[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.96,0:00:04.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[dramatic music]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:05.08,0:00:07.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Deep beneath the West Australian outback
Dialogue: 0,0:00:07.50,0:00:10.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lies the germ of an idea.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:10.80,0:00:13.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A dream about \Nmaking the world a safer place
Dialogue: 0,0:00:13.72,0:00:16.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's gone beyond just the dreaming.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:16.82,0:00:21.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(man) "We have a very specific goal,\Ndispose of nuclear wastes,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:21.74,0:00:24.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pull out the nuclear weapons\Nand get them out of the way."
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.21,0:00:31.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Jim Voss envisages a catacomb\N500 metres beneath his feet
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.73,0:00:33.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that would keep safe forever
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.82,0:00:37.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of the most toxic poisons\Nknown to humankind.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:37.55,0:00:39.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Voss) "Australia has the opportunity
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.47,0:00:41.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to use its democratic forces
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.65,0:00:44.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to say this is something\Nwe should be doing for the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:44.84,0:00:46.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[alarm blaring]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:46.13,0:00:49.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For half a century,\Nthe problem of nuclear waste disposal
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.58,0:00:53.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has dogged the world,\Nand one company called Pangea,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:53.46,0:00:57.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,backed by big money and influence,\Nwants to bury it in Australia.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.42,0:01:01.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You'll find a great deal \Nof enthusiasm in the United States,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:01.20,0:01:03.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I suspect around the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.81,0:01:07.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They have backing from incredible people\Nwithin government and industry.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.18,0:01:10.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(ad) {\i1}To make the world a safer place\Nfor the people we love...{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:01:10.72,0:01:15.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Tonight, Four Corners\Ngoes inside the company called Pangea.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:16.29,0:01:19.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We examine a scheme\Nthat's provoked accusations of secrecy
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.75,0:01:21.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and back-door influence peddling,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.36,0:01:24.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a scheme that forces Australia
Dialogue: 0,0:01:24.58,0:01:27.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to confront its role\Nin the nuclear world.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:27.62,0:01:31.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(ad) {\i1}Australia will make\Nour world a safer place{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:01:32.58,0:01:35.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're not interested in nuclear power
Dialogue: 0,0:01:35.03,0:01:39.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we're not interested in being\Nthe world's nuclear waste dump.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.48,0:01:46.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,♪ (music) ♪
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.00,0:01:50.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Voss) We're just headed out\Nhere into the desert.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:52.53,0:01:54.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(man) What you're looking for, \Nof course
Dialogue: 0,0:01:54.46,0:01:57.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the most remote areas \Nyou can find, right?"
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.61,0:01:59.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Voss) Well, in part.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:59.96,0:02:04.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The geology is far more important \Nthan the remoteness.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.36,0:02:08.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pangea's Jim Voss \Nand scientist Charles McCombie
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.80,0:02:10.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,took Four Corners on the long trip \N
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.90,0:02:15.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from Perth, 340 kilometres\Nnorth east of Kalgoorlie,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:15.60,0:02:18.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the edge of the Great Victoria Desert.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:19.09,0:02:22.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(McCombie) The flatness, even more \Nimportant than how it looks on the surface
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.78,0:02:25.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you look out at the horizon \Nit's all very flat.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.18,0:02:29.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is one of the flattest areas\Nin the world and that's a real key issue
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.10,0:02:31.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the– what we call a high isolation site
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.96,0:02:34.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(helicopter blades whirring)
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.38,0:02:38.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Latitude 28 south, longitude 123 east.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:38.83,0:02:42.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(whirring continues)
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.91,0:02:45.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Out in this area \Nthe size of Western Europe
Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.70,0:02:48.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lies a patch of ground \N20 kilometres square
Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.60,0:02:52.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they believe could house \Na repository for up to 20 percent
Dialogue: 0,0:02:52.75,0:02:55.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the world's nuclear waste.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:57.15,0:03:02.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Out here you find pangea rock -- \Nvery old, very stable --
Dialogue: 0,0:03:02.12,0:03:05.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the geology from which \Nthe company gets its name.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:06.07,0:03:09.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(McCombie) And in the basin area\Nand where we're on the edge now,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.18,0:03:13.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's 300 to 800 million years \Nof quiet build-up of sediments.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:14.72,0:03:18.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is one of the most \Nstable geological areas
Dialogue: 0,0:03:18.03,0:03:20.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you'll find in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:20.62,0:03:24.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it's not just science. \NPolitics are just as crucial
Dialogue: 0,0:03:24.58,0:03:27.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in dealing with radioactive waste \Nand nuclear disarmament
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.84,0:03:31.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's what makes Australia \Nmore attractive than Argentina,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.60,0:03:35.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Namibia, and China, \Nwhere pangea rock is also found.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.57,0:03:39.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Voss) Well, it's the political stability\Nthat we're concerned about.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.22,0:03:42.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Australia's tradition \Nin democratic principles,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:42.95,0:03:47.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Australia's environmental activism \Nis vital to us. Australia's role
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.35,0:03:51.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the international community \Nfor disarmament for all sorts of weapons
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.55,0:03:57.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nuclear, land mines, chemical weapons,\Nvery important facets to us for Australia
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.09,0:04:02.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Behind Pangea stand \Nthree international organisations.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:03.99,0:04:08.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The huge British government-owned \Nnuclear conglomerate, BNFL
Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.55,0:04:12.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,British Nuclear Fuels Limited, \Nwhich owns 80 percent
Dialogue: 0,0:04:13.80,0:04:16.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a Canadian company \Ncalled Golder Associates
Dialogue: 0,0:04:16.84,0:04:19.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,world experts in toxic waste management
Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.71,0:04:24.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Nagra, a Swiss organisation \Nresponsible for finding
Dialogue: 0,0:04:24.76,0:04:28.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a nuclear waste dump\Nfor Switzerland's nuclear industry.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.24,0:04:33.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(advertisement) {\i1}The simple fact \Nis that more than 30 countries{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:04:33.20,0:04:35.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}use nuclear power.{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.80,0:04:39.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pangea originally planned \Nto launch its scheme on Australians
Dialogue: 0,0:04:39.20,0:04:44.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,last month, with a 9 million dollar\Nwar chest for advertising and promoting
Dialogue: 0,0:04:44.08,0:04:47.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a scheme it knew would meet \Nan incredulous public
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.53,0:04:49.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and skeptical politicians.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.19,0:04:55.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those plans fell apart in December\Nlast year, when the British arm
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.26,0:04:57.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Friends Of The Earth \Ngot hold of the video
Dialogue: 0,0:04:57.68,0:05:01.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pangea prepared for the launch \Nand sent it to Australia.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:02.74,0:05:05.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Pangea promotional video) {\i1}Above all, \NPangea will provide the world{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.69,0:05:09.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}with a safe solution \Nto the disposal of nuclear materials.{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.37,0:05:13.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(man) Oh, it arrived in \Nan unmarked brown envelope
Dialogue: 0,0:05:13.16,0:05:17.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on my desk, and I had no idea \Nwhere it came from. I felt that this
Dialogue: 0,0:05:17.75,0:05:26.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should not be sprung on Australians in a\Nkind of hole-in-the-wall secret underhand way
Dialogue: 0,0:05:26.23,0:05:31.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they should learn as soon as possible \Nwhat was being planned for them.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:33.29,0:05:34.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Pangea promotional video)\N{\i1}Before any responsible country{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.86,0:05:38.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}would send their waste for disposal, \Nthey must be certain{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:05:38.55,0:05:43.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}not only that the respository is safe, \Nbut also that its safety must be seen{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:05:43.74,0:05:46.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}to be clearly and rigorously regulated.{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.73,0:05:53.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Voss) We were of course, disappointed. \NIt was our intention to roll Pangea out
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.36,0:05:59.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a very public and planned manner,\Nto give everybody an opportunity to debate.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.64,0:06:04.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(woman) "My question is to \NSenator Minchin, Minister for Resources -"
Dialogue: 0,0:06:04.39,0:06:08.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The response to the video was immediate. \NOpponents were appalled
Dialogue: 0,0:06:08.54,0:06:11.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the idea of a nuclear dumping ground.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.82,0:06:15.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(woman) " ... Will he rule out completely \Nany involvement of his government
Dialogue: 0,0:06:15.68,0:06:19.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in setting up an international nuclear \Nwaste repository in Australia?"
