you know, people,
00:51:17.430 --> 00:51:20.597
then we are thinking about these
horrifying boogeymen.
00:51:20.597 --> 00:51:23.081
If we don't have, put some pictures
there...
00:51:23.081 --> 00:51:25.082
you know, it's like Freddy Krueger,
right?
00:51:25.082 --> 00:51:29.864
Freddy Kruger. I mean, you can write
all the stories about Freddy Krueger,
00:51:29.864 --> 00:51:33.581
but if you don't create an image
that goes with Freddy Krueger,
00:51:33.581 --> 00:51:37.531
Freddy Krueger can't become
that monstrously scary, right?
00:51:37.531 --> 00:51:42.907
So Osama Bin Laden, with that long
beard and the dark, piercing black eyes,
00:51:42.907 --> 00:51:48.329
that screams evil, and you have Khalid
Sheikh Mohammed, that crazed guy there.
00:51:48.329 --> 00:51:51.669
And then you are looking at
Ayman Zawahiri,
00:51:51.669 --> 00:51:55.545
and the photos when he's talking
passionate with his index finger up,
00:51:55.545 --> 00:51:59.593
you know, the extremist Islamist
mullah with his headpiece.
00:51:59.593 --> 00:52:01.418
Well, those are effective.
00:52:01.418 --> 00:52:04.983
Because just like Hollywood movies,
just like Freddy Krueger,
00:52:04.983 --> 00:52:07.398
you need to have a human face
and name
00:52:07.398 --> 00:52:10.634
that you make it synonymous with
whatever cell
00:52:10.634 --> 00:52:13.688
you have created and put in
place, right?
00:52:13.688 --> 00:52:15.699
And that's exactly what we are
seeing with this guy.
00:52:15.699 --> 00:52:20.291
Because ISIS, ISIL, IS -- they did this?
OK, that's fine.
00:52:20.291 --> 00:52:24.591
But now it's time to enter, to bring in
00:52:24.591 --> 00:52:27.024
and introduce the face that
represents it all.
00:52:27.024 --> 00:52:29.903
Now, you have [xx] this person.
00:52:29.903 --> 00:52:32.491
So that's the second segment.
00:52:32.491 --> 00:52:34.451
And as far as yet bigger war,
00:52:34.451 --> 00:52:39.657
I think we are putting things in place
for that if needed,
00:52:39.657 --> 00:52:43.962
but I will offer my own
hypothesis theory.
00:52:43.962 --> 00:52:45.824
Because I don't know this for a fact,
00:52:45.824 --> 00:52:48.756
but if someone were to ask me to speculate
00:52:48.756 --> 00:52:53.170
and say when and why...
when we would do such things,
00:52:53.170 --> 00:52:55.197
in terms of going into full-blown war,
00:52:55.197 --> 00:52:58.159
this is what I have to offer.
00:52:58.159 --> 00:53:01.381
Again, this is based on my own analysis
and opinion,
00:53:01.381 --> 00:53:04.493
and I'm not going to market it as,
"Oh, this is pure fact."
00:53:04.493 --> 00:53:05.933
This is my opinion.
00:53:05.933 --> 00:53:08.712
First of all, we are going to see much
more stuff
00:53:08.712 --> 00:53:10.706
with Georgia, Abkhazia region.
00:53:10.706 --> 00:53:14.937
We had that -- what was it? -- six-day
war, eight-day war a few years ago?
00:53:14.937 --> 00:53:16.347
That was just a warm-up.
00:53:16.347 --> 00:53:22.070
But with Georgia's candidacy,
integration into NATO that is coming,
00:53:22.070 --> 00:53:25.619
that is going to happen in that region.
00:53:25.619 --> 00:53:29.772
We're gonna see more conflict
and confrontation there.
00:53:29.772 --> 00:53:34.254
Similar to Ukraine, we're gonna see it
in the Abkhazia region there.
00:53:34.254 --> 00:53:36.885
And again, these terror cells and
the groups,
00:53:36.885 --> 00:53:39.807
we have already cultivated,
put together, put in place,
00:53:39.807 --> 00:53:41.351
we've been managing in that region.
00:53:41.351 --> 00:53:44.434
We got a little bit of taste of
that during
00:53:44.434 --> 00:53:47.104
the so-called false flag Boston
bombing.
00:53:47.104 --> 00:53:49.460
People started hearing,
00:53:49.460 --> 00:53:51.427
at least their ears got a little bit
used to,
00:53:51.427 --> 00:53:54.011
this "Dagestan" region?
00:53:54.011 --> 00:53:54.828
[laughter]
00:53:54.828 --> 00:53:55.788
You see?
00:53:55.788 --> 00:53:58.415
Because ordinarily, most Americans:
they don't like geography, OK?
00:53:58.415 --> 00:54:03.083
They like to view the world as this...
the United States of America.
00:54:03.083 --> 00:54:04.614
OK? It's huge.
00:54:04.614 --> 00:54:06.895
Look, Turkey's the size of Texas, right?
00:54:06.895 --> 00:54:08.931
Well, I don't even know where Turkey
exactly is.
00:54:08.931 --> 00:54:09.896
We are a big country,
00:54:09.896 --> 00:54:11.981
we are just by ourselves here.
00:54:11.981 --> 00:54:15.264
There are some countries and nations
with weird names, oh,
00:54:15.264 --> 00:54:17.254
thousands of miles away.
00:54:17.254 --> 00:54:18.433
Who needs to know about them?
00:54:18.433 --> 00:54:20.400
If you were to ask Americans,
00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:23.973
I would say 94 percent -- I'm just gonna
throw a number here --
00:54:23.973 --> 00:54:25.796
if you put the map and say,
00:54:25.796 --> 00:54:30.718
"OK, put your finger on the region that
is considered Caucasus/Central Asia,"
00:54:30.718 --> 00:54:34.448
I can guarantee you, if we were to
implement this test,
00:54:34.448 --> 00:54:36.750
You would see that 94% of Americans,
00:54:36.750 --> 00:54:39.311
their index finger would freeze
in the air.
