(Music)
(Everett L Shostrom)Psychotherapy is such a personal and private process
that it is a mystery to most people who have never gone through it
The following series is a unique effort that allows us to sit in
on what is ordinarily a very private therapeutic experience.
An actual patient was courageous enough and considerate enough
to allow herself to be photographed
while actually engaged in therapy with three different therapists.
Thus we're allowed the privilege of seeing and feeling
feeling what really transpires.
A film series like this,
in which three therapists distinguished by their different orientations
share their therapeutic endeavors has never been made before.
We therefore wish to express our gratitude to Gloria, the patient,
and to her therapists for allowing us to share in their therapeutic adventure
This series will be divided into three separate films.
in the first film we see doctor Carl Rogers founder of client-centered therapy
interviewing Gloria.
In film number two, Dr. Frederick Perls, founder of Gestalt therapy
is working with her
and in film number three Dr. Albert Ellis,
founder of rational-emotive therapy is our therapist
each therapist will first describe his system of therapy briefly.
He will then demonstrate his work with Gloria
and then he will comment briefly on his work
Now here is Dr. Carl Rogers.
(Carl Rogers) From my own years of therapeutic experience,
I have come to feel that if I can create the proper climate,
the proper relationship, the proper conditions,
a process of therapeutic movement will almost inevitably occur in my client.
You may ask: 'What is this climate? What are these conditions?
'Will they exist in the interview with the woman I am about to talk with,
'and whom I have never seen before?'
Let me try to describe very briefly what these conditions are as I see them.
First of all, one question is, can I be real in the relationship?
This has come to have an increasing amount of importance to me over the years.
I feel that genuineness is another way of describing
the quality I would like to have.
I like the term 'congruent', by which. I mean that what I am experiencing inside
is present in my awareness and comes out through my communication.
In a sense, when I have this quality, I am all in one piece in the relationship.
There is another word that describes it for me.
I feel that in the relationship, I would like to have a 'transparency.'
I would be quite willing for my client to see all the way through me,
that there would be nothing, nothing hidden.
And when lam real in this fashion that I'm trying to describe,
then I know that my own feelings will often bubble up into awareness
and be expressed,
but be expressed in ways that won't impose themselves on my client.
Then the second question I would have is, will I find myself prizing this person,
caring for this person?
I certainly don't want to pretend a caring that I don't feel.
In fact, if I dislike my client persistently,
I feel it is better, that I should express it.
But I know that the process of therapy is much more likely to occur
and constructive change is much more likely
if I feel a real spontaneous prizing of this individual with whom I'm working,
a prizing of this person as a separate individual.
You can call that quality acceptance, you can call it caring,
you can call it a non-possessive love if you wish.
I think any of those terms tend to describe it.
I know that the relationship will prove more constructive if it's present.
Then the third quality:
will I be able to understand the inner world of this individual
from the inside?
And then will I be able to see it through her eyes?
Will I be able to be sufficiently sensitive
to move around inside the world of her feelings
so that I know what it feels like to be her,
so that I can sense not only the surface meanings,
but some of the meanings that lie somewhat underneath the surface.
I know that if I can let myself sensitively and accurately
enter into her world of experience,
then change and therapeutic movement are much more likely.
Well, suppose I am fortunate
and that I do experience some of these attitudes
in the relationship, what then?
Well, then a variety of things are likely to happen.
Both from my clinical experience and from our research investigations
we find that if attitudes of the sorts that I have described are present,
then quite a number of things will happen.
She'll explore some of her feelings and attitudes more deeply.
She is likely to discover some hidden aspects of herself
that she wasn't aware of previously.
Feeling herself prized by me,
it is quite possible she'll come to prize herself more.
Feeling that some of her meanings are understood by me,
then she can more readily perhaps listen to herself,
listen to what is going on within her own experience,
listen to some of the meanings she hasn't been able to catch before.
And perhaps if she senses realness in me,
she'll be able to be a little more real within herself.
I suspect there will be a change in the manner of her expression,
at least this has been my experience in other instances.
From being rather remote from her experiencing,
remote from what is going on within her,
it's possible that she'll move toward more immediacy of experiencing,
that she will be able to sense and express what's going on in her
in the immediate moment
From being disapproving of herself, it is quite possible
she will move toward a greater degree of acceptance of herself.
From somewhat of a fear of relating,
she may move toward being able to relate more directly
and to encounter me more directly.
From construing life in somewhat rigid black and white patterns,'
she may move toward more tentative ways of construing her experience
and of seeing the meanings in it.
From a locus of evaluation which is outside of herself,
it is quite possible she will move toward recognizing
a greater capacity within herself for making judgments and drawing conclusions.
So those are the some of -- those are some of the changes that we have.
If I have any success in creating
the kind of conditions that I described initially,
then we may be able to see some of these changes in this client
even though I know in advance that our contact is going to be very brief. /////
good morning I'm curious you must be
Barry yes I am I'm service chair no we
have half an hour together and I really
don't know what we'll be able to make of
it but I hope we can make something else
be glad to know whatever concerns you
well I'm right now I'm nervous but I
feel more comfortable the way you're
talking in a low voice oh I don't feel
like you'll be so harsh on me but um I
hear the tremor in your voice ooh a the
main thing I want to talk to you about
is stuff I'm just newly divorced and I
had gone in therapy before and I felt
comfortable when I left and all of a
sudden now the biggest change is
adjusting to my single life and one of
the things that bother me the most is
especially manhe's and having men to the
house and how it affects the children
and the biggest thing I want the same
keeps coming to my mind I want to tell
you about yes I have a daughter 9 who at
one time I felt I had a lot of emotional
problems I wish I could stop shaking and
I real conscious of things affecting her
I don't want her to get upset I don't
want to shock her I want so bad for her
to accept me and will really open with
each other especially about sex and the
other day she saw a girl that was saving
the pregnant and she asked me all about
teen girls get pregnant if they're
single and the conversation was fine and
I wasn't underneath at all with her
until she asked me if I'd ever made love
to a man since I've left her daddy and I
lied to her and ever since that it keeps
coming up to my mind cuz I feel so
guilty lying there there cuz I never
mind
wanted to trust me and I want I almost
want an answer from you I want you to
tell me if it will affect Iran if I told
her the truth or would and it is
concerned about her and the fact that
you really aren't that this open
relationship that has existed between
you and I you feel it kind of yes I feel
like I have to be on guard about that
because I didn't when I was a little
girl when I first found out my mother
father made love it was dirty and
terrible and I didn't I didn't like her
anymore
for a while and I don't want to lie to
pan me either and I don't know
sure wish I could give you the answer as
to what you should tell her all the
things you're going to say that because
what you really want is an answer I want
to especially know if it would affect
her if I was completely honest and open
with her or if it would affect her
because I lied I feel like it's bound to
make a strain because I lied to her
because she'll suspect that or she will
know something's not quite right fine
she'll distrust me yes and also I
thought would she what about when she
gets a little older and she finds
herself in touchy situation she probably
wouldn't want to get it to me because
she thinks I'm so good and so sweet and
yet I'm afraid she could think I'm
really a a devil and I want so bad for
it except me I don't know how much a
learner can take and we would both
alternatives concern you but you might
think you're too good or better than you
really are
yes she might think that you're worse
than you are not worse than I am
I don't know she can accept me the way I
I think I paint a picture that I'm all
sweet and motherly and I'm not ashamed
of my shady side too
it really cuts a little deeper if she
really knew you would she could she
accept you this is what I don't know yes
I don't want to turn away from me I
don't even know how I feel about it
because there are times when I feel so
guilty like when I have the wheel over I
even try to make a special setup so that
if I were ever along with them the
children would never catch me and that
sort of thing because I'm worried about
it and yet I also know I have these
desires let's click here it isn't only
her problem or the relationship with her
it's in you as well my guilt oh yeah I
forgive um so what can I accept myself
as doing yes and you realize that you
said observed subterfuges so as to make
sure that that you're not caught or
something you realize that you are
acting from guilt is it yes I don't like
the way I would like to feel comfortable
with whatever I do if I choose not to
tell family the truth to feel
comfortable that she can't handle it and
they don't I want to be honest and yet I
feel there are some areas but I don't
even accept if you can't accept them in
yourself how could you possibly be
comfortable and telling them to her
right and yet did you say you do have
these desires and you do have your
feelings but but you don't feel good
about
and I thought you're just gonna sit
there and let me experiment laughs I
want more I want you to help me get rid
of my guilt feeling if I can get rid of
my guilt feeling about lying or going to
bed with a single man any of that just
so I can feel more comfortable and I
guess I'd like to say no I don't want to
let's just steal in your feelings but on
the other hand I also feel that this is
