1 00:00:00,794 --> 00:00:03,210 Hi. So I'd like to talk a little bit about the people 2 00:00:03,210 --> 00:00:05,739 who make the things we use every day: 3 00:00:05,739 --> 00:00:09,499 our shoes, our handbags, our computers and cell phones. 4 00:00:09,499 --> 00:00:13,945 Now, this is a conversation that often calls up a lot of guilt. 5 00:00:13,945 --> 00:00:17,536 Imagine the teenage farm girl who makes less than 6 00:00:17,536 --> 00:00:20,392 a dollar an hour stitching your running shoes, 7 00:00:20,392 --> 00:00:23,090 or the young Chinese man who jumps off a rooftop 8 00:00:23,090 --> 00:00:27,130 after working overtime assembling your iPad. 9 00:00:27,130 --> 00:00:30,738 We, the beneficiaries of globalization, seem to exploit 10 00:00:30,738 --> 00:00:33,441 these victims with every purchase we make, 11 00:00:33,441 --> 00:00:35,074 and the injustice 12 00:00:35,074 --> 00:00:38,163 feels embedded in the products themselves. 13 00:00:38,163 --> 00:00:40,723 After all, what's wrong with a world in which a worker 14 00:00:40,723 --> 00:00:44,499 on an iPhone assembly line can't even afford to buy one? 15 00:00:44,499 --> 00:00:47,149 It's taken for granted that Chinese factories are oppressive, 16 00:00:47,149 --> 00:00:49,880 and that it's our desire for cheap goods 17 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,241 that makes them so. 18 00:00:52,241 --> 00:00:56,056 So, this simple narrative equating Western demand 19 00:00:56,056 --> 00:00:58,868 and Chinese suffering is appealing, 20 00:00:58,868 --> 00:01:01,503 especially at a time when many of us already feel guilty 21 00:01:01,503 --> 00:01:04,081 about our impact on the world, 22 00:01:04,081 --> 00:01:07,864 but it's also inaccurate and disrespectful. 23 00:01:07,864 --> 00:01:10,848 We must be peculiarly self-obsessed to imagine that we 24 00:01:10,848 --> 00:01:14,016 have the power to drive tens of millions of people 25 00:01:14,016 --> 00:01:16,728 on the other side of the world to migrate and suffer 26 00:01:16,728 --> 00:01:19,523 in such terrible ways. 27 00:01:19,523 --> 00:01:22,341 In fact, China makes goods for markets all over the world, 28 00:01:22,341 --> 00:01:25,929 including its own, thanks to a combination of factors: 29 00:01:25,929 --> 00:01:29,335 its low costs, its large and educated workforce, 30 00:01:29,335 --> 00:01:31,801 and a flexible manufacturing system 31 00:01:31,801 --> 00:01:34,952 that responds quickly to market demands. 32 00:01:34,952 --> 00:01:38,001 By focusing so much on ourselves and our gadgets, 33 00:01:38,001 --> 00:01:40,464 we have rendered the individuals on the other end 34 00:01:40,464 --> 00:01:43,824 into invisibility, as tiny and interchangeable 35 00:01:43,824 --> 00:01:46,879 as the parts of a mobile phone. 36 00:01:46,879 --> 00:01:49,544 Chinese workers are not forced into factories 37 00:01:49,544 --> 00:01:52,023 because of our insatiable desire for iPods. 38 00:01:52,023 --> 00:01:55,095 They choose to leave their homes in order to earn money, 39 00:01:55,095 --> 00:01:59,048 to learn new skills, and to see the world. 40 00:01:59,048 --> 00:02:01,441 In the ongoing debate about globalization, what's 41 00:02:01,441 --> 00:02:04,872 been missing is the voices of the workers themselves. 42 00:02:04,872 --> 00:02:07,177 Here are a few. 43 00:02:07,177 --> 00:02:10,926 Bao Yongxiu: "My mother tells me to come home 44 00:02:10,926 --> 00:02:14,650 and get married, but if I marry now, before I have fully 45 00:02:14,650 --> 00:02:18,735 developed myself, I can only marry an ordinary worker, 46 00:02:18,735 --> 00:02:21,238 so I'm not in a rush." 47 00:02:21,238 --> 00:02:24,280 Chen Ying: "When I went home for the new year, 48 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,536 everyone said I had changed. They asked me, 49 00:02:27,536 --> 00:02:30,633 what did you do that you have changed so much? 50 00:02:30,633 --> 00:02:33,911 I told them that I studied and worked hard. If you tell them 51 00:02:33,911 --> 00:02:37,279 more, they won't understand anyway." 