1 00:00:05,063 --> 00:00:08,157 Bill Trevaskis: Imagine you're in a movie theater full of people. 2 00:00:08,164 --> 00:00:11,985 Right away you notice differences in clothing, skin color, hair style, 3 00:00:12,253 --> 00:00:14,459 symbols of religious or cultural affiliation 4 00:00:14,459 --> 00:00:16,153 that they choose to display. 5 00:00:16,889 --> 00:00:20,687 However, beyond simple observation, we're not able to see 6 00:00:20,687 --> 00:00:24,626 the thoughts, feelings, and experiences that make us each outliers. 7 00:00:28,689 --> 00:00:30,735 You're listening to the 12 KNOTS podcast. 8 00:00:30,908 --> 00:00:32,054 I'm Bill Trevaskis. 9 00:00:38,316 --> 00:00:43,179 Feeling different can be challenging but sometimes that challenge is self-imposed. 10 00:00:43,994 --> 00:00:46,734 As a kid growing up in suburban Southern California, 11 00:00:46,734 --> 00:00:50,550 I was never under too much pressure to join a club, make the honor roll, 12 00:00:50,550 --> 00:00:51,935 or play sports. 13 00:00:52,368 --> 00:00:54,587 With few a thousand students in my high school, 14 00:00:54,859 --> 00:00:57,385 there were plenty of kids to fill each position. 15 00:01:01,962 --> 00:01:05,520 At the K-12 school in North Haven, the small island town where I live, 16 00:01:06,232 --> 00:01:09,205 basketball is the school's only varsity team sport. 17 00:01:09,889 --> 00:01:12,338 It's a unifying force during the long winters here. 18 00:01:12,989 --> 00:01:16,722 So one night at a game I asked fans one simple question. 19 00:01:17,691 --> 00:01:21,008 To you, what does basketball mean to this community? 20 00:01:21,802 --> 00:01:24,613 Participant: Good to keep the spirits up in the winter time. 21 00:01:24,613 --> 00:01:26,215 Participant: I would say it means getting together 22 00:01:26,215 --> 00:01:29,929 so that the older crowd knows the younger ones. 23 00:01:29,929 --> 00:01:32,832 Participant: I think it's been a long standing , really important thing 24 00:01:32,832 --> 00:01:34,384 in this community. 25 00:01:34,550 --> 00:01:36,499 Participant:. A feeling I have for basketball: 26 00:01:36,499 --> 00:01:39,384 just to love to go watch basketball 27 00:01:39,723 --> 00:01:44,681 Participant: Basketball in the winter here provides the entire community 28 00:01:44,681 --> 00:01:50,125 with something to do on Friday and Saturday nights, with entertainment, 29 00:01:50,129 --> 00:01:53,988 and also every once in a while something to feel really good about. 30 00:01:54,256 --> 00:01:58,300 Participant: There is just a long, long tradition of basketball here 31 00:01:58,317 --> 00:02:05,201 and for me, probably one of the biggest things is that it's the arena 32 00:02:05,201 --> 00:02:08,165 where the community has always come together 33 00:02:08,165 --> 00:02:13,037 in the midst of the long cold winter and it makes people happy. 34 00:02:18,454 --> 00:02:21,096 Bill T.: You might think that there's a lot of pressure to 35 00:02:21,096 --> 00:02:24,526 play a game like basketball in a town as small as North Haven. 36 00:02:24,947 --> 00:02:27,806 And to many high school students, there is. 37 00:02:28,097 --> 00:02:30,306 Jake Greenlaw: Hello, my name is Jake Greenlaw. 38 00:02:30,309 --> 00:02:32,659 Bill T: This is my good friend, Jake. Jake G.: Check, check. 39 00:02:32,949 --> 00:02:34,709 Bill T.: Jake grew up on the island 40 00:02:34,709 --> 00:02:38,717 and he graduated from North Haven Community School in 2003. 41 00:02:39,099 --> 00:02:40,774 Jake G.; such a long time ago. 42 00:02:40,774 --> 00:02:42,335 Bill T.: I started out by asking Jake 43 00:02:42,335 --> 00:02:44,742 these same question I asked the fans at the game: 44 00:02:44,742 --> 00:02:48,272 What does basketball mean to the community of North Haven? 45 00:02:51,719 --> 00:02:55,588 Jake G.: Growing up out here, it was definitely a big thing in the school 46 00:02:55,588 --> 00:03:00,379 and everyone was kind of pushed to play the sport. 47 00:03:00,873 --> 00:03:04,812 All of the older people around me at that point 48 00:03:04,812 --> 00:03:06,502 were very into basketball. 49 00:03:06,502 --> 00:03:09,941 They had all -- my father and all of his classmates 50 00:03:09,941 --> 00:03:11,081 had played basketball, 51 00:03:11,081 --> 00:03:13,759 and he would look through all the pilots and see how... 52 00:03:13,759 --> 00:03:15,913 Bill T.: The Pilot he's referring to the school yearbook. 53 00:03:15,913 --> 00:03:16,955 Jake G.:... bad ass they all looked, and 54 00:03:16,955 --> 00:03:20,625 it was very important to play basketball out here. 55 00:03:21,015 --> 00:03:24,258 I was just never that into sports. 56 00:03:28,236 --> 00:03:32,613 I always wanted to be that guy who was really good at basketball. 57 00:03:33,954 --> 00:03:40,775 I mean, because I had -- all my friends around me were into basketball. 58 00:03:41,024 --> 00:03:48,281 They all play on the team and I was just into other things. 59 00:03:48,499 --> 00:03:53,894 I was just like not into sports. I've never been into sports. 60 00:03:54,384 --> 00:03:59,181 Bill T.: Was there anyone else in your class who didn't play? 61 00:03:59,796 --> 00:04:00,981 Jake G.: Not really. 62 00:04:00,981 --> 00:04:06,984 No, it was like ... I mean, I played pee-wee basketball. 63 00:04:06,984 --> 00:04:10,096 My dad coached pee-wee basketball actually. 64 00:04:13,291 --> 00:04:19,520 But I did enjoy the just hanging out with your friends, 65 00:04:19,954 --> 00:04:24,424 and when we would go away and on trips, 66 00:04:24,444 --> 00:04:28,665 I would love the bus ride and going out to restaurants. 67 00:04:33,242 --> 00:04:36,352 Eva Hopkins: I was never really ... definitely wasn't a player 68 00:04:36,352 --> 00:04:40,902 and I wasn't into going to the games either, so it's still very mysterious. 69 00:04:40,902 --> 00:04:42,273 I am Eva Hopkins. 70 00:04:42,636 --> 00:04:45,697 Bill T.: Like Jake, Eva graduated from North Haven Community School 71 00:04:46,022 --> 00:04:51,796 and knowing her during that time, I wondered what she felt about basketball. 72 00:04:52,125 --> 00:04:55,616 Eva H.: ...it wasn't super high on my list of things 73 00:04:55,616 --> 00:04:57,850 I really wanted to leave the house for. 74 00:04:58,028 --> 00:05:00,940 To be fair, there wasn't a lot on that list anyway. 