the kind of very private thing that I
couldn't possibly answer for you that I
assure is anything we'll try to help you
work toward your own answer I don't know
whether that makes any sense to you but
I mean it well I appreciate you saying
that you sound like you mean it but I
don't know where to go
I don't begin to know where to go I
thought that I'd pretty well worked over
most of my guilt and now that this is
coming up I'm disappointed in myself
I really am I want I like it when I feel
that no matter what I do even if it's
against my own morals or my upbringing
but I can still feel good about me
and now I don't like there's a girl at
work who sort of mothers me and she just
she I think she thinks I'm all sweet and
I sure don't want to show my more ornery
devilish side with her I want to be
sweet and it's so hard for me to to
selfie so nil again it's so
disappointing yeah I get the
disappointment that here a lot of these
things you thought you'd work through
and now the guilts and a feeling that
only a part of you is acceptable to
anybody else yeah that keeps coming out
I guess I could catch the real deep
puzzlement that you feel as to what the
hell shall I do yes and you know what I
can find doctor is that everything I
start to do that I impulse it seems
natural to tell Pierre or to go out on a
day or something
uncomfortable until I think how I was
affected as a child and the minute that
comes up and I'm all haywire like I want
to be a good mother so bad and I feel
like I have a good mother but then
there's those little exceptions like my
guilts with working I want to work and
it's so fun having extra money I like to
work nice the minute I think I'm not
being real good to the children are
giving them enough time then I start
feeling guilty again then that's when I
get some what do they call it a double
line that's just what it feels like I
want to do this and it feels right but
after all I'm not being a good mother
and I want to be both
I'm coming more and more aware of what a
perfectionist I am that's what it seems
like I want to be so perfect you know I
want to become perfect in my standards
or not have that need anymore or I guess
I hear it a little differently that what
you want us to seem perfect but it means
a great matter of great importance to
you to be a good mother and you want to
seem to be a good mother even if some of
your actual feelings differ from them is
it okay yeah I feel like I'm saying that
no that is what I feel really I want to
approve of me always but my actions
won't let me I want to prove with me
I realize you alright let me understand
it the sound of your actions are kind of
outside of you you want to approve of
you but what you do somehow won't let
you approve of your site like I feel but
I could approve with myself regarding
for example my sex life it is the big
thing if I really fell in love the man
and I respected him and I adored him I
don't think I feel so guilty
going to bed with him I don't think I'd
have to make up any excuses to the
children because they could see my
natural caring form but when they have
the physical desire and I'll say over
why not
and I want to anyway then I feel guilty
afterwards I hate pleasing the kids I
don't like looking at myself and I
really enjoy it and this is what I mean
if the circumstances would be different
I don't think it's also guilty because I
feel right about it yeah I guess I hear
you saying if if what I was doing when I
went to bed with a man was really
genuine and full of love and respect and
so on I wouldn't feel guilty in relation
to Pam I wouldn't I really would be
comfortable about that so I said yes and
I know that sounds like I want a perfect
situation but that is how I feel and in
the meantime I can't stop these desires
I've tried that also I've tried saying
okay I don't like myself when I do that
so I would do it anymore but then I
resent the children I think why should
they stop me from doing what I want and
it's really not that bad
that I guess I heard just saying - that
wasn't only the
that I guess I heard you saying to them
isn't only the children you don't like
it as well honey it really isn't I'm
sure that I know that's it probably even
more so than I'm aware of that I all
love it so much when I pick it up in the
children then I can also moans in myself
somehow sometimes you kind of feel like
blaming in for the feelings you have and
why should they cut you off from a
normal sex life well a sex life I could
say not rule because there is something
about me that says that smell they don't
think to just go into sex because you
feel physically attractive or something
or a physical need so something about it
tells me that's not quite right anyway
it's akhil really the times you're
acting in ways that are not in occurred
with your own inner standards right
great but then we're also saying a
minute ago but to feel you can't help
that
yeah I wish I could that's it and I
can't now I feel like I can't control
myself as well as I could have before
for a specific reason now I can't I just
let go and I have there's too many
things I do wrong that I have to feel
guilty for and I sure don't like that
I want you very much to give me a direct
answer and I'm going to ask it and I
don't expect a direct answer but I want
to know do you feel that to me the most
important thing is to be open and honest
and if I can be able to notice with my
joy do you feel that it could handle
them if for example I could say to PME I
was I felt bad lying to the PME and I
want to tell you the truth now and if I
tell her the truth and she shocked at me
which she's upset but that could bother
her more I want to get rid of my job so
that will help me but I don't want to
put him on her okay he thought I could
hurt her I'm sorry I guess I'm sure this
will sound evasive to you but it seems
to me that perhaps the person you're not
being fully honest glib is you because I
was very much struck by the fact that
you were saying if I feel all right
about what I have done but it's going to
beg you the man or what if I really feel
all right about it then I don't have any
concern about what I would tell him or
all my relationships with me right all
right then I hear what you're saying
then all right then I want to work on I
want to work on accepting me them I want
to work on feeling all right about it
now that makes sense that that will come
natural and then I will have to worry
about him but when things don't seem so
wrong for me and I have an impostor
driven how can I accept that what you'd
like to do is to feel more accepting
toward yourself when you do things that
you feel are wrong right
I feel like like I'm saying yeah I feel
like you're going to say no why do you
think they're wrong and I have mixed
feelings there too to therapy I'll say
no look I know this is natural women
feel it sure we don't talk about a lot
socially so all women fill it in it's
very natural I've had sex for the last
11 years and of course going to want it
but I still think it's wrong unless
you're really truly in love with a man
and my body doesn't seem to agree that's
why I don't know how to accept it sounds
like a triangle to me doesn't it you
feel that I or therapists in general or
other people say it's alright it's
alright natural huh go ahead and I guess
you feel your body sort of lines up on
that side of the picture but something
in you says but I don't like it that way
not much it's really right
right
I have a hopeful sign those are all the
things I sorted for myself and I feel
the okay now what if you this is the
conflict and it's just being soluble and
therefore its focus and here you look to
me and I don't seem to give you any help
than what I am I really really can't
answer for me I have to figure it out
myself but I want you to guide me or
show me where to start or so it won't
look so hopeless I know I can keep
living with this conflict and I know
eventually things would work out but I
like feeling more comfortable with the
way I live
anything I meant is what is it you wish
I would say to you I wish you would say
to me
to be honest and take the risk that Pam
is going to accept me and I also have a
feeling if I could really risk it with
Pammy of all people that I'd be able to
see here's this little kid that can
accept me and under they know about that
if she really knows what a demon I am
and still loves me and accepts me it
seems like it would help me to accept me
more like it's really not that bad I
want you to say to go ahead and be
honest but I don't want any sponsor
berry but it would upset her that's
right I might be something you know yeah
you know very well what you'd like to do
in relationship you would like to be
yourself and you'd like to have her know
that you're not perfect and do things
that maybe even she wouldn't approval to
disapprove of to some degree yourself
but that somehow she would love you and
accept you as an imperfect person
like I wonder if my mother had been more
open with world maybe I would have had
such a narrow attitude about sex if I
would have thought that she could be you
know pretty sexy and corny and devilish
too but I would look at her as being
such a sweet mother than she could also
be the other side but she didn't talk
about that maybe that's where I got my
picture I don't know but I want Tami to
see me as a full woman but also accept
me you know it's not so I'm certain I
don't do you mean what I mean is you've
been sitting there telling me just what
you would like to do in that
relationship with him I would but I
don't quite take the risk of doing it
Leslie already tells me that yes I guess
one thing that I feel very keenly is
it's an awfully risky thing to live
maybe taking a chance on your
relationship with her taking a chance on
letting her know who you were really
even if I don't take a chance if I still
have an accepted buyer I'm never going
to sell it about it anyway if your love
and acceptance of you is based on a
false picture of you what the hell is
the good of that but I also feeling a
lot of responsibility with being a
mother
what Idol I don't want to feel like I've
caused any big traumas and the children
they don't like all that responsibility
that's what I don't like feeling it
could be my fault because that's what I
meant when I said life is risky to take
the responsibility for being a person
you would like to be with her is a
however responsibility it is a very
frightening the only way I look at it
two ways I like to see myself as being
so honest with the kids and really being
proud of myself though that no matter
what I told them or no matter how bad
they may think I was I was honest and
down deep it's going to be a much more
wholesome relationship and yet you know
I get jealous like when they're with
their daddy I feel he's more flip he's
not quite as real he's not quite as
honest but nevertheless they see a sweet
picture of their dad
you know mozell Phyllis tonight and I'm
envious of that too I want them to see
was just too sweet if they see him
I know he's not quite as well with them
so it seems like I've got to swap the
one for the other and I know this is