52 00:02:37,279 --> 00:02:40,664 Wu Chunming: "Even if I make a lot of money, 53 00:02:40,664 --> 00:02:42,815 it won't satisfy me. 54 00:02:42,815 --> 00:02:47,184 Just to make money is not enough meaning in life." 55 00:02:47,184 --> 00:02:51,896 Xiao Jin: "Now, after I get off work, I study English, 56 00:02:51,896 --> 00:02:53,685 because in the future, our customers won't 57 00:02:53,685 --> 00:02:57,547 be only Chinese, so we must learn more languages." 58 00:02:57,547 --> 00:03:00,318 All of these speakers, by the way, are young women, 59 00:03:00,318 --> 00:03:03,400 18 or 19 years old. 60 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,342 So I spent two years getting to know assembly line workers 61 00:03:06,342 --> 00:03:10,271 like these in the south China factory city called Dongguan. 62 00:03:10,271 --> 00:03:12,791 Certain subjects came up over and over: 63 00:03:12,791 --> 00:03:14,695 how much money they made, 64 00:03:14,695 --> 00:03:17,074 what kind of husband they hoped to marry, 65 00:03:17,074 --> 00:03:19,199 whether they should jump to another factory 66 00:03:19,199 --> 00:03:21,399 or stay where they were. 67 00:03:21,399 --> 00:03:23,592 Other subjects came up almost never, including 68 00:03:23,592 --> 00:03:27,039 living conditions that to me looked close to prison life: 69 00:03:27,039 --> 00:03:29,322 10 or 15 workers in one room, 70 00:03:29,322 --> 00:03:32,681 50 people sharing a single bathroom, 71 00:03:32,681 --> 00:03:36,015 days and nights ruled by the factory clock. 72 00:03:36,015 --> 00:03:39,503 Everyone they knew lived in similar circumstances, 73 00:03:39,503 --> 00:03:42,264 and it was still better than the dormitories and homes 74 00:03:42,264 --> 00:03:44,832 of rural China. 75 00:03:44,832 --> 00:03:47,558 The workers rarely spoke about the products they made, 76 00:03:47,558 --> 00:03:49,902 and they often had great difficulty explaining 77 00:03:49,902 --> 00:03:52,344 what exactly they did. 78 00:03:52,344 --> 00:03:54,055 When I asked Lu Qingmin, 79 00:03:54,055 --> 00:03:56,157 the young woman I got to know best, 80 00:03:56,157 --> 00:03:58,624 what exactly she did on the factory floor, 81 00:03:58,624 --> 00:04:01,029 she said something to me in Chinese that sounded like 82 00:04:01,029 --> 00:04:02,806 "qiu xi." 83 00:04:02,806 --> 00:04:05,775 Only much later did I realize that she had been saying 84 00:04:05,775 --> 00:04:08,999 "QC," or quality control. 85 00:04:08,999 --> 00:04:12,862 She couldn't even tell me what she did on the factory floor. 86 00:04:12,862 --> 00:04:15,319 All she could do was parrot a garbled abbreviation 87 00:04:15,319 --> 00:04:19,313 in a language she didn't even understand. 88 00:04:19,313 --> 00:04:22,935 Karl Marx saw this as the tragedy of capitalism, 89 00:04:22,935 --> 00:04:26,978 the alienation of the worker from the product of his labor. 90 00:04:26,978 --> 00:04:30,602 Unlike, say, a traditional maker of shoes or cabinets, 91 00:04:30,602 --> 00:04:33,849 the worker in an industrial factory has no control, 92 00:04:33,849 --> 00:04:37,106 no pleasure, and no true satisfaction or understanding 93 00:04:37,106 --> 00:04:39,297 in her own work. 94 00:04:39,297 --> 00:04:41,713 But like so many theories that Marx arrived at 95 00:04:41,713 --> 00:04:44,532 sitting in the reading room of the British Museum, 96 00:04:44,532 --> 00:04:47,358 he got this one wrong. 97 00:04:47,358 --> 00:04:49,657 Just because a person spends her time 98 00:04:49,657 --> 00:04:52,425 making a piece of something does not mean 99 00:04:52,425 --> 00:04:54,977 that she becomes that, a piece of something. 