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.57,0:06:23.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Federal Government \Nmoved to distance itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.28,0:06:26.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Senator Minchin) "And the Government\Nhas absolutely no intention of accepting
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.82,0:06:29.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the radioactive waste of other countries.\NThe policy is clear - "
Dialogue: 0,0:06:29.68,0:06:33.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the following months, \Nthe Industry and Resources Minister's line
Dialogue: 0,0:06:33.14,0:06:34.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has hardened.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:34.84,0:06:37.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Senator Minchin) "There may be \Nother countries that
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.80,0:06:41.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in far less fortuitous \Neconomic circumstances than Australia
Dialogue: 0,0:06:41.19,0:06:45.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that do decide they want to accept \Ninternational nuclear waste.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.31,0:06:48.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well that's their business, \Nand that may be one way
Dialogue: 0,0:06:48.94,0:06:51.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which those countries \Nwith a waste problem deal with it.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:51.99,0:06:55.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But Australia won't be that nation \Nthat accepts the waste."
Dialogue: 0,0:06:56.78,0:07:01.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But Pangea's plans for the outback \Nare a reminder of Australia's part
Dialogue: 0,0:07:01.44,0:07:04.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the nuclear world:\Nan exporter of uranium,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:04.65,0:07:09.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,part of the American nuclear umbrella \Nand a leading advocate of disarmament.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.11,0:07:14.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What Pangea is doing \Nis putting together a growing network
Dialogue: 0,0:07:14.20,0:07:17.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of international \Nand Australian businessmen,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.02,0:07:21.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,scientists and policy makers who believe \Nthat Australia should also have a role
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.100,0:07:26.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to play in resolving one of the \Nnuclear age's most pressing problems:
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.44,0:07:30.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what to do with the stockpiles \Nof nuclear waste
Dialogue: 0,0:07:30.12,0:07:33.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that have been growing now \Nfor half a century.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.12,0:07:37.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a debate they say \Nthat Australia has to have
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.42,0:07:42.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one that can't be dodged forever,\Nand one upon which Australians themselves
Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.49,0:07:44.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will eventually have to take a stand.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:45.40,0:07:49.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(indistinct lecturing)
Dialogue: 0,0:07:49.36,0:07:53.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Amongst those who believe Australia \Nshould play a role is the president
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.39,0:07:57.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Australian Academy of Science \Nwho's personally backing Pangea
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.67,0:08:00.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and will sit on \Nits scientific review panel.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:00.92,0:08:06.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(professor) "I think it is important \Nthat they engage the Australian public
Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.38,0:08:12.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and engage the Australian public's \Nrepresentatives, namely the politicians
Dialogue: 0,0:08:12.84,0:08:18.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that the politicians get \Nas clear a view as it's possible to get
Dialogue: 0,0:08:18.51,0:08:23.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what the proposal's really about. \NThe existence of nuclear waste
Dialogue: 0,0:08:23.98,0:08:28.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a world problem and Australia \Nin this respect is part of the world
Dialogue: 0,0:08:28.96,0:08:36.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if we can help reduce that danger \Nby putting that particular problem to bed
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.12,0:08:37.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is great."
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.50,0:08:42.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Jenkins) "This industry thinking that \Nit can solve its problems by shifting them
Dialogue: 0,0:08:42.98,0:08:46.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to some remote place, \Nand also onto future generations
Dialogue: 0,0:08:46.17,0:08:50.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that makes one quietly angry."
Dialogue: 0,0:08:50.58,0:09:16.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,♪ (ominous music) ♪
Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.88,0:09:21.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The creeping poison of nuclear waste \Nbegan with the advent of the nuclear age
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.90,0:09:26.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more than half a century ago, \Nbut it took three decades
Dialogue: 0,0:09:26.15,0:09:28.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before governments \Nbegan to take it seriously.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.41,0:09:37.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In 1943, the 2,000 citizens of Hanford \Nand neighbouring Bluff Cliffs
Dialogue: 0,0:09:37.94,0:09:43.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the northwest US state of Washington \Ngot 30 days notice to move out
Dialogue: 0,0:09:43.38,0:09:47.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when the top-secret Manhattan Program \Nto build the first atomic bomb
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.34,0:09:48.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,got underway.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:50.47,0:09:51.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They never came back.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.82,0:10:04.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fifty-six years later, what's left behind\Nis abandoned, no longer top secret
Dialogue: 0,0:10:04.78,0:10:06.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but still deadly.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.28,0:10:20.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,1,400 square kilometres\Nof poisoned land, a wilderness
Dialogue: 0,0:10:20.45,0:10:22.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of dumped nuclear waste \Nfrom the reactors
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.99,0:10:25.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that produced plutonium \Nfor bombs and warheads
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.98,0:10:28.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fodder for 30 years of cold war.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:31.75,0:10:36.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(construction machinery)
Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.80,0:10:39.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The detritus lies scattered and buried.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.98,0:10:45.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(more machinery)
Dialogue: 0,0:10:45.34,0:10:49.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A clean-up's underway, \Nbut it'll take 50 years
Dialogue: 0,0:10:49.43,0:10:54.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at a cost of five and a half \Nmillion dollars every single day.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:58.49,0:11:02.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,David Pentz first came to Hanford \Nin the '80s at the behest
Dialogue: 0,0:11:02.24,0:11:03.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the American government.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:04.85,0:11:07.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A specialist in waste disposal,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.13,0:11:11.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pentz spent three years investigating \Nwhether the contaminated site
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.38,0:11:16.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,might become the world's first permanent \Ndump for highly radioactive waste.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:18.11,0:11:20.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It didn't work,\Nbecause the geology
Dialogue: 0,0:11:20.94,0:11:24.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,proved too complex, \Nand it's not yet worked
Dialogue: 0,0:11:24.28,0:11:26.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anywhere else in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:26.74,0:11:30.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Pentz) "I think total costs, probably \Nwe've spent in the world today,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:30.91,0:11:42.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is certainly in excess of $20 billion,\Nand we obviously don't have a repository
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.41,0:11:45.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,licenced repository,\Nanywhere in the world."
