0:00:05.113,0:00:07.712
Deep beneath the West Australian outback
0:00:07.712,0:00:10.042
lies the germ of an idea.
0:00:10.744,0:00:14.037
A dream about [br]making the world a safer place
0:00:14.037,0:00:16.587
that's gone beyond just the dreaming.
0:00:17.607,0:00:21.677
(man) "We have a very specific goal,[br]dispose of nuclear wastes,
0:00:21.677,0:00:25.690
pull out the nuclear weapons[br]and get them out of the way."
0:00:27.228,0:00:31.768
Jim Voss envisages a catacomb[br]500 metres beneath his feet
0:00:31.768,0:00:33.738
that would keep safe forever
0:00:33.738,0:00:37.373
one of the most toxic poisons[br]known to humankind.
0:00:37.493,0:00:39.223
(Voss) "Australia has the opportunity
0:00:39.223,0:00:41.695
to use its democratic forces
0:00:41.695,0:00:44.695
to say this is something[br]we should be doing for the world."
0:00:46.225,0:00:49.535
For half a century,[br]the problem of nuclear waste disposal
0:00:49.535,0:00:53.046
has dogged the world,[br]and one company called Pangea,
0:00:53.046,0:00:57.794
backed by big money and influence,[br]wants to bury it in Australia.
0:00:58.244,0:01:01.284
"You'll find a great deal [br]of enthusiasm in the United States,
0:01:01.284,0:01:03.334
and I suspect around the world."
0:01:03.334,0:01:07.154
"They have backing from incredible people[br]within government and industry."
0:01:07.155,0:01:10.995
(ad) To make the world a safer place[br]for the people we love...
0:01:11.167,0:01:15.817
Tonight, Four Corners[br]goes inside the company called Pangea.
0:01:15.817,0:01:19.734
We examine a scheme[br]that's provoked accusations of secrecy
0:01:19.734,0:01:22.684
and back-door influence peddling,
0:01:22.684,0:01:24.225
a scheme that forces Australia
0:01:24.225,0:01:27.565
to confront its role[br]in the nuclear world.
0:01:27.753,0:01:31.599
Australia will make[br]our world a safer place
0:01:32.669,0:01:34.879
"We're not interested in nuclear power
0:01:34.879,0:01:39.699
and we're not interested in being[br]the world's nuclear waste dump."
0:01:39.897,0:01:44.187
♪ (music) ♪
0:01:47.226,0:01:50.496
(Voss) "We're just headed out[br]here into the desert."
0:01:52.881,0:01:55.561
(man) "What you're looking for, [br]of course
0:01:55.561,0:01:58.041
is the most remote areas [br]you can find, right?"
0:01:58.722,0:02:00.362
(Voss) "Well, in part.
0:02:00.362,0:02:05.052
The geology is far more important [br]than the remoteness."
0:02:05.052,0:02:08.774
Pangea's Jim Voss [br]and scientist Charles McCombie
0:02:08.774,0:02:10.754
took Four Corners on the long trip [br]
0:02:10.754,0:02:15.334
from Perth, 340 kilometres[br]north east of Kalgoorlie,
0:02:15.334,0:02:18.984
to the edge of the Great Victoria Desert.
0:02:18.984,0:02:22.816
(McCombie) "The flatness, even more [br]than how it looks on the surface,
0:02:22.816,0:02:25.306
if you look out at the horizon [br]it's all very flat.
0:02:25.306,0:02:28.966
This is one of the flattest areas[br]in the world and that's a real key issue
0:02:28.966,0:02:31.936
to the -- what we call a high isolation site."
0:02:31.936,0:02:34.466
(helicopter blades whirring)
0:02:34.466,0:02:39.445
Latitude 28 south, longitude 123 east.
0:02:39.445,0:02:42.935
(whirring continues)
0:02:42.965,0:02:45.846
Out in this area [br]the size of Western Europe
0:02:45.846,0:02:48.817
lies a patch of ground [br]20 kilometres square
0:02:48.817,0:02:52.877
that they believe could house [br]a repository for up to 20 percent
0:02:52.877,0:02:55.327
of the world's nuclear waste.
0:02:57.347,0:03:02.269
Out here you find pangea rock -- [br]very old, very stable --
0:03:02.269,0:03:06.059
the geology from which [br]the company gets its name.
0:03:06.059,0:03:09.607
(McCombie) "And in the basin area[br]and where we're on the edge now,
0:03:09.607,0:03:14.307
it's 300 to 800 million years [br]of quiet build-up of sediments.
0:03:14.307,0:03:18.330
So this is one of the most [br]stable geological areas
0:03:18.330,0:03:20.753
that you'll find in the world."
0:03:20.753,0:03:24.386
But it's not just science. [br]Politics are just as crucial
0:03:24.386,0:03:27.946
in dealing with radioactive waste [br]and nuclear disarmament
0:03:27.946,0:03:31.697
and that's what makes Australia [br]more attractive than Argentina,
0:03:31.697,0:03:36.497
Namibia, and China, [br]where pangea rock is also found.
0:03:36.497,0:03:39.809
(Voss) "Well, it's the political stability[br]that we're concerned about.
