[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.86,0:00:03.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is an entire genre of YouTube videos
Dialogue: 0,0:00:03.80,0:00:05.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,devoted to an experience which
Dialogue: 0,0:00:05.81,0:00:08.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am certain that everyone in this room has had.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.39,0:00:10.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It entails an individual who,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:10.40,0:00:11.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thinking they're alone,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:11.96,0:00:15.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,engages in some expressive behavior —
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.17,0:00:17.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wild singing, gyrating dancing,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.68,0:00:20.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some mild sexual activity —
Dialogue: 0,0:00:20.28,0:00:22.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,only to discover that, in fact, they are not alone,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.88,0:00:25.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there is a person watching and lurking,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.92,0:00:27.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the discovery of which causes them
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.68,0:00:29.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to immediately cease what they were doing
Dialogue: 0,0:00:29.58,0:00:31.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in horror.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.47,0:00:33.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The sense of shame and humiliation
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.55,0:00:35.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in their face is palpable.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:35.83,0:00:37.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the sense of,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:37.56,0:00:39.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"This is something I'm willing to do
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.30,0:00:42.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,only if no one else is watching."
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.90,0:00:45.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the crux of the work
Dialogue: 0,0:00:45.32,0:00:47.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on which I have been singularly focused
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.36,0:00:49.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the last 16 months,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.24,0:00:51.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the question of why privacy matters,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:51.30,0:00:53.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a question that has arisen
Dialogue: 0,0:00:53.24,0:00:56.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the context of a global debate,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:56.36,0:00:58.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enabled by the revelations of Edward Snowden
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.85,0:01:01.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the United States and its partners,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:01.19,0:01:03.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unbeknownst to the entire world,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.21,0:01:05.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has converted the Internet,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:05.30,0:01:08.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,once heralded as an unprecedented tool
Dialogue: 0,0:01:08.10,0:01:11.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of liberation and democratization,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:11.42,0:01:13.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into an unprecedented zone
Dialogue: 0,0:01:13.19,0:01:17.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of mass, indiscriminate surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:17.28,0:01:19.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a very common sentiment
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.24,0:01:20.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that arises in this debate,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.73,0:01:22.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even among people who are uncomfortable
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.68,0:01:24.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with mass surveillance, which says
Dialogue: 0,0:01:24.74,0:01:26.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there is no real harm
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.66,0:01:29.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that comes from this large-scale invasion
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.40,0:01:32.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because only people who are engaged in bad acts
Dialogue: 0,0:01:32.68,0:01:34.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have a reason to want to hide
Dialogue: 0,0:01:34.75,0:01:37.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to care about their privacy.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:37.46,0:01:40.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This worldview is implicitly grounded
Dialogue: 0,0:01:40.24,0:01:42.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the proposition that there are\Ntwo kinds of people in the world,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.42,0:01:44.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,good people and bad people.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:44.45,0:01:47.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bad people are those who plot terrorist attacks
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.42,0:01:48.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or who engage in violent criminality
Dialogue: 0,0:01:48.92,0:01:52.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and therefore have reasons to\Nwant to hide what they're doing,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:52.07,0:01:54.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have reasons to care about their privacy.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:54.13,0:01:56.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But by contrast, good people
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.95,0:01:58.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are people who go to work,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.60,0:02:01.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,come home, raise their children, watch television.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:01.50,0:02:04.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They use the Internet not to plot bombing attacks
Dialogue: 0,0:02:04.26,0:02:06.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but to read the news or exchange recipes
Dialogue: 0,0:02:06.74,0:02:09.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or to plan their kids' Little League games,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:09.21,0:02:11.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and those people are doing nothing wrong
Dialogue: 0,0:02:11.53,0:02:13.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and therefore have nothing to hide
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.58,0:02:15.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and no reason to fear
Dialogue: 0,0:02:15.94,0:02:18.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the government monitoring them.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:18.38,0:02:20.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The people who are actually saying that
Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.19,0:02:22.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are engaged in a very extreme act
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.97,0:02:24.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of self-deprecation.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:24.52,0:02:26.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What they're really saying is,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:26.43,0:02:28.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I have agreed to make myself
Dialogue: 0,0:02:28.63,0:02:31.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such a harmless and unthreatening
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.47,0:02:34.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and uninteresting person that I actually don't fear
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.43,0:02:37.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,having the government know what it is that I'm doing."