Dialogue: 0,0:11:46.31,0:11:50.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pentz went home to Seattle, \Nbut the idea of a disposal site
Dialogue: 0,0:11:50.94,0:11:53.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,deep underground did not go away.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:53.84,0:11:56.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He nagged at the problem \Nand it nagged at him.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:59.28,0:12:03.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pentz was chairman of Golder Associates,\Nthe industrial waste experts
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.45,0:12:09.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and under its umbrella in March 1997, \Nhe set up Pangea Resources Limited.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:10.06,0:12:16.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Pentz) "We see ourselves as an ambassador\Nof a problem, a world problem,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:16.40,0:12:22.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we think Australia should \Nat least talk about it and consider it
Dialogue: 0,0:12:24.63,0:12:30.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a rational sense \Nbecause of, that we at least,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:30.10,0:12:33.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think you will find \Nothers in the world
Dialogue: 0,0:12:33.42,0:12:38.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,believe that Australia \Nhas an incredible opportunity
Dialogue: 0,0:12:38.59,0:12:41.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to help the world, \Nand if you want to call that
Dialogue: 0,0:12:41.63,0:12:44.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as being good neighbourly, so be it.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:44.17,0:12:49.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To me it's, uh, good neighbourly \Ndoesn't put enough dimension
Dialogue: 0,0:12:49.43,0:12:52.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the challenge that the world faces.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:56.52,0:12:59.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,From modest offices \Nin the high-tech part of Seattle
Dialogue: 0,0:12:59.17,0:13:02.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is home to Microsoft, \NPentz is working to ensure
Dialogue: 0,0:13:02.41,0:13:04.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the idea doesn't die.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.54,0:13:08.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(woman) "Mr. Pentz, I have Australia\Nand the UK on the line
Dialogue: 0,0:13:08.34,0:13:10.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- for the conference call."\N- "Thank you very much."
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.83,0:13:14.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Pentz) "I could say our tactics \Nare absolutely a disaster, unequivocally.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:14.35,0:13:19.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would say however our tactics \Nwere not of our own making, right?"
Dialogue: 0,0:13:19.26,0:13:22.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) "So in retrospect, the secrecy \Nwith which you've cloaked your proposal
Dialogue: 0,0:13:22.82,0:13:24.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has been a mistake?"
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.29,0:13:28.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Yes I think that, and some people, \Nand I have questioned myself
Dialogue: 0,0:13:28.84,0:13:30.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether that was right."
Dialogue: 0,0:13:30.41,0:13:33.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) "Because one of the great \Ncriticisms of the whole nuclear industry
Dialogue: 0,0:13:33.37,0:13:36.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all the, in it's history,\Nhas always been its secrecy, hasn't it?"
Dialogue: 0,0:13:36.44,0:13:41.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Absolutely, and that's tied \Nboth sides of the nuclear industry.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:41.33,0:13:45.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Obviously on the weapons side \Nand even on the commercial side.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.98,0:13:47.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I couldn't agree with you more."
Dialogue: 0,0:13:47.98,0:13:51.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- (man) "Hello, David."\N- (Pentz) "Well hi, Jim! Welcome aboard!"
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.26,0:13:57.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pentz still runs about 60 people\Naround the world, some half of them
Dialogue: 0,0:13:57.58,0:14:02.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,contracted on a part-time basis. \NAmongst them, Ralph Stoll
Dialogue: 0,0:14:02.29,0:14:04.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a former US nuclear submarine commander.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.24,0:14:09.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Stoll) "It looks like, there's a reason\Nto go to Washington next week,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:10.36,0:14:12.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to follow up with some of these ideas."
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.02,0:14:18.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In Australia, Jim Voss is looking \Nfor new ways to open doors for Pangea.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.14,0:14:23.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Voss on phone) "The Pangea papers were\Nright where we wanted them, that is
Dialogue: 0,0:14:23.94,0:14:27.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,presenting where we stand \Nin our feasibility studies."
Dialogue: 0,0:14:27.20,0:14:28.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Pentz) "Yeah."
Dialogue: 0,0:14:28.30,0:14:33.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's no shortage of funds. \NPangea had a $40 million budget this year
Dialogue: 0,0:14:33.47,0:14:38.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but much of it won't now get spent \Nbecause the political heat in Australia
Dialogue: 0,0:14:38.03,0:14:41.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has delayed plans for exploration \Nin Western Australia.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.14,0:14:45.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) "So if the government is saying,\Nno, it's against our policy
Dialogue: 0,0:14:45.70,0:14:48.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,why pursue it?\NWhy not just go away?"
Dialogue: 0,0:14:50.72,0:14:55.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Pentz) "Because the idea \Nof an international repository
Dialogue: 0,0:14:57.86,0:15:01.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the benefits \Nit will bring the world is real.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:02.69,0:15:09.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We think we have begun to see how we\Ncould put the genie back into the bottle
Dialogue: 0,0:15:12.04,0:15:16.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, you know, ideas \Nof this size ...
Dialogue: 0,0:15:20.05,0:15:21.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't go away."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:22.78,0:15:30.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,♪ (music) ♪
Dialogue: 0,0:15:30.58,0:15:35.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,From Seattle, Pentz and Stoll \Nare on the move across the continent.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:36.09,0:15:39.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I have, I think received \Na very good response
Dialogue: 0,0:15:39.48,0:15:43.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both in and outside of the government\Nto the concept that Pangea represents."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:43.96,0:16:05.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,♪ (solemn music) ♪
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.83,0:16:10.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I wonder if these ...\Nkinds will work with Pangea."
Dialogue: 0,0:16:10.73,0:16:14.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the 18 months since \NRalph Stoll's first visit to Washington
Dialogue: 0,0:16:14.95,0:16:19.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pangea's briefed officials \Nin the US State Department, the Pentagon
Dialogue: 0,0:16:19.46,0:16:23.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Department of Energy, \Nand presidential advisers
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.34,0:16:28.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in two powerful arms of American security,\Nthe National Security Council
Dialogue: 0,0:16:28.11,0:16:30.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the National Security Agency.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.46,0:16:37.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And to reach the administration's \Nhighest political levels, Pangea's hired
Dialogue: 0,0:16:37.16,0:16:40.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a big-hitter lobbyist, the man slated
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.31,0:16:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to run Vice President Al Gore's \Npresidential campaign next year.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:44.93,0:16:48.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Pangea's struck a chord \Nthat shifts its focus
Dialogue: 0,0:16:48.00,0:16:49.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from a commercial venture,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:49.71,0:16:52.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to play to America's \Nstrategic preoccupation
Dialogue: 0,0:16:52.85,0:16:56.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with growing stockpiles \Nof nuclear warheads.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:57.03,0:16:59.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"The world has a serious problem \Nwith nuclear waste.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:59.87,0:17:05.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are thousands and thousands \Nof tons of it, and thousands of tons more
Dialogue: 0,0:17:05.31,0:17:11.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,coming on-line each year, so to speak, \Nas well as many thousands of tons
Dialogue: 0,0:17:11.78,0:17:16.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are derivative \Nfrom former nuclear weapons programs,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.08,0:17:22.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and these have to be stored \Nsafely and securely for thousands of years
Dialogue: 0,0:17:22.39,0:17:24.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the world simply doesn't \Nhave a solution to this
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.92,0:17:28.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and as long as this waste \Nis stored in an imperfect fashion
Dialogue: 0,0:17:28.74,0:17:32.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which it is now, virtually everywhere, \Nit represents something of a threat."
Dialogue: 0,0:17:33.20,0:17:36.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Until the end of last year, \NJan Lodal was responsible
Dialogue: 0,0:17:36.30,0:17:38.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for running nuclear policy \Nfor the Pentagon.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:39.30,0:17:43.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I think that the American government \Nis likely to be very attracted
Dialogue: 0,0:17:43.32,0:17:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the possibility of such a site, \Nand it will also see the attractiveness
Dialogue: 0,0:17:49.00,0:17:50.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Australia's location."
