1
00:00:14,441 --> 00:00:16,659
So, power of small.

2
00:00:16,659 --> 00:00:19,057
This could have also been
deconstruction.

3
00:00:19,057 --> 00:00:21,440
We have seen 
the universe deconstructed,

4
00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,273
we have seen 
management deconstructed,

5
00:00:23,273 --> 00:00:26,523
we have seen construction 
being deconstructed,

6
00:00:26,523 --> 00:00:28,857
and ego being deconstructed,

7
00:00:28,857 --> 00:00:31,509
and I'm going to deconstruct 
a cow for you.

8
00:00:32,023 --> 00:00:34,342
Which might seem a little bit odd,

9
00:00:34,342 --> 00:00:35,863
and why would you do such a thing,

10
00:00:35,863 --> 00:00:36,783
and I will explain.

11
00:00:36,783 --> 00:00:40,896
First of all, 
are there any vegetarians in here?

12
00:00:42,342 --> 00:00:45,201
It's hard to see, about 4 or 5, 
which is pretty much

13
00:00:45,201 --> 00:00:50,296
the average for the Netherlands, 
and for every industrial population.

14
00:00:50,296 --> 00:00:52,391
You can doze off for a while...

15
00:00:52,391 --> 00:00:54,192
I'm talking to 
the meat eaters right now.

16
00:00:54,192 --> 00:00:56,250
After five minutes,
you can wake up

17
00:00:56,250 --> 00:00:57,967
because then it becomes 
really interesting,

18
00:00:57,967 --> 00:00:59,901
but I'm first going to tell you

19
00:00:59,901 --> 00:01:03,240
what the problems are 
with meat production.

20
00:01:04,865 --> 00:01:07,601
So it all has to do 
with that these animals,

21
00:01:07,601 --> 00:01:10,493
these pigs and cows
were never really designed

22
00:01:10,646 --> 00:01:13,857
and never had an evolution 
to serve as dinner for us,

23
00:01:14,395 --> 00:01:16,979
so they are not necessarily efficient,

24
00:01:16,979 --> 00:01:19,018
and in fact,
they are very, very inefficient:

25
00:01:19,018 --> 00:01:23,553
for every 15 grams 
of meat that we eat,

26
00:01:23,553 --> 00:01:27,686
we have to feed those animals 
100 grams of vegetable proteins.

27
00:01:27,686 --> 00:01:31,901
And so they have 
a bioconversion rate of 15 %.

28
00:01:31,901 --> 00:01:36,364
Already as we speak, 
livestock is using 70%

29
00:01:36,364 --> 00:01:39,745
of all our arable lands in the world.

30
00:01:40,905 --> 00:01:42,326
And what's even worse,

31
00:01:42,326 --> 00:01:45,190
the World Health Organization 
is predicting,

32
00:01:45,190 --> 00:01:51,209
that in 2050, meat consumption 
will be double what it is right now

33
00:01:51,209 --> 00:01:56,626
because of growing middle class
in India, China, Brazil, Africa.

34
00:01:58,078 --> 00:02:01,033
So you can do the math, 
that's not going to work,

35
00:02:01,033 --> 00:02:02,933
and we need to come up 
with a solution.

36
00:02:02,933 --> 00:02:05,475
That's not the only problem, 
so food security is serious,

37
00:02:05,475 --> 00:02:06,992
but that's not the only problem.

38
00:02:07,735 --> 00:02:08,883
By now, we also know

39
00:02:08,883 --> 00:02:11,532
that these animals, 
being ruminants,

40
00:02:11,532 --> 00:02:18,729
actually excrete a whole lot 
of methane and CO².

41
00:02:18,729 --> 00:02:21,239
Now the ruminologists 
among you might say,

42
00:02:21,239 --> 00:02:24,159
well, actually, 
they don't fart methane,

43
00:02:24,159 --> 00:02:26,261
they belch methane, but, you know

44
00:02:26,261 --> 00:02:28,760
either way it comes out, 
and it gets into our atmosphere

45
00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,126
and it's a greenhouse gas,
it's a very noxious greenhouse gas.