Dialogue: 0,0:02:37.78,0:02:39.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This mindset has found what I think
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.58,0:02:41.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is its purest expression
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.65,0:02:43.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a 2009 interview with
Dialogue: 0,0:02:43.96,0:02:46.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the longtime CEO of Google, Eric Schmidt, who,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:46.89,0:02:49.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when asked about all the different ways his company
Dialogue: 0,0:02:49.44,0:02:51.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is causing invasions of privacy
Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.61,0:02:54.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for hundreds of millions of people around the world,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:54.22,0:02:56.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,said this: He said,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:56.21,0:02:57.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"If you're doing something that you don't want
Dialogue: 0,0:02:57.88,0:02:59.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other people to know,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:59.90,0:03:03.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place."
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.90,0:03:05.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, there's all kinds of things to say about
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.89,0:03:08.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that mentality,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:08.23,0:03:11.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the first of which is that the people who say that,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:11.47,0:03:13.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who say that privacy isn't really important,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:13.59,0:03:16.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they don't actually believe it,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:16.54,0:03:18.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the way you know that\Nthey don't actually believe it
Dialogue: 0,0:03:18.36,0:03:21.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that while they say with their\Nwords that privacy doesn't matter,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:21.23,0:03:24.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with their actions, they take all kinds of steps
Dialogue: 0,0:03:24.39,0:03:27.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to safeguard their privacy.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.15,0:03:28.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They put passwords on their email
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.97,0:03:30.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and their social media accounts,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:30.74,0:03:32.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they put locks on their bedroom
Dialogue: 0,0:03:32.62,0:03:33.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and bathroom doors,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:33.97,0:03:36.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all steps designed to prevent other people
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.67,0:03:39.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from entering what they consider their private realm
Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.57,0:03:43.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and knowing what it is that they\Ndon't want other people to know.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:43.27,0:03:46.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The very same Eric Schmidt, the CEO of Google,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:46.33,0:03:48.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ordered his employees at Google
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.94,0:03:50.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to cease speaking with the online
Dialogue: 0,0:03:50.88,0:03:53.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Internet magazine CNET
Dialogue: 0,0:03:53.15,0:03:55.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after CNET published an article
Dialogue: 0,0:03:55.74,0:03:57.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,full of personal, private information
Dialogue: 0,0:03:57.77,0:03:59.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about Eric Schmidt,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.85,0:04:02.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which it obtained exclusively\Nthrough Google searches
Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.97,0:04:06.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and using other Google products. (Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:04:06.31,0:04:08.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This same division can be seen
Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.17,0:04:10.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the CEO of Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:10.63,0:04:14.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who in an infamous interview in 2010
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.16,0:04:16.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pronounced that privacy is no longer
Dialogue: 0,0:04:16.56,0:04:19.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a "social norm."
Dialogue: 0,0:04:19.58,0:04:22.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Last year, Mark Zuckerberg and his new wife
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.14,0:04:24.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,purchased not only their own house
Dialogue: 0,0:04:24.44,0:04:28.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but also all four adjacent houses in Palo Alto
Dialogue: 0,0:04:28.32,0:04:29.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a total of 30 million dollars
Dialogue: 0,0:04:29.93,0:04:33.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in order to ensure that they enjoyed a zone of privacy
Dialogue: 0,0:04:33.47,0:04:35.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that prevented other people from monitoring
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.59,0:04:39.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what they do in their personal lives.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:39.19,0:04:41.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Over the last 16 months, as I've\Ndebated this issue around the world,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.94,0:04:44.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every single time somebody has said to me,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:44.36,0:04:45.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I don't really worry about invasions of privacy
Dialogue: 0,0:04:45.87,0:04:47.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I don't have anything to hide."
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.48,0:04:49.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I always say the same thing to them.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.18,0:04:51.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I get out a pen, I write down my email address.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.47,0:04:53.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I say, "Here's my email address.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:53.11,0:04:54.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What I want you to do when you get home
Dialogue: 0,0:04:54.81,0:04:56.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is email me the passwords
Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.52,0:04:58.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to all of your email accounts,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:58.33,0:05:00.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not just the nice, respectable work one in your name,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:00.89,0:05:02.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but all of them,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:02.44,0:05:04.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I want to be able to just troll through
Dialogue: 0,0:05:04.50,0:05:06.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what it is you're doing online,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:06.18,0:05:08.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,read what I want to read and\Npublish whatever I find interesting.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:08.74,0:05:10.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After all, if you're not a bad person,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.54,0:05:12.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you're doing nothing wrong,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:12.36,0:05:15.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you should have nothing to hide."