0:03:39.809,0:03:42.979
Australia's tradition [br]in democratic principles,
0:03:42.979,0:03:47.419
Australia's environmental activism [br]is vital to us. Australia's role
0:03:47.419,0:03:51.409
in the international community [br]for disarmament for all sorts of weapons
0:03:51.409,0:03:57.909
nuclear, land mines, chemical weapons,[br]very important facets to us for Australia"
0:03:59.059,0:04:03.739
Behind Pangea stand [br]three international organisations.
0:04:03.739,0:04:08.620
The huge British government-owned [br]nuclear conglomerate, BNFL
0:04:08.620,0:04:13.960
British Nuclear Fuels Limited, [br]which owns 80 percent
0:04:13.960,0:04:16.663
a Canadian company [br]called Golder Associates
0:04:16.663,0:04:20.573
world experts in toxic waste management
0:04:20.573,0:04:24.902
and Nagra, a Swiss organisation [br]responsible for finding
0:04:24.902,0:04:29.251
a nuclear waste dump[br]for Switzerland's nuclear industry.
0:04:30.161,0:04:33.040
(advertisement) The simple fact [br]is that more than 30 countries
0:04:33.040,0:04:35.740
use nuclear power.
0:04:35.740,0:04:39.021
Pangea originally planned [br]to launch its scheme on Australians
0:04:39.021,0:04:43.901
last month, with a 9 million dollar[br]war chest for advertising and promoting
0:04:43.901,0:04:47.320
a scheme it knew would meet [br]an incredulous public
0:04:47.320,0:04:49.540
and skeptical politicians.
0:04:51.190,0:04:55.320
Those plans fell apart in December[br]last year, when the British arm
0:04:55.320,0:04:57.620
of Friends Of The Earth [br]got hold of the video
0:04:57.620,0:05:01.440
Pangea prepared for the launch [br]and sent it to Australia.
0:05:02.919,0:05:06.139
(Pangea promotional video) Above all, [br]Pangea will provide the world
0:05:06.139,0:05:09.569
with a safe solution [br]to the disposal of nuclear materials.
0:05:10.401,0:05:13.347
(man) "Oh, it arrived in [br]an unmarked brown envelope
0:05:13.347,0:05:17.527
on my desk, and I had no idea [br]where it came from. I felt that this
0:05:17.527,0:05:26.837
should not be sprung on Australians [br]in a hole-in-the-wall secret underhand way
0:05:26.837,0:05:32.377
but they should learn as soon as possible [br]what was being planned for them."
0:05:32.613,0:05:35.303
(Pangea promotional video)[br]Before any responsible country
0:05:35.303,0:05:38.983
would send their waste for disposal, [br]they must be certain
0:05:38.983,0:05:43.533
not only that the respository is safe, [br]but also that its safety must be seen
0:05:43.533,0:05:47.303
to be clearly and rigorously regulated.
0:05:47.303,0:05:53.393
(Voss) "We were of course, disappointed. [br]It was our intention to roll Pangea out
0:05:53.393,0:06:00.033
in a very public and planned manner,[br]to give everybody an opportunity to debate."
0:06:00.033,0:06:04.033
(woman) "My question is to [br]Senator Minchin, Minister for Resources -"
0:06:04.033,0:06:08.407
The response to the video was immediate. [br]Opponents were appalled
0:06:08.407,0:06:11.697
at the idea of a nuclear dumping ground.
0:06:11.697,0:06:15.377
(woman) " ... Will he rule out completely [br]any involvement of his government
0:06:15.377,0:06:19.787
in setting up an international nuclear [br]waste repository in Australia?"
0:06:19.787,0:06:23.252
The Federal Government [br]moved to distance itself.
0:06:23.252,0:06:26.962
(Senator Minchin) "And the Government[br]has absolutely no intention of accepting
0:06:26.962,0:06:30.018
the radioactive waste of other countries.[br]The policy is clear - "
0:06:30.018,0:06:33.228
In the following months, [br]the Industry and Resources Minister's line
0:06:33.228,0:06:34.708
has hardened.
0:06:34.708,0:06:37.778
(Senator Minchin) "There may be [br]other countries that
0:06:37.778,0:06:41.778
in far less fortuitous [br]economic circumstances than Australia
0:06:41.778,0:06:45.678
that do decide they want to accept [br]international nuclear waste.
0:06:45.678,0:06:48.988
Well that's their business, [br]and that may be one way
0:06:48.988,0:06:52.268
in which those countries [br]with a waste problem deal with it.
0:06:52.268,0:06:55.728
But Australia won't be that nation [br]that accepts the waste."
0:06:56.698,0:07:01.438
But Pangea's plans for the outback [br]are a reminder of Australia's part
0:07:01.438,0:07:05.138
in the nuclear world:[br]an exporter of uranium,
0:07:05.138,0:07:10.988
part of the American nuclear umbrella [br]and a leading advocate of disarmament.
0:07:10.988,0:07:14.597
What Pangea is doing [br]is putting together a growing network
0:07:14.597,0:07:17.197
of international [br]and Australian businessmen,
0:07:17.197,0:07:21.787
scientists and policy makers who believe [br]that Australia should also have a role
0:07:21.787,0:07:26.817
to play in resolving one of the [br]nuclear age's most pressing problems:
0:07:26.817,0:07:30.225
what to do with the stockpiles [br]of nuclear waste
0:07:30.225,0:07:33.745
that have been growing now [br]for half a century.