75 00:05:01,452 --> 00:05:04,757 Bill T.: So why, I mean, maybe there's one reason, 76 00:05:04,757 --> 00:05:07,446 maybe there are several, but why didn't you play? 77 00:05:08,528 --> 00:05:10,715 Just to be clear, you didn't play at all. 78 00:05:10,715 --> 00:05:12,089 Eva H.: I didn't play at all. 79 00:05:12,089 --> 00:05:18,673 I think actually I went to one practice maybe, 80 00:05:18,673 --> 00:05:23,260 I don't know if it was pee-wee or if it was older. 81 00:05:23,489 --> 00:05:30,084 It might have been pee- wee, but I went because I almost felt like I had to. 82 00:05:30,351 --> 00:05:34,962 But at the time, I was also very involved in music, 83 00:05:34,962 --> 00:05:38,086 and in particular in the piano 84 00:05:38,086 --> 00:05:41,617 and learning as much as I could about how to play 85 00:05:41,623 --> 00:05:45,262 and that was really where my passion was. 86 00:05:45,540 --> 00:05:49,750 And the first exercise that we were doing, 87 00:05:52,325 --> 00:05:55,418 I don't know,I must have caught the ball funny and it like 88 00:05:55,765 --> 00:05:57,590 I think it bent back my thumb or something. 89 00:05:57,590 --> 00:06:01,576 It was kind of a realization that oh, yes, death can happen to you. 90 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:07,655 There's danger and I just I didn't want to break fingers 91 00:06:07,655 --> 00:06:12,892 or then lose practice time with my instrument 92 00:06:12,892 --> 00:06:19,028 and it just wasn't worth it for me so I was kind of done. 93 00:06:23,670 --> 00:06:28,697 I might have been the only girl in my class who didn't play. 94 00:06:28,975 --> 00:06:30,767 As far as it went in school, 95 00:06:30,767 --> 00:06:34,491 there were plenty of other people in the girl's team at the time 96 00:06:34,491 --> 00:06:36,454 that I could have played, 97 00:06:36,454 --> 00:06:42,567 and it wasn't if you don't play there's no team. 98 00:06:44,359 --> 00:06:47,277 Yeah, it just made sense for me not to play. 99 00:06:55,414 --> 00:06:57,942 Jake G.:I think people are more accepting now in a way. 100 00:06:58,250 --> 00:07:00,653 Bill T.: They're more accepting to the choices people make? 101 00:07:00,653 --> 00:07:01,757 Jake G.: Yeah. 102 00:07:01,757 --> 00:07:06,240 Bill T.: So, did you ever personally experience any backlash 103 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,166 or was it just in your head. 104 00:07:08,166 --> 00:07:13,651 Jake G.: You know I was lucky because people already knew me. 105 00:07:14,017 --> 00:07:19,222 I was already a theater guy. I was already a music guy. 106 00:07:20,035 --> 00:07:22,595 People knew I was good at something. 107 00:07:23,448 --> 00:07:30,719 But I feel for the kids that haven't quite found themselves 108 00:07:30,719 --> 00:07:33,220 or anything that they really like to do yet 109 00:07:33,220 --> 00:07:37,024 and are just like -- feel so uncomfortable in themselves, 110 00:07:37,434 --> 00:07:41,249 but like out here, and if you don't have the right group of friends 111 00:07:42,023 --> 00:07:49,251 and if you're not doing one of those things, it can just eat you alive. 112 00:08:01,998 --> 00:08:05,681 Bill T.: After talking to Jake and Eva, I wanted to get a different perspective. 113 00:08:06,420 --> 00:08:08,628 The population at North Haven Community School 114 00:08:08,628 --> 00:08:10,227 right now is pretty small. 115 00:08:10,801 --> 00:08:14,021 For example, there are only five girls in the whole high school. 116 00:08:14,021 --> 00:08:16,079 Ashlynn: ... I saw that earlier and I got really scared. 117 00:08:16,079 --> 00:08:18,369 Bill T.: I spoke with a couple of them about basketball. 118 00:08:18,675 --> 00:08:22,225 Ashlynn: Ashlynn and I'm a senior nd I'm 17. 119 00:08:23,352 --> 00:08:27,005 Shyanne W.: I'm Shyanne Waterman, I'm a junior in high school and I'm 16 120 00:08:28,511 --> 00:08:34,187 Ashlynn: I don't know, I don't really feel like I was ever forced to do it 121 00:08:34,537 --> 00:08:39,235 but people definitely didn't like it if you didn't play. 122 00:08:39,718 --> 00:08:41,032 Bill T.: What do you mean? 123 00:08:41,219 --> 00:08:42,727 Ashlynn: Like if you didn't play, 124 00:08:42,727 --> 00:08:45,621 they felt like you had an issue with them personally, 125 00:08:45,895 --> 00:08:49,473 like another kid who wanted you to play and you said, "No, I don't want to play." 126 00:08:49,479 --> 00:08:52,619 They were like, "Oh," and they would take it more personally 127 00:08:52,619 --> 00:08:54,619 than just the fact you didn't want to play. 128 00:08:55,131 --> 00:08:57,040 It was mostly students I feel like. 129 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,690 I mean the coaches kind of understood like it's not for everyone. 130 00:09:00,690 --> 00:09:02,599 It's just kind of like, everyone would do it 131 00:09:02,599 --> 00:09:04,951 just to do it and have fun for the few kids 132 00:09:04,951 --> 00:09:07,234 who did actually really want to do it 133 00:09:07,502 --> 00:09:09,146 since there were so few kids. 134 00:09:09,925 --> 00:09:11,305 Bill T.: Did you play at all? 135 00:09:11,686 --> 00:09:13,951 Ashlynn: Mm-hmm), I played for two years. 136 00:09:14,935 --> 00:09:16,702 Bill T.: Freshman and sophomore year? 137 00:09:16,702 --> 00:09:18,996 Ashlynn: No, eighth grade and freshman year. 138 00:09:22,256 --> 00:09:27,389 Now that there are so few kids that it's that they're a lot tougher on the kids, 139 00:09:27,389 --> 00:09:30,029 that they want every single person to play, 140 00:09:30,029 --> 00:09:32,213 because just one kid saying I don't want to play 141 00:09:32,216 --> 00:09:35,192 makes a difference on whether or not there's a team of the year. 142 00:09:36,216 --> 00:09:41,318 Bill T.: Have you ever felt personally, I don't want to say ... 143 00:09:41,318 --> 00:09:43,460 have you ever just felt guilty about not playing 144 00:09:43,471 --> 00:09:46,470 or have you ever been made to feel guilty about not playing? 