really what I want the most but I miss
some of that glory so feel I want them
to have just as nice a picture of me as
the head of their dad that is a little
funny
then maybe nine I'll have to be - I
think that's putting a little too strong
that's close I just bring me I know she
can have that literature of me if I were
honest decide that I do go I'm Luna
honored and dad anyway so I'm like you
do more things that they disapprove of
sounds are you really find it quite hard
to believe what they would really love
you if they knew that's right you know
that's exactly it before therapy
who she cares about need a picture of me
if I were honest the fact that I do go
on loan will honor their dad anyway
unlikely bill more things that said
disapproval so you really find it quite
hard to believe but they would really
love you if they knew you that's right
you know that's exactly it
before therapy I would have definitely
chosen the other area I'm going to get
respect remain no matter what even if I
have to lie
alright now I know that's not true and
I'm not positive
they'll truly accept me something tells
me they will I know diva but I'm not
positive
I'll agree sure I keep wanting this in
kind of a no-man's land of probably
shifting from one point of view to them
to another that boy I'd sure like
somebody to say that's right you go
ahead and do it yes that's why I get
encouraged when I read in a book from
somebody I respect and admire but this
is the right thing no matter what
honesty will win out well then that
keeps giving with compliments by gosh
and right it it's a damn hard day really
choose something on their own isn't it
which makes me feel very immature I
don't like this I mean I wish I were
great live enough for mature enough to
make my decisions we stick by them but I
need somebody to help me on somebody to
push me
so she can approach yourself for that I
guess until why if I was anybody if I
was grown up I'd be mature enough to
decide things like this price them right
and take more risk I wish that take more
risks I wish that I could just go ahead
and be this with any however the
children go up I've done with this I
didn't have to constantly have this
conflict and I glide Satan used to say
no matter what you ask me kids at least
I told you the truth you may not have
liked it but it's been the truth that's
all now I can admire I just respect
people that lie I hate it so you see
what a good learner I am is I hate
myself if I'm bad but I also hate myself
if I lie
so it's accepting you want to become
more accepting I guess judging here tone
of voice you sound as when you hate
yourself more when you live and do in
terms of things you disappear really I
do because this was really bothered me
this happen with family about a month
ago and it keeps coming to learn I don't
know whether to go back and talk to her
about it
oh wait she may have even forgotten what
she asked me that though everyone does
you haven't forgotten I have no I like
at least be able to tell her this I
remember lying and I'm sorry lied and
it's been driving me bugs because I did
I don't know I feel like now that's
solved and I don't even solve a thing
but I feel relieved I am I just feel
like you've been saying to me you're not
giving me advice but I feel like you're
saying you really want to know what
pattern you want to follow Gloria and go
ahead and follow it that's what I feel
stacking up for you I guess the way I
sense it is you've been telling me that
you know what you want to do and yes I
do believe in backing up people and what
they want to do just a little different
slant from the way it seems to you
are you tell me one thing that concerns
me it's no damn good you're doing
something that you haven't really chosen
to do that's why I'm trying to help you
find out what's your own inner choices
in and there's also a conflict there
because I'm not really positive what I
want to do the lying part yes but I'm
not positive what I want to do when I go
against myself like when I bring in the
end of the house I'm not sure I want to
do that if I feel guilty afterwards
unless not really wanted to just to say
just sure which words you use but you
don't want it you don't like yourself or
you don't agree with it when you do
something against yourself
you know this is so different now this
kind of thing that we're talking about
now
it isn't just knowing whether you want
to do something or not if I want to go
to work in the morning or I don't want
to go to look that's easy but when I
find myself doing something I don't feel
comfortable with I automatically say if
you're not comfortable glory it's not
right something's wrong
all right now what I want to ask you is
how can I know which is the strongest
because I do it does that mean that the
strongest and yet if I disapprove that's
just part of the thing that's got to go
on with it see it sounds like you I'm
picking up a contradiction I'm letting
you know falling
some of you feeling a contradiction in
yourself team oh you what I heard you
saying in part is the way you like it
is when you feel really comfortable
about what you're doing yes and I have
at times when I've made a decision
now that seems right that feels
perfectly right no conflict but then
there are times I do things that I feel
uncomfortable with so that there is the
conflict there it's not the same at all
so what I'm saying is how I really know
when I'm falling my true feelings if I
have conflicts afterwards or guilt
afterwards I see because in the moment
that may seem like your true feelings
yes like if I'm starting to do it okay
so it really is tough
and if you feel comfortable in a moment
about it but then after it don't feel at
all comfortable which course of action
is really the one you should have
followed the most outstanding thing I
don't know if you follow me when I say
about this conflict the one thing I know
is I boil it for example to leave my
husband for quite a few years I never
did it I kept thinking how nice it would
be or how scary it would be but I never
did it and all of a sudden when I did it
felt right I didn't feel mean toward him
I just knew this is what I had to do
that's what I know and following myself
I'm fine my feelings completely had no
conflict there some of the happy things
came from it but I still had no conflict
that to me is will in following my
feelings and in everyday life the small
little decisions the small little things
to do don't come out that clear at all
so many conflicts coming if it's natural
although you're saying I expect it is
but but you're saying TV you know
perfectly well of feeling within
yourself that occurs when you're really
doing something it's right for you I do
I do and I miss that feeling other times
it's better way a clue to me you can
really listen to yourself sometimes
realize no no this isn't the vague
feeling this isn't this isn't the way I
would feel if I was doing that I
we wanted to do but yet many times I'll
go along and do it anyway
and say oh well I'm in the situation
I'll just remember next time I mentioned
this one a lot in therapy and most
therapists granite knee or gig or
something when I say utopia but when I
do fall or feeling and I feel this good
feeling inside me that's sort of utopia
that's what I mean that's the way I like
to feel whether it's a bad thing or a
good thing but I feel right about me
that's what you'll knows utopian moments
you really feel kind of whole you feel
all in one piece yeah yeah it gives me a
choked up feeling when you say that
because I don't get that as often as I'd
like I like that whole feeling that's
real precious to me xscape none of us
get it as often as we like but I really
do understand
don't touch you didn't and you know
we're also are just thinking I thought
he's done saying it
all of a sudden isn't on here is Betsy
on right I can talk to you and I want
you to approve of me and I respect you
but I miss what my father can talk to me
like you are way I'd like to say to you
like you for my father I only know one
that came to me you look to me like a
pretty nice gutter
but you really do miss the fact that you
couldn't be open with your own game
you know I couldn't be open below I
won't blame it on him I think I'm more
open than hit alarm II mean II would
never
this will be talk like you are and not
disapprove but not blowing me down it
yeah I thought of this year the day why
do I always have to be so perfect I'm
why he always wanted me to be perfect I
always had to be better and yeah is that
it was trying like hell to be the girl
he wants you to be you have to same time
my darling thank you
like I almost started writing in the
letter the other day and telling him I'm
a waitress which I expected to
disapprove of like while at nights and I
I always quoted hanging back like no how
do you like me and yet I really want
acceptance and love from him I mean I
really never use slapping and say this
is what I am seeing
yeah but it amazed me how do you like it
but you know what I think I want him to
say and this was you all along for me
and I really love you I guess you really
feel badly you think there's very little
chance you'll say that well maybe it
isn't here I went back home in about two
years ago really really to let him know
I loved him although I bit later him but
he doesn't hear me he just keeps saying
things like honey you know I love you
you know I've always loved doing shit up
in here
never really known you and loved you and
this somehow is what brings the tears in
time I don't know what it is you know
what it
never really known you and loved you and
this somehow is what brings the tears
inside I don't know what it is
you know want to talk about it it feels
more flip if I just sit still it it
feels like a great big hurt down there
did I
mm-hmm much much easier to be a little
flip because then you don't feel that
big lump inside over and again that's a
hopeless situation
I tried working on it and I feel
thinking I have to accept my father just
isn't the type of reality like I'd like
somebody more understanding and caring
he cares but not in the way that we
cooperate and communicate you'll note
that I am permanently cheated hmm that's
why I like substitutes like I like
talking to you and I like limit I can
respect doctors on my I keep sort of
maybe underneath feeling like we're real
close you know and it's sort of like a
substitute father
I don't feel this became
well they're not really my father no I
meant about the real close business
we'll see I think about pretending to
because I can't expect you to feel very
close to me you don't know me that well
all I can do is what I am feeling that
is I feel close to you in this moment
in spite of feeling initially
artificiality of the situation
particularly the hot light I very
quickly became oblivious to the outside
situation and I think the Gloria did too
in many ways I'm glad that she kept
pushing me for an answer to her Rea
personal questions about her sex life
and her relationship to her daughter I
say I'm glad of this because as the
relationship developed it became I think
completely clear to her as well as to me