Dialogue: 0,0:17:52.71,0:17:58.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At Washington's Georgetown University, \NPangea has another influential ally
Dialogue: 0,0:17:58.33,0:18:02.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in President Clinton's special adviser \Nfor disarmament, who's concerned
Dialogue: 0,0:18:02.55,0:18:06.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about bombs or the raw material \Nfalling into the hands
Dialogue: 0,0:18:06.48,0:18:08.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of rogue states and terrorist groups.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:09.68,0:18:12.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"In the United States, \Nwe are very concerned
Dialogue: 0,0:18:12.04,0:18:15.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what is generally called \Nin the literature the loose nuke problem.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.63,0:18:18.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are working with the Russians \Nin a very cooperative way,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:18.49,0:18:23.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but still there are hundreds of tons, \Nwhen it only takes a few kilograms
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.22,0:18:26.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make a bomb, there are hundreds \Nof tons of this material
Dialogue: 0,0:18:26.34,0:18:30.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,inadequately protected. \NThat's what we wanna take care of too.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:31.36,0:18:34.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,♪ (western music) ♪
Dialogue: 0,0:18:34.42,0:18:40.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,♪ {\i1}On the trail you'll find me lopin',\Nwhile the spaces are wide open{\i0} ♪
Dialogue: 0,0:18:40.22,0:18:45.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,♪ {\i1}in the land of the old AEC, yee-hoo{\i0} ♪
Dialogue: 0,0:18:45.19,0:18:51.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,♪ {\i1}why, the cedar is attractive,\Nand the air is radioactive{\i0} ♪
Dialogue: 0,0:18:51.22,0:18:54.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,♪ {\i1}oh, the Wild West is \Nwhere I want to be{\i0} ♪
Dialogue: 0,0:18:55.96,0:19:01.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,♪ {\i1}'mid the sagebrush and the cactus\NI'll watch the fellas practice{\i0} ♪
Dialogue: 0,0:19:01.58,0:19:06.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,♪ {\i1}droppin' bombs through \Nthe clean desert breeze, ah-ha{\i0} ♪
Dialogue: 0,0:19:06.90,0:19:12.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(bomb explosion)
Dialogue: 0,0:19:14.100,0:19:18.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If nuclear disarmament \Nwas the peace dividend
Dialogue: 0,0:19:18.10,0:19:21.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the end of the Cold War, \Nthen the problem of dealing
Dialogue: 0,0:19:21.22,0:19:25.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with today's unwanted nuclear bombs \Nis the peace headache.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:28.12,0:19:31.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In pursuit of superiority \Nover the Russians,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:31.05,0:19:35.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,America detonated 928 bombs \Nat the Nevada test site,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:35.91,0:19:38.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a hundred of them above ground.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:39.16,0:19:43.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The tests took 40 years to conduct, \Nbut the combined time
Dialogue: 0,0:19:43.98,0:19:48.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for all those explosions \Namounts to a mere 60 seconds
Dialogue: 0,0:19:48.76,0:19:52.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a minute of the most destructive power \Ncreated by humankind.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:53.41,0:20:15.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(explosions, wind, breaking glass, planes)
Dialogue: 0,0:20:18.72,0:20:24.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Cold War legacy is \N100,000 nuclear warheads around the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:25.31,0:20:30.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Disarmament talks call \Nfor a reduction to 4,000 in 10 years.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:31.36,0:20:34.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pangea reckons \Nit can help disarmament
Dialogue: 0,0:20:34.02,0:20:37.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by burying plutonium \Nfrom decommissioned warheads
Dialogue: 0,0:20:37.32,0:20:41.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a claim questioned by critics \Nwho say nothing in the plans
Dialogue: 0,0:20:41.10,0:20:43.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ensure it can never be retrieved.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:44.34,0:20:46.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"They cloak it as \Na nuclear non proliferation
Dialogue: 0,0:20:46.98,0:20:50.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and arms control proposal, \Nbut when you look at the fine print
Dialogue: 0,0:20:50.08,0:20:53.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it really is, at this point in time\Nat least, a bail-out
Dialogue: 0,0:20:53.93,0:20:57.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the nuclear industry and \Nfor the plutonium industry in particular."
Dialogue: 0,0:20:57.61,0:21:01.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"These need not be inconsistent at all.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:01.08,0:21:04.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I think that \Nit is a commercial enterprise
Dialogue: 0,0:21:04.17,0:21:07.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the potential for \Na very positive impact
Dialogue: 0,0:21:07.14,0:21:09.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on international security is very real."
Dialogue: 0,0:21:09.46,0:21:12.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"That's the rhetoric. \NThat's the broad brush
Dialogue: 0,0:21:12.55,0:21:19.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the fine strokes indicate \Nthat this spent fuel
Dialogue: 0,0:21:19.31,0:21:23.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will be put underground \Non a retrievable basis
Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.67,0:21:25.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that countries \Nthat want to get it out, can."
Dialogue: 0,0:21:26.14,0:21:30.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"The fact that there may be \Nretrievability doesn't bother me
Dialogue: 0,0:21:30.10,0:21:33.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,provided, of course,\Nthe retrievability is
Dialogue: 0,0:21:33.17,0:21:36.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something that were very easily \Nmonitored and prevented
Dialogue: 0,0:21:36.15,0:21:38.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if the international community \Nwished to prevent it
Dialogue: 0,0:21:38.75,0:21:40.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if you had \Na remote site in Australia,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:40.76,0:21:42.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think you could assure that."
Dialogue: 0,0:21:50.56,0:21:53.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fifty kilometres from \Nthe Nevada test site
Dialogue: 0,0:21:53.58,0:21:58.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lies Yucca Mountain, \Nand a stark reminder that America
Dialogue: 0,0:21:58.05,0:22:00.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like the rest of the world, \Nhas a growing problem
Dialogue: 0,0:22:00.93,0:22:02.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with commercial waste.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:02.85,0:22:06.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,10,000 tons is created globally each year.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:07.96,0:22:11.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"The alternative is the stuff \Nright now sitting in swimming pools
Dialogue: 0,0:22:11.50,0:22:14.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the basement of power plants \Nin metropolitan areas.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:15.61,0:22:18.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's that going to do \Nto our future generations?
Dialogue: 0,0:22:18.14,0:22:20.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can't make this stuff go away."