145 00:09:46,470 --> 00:09:52,241 Ashlynn: I did my sophomore year because I couldn't play 146 00:09:52,241 --> 00:09:55,000 because I injured my shoulder the year before 147 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:59,702 during the basketball season and shouldn't have even finished that season 148 00:09:59,702 --> 00:10:05,047 but since I did, I injured it more and wasn't able to play again the next year. 149 00:10:05,413 --> 00:10:09,191 Then people just didn't understand that 150 00:10:09,191 --> 00:10:11,609 because they couldn't physically see something wrong with me 151 00:10:11,649 --> 00:10:13,837 like I wasn't in a cast or something, so they were like, 152 00:10:13,837 --> 00:10:15,435 "No, you're fine to play," 153 00:10:15,650 --> 00:10:18,577 and they thought I was just using it as an excuse not to play. 154 00:10:18,577 --> 00:10:22,582 Yeah, I felt they definitely tried to like guilt me into playing and they said, 155 00:10:22,582 --> 00:10:26,809 "Oh, even if you just go to practices and do this, 156 00:10:26,809 --> 00:10:29,734 it's because you don't want to play in the games or something." 157 00:10:33,052 --> 00:10:35,268 I always enjoyed going to see everyone play. 158 00:10:35,268 --> 00:10:37,877 It's just basketball wasn't my thing. 159 00:10:37,877 --> 00:10:41,885 Sports have never really been my thing at all. 160 00:10:42,213 --> 00:10:43,839 I don't know, I enjoyed going and seeing it, 161 00:10:43,854 --> 00:10:49,014 it's just play, I'm not athletic at all, it's just embarrassing. 162 00:10:58,857 --> 00:11:01,520 Shyanne W.: I always feel guilted and pressured into playing 163 00:11:01,831 --> 00:11:05,367 because I played my freshman, sophomore, 164 00:11:05,773 --> 00:11:09,344 and I probably would have played this year had there been a team, 165 00:11:09,344 --> 00:11:12,818 because everyone is like, "Oh, come on, you're tall. Play basketball!" 166 00:11:12,923 --> 00:11:16,092 Bill T.: So you're saying the culture hasn't really changed around 167 00:11:17,362 --> 00:11:18,513 pushing people to play? 168 00:11:19,486 --> 00:11:21,831 Shyanne W.: I mean, in my experience, no. 169 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:24,975 I don't know, just because it's like kind of a North Haven thing. 170 00:11:24,975 --> 00:11:28,572 Everybody is super excited for basketball season 171 00:11:28,588 --> 00:11:33,991 because that's the highlight of everybody's winter weekends usually. 172 00:11:34,244 --> 00:11:36,215 If there's not a team, 173 00:11:36,215 --> 00:11:40,259 then everybody is not as excited for things during winter. 174 00:11:42,904 --> 00:11:44,333 Bill T.: Is there a girls' team this year? 175 00:11:44,715 --> 00:11:46,056 Ashlyn:There's not going to be, no. 176 00:11:46,412 --> 00:11:47,818 Bill T.: Not enough girls? 177 00:11:47,829 --> 00:11:49,466 Ashlyn: No, not enough high school girls, no, 178 00:11:49,653 --> 00:11:52,994 so they're going to do a junior for RC or something like that instead. 179 00:11:52,994 --> 00:11:55,365 Bill T.: Would you have played had there been a team? 180 00:11:55,365 --> 00:11:59,051 Ashlyn: No. I don't know, 181 00:11:59,051 --> 00:12:02,734 it will be interesting to see what actually happens. 182 00:12:03,406 --> 00:12:05,388 Barney H: I think the amazing thing about this community is 183 00:12:05,388 --> 00:12:07,761 it doesn't matter whether the team is good or bad, 184 00:12:08,434 --> 00:12:13,167 they come out, they cheer for them, they applaud every kid. 185 00:12:13,850 --> 00:12:20,765 So in a way, when I look back on it I think that's probably the best thing. 186 00:12:20,772 --> 00:12:23,151 It isn't that we're going to have championship teams. 187 00:12:23,151 --> 00:12:26,405 We have a community that supports the kids doing what they're doing. 188 00:12:31,344 --> 00:12:33,076 Bill T.: Lack of interest in sports 189 00:12:33,076 --> 00:12:36,648 is one of the many hidden diversities that exists on the small island. 190 00:12:37,210 --> 00:12:39,302 Here's another one that's becoming less hidden. 191 00:12:43,457 --> 00:12:46,860 The idea for this story came when a friend at the Historical Society 192 00:12:46,865 --> 00:12:51,126 gave us a photocopied article from a 1901 issue of The Courier-Gazette, 193 00:12:51,631 --> 00:12:53,768 the newspaper that still serves Rockland, Maine 194 00:12:53,768 --> 00:12:56,088 and the towns around our island of North Haven. 195 00:12:58,057 --> 00:12:59,816 Courtney: "Carvers Dual Existence. 196 00:13:00,199 --> 00:13:03,715 Strange case at North Haven astonishes the world. 197 00:13:04,003 --> 00:13:06,990 Young man who wore female apparel for 30 years 198 00:13:07,247 --> 00:13:10,852 publishes statement that he belongs to the opposite sex." 199 00:13:11,667 --> 00:13:14,226 Bill T.: My wife, Courtney, one of the producers of this show 200 00:13:14,739 --> 00:13:17,788 realized that this story was a piece of a bigger puzzle. 201 00:13:18,628 --> 00:13:20,634 What is it like to be in the QuiltBag, 202 00:13:20,914 --> 00:13:24,139 an acronym for non-heterosexual or cisgender identities 203 00:13:24,403 --> 00:13:26,546 in a place as small as North Haven? 204 00:13:29,755 --> 00:13:32,737 Courtney: Arthur Lesley Carver, the person from the headline 205 00:13:33,061 --> 00:13:36,266 was raised as a woman on North Haven in the late 1800, 206 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,109 and at 30 issued a sworn affidavit 207 00:13:39,109 --> 00:13:42,697 that he actually was and always had been a man. 208 00:13:43,014 --> 00:13:47,702 The reason for the duality isn't specified but the article mentions a nurse 209 00:13:47,702 --> 00:13:50,422 who noticed unusual conditions at his birth. 210 00:13:50,775 --> 00:13:54,036 So it's reasonable to assume that Arthur was intersex. 211 00:13:54,501 --> 00:13:58,848 Lillian, as he was known, was described as having a fair complexion 212 00:13:58,848 --> 00:14:00,473 and striking eyes, 213 00:14:00,473 --> 00:14:02,117 and was considered an example 214 00:14:02,117 --> 00:14:05,124 of the fair and buxom daughters of the island 215 00:14:05,131 --> 00:14:06,982 and had many male suitors. 216 00:14:07,287 --> 00:14:10,965 A religious conversion inspired Arthur to claim his male identity, 217 00:14:11,371 --> 00:14:16,005 which he did a safe distance from North Haven in Dorchester, Massachusetts. 218 00:14:20,285 --> 00:14:23,577 It's fascinating and a little terrifying 219 00:14:23,902 --> 00:14:26,836 to think what the reaction back home must have been. 220 00:14:27,285 --> 00:14:31,266 The Courier describes Carver's fear of creating a sensation. 