that she was seeking something a good
deal deeper than that incidentally I'd
like to pay my tribute to her deep
honesty and being willing to talk about
herself so freely although every
individual is entirely unique and in
this respect I was definitely unprepared
for and sometimes surprised by the
material she brought up still in another
sense this was very typical of my
experiences in therapy when I'm able
really to let myself enter into a
relationship and I feel that this was
true in this instance then I find myself
not only being increasingly moved by
being in touch with the inner world of
my client but I find myself bringing out
of my own inner experience statements
which seem to have no connection with
what's going on but which usually proved
to be approved to have a very
significant relationship to what the
client is experiencing I felt there were
one or two incidents of this kind
in this brief interview I was genuinely
moved I probably showed it by the fact
that she told me near the end of the
contact she saw me as the father she
would like to have my reply was also a
thoroughly spontaneous one that she
seemed to me like a pretty nice daughter
I guess I feel that we were only playing
the real world of relationships when I
talk about such an experience in terms
of transference and countertransference
I feel quite deeply about that I want to
say yes we can put this experience and
do some such highly intellectualized
framework that when we do that it
completely misses the point of the very
immediate eval quality of the
relationship at such moments I felt that
Gloria and I really encountered each
other and that in some small but I
believe lasting way we were each of us
enriched by the experience I'm saying
these things almost immediately after
the conclusion of the interview and as
is characteristic of me there are not
more than one or two statements or
incidents which I recall from the
interview I simply know that I was very
much present in the relationship that I
lived it in the moment of its occurrence
and I realized that after a time I may
begin to remember it too but at the
present time I really have a very
nonspecific memory of the whole
interview I'll try to look at it though
a little bit more from a intellectual
rather than a strictly feeling point of
view Gloria showed that I've come to
feel our characteristic elements of
therapeutic movement in the first part
of the interview she was talking about
her feeling
and they were past feelings she was
talking about aspects of her behavior
and of herself as if she didn't quite
own them
she was looking outside herself for a
center or locus of evaluation some
source of authority she saw some of the
things she was talking about in fairly
black-and-white - fashion by the end of
the interview she was experiencing her
feelings in the immediate moment not
only as evidenced by her tears but by
her ability to express very directly and
with immediacy her feelings toward me
she was also much more aware of her
ability to make her own judgments and
choices I guess put in terms that have
become somewhat commonplace you could
say that she moved from the there and
then of her life to the here and now of
elements that she was discovering in
herself and feelings that she was
experiencing in the moment in her
relationship with me all in all I feel
good about the interview I guess I feel
good about myself in the interview and
like Gloria I feel very real regret that
the relationship cannot continue
you
I am to interview a patient and I'd like
to give you some thumbnail sketch of
what Gestalt therapy stands for Agatha
is working on an equation awareness
equal Pleasant time equal reality in
contrast to depth psychology we try to
get hold of the obvious of the surface
of the situation in which we find
ourselves and to develop the emerging to
start strictly on the eye and thou it
now basis any escape into the future or
the past is the exam as a likely
resistance against the ongoing encounter
modern man has edited even up so much of
his potential but his ability to cope
with his existence becomes very
impoverished my aim is this
the patient should recover his lost
potential he should integrate the
conflicting celeritas understand the
difference between being playing
especially the playing of verbal games
on the one hand and of genuine authentic
be a confident behavior on the other the
civil war of inner conflicts weakens the
efficiency in comfort of the patient but
every bit of integration strength need
now in the same emergency of the
therapeutic saturation I repeat in the
safe emergency of the therapeutic
situation the patient begins to take
risks into transforms energies from
manipulating the environment for support
into developing greater greater self
support when its reliance on his own
resources this process is called
maturation
once the patient has learned to stand on
its own feet emotionally intellectually
and economically his need for therapy
will collapse we wake up from the
nightmare of his existence
the basic technique is this not to
explain things to the patient but to
provide the patient with opportunities
to understand and to discover himself
for this purpose I manipulate and fasted
the patient in such a way that he's
confronting himself in this process he
identifies with his lost potential for
instance through assimilating his
projections by acting out by acting out
the alien parts of himself instantly I
consider any interpretation to be a
therapeutic mistake as this one implies
that the therapist understands the
patient paper and the patient himself
takes away from the patient he chance of
discovering himself by himself and
prevents him from finding out his own
values and style and the other hand I
guess I got most of the content of what
the patient says and concentrate most on
the nonverbal level as this is the only
which only one which is less subject to
self-deception in his verbal pseudo self
expression on the nonverbal level the
relevant is start and always emerge and
can deadly in the here and now
we are going to interview for happened
right away I'm scared you see you're
scared but you're smiling I don't
understand how it can be scared and
smile at the same time
and I'm also suspicious of you I think
you understand very well I think you
know that when I get scared I laugh or I
kid to cover up but do you have stage 5
I don't know I'm mostly aware of you I'm
afraid that I'm afraid you're going to
have such a direct attack that you're
going to get me in the corner and I'm
afraid of it I want you to be more on
myself I get you in your corner you put
your hand on your chest this is your
call well it's like yeah it's like I'm
afraid no way would you like to go can
you describe the calling like to go to
yeah it's back in corner where where I'm
completely protected they would be safe
of me for me
well I know I wouldn't really well in
their chosen yeah made you in this color
you're perfectly safe now but what you
doing the girl I just said mister just
see how long would you sit I don't know
but this is so funny as you're saying
this this reminds me of when I was a
little girl
every time I was afraid I feel better
sitting in a corner okay you hanneke I
didn't get you good
well no but it's the same feeling are
you good this feeling reminds me of it
oh you know no not
oh are you when you're not the little
kid yeah okay
so your thought your girl who's afraid
of a guy like I don't even know yeah I
don't know I'll be afraid of you I get
real defensive with you know what can I
do to you
you can't do anything but I can sure
feel down and I can feel stupid for not
having the right answers now what would
it do for you to be feel dumb and stupid
I hate it when I'm stupid what would it
do for you to be dumb and stupid
don't put it so like this what would you
do to me if you would play dumb and
stupid it makes you all the smarter and
all the higher above me then I really
have to look up to you because you're so
smart
yeah but me how practically no I think
you can do that all by yourself I think
the other way along if you play dumb and
stupid you force me to be more explicit
that's been said to me before but I
don't buy it I don't know what I do with
your feet now wiggling joke now oh I'm
afraid to go knows everything I do she
told me I want you to help me become
more relaxed yes I don't want to be so
defensive with you I don't like to feel
so defensive
you're acting like you're treating me as
if I'm stronger than I am and I want you
to protect me more and be nicer to me
are you will feel smile don't believe
about your cords sure bluff your phony
do you believe you mean it seriously
yeah if you see your faded you laugh and
you bigger than you still it's funny put
the performance for me oh I I resent
that very much explicit yes sir I most
certainly I'm not being funny I I will
admit this it's hard for me to show my
embarrassment and I hate to be
embarrassed but boy I resent you calling
me a phony just because I smile when I'm
embarrassed or I'm put in the corner
doesn't mean I'm being a phony wonderful
fiction he didn't spend for the last
minute
well I met you I am that's right it
didn't have to cover up your hangovers
your smile
no in that moment in that minute you had
not therefore well at that minute I was
mad though I wasn't embarrassed
neither to you mention of the phony I
still resent that I'm not involved with
him nervous again I want to get mad at
you I you know what I want you on my
level so I can pick on you just as much
as you're picking on me
okay pic of me
I have to wait till you say something I
can pick on better what does this mean
can you develop this movement it's I
can't find words I want to develop this
but if you went dancing I want to start
all over again with him
okay that's some fun I don't Collier I'd
like to put you on I'd like to ask you a
question and because I have a feeling
you don't like me right off the bat and
I want to know if you do can you not
play put spells not like a Gloria what
would he say he'd say that she's a phony
for one see you our food you're a phony
and you're a flip little girl and your
show-off what would look absolutely
I know what I'd answer I'd say I think
you are too
you'll say tell this to me he told me
what before you got him
secret tip for
for me I'm not quite the right word but
it's more like a a show-off sure I can't
know all the answers
yeah and I want you to be more human and
that doesn't seem very human to me no
it's not about you
Yeah right away find out how I'm kicking
my feet and why am i doing like this why
are you doing like that oh yeah I've got
eyes I can see you're kicking your feet
I don't need a scientific computer to
see that you're kicking your feet let's
think about that I don't need to be wise
to see the chicken feet I know but it
seems like you're trying to find some
reason for it I don't
this year imagination okay I know what
I'd like from you can I tell you what
I'd like Sunita
I'd like you to be aware that I'm
kicking my feet and to be aware that I'm
giggling when I'm really nervous and
accept it instead of putting me on the
defensive having to explain it I don't