100 00:04:54,977 --> 00:04:58,080 What she does with the money she earns, 101 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,585 what she learns in that place, and how it changes her, 102 00:05:01,585 --> 00:05:04,346 these are the things that matter. 103 00:05:04,346 --> 00:05:06,646 What a factory makes is never the point, and 104 00:05:06,646 --> 00:05:10,730 the workers could not care less who buys their products. 105 00:05:10,730 --> 00:05:13,218 Journalistic coverage of Chinese factories, 106 00:05:13,218 --> 00:05:15,330 on the other hand, plays up this relationship 107 00:05:15,330 --> 00:05:18,159 between the workers and the products they make. 108 00:05:18,159 --> 00:05:21,248 Many articles calculate: How long would it take 109 00:05:21,248 --> 00:05:24,092 for this worker to work in order to earn enough money 110 00:05:24,092 --> 00:05:26,552 to buy what he's making? 111 00:05:26,552 --> 00:05:29,040 For example, an entry-level-line assembly line worker 112 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,312 in China in an iPhone plant would have to shell out 113 00:05:32,312 --> 00:05:35,857 two and a half months' wages for an iPhone. 114 00:05:35,857 --> 00:05:39,194 But how meaningful is this calculation, really? 115 00:05:39,194 --> 00:05:41,184 For example, I recently wrote an article 116 00:05:41,184 --> 00:05:42,162 in The New Yorker magazine, 117 00:05:42,162 --> 00:05:45,401 but I can't afford to buy an ad in it. 118 00:05:45,401 --> 00:05:47,457 But, who cares? I don't want an ad in The New Yorker, 119 00:05:47,457 --> 00:05:50,322 and most of these workers don't really want iPhones. 120 00:05:50,322 --> 00:05:53,082 Their calculations are different. 121 00:05:53,082 --> 00:05:54,896 How long should I stay in this factory? 122 00:05:54,896 --> 00:05:57,359 How much money can I save? 123 00:05:57,359 --> 00:05:59,929 How much will it take to buy an apartment or a car, 124 00:05:59,929 --> 00:06:04,519 to get married, or to put my child through school? 125 00:06:04,519 --> 00:06:07,210 The workers I got to know had a curiously abstract 126 00:06:07,210 --> 00:06:10,968 relationship with the product of their labor. 127 00:06:10,968 --> 00:06:14,110 About a year after I met Lu Qingmin, or Min, 128 00:06:14,110 --> 00:06:16,144 she invited me home to her family village 129 00:06:16,144 --> 00:06:18,367 for the Chinese New Year. 130 00:06:18,367 --> 00:06:20,753 On the train home, she gave me a present: 131 00:06:20,753 --> 00:06:25,144 a Coach brand change purse with brown leather trim. 132 00:06:25,144 --> 00:06:26,817 I thanked her, assuming it was fake, 133 00:06:26,817 --> 00:06:30,294 like almost everything else for sale in Dongguan. 134 00:06:30,294 --> 00:06:34,103 After we got home, Min gave her mother another present: 135 00:06:34,103 --> 00:06:36,288 a pink Dooney & Bourke handbag, 136 00:06:36,288 --> 00:06:38,711 and a few nights later, her sister was showing off 137 00:06:38,711 --> 00:06:42,215 a maroon LeSportsac shoulder bag. 138 00:06:42,215 --> 00:06:46,015 Slowly it was dawning on me that these handbags 139 00:06:46,015 --> 00:06:48,032 were made by their factory, 140 00:06:48,032 --> 00:06:51,198 and every single one of them was authentic. 141 00:06:51,198 --> 00:06:53,663 Min's sister said to her parents, 142 00:06:53,663 --> 00:06:57,025 "In America, this bag sells for 320 dollars." 143 00:06:57,025 --> 00:07:00,064 Her parents, who are both farmers, looked on, speechless. 144 00:07:00,064 --> 00:07:02,623 "And that's not all -- Coach is coming out with a new line, 145 00:07:02,623 --> 00:07:07,424 2191," she said. "One bag will sell for 6,000." 