221 00:14:31,888 --> 00:14:36,524 I wondered, do contemporary North Haveners have the same fear? 222 00:14:41,725 --> 00:14:44,182 Jacqueline C.: Chris and I, just before we came up here 223 00:14:44,182 --> 00:14:46,162 were talking about growing up. 224 00:14:46,162 --> 00:14:48,106 We were best friends and we did everything together 225 00:14:48,106 --> 00:14:50,152 and I remember when he talked about coming out 226 00:14:50,152 --> 00:14:51,586 and I was like, "No, no, no." 227 00:14:51,937 --> 00:14:53,930 It was so funny because now we like look back on it, 228 00:14:53,930 --> 00:14:56,361 and it's like, "Okay, we're both gay." 229 00:14:58,510 --> 00:15:00,843 Jacqueline Curtis, 31. 230 00:15:01,101 --> 00:15:03,148 Chris Emerson: Chris Emerson. I'm 30. 231 00:15:03,148 --> 00:15:11,635 It was pretty clear that I was gay and I didn't fit into the straight stereotype. 232 00:15:12,001 --> 00:15:14,075 My brother knew as well. 233 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,210 I always, when we played together, I was always the princess. 234 00:15:18,210 --> 00:15:21,550 Jacqueline C.: I feel like I probably had an inkling from a really young age 235 00:15:21,550 --> 00:15:24,439 but I didn't really understand what that meant. 236 00:15:24,439 --> 00:15:27,552 And I think it's actually when I started to kiss boys 237 00:15:27,886 --> 00:15:32,260 and I didn't have that sort of butterfly feeling, 238 00:15:32,260 --> 00:15:35,481 I actually got really nervous and had a lot of anxiety 239 00:15:35,481 --> 00:15:36,939 and I remember feeling like 240 00:15:36,939 --> 00:15:39,624 "Well, this doesn't feel like I think it should feel." 241 00:15:39,624 --> 00:15:43,762 But as I got a little older, I was able to kind of kiss boys 242 00:15:43,762 --> 00:15:47,107 and I made myself think that that was what I wanted it to be. 243 00:15:47,107 --> 00:15:50,534 Once that the relationships developed, 244 00:15:50,534 --> 00:15:53,638 I had obviously more feelings than just gut feelings, 245 00:15:53,783 --> 00:15:57,242 but it still wasn't always the right feeling. 246 00:15:58,802 --> 00:16:00,647 Stacy Beverage: My name is Stacy Beverage. 247 00:16:00,647 --> 00:16:04,849 I'm 43 and I've lived on North Haven basically all my life. 248 00:16:04,849 --> 00:16:11,276 I was born here down at the clinic and moved away for about 12, 13 years 249 00:16:11,276 --> 00:16:12,585 and lived in Portland. 250 00:16:12,585 --> 00:16:13,595 And now, I'm back. 251 00:16:14,476 --> 00:16:16,386 Stephanie: I'm Stephanie, age 23, 252 00:16:16,386 --> 00:16:19,820 and I've lived on North Haven: basically my whole life, summered out here, 253 00:16:20,345 --> 00:16:22,736 and then moved out here permanently in second grade. 254 00:16:28,457 --> 00:16:31,274 Stacy B.: I was actually married to a man 255 00:16:31,683 --> 00:16:33,390 and we were living out here. 256 00:16:33,756 --> 00:16:38,307 And I just knew something wasn't totally right 257 00:16:38,713 --> 00:16:44,290 and went and started visiting a friend in Portland who I was not dating. 258 00:16:44,290 --> 00:16:45,946 She was just a really good friend from college. 259 00:16:46,311 --> 00:16:52,286 And she had just come out as gay and suddenly it just sort of clicked that 260 00:16:52,286 --> 00:16:56,518 "oh, that's why things aren't working well in my relationship." 261 00:16:56,518 --> 00:17:00,240 But I mean, it was all good because I'm still great friends with my ex-husband 262 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,083 and he was great about it. 263 00:17:02,410 --> 00:17:05,208 And as far as -- I mean, my family was great about it. 264 00:17:05,208 --> 00:17:07,195 I've never really had any backlash from it, 265 00:17:08,211 --> 00:17:09,505 which is sort of surprising 266 00:17:09,511 --> 00:17:12,219 because you think, a small island off the coast of Maine, 267 00:17:12,447 --> 00:17:15,717 maybe they would be really conservative but everyone's been great. 268 00:17:22,427 --> 00:17:25,526 Tobias McKenzie: I mean, yeah, my story is kind of anti-climatic too. 269 00:17:25,526 --> 00:17:28,459 I realized pretty early on, probably like in middle school 270 00:17:28,459 --> 00:17:29,956 and then just kept it to myself 271 00:17:29,956 --> 00:17:36,531 because there wasn't a huge community of LGBT anything out here. 272 00:17:36,874 --> 00:17:40,363 And so, then I went to college in Burlington, Vermont 273 00:17:41,612 --> 00:17:43,928 and got to experience new and different things 274 00:17:44,154 --> 00:17:47,088 and came back here and recently have come out 275 00:17:47,088 --> 00:17:50,918 and really it's just nothing interesting I guess. 276 00:17:56,701 --> 00:17:59,174 Courtney: The anti-climax, as Stephanie put it, 277 00:17:59,390 --> 00:18:02,369 of North Haven's willingness to accept its out community members 278 00:18:02,626 --> 00:18:03,912 was a pleasant surprise. 279 00:18:07,082 --> 00:18:10,419 The same was true for another young North Havener who I spoke with. 280 00:18:11,912 --> 00:18:15,333 Tobias McKenzie: I'm Tobias McKenzie and currently, I'm 26 years old. 281 00:18:15,855 --> 00:18:17,409 I'm a trans male. 282 00:18:17,709 --> 00:18:21,441 I moved to the island when -- right before my ninth birthday. 283 00:18:21,903 --> 00:18:23,467 I have several other siblings 284 00:18:23,467 --> 00:18:25,414 but I was the oldest kid in the house growing up. 285 00:18:25,691 --> 00:18:27,169 I grew up with a little brother. 286 00:18:27,169 --> 00:18:29,813 We moved to the island when my parents retired 287 00:18:29,813 --> 00:18:32,241 and wanted to build their dream house. 288 00:18:32,608 --> 00:18:35,261 I always had a sense that something was different. 289 00:18:35,717 --> 00:18:40,043 I think one of the most significant points 290 00:18:40,043 --> 00:18:42,561 was that growing up I had no idea I was trans 291 00:18:42,561 --> 00:18:48,227 because I had absolutely no way to understand how I felt inside. 292 00:18:48,514 --> 00:18:51,241 So I predominantly suppressed it. 293 00:18:52,081 --> 00:18:57,209 When I moved to California and to San Jose at age 20, 294 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,632 I started looking around more and started to get a clearer picture 295 00:19:02,632 --> 00:19:04,603 of what was going on inside my head. 296 00:19:05,092 --> 00:19:08,705 Growing up, it was always a struggle 297 00:19:08,705 --> 00:19:12,190 because I hated being treated like a girl and I had no idea why. 298 00:19:13,207 --> 00:19:14,881 Courtney: You were angry a lot. 299 00:19:14,881 --> 00:19:17,619 I had you as a student and you were often very angry. 