46
00:02:32,126 --> 00:02:34,114
So, that's another issue:

47
00:02:34,114 --> 00:02:38,523
20% of all the greenhouse gas 
emission comes from livestock.

48
00:02:38,523 --> 00:02:43,809
So, a vegetarian with a Hummer 
is actually better for the environment

49
00:02:43,809 --> 00:02:47,539
than a meat-eater with a bicycle. Right?

50
00:02:47,539 --> 00:02:49,443
(Laughter)

51
00:02:50,113 --> 00:02:52,331
And then there's of course 
animal welfare issues.

52
00:02:52,331 --> 00:02:55,371
I won't dwell on it but we all know it 
and we sort of hide it

53
00:02:55,371 --> 00:02:57,639
and we don't want to talk about it, so,

54
00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,760
can we have a solution 
for that problem?

55
00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,869
And in fact in 1932, 
Winston Churchill of all people

56
00:03:04,618 --> 00:03:08,402
mentioned in his book 
"Thoughts and adventures" that

57
00:03:08,402 --> 00:03:10,596
why would we actually 
grow an entire chicken

58
00:03:10,596 --> 00:03:13,340
if we only eat the breast and the wing?

59
00:03:13,340 --> 00:03:14,984
And he was befriended,

60
00:03:14,984 --> 00:03:17,151
--he was of course a statesman, 
so what did he know about biology?--

61
00:03:17,151 --> 00:03:18,976
but he had a friend, Alexis Carrel,

62
00:03:18,976 --> 00:03:21,154
who was a Nobel prize
winning physiologist

63
00:03:21,154 --> 00:03:25,599
and he at the first time, at that time, 
could keep organs alive

64
00:03:25,599 --> 00:03:27,404
outside of the body.

65
00:03:27,558 --> 00:03:30,817
He couldn't make organs, 
he couldn't create them,

66
00:03:30,817 --> 00:03:32,902
but he could keep them 
alive outside of the body,

67
00:03:32,902 --> 00:03:34,707
and from then they went on dreaming,

68
00:03:34,707 --> 00:03:37,917
what if we can also 
create these organs?

69
00:03:37,917 --> 00:03:41,483
At that time it just 
wasn't possible but nowadays,

70
00:03:41,483 --> 00:03:45,049
thanks to the advances 
in the medical field,

71
00:03:45,049 --> 00:03:48,538
we have stem cell technology, 
we have tissue engineering,

72
00:03:48,538 --> 00:03:49,804
and we are getting there.

73
00:03:49,804 --> 00:03:52,976
So, let's see how that works.

74
00:03:52,976 --> 00:03:54,600
Let's deconstruct this cow.

75
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,593
You take a biopsy from a cow,

76
00:03:57,953 --> 00:04:00,594
that will give you 
a small piece of muscle,

77
00:04:01,016 --> 00:04:04,313
and muscle of course 
is the main ingredient of meat.

78
00:04:04,313 --> 00:04:06,253
Not the only one,
I'll come back to that later,

79
00:04:06,253 --> 00:04:07,835
but we have this piece of muscle,

80
00:04:07,835 --> 00:04:09,596
and if you look at 
that piece of muscle

81
00:04:09,596 --> 00:04:11,318
under the microscope, 
you'll see muscle

82
00:04:11,318 --> 00:04:14,972
and you'll also see fat tissue,
which gives some of the taste.

83
00:04:14,972 --> 00:04:21,600
And if you then look 
even closer at this material,

84
00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,578
you will see the skeletal muscle,

85
00:04:23,578 --> 00:04:26,747
the muscle cells, and 
there are tiny cells in there

86
00:04:26,747 --> 00:04:28,416
that are stem cells.

87
00:04:28,416 --> 00:04:31,079
Muscle stem cells, 
that only can make muscle.

88
00:04:31,079 --> 00:04:33,844
They're sitting there, 
waiting to repair the muscle

89
00:04:33,844 --> 00:04:35,384
once it's injured.

90
00:04:35,384 --> 00:04:39,374
Think about Robben at 
the European Soccer Championship

91
00:04:39,374 --> 00:04:41,368
three or four years ago.