0:07:33.745,0:07:37.185
It's a debate they say [br]that Australia has to have
0:07:37.185,0:07:42.397
one that can't be dodged forever,[br]and one upon which Australians themselves
0:07:42.397,0:07:45.293
will eventually have to take a stand.
0:07:45.293,0:07:49.293
(indistinct lecturing)
0:07:49.293,0:07:53.402
Amongst those who believe Australia [br]should play a role is the president
0:07:53.402,0:07:57.736
of the Australian Academy of Science [br]who's personally backing Pangea
0:07:57.736,0:08:00.966
and will sit on [br]its scientific review panel.
0:08:00.966,0:08:06.556
(professor) "I think it is important [br]that they engage the Australian public
0:08:06.556,0:08:13.656
and engage the Australian public's [br]representatives, namely the politicians
0:08:13.656,0:08:18.415
so that the politicians get [br]as clear a view as it's possible to get
0:08:18.415,0:08:23.914
of what the proposal's really about. [br]The existence of nuclear waste
0:08:23.914,0:08:29.384
is a world problem and Australia [br]in this respect is part of the world
0:08:29.384,0:08:36.338
and if we can help reduce that danger [br]by putting that particular problem to bed
0:08:36.338,0:08:37.545
that is great."
0:08:37.545,0:08:42.875
(Jenkins) "This industry thinking that [br]it can solve its problems by shifting them
0:08:42.875,0:08:47.369
to some remote place, [br]and also onto future generations
0:08:47.369,0:08:50.799
and that makes one quietly angry."
0:08:50.804,0:09:16.754
♪ (ominous music) ♪
0:09:16.754,0:09:21.735
The creeping poison of nuclear waste [br]began with the advent of the nuclear age
0:09:21.735,0:09:25.945
more than half a century ago, [br]but it took three decades
0:09:25.945,0:09:32.395
before governments [br]began to take it seriously.
0:09:32.395,0:09:37.815
In 1943, the 2,000 citizens of Hanford [br]and neighbouring Bluff Cliffs
0:09:37.815,0:09:43.081
in the northwest US state of Washington [br]got 30 days notice to move out
0:09:43.081,0:09:47.584
when the top-secret Manhattan Program [br]to build the first atomic bomb
0:09:47.584,0:09:52.714
got underway.[br]They never came back.
0:09:58.692,0:10:04.875
Fifty-six years later, what's left behind[br]is abandoned, no longer top secret
0:10:04.875,0:10:07.435
but still deadly.
0:10:15.106,0:10:20.186
1,400 square kilometres[br]of poisoned land, a wilderness
0:10:20.186,0:10:22.976
of dumped nuclear waste [br]from the reactors
0:10:22.976,0:10:26.056
that produced plutonium [br]for bombs and warheads
0:10:26.056,0:10:29.716
fodder for 30 years of cold war.
0:10:31.879,0:10:35.879
(construction machinery)
0:10:36.994,0:10:40.924
The detritus lies scattered and buried.
0:10:41.473,0:10:45.003
(more machinery)
0:10:45.333,0:10:49.225
A clean-up's underway, [br]but it'll take 50 years
0:10:49.225,0:10:54.515
at a cost of five and a half [br]million dollars every single day.
0:10:58.343,0:11:02.503
David Pentz first came to Hanford [br]in the '80s at the behest
0:11:02.503,0:11:04.873
of the American government.
0:11:04.873,0:11:07.113
A specialist in waste disposal,
0:11:07.113,0:11:11.522
Pentz spent three years investigating [br]whether the contaminated site
0:11:11.522,0:11:16.792
might become the world's first permanent [br]dump for highly radioactive waste.
0:11:18.261,0:11:20.959
It didn't work,[br]because the geology
0:11:20.959,0:11:24.551
proved too complex, [br]and it's not yet worked
0:11:24.551,0:11:26.705
anywhere else in the world.
0:11:26.705,0:11:30.875
(Pentz) "I think total costs, probably [br]we've spent in the world today,
0:11:30.875,0:11:42.815
is certainly in excess of $20 billion,[br]and we obviously don't have a repository
0:11:42.816,0:11:46.026
licenced repository,[br]anywhere in the world."
0:11:46.040,0:11:50.690
Pentz went home to Seattle, [br]but the idea of a disposal site
0:11:50.690,0:11:53.807
deep underground did not go away.
0:11:53.807,0:11:59.137
He nagged at the problem [br]and it nagged at him.
0:11:59.137,0:12:03.647
Pentz was chairman of Golder Associates,[br]the industrial waste experts
0:12:03.654,0:12:10.204
and under its umbrella in March 1997, [br]he set up Pangea Resources Limited.
0:12:10.204,0:12:16.604
(Pentz) "We see ourselves as an ambassador[br]of a problem, a world problem,
0:12:16.604,0:12:24.846
and we think Australia should [br]at least talk about it and consider it
0:12:24.846,0:12:30.127
in a rational sense [br]because of, that we at least,
0:12:30.127,0:12:33.495
and I think you will find [br]others in the world
0:12:33.495,0:12:38.615
believe that Australia [br]has an incredible opportunity
0:12:38.615,0:12:41.485
to help the world, [br]and if you want to call that
0:12:41.485,0:12:44.125
as being good neighbourly, so be it.
0:12:44.125,0:12:48.645
To me, good neighbourly [br]doesn't put enough dimension
0:12:48.645,0:12:53.516
on the challenge that the world faces.