want to have to explain why I'm doing
these things you could scream
you said why am i or what am i doing
well what am i doing he said it's right
kicking your feet I didn't ask you to
explain the see imagination
it's not this for it is the foots of
your imagination big difference
to the circuit again you feel now
hello stupid
I'm not playing stupid I don't know this
is plain stupid
you get something with you here there
it's very chance something my hair with
you object to know okay
no but I your your hair and your
features go along with the feeling I had
about you earlier I had a phone I could
be afraid of you and you're the type of
person that seems like you're Demian so
much respect and song Europe these
favorites
I demand so much respect okay that's
what you just saw
well you know how smart I am I know more
about psychology than you do Gloria so
anything I say of course is right can
you say the same is Gloria something
similar is global but the same I guess
Chloe
I demand respect because
I don't know
no I don't identify it with my father
but not me I don't feel like a man
respect the man no sure I mean I think
I'd like more I'd like you to respect me
more well you see so your demand respect
alright yeah yeah so am i right if I
click demand respect from you I would do
who's preventing you except yourself
because I feel if I get myself out on
the corner here let me just drown you're
not going to help me one bit and I know
that I can't quite come up to standards
with you what should i do then you're
the chrome encourage me to come out oh
we don't have enough courage to come out
by yourself
you need something for little limbs in
the stairs out of it oh yeah so anytime
you want somebody to pay attention to
you call into a corner and wait till
your car service that's exactly what I'd
like and this is what I call fun part
knee this is for the court for me why is
it funny I'm admitting to you what I am
how is that a funny that is a phony
because it's a trick it's a gimmick the
quality of Colin wait until somebody
comes to us I'm admitting it I know what
I'm doing I'm not being funny I'm not
pretending I'm so brave I resent that I
feel like you're saying unless I come
out openly and stand on my own I'm not a
phony baloney I'm just just as real
sitting in that corner as I am out here
all by myself but ends up sitting in New
Mexico well not now
and besides that it's like passing
judgment when you call me phony I just
hate that anyway now we are getting
something I call anybody phony who put
some necked and if you like somebody you
want to meet this person to go to this
person tell them I would like to meet
you I would call not for me but if you
consciously go into the corner and
waiting to be rescued this I call for me
here's a copy and I still think you're
judgmental you know what I have a
feeling you've never felt this way in
your life you feel so secure that you
don't have to feel anybody that does
something like this you're gonna pass
judgment on their being a phony while I
resent it no play puts passing judgment
or you're sitting up there in your big
old chair I'm the type a stretcher
how's catchman on Mila
I don't feel close to you at all dr.
pearls I feel that's Tony I feel like
you're playing one big game
what sure it playing games but in spite
of the games I think I touch you now and
then I think I'm out you in our culture
food of course you did
and I think I hit the bull's eye that's
why you feel hot
I don't know all I know is when somebody
when I feel the way I feel with you
right now
I it's like you don't have feelings
right now
accentuate this but you just like that's
it talk to you like I can't I can't I
want to laugh I want to I'd like you to
be younger than me so I could really
scold you how it must have been my h3
good at something now imagine I know
yours could okay don't be so cocksure
yourself don't think you're so doggone
smart
don't act so proud because you've never
been in the corner I think you can be
just as big a phony parading around like
you're so damn smart you know all the
answers as much as me sitting in my
corner
oh and I like the feeling with you being
younger I'd like to really I'd like to
embarrass you
it does when you every what you wouldn't
get embarrassed you see my affected
Bettis me how hard how ugly I am
you don't look alike when you look
distinguished
that gives us all the more on your side
if you look so distinguished then see
that's more on your side too right oh
yeah can you see Swanson with quite a
good fire no I know no that's it
I don't think you're fighting with me
but I thought you came out quite a bit
know how manager wonderful but you seem
so detached you don't even seem to care
that I'm mad at you for not recognizing
me at all doctor Pearl's not a bit this
is quite true our contact is much too
superficial to be involved in cave I
care for you as far as let's see you all
right now my client I care for you as
far as I'd like to like an artist in
something hug which is hidden
this is fire care
well I'd like you to I'd like to feel
that there's some it's frustrating if I
were to leave you right now and not see
again it would frustrate me to feel like
there haven't been more contact I feel
completely out of contact with you like
I'm talking to the baby that doesn't
understand me or something like that I
don't feel like we're a bit in contact
and that frustrates me that bothers me
more than being angry with you I'd
rather we were angry and fought and to
have no contact yeah this reminds me of
when my husband and I used to fight he
sits there and he listens to me but he's
not even aware of how much I hate him
and how mad I am at him I'd rather say
I'd love it rather affect you you didn't
really hate me or something and I feel
like you're purposely staying out of
contact with me how should I be
give me a fantasy how could I share my
concern with here
I can't say in words I know the feeling
I'd seen on you but I can't say it's
just a feeling like I don't know it's
like I want you to respect me more as a
human being that I've got feelings now
we come back to the beginning so you
won't respect yes I do I do
this is a different kind of respect and
I won it the first time but you want to
eat this yes
I respect you so much as you deem that I
refuse to accept the phony part of
yourself and I trust myself to the
genuine part right now the last few
minutes we were wonderfully generally
women playing anymore I could see you
very good okay
well I don't feel I've got it right when
I felt like somebody or I disagree what
somebody's doing if if I should respect
them if they're above me they're
superior to me I don't feel I've got a
right to really really tell you how mad
I am it's it's village
we're not take it to chicken you're
taking pic to your safe corner that's
the way it feels
that's what the seed corn feels like to
me now go back to your safe crop because
we have to pop well so you steal
yourself collar you came out for a
moment
you nearly met me could get a little bit
angry with me
okay for your safety I feel like you're
telling me the only way you respect me
as a human being if I'm aggressive and
forceful in strong yeah I thought you
couldn't even accept mine I'd be scared
to death to cry in front of you I feel
like you'd laugh at me and call me a
phony I feel like you don't accept my
weak side only when I'm yelling back at
you were hollering at you you must
define Memphis well I wouldn't even give
you the satisfaction see this again no
see the ticket
I try not to I try not to cry in front
of you or show my weak spot for period
jump on me again
hey that your eyes are most I'm aware
that I feel more jokey yes I feel it
could you choke me
pretend but not for real women for me
because I don't hate you that much
anyone who took my history with me to
choke you so you would be crying I'd
like to I'd like to choke you it would
be to make you cry I'd like to see you
weak I'd like to see you hurt and
vulnerable
refer to this thing for you
make me feel like I'm I have more of a
right to be heard you went jump on me so
quick would you jump on me if I would
cry
no but I would jump on you if you would
cry
you sure this
no I'm not sure
but what would you like me to do if you
were to cry
are you smiling you're trying something
off
well because I got two feelings I was
gonna say I want you to I want you to
love me and hug me but then I thought no
I don't want to what's your passion I'd
be scared to be too close to you now
we're getting somewhere
first you want to be close to me now
your fate to be too close just what I'm
saying
that's right now we got the two ports of
exist look they're two different
feelings close I mean emotionally but
not physically affected two ports of
existence now I have a far away in the
corner I'll be so close that you can
melted to run with other person the
penalty travel between the two extremes
I do you know what I'm thinking when I
am really hurt and really upset about
something and I want someone to love me
like my girlfriend will do a lot and
she'll come up to hug me I don't I don't
want it see what I'm talking about
you cannot sustain contact
okay this isn't damage but I think if
you hit too close to your foe and if you
let her hug you
the only thing I'm aware of is like when
I perspire it embarrasses me that should
feel how wet I am and it should hold my
body up close and I don't know I'll feel
fish it's question yeah yes I am I do
this more geeky
is it itchy I can just feel what it is I
don't like it you see this to me put
your icky
you know
that's a difficulty because I feel like
if you really believe me that one hurt
your feelings oh you must love my
feelings wow I thought that was so
indifferent sissy before that road
nothing could touch me now you suddenly
discovered the way to touch me isn't it
well you know what I believe I believe
you're the type of person sort of like
really that you act like it wouldn't
hurt your feelings but it really would
Black's strong but you you're soft and
vulnerable inside there too I think your
feelings could be hurt sure but I don't
think you'd show it very easy look what
I do I would I could see to my feelings
I turning it back on me
I think now what did you get from that
Gloria you turn the whole thing back on
me instead of showing another jewel
now can you see this to puts out to you
what did you get out of this face see
this to me would you get out of what but
you just see Mississippians
sure I know what you'd get out of it if
I said what did you get out of this rich
kid say nothing it didn't bother me it
was you that didn't you still wouldn't
let me know you were hurt but I know
what it would be if you told your true
feelings but you didn't want to show
your hurt so you covered it up same way
with me in the corner
not if I well if I would cry what would
you do this
you would be you wouldn't be so superior
to me you'd be more vulnerable and I
could pacify you and make you feel
better
good hard for me yes and I could be the
babe yes yes I'd like that
he had feel more on my level I wouldn't
have to feel so done with you the other