00:54:39.311 --> 00:54:43.147
"What?" "Can you show me Kyrgyzstan?"
"What's that?"
00:54:43.147 --> 00:54:46.620
I mean, I'll just give you a quick...
it's not a joke, it's a real-life thing.
00:54:46.620 --> 00:54:50.429
When I started college, university
here in the United States --
00:54:50.429 --> 00:54:54.878
and this is during my second, third year,
so this is not in high school
00:54:54.878 --> 00:54:56.227
this is in college-level
00:54:56.227 --> 00:54:59.419
this one guy in my class, he says,
"You're from Turkey, right?"
00:54:59.419 --> 00:55:00.589
I said, "Yeah, I'm from Turkey."
00:55:00.589 --> 00:55:04.002
He says, "Turkey is in Saudi Arabia,
right?"
00:55:04.002 --> 00:55:05.383
"One of the nations in Saudi Arabia?"
00:55:05.383 --> 00:55:08.145
And I was like, "Oh my goodness."
00:55:08.145 --> 00:55:11.455
They have made Saudi Arabia a continent,
00:55:12.292 --> 00:55:17.075
And Turkey a nation in that
continent called Saudi Arabia.
00:55:17.075 --> 00:55:18.133
But unfortunately
00:55:18.133 --> 00:55:20.450
-- this is a fact; this is true, OK? --
00:55:20.450 --> 00:55:24.688
we... I spent years living in
other countries.
00:55:24.688 --> 00:55:26.136
I lived in Vietnam for a year.
00:55:26.136 --> 00:55:30.647
I lived in Russia in 1992, right after
the end of the Cold War.
00:55:30.647 --> 00:55:36.291
And I have traveled to a lot of
places, to many, many countries.
00:55:36.291 --> 00:55:40.576
But when it comes to geography,
with Americans,
00:55:40.576 --> 00:55:45.030
I never... I'm still amazed, OK?
It is just...
00:55:45.030 --> 00:55:48.359
and then I traveled... another thing
I noticed, like, when I was
00:55:48.359 --> 00:55:49.931
when I was there, when I was in Vietnam,
00:55:49.931 --> 00:55:53.772
I saw all these backpackers
from Scandinavian nations
00:55:53.772 --> 00:55:56.769
Australia, New Zealand, a lot of Brits.
00:55:56.769 --> 00:55:58.702
You know, they are 21, right
out of college.
00:55:58.702 --> 00:56:00.537
Or they are taking a break from college.
00:56:00.537 --> 00:56:05.513
And they have their backpacks, and they
are traveling all over Laos and Vietnam.
00:56:05.513 --> 00:56:08.009
And I struck a friendship with a lot of
these people.
00:56:08.009 --> 00:56:10.429
You hardly see Americans doing that.
00:56:10.429 --> 00:56:16.871
There is this inherent desire to explore
the world by some of those nations.
00:56:16.871 --> 00:56:19.211
But you don't see it much for Americans.
00:56:19.211 --> 00:56:23.702
That's another thing: that worldliness
which reduces xenophobia.
00:56:23.702 --> 00:56:25.368
When you start getting more familiar,
00:56:25.368 --> 00:56:31.333
the culture and other traditions and
people and races,
00:56:31.333 --> 00:56:33.686
that kind of reduces your xenophobia,
00:56:33.686 --> 00:56:38.077
but also it makes you an informed
person about the world.
00:56:38.077 --> 00:56:40.997
It makes you worldly.
Well, you don't see that much in America.
00:56:40.997 --> 00:56:44.047
So, going back to the topic
of Kyrgyzstan,
00:56:44.047 --> 00:56:45.430
"I don't even know where that is,"
00:56:45.430 --> 00:56:49.484
we are going to see this conflict.
00:56:49.484 --> 00:56:51.020
We have already planted that.
00:56:51.020 --> 00:56:54.336
We said, "Let's make Americans
familiar with this name Dagestan"'
00:56:54.336 --> 00:56:57.715
Dagestan and terrorism have become
kind of synonymous
00:56:57.715 --> 00:56:59.251
thanks to the Boston bombing.
00:56:59.251 --> 00:57:01.762
So Chechen, Dagestan, these people came,
00:57:01.762 --> 00:57:02.712
they're extremists.
00:57:02.712 --> 00:57:04.534
They're somehow related
00:57:04.534 --> 00:57:08.106
to either al-Qaeda or Jamaati
[sic: Jabhat?] al-Nusra... whatever.
00:57:08.106 --> 00:57:10.427
But that region has many,
many terrorists, OK?
00:57:10.427 --> 00:57:14.613
We are going to reintroduce that
topic again as a nation,
00:57:14.613 --> 00:57:17.746
as Operation Gladio, when the time
comes, which is going to be soon
00:57:17.746 --> 00:57:19.931
in Georgia, Abkhazia region.
00:57:19.931 --> 00:57:22.370
But as far as a bigger war with Russia,
00:57:22.370 --> 00:57:26.676
I doubt it under current circumstances.
That's my opinion,
00:57:26.676 --> 00:57:29.368
because of Putin and who Putin is.
00:57:29.368 --> 00:57:32.462
And again, Putin's rating went
up in Russia,
00:57:32.462 --> 00:57:35.986
and Putin's popularity really went
up there.
00:57:35.986 --> 00:57:40.060
And Putin has been portrayed,
even here by US media,
00:57:40.060 --> 00:57:44.001
as a tough, nationalistic leader
in Russia, right?
00:57:44.001 --> 00:57:47.025
Because Putin is standing up
to the United States.
00:57:47.025 --> 00:57:50.025
He did -- he and the Russians --
00:57:50.025 --> 00:57:53.718
when we were talking about going
into Syria two years ago, right?