92
00:04:42,340 --> 00:04:45,873
So they are sitting there, 
waiting to repair

93
00:04:45,873 --> 00:04:48,570
and they have a couple 
of very nice characteristics.

94
00:04:48,570 --> 00:04:50,954
Being stem cells, they can divide,

95
00:04:50,954 --> 00:04:53,775
they can multiply 
to tremendous numbers.

96
00:04:53,775 --> 00:04:56,073
Actually, from one stem cell,

97
00:04:56,073 --> 00:05:00,160
we can make
10,000 kilos of meat, theoretically.

98
00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,727
So, that is one of 
the crazy features of these cells,

99
00:05:04,727 --> 00:05:06,763
they can divide, 
they can multiply,

100
00:05:06,763 --> 00:05:09,845
they can make 
an entire mass of muscle.

101
00:05:10,772 --> 00:05:13,560
But these particular skeletal muscle cells

102
00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:18,420
are even more, sort of special,
because they merge.

103
00:05:18,420 --> 00:05:19,951
They have to merge because

104
00:05:19,951 --> 00:05:23,908
a muscle fibre is actually 
a large fibre with lots of nuclei.

105
00:05:23,908 --> 00:05:26,014
It's a merger of a number of cells,

106
00:05:26,014 --> 00:05:28,166
and they do that 
pretty much by themselves.

107
00:05:28,166 --> 00:05:31,101
The only thing that we do 
is we starve them,

108
00:05:31,101 --> 00:05:32,439
and once we starve them,

109
00:05:32,439 --> 00:05:36,912
they stop proliferating and
they start to merge into large fibers.

110
00:05:36,912 --> 00:05:39,491
And then there is another cool thing,

111
00:05:40,221 --> 00:05:43,677
that if you put them in a petri dish

112
00:05:43,677 --> 00:05:46,170
and you provide anchor points.

113
00:05:46,208 --> 00:05:48,208
-- and we use velcro for that,

114
00:05:48,208 --> 00:05:57,354
klittenbands, I bought this morning 
at the Hema here in Haarlem.

115
00:05:57,354 --> 00:06:01,272
And so we use actually 
the loop part of the velcro,

116
00:06:01,272 --> 00:06:03,968
it works a little bit better 
than the hook part,

117
00:06:03,968 --> 00:06:06,761
don't ask me why 
but it's just empirical.

118
00:06:06,761 --> 00:06:10,037
And we actually use 
the same from the Heima.

119
00:06:10,037 --> 00:06:13,287
And if you put that 
in your petri dish

120
00:06:13,287 --> 00:06:16,026
and you provide 
anchor points for those cells,

121
00:06:16,026 --> 00:06:17,822
they start to grab on it.

122
00:06:17,822 --> 00:06:20,928
They are actually 
exercise junkies, if you like,

123
00:06:20,928 --> 00:06:23,379
so we don't have to do anything 
they exercise themselves,

124
00:06:23,379 --> 00:06:25,403
they grab onto these anchor points

125
00:06:25,403 --> 00:06:28,867
and provide tension 
and they form a muscle,

126
00:06:28,867 --> 00:06:30,577
I will show a picture 
a little bit later.

127
00:06:30,577 --> 00:06:33,698
They form a muscle, provide tension, 
start to contract even,

128
00:06:33,698 --> 00:06:37,681
and with that they will 
exercise themselves

129
00:06:37,681 --> 00:06:41,099
and they will grow tissue, 
muscle fibers, small muscle fibers.

130
00:06:41,099 --> 00:06:45,760
If you just take a large number 
of those muscle fibers,

131
00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:53,373
20,000 to be exact, you can assemble 
a patty, a hamburger,

132
00:06:53,373 --> 00:06:56,204
and that's exactly what we have done.

133
00:06:56,204 --> 00:06:57,900
Of course you can also add fat to it.

134
00:06:57,900 --> 00:07:03,045
Now this hamburger contains
60 billion cells, so that's a lot.