Dialogue: 0,0:05:15.34,0:05:18.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not a single person has taken me up on that offer.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.87,0:05:22.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I check and — (Applause)
Dialogue: 0,0:05:22.88,0:05:26.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I check that email account religiously all the time.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:26.12,0:05:29.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a very desolate place.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.32,0:05:31.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's a reason for that,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:31.11,0:05:33.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is that we as human beings,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:33.15,0:05:35.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even those of us who in words
Dialogue: 0,0:05:35.10,0:05:37.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,disclaim the importance of our own privacy,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.55,0:05:39.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instinctively understand
Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.68,0:05:41.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the profound importance of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:41.88,0:05:44.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is true that as human beings, we're social animals,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.70,0:05:46.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which means we have a need for other people
Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.85,0:05:49.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to know what we're doing and saying and thinking,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:49.60,0:05:53.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is why we voluntarily publish\Ninformation about ourselves online.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.87,0:05:56.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But equally essential to what it means
Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.71,0:05:59.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be a free and fulfilled human being
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.29,0:06:01.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to have a place that we can go
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.43,0:06:05.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and be free of the judgmental eyes of other people.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.46,0:06:07.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a reason why we seek that out,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.47,0:06:10.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and our reason is that all of us —
Dialogue: 0,0:06:10.38,0:06:13.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not just terrorists and criminals, all of us —
Dialogue: 0,0:06:13.70,0:06:15.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have things to hide.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:15.75,0:06:18.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are all sorts of things that we do and think
Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.50,0:06:21.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we're willing to tell our physician
Dialogue: 0,0:06:21.20,0:06:24.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or our lawyer or our psychologist or our spouse
Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.95,0:06:27.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or our best friend that we would be mortified
Dialogue: 0,0:06:27.29,0:06:29.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the rest of the world to learn.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:29.25,0:06:31.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We make judgments every single day
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.45,0:06:33.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the kinds of things that we say and think and do
Dialogue: 0,0:06:33.91,0:06:35.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we're willing to have other people know,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.63,0:06:37.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the kinds of things that we say and think and do
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.62,0:06:39.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we don't want anyone else to know about.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:39.95,0:06:43.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People can very easily in words claim
Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.28,0:06:45.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they don't value their privacy,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.44,0:06:50.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but their actions negate the authenticity of that belief.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:50.42,0:06:54.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, there's a reason why privacy is so craved
Dialogue: 0,0:06:54.15,0:06:55.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,universally and instinctively.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.89,0:06:57.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It isn't just a reflexive movement
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.78,0:07:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like breathing air or drinking water.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:00.49,0:07:02.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The reason is that when we're in a state
Dialogue: 0,0:07:02.93,0:07:05.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we can be monitored,\Nwhere we can be watched,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:05.59,0:07:08.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our behavior changes dramatically.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:08.26,0:07:11.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The range of behavioral options that we consider
Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.30,0:07:13.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we think we're being watched
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.10,0:07:15.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,severely reduce.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.26,0:07:17.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is just a fact of human nature
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.48,0:07:19.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that has been recognized in social science
Dialogue: 0,0:07:19.76,0:07:21.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in literature and in religion
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.67,0:07:23.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in virtually every field of discipline.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:23.90,0:07:26.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are dozens of psychological studies
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.68,0:07:29.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that prove that when somebody knows
Dialogue: 0,0:07:29.23,0:07:30.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they might be watched,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:30.80,0:07:32.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the behavior they engage in
Dialogue: 0,0:07:32.49,0:07:35.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is vastly more conformist and compliant.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.97,0:07:39.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Human shame is a very powerful motivator,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:39.32,0:07:42.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as is the desire to avoid it,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.23,0:07:43.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's the reason why people,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:43.73,0:07:45.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they're in a state of\Nbeing watched, make decisions
Dialogue: 0,0:07:45.97,0:07:49.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not that are the byproduct of their own agency
Dialogue: 0,0:07:49.23,0:07:51.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that are about the expectations
Dialogue: 0,0:07:51.24,0:07:52.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that others have of them
Dialogue: 0,0:07:52.69,0:07:57.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the mandates of societal orthodoxy.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.13,0:07:59.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This realization was exploited most powerfully
Dialogue: 0,0:07:59.100,0:08:04.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for pragmatic ends by the 18th-\Ncentury philosopher Jeremy Bentham,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:04.14,0:08:06.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who set out to resolve an important problem
Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.49,0:08:08.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ushered in by the industrial age,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:08.29,0:08:10.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where, for the first time, institutions had become
Dialogue: 0,0:08:10.65,0:08:12.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so large and centralized
Dialogue: 0,0:08:12.64,0:08:14.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they were no longer able to monitor
Dialogue: 0,0:08:14.47,0:08:17.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and therefore control each one\Nof their individual members,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:17.42,0:08:19.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the solution that he devised
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.31,0:08:21.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was an architectural design
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.51,0:08:24.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,originally intended to be implemented in prisons
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.22,0:08:26.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that he called the panopticon,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:26.54,0:08:28.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the primary attribute of which was the construction
Dialogue: 0,0:08:28.90,0:08:31.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of an enormous tower in the center of the institution
Dialogue: 0,0:08:31.98,0:08:34.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where whoever controlled the institution
Dialogue: 0,0:08:34.12,0:08:36.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could at any moment watch any of the inmates,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.81,0:08:40.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,although they couldn't watch all of them at all times.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.13,0:08:42.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And crucial to this design
Dialogue: 0,0:08:42.18,0:08:43.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was that the inmates could not actually
Dialogue: 0,0:08:43.98,0:08:46.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,see into the panopticon, into the tower,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:46.86,0:08:48.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so they never knew
Dialogue: 0,0:08:48.53,0:08:50.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if they were being watched or even when.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:50.70,0:08:54.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what made him so excited about this discovery
Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.28,0:08:56.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was that that would mean that the prisoners
Dialogue: 0,0:08:56.16,0:08:59.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would have to assume that they were being watched
Dialogue: 0,0:08:59.18,0:09:00.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at any given moment,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.87,0:09:02.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which would be the ultimate enforcer
Dialogue: 0,0:09:02.75,0:09:06.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for obedience and compliance.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:06.42,0:09:09.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The 20th-century French philosopher Michel Foucault
Dialogue: 0,0:09:09.35,0:09:11.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,realized that that model could be used
Dialogue: 0,0:09:11.28,0:09:14.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not just for prisons but for every institution
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.39,0:09:16.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that seeks to control human behavior:
Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.34,0:09:19.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,schools, hospitals, factories, workplaces.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:19.22,0:09:21.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what he said was that this mindset,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.41,0:09:23.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this framework discovered by Bentham,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:23.84,0:09:27.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was the key means of societal control
Dialogue: 0,0:09:27.17,0:09:29.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for modern, Western societies,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:29.17,0:09:30.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which no longer need
Dialogue: 0,0:09:30.94,0:09:32.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the overt weapons of tyranny —
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.85,0:09:35.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,punishing or imprisoning or killing dissidents,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.25,0:09:38.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or legally compelling loyalty to a particular party —
Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.56,0:09:40.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because mass surveillance creates
Dialogue: 0,0:09:40.96,0:09:43.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a prison in the mind
Dialogue: 0,0:09:43.52,0:09:45.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is a much more subtle
Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.36,0:09:47.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,though much more effective means
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.25,0:09:50.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of fostering compliance with social norms
Dialogue: 0,0:09:50.30,0:09:51.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or with social orthodoxy,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.76,0:09:53.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,much more effective
Dialogue: 0,0:09:53.32,0:09:56.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than brute force could ever be.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:56.44,0:09:59.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The most iconic work of literature about surveillance
Dialogue: 0,0:09:59.26,0:10:02.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and privacy is the George Orwell novel "1984,"
Dialogue: 0,0:10:02.81,0:10:06.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which we all learn in school, and\Ntherefore it's almost become a cliche.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.28,0:10:08.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, whenever you bring it up\Nin a debate about surveillance,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:08.35,0:10:10.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people instantaneously dismiss it
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.60,0:10:12.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as inapplicable, and what they say is,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:12.90,0:10:16.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Oh, well in '1984,' there were\Nmonitors in people's homes,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:16.18,0:10:18.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were being watched at every given moment,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.35,0:10:22.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that has nothing to do with\Nthe surveillance state that we face."
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.31,0:10:25.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is an actual fundamental misapprehension
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.23,0:10:27.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the warnings that Orwell issued in "1984."
Dialogue: 0,0:10:27.93,0:10:29.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The warning that he was issuing
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.58,0:10:31.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was about a surveillance state
Dialogue: 0,0:10:31.19,0:10:33.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not that monitored everybody at all times,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.35,0:10:35.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but where people were aware that they could
Dialogue: 0,0:10:35.41,0:10:37.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be monitored at any given moment.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:37.04,0:10:40.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here is how Orwell's narrator, Winston Smith,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:40.11,0:10:42.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,described the surveillance system
Dialogue: 0,0:10:42.15,0:10:43.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they faced:
Dialogue: 0,0:10:43.55,0:10:45.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"There was, of course, no way of knowing
Dialogue: 0,0:10:45.98,0:10:48.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether you were being watched\Nat any given moment."