300 00:19:18,097 --> 00:19:20,101 Tobias M.: By the time you got there, yes, I was. 301 00:19:21,631 --> 00:19:23,780 That was related to a few different things. 302 00:19:25,495 --> 00:19:34,122 But I think the main problem was that there wasn't a whole lot of diversity 303 00:19:34,491 --> 00:19:36,525 apart from individual personality. 304 00:19:36,822 --> 00:19:39,170 So I had no examples. 305 00:19:39,170 --> 00:19:43,994 I had only ever heard of drag queens, which I didn't identify with at all. 306 00:19:44,563 --> 00:19:47,939 I appreciated them for who they were in their craft 307 00:19:47,939 --> 00:19:53,222 but I felt no connection, so it was no hint to how I felt inside. 308 00:19:54,438 --> 00:19:59,280 I remember when I was 13 or 14, I looked in the mirror 309 00:19:59,286 --> 00:20:02,156 and I asked myself if I should have been born a boy. 310 00:20:07,606 --> 00:20:10,013 That was the only time I'd ever spoken it loud, 311 00:20:10,462 --> 00:20:12,574 and I immediately went 312 00:20:12,591 --> 00:20:16,091 "I am not in the right place to explore that particular line of thought. 313 00:20:16,091 --> 00:20:19,351 I have no knowledge of it, no real understanding," 314 00:20:19,351 --> 00:20:21,301 and so I kind of just pushed it down. 315 00:20:22,150 --> 00:20:28,148 And it wasn't until they told me what a cisgender person felt like, 316 00:20:28,148 --> 00:20:32,946 and cisgender being someone who feels like the gender they were born into ... 317 00:20:33,086 --> 00:20:38,612 when someone explained what that was, I was like, "Oh, that's not me." 318 00:20:39,709 --> 00:20:45,604 And so, that started my more in-depth investigation 319 00:20:45,604 --> 00:20:47,986 and discovery of what I was going through. 320 00:20:49,396 --> 00:20:53,313 Courtney: When you communicated that to your family on North Haven, 321 00:20:53,313 --> 00:20:54,964 did they have a reference point? 322 00:20:55,575 --> 00:20:57,420 Tobias M.: Absolutely none whatsoever. 323 00:20:57,981 --> 00:21:02,358 My parents are very loving and did the very best to be open minded 324 00:21:02,358 --> 00:21:05,621 but it was not something they were ever ready to hear. 325 00:21:05,971 --> 00:21:07,693 They weren't expecting it at all. 326 00:21:08,479 --> 00:21:13,373 And so I came out to my mother by telling her 327 00:21:13,373 --> 00:21:15,342 I wanted breast reduction surgery. 328 00:21:15,690 --> 00:21:17,599 And I had a very large chest, I was double D. 329 00:21:18,376 --> 00:21:25,537 And she being the second gen feminist, thought wonderful, awesome for your health 330 00:21:25,537 --> 00:21:28,823 and for not wanting to deal with big boobs. 331 00:21:28,823 --> 00:21:32,972 And I said okay, well, I kind of want them reduced all the way. 332 00:21:33,497 --> 00:21:35,294 And so she said, "Well, what does that mean?" 333 00:21:35,294 --> 00:21:38,847 And I said, "Mom, I'm transgender. I'm a male at heart. 334 00:21:39,042 --> 00:21:41,486 I want to get rid of my boobs. I want to live as a boy." 335 00:21:41,838 --> 00:21:45,713 And I guess that night she did a lot of research. 336 00:21:46,474 --> 00:21:48,278 Courtney: You were in your 20s then? 337 00:21:48,308 --> 00:21:51,984 Tobias M.: Yes, I had just turned 21 and I was -- 338 00:21:53,266 --> 00:21:56,854 I kind of grew my support network at school 339 00:21:56,860 --> 00:21:59,893 because there were a lot of people who were involved in the community 340 00:21:59,893 --> 00:22:04,498 and understood what it could be like to come to terms with something 341 00:22:04,498 --> 00:22:07,098 as obviously life-altering as that. 342 00:22:07,528 --> 00:22:12,361 So I really built up a base of support there 343 00:22:12,361 --> 00:22:15,103 and then I came out to my mom and dad. 344 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,079 Courtney: So then, as you transitioned, 345 00:22:19,079 --> 00:22:21,432 you came back to the island during that process. 346 00:22:21,882 --> 00:22:23,714 How was that? What was that like? 347 00:22:24,370 --> 00:22:25,751 Tobias M.: It was funny. 348 00:22:25,751 --> 00:22:29,218 I didn't tell anybody that I was transitioning. 349 00:22:29,218 --> 00:22:30,746 I told no one from North Haven. 350 00:22:30,746 --> 00:22:37,766 I had a few friends on Facebook, but mostly I kind of expected 351 00:22:37,766 --> 00:22:41,697 just to do this return and have everyone go “wait, who are you?” 352 00:22:42,807 --> 00:22:47,546 I had gotten top surgery in early 2011, 353 00:22:48,033 --> 00:22:52,180 and when I went back I had started taking testosterone 354 00:22:52,186 --> 00:22:55,758 and it had started to kick in, you know, a few changes here and there. 355 00:22:56,634 --> 00:22:59,995 But apparently, I sent a letter to my mom 356 00:22:59,995 --> 00:23:04,758 and I put Tobias McKenzie in the "from" column. 357 00:23:05,390 --> 00:23:09,403 And she was asked by a few people who saw the envelope 358 00:23:09,408 --> 00:23:10,989 who Tobias McKenzie was. 359 00:23:11,321 --> 00:23:12,696 I suppose the idea was 360 00:23:12,696 --> 00:23:15,256 there was a great scandal of the long lost sibling. 361 00:23:16,704 --> 00:23:18,684 And she was very open about it. 362 00:23:18,684 --> 00:23:19,986 She was always very supportive. 363 00:23:20,588 --> 00:23:23,916 And she told them, "No, you formerly knew her." 364 00:23:25,216 --> 00:23:31,028 And then -- so when I came out, the weirdest thing I remember was 365 00:23:31,028 --> 00:23:34,628 I came out and I expected it to be this huge surprise. 366 00:23:34,628 --> 00:23:36,429 I expected people not to know, 367 00:23:36,767 --> 00:23:39,524 not to have any idea who I was or what had happened. 368 00:23:41,491 --> 00:23:46,111 And instead, everybody, everybody knew who I was. 369 00:23:46,111 --> 00:23:54,212 Everybody knew my then chosen now legal name, Tobias. 370 00:23:54,212 --> 00:23:57,871 And the hilarious thing was, 371 00:23:57,871 --> 00:24:01,259 no one called me by my old name or by female pronouns 372 00:24:01,259 --> 00:24:04,241 and this is when my parents couldn't keep track of it. 373 00:24:04,265 --> 00:24:07,406 They were using my old name, they were using female pronouns. 