way Paul who would have to be my baby
she would cry we would like to pay the
baby and be comforted in Parkton the
poor thing every man to
attend something came to mass closure
he came to little bit of understatement
I think we finish this simple situation
well
the demonstration was in my opinion
quite successful and consistent with my
theoretical outlook the avoidance of the
genuine encounter manifested itself in
three ways
the patient was first taking control by
putting on a smiling sophisticated phony
mask of oscillating between the pretense
of being frightened and yet at the same
time having me figured out that's being
or believing to be fully in control of
the situation secondly she was
withdrawing by fantasizing of hiding in
a corner Berkeley she was blocking the
real encounter of melting through crying
which then would have been the real
emotional meaning of this meeting the
patient was capable of identifying her
surface several fantasies she had
projected onto me she was this was
especially evident with regard to her
initial denial for need to be respected
the need for environmental support
started to come out beside so need to
get respect
it was normalized in a wish to be cared
for rescued from the corner and so on I
broke off the session when the first
tears begin to appear she began to play
the role of a lonely child and
apparently wanted to be hugged and
comforted adhere to a simulation of a
projection began to work she began to
experience holding me like a baby
apart from
assisting in assimilating and some
projections they made therapeutic factor
was to show how the inconsistency of a
verbal and nonverbal behavior for
instance saying that she was frightened
and smiling at the same time a
frightening person does not smile may I
fear it was in the direction of
embarrassment this embarrassment was
protected by the brazenness and anger to
get to exist the existential
embarrassment we would have to work
through and eliminated the phone in this
that is the ease with which we can
superficially assume any role that is
required for a specific situation
this suit adaptation is her way of
coping with life this is about what I
got out of this session
you
rationale therapy a rational emotive
therapy also called
RT for short is based on several
fundamental propositions or hypotheses
the first of these is that the past is
not crucial in a person's life
the past affects him a good deal but he
effects himself much more than the past
affects him because no matter what he
has learned during his historical
development the only reason why these
things that have happened to him and
have been told to him affect him today
is because he is still re indoctrinating
himself with the same philosophies of
life the same values that he usually
imbibed and taught himself to early in
his childhood so we stick largely in the
present in rational emotive
psychotherapy rather than in the past
and we believe that today the individual
experiences negative emotions
self-defeating behavior inefficiencies
because he now is indoctrinating himself
with what we call simple exclamatory
sentences which involve ideas human
beings can tell themselves ideas in all
kinds of languages and pictures in sign
languages and non verbal expression in
man for example but they normally speak
to themselves in simple English if
English is their native tongue and when
they talk to themselves in an irrational
or an illogical way then they create
they literally create their negative
feelings or emotions in the behavior
that follows their from now just to give
an example the individual usually tells
himself when he's upset first the same
sentence and then an insane that
the same sentence is something along the
order of I don't like the thing that
I've done I dislike my own behavior and
that would be fun but unfortunately he
follows it with an insane sentence which
says to himself and because I don't like
my behavior I am a louse I am worthless
I am a no-goodnik and this thoroughly
insane sentence which is a sentence of
faith unfounded on fact which has no
empirical reference which is a kind of
superstitious or dogmatically religious
system creates what we call his anxiety
and through his anxieties depression his
guilt
there's other forms of self defeatism or
again the individual tells himself the
same sentence I don't like your behavior
when let us say somebody's acted badly
with him and instead of following that
up with that because I don't like your
behavior I can still stand it and I'm
going to try to change to get you to
change your behavior he says I can't
stand your behavior or in an absolute
istic god-like grandiose manner you
shouldn't be the way you are because I
think that I don't like the way you are
now it's the second B sentences which
upset the individual or another way of
putting it as epictetus a Roman
philosopher said many years ago it's not
what happens to us at point-a that it
upsets us it's be a view of what happens
to us and in rational emotive
psychotherapy we go after this
individual the patient's view and show
him that whatever he thinks is upset him
usually some external situation what
somebody else has done it's really what
he's telling himself about this thing
this event which upsets him and although
he may never be able to do anything
about the external event at a he can
change the internal event his sentence
is belief to himself at D now in
rational emotive psychotherapy we try to
show the patient three kinds of insight
and counted distinctions to some other
therapies which usually emphasize one
magic on the first kind we try to show
him is that all his behaviors especially
his negative self-defeating behavior
which we're interested which is
upsetting him has clear-cut ideological
antecedents he may have learnt these as
I said before in the past but right now
today he must still believe these same
ideologies else he would not get the
negative behavior that flows therefrom
and insight number two which is most
important than which is unfortunately
neglected and many other systems of
psychotherapy is that he being as Ernst
casera once said a symbolizing animal is
continually re-induction aiding himself
with these ideologies and that's the
issue that's why he's now disturbed now
in sight number three is that even when
he sees clearly what he's telling
himself and that he's telling himself
nonsense only by work and practice by
continually reassessing and revaluing
his own philosophical will he ever get
better
now we also stress the fact that action
is necessary to change an individual
just talking about things thinking about
things is nice but not necessary I
should say it's not a necessary
condition for psychotherapeutic can
change the change what the individual
has to do in addition usually is act and
we therefore give him concrete homework
assignments and get him to act these out
and check up and follow to see whether
he does these homework assignments and
our final goal is to get the individual
to learn and learn for the rest of his
life to challenge and question his own
basic value system his own thinking so
that he
really thanks for himself he must do
this particularly when he feels
miserable he feels anxiety or depression
or guilt or too much frustration or
anything else that is negative or when
he behaves very inefficiently and
finally he was able through this kind of
you thinking rethinking his own
assumptions to apply what we call the
scientific method to the facets of human
living and to be truly scientific in his
behavior to question and challenge his
own assumptions as we do in science and
thereby to minimize or never entirely to
eliminate the terrible anxiety and the
atrocious hostility which unfortunately
affects most of us in this existence
well Gloria I'm not relevant yeah after
we hit it
well would you like to tell me what's
bothering you most yeah I think the
things that I'd like to talk to you the
most about are adjusting to my single
life mostly men I guess America diet I
don't know if I'm doing the wrong thing
but I'm going to refer to your book
anyway because this is what I'm
impressed with this book about the
intelligent Woman's Guide to man 9 yeah
tried to follow it and I believe in it
this is why it's so fun reading your
book because I'm not much of a reader
but I sort of believe the same way you
do
but then I've got a problem is there
healthy men that I do I'm attracted to
or the type of man I'd like to become
closely as always I can't seem to meet
or I get to shower with or something
that I don't
it just doesn't click the men I seem to
be dating nowadays are the ones that I
don't respect much the ones I don't
enjoy much the same blip and
uninteresting and I don't know if it's
something about me or what because I
really do want to meet this kind of man
well let's talk a little about your
shyness let's suppose you meet somebody
who you consider eligible but you might
walk now let's see if we can get at the
source of your shyness just what you're
telling yourself to create this you meet
this man and you feel shy and Bharath
yes but I don't usually show that I
usually act slip right back yeah I act
like the other man act to me of America
kayak flip
I don't seem near as intelligent I act
like a typical dumb blonde I'm just I'm
just not myself with him I'm more on a
tease yes well as you probably know from
x-man hunting I believe that people only
get
emotions such as negative emotions of
shyness embarrassment shame because they
tell themselves something in simple
explanatory sentences now let's try to
find out what you're telling yourself
you're meeting this individual now what
do you think your sink is up before you
get I didn't know what it is that I'm
not I don't stand up to his expectations
I'm not quite enough for him he's
superior to me although I want this type
of man I'm afraid
I won't have enough to attract him well
that's the first part of the sentence
that might be a true one because maybe
he could be spirit to you in some ways
maybe he wouldn't be attracted to you
but that would never upset you if you
were only saying that I think he may be
superior to me now you're adding a
second sentence to that which is if this
is so that would be awful
well not quite so extreme as that
because I thought about that too it
usually I've missed my chance again
because when I want to become I want to
show the very best of myself because I
think I have self-confidence and I have
enough to offer when I get afraid like
that then I show all the bad qualities i
ĂŹm flip on then I'm so much on the
defensive that I can't show my good
qualities and it's like I miss my chance
again there was a good opportunity to be
close to this man and I Loused it up
again all right but even let's suppose
you're saying that and I think you're
really off but you must be saying
something else too because if you were
just saying hell I missed my chance
again you'd say all right next time I'll
take advantage of what I learned this
time and do it a little better now you
still must be saying if you feel shame
embarrassment shine there's something
pretty bad about your error in missing
