1 00:00:00,732 --> 00:00:05,901 Once upon a time, the world was a big, dysfunctional family. 2 00:00:05,901 --> 00:00:09,332 It was run by the great and powerful parents, 3 00:00:09,332 --> 00:00:11,667 and the people were helpless 4 00:00:11,667 --> 00:00:14,163 and hopeless naughty children. 5 00:00:14,163 --> 00:00:16,666 If any of the more rowdier children questioned 6 00:00:16,666 --> 00:00:20,243 the authority of the parents, they were scolded. 7 00:00:20,243 --> 00:00:23,276 If they went exploring into the parents' rooms, 8 00:00:23,276 --> 00:00:27,059 or even into the secret filing cabinets, they were punished, 9 00:00:27,059 --> 00:00:29,812 and told that for their own good 10 00:00:29,812 --> 00:00:33,443 they must never go in there again. 11 00:00:33,443 --> 00:00:35,939 Then one day, a man came to town 12 00:00:35,939 --> 00:00:38,737 with boxes and boxes of secret documents 13 00:00:38,737 --> 00:00:40,601 stolen from the parents' rooms. 14 00:00:40,601 --> 00:00:44,627 "Look what they've been hiding from you," he said. 15 00:00:44,627 --> 00:00:47,669 The children looked and were amazed. 16 00:00:47,669 --> 00:00:50,513 There were maps and minutes from meetings 17 00:00:50,513 --> 00:00:53,778 where the parents were slagging each other off. 18 00:00:53,778 --> 00:00:56,326 They behaved just like the children. 19 00:00:56,326 --> 00:01:00,284 And they made mistakes, too, just like the children. 20 00:01:00,284 --> 00:01:02,995 The only difference was, their mistakes 21 00:01:02,995 --> 00:01:05,820 were in the secret filing cabinets. 22 00:01:05,820 --> 00:01:08,625 Well, there was a girl in the town, and she didn't think 23 00:01:08,625 --> 00:01:11,492 they should be in the secret filing cabinets, 24 00:01:11,492 --> 00:01:13,392 or if they were, there ought to be a law 25 00:01:13,392 --> 00:01:15,509 to allow the children access. 26 00:01:15,509 --> 00:01:19,316 And so she set about to make it so. 27 00:01:19,316 --> 00:01:23,162 Well, I'm the girl in that story, and the secret documents 28 00:01:23,162 --> 00:01:26,316 that I was interested in were located in this building, 29 00:01:26,316 --> 00:01:30,678 the British Parliament, and the data that I wanted 30 00:01:30,678 --> 00:01:33,339 to get my hands on were the expense receipts 31 00:01:33,339 --> 00:01:37,228 of members of Parliament. 32 00:01:37,228 --> 00:01:43,467 I thought this was a basic question to ask in a democracy. (Applause) 33 00:01:43,467 --> 00:01:46,374 It wasn't like I was asking for the code to a nuclear bunker, 34 00:01:46,374 --> 00:01:49,227 or anything like that, but the amount of resistance I got 35 00:01:49,227 --> 00:01:51,750 from this Freedom of Information request, 36 00:01:51,750 --> 00:01:54,994 you would have thought I'd asked something like this. 37 00:01:54,994 --> 00:01:59,219 So I fought for about five years doing this, 38 00:01:59,219 --> 00:02:02,691 and it was one of many hundreds of requests that I made, 39 00:02:02,691 --> 00:02:05,644 not -- I didn't -- Hey, look, I didn't set out, honestly, 40 00:02:05,644 --> 00:02:07,293 to revolutionize the British Parliament. 41 00:02:07,293 --> 00:02:10,724 That was not my intention. I was just making these requests 42 00:02:10,724 --> 00:02:13,875 as part of research for my first book. 43 00:02:13,875 --> 00:02:16,740 But it ended up in this very long, protracted legal battle 44 00:02:16,740 --> 00:02:21,115 and there I was after five years fighting against Parliament 45 00:02:21,115 --> 00:02:24,155 in front of three of Britain's most eminent High Court judges 46 00:02:24,155 --> 00:02:28,307 waiting for their ruling about whether or not Parliament had to release this data. 47 00:02:28,307 --> 00:02:30,415 And I've got to tell you, I wasn't that hopeful, 48 00:02:30,415 --> 00:02:33,140 because I'd seen the establishment. I thought, 49 00:02:33,140 --> 00:02:36,496 it always sticks together. I am out of