00:57:53.718 --> 00:57:56.045
And of course what we saw with Ukraine.
00:57:56.045 --> 00:58:02.512
My theory is just like the limited
opposition framed and controlled,
00:58:02.512 --> 00:58:07.319
I believe there is... we have Putin tied,
00:58:07.319 --> 00:58:12.686
and into a certain degree, Putin
can only do it so much.
00:58:12.686 --> 00:58:16.068
And you're going to say, why that is?
00:58:16.068 --> 00:58:20.100
One of, again, our modus operandi
has been...
00:58:20.100 --> 00:58:23.670
-- and you see it a lot in Operation Gladio-related sections
00:58:23.670 --> 00:58:25.390
of The Lone Gladio --
00:58:25.390 --> 00:58:30.445
is blackmail and collecting crap,
shit from people, right?
00:58:30.445 --> 00:58:32.130
I mean, we do it with Congress.
00:58:32.130 --> 00:58:38.890
Even with the FBI we did it. FBI had files
on some top figures in the House.
00:58:38.890 --> 00:58:46.519
Just in the operation that involved
Turkey and the Turkish lobby, right?
00:58:46.519 --> 00:58:48.715
That was involved in my case.
00:58:48.715 --> 00:58:51.910
but CIA has been doing it forever,
00:58:51.910 --> 00:58:54.227
since its inception and creation.
00:58:54.227 --> 00:58:58.377
There are some Presidents,
and we do that.
00:58:58.377 --> 00:58:59.844
Otherwise they won't become President.
00:58:59.844 --> 00:59:02.308
That's one of the qualifications,
requirements.
00:59:02.308 --> 00:59:05.252
And again, the book The Lone Gladio
goes into that.
00:59:05.252 --> 00:59:07.605
To be qualified to get to that level,
00:59:07.605 --> 00:59:09.150
to that level of power seat,
00:59:09.150 --> 00:59:11.602
you have to have a lot of dirt, OK?
00:59:11.602 --> 00:59:14.229
That makes you a viable candidate.
00:59:14.229 --> 00:59:16.176
because you are controllable.
00:59:16.176 --> 00:59:19.869
If you don't have lots of skeletons
and dirt,
00:59:19.869 --> 00:59:22.373
you are not as easily controllable.
00:59:22.373 --> 00:59:28.536
It's pure and simple. Well we've been
doing that with, also, world leaders.
00:59:28.536 --> 00:59:31.034
It just came out and leaked that, OK,
00:59:31.034 --> 00:59:34.308
we've been collecting dirt on Angela
Merkel, right?
00:59:34.308 --> 00:59:38.809
With this NSA spying: her personal
phones were being listened to, correct?
00:59:38.809 --> 00:59:43.067
Well, why would we do that?
Think about it.
00:59:43.067 --> 00:59:44.859
Because at any given time...
00:59:44.859 --> 00:59:49.263
let's say someone like Angela Merkel, if
she was not the scumbag that she is, OK?
00:59:49.263 --> 00:59:54.731
And we decided that you know, Germany,
or this country or that country,
00:59:54.731 --> 00:59:56.560
is not backing us with this,
00:59:56.560 --> 00:59:59.121
what would happen if we...
00:59:59.121 --> 01:00:02.134
-- "We," the United States;
Operation Gladio --
01:00:02.134 --> 01:00:08.585
would release to the media in France,
or in Germany, or in UK?
01:00:08.585 --> 01:00:11.323
All sorts of recorded tapes,
01:00:11.323 --> 01:00:14.694
and also maybe some Internet activities
01:00:14.694 --> 01:00:18.394
showing that this particular leader
is a pedophile, OK?
01:00:18.394 --> 01:00:20.490
Let's say... you know, let's say Sarkozy.
01:00:20.490 --> 01:00:23.163
I'm just giving you a hypothetical
example.
01:00:23.163 --> 01:00:27.611
What would happen if all these pictures
come out
01:00:27.611 --> 01:00:30.118
that Sarkozy has been having
01:00:30.118 --> 01:00:32.462
this relationship with five,
six-years-old boys
01:00:32.462 --> 01:00:35.637
and, through... and he's been a pedophile?
01:00:35.637 --> 01:00:38.435
Can you imagine right away that leader
not disappearing from that country?
01:00:38.435 --> 01:00:42.477
We have that power, because we've
been... we've been doing this a lot.
01:00:42.477 --> 01:00:48.904
We first use what we collect on the
world leaders in terms of blackmail
01:00:48.904 --> 01:00:52.755
by saying, "You know what? You don't
do this and we will expose this."
01:00:52.755 --> 01:00:57.183
OK? Number two, if needed, we would
do that.
01:00:57.183 --> 01:01:02.152
Some things happen with the Bakayev
family in Kyrgyzstan
01:01:02.152 --> 01:01:05.856
A lot of things are associated with that
that I'm not gonna get into right now.
01:01:05.856 --> 01:01:11.581
But with Putin, it's already estimated
that his net worth, his wealth,
01:01:11.581 --> 01:01:13.936
is way over $500 million dollars, OK?
01:01:13.936 --> 01:01:18.817
Where is his money?
As of 2003, 2004 --
01:01:18.817 --> 01:01:23.441
and this is based on direct,
first/second-hand information
01:01:23.441 --> 01:01:24.991
from people within intelligence community
01:01:24.991 --> 01:01:32.224
a lot of his wealth is kept in the Greek
portion of Cyprus, the banks there.
01:01:32.224 --> 01:01:36.204
And they're... so if intelligence
agencies,
01:01:36.204 --> 01:01:40.403
CIA, and even through
counterintelligence monitoring FBI,
01:01:40.403 --> 01:01:44.539
knows and has all the information
01:01:44.539 --> 01:01:46.579
about where Putin keeps some
of his wealth,
01:01:46.579 --> 01:01:50.106
or if some other leader
keeps it in Dubai,
01:01:50.106 --> 01:01:53.741
this ones keeps it -- let's say,
hypothetically speaking,
01:01:53.741 --> 01:01:57.070
Putin keeps it in certain banks in Malta?