Dialogue: 0,0:22:20.39,0:22:26.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like Pangea, Jim Niggemeyer believes \Nthe answer lies beneath his feet.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:26.17,0:22:29.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Niggemeyer) So for me, \Nthis I think is safe for
Dialogue: 0,0:22:29.61,0:22:33.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hundreds of thousands of years. \NI don't see any other alternative
Dialogue: 0,0:22:33.67,0:22:36.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that gets us beyond tens of years.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:38.18,0:22:42.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) Fifteen kilometres of tunnel\Nlie inside Yucca Mountain.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:43.24,0:22:47.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It represents America's \Nand the world's best bet yet
Dialogue: 0,0:22:47.40,0:22:51.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a nuclear waste dump. \NBut it's not a good bet at all.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:51.52,0:22:54.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Niggemeyer) And you'll notice\Nas we go down
Dialogue: 0,0:22:54.65,0:22:58.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you'll see uh, ties of fairly heavy steel\Naround the tunnel.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:58.70,0:23:03.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's to hold up the rock and\Ngive us general support.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:04.41,0:23:09.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) The Yucca Mountain project's \Ncost the US $10 billion so far
Dialogue: 0,0:23:09.61,0:23:13.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it will be at least two years \Nbefore the US government
Dialogue: 0,0:23:13.17,0:23:15.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,decides whether it's safe to go ahead.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:16.61,0:23:20.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The people of Nevada have already \Ndecided: they don't want it.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:21.36,0:23:24.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But they know they're up against \Npowerful nuclear interests.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:25.54,0:23:31.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Reid) They do it in a number of ways. \NOne is through fear and the distribution
Dialogue: 0,0:23:31.58,0:23:34.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of bad information, false information.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:34.63,0:23:37.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What they do is say \Nwe need to get it outta here,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:37.100,0:23:39.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then everybody here'll be safe.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:39.80,0:23:42.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so that's the game they've played,\Nand they've done a good job.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:42.97,0:23:47.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They have done a good job with \Ntheir government relations work
Dialogue: 0,0:23:47.31,0:23:54.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here in Washington, they've got \Nthe best lobbyists money can buy. (laughs)
Dialogue: 0,0:23:56.44,0:23:59.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) If the nuclear industry \Ndoes get its way,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:59.26,0:24:04.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is what an underground \Nnuclear repository would look like.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:04.19,0:24:08.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Kilometres of tunnels containing\Nsteel and concrete canisters,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:08.97,0:24:14.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,radiating heat for hundreds of years; \Ntheir contents deadly
Dialogue: 0,0:24:14.26,0:24:16.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for tens of thousands of years.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:20.17,0:24:24.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if the Americans have problems \Nfinding a place for their nuclear waste,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:24.64,0:24:27.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,imagine the problems across the Atlantic.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:35.33,0:24:39.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Europe's denser population and smaller \Nland mass have left the problem of
Dialogue: 0,0:24:39.97,0:24:43.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,getting rid of waste from \Nnuclear power stations
Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.02,0:24:47.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mired in political, social,\Nand scientific rouse.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:47.100,0:24:52.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nowhere more so than Britain, \Nwhere a decade-long search
Dialogue: 0,0:24:52.41,0:24:56.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for an underground waste dump has \Ncollapsed in utter failure
Dialogue: 0,0:24:56.07,0:24:58.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after costing half a billion dollars.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:59.37,0:25:02.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Blowers) Well in one sense, there is \Nsome urgency, 'cause I think
Dialogue: 0,0:25:02.74,0:25:07.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it would be true to say that to do nothing\Nis not an option at the present time
Dialogue: 0,0:25:07.12,0:25:09.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because wastes are accumulating\Nin every country.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:09.83,0:25:12.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) A member of the \NBritish government's
Dialogue: 0,0:25:12.05,0:25:15.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,radioactive waste management committee, \NProfessor Andy Blowers
Dialogue: 0,0:25:15.59,0:25:19.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,brings a critical eye to bear \Non the nation's nuclear industry.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:19.80,0:25:23.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Blowers) On the other hand, the kind of \Nurgency that the industry puts forward,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:23.71,0:25:27.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think, is an urgency that is backing \Ntheir own particular interests.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:27.13,0:25:31.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They do need a solution to this \Nintractable problem of nuclear waste.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:31.74,0:25:35.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If they get the solution which appears to\Nbe acceptable, then that,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:35.86,0:25:38.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to a high degree, \Nwill underpin the future of
Dialogue: 0,0:25:38.84,0:25:40.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the nuclear industry as they perceive it.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:40.84,0:25:43.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Voss) We're not motivated by providing \Nthe opportunity for
Dialogue: 0,0:25:43.71,0:25:46.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,new nuclear plants in the future.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:46.48,0:25:50.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're motivated by providing a solution \Nto the problems that are there today.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:51.79,0:25:56.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) And yet if you do provide a \Nsolution to the problems that are there
Dialogue: 0,0:25:56.21,0:25:58.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,today, the problem of nuclear waste...
Dialogue: 0,0:25:58.95,0:26:00.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Voss) Yes...\N(George) You end up do you not,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:00.89,0:26:03.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,justifying the continued existence \Nof the nuclear industry?
Dialogue: 0,0:26:04.62,0:26:09.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Voss) Under some circumstances one could \Ninterpret that. Remember that our...
Dialogue: 0,0:26:09.38,0:26:13.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) One suspects the nuclear industry\Nwill interpret it exactly that way.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:13.45,0:26:15.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Voss) They can interpret it as they like.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:16.04,0:26:37.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Music]
Dialogue: 0,0:26:38.61,0:26:42.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) Behind the nuclear industry's \Nsense of urgency lies an enterprise
Dialogue: 0,0:26:42.100,0:26:46.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,situated in Britain's beautiful \NLake district in Cambria.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:46.49,0:26:56.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[music]
Dialogue: 0,0:26:56.19,0:26:58.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's called Sellafield.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:00.48,0:27:05.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's owned by BNFL, British Nuclear Fuels, \None of the world's most powerful
Dialogue: 0,0:27:05.77,0:27:10.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,commercial nuclear conglomerates, \Nand it has only one shareholder :
Dialogue: 0,0:27:10.60,0:27:15.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the British government, and it's \NBNFL that's behind Pangea.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:16.71,0:27:21.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Bonser) BNFL have looked at a number of \Ndifferent ideas and thoughts about
Dialogue: 0,0:27:21.59,0:27:26.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to deal with nuclear waste, and this\NPangea concept in my view
Dialogue: 0,0:27:26.74,0:27:28.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the strongest I've seen.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:28.47,0:27:32.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's technically extremely \Nwell founded and
Dialogue: 0,0:27:32.27,0:27:36.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has a very good and explainable\Nsafety case.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:36.46,0:27:39.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think those things are\Nextremely important.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:40.20,0:27:47.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Of course the real unknown is whether \Nthat will be accepted and welcomed
Dialogue: 0,0:27:47.40,0:27:49.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,once it's been explained \Nand properly debated.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:50.47,0:28:13.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Music]
Dialogue: 0,0:28:13.79,0:28:18.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) BNFL's got a problem.\NAfter America, Britain has
Dialogue: 0,0:28:18.52,0:28:23.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the largest stockpile of high-level \Nradioactive waste in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:23.45,0:28:27.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Music]
Dialogue: 0,0:28:27.70,0:28:30.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It sits quietly in canisters \Nbeneath the water,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:31.34,0:28:34.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cooling down for years\Nbefore it can be touched.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:42.35,0:28:47.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's more, it's not just British waste. \NA big part of BNFL's business is
Dialogue: 0,0:28:47.61,0:28:52.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reprocessing nuclear fuel rods from power \Nstations in other parts of the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:53.92,0:28:58.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But reprocessing produces \Nradioactive waste, too,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:58.30,0:29:03.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and BNFL's customers around the world don't\Nknow what to do with their waste either.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:04.46,0:29:09.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Bonser) Some of those customers will \Nlook for an international repository
Dialogue: 0,0:29:09.49,0:29:13.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rather than a national repository\Nand so we feel that
Dialogue: 0,0:29:13.76,0:29:17.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where there's a unique and potentially \Nvery valuable solution to
Dialogue: 0,0:29:17.79,0:29:20.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what is a worldwide problem
Dialogue: 0,0:29:20.42,0:29:23.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that as a global nuclear company we would\Nwish to be involved in that.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:23.92,0:29:27.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) So in no case would \NBritish nuclear waste
Dialogue: 0,0:29:27.56,0:29:29.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,end up in a repository in Australia?