146 00:07:07,424 --> 00:07:11,671 She paused and said, "I don't know if that's 6,000 yuan or 147 00:07:11,671 --> 00:07:17,318 6,000 American dollars, but anyway, it's 6,000." (Laughter) 148 00:07:17,318 --> 00:07:19,913 Min's sister's boyfriend, who had traveled home with her 149 00:07:19,913 --> 00:07:22,030 for the new year, said, 150 00:07:22,030 --> 00:07:24,863 "It doesn't look like it's worth that much." 151 00:07:24,863 --> 00:07:27,688 Min's sister turned to him and said, "Some people actually 152 00:07:27,688 --> 00:07:31,232 understand these things. You don't understand shit." 153 00:07:31,232 --> 00:07:35,887 (Laughter) (Applause) 154 00:07:35,887 --> 00:07:39,927 In Min's world, the Coach bags had a curious currency. 155 00:07:39,927 --> 00:07:42,247 They weren't exactly worthless, but they were nothing 156 00:07:42,247 --> 00:07:44,957 close to the actual value, because almost no one they knew 157 00:07:44,957 --> 00:07:48,887 wanted to buy one, or knew how much it was worth. 158 00:07:48,887 --> 00:07:52,242 Once, when Min's older sister's friend got married, 159 00:07:52,242 --> 00:07:55,070 she brought a handbag along as a wedding present. 160 00:07:55,070 --> 00:07:57,238 Another time, after Min had already left 161 00:07:57,238 --> 00:08:00,380 the handbag factory, her younger sister came to visit, 162 00:08:00,380 --> 00:08:04,491 bringing two Coach Signature handbags as gifts. 163 00:08:04,491 --> 00:08:06,566 I looked in the zippered pocket of one, 164 00:08:06,566 --> 00:08:10,805 and I found a printed card in English, which read, 165 00:08:10,805 --> 00:08:14,063 "An American classic. 166 00:08:14,063 --> 00:08:16,573 In 1941, the burnished patina 167 00:08:16,573 --> 00:08:18,935 of an all-American baseball glove 168 00:08:18,935 --> 00:08:21,135 inspired the founder of Coach to create 169 00:08:21,135 --> 00:08:23,544 a new collection of handbags from the same 170 00:08:23,544 --> 00:08:26,753 luxuriously soft gloved-hand leather. 171 00:08:26,753 --> 00:08:30,928 Six skilled leatherworkers crafted 12 Signature handbags 172 00:08:30,928 --> 00:08:35,064 with perfect proportions and a timeless flair. 173 00:08:35,064 --> 00:08:37,344 They were fresh, functional, and women everywhere 174 00:08:37,344 --> 00:08:42,680 adored them. A new American classic was born." 175 00:08:42,680 --> 00:08:45,006 I wonder what Karl Marx would have made of Min 176 00:08:45,006 --> 00:08:46,914 and her sisters. 177 00:08:46,914 --> 00:08:49,521 Their relationship with the product of their labor 178 00:08:49,521 --> 00:08:51,816 was more complicated, surprising and funny 179 00:08:51,816 --> 00:08:54,074 than he could have imagined. 180 00:08:54,074 --> 00:08:56,897 And yet, his view of the world persists, and our tendency 181 00:08:56,897 --> 00:08:59,506 to see the workers as faceless masses, 182 00:08:59,506 --> 00:09:03,380 to imagine that we can know what they're really thinking. 183 00:09:03,380 --> 00:09:06,781 The first time I met Min, she had just turned 18 184 00:09:06,781 --> 00:09:09,436 and quit her first job on the assembly line 185 00:09:09,436 --> 00:09:11,751 of an electronics factory. 186 00:09:11,751 --> 00:09:14,397 Over the next two years, I watched as she switched jobs 187 00:09:14,397 --> 00:09:17,473 five times, eventually landing a lucrative post 188 00:09:17,473 --> 00:09:21,047 in the purchasing department of a hardware factory. 189 00:09:21,047 --> 00:09:23,572 Later, she married a fellow migrant worker, 190 00:09:23,572 --> 00:09:25,714 moved with him to his village, 191 00:09:25,714 --> 00:09:27,917 gave birth to two daughters, 192 00:09:27,917 --> 00:09:30,105 and saved enough money to buy a secondhand Buick 193 00:09:30,105 --> 00:09:34,511 for herself and an apartment for her parents. 194 00:09:34,511 --> 00:09:37,644 She recently returned to Dongguan on her own 195 00:09:37,644 --> 00:09:41,260 to take a job in a factory that makes construction cranes, 196 00:09:41,260 --> 00:09:43,460 temporarily leaving her husband and children 197 00:09:43,460 --> 00:09:45,443 back in the village. 