luck. 50 00:02:36,496 --> 00:02:41,082 Well, guess what? I won. Hooray. (Applause) 51 00:02:41,082 --> 00:02:44,505 Well, that's not exactly the story, because the problem was 52 00:02:44,505 --> 00:02:47,859 that Parliament delayed and delayed releasing that data, 53 00:02:47,859 --> 00:02:51,019 and then they tried to retrospectively change the law 54 00:02:51,019 --> 00:02:53,692 so that it would no longer apply to them. 55 00:02:53,692 --> 00:02:56,614 The transparency law they'd passed earlier that applied to everybody else, 56 00:02:56,614 --> 00:02:59,410 they tried to keep it so it didn't apply to them. 57 00:02:59,410 --> 00:03:02,905 What they hadn't counted on was digitization, 58 00:03:02,905 --> 00:03:05,291 because that meant that all those paper receipts 59 00:03:05,291 --> 00:03:08,531 had been scanned in electronically, and it was very easy 60 00:03:08,531 --> 00:03:11,730 for somebody to just copy that entire database, 61 00:03:11,730 --> 00:03:15,664 put it on a disk, and then just saunter outside of Parliament, 62 00:03:15,664 --> 00:03:18,149 which they did, and then they shopped that disk 63 00:03:18,149 --> 00:03:21,107 to the highest bidder, which was the Daily Telegraph, 64 00:03:21,107 --> 00:03:24,314 and then, you all remember, there was weeks and weeks 65 00:03:24,314 --> 00:03:27,339 of revelations, everything from porn movies 66 00:03:27,339 --> 00:03:30,495 and bath plugs and new kitchens 67 00:03:30,495 --> 00:03:33,956 and mortgages that had never been paid off. 68 00:03:33,956 --> 00:03:38,643 The end result was six ministers resigned, 69 00:03:38,643 --> 00:03:42,694 the first speaker of the house in 300 years was forced to resign, 70 00:03:42,694 --> 00:03:46,713 a new government was elected on a mandate of transparency, 71 00:03:46,713 --> 00:03:50,496 120 MPs stepped down at that election, 72 00:03:50,496 --> 00:03:54,987 and so far, four MPs and two lords 73 00:03:54,987 --> 00:03:58,017 have done jail time for fraud. 74 00:03:58,017 --> 00:04:04,395 So, thank you. (Applause) 75 00:04:04,395 --> 00:04:08,670 Well, I tell you that story because it wasn't unique to Britain. 76 00:04:08,670 --> 00:04:12,011 It was an example of a culture clash that's happening 77 00:04:12,011 --> 00:04:15,331 all over the world between bewigged and bestockinged 78 00:04:15,331 --> 00:04:19,435 officials who think that they can rule over us 79 00:04:19,435 --> 00:04:21,343 without very much prying from the public, 80 00:04:21,343 --> 00:04:23,796 and then suddenly confronted with a public 81 00:04:23,796 --> 00:04:27,234 who is no longer content with that arrangement, 82 00:04:27,234 --> 00:04:30,472 and not only not content with it, now, more often, 83 00:04:30,472 --> 00:04:34,846 armed with official data itself. 84 00:04:34,846 --> 00:04:39,984 So we are moving to this democratization of information, 85 00:04:39,984 --> 00:04:42,631 and I've been in this field for quite a while. 86 00:04:42,631 --> 00:04:45,272 Slightly embarrassing admission: Even when I was a kid, 87 00:04:45,272 --> 00:04:47,207 I used to have these little spy books, and I would, like, 88 00:04:47,207 --> 00:04:49,833 see what everybody was doing in my neighborhood and log it down. 89 00:04:49,833 --> 00:04:52,039 I think that was a pretty good indication 90 00:04:52,039 --> 00:04:55,120 about my future career as an investigative journalist, 91 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,640 and what I've seen from being in this access to information field for so long 92 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,416 is that it used to be quite a niche interest, 93 00:05:02,416 --> 00:05:05,567 and it's gone mainstream. Everybody, increasingly, around the world, 94 00:05:05,567 --> 00:05:08,735 wants to know about what people in power are doing. 