WEBVTT

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Ladies and gentlemen, as Paul [said],

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my hobby, and at the same time
profession, is physics.

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And this is, for me,
a very lucky coincidence.

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And I think, as Democritus once said,

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I can also repeat now,

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that I would rather prefer
to discover one causal law

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than be King of Persia.

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And I am pretty sure
there is a lot of phenomena

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awaiting our discovery...

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Oh, let me know... Yeah, it's working.

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[Phenomena] which are occurring,
perhaps, even now, here,

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but we do not recognize them.

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And I have my personal proof for that,

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at least it is convincing [to] me.

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That was an astonishment
I experienced once,

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when working at this nice,
and even cozy accelerator,

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when a friend of mine
came to my office, and...

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(Phone rings twice)

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And something like that happened,
and then he [said],

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"Please pick it up,
because this is an external call."

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So I excused [myself] for a moment,

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and then it was, indeed, an external call.

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And then I asked him,
"How do you know that?"

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And this was the explanation.

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This was the external call...
(Phone rings twice)

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And this is an internal call.
(Phone rings once)

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(Laughter)

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Many of you are also working
in institutions,

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you recognize that, perhaps.

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I [had been] working there for many years,

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in that office, and didn't realize that.

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(Laughter)

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And this was...

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I learned a good lesson of humility.

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A painful lesson for the researcher

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whose ambition is to [discover], say,

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less trivial things than that.

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(Laughter)

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So... (Laughter)

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But this also gave me a promise

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that there is a chance
to discover something --

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(Laughter)

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[Something] I didn't notice till now.

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And today,
I would like to tell you a story

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more successful, for me, at least,

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about antimatter-based molecular imaging
of the whole human body.

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So, what do I mean by that?

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So I would like to tell you
about an idea, or invention.

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About a cylinder,

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a device which [will] one day
perhaps surround a person.

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And with that device, I hope,
we will be able, in the future,

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to make tomographic images,

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non-invasive pictures of the human body,

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of the whole human body.

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So perhaps a less scientific topic

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of my presentation today could be:

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"How I have reinvented the cylinder."

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But now, after you laughed truly

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when Charles Crawford
was showing a formula,

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I think I'm obliged now to give a lesson,

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before we go farther
off solid-state physics,

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atomic physics, nuclear physics,

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and then, at the end, particle physics.

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That's all we need to understand
the rest of the talk.

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(Laughter)

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But... (Laughter)

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Then, [looking at] some of you,

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I see colleagues from my institute [here],

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younger, [who] have perhaps
already attended such lectures.

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I will [do] this in a way I'm sure
none of you have [been] shown,

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because I would like to start from --

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I should point it here --

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from the bush I made
a photo of in my garden.

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So, as a researcher,
you might put [your] head inside it,

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and then you recognize
there is a lot of fruits there.

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But with a scope,
perhaps you could go farther.

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And now, let us skip molecular physics.

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These fruits are surely from molecules,

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and the molecules are from atoms.

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(Laughter)

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(Applause)

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So, now...(Applause)

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Now we are already
at atomic physics, and this is, now --

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(Laughter)

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[It's] very important to recognize that --

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and this is really important
for the rest of the talk --

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that this is not to scale,
and I could not --

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(Laughter)

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[I] could not plot it to scale,

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because the nucleus is much smaller,

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in comparison to the size of the atom.

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And that is why some of the particles

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can just traverse through
the human body, or through matter,

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if they are energetic enough.

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And then, in the next [figure],

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let us go to nuclear physics.

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This is the nucleus.

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And then, quickly, to particle physics.

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The nucleus is [composed of] quarks.

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And now, going back
to the word "antimatter,"

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now [we have] really come to the point.

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There are also quarks and anti-quarks.

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So, they are the objects
which I am really studying

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in my daily life.

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[They] are called mesons,
not important for this talk,

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but I am doing that
so I had to mention that.

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(Laughter)

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And mesons are built
out of matter and antimatter.

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So they only live [a very short time].

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If that quark and anti-quark
touch each other,

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it disappears in the form of energy.

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And now, for the imaging,
we need something similar.

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But we cannot have a meson
in the laboratory,

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because it lives [only] for a while,

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not worth mentioning.

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But there is another source of antimatter
that we [do] have in the laboratories,

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in most nuclear physics laboratories,

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which [are] the isotopes,

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the atoms, or substances,
like fluorine, like oxygen,

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but which can radioactively decay.

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And this we all know.

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But there is one radioactive decay
which is very special.

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Which out of those three [types],

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Alpha, Beta and Gamma,

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Beta is the most mysterious one,
or the most mystic.

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And this is like that.

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One of the nucleons inside the nucleus,

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decays, as it was shown here.

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Oh, let me come back.

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To an anti-electron, it is e+ here.

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It's not an electron,
but an anti-electron.

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The electron has a "minus."

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And this is an anti-electron.

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This is something which,

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if it touched the electron,

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then annihilation [would] occur,

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and you would have energy.