Dialogue: 0,0:29:29.74,0:29:32.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Bonser) Well of course in the \Nvery long term, that's a
Dialogue: 0,0:29:32.51,0:29:36.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,matter for government policy \Nrather than a commercial company,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:36.11,0:29:39.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we will always work within \Nthe UK government policy.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:42.48,0:29:45.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) On the River Esk, a few\Nkilometres south of Sellafield,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:45.63,0:29:48.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Martin Forwood checks radiation levels.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:49.100,0:29:54.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The plant's reputation for radioactive \Nleaks followed by cover-ups
Dialogue: 0,0:29:54.63,0:29:59.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and allegations of leukemia clusters and\Npollution of the Irish Sea
Dialogue: 0,0:29:59.15,0:30:02.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have spawned deep mistrust \Namongst environmentalists
Dialogue: 0,0:30:02.87,0:30:04.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and local opposition groups.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:05.68,0:30:09.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Forwood) They haven't changed at all. \NThey're still the murky
Dialogue: 0,0:30:09.56,0:30:12.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,deceitful company that they always were.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:13.00,0:30:16.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Bonser) We need to build confidence,\Nwe need to build trust.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:16.60,0:30:21.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We'll accept we've made mistakes \Nand try to put them right.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:21.05,0:30:24.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We operate in a number of different \Ncountries on a number of different sites
Dialogue: 0,0:30:24.76,0:30:29.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we try to adopt that \Nopen approach towards
Dialogue: 0,0:30:29.00,0:30:30.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what we do wherever we operate,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:30.90,0:30:33.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we would do \Njust the same in Australia.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:36.59,0:30:39.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) Martin Forwood, like most \NBritish environmentalists,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:39.92,0:30:44.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,believes BNFL should abandon plans\Nfor underground dumps and
Dialogue: 0,0:30:44.50,0:30:49.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be forced to keep its waste on site until\Nsafer ways are found to deal with it.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:52.14,0:30:55.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Forwood) The industry's option which is\Nto push it underground,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:55.21,0:31:00.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very much out-of-site, out-of-mind, \Nhas so many flaws in it that
Dialogue: 0,0:31:00.47,0:31:07.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it would be crassly wrong, I believe, \Non behalf of future generations
Dialogue: 0,0:31:07.30,0:31:10.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to allow that to go ahead. \NThe second point--
Dialogue: 0,0:31:10.48,0:31:14.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think I've already mentioned that it \Nwould not be right, it would be immoral,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:14.77,0:31:19.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in our view, to land a country--\Nlet's say Australia,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:19.20,0:31:22.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with everybody else's waste problems. \NThat would be wrong.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:24.60,0:31:29.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) To London, where BNFL's woes \Nhave not endeared it to
Dialogue: 0,0:31:29.40,0:31:31.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,its owner, the British government.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:41.79,0:31:45.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The latest investigation into \Nradioactive waste--
Dialogue: 0,0:31:45.17,0:31:47.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a select committee of the House of Lords--
Dialogue: 0,0:31:47.61,0:31:52.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,concluded last month that underground\Nrepositories are still the best bet.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:53.38,0:31:59.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Tombs) But since it will take 24 years \Neven to open a deep geological disposal,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:59.86,0:32:03.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you need to start now, because \Nprocrastination is the thief of time,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:03.64,0:32:08.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that 24 years can stretch into\N50, 60, sometime, never,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:08.11,0:32:11.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's a problem of such magnitude\Nthat it has to be tackled.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:11.51,0:32:16.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Lord Tombs) That is probably the way in\Nwhich international development of take—
Dialogue: 0,0:32:16.48,0:32:20.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) Lord Tombs believes Britain will\Nhave to dispose of its own waste at home,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:20.95,0:32:25.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but says BNFL has every right to \Nexplore the Pangea idea
Dialogue: 0,0:32:25.40,0:32:27.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for other countries' wastes.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:27.59,0:32:31.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Tombs) Well it could well be because \Nthere are nuclear reactors in the far east
Dialogue: 0,0:32:31.64,0:32:34.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for which may provide a\Nmarket for Australia.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:34.04,0:32:35.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not qualified to comment on that.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:35.76,0:32:38.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All I'm saying is I don't think \Nthe UK's a very good prospect
Dialogue: 0,0:32:38.62,0:32:40.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the reasons I've outlined.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:40.62,0:32:42.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) Do you think perhaps those\Na little politically insensitive
Dialogue: 0,0:32:42.85,0:32:45.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-- the government owned body in Britain...\N(Tombs) ...Not at all...
Dialogue: 0,0:32:45.46,0:32:46.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) ...Should be\Ninvestigating in Australia?
Dialogue: 0,0:32:46.90,0:32:50.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Tombs) No I would put it in a way which \Nmay, you may not appreciate.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:50.62,0:32:54.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would say that they have enormous\Nexpertise which Australia doesn't,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:54.02,0:32:58.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and by helping Australia to develop \Npossibilities that they're actually
Dialogue: 0,0:32:58.77,0:33:00.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,helping Australia, which \NI'm all in favour of.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:02.33,0:33:05.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) Whether BNFL is doing \NAustralia a favour with
Dialogue: 0,0:33:05.13,0:33:08.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,its Pangea proposal is a moot point.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:12.75,0:33:17.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pangea's backers say a mining state \Nlike Western Australia already has
Dialogue: 0,0:33:17.38,0:33:21.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the expertise to build a port,\Na railway line into the desert,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:21.68,0:33:24.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the catacomb to handle the waste.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:24.23,0:33:28.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Investments that would give the state \Nan economic shot in the arm--
Dialogue: 0,0:33:28.18,0:33:31.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a $6 billion jolt in start-up \Ncosts alone--
Dialogue: 0,0:33:31.97,0:33:36.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,$200 billion to Australia over 40 years.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:37.84,0:33:42.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pangea chose one of the Liberal Party's\Nfavoured economic modellers
Dialogue: 0,0:33:42.04,0:33:43.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to assess its figures.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:44.07,0:33:47.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Voss) Access Economics has estimated \Nthat this leads to about a
Dialogue: 0,0:33:47.86,0:33:52.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,1% increase in the gross domestic product\Nand that brings another 50,000
Dialogue: 0,0:33:52.68,0:33:55.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,jobs just from economic development,\Neconomic stimulation.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:55.87,0:33:58.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Minchin) I mean you might as well \Nsuggest that Australia take
Dialogue: 0,0:33:58.45,0:34:00.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the world's prison population--
Dialogue: 0,0:34:00.55,0:34:02.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know we've got plenty of space, why \Nnot build a great big prison
Dialogue: 0,0:34:02.61,0:34:04.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Alice Springs and take \Nall the world's prisoners?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:04.75,0:34:08.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well you know that's, that's ridiculous. \NSo is this proposal.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:08.54,0:34:11.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Lawrence) The amount of money being\Ntalked about is mind boggling,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:11.18,0:34:14.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it might be in the future, \Nparticularly if there are further economic
Dialogue: 0,0:34:14.31,0:34:16.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,problems flying out of what's \Nhappened in Asia that some
Dialogue: 0,0:34:16.83,0:34:20.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Australian government somewhere might say\N"Well let's have a look at this."