95 00:05:08,735 --> 00:05:12,143 They want a say in decisions that are made in their name 96 00:05:12,143 --> 00:05:15,166 and with their money. It's this democratization of information 97 00:05:15,166 --> 00:05:17,872 that I think is an information enlightenment, 98 00:05:17,872 --> 00:05:21,335 and it has many of the same principles of the first Enlightenment. 99 00:05:21,335 --> 00:05:24,330 It's about searching for the truth, 100 00:05:24,330 --> 00:05:28,527 not because somebody says it's true, "because I say so." 101 00:05:28,527 --> 00:05:31,001 No, it's about trying to find the truth based on 102 00:05:31,001 --> 00:05:33,630 what you can see and what can be tested. 103 00:05:33,630 --> 00:05:36,298 That, in the first Enlightenment, led to questions about 104 00:05:36,298 --> 00:05:39,807 the right of kings, the divine right of kings to rule over people, 105 00:05:39,807 --> 00:05:41,984 or that women should be subordinate to men, 106 00:05:41,984 --> 00:05:44,687 or that the Church was the official word of God. 107 00:05:44,687 --> 00:05:47,123 Obviously the Church weren't very happy about this, 108 00:05:47,123 --> 00:05:49,224 and they tried to suppress it, 109 00:05:49,224 --> 00:05:52,295 but what they hadn't counted on was technology, 110 00:05:52,295 --> 00:05:54,720 and then they had the printing press, which suddenly 111 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,112 enabled these ideas to spread cheaply, far and fast, 112 00:05:58,112 --> 00:06:00,952 and people would come together in coffee houses, 113 00:06:00,952 --> 00:06:03,768 discuss the ideas, plot revolution. 114 00:06:03,768 --> 00:06:08,359 In our day, we have digitization. That strips all the physical mass out of information, 115 00:06:08,359 --> 00:06:11,764 so now it's almost zero cost to copy and share information. 116 00:06:11,764 --> 00:06:16,001 Our printing press is the Internet. Our coffee houses are social networks. 117 00:06:16,001 --> 00:06:21,103 We're moving to what I would think of as a fully connected system, 118 00:06:21,103 --> 00:06:23,976 and we have global decisions to make in this system, 119 00:06:23,976 --> 00:06:27,662 decisions about climate, about finance systems, 120 00:06:27,662 --> 00:06:31,003 about resources. And think about it -- 121 00:06:31,003 --> 00:06:33,465 if we want to make an important decision about buying a house, 122 00:06:33,465 --> 00:06:35,979 we don't just go off. I mean, I don't know about you, 123 00:06:35,979 --> 00:06:39,323 but I want to see a lot of houses before I put that much money into it. 124 00:06:39,323 --> 00:06:41,678 And if we're thinking about a finance system, 125 00:06:41,678 --> 00:06:45,322 we need a lot of information to take in. It's just not possible 126 00:06:45,322 --> 00:06:49,283 for one person to take in the amount, the volume 127 00:06:49,283 --> 00:06:53,049 of information, and analyze it to make good decisions. 128 00:06:53,049 --> 00:06:56,075 So that's why we're seeing increasingly this demand 129 00:06:56,075 --> 00:06:58,460 for access to information. 130 00:06:58,460 --> 00:07:00,769 That's why we're starting to see more disclosure laws 131 00:07:00,769 --> 00:07:02,745 come out, so for example, on the environment, 132 00:07:02,745 --> 00:07:04,461 there's the Aarhus Convention, 133 00:07:04,461 --> 00:07:06,489 which is a European directive that gives people 134 00:07:06,489 --> 00:07:09,237 a very strong right to know, so if your water company 135 00:07:09,237 --> 00:07:12,607 is dumping water into your river, sewage water 136 00:07:12,607 --> 00:07:15,655 into your river, you have a right to know about it. 137 00:07:15,655 --> 00:07:19,534 In the finance industry, you now have more of a right 138 00:07:19,534 --> 00:07:22,087 to know about what's going on, so we have 139 00:07:22,087 --> 00:07:25,040 different anti-bribery laws, money regulations, 140 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,113 increased corporate disclosure, so you can now track assets across borders. 