198 00:09:45,443 --> 00:09:48,024 In a recent email to me, she explained, 199 00:09:48,024 --> 00:09:52,070 "A person should have some ambition while she is young 200 00:09:52,070 --> 00:09:54,732 so that in old age she can look back on her life 201 00:09:54,732 --> 00:09:59,515 and feel that it was not lived to no purpose." 202 00:09:59,515 --> 00:10:03,911 Across China, there are 150 million workers like her, 203 00:10:03,911 --> 00:10:06,664 one third of them women, who have left their villages 204 00:10:06,664 --> 00:10:10,207 to work in the factories, the hotels, the restaurants 205 00:10:10,207 --> 00:10:12,812 and the construction sites of the big cities. 206 00:10:12,812 --> 00:10:16,556 Together, they make up the largest migration in history, 207 00:10:16,556 --> 00:10:19,556 and it is globalization, this chain that begins 208 00:10:19,556 --> 00:10:22,075 in a Chinese farming village 209 00:10:22,075 --> 00:10:25,852 and ends with iPhones in our pockets and Nikes on our feet 210 00:10:25,852 --> 00:10:28,276 and Coach handbags on our arms 211 00:10:28,276 --> 00:10:30,565 that has changed the way these millions of people 212 00:10:30,565 --> 00:10:35,478 work and marry and live and think. 213 00:10:35,478 --> 00:10:37,427 Very few of them would want to go back 214 00:10:37,427 --> 00:10:39,984 to the way things used to be. 215 00:10:39,984 --> 00:10:43,164 When I first went to Dongguan, I worried that 216 00:10:43,164 --> 00:10:47,539 it would be depressing to spend so much time with workers. 217 00:10:47,539 --> 00:10:50,310 I also worried that nothing would ever happen to them, 218 00:10:50,310 --> 00:10:52,939 or that they would have nothing to say to me. 219 00:10:52,939 --> 00:10:55,589 Instead, I found young women who were smart and funny 220 00:10:55,589 --> 00:10:58,436 and brave and generous. 221 00:10:58,436 --> 00:11:00,767 By opening up their lives to me, 222 00:11:00,767 --> 00:11:02,973 they taught me so much about factories 223 00:11:02,973 --> 00:11:07,179 and about China and about how to live in the world. 224 00:11:09,486 --> 00:11:12,198 This is the Coach purse that Min gave me 225 00:11:12,198 --> 00:11:14,608 on the train home to visit her family. 226 00:11:14,608 --> 00:11:17,251 I keep it with me to remind me of the ties that tie me 227 00:11:17,251 --> 00:11:19,975 to the young women I wrote about, 228 00:11:19,975 --> 00:11:24,245 ties that are not economic but personal in nature, 229 00:11:24,245 --> 00:11:27,812 measured not in money but in memories. 230 00:11:27,812 --> 00:11:31,231 This purse is also a reminder that the things that you imagine, 231 00:11:31,231 --> 00:11:34,773 sitting in your office or in the library, 232 00:11:34,773 --> 00:11:37,176 are not how you find them when you actually go out 233 00:11:37,176 --> 00:11:38,683 into the world. 234 00:11:38,683 --> 00:11:40,671 Thank you. (Applause) 235 00:11:40,671 --> 00:11:47,343 (Applause) 236 00:11:47,343 --> 00:11:49,412 Chris Anderson: Thank you, Leslie, that was an insight 237 00:11:49,412 --> 00:11:52,009 that a lot of us haven't had before. 238 00:11:52,009 --> 00:11:55,496 But I'm curious. If you had a minute, say, 239 00:11:55,496 --> 00:11:59,217 with Apple's head of manufacturing, 240 00:11:59,217 --> 00:12:01,577 what would you say? 241 00:12:01,577 --> 00:12:02,705 Leslie Chang: One minute? 242 00:12:02,705 --> 00:12:04,218 CA: One minute. (Laughter) 243 00:12:04,218 --> 00:12:06,144 LC: You know, what really impressed me about the workers 244 00:12:06,144 --> 00:12:09,370 is how much they're self-motivated, self-driven, 245 00:12:09,370 --> 00:12:11,987 resourceful, and the thing that struck me, 246 00:12:11,987 --> 00:12:14,952 what they want most is education, to learn, 247 00:12:14,952 --> 00:12:16,499 because most of them come from very poor backgrounds. 