Dialogue: 0,0:10:48.29,0:10:49.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He went on to say,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:49.74,0:10:51.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"At any rate, they could plug in your wire
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.45,0:10:53.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whenever they wanted to.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:53.16,0:10:55.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You had to live, did live,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:55.74,0:10:57.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from habit that became instinct,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:57.100,0:11:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the assumption that every sound you made
Dialogue: 0,0:11:00.49,0:11:02.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was overheard and except in darkness
Dialogue: 0,0:11:02.68,0:11:05.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every movement scrutinized."
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.42,0:11:08.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Abrahamic religions similarly posit
Dialogue: 0,0:11:08.76,0:11:11.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's an invisible, all-knowing authority
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.71,0:11:13.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who, because of its omniscience,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.45,0:11:15.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,always watches whatever you're doing,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.35,0:11:18.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which means you never have a private moment,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:18.12,0:11:19.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the ultimate enforcer
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.80,0:11:22.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for obedience to its dictates.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:22.79,0:11:26.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What all of these seemingly disparate works
Dialogue: 0,0:11:26.20,0:11:28.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,recognize, the conclusion that they all reach,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:28.98,0:11:31.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that a society in which people
Dialogue: 0,0:11:31.31,0:11:33.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can be monitored at all times
Dialogue: 0,0:11:33.61,0:11:36.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a society that breeds conformity
Dialogue: 0,0:11:36.27,0:11:38.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and obedience and submission,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:38.51,0:11:40.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is why every tyrant,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:40.02,0:11:42.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the most overt to the most subtle,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.10,0:11:44.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,craves that system.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:44.37,0:11:47.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Conversely, even more importantly,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:47.02,0:11:49.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is a realm of privacy,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.46,0:11:52.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the ability to go somewhere where we can think
Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.47,0:11:55.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and reason and interact and speak
Dialogue: 0,0:11:55.63,0:11:59.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without the judgmental eyes\Nof others being cast upon us,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:59.28,0:12:02.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which creativity and exploration
Dialogue: 0,0:12:02.82,0:12:05.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and dissent exclusively reside,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:05.85,0:12:07.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that is the reason why,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:07.67,0:12:10.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we allow a society to exist
Dialogue: 0,0:12:10.25,0:12:12.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which we're subject to constant monitoring,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:12.41,0:12:15.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we allow the essence of human freedom
Dialogue: 0,0:12:15.39,0:12:18.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be severely crippled.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:18.34,0:12:21.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The last point I want to observe about this mindset,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:21.46,0:12:23.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the idea that only people who \Nare doing something wrong
Dialogue: 0,0:12:23.39,0:12:27.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have things to hide and therefore\Nreasons to care about privacy,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:27.27,0:12:31.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that it entrenches two very destructive messages,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:31.28,0:12:33.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,two destructive lessons,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:33.30,0:12:35.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the first of which is that
Dialogue: 0,0:12:35.06,0:12:37.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the only people who care about privacy,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.18,0:12:39.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the only people who will seek out privacy,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:39.24,0:12:43.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are by definition bad people.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.31,0:12:45.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a conclusion that we should have
Dialogue: 0,0:12:45.44,0:12:47.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all kinds of reasons for avoiding,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:47.97,0:12:50.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the most important of which is that when you say,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:50.72,0:12:53.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"somebody who is doing bad things,"
Dialogue: 0,0:12:53.10,0:12:55.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you probably mean things\Nlike plotting a terrorist attack
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.94,0:12:57.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or engaging in violent criminality,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:57.98,0:13:00.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a much narrower conception
Dialogue: 0,0:13:00.52,0:13:02.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what people who wield power mean
Dialogue: 0,0:13:02.97,0:13:05.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they say, "doing bad things."
Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.02,0:13:07.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For them, "doing bad things" typically means
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.33,0:13:10.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doing something that poses meaningful challenges
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.40,0:13:13.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the exercise of our own power.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:13.50,0:13:15.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The other really destructive
Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.45,0:13:17.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, I think, even more insidious lesson
Dialogue: 0,0:13:17.36,0:13:20.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that comes from accepting this mindset
Dialogue: 0,0:13:20.14,0:13:22.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is there's an implicit bargain
Dialogue: 0,0:13:22.91,0:13:26.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that people who accept this mindset have accepted,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:26.25,0:13:27.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that bargain is this:
Dialogue: 0,0:13:27.70,0:13:29.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you're willing to render yourself
Dialogue: 0,0:13:29.68,0:13:31.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sufficiently harmless,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:31.78,0:13:33.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sufficiently unthreatening
Dialogue: 0,0:13:33.95,0:13:35.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to those who wield political power,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:35.83,0:13:38.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then and only then can you be free
Dialogue: 0,0:13:38.87,0:13:40.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the dangers of surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.98,0:13:43.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's only those who are dissidents,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:43.36,0:13:44.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who challenge power,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:44.84,0:13:46.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who have something to worry about.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.65,0:13:50.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are all kinds of reasons why we\Nshould want to avoid that lesson as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:50.06,0:13:52.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You may be a person who, right now,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:52.30,0:13:54.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doesn't want to engage in that behavior,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:54.37,0:13:56.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but at some point in the future you might.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:56.82,0:13:58.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even if you're somebody who decides
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.50,0:14:00.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you never want to,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:00.26,0:14:01.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the fact that there are other people
Dialogue: 0,0:14:01.90,0:14:04.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are willing to and able to resist
Dialogue: 0,0:14:04.10,0:14:06.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and be adversarial to those in power —
Dialogue: 0,0:14:06.14,0:14:07.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,dissidents and journalists
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.67,0:14:09.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and activists and a whole range of others —
Dialogue: 0,0:14:09.76,0:14:12.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is something that brings us all collective good
Dialogue: 0,0:14:12.25,0:14:15.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we should want to preserve.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:15.23,0:14:17.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Equally critical is that the measure
Dialogue: 0,0:14:17.32,0:14:19.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of how free a society is
Dialogue: 0,0:14:19.59,0:14:21.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not how it treats its good,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.74,0:14:24.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,obedient, compliant citizens,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:24.20,0:14:26.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but how it treats its dissidents
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.04,0:14:29.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and those who resist orthodoxy.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:29.16,0:14:30.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the most important reason
Dialogue: 0,0:14:30.75,0:14:33.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that a system of mass surveillance
Dialogue: 0,0:14:33.15,0:14:35.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,suppresses our own freedom in all sorts of ways.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:35.77,0:14:37.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It renders off-limits
Dialogue: 0,0:14:37.57,0:14:39.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all kinds of behavioral choices
Dialogue: 0,0:14:39.58,0:14:43.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without our even knowing that it's happened.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:43.13,0:14:45.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The renowned socialist activist Rosa Luxemburg
Dialogue: 0,0:14:45.61,0:14:48.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,once said, "He who does not move
Dialogue: 0,0:14:48.10,0:14:51.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does not notice his chains."
Dialogue: 0,0:14:51.46,0:14:53.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can try and render the chains
Dialogue: 0,0:14:53.15,0:14:56.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of mass surveillance invisible or undetectable,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:56.24,0:14:58.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the constraints that it imposes on us
Dialogue: 0,0:14:58.90,0:15:01.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do not become any less potent.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:01.45,0:15:03.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:03.06,0:15:04.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Applause)
Dialogue: 0,0:15:04.49,0:15:05.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:05.100,0:15:10.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Applause)
Dialogue: 0,0:15:10.89,0:15:13.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:13.28,0:15:16.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Applause)
Dialogue: 0,0:15:19.32,0:15:21.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bruno Giussani: Glenn, thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:21.61,0:15:23.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The case is rather convincing, I have to say,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:23.90,0:15:25.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I want to bring you back
Dialogue: 0,0:15:25.47,0:15:28.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the last 16 months and to Edward Snowden
Dialogue: 0,0:15:28.82,0:15:30.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a few questions, if you don't mind.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:30.88,0:15:33.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first one is personal to you.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:33.37,0:15:36.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have all read about the arrest of your partner,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:36.41,0:15:39.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,David Miranda in London, and other difficulties,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:39.72,0:15:41.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I assume that
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.80,0:15:45.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in terms of personal engagement and risk,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:45.16,0:15:46.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the pressure on you is not that easy