141 00:07:29,113 --> 00:07:34,357 And it's getting harder to hide assets, tax avoidance, 142 00:07:34,357 --> 00:07:37,492 pay inequality. So that's great. We're starting to find out 143 00:07:37,492 --> 00:07:40,211 more and more about these systems. 144 00:07:40,211 --> 00:07:43,003 And they're all moving to this central system, 145 00:07:43,003 --> 00:07:45,370 this fully connected system, 146 00:07:45,370 --> 00:07:48,577 all of them except one. Can you guess which one? 147 00:07:48,577 --> 00:07:51,248 It's the system which underpins all these other systems. 148 00:07:51,248 --> 00:07:55,406 It's the system by which we organize and exercise power, 149 00:07:55,406 --> 00:07:58,336 and there I'm talking about politics, because in politics, 150 00:07:58,336 --> 00:08:02,463 we're back to this system, this top-down hierarchy. 151 00:08:02,463 --> 00:08:05,544 And how is it possible that the volume of information 152 00:08:05,544 --> 00:08:08,355 can be processed that needs to in this system? 153 00:08:08,355 --> 00:08:10,971 Well, it just can't. That's it. 154 00:08:10,971 --> 00:08:13,678 And I think this is largely what's behind the crisis 155 00:08:13,678 --> 00:08:18,001 of legitimacy in our different governments right now. 156 00:08:18,001 --> 00:08:20,184 So I've told you a bit about what I did 157 00:08:20,184 --> 00:08:22,869 to try and drag Parliament, kicking and screaming, 158 00:08:22,869 --> 00:08:25,384 into the 21st century, and I'm just going to give you 159 00:08:25,384 --> 00:08:28,048 a couple of examples of what a few other people I know 160 00:08:28,048 --> 00:08:29,268 are doing. 161 00:08:29,268 --> 00:08:32,487 So this is a guy called Seb Bacon. He's a computer 162 00:08:32,487 --> 00:08:36,445 programmer, and he built a site called Alaveteli, 163 00:08:36,445 --> 00:08:41,215 and what it is, it's a Freedom of Information platform. 164 00:08:41,215 --> 00:08:44,190 It's open-source, with documentation, and it allows you 165 00:08:44,190 --> 00:08:47,293 to make a Freedom of Information request, 166 00:08:47,293 --> 00:08:50,262 to ask your public body a question, so 167 00:08:50,262 --> 00:08:53,382 it takes all the hassle out of it, and I can tell you 168 00:08:53,382 --> 00:08:55,470 that there is a lot of hassle making these requests, 169 00:08:55,470 --> 00:08:59,014 so it takes all of that hassle out, and you just type in your question, 170 00:08:59,014 --> 00:09:03,485 for example, how many police officers have a criminal record? 171 00:09:03,485 --> 00:09:07,326 It zooms it off to the appropriate person, it tells you 172 00:09:07,326 --> 00:09:10,814 when the time limit is coming to an end, it keeps track of all 173 00:09:10,814 --> 00:09:12,466 the correspondence, it posts it up there, 174 00:09:12,466 --> 00:09:16,121 and it becomes an archive of public knowledge. 175 00:09:16,121 --> 00:09:19,694 So that's open-source and it can be used in any country 176 00:09:19,694 --> 00:09:22,605 where there is some kind of Freedom of Information law. 177 00:09:22,605 --> 00:09:25,815 So there's a list there of the different countries that have it, 178 00:09:25,815 --> 00:09:27,610 and then there's a few more coming on board. 179 00:09:27,610 --> 00:09:30,170 So if any of you out there like the sound of that 180 00:09:30,170 --> 00:09:32,903 and have a law like that in your country, 181 00:09:32,903 --> 00:09:34,942 I know that Seb would love to hear from you 182 00:09:34,942 --> 00:09:39,014 about collaborating and getting that into your country. 183 00:09:39,014 --> 00:09:43,309 This is Birgitta Jónsdóttir. She's an Icelandic MP. 184 00:09:43,309 --> 00:09:47,143 And quite an unusual MP. In Iceland, she was 185 00:09:47,143 --> 00:09:50,460 one of the protesters who was outside of Parliament 186 00:09:50,460 --> 00:09:54,206 when the country's economy collapsed, 187 00:09:54,206 --> 00:09:58,100 and then she was elected on a reform mandate, 188 00:09:58,100 --> 00:10:00,467 and she's now spearheading this project. 