0:12:56.412,0:12:59.292
From modest offices [br]in the high-tech part of Seattle
0:12:59.292,0:13:02.682
that is home to Microsoft, [br]Pentz is working to ensure
0:13:02.682,0:13:05.352
the idea doesn't die.
0:13:05.352,0:13:08.122
(woman) "Mr. Pentz, I have Australia[br]and the UK on the line
0:13:08.122,0:13:10.922
- for the conference call."[br]- "Thank you very much."
0:13:10.922,0:13:14.452
(Pentz) "I could say our tactics [br]are absolutely a disaster, unequivocally.
0:13:14.452,0:13:19.229
I would say however our tactics [br]were not of our own making, right?"
0:13:19.229,0:13:23.009
(George) "So in retrospect, the secrecy [br]with which you've cloaked your proposal
0:13:23.009,0:13:24.319
has been a mistake?"
0:13:24.319,0:13:28.789
"Yes I think that, and some people, [br]and I have questioned myself
0:13:28.789,0:13:30.505
whether that was right."
0:13:30.505,0:13:34.135
(George) "Because one of the great [br]criticisms of the whole nuclear industry
0:13:34.135,0:13:37.435
and all the, in it's history,[br]has always been its secrecy, hasn't it?"
0:13:37.435,0:13:41.435
"Absolutely, and that's tied [br]both sides of the nuclear industry.
0:13:41.435,0:13:46.015
Obviously on the weapons side [br]and even on the commercial side.
0:13:46.015,0:13:47.726
I couldn't agree with you more."
0:13:47.726,0:13:52.988
- (man) "Hello, David."[br]- (Pentz) "Well hi, Jim! Welcome aboard!"
0:13:52.988,0:13:57.318
Pentz still runs about 60 people[br]around the world, some half of them
0:13:57.318,0:14:02.317
contracted on a part-time basis. [br]Amongst them, Ralph Stoll
0:14:02.317,0:14:05.387
a former US nuclear submarine commander.
0:14:05.387,0:14:10.407
(Stoll) "It looks like, there's a reason[br]to go to Washington next week,
0:14:10.407,0:14:12.888
to follow up with some of these ideas."
0:14:12.888,0:14:18.278
In Australia, Jim Voss is looking [br]for new ways to open doors for Pangea.
0:14:18.278,0:14:23.447
(Voss on phone) "The Pangea papers were[br]right where we wanted them, that is
0:14:23.447,0:14:27.237
presenting where we stand [br]in our feasibility studies."
0:14:27.237,0:14:28.667
(Pentz) "Yeah."
0:14:28.667,0:14:33.767
There's no shortage of funds. [br]Pangea had a $40 million budget this year
0:14:33.767,0:14:38.021
but much of it won't now get spent [br]because the political heat in Australia
0:14:38.021,0:14:42.179
has delayed plans for exploration [br]in Western Australia.
0:14:42.179,0:14:46.180
(George) "So if the government is saying,[br]no, it's against our policy
0:14:46.180,0:14:49.630
why pursue it?[br]Why not just go away?"
0:14:51.039,0:14:57.569
(Pentz) "Because the idea [br]of an international repository
0:14:57.569,0:15:02.723
and the benefits [br]it will bring the world is real.
0:15:02.723,0:15:12.073
We think we have begun to see how we[br]could put the genie back into the bottle
0:15:12.073,0:15:21.468
and, you know, ideas [br]of this size ... don't go away."
0:15:23.208,0:15:28.108
♪ (music) ♪
0:15:30.768,0:15:36.078
From Seattle, Pentz and Stoll [br]are on the move across the continent.
0:15:36.078,0:15:39.638
"I have, I think received [br]a very good response
0:15:39.638,0:15:44.398
both in and outside of the government[br]to the concept that Pangea represents."
0:15:44.398,0:15:48.390
♪ (solemn music) ♪
0:16:05.879,0:16:10.769
"I wonder if these ...[br]kinds will work with Pangea."
0:16:10.769,0:16:14.886
In the 18 months since [br]Ralph Stoll's first visit to Washington
0:16:14.886,0:16:19.826
Pangea's briefed officials [br]in the US State Department, the Pentagon
0:16:19.826,0:16:23.415
the Department of Energy, [br]and presidential advisers
0:16:23.415,0:16:28.445
in two powerful arms of American security,[br]the National Security Council
0:16:28.445,0:16:32.685
and the National Security Agency.
0:16:32.685,0:16:36.970
And to reach the administration's [br]highest political levels, Pangea's hired
0:16:36.970,0:16:39.840
a big-hitter lobbyist, the man slated
0:16:39.840,0:16:44.909
to run Vice President Al Gore's [br]presidential campaign next year.
0:16:44.909,0:16:47.719
And Pangea's struck a chord [br]that shifts its focus
0:16:47.719,0:16:49.689
from a commercial venture,
0:16:49.689,0:16:53.169
to play to America's [br]strategic preoccupation
0:16:53.169,0:16:56.929
with growing stockpiles [br]of nuclear warheads.
0:16:56.929,0:17:00.699
"The world has a serious problem [br]with nuclear waste.