248 00:12:16,499 --> 00:12:19,443 They usually left school when they were in 7th or 8th grade. 249 00:12:19,443 --> 00:12:21,682 Their parents are often illiterate, 250 00:12:21,682 --> 00:12:24,322 and then they come to the city, and they, on their own, 251 00:12:24,322 --> 00:12:26,447 at night, during the weekends, they'll take a computer class, 252 00:12:26,447 --> 00:12:28,715 they'll take an English class, and learn 253 00:12:28,715 --> 00:12:30,839 really, really rudimentary things, you know, 254 00:12:30,839 --> 00:12:32,578 like how to type a document in Word, 255 00:12:32,578 --> 00:12:35,242 or how to say really simple things in English. 256 00:12:35,242 --> 00:12:37,370 So, if you really want to help these workers, 257 00:12:37,370 --> 00:12:40,593 start these small, very focused, very pragmatic classes 258 00:12:40,593 --> 00:12:43,722 in these schools, and what's going to happen is, 259 00:12:43,722 --> 00:12:45,141 all your workers are going to move on, 260 00:12:45,141 --> 00:12:48,548 but hopefully they'll move on into higher jobs within Apple, 261 00:12:48,548 --> 00:12:51,489 and you can help their social mobility 262 00:12:51,489 --> 00:12:52,486 and their self-improvement. 263 00:12:52,486 --> 00:12:54,264 When you talk to workers, that's what they want. 264 00:12:54,264 --> 00:12:56,938 They do not say, "I want better hot water in the showers. 265 00:12:56,938 --> 00:12:58,923 I want a nicer room. I want a TV set." 266 00:12:58,923 --> 00:13:00,546 I mean, it would be nice to have those things, 267 00:13:00,546 --> 00:13:01,704 but that's not why they're in the city, 268 00:13:01,704 --> 00:13:03,793 and that's not what they care about. 269 00:13:03,793 --> 00:13:07,343 CA: Was there a sense from them of a narrative that 270 00:13:07,343 --> 00:13:10,755 things were kind of tough and bad, or was there a narrative 271 00:13:10,755 --> 00:13:13,768 of some kind of level of growth, that things over time 272 00:13:13,768 --> 00:13:15,391 were getting better? 273 00:13:15,391 --> 00:13:17,298 LC: Oh definitely, definitely. I mean, you know, 274 00:13:17,298 --> 00:13:19,664 it was interesting, because I spent basically two years 275 00:13:19,664 --> 00:13:21,658 hanging out in this city, Dongguan, 276 00:13:21,658 --> 00:13:23,769 and over that time, you could see immense change 277 00:13:23,769 --> 00:13:26,564 in every person's life: upward, downward, sideways, 278 00:13:26,564 --> 00:13:28,385 but generally upward. 279 00:13:28,385 --> 00:13:30,172 If you spend enough time, it's upward, and I met people 280 00:13:30,172 --> 00:13:32,467 who had moved to the city 10 years ago, and who are now 281 00:13:32,467 --> 00:13:34,574 basically urban middle class people, 282 00:13:34,574 --> 00:13:36,595 so the trajectory is definitely upward. 283 00:13:36,595 --> 00:13:38,530 It's just hard to see when you're suddenly 284 00:13:38,530 --> 00:13:40,651 sucked into the city. It looks like everyone's poor and 285 00:13:40,651 --> 00:13:42,389 desperate, but that's not really how it is. 286 00:13:42,389 --> 00:13:44,543 Certainly, the factory conditions are really tough, 287 00:13:44,543 --> 00:13:46,860 and it's nothing you or I would want to do, 288 00:13:46,860 --> 00:13:50,005 but from their perspective, where they're coming from 289 00:13:50,005 --> 00:13:52,002 is much worse, and where they're going 290 00:13:52,002 --> 00:13:54,010 is hopefully much better, and I just wanted to give 291 00:13:54,010 --> 00:13:56,371 that context of what's going on in their minds, 292 00:13:56,371 --> 00:13:58,734 not what necessarily is going on in yours. 293 00:13:58,734 --> 00:14:00,230 CA: Thanks so much for your talk. 294 00:14:00,230 --> 00:14:04,599 Thank you very much. (Applause)