01:01:57.070 --> 01:01:58.683
OK? Malta is another important place.
01:01:58.683 --> 01:01:59.517
Nobody talks about it,
01:01:59.517 --> 01:02:04.395
but in terms of the money laundering
and the financial operations center
01:02:04.395 --> 01:02:06.294
and in Cyprus.
01:02:06.294 --> 01:02:12.059
And if this were to come out in Russia --
how did he get this wealth, OK?
01:02:12.059 --> 01:02:14.797
Because this is the nation's wealth
that leaders go and take out, right?
01:02:14.797 --> 01:02:18.151
In countries like... whatever countries
that you look at.
01:02:18.151 --> 01:02:20.070
And where they are kept.
01:02:20.070 --> 01:02:21.705
They can...
01:02:21.705 --> 01:02:23.336
-- and this is the Operation Gladio,
01:02:23.336 --> 01:02:25.335
this is the United States,
this is the UK --
01:02:25.335 --> 01:02:28.969
they can make Putin a scandalous leader
01:02:28.969 --> 01:02:32.429
and take away all his popularity
01:02:32.429 --> 01:02:35.208
in less than a day, if they wanted to.
01:02:35.208 --> 01:02:37.937
If they wanted to.
01:02:38.084 --> 01:02:43.524
So you are looking at a leader,
let's say in Russia, that has to
01:02:43.524 --> 01:02:47.565
balance... has to balance two things.
01:02:47.764 --> 01:02:52.641
Number one, to appeal to the
nationalistic side of its nation
01:02:52.641 --> 01:02:57.596
Because any leader of Russia has to
kind of be tough
01:02:57.596 --> 01:02:59.732
when it comes to the Western powers,
right?
01:02:59.732 --> 01:03:01.245
Because it was not that long ago
01:03:01.245 --> 01:03:03.874
when Russia was the Soviet Union.
01:03:03.874 --> 01:03:05.812
It was the second empire in the world.
01:03:05.812 --> 01:03:09.191
It was the Western empire, and it
was the Soviet Union, OK?
01:03:09.191 --> 01:03:10.704
So in order to stay in power,
01:03:11.598 --> 01:03:16.960
that leader has to appeal and maintain
that faith of the people there,
01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:19.584
that he's tough, and he can stand up.
01:03:19.584 --> 01:03:21.745
He's not a butler, OK? He's not weak.
01:03:21.745 --> 01:03:23.398
He can stand up to the United States.
01:03:23.398 --> 01:03:26.336
He can growl and say, "Rawwwrr!" OK?
01:03:26.336 --> 01:03:29.872
Or maybe bark a little bit, and say,
"Woof, woof!" OK?
01:03:29.872 --> 01:03:31.474
But, he won't bite.
01:03:31.474 --> 01:03:35.407
Because then that leader has
to balance it.
01:03:35.407 --> 01:03:38.452
Because we know Russia has a
lot of corrupt people.
01:03:38.452 --> 01:03:41.313
We know that. I lived there for a
year, OK?
01:03:41.313 --> 01:03:46.943
And I know how a lot of top-level
KGB, former KGB people
01:03:46.943 --> 01:03:51.194
got to be some of the top business
people we hear about today,
01:03:51.194 --> 01:03:56.146
with hundreds of million or billion
dollars net worth.
01:03:56.146 --> 01:03:59.162
So that... you need a leader that
can growl,
01:03:59.162 --> 01:04:02.509
that can bark a little bit when the
situation arises,
01:04:02.509 --> 01:04:07.303
and appeal to his people's
nationalistic tendencies.
01:04:07.303 --> 01:04:09.671
They still have that pride, Russians.
01:04:09.671 --> 01:04:13.374
But yet, do it to a certain degree,
01:04:13.374 --> 01:04:16.411
and not totally piss off and totally
stand up to
01:04:16.411 --> 01:04:20.118
the Western nations that have
the blackmail power.
01:04:20.118 --> 01:04:23.455
That have the power to expose him, OK?
01:04:23.455 --> 01:04:26.735
That is, I believe, what we see
with Putin.
01:04:26.735 --> 01:04:30.152
We do see some really
nice-looking growling,
01:04:30.152 --> 01:04:31.819
and a little woof-woof,
01:04:31.819 --> 01:04:33.668
but Putin is not going to bite.
01:04:33.668 --> 01:04:36.917
And as long as Putin is in this position,
01:04:36.917 --> 01:04:40.786
I don't believe that we are going to
see a full-blown war with Russia.
01:04:40.786 --> 01:04:45.457
It's not gonna happen, because
another thing you should look at is,
01:04:45.457 --> 01:04:46.936
ask yourself,
01:04:46.936 --> 01:04:48.406
and I'm gonna ask, because you both
01:04:48.406 --> 01:04:52.211
are experts with this whole area
and the region,
01:04:52.211 --> 01:04:59.067
how come Russia really hasn't done
anything in the past 15 years
01:04:59.067 --> 01:05:05.541
when the United States and NATO
has been closing in to Russia's borders
01:05:05.541 --> 01:05:08.317
by taking over Azerbaijan,
01:05:08.317 --> 01:05:11.838
you know, until last year, Manas,
Kyrgyzstan;
01:05:11.838 --> 01:05:14.589
Georgia, OK?
01:05:14.589 --> 01:05:19.816
And you start looking at all this,
and say, "Whoa!"
01:05:19.816 --> 01:05:20.913
Think about it!
01:05:20.913 --> 01:05:26.851
Why, for the past 14, 15 years,
Russia hasn't become really antsy.
01:05:26.851 --> 01:05:29.406
Saying, "Well, these are my
backdoor neighbors."