Dialogue: 0,0:34:20.11,0:34:27.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[People shouting]
Dialogue: 0,0:34:27.68,0:34:30.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) Jobs and profits are one thing
Dialogue: 0,0:34:30.54,0:34:33.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-- the politics of the nuclear debate \Nanother thing entirely.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:34.47,0:34:41.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[People chanting]
Dialogue: 0,0:34:41.32,0:34:45.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Government's already faced with\Nthe passions aroused by the go-aheads
Dialogue: 0,0:34:45.03,0:34:47.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the Jabiluka and Beverley \Nuranium mines,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:48.02,0:34:51.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by its own search for a dump \Nfor Australia's low-level and intermediate
Dialogue: 0,0:34:51.89,0:34:54.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nuclear waste, and by plans for a new
Dialogue: 0,0:34:54.75,0:34:58.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nuclear research reactor at Sydney's \NLucas Heights.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:58.82,0:35:03.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To add Pangea to the menu would \Nseem cause political indigestion.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:03.67,0:35:04.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Senator Nick Minchin, Minister \Nfor Industry & Resources:
Dialogue: 0,0:35:04.77,0:35:08.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Q: Is your policy determined on the \Nscience of the matter,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:08.20,0:35:12.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the environmental issues of the \Nmatter, or the simple politics of it?
Dialogue: 0,0:35:12.44,0:35:15.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A: Well it's a combination. I mean the
Dialogue: 0,0:35:15.94,0:35:18.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,position of the Australian \Ncommunity is critical
Dialogue: 0,0:35:18.26,0:35:19.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and as I say, I don't think there's
Dialogue: 0,0:35:19.99,0:35:23.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,any basis on which the community \Nis prepared to accept this.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:25.65,0:35:28.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Peter George: But Pangea's \Nbeen at work on this area too.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:30.25,0:35:33.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While proposals to replace the old \NLucas Heights reactor
Dialogue: 0,0:35:33.48,0:35:35.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are causing controversy, Pangea believes
Dialogue: 0,0:35:35.86,0:35:39.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Australian antagonism to nuclear \Nissues is not
Dialogue: 0,0:35:39.39,0:35:41.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as deep rooted as it seems.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:42.72,0:35:45.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Peter George:\NOver 18 months, Pangea's spent a quarter
Dialogue: 0,0:35:45.43,0:35:47.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a million dollars on polling by the
Dialogue: 0,0:35:47.47,0:35:50.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Liberal Party's own pollster Mark Textor
Dialogue: 0,0:35:50.46,0:35:55.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whose report warns Pangea that most \NAustralians are ill-informed and afraid of
Dialogue: 0,0:35:55.70,0:35:56.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nuclear issues.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:57.56,0:35:58.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But crucially, the report
Dialogue: 0,0:35:58.83,0:36:03.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,goes on to say: "as long as people's \Nsafety concerns can be satisfied,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:03.32,0:36:06.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we cannot over-emphasise the \Nimportance of the magnitude
Dialogue: 0,0:36:06.83,0:36:07.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this task,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:07.82,0:36:11.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People could see the benefits of a \Nnuclear waste dump".
Dialogue: 0,0:36:12.50,0:36:15.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Jim Voss, General Manager, Pangea:\NThere's about 35 per cent of the
Dialogue: 0,0:36:15.73,0:36:20.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,populous believes that Pangea may \Nwell be in the national interest.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:21.14,0:36:26.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A very solid 25-28 per cent \Nare absolutely convinced
Dialogue: 0,0:36:26.20,0:36:28.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it wouldn't be in the nation's \Nbest interest.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:28.61,0:36:33.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The group in the middle are asking the \Nfundamental question of why?
Dialogue: 0,0:36:35.42,0:36:37.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why dispose of this material?
Dialogue: 0,0:36:37.52,0:36:40.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why now? Why Australia?
Dialogue: 0,0:36:40.26,0:36:41.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Senator Nick Minchin, Minister for \NIndustry & Resources: I've, as you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:41.34,0:36:44.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been involved in the professional side \Nof the Liberal Party for 14 years.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:44.36,0:36:45.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I did a lot of polling myself.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:46.27,0:36:49.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd have to say I know all the \Ntricks of the trade
Dialogue: 0,0:36:49.96,0:36:51.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I know you can get any result you like
Dialogue: 0,0:36:51.46,0:36:53.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,depending on the way you ask the question
Dialogue: 0,0:36:53.46,0:36:55.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Footage - Pangea advertisement:\N"There's no safer place in the
Dialogue: 0,0:36:55.66,0:36:59.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,world to make the world a safer place"
Dialogue: 0,0:36:59.28,0:37:01.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Peter George:\NFor now, Pangea's advertising
Dialogue: 0,0:37:01.77,0:37:04.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,campaign is on hold; plans to start
Dialogue: 0,0:37:04.42,0:37:06.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,field studies this year are postponed,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:07.85,0:37:10.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but with so much money behind it, Pangea
Dialogue: 0,0:37:10.35,0:37:14.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and those who support it believe time \Ncan be used to advantage.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:14.24,0:37:16.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Footage -- Pangea advertisement:\N"...And a kilometre under a remote dessert
Dialogue: 0,0:37:16.70,0:37:22.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Australia is a gigantic non-porous \Nrock that hasn't moved for millions of
Dialogue: 0,0:37:22.50,0:37:26.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,years... and won't for millions more."
Dialogue: 0,0:37:26.37,0:37:28.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Prof. Brian Anderson, Australian National\NUniversity: I certainly believe
Dialogue: 0,0:37:28.28,0:37:33.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a chance for the proposal to get\Noff the ground. I'm not sure of the time
Dialogue: 0,0:37:33.88,0:37:39.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,scale, but this is a problem that's going\Nto be with us for a very very long time
Dialogue: 0,0:37:40.17,0:37:46.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you know -- governments change \Nand, and politicians, Ministers change and
Dialogue: 0,0:37:46.61,0:37:53.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our relationships with other countries \Nchange so to imagine that we could
Dialogue: 0,0:37:53.72,0:37:57.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,continue to maintain an attitude that \Nwe're not even going to look
Dialogue: 0,0:37:57.61,0:38:01.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the proposal -- I don't think \Nthat's sustainable.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:01.16,0:38:02.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Dr. Carmen Lawrence, MP for \NFremantle, Labor: If any illustration
Dialogue: 0,0:38:02.83,0:38:06.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was needed of the fact that you can't \Ndispose safely of waste -- it's the Pangea
Dialogue: 0,0:38:06.83,0:38:12.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,proposal. I've actually learned of this\Nproposal in some detail. I made it my
Dialogue: 0,0:38:12.20,0:38:16.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,business to find out about it. They are \Nserious, they are well-funded...