189 00:10:00,467 --> 00:10:03,354 It's the Icelandic Modern Media Initiative, 190 00:10:03,354 --> 00:10:05,619 and they've just got funding to make it an international 191 00:10:05,619 --> 00:10:09,058 modern media project, and this is taking all of the best laws 192 00:10:09,058 --> 00:10:11,994 around the world about freedom of expression, 193 00:10:11,994 --> 00:10:14,789 protection of whistleblowers, protection from libel, 194 00:10:14,789 --> 00:10:19,263 source protection, and trying to make Iceland a publishing haven. 195 00:10:19,263 --> 00:10:21,684 It's a place where your data can be free, so when we think 196 00:10:21,684 --> 00:10:25,099 about, increasingly, how governments want to access user data, 197 00:10:25,099 --> 00:10:27,871 what they're trying to do in Iceland is make this safe haven 198 00:10:27,871 --> 00:10:30,608 where it can happen. 199 00:10:30,608 --> 00:10:33,746 In my own field of investigative journalism, we're also 200 00:10:33,746 --> 00:10:36,576 having to start thinking globally, so this is a site called 201 00:10:36,576 --> 00:10:39,699 Investigative Dashboard. And if you're trying to track 202 00:10:39,699 --> 00:10:42,682 a dictator's assets, for example, Hosni Mubarak, 203 00:10:42,682 --> 00:10:46,127 you know, he's just funneling out cash from his country 204 00:10:46,127 --> 00:10:48,666 when he knows he's in trouble, and what you want to do 205 00:10:48,666 --> 00:10:51,062 to investigate that is, you need to have access to 206 00:10:51,062 --> 00:10:53,361 all of the world's, as many as you can, 207 00:10:53,361 --> 00:10:56,144 companies' house registrations databases. 208 00:10:56,144 --> 00:11:00,582 So this is a website that tries to agglomerate all of those 209 00:11:00,582 --> 00:11:03,837 databases into one place so you can start searching for, 210 00:11:03,837 --> 00:11:07,505 you know, his relatives, his friends, the head of his security services. 211 00:11:07,505 --> 00:11:10,256 You can try and find out how he's moving out assets 212 00:11:10,256 --> 00:11:12,982 from that country. 213 00:11:12,982 --> 00:11:16,615 But again, when it comes to the decisions which are 214 00:11:16,615 --> 00:11:19,615 impacting us the most, perhaps, the most important 215 00:11:19,615 --> 00:11:22,904 decisions that are being made about war and so forth, 216 00:11:22,904 --> 00:11:25,833 again we can't just make a Freedom of Information request. 217 00:11:25,833 --> 00:11:28,941 It's really difficult. So we're still having to rely on 218 00:11:28,941 --> 00:11:33,023 illegitimate ways of getting information, through leaks. 219 00:11:33,023 --> 00:11:36,065 So when the Guardian did this investigation about 220 00:11:36,065 --> 00:11:39,215 the Afghan War, you know, they can't walk into 221 00:11:39,215 --> 00:11:42,679 the Department of Defense and ask for all the information. 222 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:44,621 You know, they're just not going to get it. 223 00:11:44,621 --> 00:11:48,161 So this came from leaks of tens of thousands of dispatches 224 00:11:48,161 --> 00:11:50,567 that were written by American soldiers 225 00:11:50,567 --> 00:11:53,126 about the Afghan War, and leaked, 226 00:11:53,126 --> 00:11:56,777 and then they're able to do this investigation. 227 00:11:56,777 --> 00:12:02,345 Another rather large investigation is around world diplomacy. 228 00:12:02,345 --> 00:12:04,845 Again, this is all based around leaks, 229 00:12:04,845 --> 00:12:10,096 251,000 U.S. diplomatic cables, and I was involved 230 00:12:10,096 --> 00:12:14,037 in this investigation because I got this leak 231 00:12:14,037 --> 00:12:17,406 through a leak from a disgruntled WikiLeaker 232 00:12:17,406 --> 00:12:20,175 and ended up going to work at the Guardian. 