01:05:29.406 --> 01:05:31.218
"They're right there on my border."
01:05:31.218 --> 01:05:32.763
Think about it: why not?
01:05:32.763 --> 01:05:35.249
Let me put it on the other hand and say,
01:05:35.249 --> 01:05:36.477
what would happen...
01:05:36.477 --> 01:05:41.081
imagine, what would happen if Russia
starts building closer relationship
01:05:41.081 --> 01:05:43.376
-- business relationship; militaristically,
relationship --
01:05:43.376 --> 01:05:44.777
with Mexico,
01:05:44.777 --> 01:05:47.913
and starts coming to Mexico
and put a huge base there
01:05:47.913 --> 01:05:52.488
with 15,000 boots on the ground
in the base, with Mexico?
01:05:52.488 --> 01:05:53.650
Oh, it would be chaos!
01:05:53.650 --> 01:05:56.297
Can you imagine?
01:05:56.297 --> 01:05:59.337
First of all, we would not, as United
States, let it get to that point, right?
01:05:59.337 --> 01:06:02.625
And even as a notion would arise,
01:06:02.625 --> 01:06:07.206
we would start using what power we
have with Mexico, right?
01:06:07.206 --> 01:06:09.494
And do everything: that would not happen.
01:06:09.494 --> 01:06:11.969
It would not happen. Not...
01:06:11.969 --> 01:06:13.232
or in Canada, OK?
01:06:13.232 --> 01:06:14.603
Or even let's go further:
01:06:14.603 --> 01:06:16.999
what would happen if, Russia says,
01:06:16.999 --> 01:06:18.330
"Now I'm gonna go and put a base,"
01:06:18.330 --> 01:06:20.090
"because I have now put this
relationship,"
01:06:20.090 --> 01:06:23.097
because a lot of these nations,
all you have to do is make a contract,
01:06:23.097 --> 01:06:25.217
business contract for $15 billion
dollars,
01:06:25.217 --> 01:06:26.740
you have the country and its leader.
01:06:26.740 --> 01:06:29.787
And I'm gonna put it in Panama, OK?
Where the canal is. ;
01:06:29.787 --> 01:06:32.381
Put myself strategically in that
situation.
01:06:32.381 --> 01:06:35.387
Can you imagine that being allowed?
01:06:35.387 --> 01:06:38.733
It wouldn't even come close
to implementation.
01:06:38.733 --> 01:06:42.005
Now, let's go back to the other side.
01:06:42.005 --> 01:06:44.070
How come, for the last 15 years,
01:06:44.070 --> 01:06:50.095
Russia has not made a peep, sound,
about the United States, NATO,
01:06:50.095 --> 01:06:53.818
going and putting all these bases in all
these countries right along its borders?
01:06:53.818 --> 01:06:54.715
Why?
01:06:54.715 --> 01:06:55.212
[laughter]
01:06:55.212 --> 01:06:56.669
(Pearse) I actually don't know,
01:06:56.669 --> 01:06:58.214
because I see it as...
01:06:58.214 --> 01:07:01.167
with Abkhazia and now South Ossetia,
01:07:01.167 --> 01:07:05.102
that Russia might sort of be saying,
"If you're gonna keep moving,"
01:07:05.102 --> 01:07:07.152
"Then we'll take these little tiny
areas,"
01:07:07.152 --> 01:07:09.924
"And what are the Georgians going to do?"
01:07:09.924 --> 01:07:12.344
But I don't know. I'd like to hear your...
01:07:12.344 --> 01:07:13.169
(Sibel) That's right.
01:07:13.169 --> 01:07:16.857
But that would be similar, it would
be parallel to saying,
01:07:16.857 --> 01:07:22.878
we would let Russia to come and
put this bases in, let's say, in Mexico,
01:07:22.878 --> 01:07:26.920
and then if Russia starts coming
towards Texas
01:07:26.920 --> 01:07:30.056
and do something right along
the Texas border,
01:07:30.056 --> 01:07:32.415
then US may flex its muscle.
01:07:32.415 --> 01:07:35.244
But we would never let that happen
in the first place,
01:07:35.244 --> 01:07:38.058
to put ourselves in that vulnerable
situation.
01:07:38.058 --> 01:07:43.767
And even the stupidest Russian
general, Russian strategic analyst,
01:07:43.767 --> 01:07:46.010
they would know from 15 years ago
01:07:46.010 --> 01:07:50.543
that putting these bases by US and
NATO in Kyrgyzstan and Azerbaijan,
01:07:50.543 --> 01:07:56.185
that would definitely lead to what
we saw happening with Ukraine, OK?
01:07:56.185 --> 01:08:00.917
Because the preparation for this
started taking place in mid-'90s.
01:08:00.917 --> 01:08:03.289
When after the fall of the Soviet Union,
01:08:03.289 --> 01:08:08.060
we started seeing with Eastern Europe
and all these nations,
01:08:08.060 --> 01:08:10.140
we're gonna get closer
and closer and closer:
01:08:10.140 --> 01:08:13.208
during this entire period
of 20 years, almost,
01:08:13.208 --> 01:08:15.470
Russia and Russian leaders...
01:08:15.470 --> 01:08:18.674
and we know what kind of Russian
leaders we had even before Putin, right?
01:08:18.674 --> 01:08:21.300
Gorbachev? Very nationalistic, you think?
01:08:21.300 --> 01:08:26.362
Russia sat there and let the
United States and NATO
01:08:26.362 --> 01:08:27.979
closing up on it, right?
01:08:27.979 --> 01:08:32.538
And closing in, closing in, and
now we saw the stuff with Ukraine,
01:08:32.538 --> 01:08:34.577
and then we're gonna be seeing
with Georgia.
01:08:34.577 --> 01:08:36.168
But it was allowed to happen.
01:08:36.168 --> 01:08:39.110
They didn't stand up and say,
"Whoa-whoa-whoa-whoa-whoa!"