Dialogue: 0,0:38:17.38,0:38:21.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're people who've worked around the\Nmining industry for a very long time and
Dialogue: 0,0:38:21.38,0:38:25.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it would be foolish of anybody -- \Ngovernment or people such as me opposed to
Dialogue: 0,0:38:25.38,0:38:29.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what they're proposing to underestimate \Ntheir long term commitment
Dialogue: 0,0:38:29.22,0:38:30.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to this proposal.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:31.68,0:38:35.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Peter George: Faced with closed doors\Nat a federal level, Pangea's strategy
Dialogue: 0,0:38:35.68,0:38:40.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has focused on Perth, where it thinks \Npolitical opposition may be softer and
Dialogue: 0,0:38:40.57,0:38:42.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,divisions may exist.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:44.22,0:38:48.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While no member of the West Australian \Ngovernment would speak to Four Corners,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:48.22,0:38:52.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Premier Richard Court recently ruled out \Nthe Pangea proposal,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:52.42,0:38:58.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,though in 1994 he did support a national \Ndump for low and medium-level waste
Dialogue: 0,0:38:58.18,0:38:59.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the state's gold fields.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:00.98,0:39:06.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Though the Resources Minister also rejects\NPangea -- the company thinks the state is
Dialogue: 0,0:39:06.39,0:39:09.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nevertheless sending mixed signals.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:09.32,0:39:11.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Colin Barnett (26 March 1999):\NNow I can see
Dialogue: 0,0:39:11.21,0:39:15.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a scenario developing in future where \Ncountries that supply uranium will share
Dialogue: 0,0:39:15.72,0:39:19.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some of the obligations for disposing of\Nthe waste but that in the first instance
Dialogue: 0,0:39:19.80,0:39:23.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is an issue for the Australian government,\Nand I think Australia as a signatory to the
Dialogue: 0,0:39:23.94,0:39:28.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,non-proliferation treaty needs to be part\Nof the international debate about uranium.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:28.74,0:39:31.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Peter George: Are there doors open?\NIs there interest?
Dialogue: 0,0:39:32.61,0:39:36.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Voss: I don't think overtly there is\Nor there is any evidence there is not.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:37.17,0:39:41.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a long educational process that\Nwould have to be done before we'd be,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:41.94,0:39:43.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we'd know whether there really are\Ndoors open.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:43.60,0:39:47.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Senator Minchin: The only way this could\Nadvance, in fact, is if a state government
Dialogue: 0,0:39:47.94,0:39:54.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, decided that it would like to entertain\Nthis proposition and grant the relevant
Dialogue: 0,0:39:54.68,0:39:58.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,state approvals for such a project\Nto proceed.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:58.83,0:40:02.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it's not going to go anywhere without\Nthe Commonwealth authorising
Dialogue: 0,0:40:02.83,0:40:05.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the importation of the materials.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:05.88,0:40:11.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Peter George: Senator Minchin has said to\Nus, to Four Corners, "We will not become a
Dialogue: 0,0:40:11.83,0:40:14.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,dumping ground for the world's nuclear\Nwaste."
Dialogue: 0,0:40:14.14,0:40:15.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Voss: Mmm-hmm.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:15.58,0:40:20.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,George: Premier Court has said, "We don't want\Nto be the dump for other countries' waste."
Dialogue: 0,0:40:20.32,0:40:23.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now those seem pretty clear policies,\Ndon't they?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:23.75,0:40:24.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Voss: Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:26.29,0:40:29.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,George: Do you see any door open at all\Nunder those circumstances?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:30.64,0:40:35.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Voss: Taken at face value, those words\Nwould say absolutely there's no door open.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:35.98,0:40:39.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,George: So why not pack up and go away\Nunder those circumstances?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:40.62,0:40:46.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Voss: It's as I said to you a moment ago, the–\Nif you, you have to turn this on it's ear.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:46.42,0:40:51.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If they've said yes today, would it be any\Nmore meaningful to us in the long term?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:52.76,0:40:58.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If our board and our investors would\Nlike us to move forward and to try to
Dialogue: 0,0:40:58.96,0:41:04.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,turn a no into a yes on a bipartisan\Nbasis, then that's what we'll do.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:04.72,0:41:10.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[This is the sedimentary basin area\Nthat we're looking at, and we
Dialogue: 0,0:41:10.50,0:41:15.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wanted to go and look in more detail at\Nwhat this terrain looks like in particular]
Dialogue: 0,0:41:15.64,0:41:18.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Peter George: Ten days ago, Pangea\Nrepresentatives from Britain and the
Dialogue: 0,0:41:18.78,0:41:24.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,United States flew in to Melbourne for a\Ntwo-day strategy meeting, while last week
Dialogue: 0,0:41:24.67,0:41:30.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Perth, Pangea hosted a dozen Australian\Nand international scientists for a first
Dialogue: 0,0:41:30.32,0:41:33.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,private meeting of its scientific\Nreview board.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:33.88,0:41:35.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Peter George: So how much more money,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:35.77,0:41:38.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how much more time are you prepared\Nto put into this before you actually have
Dialogue: 0,0:41:38.72,0:41:39.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make a decision?
Dialogue: 0,0:41:39.81,0:41:41.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Voss: Well first up that's not\Nmy decision,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:41.67,0:41:43.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's, that's the decision of the\Nboard of directors.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:43.99,0:41:47.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,George: Mmm, but you speak for Pangea,\Nyou must know what the view is?
Dialogue: 0,0:41:47.14,0:41:52.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Voss: In the broader sense the, sometime\Nduring this calendar year there will be
Dialogue: 0,0:41:52.23,0:41:57.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a decision as to what course of action\Nto take next, which country,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:57.10,0:41:59.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which course, which strategy.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:00.54,0:42:06.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Pentz) In terms of predictability from one\Nplace to another, do we got any more feel
Dialogue: 0,0:42:06.62,0:42:10.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from that, and some of these particular\Nareas you've started to look at?
Dialogue: 0,0:42:10.39,0:42:15.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(George) Pangea's strategy has brought\Nabout its own undoing, opening it to the
Dialogue: 0,0:42:15.33,0:42:20.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,same accusations of secrecy that has\Ndogged the nuclear industry from birth.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:21.80,0:42:27.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But succeed or fail, it's an uncomfortable\Nreminder that Australia is, after all,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:27.83,0:42:30.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a part of the nuclear world\Nand its problems.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:30.84,0:42:36.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Pentz): At the present moment Australia\Nprovides a significant quantity of uranium
Dialogue: 0,0:42:36.60,0:42:41.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the world. If, in fact, there is a\Nrepository, it's kind of like...
Dialogue: 0,0:42:43.31,0:42:49.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,womb to tomb. So to say that Australia\Nis not a nuclear power
Dialogue: 0,0:42:49.44,0:42:54.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,state is correct, right, but it is in the\Nnuclear fuel cycle.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:54.99,0:43:00.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Minchin): It does not then follow that\NAustralia is required to receive back
Dialogue: 0,0:43:00.15,0:43:05.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all that waste material, and I really do\Nthink countries have to take a very
Dialogue: 0,0:43:05.21,0:43:10.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,responsible approach when they enter\Ninto the business of generating their
Dialogue: 0,0:43:10.59,0:43:12.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,electricity by nuclear power.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:12.32,0:43:15.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Lawrence): Australia is putting itself,\NI think, in a difficult position by
Dialogue: 0,0:43:15.28,0:43:19.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,continuing to expand the nuclear industry\Nby, as the current government is doing,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:19.28,0:43:21.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,expanding the mining of uranium in\Nthis country.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:21.80,0:43:25.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are in a sense placing ourselves\Nin some position of obligation
Dialogue: 0,0:43:25.36,0:43:27.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the disposal of those wastes.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:34.59,0:43:40.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Peter George: If it fails in Australia,\NPangea says it'll turn its focus to Argentina.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:42.48,0:43:47.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it's the unique combination of geology,\Npolitical stability and international
Dialogue: 0,0:43:47.90,0:43:51.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,credentials that first brought Pangea to\NAustralia.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:52.45,0:43:55.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Credentials which have put Australia\Nin the nuclear limelight and
Dialogue: 0,0:43:55.78,0:44:01.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will continue to do so as concern about\Nnuclear waste and nuclear disarmament
Dialogue: 0,0:44:01.52,0:44:03.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,grows into the next century.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:03.48,0:44:39.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[dramatic jazz music]