your chance again I don't know if this
follows in contact what you're saying
but the thing I do feel is that I get
suspicious then am I the type of woman
that will only appeal to the ones that
are
not my type of guy anyway is there
something wrong with me am I never going
to find the kind of man I enjoy I always
seem to get the other one all right now
you're getting closer to what I'm
talking about because you're really
saying if I am this type of woman that
none of these good eligible males are
going to appeal to then that would be
awful I never get what I want and that
would really be something frightful
I don't like thinking of myself that way
I want to put myself on a higher
standard I don't like to think that I
may be just an average Jane Doe so let's
just suppose for the second argument at
the moment that that were sir that you
were an average Jane Doe now would that
be so terrible would be inconvenient it
would be unpleasant you wouldn't want it
but would you get an emotion like
shyness embarrassment shame out of just
believing that maybe I'm going to end up
like Jane Doe I don't know I don't think
it could because you still would have to
be saying on some level as I think
you've just said and it would be very
bad it would be terrible I would be a
no-goodnik if I would just watch it I
don't never get what I want if I were
just a Jane Doe and I thought I have to
accept it I'd never get what I want and
I don't want to live the rest of my life
with just kicking in well why not
necessarily so you've never you really
mean your chances would be reduced
because we know some icky girls who get
some splendid men don't yeah if they say
you're generalizing there you're saying
it probably would be that I'd have a
more difficult time but then you're
jumping to therefore I'd never get at
all you ain't a catastrophizing there
that you jump to yes but it feels that
way to me at the time it seems like
forever that's right but isn't that a
vote of non-confidence in you an
essential vote of non-confidence and the
non-confidence is because you're saying
one I don't want to miss out on I think
I would like to get the kind of a man I
want and be a in your word superior kind
of girl who gets a superior kind of man
yes but if I don't then I'm practically
on the other side of the chain
completely a no-goodnik somebody will
never
anything that I want which is quite an
extreme away isn't it yes and that's
what I call catastrophizing taking a
true statement and there is a good deal
truth what you're saying if you didn't
get the kind of a man you watch it that
it would be inconvenient annoying
frustrating which it really would be and
then saying I'd never possibly get what
I want and even beyond that you're
really saying and then I couldn't be a
happy human being aren't you really
saying that but let's just look at that
let's just assume the worst the
spiritual Russell once said years ago
assume the worst that you never got at
all for whatever the reasons may be the
kind of a man you want look at all the
other things you could do in life to be
happy well I don't like the whole
process I don't even like if I'm going
through it I don't all right even if it
wasn't a catastrophe yeah even if I
didn't look at it as a catastrophe I
don't like the way I'm living right now
for example when I meet somebody that
I'm interested in that could have some
potential by the way I find I'm not near
as relaxed with him I worry more should
I be friendly should I kiss him
goodnight should I do this if it's just
a Joe doe and I don't give it on I can
be anything I want to be I turn out to
be more of a person when I'm not as
concerned I don't like the way I'm up
well I would you're not you're not
really concerned you're over concerned
you're anxious because you were just
concerned you do your best you'd be
saying yourself
if I succeed great if I don't succeed
top right now I won't get what I want
but you're over consider actions you're
really saying again that's what you said
a moment ago if I don't get what I want
right now I'll never get it and that
would be so awful that I've got to get
it right now that causes the anxiety
doesn't it yes or else work toward it
yes but if I don't get it right now
that's alright but I want to feel like
I'm working toward it yes that you want
a guarantee I hear my trained ears hear
you saying I would like a guarantee of
working towards there are none sir well
no dr. house
I don't know why I'm coming out that way
what I really mean is I want a step
toward working toward it
well I bother you I don't know I thought
well what I was hoping is whatever this
isn't me why I don't seem to be
attracting these coming and why seem on
the defensive why I seem more afraid you
could help me when it is I'm afraid of
so I won't do it so much well my
hypothesis is so far that what you're
afraid of is not just family with this
individual man which is really the only
thing at issue when you go out with a
new and we're talking about eligible
males I will rule out the ineligible one
you're not just afraid that you'll miss
this one
you're afraid that you'll miss this one
and therefore you miss every other and
therefore you prove that you are really
not up to getting what you want and
wouldn't that be awful you're bringing
in these catastrophe you sound more
strong in it but that's similar I feel
like this is Cecilia if I keep this up
because I think I'm doing there's
something I'm doing that to be as real a
person with these men that I'm
interested as write your defeating your
own ends but I've done it again if I
weren't so doggone anxious about trying
to hook this guy I could be more real
he's going to enjoy me more if I'm real
anyway so I'm only giving him the stinky
part of me right how can anybody I
respect respect it's a church and that's
what I am when I don't really come
through but look how you just devalued
yourself let's just suppose in sake of
argument you kept giving the stinky part
of you a human being another person
who's trying to get interest in you
might not like these attributes these
characteristics of you but I don't think
he's going to despise you as a person
who's you are really doing I don't I'm
writer on myself and I think that's
exactly of course like me there's not
enough to me right and I say before if
people just didn't like you when you
went through enough of lemon it would be
hard to go through enough that it would
be possible you'd eventually find one
who did like you and whom you like but
as long as you devalue yourself
personally in your own eyes you
complicate the problem enormous ly and
you're not focusing on how can I be
myself
change the traits if you for example
Hedy let us just say a mangled arm and
you wouldn't accept your whole person
being because of this mangled arm then
you would focus so much on that mangled
arm that you wouldn't be able to do
things that you wouldn't otherwise be
able to do it's almost what I did yes
yes you say that's exactly so you taking
a part of you an arm and focusing almost
completely on that in just to bring it
down to our own conversation taking a
part of you your shyness you're not
being yourself with males and focusing
so much on that part that you're almost
making not at the whole of you and you
get an awful picture of your total self
because of this defective part and we're
assuming you and I didn't is effective
we're not glossing opens they know
you're doing alright you're not doing
that well right now you can accept
yourself for the time being with this
defective part with these attributes and
not beat yourself over the head as I see
of you definitely in doing then it
becomes a relatively simple problem to
work and practice to work and practice
against this negative attribute in other
words let's get back to that now how to
be yourself let's just suppose for the
moment that you really were fully
accepting yourself with your failings
alright you know you're going to go how
you know you're gonna screw up with the
next man man after that an old
probability but you're saying alright I
have to go through a learning process
that's too bad I won't be very good
during this while but I'll do it just as
I would add ice skating where I have to
fall on my neck for a few times before I
learned to ice skate okay now let's
suppose that man if that was so you were
really accepting you you go out take the
risks of being you because after all if
you do in one of these then you have to
be yourself you're not winning them for
a day you're not winning them for a fair
I assume you want to marry one of these
individuals eventually and be
relationship I don't think so yeah he
reaches along alright a long
relationship in the course of which you
couldn't ask so we don't want to give
you something I think well that he'll
later find that was a role playing good
thing so you have to eventually be
yourself now if you really weren't so
disturbed about these present current
failings views you could go out and be
this self of yours ask yourself what do
I really want to do with
man to help and join him and have him
help and join me because that's the
basic function of life enjoyment which
we can't lose and you force yourself to
take the risk of being back because if
you succeeded great
if you fail too bad either you not for
him or he may even not be for you
because don't forget you said before
when these men are projecting you assume
right away it must be my doing a my
fault you know they may not be your cup
of tea and you may not be their cup of
tea and it's nobody's fault it's just
true incompatible with it yes you say
yes so if you would really accept
yourself as you are and then force
yourself as if you were one of my
regular patients I would give you this
homework assignments and then check up
on you to see whether you can force
yourself to open your big mouth and be
you for a while even though it hurt with
these nails you would find the a you
would start being yourself and gradually
laughing off these inefficiencies which
incidentally are the result of not being
you but watching yourself from the
outside while you trying to be you which
is almost impossible because you can't
spy on yourself and still be yourself
very well at the same time no but it
would become like a habit after a while
if you took the risks and force yourself
to as I said open your big mouth and
even though you thought maybe it'll come
out badly maybe he won't like me maybe
I'll lose him complete me and so on and
so forth then you start swinging in the
groove and being what you want to be and
I would almost guarantee that you'd
become more practice than less
inefficient especially in terms of the
shyness because you wouldn't be focusing
on oh my god isn't this awful how bad I
am you would be focusing on what a place
individual this is and how can I enjoy
him which is the oh the focus well you
see my relationship
other way how can I be more attractive
to him and how can he be pleased by me
because underneath if I am NOT then I
cannot enjoy myself I refuse to accept
myself unless I attract and win this
good individual isn't that what you
basically yes and I even go further dr.