135
00:07:03,045 --> 00:07:04,844
You need to culture a lot of cells

136
00:07:04,844 --> 00:07:09,433
and you need to somehow find 
a way to do that efficiently

137
00:07:09,433 --> 00:07:12,628
because, remember, we have to be
more efficient than a cow or a pig.

138
00:07:13,766 --> 00:07:18,015
Currently we are using 
an inefficient system for it,

139
00:07:18,015 --> 00:07:20,799
and eventually we are going
to use a bioreactor,

140
00:07:20,799 --> 00:07:23,950
a silver tank like this of 25,000 litre

141
00:07:23,950 --> 00:07:27,087
that is a sizeable pool, 
an olympic pool I guess,

142
00:07:27,087 --> 00:07:30,408
but with that you can feed 
40,000 people per year,

143
00:07:30,408 --> 00:07:33,321
so that is already reasonable.

144
00:07:33,321 --> 00:07:35,466
Of course, I already said,

145
00:07:35,466 --> 00:07:38,851
it has to be efficient 
and it has to also be meat,

146
00:07:38,851 --> 00:07:40,761
not some kind of substitute.

147
00:07:40,761 --> 00:07:44,110
We have more than enough substitutes,
from vegetable proteins.

148
00:07:44,110 --> 00:07:46,645
It needs really to be meat.

149
00:07:46,645 --> 00:07:49,511
And nothing less and nothing more.

150
00:07:49,511 --> 00:07:54,810
So mimicry is very very important, 
now what do you want in meat?

151
00:07:54,810 --> 00:08:00,263
You want of course taste, 
you want it to be red or pink or whatever

152
00:08:00,448 --> 00:08:02,415
but not yellow or white,

153
00:08:03,396 --> 00:08:08,007
and you want to have that 
particular mouthfeel of the meat.

154
00:08:08,517 --> 00:08:12,645
So how do we do that?
Well, currently this is where we are.

155
00:08:12,645 --> 00:08:17,894
This hamburger on your left 
was assembled a couple of weeks ago

156
00:08:18,487 --> 00:08:21,057
from 8,000 of those muscle strips

157
00:08:21,057 --> 00:08:24,667
individually prepared 
in these culture dishes,

158
00:08:24,667 --> 00:08:25,872
taken out, harvested,

159
00:08:25,872 --> 00:08:28,263
making a patty out of it.

160
00:08:28,263 --> 00:08:31,054
And you see it's pretty close,
wouldn't you say?

161
00:08:31,054 --> 00:08:32,989
Reasonably close.

162
00:08:33,649 --> 00:08:35,762
On the other side 
you see the cooked one,

163
00:08:35,762 --> 00:08:42,409
actually, one is a regular one 
from a cow, and the other is ours.

164
00:08:42,409 --> 00:08:46,014
And most of the people we fooled

165
00:08:46,014 --> 00:08:50,644
by letting them guess which one is 
which, they found it hard to tell.

166
00:08:52,091 --> 00:08:59,586
We did cheat a little bit here, 
because we painted this hamburger

167
00:08:59,586 --> 00:09:02,466
with beet juice from red beets
which are actually purple

168
00:09:02,466 --> 00:09:04,610
so we added 
a little bit of saffron to it

169
00:09:04,610 --> 00:09:07,610
to make it a little bit 
more yellow and red.

170
00:09:07,610 --> 00:09:11,069
So the fibers are not quite red yet, 
they are yellow to be honest,

171
00:09:11,069 --> 00:09:12,884
because there is 
no blood in the system

172
00:09:12,884 --> 00:09:16,593
and what's more, there is 
no myoglobin in the system

173
00:09:16,593 --> 00:09:18,222
or not enough myoglobin.

174
00:09:18,222 --> 00:09:20,892
Myoglobin is a protein 
in those skeletal muscle cells

175
00:09:20,892 --> 00:09:23,396
that is very similar 
to hemoglobin in our blood.

176
00:09:23,396 --> 00:09:26,910
It turns red if 
it's exposed to oxygen,

177
00:09:26,910 --> 00:09:29,477
and muscle cells typically 
have a whole lot of it.