374 00:24:08,431 --> 00:24:10,824 And that was really weird to deal with at home 375 00:24:10,824 --> 00:24:13,665 and then walk out in public and everyone was getting it right 376 00:24:14,295 --> 00:24:16,123 It was just ... it was really funny. 377 00:24:16,123 --> 00:24:17,492 Courtney: Yeah. 378 00:24:17,492 --> 00:24:23,422 So it's been okay coming back to this place where you felt like 379 00:24:23,422 --> 00:24:24,867 you had no reference points 380 00:24:24,867 --> 00:24:27,694 and now you are maybe a reference point for somebody? 381 00:24:28,034 --> 00:24:29,353 Tobias M.: Oh, absolutely. 382 00:24:30,319 --> 00:24:38,255 It's strange but I feel like for the most part, people decided: 383 00:24:39,227 --> 00:24:42,188 "Oh, so that's why you were a bit different." 384 00:24:48,016 --> 00:24:50,779 Courtney: Tobias' point about that lack of a community, 385 00:24:51,038 --> 00:24:53,265 a reference point on North Haven 386 00:24:53,265 --> 00:24:55,627 was something each person we spoke with mentioned. 387 00:24:55,836 --> 00:25:00,128 Sue Campbell: Out as I want to be is a nonprofit based in Rockland, Maine. 388 00:25:00,128 --> 00:25:01,751 Courtney: I spoke with Sue Campbell -- 389 00:25:01,751 --> 00:25:03,237 Sue Campbell: My name is Sue Campbell 390 00:25:03,237 --> 00:25:05,463 Courtney: -- whose organization now called OUT Maine 391 00:25:05,816 --> 00:25:07,360 seeks to provide that community 392 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:10,440 for the isolated QuiltBag youth of mid-coast Maine. 393 00:25:14,733 --> 00:25:19,447 Sue C.: I think growing up LGBTQ anywhere is a challenge. 394 00:25:19,447 --> 00:25:22,594 I think when you add in the rural factor, 395 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,656 it adds a whole n’other layer. 396 00:25:24,981 --> 00:25:31,689 Society sets certain norms and in a small rural environment, 397 00:25:31,689 --> 00:25:36,125 those norms are probably even more stringent 398 00:25:36,572 --> 00:25:41,207 and people don't understand diversity because they've never seen diversity. 399 00:25:45,042 --> 00:25:49,855 There are percentages somewhere in the neighborhood of about 5% 400 00:25:50,532 --> 00:25:52,667 are the numbers that are reported here in Maine. 401 00:25:52,667 --> 00:25:54,425 We know that those are low. 402 00:25:54,842 --> 00:25:58,361 So if you look at your population, you can assume that 403 00:25:58,361 --> 00:26:03,987 about 5% of those folks are going to be LGBTQ in some way, shape, or form. 404 00:26:04,827 --> 00:26:07,470 When I first started doing this work about a year ago, 405 00:26:07,972 --> 00:26:13,089 we had three out of the nine mainland high schools with GSTAs, we now have -- 406 00:26:13,089 --> 00:26:16,197 Courtney: GSTA stands for Gay/Straight/Transgender Alliance. 407 00:26:16,525 --> 00:26:20,016 Groups like this provide community support and advocacy for students 408 00:26:20,016 --> 00:26:23,020 who identify within the spectrum or want to be allies. 409 00:26:23,020 --> 00:26:27,799 North Haven Community School has had a very small GSTA since 2015. 410 00:26:28,282 --> 00:26:32,520 Sue C.: -- you know,lesbian or gay or, we're seeing a lot more of the students 411 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,502 that are coming out as transgender as well. 412 00:26:34,893 --> 00:26:38,679 I think at a lot of these small communities you see people who -- 413 00:26:39,631 --> 00:26:43,685 they know people as individuals so they accept them very easily. 414 00:26:43,685 --> 00:26:49,867 But when you suddenly are thinking of things outside of that, 415 00:26:50,107 --> 00:26:52,628 it is when it becomes much more challenging. 416 00:27:00,211 --> 00:27:02,271 Courtney: What are some of the risk factors 417 00:27:02,271 --> 00:27:05,150 that affect LTBTQ youth in a rural area? 418 00:27:05,515 --> 00:27:08,403 Sue C.: Well, isolation is one of the biggest ones. 419 00:27:09,262 --> 00:27:15,035 We see a lot of youth that are not accepted by their families, 420 00:27:15,035 --> 00:27:16,863 they're not accepted by their communities, 421 00:27:16,863 --> 00:27:18,570 so they become homeless. 422 00:27:19,302 --> 00:27:22,855 Very quickly, the homeless population here is very high. 423 00:27:22,855 --> 00:27:27,719 They have a much higher suicide ideation rates than their peers. 424 00:27:28,125 --> 00:27:33,161 And so it is a very tough population to work with 425 00:27:33,161 --> 00:27:38,299 because they are of much higher risk of harming themselves, or being homeless, 426 00:27:38,299 --> 00:27:40,796 and not getting the necessary supports. 427 00:27:41,607 --> 00:27:44,830 Courtney: What kind of resources do you think would be most helpful 428 00:27:44,830 --> 00:27:46,544 for students on North Haven 429 00:27:46,544 --> 00:27:50,395 who think that they might be on the LGBTQ spectrum 430 00:27:50,395 --> 00:27:51,940 or want to be allies? 431 00:27:52,308 --> 00:27:55,248 Sue C.: I think the biggest thing 432 00:27:55,248 --> 00:28:00,435 that community members here on North Haven or the schools could do 433 00:28:00,439 --> 00:28:06,535 is to allow the students to know that they're open and welcoming and accepting, 434 00:28:06,862 --> 00:28:09,954 and that there are safe people and safe spaces. 435 00:28:10,270 --> 00:28:13,468 If the youth feel that they can't be safe, 436 00:28:13,468 --> 00:28:16,835 then they're not going to be willing to tell anyone 437 00:28:16,835 --> 00:28:21,401 that they may be experiencing feelings, 438 00:28:21,401 --> 00:28:26,625 whether that is feelings of sexual identity or gender identity. 439 00:28:27,195 --> 00:28:31,863 If they don't feel like they can be safe then they're not going to come out. 440 00:28:31,863 --> 00:28:35,693 So, creating inclusive and welcoming communities 441 00:28:35,693 --> 00:28:38,745 is probably the biggest thing that you can do. 442 00:28:39,231 --> 00:28:41,645 If you have students that do come forward, 443 00:28:41,645 --> 00:28:45,109 then it's providing the appropriate supports to them, 444 00:28:45,557 --> 00:28:49,719 but always leaning to the open and understanding 445 00:28:49,719 --> 00:28:52,300 of wherever it is that they are at the time. 446 00:28:52,904 --> 00:28:54,687 Courtney: What do you think that 447 00:28:54,687 --> 00:28:58,824 LGBTQ adults in a community like this can offer to the youth? 448 00:28:59,209 --> 00:29:00,925 Sue C.: They can be role models. 