0:17:00.699,0:17:05.169
There are thousands and thousands [br]of tons of it, and thousands of tons more
0:17:05.169,0:17:12.328
coming on-line each year, so to speak, [br]as well as many thousands of tons
0:17:12.328,0:17:16.310
that are derivative [br]from former nuclear weapons programs,
0:17:16.310,0:17:22.560
and these have to be stored [br]safely and securely for thousands of years
0:17:22.560,0:17:25.040
and the world simply doesn't [br]have a solution to this
0:17:25.040,0:17:28.540
and as long as this waste [br]is stored in an imperfect fashion
0:17:28.540,0:17:32.540
which it is now, virtually everywhere, [br]it represents something of a threat."
0:17:33.413,0:17:36.133
Until the end of last year, [br]Jan Lodal was responsible
0:17:36.133,0:17:39.443
for running nuclear policy [br]for the Pentagon.
0:17:39.443,0:17:43.133
"I think that the American government [br]is likely to be very attracted
0:17:43.133,0:17:48.953
to the possibility of such a site, [br]and it will also see the attractiveness
0:17:48.953,0:17:51.273
of Australia's location."
0:17:52.629,0:17:58.429
At Washington's Georgetown University, [br]Pangea has another influential ally
0:17:58.429,0:18:02.429
in President Clinton's special adviser [br]for disarmament, who's concerned
0:18:02.429,0:18:06.429
about bombs or the raw material [br]falling into the hands
0:18:06.429,0:18:09.379
of rogue states and terrorist groups.
0:18:09.629,0:18:11.759
"In the United States, [br]we are very concerned
0:18:11.759,0:18:15.809
about what is generally called [br]in the literature the loose nuke problem.
0:18:15.809,0:18:18.529
We are working with the Russians [br]in a very cooperative way,
0:18:18.529,0:18:22.969
but still there are hundreds of tons, [br]when it only takes a few kilograms
0:18:22.969,0:18:26.458
to make a bomb, there are hundreds [br]of tons of this material
0:18:26.458,0:18:30.968
inadequately protected. [br]That's what we wanna take care of too.
0:18:31.213,0:18:34.093
♪ (western music) ♪
0:18:34.093,0:18:39.873
♪ On the trail you'll find me lopin',[br]while the spaces are wide open ♪
0:18:39.873,0:18:45.233
♪ in the land of the old AEC, yee-hoo ♪
0:18:45.233,0:18:50.733
♪ why, the cedar is attractive,[br]and the air is radioactive ♪
0:18:50.733,0:18:56.193
♪ oh, the Wild West is [br]where I want to be ♪
0:18:56.193,0:19:01.503
♪ 'mid the sagebrush and the cactus[br]I'll watch the fellas practice ♪
0:19:01.503,0:19:06.673
♪ droppin' bombs through [br]the clean desert breeze, ah-ha ♪
0:19:06.673,0:19:12.143
(bomb explosion)
0:19:15.087,0:19:18.117
If nuclear disarmament [br]was the peace dividend
0:19:18.117,0:19:20.947
from the end of the Cold War, [br]then the problem of dealing
0:19:20.947,0:19:25.697
with today's unwanted nuclear bombs [br]is the peace headache.
0:19:28.208,0:19:31.108
In pursuit of superiority [br]over the Russians,
0:19:31.108,0:19:36.228
America detonated 928 bombs [br]at the Nevada test site,
0:19:36.228,0:19:39.638
a hundred of them above ground.
0:19:39.638,0:19:43.978
The tests took 40 years to conduct, [br]but the combined time
0:19:43.978,0:19:48.588
for all those explosions [br]amounts to a mere 60 seconds
0:19:48.588,0:19:53.616
a minute of the most destructive power [br]created by humankind.
0:19:53.616,0:19:59.076
(explosions, wind, breaking glass, planes)
0:20:18.761,0:20:25.351
The Cold War legacy is [br]100,000 nuclear warheads around the world.
0:20:25.351,0:20:31.371
Disarmament talks call [br]for a reduction to 4,000 in 10 years.
0:20:31.371,0:20:33.949
Pangea reckons [br]it can help disarmament
0:20:33.949,0:20:37.459
by burying plutonium [br]from decommissioned warheads
0:20:37.459,0:20:41.299
a claim questioned by critics [br]who say nothing in the plans
0:20:41.299,0:20:44.159
ensure it can never be retrieved.
0:20:44.329,0:20:46.998
"They cloak it as [br]a nuclear non proliferation
0:20:46.998,0:20:50.088
and arms control proposal, [br]but when you look at the fine print
0:20:50.088,0:20:54.088
it really is, at this point in time[br]at least, a bail-out
0:20:54.088,0:20:57.558
for the nuclear industry and [br]for the plutonium industry in particular."
0:20:57.558,0:21:01.318
"These need not be inconsistent at all.
0:21:01.318,0:21:03.818
So I think that [br]it is a commercial enterprise
0:21:03.818,0:21:06.988
but the potential for [br]a very positive impact
0:21:06.988,0:21:09.408
on international security is very real."
0:21:09.408,0:21:12.358
"That's the rhetoric. [br]That's the broad brush
0:21:12.358,0:21:20.008
but the fine strokes indicate [br]that this spent fuel
0:21:20.008,0:21:23.388
will be put underground [br]on a retrievable basis
0:21:23.388,0:21:26.238
so that countries [br]that want to get it out, can."