01:08:39.110 --> 01:08:41.762
"Over my dead body! You're not coming
this close!"
01:08:41.762 --> 01:08:43.080
They didn't.
01:08:43.080 --> 01:08:47.009
Meaning, Russia never went to war
for any of these places,
01:08:47.009 --> 01:08:50.695
the colonizations that we have been
putting in place in that region.
01:08:50.695 --> 01:08:52.557
We didn't need to have any war
with Russia.
01:08:52.557 --> 01:08:55.961
We didn't even have any kind of
a posturing war with Russia.
01:08:55.961 --> 01:08:58.315
It happened, very easily. Smooth sail.
01:08:58.315 --> 01:09:01.150
Thus, this is why I'm thinking
01:09:01.150 --> 01:09:06.275
that the chances of having a full-blown
war with Russia is highly unlikely,
01:09:06.275 --> 01:09:12.079
unless, unless, we have been
reading the notion and the fact
01:09:12.079 --> 01:09:15.614
that there is a revival of nationalism
in Russia.
01:09:15.614 --> 01:09:22.246
That people, they're... the segment,
the nationalistic segment saying, OK,
01:09:22.246 --> 01:09:25.527
initially, at the end of Cold War, I went
to Russia.
01:09:25.527 --> 01:09:26.621
I lived there for almost a year.
01:09:26.621 --> 01:09:30.046
It was this huge desire
of Westernization,
01:09:30.046 --> 01:09:32.011
especially in Saint Petersburg
and Moscow.
01:09:32.011 --> 01:09:37.102
I arrived in Moscow from Saint P,
because my base was in Saint Petersburg,
01:09:37.102 --> 01:09:39.581
on the day that the first McDonald's
opened In Moscow,
01:09:39.581 --> 01:09:42.060
in this big center there.
01:09:42.060 --> 01:09:44.540
And as we were approaching
01:09:44.540 --> 01:09:46.916
that downtown section where
McDonald's opened,
01:09:46.916 --> 01:09:49.452
the traffic was just stood still.
01:09:49.452 --> 01:09:53.528
They had this line -- and it was a
very big McDonald's building --
01:09:53.528 --> 01:09:59.430
there was this line that wrapped around
this McDonald's building for the opening
01:09:59.430 --> 01:10:04.286
that was, like, going around about
14, 15 times.
01:10:04.286 --> 01:10:07.222
And if you would stand them up in
one linear line,
01:10:07.222 --> 01:10:12.167
you would see almost quarter mile of
a line in front of the first McDonald's.
01:10:12.167 --> 01:10:15.544
It was a huge deal, OK?
01:10:15.544 --> 01:10:17.346
I mean, it was...
01:10:17.346 --> 01:10:23.017
it was during the shock stage of the
Soviet Union disappearing.
01:10:23.017 --> 01:10:24.992
People didn't know what to think.
01:10:24.992 --> 01:10:27.793
They had this desire of openness,
they can wear the...
01:10:27.793 --> 01:10:30.312
they can have lipstick. They can go
and buy this lipstick.
01:10:30.312 --> 01:10:32.227
You don't have to buy it from the
black market.
01:10:32.227 --> 01:10:36.032
And then the country was saturated
with all these vultures
01:10:36.032 --> 01:10:37.739
from the US and from Europe.
01:10:37.739 --> 01:10:41.450
Who were there to take away things
quickly, while things were cheap.
01:10:41.450 --> 01:10:44.468
There was this US group that was buying
01:10:44.468 --> 01:10:46.916
the high-value downtown real estate.
01:10:46.916 --> 01:10:48.929
There was no regulation.
01:10:48.929 --> 01:10:50.940
I mean, it was total chaos,
01:10:50.940 --> 01:10:53.184
and the Western nations were
taking advantage of it.
01:10:53.184 --> 01:10:55.184
They were just placing themselves,
01:10:55.184 --> 01:10:56.770
they were putting their boots,
business boots, on the ground.
01:10:58.356 --> 01:10:59.942
But the Russians were just too baffled.
01:10:59.942 --> 01:11:02.915
They were excited about all the
Western things.
01:11:02.915 --> 01:11:07.232
They were a bit shocked: they couldn't
believe that the Soviet Union was over.
01:11:07.232 --> 01:11:11.891
And so that era of shock and awe for them
01:11:11.891 --> 01:11:16.124
started kind of wearing off around 2002,
2003.
01:11:16.124 --> 01:11:20.510
Now, gradually, we are seeing, to a
certain degree,
01:11:20.510 --> 01:11:25.187
this revival of nationalism in Russia,
by people who are...
01:11:25.187 --> 01:11:26.858
and maybe ex-generals,
01:11:26.858 --> 01:11:31.077
maybe some other ex-intelligence
figures from KGB era
01:11:31.420 --> 01:11:35.576
that are seeing the fact that their
mother nation is being surrounded.
01:11:35.576 --> 01:11:38.295
And they are looking, maybe, at Putin,
01:11:38.295 --> 01:11:40.402
and saying,
"How could you let this happen?"
01:11:40.402 --> 01:11:43.313
OK? And it's the Russian pride.
01:11:43.313 --> 01:11:47.272
So if, for example, Putin is toppled,
01:11:47.272 --> 01:11:53.938
and we see a more real, nationalistic
leader come into power,
01:11:53.938 --> 01:11:58.485
then, sure: I would say, then it would be
likely to see some direct confrontation
01:11:58.485 --> 01:12:03.692
with Russia. But as of now, with Putin,
with his limited woof and bark,
01:12:03.692 --> 01:12:06.823
I would say no: it's not likely. It's not.
01:12:06.823 --> 01:12:11.203
If it were going to happen, we would
have seen it even with Ukraine.
01:12:11.203 --> 01:12:12.629
(Pearse) Yeah.
01:12:12.629 --> 01:12:14.801
We just saw some level of posturing.