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So now, which is already used
in the world,

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you can cheat a little,

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and make, for example, radioactive sugar,

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instead of usual sugar.

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The radioactive sugar is just sugar,

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made, for example, with fluorine,

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but instead of usual fluorine,

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you take radioactive fluorine,

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which then emits positrons,

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those anti-electrons.

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And you [can] administer that
to the patient

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like you see in that picture.

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And then, all the processes with the sugar

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which occur in the body,

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are exactly the same
as with the usual sugar,

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but from time to time you have a signal

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from the interior of the body,

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because this decay happens there.

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And now, if you look --

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If this decay happens somewhere,

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you have this anti-electron.

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If it touches the electron --

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we are in the first order,

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from electrons and those nuclei,
nothing else.

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So if it touches this electron,

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then they annihilate,
because it was matter and antimatter.

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And those two photons,

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two gamma quanta,

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are flying in a line,
apart from each other.

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And they are energetic,

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energetic enough to go through atoms.

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So they can go outside of the body.

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And now, we are close
to the explanation of that word.

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So we had a positron,

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we had emission,

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and now we have detectors,

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so we have Positron Emission Tomography,

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with those detectors.

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Now it's enough to put [detectors]
around the human body,

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which are capable of detecting
those gamma quanta.

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And you can [take] a picture
of the interior of the body,

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or [first of all],
you can [take] a picture

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of where those sugars were distributed
around the organism.

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And now, you may wonder
how one can do that.

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I have an easy example, the simplest one.

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Let's assume [all] the sugar administered

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was just absorbed
in one place in the brain.

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Let's say that that [unfortunate] person
had a [tumor],

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and this was absorbed
really point-like, in one place.

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Then, it's very easy to imagine
how you can [take] a picture

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of that brain, or that point,

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Because what we measure...
(Shutter sound)

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Let's say those points,
those blue rectangles, are detectors.

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Something which can register.

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OK, a bulb.

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If you put a current into the bulb,
then you see the light.

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If you put the light to the detectors,
you see the current.

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Shall I say, it's an anti-bulb.

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So what [do] we have? We...

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We [administered] a sugar,

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then that sugar is sometimes
decaying somewhere.

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In that case, it's always decaying here.

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And we measured the signal here and here.

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There is a lot of cables there.

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But we know it was here and here.

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So what we do is to plot a line.

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But we don't know [where]
this sugar was, along this line.

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But it's of course decaying
in different directions. (Shutter sound)

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So it's enough to have
two such lines, (Shutter sound)

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and you know the point.

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So now it's very easy to imagine

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that you can [take] such a picture
of the [whole] body.

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OK, it's not as easy
as I plot it now, but...

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(Laughter)

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But it's imaginable.

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And this is how a person sees that.

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So you put [them into a] plastic box,

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and then on the screen
you have [an image] of your brain.

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But now, what is the problem to be solved,

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or what is the challenge here.

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The challenge is that such devices
are very expensive,

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20 million Polish zlotys. That's one.

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So there is only a few of them in Poland.

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They are short.

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It means you cannot make
an image of the whole person.

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As you saw in this picture,

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there are short rings around the patient.

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And now, there is one more problem,
or a challenge.

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How to improve
the sharpness of that image?

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And now, please look at that picture here.

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This is a picture
that I would like to [use] to [explain]

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the problem with the smearing
of the image.

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So, let's say this anti-electron

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touched an electron here --
we had two photons,

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two gamma quanta,
and they react here and here.

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But we don't know this.

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We know only that it was somewhere
in the detector.

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Because we have here a cable,
and the signal from the detector.

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Ah, sorry.

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(Camera shutter sounds)

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Sorry.

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So now, what we can plot

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is the line from the middle
of the detector

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to the middle of the detector.

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So we make a mistake.

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Because, in that case,
we know the true line is here,

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but we reconstruct that line.

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And this caused the smearing of the image.

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So now, there is one trivial way
to overcome this.

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The trivial way is to make these detectors
smaller and smaller,

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but then you increase the cost,

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because you increase
the number of the bulbs.

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And this is, now, the idea I had.

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Just, instead of making that,

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let's change the paradigm completely.

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Let's use a huge block
instead of small pieces.

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And let's try to find something out

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when the gamma heated the detector inside.

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And this is just the idea,
which is the direct transfer

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of the detectors we have
in that experiment.

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This is one of the experiments
I spent perhaps 15 years researching.

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And with those detectors
we were studying those mesons.

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And we were measuring --

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this is part of the accelerator --

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we were measuring the time

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[in which] particles
travel from there to here.

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This is nanoseconds, a very short time.

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But if you look at that --

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These were strips of plastic material

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which allowed to measure the particles.

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In a closer view,
it may be plotted like that.

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You have a strip of the material.

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If something hits it,
a particle, a gamma quantum,

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then there is a light inside,

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and if it is in the middle,

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then the time of the light signal
to that side,

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to this bulb, and to that bulb,
is the same.

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If it is closer to that --

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"PM" is not the abbreviation of my name,

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it is "photomultiplier."