449 00:29:01,427 --> 00:29:04,509 If you can be open about who you are 450 00:29:04,509 --> 00:29:09,338 and present a good, strong role model for students, 451 00:29:09,338 --> 00:29:12,993 regardless of what your experiences might have been, 452 00:29:13,604 --> 00:29:20,513 one would hope that LGBTQ adults would want perhaps the experiences 453 00:29:20,513 --> 00:29:22,423 that youth would have to be different 454 00:29:22,423 --> 00:29:25,146 than what they may have experienced when they were young. 455 00:29:41,231 --> 00:29:44,332 Bill T.: North Haven's population reflects a growing diversity 456 00:29:44,332 --> 00:29:49,024 in religious identity, sexuality, gender identity, and race. 457 00:29:49,565 --> 00:29:51,234 And for the most part, 458 00:29:51,234 --> 00:29:54,576 while people within those groups might feel a little isolated, 459 00:29:54,813 --> 00:29:57,056 their presence is welcomed and embraced. 460 00:29:58,893 --> 00:30:02,199 But in 2015, Courtney and I went to Brooklyn, New York 461 00:30:02,199 --> 00:30:05,462 to speak with someone who had a very different experience on North Haven 462 00:30:05,462 --> 00:30:06,947 several decades ago. 463 00:30:07,296 --> 00:30:09,389 Pete Beveridge: Pete Beveridge, age, I'm 85. 464 00:30:10,553 --> 00:30:12,977 Bill T.: Pete Beveridge is part of a huge North Haven clan 465 00:30:12,977 --> 00:30:16,109 with members in the summer community and year-round community. 466 00:30:16,597 --> 00:30:20,055 Historically, the family spent summers on North Haven 467 00:30:20,055 --> 00:30:22,162 in their compound called The Colony, 468 00:30:22,537 --> 00:30:24,457 which is just down the road from where I live. 469 00:30:25,187 --> 00:30:29,161 Pete wrote about his family's history in a recent book also called The Colony, 470 00:30:29,446 --> 00:30:32,285 which he said he wrote as a way of healing a rift in his family 471 00:30:32,285 --> 00:30:35,334 described in his first book, Domestic Diversity. 472 00:30:36,228 --> 00:30:39,423 He told us his story as we sat in his Brooklyn apartment. 473 00:30:39,772 --> 00:30:42,307 Pete B.: -- a good friend, Peter Cooper, he invited me 474 00:30:42,307 --> 00:30:44,777 to a party being given up in Harlem 475 00:30:46,467 --> 00:30:50,900 at the home of my future wife, Hortense, 476 00:30:50,900 --> 00:30:56,346 or Tee as we called her, was an African-American 477 00:30:56,346 --> 00:31:00,411 in the sense that Barack Obama is. 478 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:09,065 She had a father who was born in Africa, in Liberia. 479 00:31:10,324 --> 00:31:18,368 Her mother was an Afro- American from Virginia. 480 00:31:18,862 --> 00:31:20,101 Courtney: What year was that? 481 00:31:20,412 --> 00:31:22,743 Pete Beveridge:'52, '53. 482 00:31:28,271 --> 00:31:30,149 Bill T.: So, let's back up a little bit. 483 00:31:30,737 --> 00:31:33,577 Pete talks about meeting, falling in love with 484 00:31:33,592 --> 00:31:39,632 and eventually marrying Tee, an African-American woman in 1952. 485 00:31:40,188 --> 00:31:42,804 Pete's story before and after this point 486 00:31:43,277 --> 00:31:44,696 is pretty fascinating. 487 00:31:45,340 --> 00:31:48,705 Pete B.: Well, my political awakening, if you would call it such, 488 00:31:48,705 --> 00:31:51,489 has actually started with my senior year in high school 489 00:31:51,993 --> 00:31:55,507 when I became involved in the progressive party, 490 00:31:55,507 --> 00:32:01,668 which is a third party that was started by Henry Wallace at that time. 491 00:32:02,069 --> 00:32:05,756 He ran against Truman in 1948. 492 00:32:06,681 --> 00:32:07,936 When I went to college, 493 00:32:07,936 --> 00:32:11,601 I became the president of the Young Progressives at Harvard. 494 00:32:12,211 --> 00:32:18,219 So my politics, my left-wing politics when I was at school 495 00:32:19,802 --> 00:32:22,734 didn't sit too well with my family, 496 00:32:23,035 --> 00:32:30,420 but for the most part, we just agreed not to talk politics 497 00:32:30,420 --> 00:32:31,811 when we were together. 498 00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:39,119 It didn't really affect my relationship at that time. 499 00:32:39,634 --> 00:32:40,951 Bill T.: Pete goes on to describe 500 00:32:40,951 --> 00:32:44,082 one of his first true loves, a Jewish girl named Dorothy. 501 00:32:45,164 --> 00:32:46,954 He mentions the amount of anti-Semitism 502 00:32:46,954 --> 00:32:49,236 that existed at the time, not just politically 503 00:32:49,603 --> 00:32:51,310 but within his own family as well. 504 00:32:51,695 --> 00:32:56,855 Pete B.: I had to stay up until I was maybe 16 or 17. 505 00:32:57,481 --> 00:33:03,317 I really wasn't aware of the fact that they were "different" from me. 506 00:33:04,939 --> 00:33:06,567 They were just myclassmates. 507 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:17,064 But it was actually several years later that my mother wrote me a letter 508 00:33:18,581 --> 00:33:22,115 explaining, just after I broke up with Dorothy, 509 00:33:22,565 --> 00:33:24,427 explaining how relieved she was. 510 00:33:26,981 --> 00:33:33,368 I'm not sure exactly how the quote went, what it was. 511 00:33:33,701 --> 00:33:36,304 And I don't think that I am anti-Semitic 512 00:33:36,304 --> 00:33:45,077 because it's not that Dorothy had the characteristics of Jewish people 513 00:33:45,325 --> 00:33:46,665 that we didn't like her. 514 00:33:46,952 --> 00:33:48,668 It was because I never felt 515 00:33:48,668 --> 00:33:52,408 that she was completely open and forthcoming with me. 516 00:33:53,830 --> 00:33:56,551 Bill T.: Although the relationship didn't last very long with Dorothy, 517 00:33:57,083 --> 00:33:59,779 it drove a surprising wedge between Pete and his family, 518 00:34:00,201 --> 00:34:03,316 and that wedge would be driven further by subsequent events. 519 00:34:03,710 --> 00:34:08,246 Pete B: I had joined the Communist Party when I was at Harvard, 520 00:34:08,554 --> 00:34:16,600 and upon graduating, I decided to continue my education 521 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,843 at Columbia where I went the following year to get an MA. 522 00:34:21,938 --> 00:34:28,179 And I made that decision mainly because the Korean war was going on at that time, 523 00:34:28,179 --> 00:34:29,319 and I was draft bait, 524 00:34:29,319 --> 00:34:32,995 and if I had left school I would have been drafted. 