0:21:26.238,0:21:30.238
"The fact that there may be [br]retrievability doesn't bother me
0:21:30.238,0:21:32.758
provided, of course,[br]the retrievability is
0:21:32.758,0:21:36.008
something that were very easily [br]monitored and prevented
0:21:36.008,0:21:38.708
if the international community [br]wished to prevent it
0:21:38.708,0:21:40.738
and if you had [br]a remote site in Australia,
0:21:40.738,0:21:42.588
I think you could assure that."
0:21:50.511,0:21:53.541
Fifty kilometres from [br]the Nevada test site
0:21:53.541,0:21:57.851
lies Yucca Mountain, [br]and a stark reminder that America
0:21:57.851,0:22:00.932
like the rest of the world, [br]has a growing problem
0:22:00.932,0:22:02.962
with commercial waste.
0:22:02.962,0:22:07.902
10,000 tons is created globally each year.
0:22:07.902,0:22:11.562
"The alternative is the stuff [br]right now sitting in swimming pools
0:22:11.562,0:22:15.782
and the basement of power plants [br]in metropolitan areas.
0:22:15.782,0:22:18.362
What's that going to do [br]to our future generations?
0:22:18.362,0:22:20.622
We can't make this stuff go away."
0:22:20.622,0:22:26.202
Like Pangea, Jim Niggemeyer believes [br]the answer lies beneath his feet.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Jim Niggemeyer, Yucca Mountain Project:[br]So for me, this I think is safe for hundreds of thousands of years. I don't see any other alternative that gets us beyond tens of years.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]Fifteen kilometres of tunnel lie inside Yucca Mountain. It represents America's and the world's best bet yet for a nuclear waste dump. But it's not a good bet at all.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
The Yucca Mountain project's cost the US $10 billion so far -- and it will be at least two years before the US government decides whether it's safe to go ahead.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
The people of Nevada have already decided -- they don't want it. But they know they're up against powerful nuclear interests.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Senator Harry Reid, Democrat, Nevada:[br]They do it in a number of ways. One is through fear and the distribution of that information, false information. What they do is say we need to get it outta here, and then everybody here'll be safe. And so that's the game they've played, and they've done a good job. They have done a good job with their government relations work here in Washington, they've got the best lobbyist money can buy.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]If the nuclear industry does get its way -- this is what an underground nuclear repository would look like. Kilometres of tunnels containing steel and concrete canisters -- radiating heat for hundreds of years; their contents deadly for tens of thousands of years.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And if the Americans have problems finding a place for their nuclear waste -- imagine the problems across the Atlantic.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Europe's denser population and smaller land mass have left the problem of getting rid of waste from nuclear power stations mired in political, social and scientific rows.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Nowhere more so than Britain - where a decade-long search for an underground waste dump has collapsed in utter failure after costing half a billion dollars.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Prof. Andy Blowers, Radioactive Waste Management Committee:[br]Well in one sense, there is some urgency, 'cause I think it would be true to say that to do nothing is not an option at the present time because wastes are accumulating in every country.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]A member of the British government's radioactive waste management committee, Professor Andy Blowers brings a critical eye to bear on the nation's nuclear industry.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Prof. Andy Blowers, Radioactive Waste Management Committee:[br]On the other hand, the kind of urgency that the industry puts forward, I think, is an urgency that is backing their own particular interests. They do need a solution to this intractable problem of nuclear waste. If they get the solution which appears to be acceptable, then that. to a high degree, will underpin the future of the nuclear industry as they perceive it.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Jim Voss, General Manager, Pangea:[br]We're not motivated by providing the opportunity for new nuclear plants in the future. We're motivated by providing a solution to the problems that are there today.[br]Q: And yet if you do provide a solution to the problems that are there today, the problem of nuclear waste...[br]A: Yes...[br]Q: You end up do you not, justifying the continued existence of the nuclear industry?[br]A: Under some circumstances one could interpret that. Remember that our...[br]Q: One suspects the nuclear industry will interpret it exactly that way.[br]A: They can interpret it as they like.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]Behind the nuclear industry's sense of urgency lies a enterprise situated in Britain's beautiful Lake district in Cumbria.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It's called Sellafield.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It's owned by BNFL, British Nuclear Fuels, one of the world's most powerful commercial nuclear conglomerates, and it has only one shareholder -- the British government, and its BNFL that's behind the Pangea.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
David Bonser, British Nuclear Fuel Ltd:[br]BNFL have looked at a number of different ideas and thoughts about how to deal with nuclear waste, and this Pangea concept in my view is the strongest I've seen. It's technically extremely well founded and has a very good and explainable safety case. I think those things are extremely important. Of course the real unknown is whether that will be accepted and welcomed once it's been explained and properly debated.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]BNFL's got a problem. After America, Britain has the largest stockpile of high-level radioactive waste in the world.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It sits quietly in canisters beneath the water -- cooling down for years before it can be touched.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
What's more, it's not just British waste - a big part of BNFL's business is reprocessing nuclear fuel rods from power stations in other parts of the world. But reprocessing produces radioactive waste, too -- and BNFL's customers around the world don't know what to do with their waste either.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
David Bonser, British Nuclear Fuels Ltd:[br]Some of those customers will look for an international repository rather than a national repository and so we feel that where there's a unique and potentially very valuable solution to what is a worldwide problem that as a global nuclear company we would wish to be involved in that.[br]Q: So in no case would British nuclear waste end up in a repository in Australia?[br]A: Well of course in the very long term, that's a matter for government policy rather than a commercial company, and we will always work within the UK government policy.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]On the River Esk, a few kilometres south of Sellafield, Martin Forwood checks radiation levels.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