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(Laughter)

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If it is closer to that,

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then this time is shorter,
this time is longer.

00:14:05.651 --> 00:14:07.369
So from the difference of times,

00:14:07.526 --> 00:14:11.088
you can define
when this gamma quantum really hit it.

00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:12.266
Very simple.

00:14:12.291 --> 00:14:16.035
This is used in all physics experiments,

00:14:16.060 --> 00:14:18.424
particle and nuclear physics experiments.

00:14:18.449 --> 00:14:22.680
And now, the only thing to [do was],

00:14:22.705 --> 00:14:26.017
how to make a tomograph [out of that].

00:14:26.173 --> 00:14:30.772
And then -- this is again something
like reinventing the circle,

00:14:31.460 --> 00:14:35.040
one can think of taking
this wall of those strips,

00:14:35.065 --> 00:14:37.741
and making a cylinder out of that.

00:14:38.929 --> 00:14:42.196
And now, you have those strips.

00:14:42.221 --> 00:14:43.971
You can put a bulb here, a bulb there,

00:14:43.996 --> 00:14:48.480
so you know when this gamma
from the human body hit, and in which way.

00:14:48.505 --> 00:14:51.021
You can put a patient here, inside.

00:14:51.046 --> 00:14:52.198
This can be large.

00:14:52.854 --> 00:14:56.323
The number of those photomultipliers,
of those bulbs,

00:14:56.573 --> 00:14:59.146
does not increase when you enlarge that.

00:14:59.171 --> 00:15:01.552
You may make this as large as you like.

00:15:02.067 --> 00:15:07.145
Even more, you can make more
of such cylinders.

00:15:07.255 --> 00:15:11.857
And then, you can increase the probability

00:15:11.882 --> 00:15:15.739
of detecting these gamma quanta.

00:15:17.771 --> 00:15:22.205
So now, the dream which we are trying
to realize with my colleagues,

00:15:22.230 --> 00:15:27.617
is to build such a tomograph,
which would allow for

00:15:27.642 --> 00:15:30.960
such molecular imaging
of the whole human body.

00:15:30.985 --> 00:15:32.359
Now it's clear.

00:15:32.595 --> 00:15:34.282
But now, what --

00:15:34.501 --> 00:15:35.501
(Beep)

00:15:35.611 --> 00:15:36.798
What is with that?

00:15:37.829 --> 00:15:39.319
(Phone rings twice)

00:15:39.428 --> 00:15:41.528
Now, you may believe it or not,

00:15:41.658 --> 00:15:44.192
I conceived [of] that cylinder

00:15:44.217 --> 00:15:48.334
out of that detector which you saw.

00:15:48.801 --> 00:15:53.406
But then, I realized that I was working
in collaboration with

00:15:53.431 --> 00:15:55.915
a laboratory who has such a cylinder.

00:15:56.260 --> 00:15:57.728
This is the one in Italy.

00:15:57.978 --> 00:16:00.940
4 meters large, with scintillators,
with those materials,

00:16:00.965 --> 00:16:02.827
and we are [doing] experiments there.

00:16:03.437 --> 00:16:06.608
Then, when preparing this talk...

00:16:07.374 --> 00:16:08.921
Oh, that again.
(Phone rings once)

00:16:12.101 --> 00:16:15.420
I realized that I was working
on an experiment

00:16:15.445 --> 00:16:18.929
which had such a huge barrel
of scintillator.

00:16:19.575 --> 00:16:21.689
And I am working on another experiment,

00:16:21.714 --> 00:16:23.263
which when you look inside,

00:16:23.560 --> 00:16:26.200
there is again a barrel of scintillator.

00:16:26.607 --> 00:16:30.872
So, you may [see] here
how large those barrels are.

00:16:31.001 --> 00:16:33.575
A person could even walk inside,
if this [worked].

00:16:34.716 --> 00:16:38.659
So there is a chance
to really [make] such a tomograph,

00:16:38.861 --> 00:16:41.844
especially that such technology
is used nowadays,

00:16:41.869 --> 00:16:43.768
in particle and nuclear physics.

00:16:44.487 --> 00:16:47.600
And I hope, like Rafał told us,

00:16:47.625 --> 00:16:49.852
that somebody will take
his message seriously,

00:16:50.243 --> 00:16:55.364
and somebody clever
will just make this tomograph

00:16:55.389 --> 00:16:58.059
in some groups which are rich enough

00:16:58.084 --> 00:17:00.092
to build all those bulbs, and so on.

00:17:00.295 --> 00:17:01.576
But independently,

00:17:01.952 --> 00:17:05.779
I and my colleagues
are trying to do that here in Cracow.

00:17:06.030 --> 00:17:07.430
And then...

00:17:08.297 --> 00:17:10.117
(Phone rings twice)

00:17:10.453 --> 00:17:13.654
This is just to point
to the end of my talk.

00:17:13.679 --> 00:17:14.717
Thank you very much.

00:17:14.742 --> 00:17:17.997
(Applause)