178
00:09:29,477 --> 00:09:33,201
Now, there are a fair amount of clues

179
00:09:33,201 --> 00:09:38,834
how you would induce 
that myoglobin in these tissues,

180
00:09:38,834 --> 00:09:41,386
and a talented postdoc in the lab

181
00:09:41,386 --> 00:09:45,652
started to work on actually 
starving the cells of oxygen.

182
00:09:45,652 --> 00:09:49,062
So low oxygen, we have systems
for that, very easy to do,

183
00:09:49,062 --> 00:09:52,779
and then you see that myoglobin 
actually goes five fold up.

184
00:09:52,779 --> 00:09:55,460
There was also a report that caffeine, 
which is kind of interesting,

185
00:09:55,460 --> 00:09:58,613
caffeine would also 
induce that myoglobin,

186
00:09:58,613 --> 00:10:01,058
so the only thing is 
you couldn't eat hamburgers at night

187
00:10:01,058 --> 00:10:03,340
but, you know, that's a minor detail.

188
00:10:03,340 --> 00:10:06,386
Fortunately for us, 
the caffeine really didn't work,

189
00:10:06,386 --> 00:10:09,921
so we can revert to the lower oxygen,

190
00:10:09,921 --> 00:10:14,004
and we can in that way 
stimulate the myoglobin

191
00:10:14,004 --> 00:10:16,679
and turn our fibers into pink fibers.

192
00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,336
We haven't done that yet

193
00:10:18,336 --> 00:10:20,266
because we have only one 
of those incubators

194
00:10:20,266 --> 00:10:22,333
with a low oxygen capacity

195
00:10:22,333 --> 00:10:24,172
so all the others are
just regular oxygen

196
00:10:24,172 --> 00:10:26,337
but that's just a matter 
of how you organize it,

197
00:10:26,337 --> 00:10:27,653
it can be done.

198
00:10:29,688 --> 00:10:31,495
Of course we need to feed those cells.

199
00:10:31,495 --> 00:10:33,795
-- now we get to efficiency --

200
00:10:33,795 --> 00:10:34,775
We still need to feed them.

201
00:10:34,775 --> 00:10:37,328
We need to feed them sugars, 
we need to feed them aminoacids,

202
00:10:37,328 --> 00:10:38,901
we need to feed them lipids.

203
00:10:38,901 --> 00:10:43,194
Which by the way also gives us 
opportunities to change,

204
00:10:43,194 --> 00:10:46,067
use the biochemistry of the cell,

205
00:10:46,067 --> 00:10:49,342
of that very smart cell, 
which we really don't do anything with

206
00:10:49,342 --> 00:10:53,279
other than feeding it,
and providing those anchor points.

207
00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:55,971
We use the biochemistry of these cells

208
00:10:55,971 --> 00:10:58,580
to produce more 
polyunsaturated fatty acids.

209
00:10:58,580 --> 00:11:02,475
We know they can do it, 
because if grazing animals

210
00:11:02,475 --> 00:11:09,000
have a higher polyunsaturated
fatty acid fat

211
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,810
than animals being fed
from a feed lock,

212
00:11:11,810 --> 00:11:13,994
so we know they have 
the capacity to do it,

213
00:11:13,994 --> 00:11:15,583
they just usually don't.

214
00:11:15,583 --> 00:11:18,364
So we can use 
that biochemistry in the lab

215
00:11:18,364 --> 00:11:22,290
because we have all those variables 
very tightly under control

216
00:11:22,290 --> 00:11:24,947
to make it more efficient,
to provide those proteins,

217
00:11:24,947 --> 00:11:26,876
and aminoacids in the right way,

218
00:11:26,876 --> 00:11:33,519
and to give fatty acids 
to make it into a healthier fat

219
00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:35,141
and a healthier burger.

220
00:11:37,821 --> 00:11:39,522
So this is the system,

221
00:11:39,522 --> 00:11:43,531
it looks like a refrigerator 
but it's in fact the opposite

222
00:11:43,531 --> 00:11:46,813
it's 37º C like our body, 
we call it an incubator.

223
00:11:46,813 --> 00:11:49,507
And the cells grow 
in there for a while.