The plant's reputation for radioactive leaks followed by cover-ups and allegations of leukemia clusters and pollution of the Irish Sea have spawned deep mistrust amongst environmentalists and local opposition groups.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Martin Forwood, Cumbrians Opposed to Radioactive Environment:[br]They haven't changed at all. They're still the murky deceitful company they always were.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
David Bonser, British Nuclear Fuels Ltd:[br]We need to build confidence, we need to build trust. We'll accept we've made mistakes and try to put them right. We operate in a number of different countries on a number of different sites and we try to adopt that open approach towards what we do wherever we operate, and we would do just the same in Australia.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]Martin Forwood, like most British environmentalists, believe BNFL should abandon plans for underground dumps and be forced to keep its waste on site until safer ways are found to deal with it.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Martin Forwood, Cumbrians Opposed to Radioactive Environment:[br]The industry's option which is to push it underground, very much out-of-site, out-of-mind, has so many flaws in it that it would be crassly wrong, I believe, on behalf of future generations to allow that to go ahead. The second point -- I think I've already mentioned that it would not be right, it would be immoral, in our view, to land a country -- let's say Australia, with everybody else's waste problems. That would be wrong.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]To London, where BNFL's woes have not endeared it to its owner, the British government.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
The latest investigation into radioactive waste -- a select committee of the House of Lords -- concluded last month that underground repositories are still the best bet.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Lord Tombs, House of Lords:[br]But since it will take 24 years even to open a deep geological disposal, you need to start now, because procrastination is the thief of time, and that 24 years can stretch into 50, 60, sometime, never, and it's a problem of such magnitude that it has to be tackled.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]Lord Tombs believes Britain will have to dispose of its own waste at home -- but says BNFL has every right to explore the Pangea idea for other countries' wastes.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Lord Tombs, House of Lords:[br]Well it could well be because there are nuclear reactors in the far east for which may provide a market for Australia. I'm not qualified to comment on that. All I'm saying is I don't think the UK's a very good prospect for the reasons I've outlined.[br]Q: Do you think perhaps those a little politically insensitive -- the government owned body in Britain...[br]A: ...Not at all...[br]Q: ...Should be investigating in Australia?[br]A: No I would put it in a way which may, you may not appreciate. I would say that they have enormous expertise which Australia doesn't, and by helping Australia to develop possibilities that they're actually helping Australia, which I'm all in favour of.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]Whether BNFL is doing Australia a favour with its Pangea proposal is a moot point.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Pangea's backers say a mining state like Western Australia already has the expertise to build a port, a railway line into the desert and the catacomb to handle the waste. Investments that would give the state an economic shot in the arm -- a $6 billion jolt in start-up costs alone -- $200 billion to Australia over 40 years.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Pangea chose one of the Liberal Party's favoured economic modellers to assess its figures.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Jim Voss, General Manager, Pangea:[br]Access Economics has estimated that this leads to about a 1 per cent increase in the gross domestic product and that brings another 50,000 jobs just from economic development, economic stimulation.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Senator Nick Minchin, Minister for Industry and Resources:[br]I mean you might as well suggest that Australia take the world's prison population -- you know we've got plenty of space, why not build a great big prison in Alice Springs and take all the world's prisoners? Well you know that's, that's ridiculous. So is this proposal.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Dr. Carmen Lawrence, MP for Fremantle, Labor:[br]The amount of money being talked about is mind boggling, and it might be in the future -- particularly if there are further economic problems flying out of what's happened in Asia that some Australian government somewhere might say 'Well let's have a look at this'.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]Jobs and profits are one thing -- the politics of the nuclear debate another thing entirely.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
The Government's already faced with the passions aroused by the go-aheads for the Jabiluka and Beverley uranium mines, by its own search for a dump for Australia's low-level and intermediate nuclear waste, and by plans for a new nuclear research reactor at Sydney's Lucas Heights. To add Pangea to the menu would seem cause political indigestion.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Senator Nick Minchin, Minister for Industry & Resources:[br]Q: Is your policy determined on the science of the matter, the environmental issues of the matter, or the simple politics of it?[br]A: Well it's a combination. I mean the position of the Australian community is critical and as I say, I don't think there's any basis on which the community is prepared to accept this.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]But Pangea's been at work on this area too.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
While proposals to replace the old Lucas Heights reactor are causing controversy, Pangea believes Australian antagonism to nuclear issues is not as deep rooted as it seems.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]Over 18 months, Pangea's spent a quarter of a million dollars on polling by the Liberal Party's own pollster Mark Textor whose report warns Pangea that most Australians are ill-informed and afraid of nuclear issues. But crucially, the report goes on to say: "as long as people's safety concerns can be satisfied, and we cannot over-emphasise the importance of the magnitude...of this task," people could see the benefits of a nuclear waste dump.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Jim Voss, General Manager, Pangea:[br]There's about 35 per cent of the populous believes that Pangea may well be in the national interest. A very solid 25-28 per cent are absolutely convinced that it wouldn't be in the nation's best interest. The group in the middle are asking the fundamental question of why? Why dispose of this material? Why now? Why Australia?