must win when there is one of these men
I come in contact with and I find that I
want it called a bit more of a
relationship well if he accepts me I'm
going along pretty great I find myself
constantly on the defensive honestly
watching the way I see it not drinking
too much the whole time instead of just
relaxing a single eater like Mary
doesn't supposed in psychotherapy you're
giving a very good illustration of why
other directors this is business other
directors it doesn't pay because if you
really are defining yourself in terms of
others estimation of you then even when
you're ahead of the game and you're
winning them you have to be saved
yourself will I win them today will I
win them tomorrow will I keep winning
them and you're always focused on am i
doing the thing to please him and you
never are yourself you never have itself
while if you're saying what do I want to
do in life there must be some human
beings who would like me the way I am
let's see if this is one of those human
beings then that's the only way isn't it
that you can be you see you know we
haven't got too much car now so let's
try to get it off on a constructive
notice more concretely what you can do
you asked before where you can go how
you can meet new people I'd say that I
don't know this particular area but it's
almost any place if you could do what we
are talking about really take risks and
focus on what you want out of life and
on the fact that it's going to take time
which unfortunately it does and then
it's not awful and you are not awful
while it's taking that time then you can
leave yourself open unsure lead to all
kinds of new and counselors and these
encounters can take place on buses while
waiting for a streetcar
they have streetcars in this area at
cocktail parties anywhere you can talk
to people who look eligible you can ask
your friends to get you eligible but
males
but the main thing is that you have to
pay like yourself while you're not doing
badly and be not be intolerance against
conditions which are bad and I'm
agreeing with you that they are now as I
said I would give you if your aphasia
mind the homework assignment of
deliberately very deliberately going out
and getting yourself into trouble in
other words taking the most eligible
males you can find at the moment and
forcing yourself risking yourself to be
you are you saying even if it were like
if I went into a doctor's office to
start a conversation with him because he
was attractive to me or he appealed to
me right if I go so far as to starting
out a conversation with him personally
and why not it is an eligible individual
any kind of an eligible individual I
know you accept that but that seems
awfully brazen I symbol X suppose it is
brazen what have you got to lose the
worst he can do is reject you and you
don't have to reject you if you were
thinking along the lines that we've been
25 minutes a second so yeah now can you
try to do that I think I think so in
order to give me a spurt to go out and
see you're right that's all I can do is
be rejected right and that needs you
intact it just leaves you unfortunately
not for the moment getting what you want
so you try to go anywhere in red and
I'll be very interested in finding out
what happened oh I'm excited and father
well it was certainly very nice meeting
you for thank you doctor
I enjoyed talking with this interesting
and I think highly courageous patient
and thought that it gave a the session
gave a pretty good illustration of a
fairly typical session of rational
emotive psychotherapy how was it typical
in several ways in the first place I was
able rather rapidly and quickly to get
to some of what I think are the
philosophic cores of the patient's
disturbances to show her that the reason
she is feeling shy and the shame frayed
in this instance is because even though
partially unwittingly she is defining
herself in a very negative way or
devaluing herself by blaming herself too
much for imperfect behavior because
perfectionism is the root of most human
evils and she was showing some fairly
typical perfectionistic notions so very
quickly as is usually done in rational
emotive psychotherapy we skip some of
the asides we skip going back into the
history of some of the psycho analysts
do and we skip some of the transference
relations between us and the patient and
we skip some of the nonverbal expression
not that we think these things are quite
unimportant that we think there are
relatively little relevance to the basic
core of the patient's disturbance which
is her philosophy of life typically
again this patient showed both anxiety
and low frustration tolerance which most
patients showed and these were
intertwined and again very usually she
was then beating herself over the head
blaming herself condemning herself for
feeling these kinds of feelings now she
did not see very clearly at least I
thought so at the beginning of the
session exactly what the claritin
sentences and exclamatory sentences she
was telling herself to create these
feelings and I endeavoured to show her
some of these sentences and what could
be done about it
among other things I also though briefly
because this is just one brief session
tried to give her a homework assignment
that you could go and get her teeth into
and actively try to do 2d propagandize
herself by going out and taking risks
which normally up to now she hadn't been
taking that much of it's interesting to
note that again quite typically in this
session although I was attacking fairly
vigorously the patient's attitudes or
philosophies she did not feel an attack
on her she felt that I was supporting
her anything and she ended up I thought
rather optimistically feeling that I had
given her several ideas of what she
could do in the future again rather
typically in this session I kept
persuading the patients and attacking
her ideas and showing her that her
philosophy of life not only was such and
such but that if she stuck to this kind
of philosophy she had to get negative
and self-defeating results from it and
then I kept persistently going on even
though a time she became defensive and
wasn't quite accepting by any means what
I was saying
I didn't let this bother me but kept
going on against her basic core system
her value system because this is again
what bothers patients that they give up
very easily on attacking their own
negative evaluations of themselves and
therefore they persist forever now the
world limitations of course especially
in terms of time through the session and
these limitations did have some effect
for example it wasn't a not enough time
for repetition in several sessions I
would have gone over much of the same
material until I was sure that hadn't
sunk in then I would have had time to
get feedback from the patient to see
whether she really understood in action
in particular what I was talking about
and whether she was following it up or
leading herself up some other diverting
pathway which people can do there was no
time to emphasize that she would have to
continually reassess her evaluations of
herself and her general philosophies and
do rethinking for the rest of the life
time to show the patient very much that
even during this session in relation to
me and what she was saying about herself
that she was displaying her bad
attitudes toward herself and finally
there was no occasion because this was
an individual session to see how she
related specifically to other non
therapists so she would in group therapy
and in the midst of this group situation
to show her exactly what was going on
and what she could do about it but I do
feel hope hopeful about the session and
think that perhaps I was able to at
least to give the patient a few ideas
which he could then go out and work on
on her own because unless patients do
work themselves with the material that
we therapists give them in psychotherapy
nothing eventually happens it isn't any
magic that we have for them but we can
give them certain catalytic ideas and
influences which then if they work and
practice at work and practice that will
do them good for the rest of their lives