224
00:11:49,507 --> 00:11:54,312
It takes about 7-8 weeks 
to grow a muscle fiber

225
00:11:54,312 --> 00:11:57,329
and so also 7-8 weeks
to grow a hamburger.

226
00:11:57,329 --> 00:11:59,627
You could do it at home if you like.

227
00:12:01,164 --> 00:12:03,494
Needs quite a bit of space still, but

228
00:12:03,494 --> 00:12:05,360
eventually you can do it at home

229
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,942
in your kitchen if you have
the right equipment,

230
00:12:08,942 --> 00:12:10,942
it's very very easy to do.

231
00:12:10,942 --> 00:12:12,942
And in fact those stem cells, 
which is kind of interesting,

232
00:12:12,942 --> 00:12:16,006
that you could envision they survive

233
00:12:16,006 --> 00:12:18,968
freezing drying, so you could envision

234
00:12:18,968 --> 00:12:21,454
that over the internet, 
we would eventually sell

235
00:12:21,454 --> 00:12:24,406
little, sort of, tea bags of stem cells

236
00:12:24,406 --> 00:12:29,120
from tuna, from tiger, 
from cows, from pigs,

237
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,565
from whatever animal you can imagine!

238
00:12:31,565 --> 00:12:33,290
And then you could in your own--

239
00:12:33,290 --> 00:12:35,189
in the comfort of your own kitchen,

240
00:12:35,189 --> 00:12:37,408
you could grow your own tissue.

241
00:12:37,588 --> 00:12:38,723
You would have to know

242
00:12:38,723 --> 00:12:40,406
8 weeks in advance
what you want to eat,

243
00:12:40,406 --> 00:12:42,006
because it takes a while.

244
00:12:42,006 --> 00:12:43,346
(Laughter)

245
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But it's a minor detail.

246
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Anyway. So the process right now, 
what I'm trying to tell you,

247
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the process right now 
is not really efficient.

248
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But we have all the variables 
under control so that

249
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we can eventually make it efficient.

250
00:12:56,024 --> 00:12:58,801
And if we go from 2D to 3D culture,

251
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we actually make 
a huge step in efficiency.

252
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So, that's our next step.

253
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And we also are dreaming of feeding 
those cells algae, salt-water algae.

254
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I'm thinking that 
the first factory is going to be

255
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at the mouth of the Mississippi,

256
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which is an algae dead zone,

257
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a huge, huge algae dead zone,

258
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that we can harvest those algae there,

259
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mesh them up and
feed them to our cells,

260
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because these cells 
are not very picky.

261
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So, you could combine
those technologies

262
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to make it even more efficient and

263
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you can also build in recycling 
mechanisms to improve the efficiency.

264
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And then of course 
I've already told you that

265
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these are exercise junkies.

266
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They really perform labor in there,

267
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but we want to get 
from a muscle like this

268
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to what I call a "Schwarzenegger bull".

269
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This is in fact a blanc bleu belge.

270
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I don't know whether 
you recognize them,

271
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this is a particular strain in Belgium,

272
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and these animals 
actually have a mutation,

273
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a natural mutation in a protein 
that limits muscle growth.

274
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So, we don't want limitation 
of muscle growth in the petri dish,

275
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so, we are also using the stem cells 
of these guys to see

276
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whether we can improve
protein concentration.

277
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Now, this is the cool part.

278
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Imagine those cells where
we have taken them out of a biopsy.

279
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They grow out of that muscle.

280
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They have become from 1 to 10 ^14 cells, 
10,000 kilos of meat,

281
00:14:31,545 --> 00:14:35,316
and then we put them in a gel 
in between two anchor points.

282
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And you see that on your left here,

283
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and it's a gel and 
here the anchors are not velcro

284
00:14:41,396 --> 00:14:43,610
but are silk wires, it's all the same.

285
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24 hours after this, 
if you take the same picture,

286
00:14:47,295 --> 00:14:49,072
they have organized that gel,

287
00:14:49,072 --> 00:14:51,689
and they have organized it 
into a muscle fiber

288
00:14:51,689 --> 00:14:53,386
in between those anchor points.