01:12:14.801 --> 01:12:20.747
And it made him look taller,
and his rating went up.
01:12:20.747 --> 01:12:22.570
But then I was reading just last week,
01:12:22.570 --> 01:12:25.183
that it's been going gradually
down again.
01:12:25.183 --> 01:12:27.168
Because it gave hope
01:12:27.168 --> 01:12:29.928
to that nationalistic feeling
on the ground in Russia
01:12:29.928 --> 01:12:32.982
that yeah, they're... our leader is
standing up!
01:12:32.982 --> 01:12:34.404
We're not gonna let this happen!
01:12:34.404 --> 01:12:35.933
But, it happened.
01:12:35.933 --> 01:12:39.501
Really, with Ukraine, if you see,
it really happened.
01:12:39.501 --> 01:12:44.836
And I think it's also important to note
that at the end of the day,
01:12:44.836 --> 01:12:48.368
many of these people, while they might
be confrontational in public,
01:12:48.368 --> 01:12:51.461
are essentially working towards the
same end goals
01:12:51.461 --> 01:12:55.196
and, you know, the really, really
independent leaders...
01:12:55.196 --> 01:13:00.479
-- people like Gaddafi or the former
President of the Ivory Coast --
01:13:00.479 --> 01:13:02.059
you know, those people are taken out.
01:13:02.059 --> 01:13:04.187
They're really... they're just murdered
and overthrown.
01:13:04.187 --> 01:13:06.938
You know, any sort of independent
leader like that.
01:13:06.938 --> 01:13:09.182
So you know, you do have to
wonder sometimes.
01:13:09.182 --> 01:13:12.427
But I know we've been talking now
for quite a while,
01:13:12.427 --> 01:13:14.311
and Tom, you've been a little quiet,
01:13:14.311 --> 01:13:16.146
so before we wrap up, Tom,
01:13:16.146 --> 01:13:18.658
do you have any quick questions
you'd like to ask Sibel?
01:13:18.658 --> 01:13:23.008
(Tom) No, but I am thinking
about this subject
01:13:23.008 --> 01:13:24.672
and this question that you've raised,
01:13:24.672 --> 01:13:33.078
and I'm not 100 percent convinced
-- I'll say that much -- but...
01:13:33.078 --> 01:13:35.917
it is an interesting question.
01:13:35.917 --> 01:13:38.226
Maybe that would be a good place
to kick off
01:13:38.226 --> 01:13:39.820
a further conversation on this,
01:13:39.820 --> 01:13:45.117
because we've perhaps got to the end
of our conversation
01:13:45.117 --> 01:13:46.853
about The Lone Gladio per se
01:13:46.853 --> 01:13:50.501
but a lot of this stuff that's spinning
out from this conversation, I think,
01:13:50.501 --> 01:13:54.459
is certainly worthy of greater
discussion.
01:13:54.459 --> 01:13:58.109
And I'd be interested to see
how our differing approaches
01:13:58.109 --> 01:14:00.640
kind of, how we could marry
them together,
01:14:00.640 --> 01:14:05.142
and at least delineate differences
between our perspectives on this.
01:14:05.142 --> 01:14:07.690
so, I mean, yeah. Perhaps we'll leave
it here,
01:14:07.690 --> 01:14:11.884
and hopefully in the near future,
the three of us can explore this again.
01:14:11.884 --> 01:14:14.096
Because I do think we're starting
to, now,
01:14:14.096 --> 01:14:16.789
get into some really
interesting territory.
01:14:16.789 --> 01:14:19.663
But again, I'd like to thank both
of you guys
01:14:19.663 --> 01:14:22.008
for joining me today. It was a
wonderful conversation.
01:14:22.008 --> 01:14:24.600
(Pearse) And quickly, Sibel:
where can they find
01:14:24.600 --> 01:14:26.893
The Lone Gladio? Where can
they find your work?
01:14:26.893 --> 01:14:31.717
(Sibel) Sure. The Lone Gladio is
available via Amazon,
01:14:31.717 --> 01:14:35.067
both print book and also
electronically through Kindle.
01:14:35.067 --> 01:14:38.507
but people who don't want to
deal with Amazon,
01:14:38.507 --> 01:14:43.748
they can purchase it directly from
the website TheLoneGladio.com
01:14:43.748 --> 01:14:46.280
and they can have, even, signed copies.
01:14:46.280 --> 01:14:51.053
So those are the two top places,
and easiest places,
01:14:51.053 --> 01:14:55.267
for people to obtain, purchase,
The Lone Gladio
01:14:55.267 --> 01:14:58.653
But even if they just go to
TheLoneGladio.com website,
01:14:58.653 --> 01:15:00.733
they will see the links from there
01:15:00.733 --> 01:15:03.507
to all the other channels where
they can get the book,
01:15:03.507 --> 01:15:05.260
either electronically or in print.
01:15:05.260 --> 01:15:07.219
(Pearse) And Tom, I'm sure that almost
all my listeners
01:15:07.219 --> 01:15:09.178
know where to find your work,
01:15:09.178 --> 01:15:11.137
but we've always got new people coming,
01:15:11.137 --> 01:15:13.180
so please, tell everybody about
your website,
01:15:13.180 --> 01:15:15.557
your podcast, and your novel as well.
01:15:15.557 --> 01:15:18.103
Or -- excuse me! -- not a novel:
book. [laughs]
01:15:18.103 --> 01:15:22.765
(Tom) Sure. I mean, my main website
is SpyCulture.com,
01:15:22.765 --> 01:15:28.388
and on there you'll find links to my book
about 7/7, Secret Spies and 7/7.
01:15:28.388 --> 01:15:32.561
I also do an about fortnightly podcast
called ClandesTime
01:15:32.561 --> 01:15:34.563
that's available on Spy Culture
and on YouTube.
01:15:34.563 --> 01:15:37.424
So anybody who hasn't already
checked that out, please do.