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.96,0:15:49.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to take on the biggest sovereign \Norganizations in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:49.91,0:15:52.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Tell us a little bit about that.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:52.34,0:15:54.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Glenn Greenwald: You know, I think\None of the things that happens
Dialogue: 0,0:15:54.00,0:15:55.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that people's courage in this regard
Dialogue: 0,0:15:55.93,0:15:57.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gets contagious,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:57.64,0:16:01.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so although I and the other\Njournalists with whom I was working
Dialogue: 0,0:16:01.11,0:16:02.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were certainly aware of the risk —
Dialogue: 0,0:16:02.64,0:16:05.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the United States continues to be\Nthe most powerful country in the world
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.36,0:16:07.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and doesn't appreciate it when you
Dialogue: 0,0:16:07.36,0:16:09.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,disclose thousands of their secrets
Dialogue: 0,0:16:09.28,0:16:11.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the Internet at will —
Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.80,0:16:15.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seeing somebody who is a 29-year-old
Dialogue: 0,0:16:15.26,0:16:17.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ordinary person who grew up in
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.28,0:16:19.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a very ordinary environment
Dialogue: 0,0:16:19.60,0:16:23.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exercise the degree of principled\Ncourage that Edward Snowden risked,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.32,0:16:25.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,knowing that he was going to go\Nto prison for the rest of his life
Dialogue: 0,0:16:25.54,0:16:27.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or that his life would unravel,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.32,0:16:29.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,inspired me and inspired other journalists
Dialogue: 0,0:16:29.30,0:16:31.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and inspired, I think, people around the world,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.12,0:16:32.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including future whistleblowers,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.81,0:16:36.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to realize that they can engage\Nin that kind of behavior as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.32,0:16:38.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BG: I'm curious about your\Nrelationship with Ed Snowden,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:38.81,0:16:41.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you have spoken with him a lot,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:41.99,0:16:43.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you certainly continue doing so,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:43.75,0:16:46.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but in your book, you never call him Edward,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:46.39,0:16:49.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nor Ed, you say "Snowden." How come?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:49.85,0:16:51.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GG: You know, I'm sure that's something
Dialogue: 0,0:16:51.49,0:16:54.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a team of psychologists to examine.\N(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:16:54.82,0:16:58.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't really know. The reason I think that,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:58.41,0:17:01.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of the important objectives that he actually had,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:01.97,0:17:04.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of his, I think, most important tactics,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:04.30,0:17:06.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was that he knew that one of the ways
Dialogue: 0,0:17:06.51,0:17:09.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to distract attention from the\Nsubstance of the revelations
Dialogue: 0,0:17:09.20,0:17:11.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be to try and personalize the focus on him,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:11.85,0:17:13.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and for that reason, he stayed out of the media.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:13.92,0:17:16.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He tried not to ever have his personal life
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.43,0:17:18.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,subject to examination,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:18.10,0:17:20.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so I think calling him Snowden
Dialogue: 0,0:17:20.82,0:17:24.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a way of just identifying him\Nas this important historical actor
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.39,0:17:26.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rather than trying to personalize him in a way
Dialogue: 0,0:17:26.26,0:17:29.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that might distract attention from the substance.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.14,0:17:30.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: So his revelations, your analysis,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:30.60,0:17:32.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the work of other journalists,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:32.38,0:17:35.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have really developed the debate,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:35.38,0:17:37.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and many governments, for example, have reacted,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.51,0:17:40.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including in Brazil, with projects and programs
Dialogue: 0,0:17:40.11,0:17:42.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to reshape a little bit the design of the Internet, etc.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:42.96,0:17:45.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are a lot of things going on in that sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:45.72,0:17:47.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I'm wondering, for you personally,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:47.99,0:17:49.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what is the endgame?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:49.64,0:17:51.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At what point will you think,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:51.27,0:17:54.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,well, actually, we've succeeded \Nin moving the dial?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:54.46,0:17:56.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GG: Well, I mean, the endgame for me as a journalist
Dialogue: 0,0:17:56.74,0:17:59.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is very simple, which is to make sure
Dialogue: 0,0:17:59.18,0:18:01.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that every single document that's newsworthy
Dialogue: 0,0:18:01.20,0:18:02.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that ought to be disclosed
Dialogue: 0,0:18:02.84,0:18:04.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ends up being disclosed,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:04.32,0:18:06.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that secrets that should never\Nhave been kept in the first place