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Senator Nick Minchin, Minister for Industry & Resources:[br]I've, as you know, been involved in the professional side of the Liberal Party for 14 years. I did a lot of polling myself. I'd have to say I know all the tricks of the trade and I know you can get any result you like depending on the way you ask the question
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Footage - Pangea advertisement:[br]"There's no safer place in the world to make the world a safer place"
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]For now, Pangea's advertising campaign is on hold; plans to start field studies this year are postponed, but with so much money behind it, Pangea and those who support it believe time can be used to advantage.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Footage -- Pangea advertisement:[br]"...And a kilometre under a remote dessert in Australia is a gigantic non-porous rock that hasn't moved for millions of years, and won't for millions more."
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Prof. Brian Anderson, Australian National University:[br]I certainly believe there's a chance for the proposal to get off the ground. I'm not sure of the time scale, but this is a problem that's going to be with us for a very very long time and you know -- governments change and, and politicians, Ministers change and our relationships with other countries change so to imagine that we could continue to maintain an attitude that we're not even going to look at the proposal -- I don't think that's sustainable.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Dr. Carmen Lawrence, MP for Fremantle, Labor:[br]If any illustration was needed of the fact that you can't dispose safely of waste -- it's the Pangea proposal. I've actually learned of this proposal in some detail. I made it my business to find out about it. They are serious, they are well-funded,...they're people who've worked around the mining industry for a very long time and I think it would be foolish of anybody -- government or people such as me opposed to what they're proposing to underestimate their their long term commitment to this proposal.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]Faced with closed doors at a federal level, Pangea's strategy has focused on Perth, where it thinks political opposition may be softer and divisions may exist.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
While no member of the West Australian government would speak to Four Corners, Premier Richard Court recently ruled out the Pangea proposal -- though in 1994 he did support a national dump for low and medium-level waste in the state's gold fields.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Though the Resources Minister also rejects Pangea -- the company thinks the state is nevertheless sending mixed signals.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Colin Barnett, WA Resources Development Minister(26 March 1999):[br]I can see a scenario developing in future where countries that sell uranium will share some of the obligations for disposing of the waste but that in the first instance is an issue for the Australian government, and I think Australia as a signatory to the non-proliferation treaty needs to be part of the international debate about uranium.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Jim Voss, General Manager, Pangea:[br]Q: Are there doors open? Is there interest?[br]A: I don't think overtly there is or there is any evidence there is not. There's a long educational process that would have to be done before we'd be, we'd know whether there really are doors open.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Senator Nick Minchin, Minister for Industry & Resources:[br]The only way this could advance, in fact is if a state government decided that it would like to entertain this proposition and grant the relevant state approvals for such a project to proceed. But it's not going to go anywhere without the Commonwealth authorising the importation of the materials.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Jim Voss, General Manager, Pangea:[br]Q: Senator Minchin has said to us,[br]A: Mmm....[br]Q: ...To Four Corners -- we will not become a dumping ground for the world's nuclear waste.[br]A: Mmm-hmm.[br]Q: Premier Court has said We don't want to be the dump for other countries' waste.[br]A: Mmm-hmm.[br]Q: Now those seem pretty clear policies don't they?[br]A: Yes.[br]Q: Do you see any door open at all under those circumstances?[br]A: Taken at face value, those words would say absolutely there's no door open.[br]Q: So why not pack up and go away under those circumstances?[br]A: It's as I said to you a moment ago, the, if you, you have to turn this on it's ear. If they've said yes today, would it be any more meaningful to us in the long term? If our board and our investors would like us to move forward and to try to turn a no into a yes on a bipartisan basis, then that's what we'll do.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]Ten days ago, Pangea representatives from Britain and the United States flew in to Melbourne for a two-day strategy meeting, while last week in Perth -- Pangea hosted a dozen Australian and international scientists for a first private meeting of its scientific review board.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Jim Voss, General Manager, Pangea:[br]Q: So how much more money, how much more time are you prepared to put into this before you actually have to make a decision?[br]A: Well first up that's not my decision, that's, that's the decision of the board of directors.[br]Q: Mmm, but you speak for Pangea -- you must know what the view is?[br]A: In the broader sense the sometime during this calendar year there will be a decision as to what course of action to take next -- which country, which course, which strategy.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]Pangea's strategy has brought about its own undoing, opening it to the same accusations of secrecy that has dogged the nuclear industry from birth.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But succeed or fail, it's an uncomfortable reminder that Australia is, after all, a part of the nuclear world and its problems.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
David Pentz, Chairman, Pangea:[br]At the present moment Australia provides a significant quantity of uranium to the world. If in fact there is a repository it's kind of like womb to tomb. So to say that Australia is not a nuclear power state is correct right, but it is in the nuclear fuel cycle.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Senator Nick Minchin, Minister for Industry and Resources:[br]It does not then follow that Australia is required to receive back all that waste material, and I really do think countries have to take a very responsible approach when they enter into the business of generating their electricity by nuclear power.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Dr. Carmen Lawrence, MP for Fremantle, Labor:[br]Australia is putting itself I think, in a difficult position by continuing to expand the nuclear industry by as the current government is doing expanding the mining of uranium in this country. We are in a sense placing ourselves in some position of obligation to the disposal of those wastes.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Peter George:[br]If it fails in Australia, Pangea says it'll turn its focus to Argentina.
9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But it's the unique combination of geology, political stability and international credentials that first brought Pangea to Australia -- credentials which have put Australia in the nuclear limelight and will continue to do so as concern about nuclear waste and nuclear disarmament grows into the next century.