289
00:14:53,386 --> 00:14:55,545
Basically, already a muscle.

290
00:14:55,545 --> 00:14:58,462
Then they need another 
three weeks of maturing

291
00:14:58,462 --> 00:15:01,086
to build a full muscle.

292
00:15:02,661 --> 00:15:05,184
Now, we can also electro-stimulate them, 
we can zap them.

293
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then they will contract even more 
and they will produce fibers

294
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that are indistinguishable 
from the real thing.

295
00:15:13,099 --> 00:15:14,650
But of course, 
that takes a lot of energy.

296
00:15:14,650 --> 00:15:18,250
And in fact our muscle in our body 
is not really electrically stimulated,

297
00:15:18,250 --> 00:15:21,049
it's chemically stimulated,
so we might eventually

298
00:15:21,049 --> 00:15:24,650
take another mechanism 
and give the chemical stimulus

299
00:15:24,650 --> 00:15:28,249
sort of in a repetitive manner 
to train those muscles even more.

300
00:15:28,249 --> 00:15:30,118
And now you would say,
the skeletal muscle

301
00:15:30,118 --> 00:15:33,784
is not the only component of meat.

302
00:15:33,784 --> 00:15:37,191
We want fat in there,
we want really marbled steaks,

303
00:15:37,191 --> 00:15:40,383
we want, you know, juicy stuff.

304
00:15:40,383 --> 00:15:43,609
And maybe you want a T-bone steak even, 
if you are really into it.

305
00:15:45,039 --> 00:15:47,106
So, can you make that as well?

306
00:15:47,106 --> 00:15:48,555
And of course 
we can make that as well,

307
00:15:48,555 --> 00:15:51,159
we can pretty much make everything.

308
00:15:51,159 --> 00:15:53,522
Excuse me, I'm going too fast.

309
00:15:53,522 --> 00:15:56,002
We can make those-- 
we can use those stem cells also

310
00:15:56,002 --> 00:15:58,409
to create fat tissue.

311
00:15:58,409 --> 00:16:00,658
And in fact, we have already done that.

312
00:16:00,658 --> 00:16:04,723
For the current prototype 
hamburger we haven't yet,

313
00:16:04,723 --> 00:16:08,317
because it's really cumbersome 
to do them all at the same time,

314
00:16:08,317 --> 00:16:11,752
but it can be done and 
we have shown that it can be done.

315
00:16:11,752 --> 00:16:16,587
And currently we are using that 
with very varied methods

316
00:16:16,587 --> 00:16:19,585
that are compatible with eating.

317
00:16:19,585 --> 00:16:22,503
Now currently we are 
making these small fibers,

318
00:16:22,503 --> 00:16:25,836
which is good for processed meats 
such as a hamburger,

319
00:16:25,836 --> 00:16:31,477
and which is, by the way, about 50 %
of all the meat consumption;

320
00:16:31,477 --> 00:16:34,197
so, you know, even
if we would stick to that,

321
00:16:34,197 --> 00:16:37,197
we would already make 
a big step ahead,

322
00:16:37,197 --> 00:16:40,835
but my ambition is actually 
to make a steak or a pork chop.

323
00:16:40,835 --> 00:16:45,503
So what would you need to do,
that's a limitation of tissue engineering

324
00:16:45,503 --> 00:16:50,101
because the thicker the tissue gets, 
the inside cells

325
00:16:50,101 --> 00:16:52,752
will be deprived 
of nutrients and of oxygen,

326
00:16:52,752 --> 00:16:55,168
so they will start to die.

327
00:16:55,168 --> 00:16:57,182
So, that's why we have blood vessels,

328
00:16:57,822 --> 00:17:00,157
and I also make blood vessels,

329
00:17:00,157 --> 00:17:02,157
I would like to make blood vessels, 
it's not particularly

330
00:17:02,157 --> 00:17:04,738
necessary in these tissues 
because we don't have any blood,

331
00:17:04,738 --> 00:17:08,515
but we still need a channel system, 
in a flow system

332
00:17:08,515 --> 00:17:11,518
to get all the nutrients and oxygen

333
00:17:11,518 --> 00:17:14,280
to all the nooks and
crannies of that tissue.