233 00:12:20,175 --> 00:12:22,599 So I can tell you firsthand what it was like to have access 234 00:12:22,599 --> 00:12:24,566 to this leak. It was amazing. I mean, it was amazing. 235 00:12:24,566 --> 00:12:28,216 It reminded me of that scene in "The Wizard of Oz." 236 00:12:28,216 --> 00:12:30,704 Do you know the one I mean? Where the little dog Toto 237 00:12:30,704 --> 00:12:33,555 runs across to where the wizard [is], and he pulls back, 238 00:12:33,555 --> 00:12:35,017 the dog's pulling back the curtain, and -- 239 00:12:35,017 --> 00:12:39,000 "Don't look behind the screen. Don't look at the man behind the screen." 240 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,136 It was just like that, because what you started to see 241 00:12:41,136 --> 00:12:44,087 is that all of these grand statesmen, these very pompous 242 00:12:44,087 --> 00:12:47,185 politicians, they were just like us. 243 00:12:47,185 --> 00:12:49,745 They all bitched about each other. I mean, quite gossipy, 244 00:12:49,745 --> 00:12:52,416 those cables. Okay, but I thought it was a very important 245 00:12:52,416 --> 00:12:55,017 point for all of us to grasp, these are human beings 246 00:12:55,017 --> 00:12:56,968 just like us. They don't have special powers. 247 00:12:56,968 --> 00:13:00,791 They're not magic. They are not our parents. 248 00:13:00,791 --> 00:13:05,640 Beyond that, what I found most fascinating 249 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,264 was the level of endemic corruption that I saw 250 00:13:08,264 --> 00:13:11,419 across all different countries, and particularly centered 251 00:13:11,419 --> 00:13:14,247 around the heart of power, around public officials 252 00:13:14,247 --> 00:13:16,863 who were embezzling the public's money 253 00:13:16,863 --> 00:13:19,881 for their own personal enrichment, and allowed to do that 254 00:13:19,881 --> 00:13:23,264 because of official secrecy. 255 00:13:23,264 --> 00:13:26,891 So I've mentioned WikiLeaks, because surely what could be 256 00:13:26,891 --> 00:13:29,722 more open than publishing all the material? 257 00:13:29,722 --> 00:13:32,793 Because that is what Julian Assange did. 258 00:13:32,793 --> 00:13:35,361 He wasn't content with the way the newspapers published it 259 00:13:35,361 --> 00:13:39,158 to be safe and legal. He threw it all out there. 260 00:13:39,158 --> 00:13:42,873 That did end up with vulnerable people in Afghanistan 261 00:13:42,873 --> 00:13:46,289 being exposed. It also meant that the Belarussian dictator 262 00:13:46,289 --> 00:13:50,059 was given a handy list of all the pro-democracy campaigners 263 00:13:50,059 --> 00:13:53,545 in that country who had spoken to the U.S. government. 264 00:13:53,545 --> 00:13:58,017 Is that radical openness? I say it's not, because for me, 265 00:13:58,017 --> 00:14:01,519 what it means, it doesn't mean abdicating power, 266 00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:05,273 responsibility, accountability, it's actually being a partner 267 00:14:05,273 --> 00:14:08,289 with power. It's about sharing responsibility, 268 00:14:08,289 --> 00:14:11,201 sharing accountability. Also, the fact that 269 00:14:11,201 --> 00:14:13,338 he threatened to sue me because I got a leak of his leaks, 270 00:14:13,338 --> 00:14:16,023 I thought that showed a remarkable sort of inconsistency 271 00:14:16,023 --> 00:14:21,864 in ideology, to be honest, as well. (Laughs) 272 00:14:21,864 --> 00:14:25,198 The other thing is that power is incredibly seductive, 273 00:14:25,198 --> 00:14:27,866 and you must have two real qualities, I think, 274 00:14:27,866 --> 00:14:30,279 when you come to the table, when you're dealing 275 00:14:30,279 --> 00:14:32,013 with power, talking about power, 276 00:14:32,013 --> 00:14:34,386 because of its seductive capacity. 277 00:14:34,386 --> 00:14:37,405 You've got to have skepticism and humility. 278 00:14:37,405 --> 00:14:39,998 Skepticism, because you must always be challenging. 