01:15:37.424 --> 01:15:42.375
(Pearse) All right. well, thank you both,
again, for joining,
01:15:42.375 --> 01:15:42.940
and I hope we can pick this up
again soon.
01:15:42.940 --> 01:15:44.984
But thanks so much.
01:15:44.984 --> 01:15:46.953
(Sibel) Thank you. Sorry for dominating
the conversation.
01:15:46.953 --> 01:15:50.285
So next time, I really want to hear
your perspectives on this.
01:15:50.285 --> 01:15:51.951
As I said, with some of the answers,
01:15:51.951 --> 01:15:54.917
I have had only hypotheses
or some theories to offer,
01:15:54.917 --> 01:15:56.634
not as concrete fact,
01:15:56.634 --> 01:15:58.629
so I would love to get your opinions
on that.
01:15:58.629 --> 01:16:00.441
And also, thank you for the opportunity.
01:16:00.441 --> 01:16:02.120
it was great, thank you.
01:16:02.120 --> 01:16:05.963
(Tom) Thank you Pierce, and thank you
Sibel. it's been great talking to both of you.
01:16:05.963 --> 01:16:08.858
(Pearse) OK, everybody.
01:16:08.858 --> 01:16:11.753
So, that about does it for this episode of Porkins Policy Radio.
01:16:11.753 --> 01:16:14.650
Thank you all for joining me and
listening to this podcast.
01:16:14.650 --> 01:16:17.031
And if you enjoyed this and you'd
like to hear some more,
01:16:17.031 --> 01:16:20.762
then please visit
PorkinsPolicyReview.wordpress.com
01:16:20.762 --> 01:16:23.974
And there you can find all of the
podcasts free for download.
01:16:23.974 --> 01:16:26.510
you can, of course, find them on
YouTube also,
01:16:26.510 --> 01:16:30.785
and if you use YouTube, then please,
please subscribe to my YouTube channel,
01:16:30.785 --> 01:16:35.260
which is YouTube.com/1138porkins
01:16:35.260 --> 01:16:39.551
And also definitely follow me on
Twitter @porkinspolicy,
01:16:39.551 --> 01:16:42.642
and you can also follow the podcast
through the RSS feed,
01:16:42.642 --> 01:16:44.864
and also through email blasts as well.
01:16:44.864 --> 01:16:49.390
And I just have a few quick programming
notes before I completely sign off.
01:16:49.390 --> 01:16:53.911
Just want to thank everybody who listened
to the second episode
01:16:53.911 --> 01:16:55.512
of me and Christoph Germann's
new podcast,
01:16:55.512 --> 01:16:57.691
Porkins Great Game.
01:16:57.691 --> 01:17:02.463
We've gotten tremendous feedback
and lots of hits on that episode.
01:17:02.463 --> 01:17:07.089
So I'm really grateful for everybody
that's been listening to it
01:17:07.089 --> 01:17:10.485
and putting it up on social media,
and whatnot like that.
01:17:10.485 --> 01:17:11.574
And it's been really great.
01:17:11.574 --> 01:17:15.449
And again, you can find that on the
main site, as well as on YouTube.
01:17:15.449 --> 01:17:18.062
And I just want to say one other
quick thing.
01:17:18.062 --> 01:17:19.859
And I know that I made a promise...
01:17:19.859 --> 01:17:22.936
I believe it was actually the last time
I spoke to Sibel
01:17:22.936 --> 01:17:27.512
that I would have two episodes up
on Porkins Policy Radio.
01:17:27.512 --> 01:17:29.132
One dealing with Scientology,
01:17:29.132 --> 01:17:31.547
and one dealing with Jim Jones
and The People's Temple.
01:17:31.547 --> 01:17:34.450
Well, I just want to say that I have
not forgotten about that,
01:17:34.450 --> 01:17:38.065
and I have been doing quite a bit
of research on Jim Jones.
01:17:38.065 --> 01:17:40.206
And I think that'll probably be
the episode,
01:17:40.206 --> 01:17:43.467
the next episode for
Porkins Policy Radio.
01:17:43.467 --> 01:17:48.095
So definitely stay tuned, and look out
for that one on the horizon.
01:17:48.095 --> 01:17:52.805
And again, we will be speaking with
both Sibel and Tom again very soon,
01:17:52.805 --> 01:17:56.173
and expand on some of the issues that
we discussed, again, in this podcast.
01:17:56.173 --> 01:17:58.794
So with that, I just want to
thank everybody.
01:17:58.794 --> 01:18:02.749
And again, if you liked this podcast,
please tell a friend.
01:18:02.749 --> 01:18:06.105
Email it to someone, put it up on
your social media, whatever:
01:18:06.105 --> 01:18:10.527
just help spread the word, because... and
I just want to say, the fans have been...
01:18:10.527 --> 01:18:12.387
the listeners are just fantastic.
01:18:12.387 --> 01:18:14.725
Everyone has been promoting the show,
01:18:14.725 --> 01:18:16.550
and it's really fantastic.
01:18:16.550 --> 01:18:18.790
And a quick shout-out to James Corbett,
01:18:18.790 --> 01:18:23.298
who included this podcast and me
and Christoph's podcast
01:18:23.298 --> 01:18:29.390
as one of the podcasts that he listens
to in his Reddit AMA.
01:18:29.390 --> 01:18:31.273
So that was very cool and very awesome,
01:18:31.273 --> 01:18:32.705
and thanks so much, James.
01:18:32.705 --> 01:18:34.708
So, I think we're there, we're gonna
leave it,
01:18:34.708 --> 01:18:35.914
and I will be talking to you very soon.
01:18:35.914 --> 01:18:54.663
♪ [ Philip Glass – “Mishima/Closing”
(Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters) ] ♪
01:21:20.544 --> 01:21:25.163
[Subtitled by "Adjuvant"]
[CC-BY 4.0]