525 00:34:37,518 --> 00:34:39,717 Courtney: You and Tee began dating 526 00:34:40,205 --> 00:34:43,338 and when did you introduce her to your family? 527 00:34:44,153 --> 00:34:47,930 Pete B.: She had an apartment on 125th Street, 528 00:34:47,930 --> 00:34:50,943 which she shared with another couple. 529 00:34:51,818 --> 00:35:03,027 By the end of the semester at Columbia, I had moved in with her. 530 00:35:05,792 --> 00:35:08,723 That was the spring of '53. 531 00:35:09,718 --> 00:35:15,404 And our period of courtship, if you will, coincided with the period 532 00:35:15,404 --> 00:35:22,375 when Ethel and Julius Rosenberg were being tried and convicted 533 00:35:22,375 --> 00:35:24,071 and eventually executed. 534 00:35:24,442 --> 00:35:29,240 And that was a very traumatic point for people in the party 535 00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:30,867 and in the left wing at that time, 536 00:35:30,867 --> 00:35:34,726 because it was sort of a feeling that if this could happen to them, 537 00:35:34,726 --> 00:35:36,075 it could happen to us. 538 00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:41,857 So Tee and I spent a lot of weekends traveling down to Washington 539 00:35:41,857 --> 00:35:43,234 to picket the White House 540 00:35:43,882 --> 00:35:47,575 and demonstrate to save the Rosenbergs. 541 00:35:48,592 --> 00:35:57,042 On several of those occasions, I stayed with my parents 542 00:35:57,042 --> 00:35:59,247 who were living in Alexandria at the time, 543 00:35:59,952 --> 00:36:09,522 and brought Tee out to introduce her to them. 544 00:36:10,858 --> 00:36:14,629 A year or two later when I married Tee, 545 00:36:14,629 --> 00:36:16,827 my mother said to me: 546 00:36:17,213 --> 00:36:19,765 "Well, you know, the first time you brought Tee out here, 547 00:36:19,765 --> 00:36:21,506 I knew what was going to happen." 548 00:36:22,101 --> 00:36:30,201 My father and mother were conflicted in ... during their 549 00:36:32,567 --> 00:36:38,683 or I should say liberal inclinations to accept my relationship 550 00:36:39,279 --> 00:36:41,221 and an extreme reaction 551 00:36:41,221 --> 00:36:48,704 on the part of my father's siblings, my aunts, and uncles. 552 00:36:56,443 --> 00:37:02,265 When Tee and I decided to get married in 1953, 553 00:37:03,571 --> 00:37:05,271 we told my parents 554 00:37:05,653 --> 00:37:10,034 and sent out notice to my uncles and aunts. 555 00:37:10,034 --> 00:37:15,963 And we started receiving letters from my relatives 556 00:37:15,963 --> 00:37:21,534 who never wrote to me before explaining why I shouldn't marry Tee. 557 00:37:33,706 --> 00:37:37,850 My uncle Arnold, my father's brother, who was a business man 558 00:37:38,388 --> 00:37:41,767 and had more money than the rest of the family 559 00:37:42,864 --> 00:37:50,848 was paying the taxes on the property that the family owned. 560 00:37:52,231 --> 00:37:57,927 And he threatened that if I brought Tee to The Colony, 561 00:37:58,577 --> 00:38:04,474 he would pull out and stop, withdraw his financial support. 562 00:38:06,289 --> 00:38:10,136 This was pretty important at that time. 563 00:38:11,681 --> 00:38:19,682 So I decided not to push the confrontation 564 00:38:20,742 --> 00:38:25,857 and stay away from The Colony with Tee. 565 00:38:32,515 --> 00:38:36,696 After I married Tee in 1953, 566 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:43,572 there was a period of about 20 years when I didn't go back to North Haven. 567 00:38:43,580 --> 00:38:50,187 I had very little relationship with my cousins or my aunts and uncles. 568 00:38:54,130 --> 00:39:02,162 As a result, there is a big gap in my family relationships. 569 00:39:02,954 --> 00:39:04,571 There's a whole period of time 570 00:39:05,102 --> 00:39:11,488 when I didn't know or didn't relate to my family. 571 00:39:12,414 --> 00:39:18,128 This going on top of my childhood 572 00:39:18,130 --> 00:39:23,610 where it was a very large and closely knit family, 573 00:39:23,610 --> 00:39:30,627 it was very hurtful and made me very sorrowful 574 00:39:31,794 --> 00:39:34,326 because I loved North Haven and I loved my family. 575 00:39:42,694 --> 00:39:44,649 Bill T.: It wasn't until the 1970s 576 00:39:44,649 --> 00:39:48,120 that Pete was able to return to North Haven and The Colony with Tee. 577 00:39:48,730 --> 00:39:50,645 But in the 1980s they separated. 578 00:39:51,411 --> 00:39:54,016 Pete continues to visit the island to this day 579 00:39:54,602 --> 00:39:57,185 and we've enjoyed some nice visits with him and his family. 580 00:39:58,978 --> 00:40:02,777 Any community large or small benefits from all kinds of diversity. 581 00:40:03,283 --> 00:40:04,758 Here's Sue Campbell again. 582 00:40:05,109 --> 00:40:07,644 Sue C.: Oh, it adds all sorts of really interesting things. 583 00:40:07,644 --> 00:40:11,078 People get to experience things that are very different 584 00:40:11,078 --> 00:40:14,021 than what they grew up with or what they know, 585 00:40:14,027 --> 00:40:16,291 and it broadens their horizons 586 00:40:16,291 --> 00:40:20,246 and really opens their eyes to other things 587 00:40:20,246 --> 00:40:23,178 that are different in other places. 588 00:40:27,882 --> 00:40:30,519 Bill T.: Special thanks to Avery Waterman, Harold Cooper, 589 00:40:30,519 --> 00:40:34,458 John Emerson, Barney Hallowell, Janice Jones, Jake Greenlaw, 590 00:40:34,458 --> 00:40:37,348 Eva Hopkins, Ashlynn Ames, Shyanne Waterman, 591 00:40:37,348 --> 00:40:40,233 Nan Lee and Emily Greenlaw at the Historical Society, 592 00:40:40,479 --> 00:40:44,597 Jacqueline Curtis, Chis Emerson, Stacy Beverage, Stephanie Brown, 593 00:40:44,602 --> 00:40:48,335 Tobias McKenzie, Sue Campbell, and of course Pete Beveridge. 594 00:40:54,804 --> 00:40:58,013 Both Pete's books, Domestic Diversity and The Colony 595 00:40:58,013 --> 00:41:01,996 can be purchased at northhavenmainehistoricalsociety.org. 596 00:41:06,253 --> 00:41:09,506 12 KNOTS is written and produced right here on the island of North Haven 597 00:41:09,525 --> 00:41:11,597 by me and my wife Courtney Naliboff. 598 00:41:12,743 --> 00:41:15,536 Music is composed and performed by yours truly. 599 00:41:16,357 --> 00:41:17,311 Thanks for listening. 600 00:41:18,042 --> 00:41:23,509 Transcript used in the subtitles was made possible by a Grant from CCACaptioning.org