334
00:17:15,516 --> 00:17:17,289
And that can be done.

335
00:17:17,289 --> 00:17:20,077
Friends of mine in California 
have a 3D printer

336
00:17:20,077 --> 00:17:23,198
where you 3D print, basically, 
a steak, you print the cells

337
00:17:23,198 --> 00:17:25,622
and you print the material, 
and you print those little tubes

338
00:17:25,622 --> 00:17:29,279
in a hierarchical manner and 
you have an inflow and an outflow

339
00:17:29,279 --> 00:17:33,169
and you can create,
in principle, thicker tissues.

340
00:17:33,169 --> 00:17:35,998
So eventually we can create steaks 
and pork chops if you,

341
00:17:35,998 --> 00:17:37,955
again, are into it.

342
00:17:38,557 --> 00:17:42,410
OK, so then there is another 
final challenge, minor one.

343
00:17:42,410 --> 00:17:44,622
Will people ever eat this?

344
00:17:44,622 --> 00:17:46,879
It's coming out of a factory, 
or out of a lab even,

345
00:17:46,879 --> 00:17:52,190
it's sort of Frankenstein-ish, 
creepy, you know, whatever...

346
00:17:52,190 --> 00:17:56,877
So will people eat this? 
And if you go with a microphone

347
00:17:56,877 --> 00:18:00,293
through the streets of Haarlem 
and you, sort of randomly ask people,

348
00:18:00,293 --> 00:18:04,396
they'll say, "No way, 
are you out of your mind?"

349
00:18:04,396 --> 00:18:08,997
But if you rephrase the question: 
"So, 20 years from now,

350
00:18:08,997 --> 00:18:10,042
you walk into a supermarket

351
00:18:10,042 --> 00:18:11,677
and you see those two products, 
those two meats.

352
00:18:11,677 --> 00:18:13,757
One is made in the lab, 
it has an LM (lean meat) on it,

353
00:18:13,757 --> 00:18:16,678
and it's cheap and 
it's at the same price,

354
00:18:16,678 --> 00:18:21,460
it's the same taste, and the same color 
and the same mouthfeel,

355
00:18:21,460 --> 00:18:23,708
and you have these other products 
that now has an eco tax

356
00:18:23,708 --> 00:18:26,117
is four times more expensive 
because it's scarce,

357
00:18:26,117 --> 00:18:28,057
and it also has this nasty little label

358
00:18:28,057 --> 00:18:30,437
that animals have suffered 
for that product,

359
00:18:30,437 --> 00:18:32,598
what are you going to choose?"

360
00:18:32,598 --> 00:18:36,708
I bet the choice is going to be, 
you know, favorable

361
00:18:36,708 --> 00:18:39,999
in terms of 
this particular product.

362
00:18:39,999 --> 00:18:43,479
Currently this hamburger
costs 250,000 euros.

363
00:18:43,479 --> 00:18:47,709
Hmm, and I'd like to stress that, 
and also to make the point

364
00:18:47,709 --> 00:18:50,917
that it's not a real product yet, 
it's a proof of concept.

365
00:18:50,917 --> 00:18:53,792
Showing to the world, 
guys, we can do this.

366
00:18:53,792 --> 00:18:57,119
We can make this product 
in an efficient way.

367
00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:58,839
We actually have done
some calculations which

368
00:18:58,839 --> 00:19:02,676
come down to 
a much more reasonable price.

369
00:19:02,676 --> 00:19:06,036
But we can do this, 
and my ambition is

370
00:19:06,036 --> 00:19:08,805
to gather a lot of people 
and a lot of money

371
00:19:08,805 --> 00:19:12,756
to do all the research 
that's required to, sort of

372
00:19:12,756 --> 00:19:18,308
take out all the small obstacles 
and get these onto your plates basically.

373
00:19:19,103 --> 00:19:20,517
Thank you.

374
00:19:20,517 --> 00:19:25,843
(Applause)