Dialogue: 0,0:18:06.36,0:18:07.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,end up uncovered.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:07.83,0:18:09.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To me, that's the essence of journalism
Dialogue: 0,0:18:09.68,0:18:11.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's what I'm committed to doing.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:11.21,0:18:13.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As somebody who finds mass surveillance odious
Dialogue: 0,0:18:13.68,0:18:15.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for all the reasons I just talked about and a lot more,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.87,0:18:18.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, I look at this as work that will never end
Dialogue: 0,0:18:18.39,0:18:20.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,until governments around the world
Dialogue: 0,0:18:20.57,0:18:23.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are no longer able to subject entire populations
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.19,0:18:24.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to monitoring and surveillance
Dialogue: 0,0:18:24.68,0:18:27.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unless they convince some court or some entity
Dialogue: 0,0:18:27.26,0:18:28.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the person they've targeted
Dialogue: 0,0:18:28.99,0:18:31.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has actually done something wrong.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:31.58,0:18:34.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To me, that's the way that\Nprivacy can be rejuvenated.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:34.81,0:18:37.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BG: So Snowden is very,\Nas we've seen at TED,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:37.16,0:18:39.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is very articulate in presenting and portraying himself
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.93,0:18:42.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a defender of democratic values
Dialogue: 0,0:18:42.21,0:18:43.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and democratic principles.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:43.92,0:18:46.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But then, many people really \Nfind it difficult to believe
Dialogue: 0,0:18:46.95,0:18:49.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that those are his only motivations.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:49.35,0:18:50.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They find it difficult to believe
Dialogue: 0,0:18:50.83,0:18:52.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there was no money involved,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:52.45,0:18:54.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that he didn't sell some of those secrets,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:54.36,0:18:56.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even to China and to Russia,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:56.19,0:18:58.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which are clearly not the best friends
Dialogue: 0,0:18:58.73,0:19:00.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the United States right now.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:00.90,0:19:02.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm sure many people in the room
Dialogue: 0,0:19:02.61,0:19:04.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are wondering the same question.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:04.88,0:19:06.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you consider it possible there is
Dialogue: 0,0:19:06.76,0:19:09.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that part of Snowden we've not seen yet?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:09.37,0:19:12.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GG: No, I consider that absurd and idiotic.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:12.55,0:19:14.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter) If you wanted to,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:14.97,0:19:17.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I know you're just playing devil's advocate,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:17.43,0:19:20.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but if you wanted to sell
Dialogue: 0,0:19:20.64,0:19:22.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,secrets to another country,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:22.55,0:19:24.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which he could have done and become
Dialogue: 0,0:19:24.26,0:19:25.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,extremely rich doing so,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:25.91,0:19:27.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the last thing you would \Ndo is take those secrets
Dialogue: 0,0:19:27.89,0:19:30.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and give them to journalists and\Nask journalists to publish them,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:30.64,0:19:32.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it makes those secrets worthless.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:32.66,0:19:34.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People who want to enrich themselves
Dialogue: 0,0:19:34.31,0:19:36.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do it secretly by selling \Nsecrets to the government,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:36.28,0:19:38.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I think there's one important point worth making,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:38.10,0:19:40.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is, that accusation comes from
Dialogue: 0,0:19:40.34,0:19:42.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people in the U.S. government,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:42.17,0:19:44.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from people in the media who are loyalists
Dialogue: 0,0:19:44.19,0:19:45.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to these various governments,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:45.79,0:19:48.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think a lot of times when people make accusations like that about other people —
Dialogue: 0,0:19:48.94,0:19:50.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Oh, he can't really be doing this
Dialogue: 0,0:19:50.54,0:19:52.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for principled reasons,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:52.21,0:19:54.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he must have some corrupt, nefarious reason" —
Dialogue: 0,0:19:54.45,0:19:56.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're saying a lot more about themselves
Dialogue: 0,0:19:56.56,0:19:58.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than they are the target of their accusations,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:58.38,0:20:02.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because — (Applause) —
Dialogue: 0,0:20:02.77,0:20:05.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those people, the ones who make that accusation,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:05.29,0:20:07.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they themselves never act
Dialogue: 0,0:20:07.19,0:20:09.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for any reason other than corrupt reasons,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:09.11,0:20:10.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so they assume
Dialogue: 0,0:20:10.74,0:20:13.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that everybody else is plagued by the same disease
Dialogue: 0,0:20:13.38,0:20:15.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of soullessness as they are,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:15.38,0:20:17.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so that's the assumption.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:17.25,0:20:18.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Applause)
Dialogue: 0,0:20:18.88,0:20:21.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BG: Glenn, thank you very much.\NGG: Thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:21.36,0:20:23.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BG: Glenn Greenwald.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:23.69,0:20:24.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Applause)