279 00:14:39,998 --> 00:14:43,030 I want to see why do you -- you just say so? That's not good enough. 280 00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:45,745 I want to see the evidence behind why that's so. 281 00:14:45,745 --> 00:14:50,238 And humility because we are all human. We all make mistakes. 282 00:14:50,238 --> 00:14:53,030 And if you don't have skepticism and humility, 283 00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:56,125 then it's a really short journey to go from reformer 284 00:14:56,125 --> 00:15:00,734 to autocrat, and I think you only have to read "Animal Farm" 285 00:15:00,734 --> 00:15:06,677 to get that message about how power corrupts people. 286 00:15:06,677 --> 00:15:12,145 So what is the solution? It is, I believe, to embody 287 00:15:12,145 --> 00:15:15,612 within the rule of law rights to information. 288 00:15:15,612 --> 00:15:18,247 At the moment our rights are incredibly weak. 289 00:15:18,247 --> 00:15:21,229 In a lot of countries, we have Official Secrets Acts, 290 00:15:21,229 --> 00:15:23,392 including in Britain here. We have an Official Secrets Act 291 00:15:23,392 --> 00:15:26,508 with no public interest test. So that means it's a crime, 292 00:15:26,508 --> 00:15:30,674 people are punished, quite severely in a lot of cases, 293 00:15:30,674 --> 00:15:34,877 for publishing or giving away official information. 294 00:15:34,877 --> 00:15:38,355 Now wouldn't it be amazing, and really, this is what I want 295 00:15:38,355 --> 00:15:41,917 all of you to think about, if we had an Official Disclosure Act 296 00:15:41,917 --> 00:15:45,293 where officials were punished if they were found 297 00:15:45,293 --> 00:15:48,253 to have suppressed or hidden information 298 00:15:48,253 --> 00:15:50,438 that was in the public interest? 299 00:15:50,438 --> 00:15:57,338 So that -- yes. Yes! My power pose. (Applause) (Laughs) 300 00:15:57,338 --> 00:15:59,883 I would like us to work towards that. 301 00:15:59,883 --> 00:16:03,803 So it's not all bad news. I mean, there definitely is 302 00:16:03,803 --> 00:16:06,758 progress on the line, but I think what we find is that 303 00:16:06,758 --> 00:16:09,934 the closer that we get right into the heart of power, 304 00:16:09,934 --> 00:16:14,358 the more opaque, closed it becomes. 305 00:16:14,358 --> 00:16:17,438 So it was only just the other week that I heard London's 306 00:16:17,438 --> 00:16:20,935 Metropolitan Police Commissioner talking about why 307 00:16:20,935 --> 00:16:25,527 the police need access to all of our communications, 308 00:16:25,527 --> 00:16:28,590 spying on us without any judicial oversight, 309 00:16:28,590 --> 00:16:30,256 and he said it was a matter of life and death. 310 00:16:30,256 --> 00:16:33,503 He actually said that, it was a matter of life and death. 311 00:16:33,503 --> 00:16:37,725 There was no evidence. He presented no evidence of that. 312 00:16:37,725 --> 00:16:40,847 It was just, "Because I say so. 313 00:16:40,847 --> 00:16:44,095 You have to trust me. Take it on faith." 314 00:16:44,095 --> 00:16:46,094 Well, I'm sorry, people, but we are back 315 00:16:46,094 --> 00:16:49,799 to the pre-Enlightenment Church, 316 00:16:49,799 --> 00:16:53,575 and we need to fight against that. 317 00:16:53,575 --> 00:16:56,863 So he was talking about the law in Britain which is 318 00:16:56,863 --> 00:17:01,089 the Communications Data Bill, an absolutely outrageous piece of legislation. 319 00:17:01,089 --> 00:17:04,695 In America, you have the Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act. 320 00:17:04,695 --> 00:17:08,335 You've got drones now being considered for domestic surveillance. 321 00:17:08,335 --> 00:17:11,095 You have the National Security Agency building 322 00:17:11,095 --> 00:17:14,623 the world's giantest spy center. It's just this colossal -- 323 00:17:14,623 --> 00:17:17,095 it's five times bigger than the U.S. Capitol, 324 00:17:17,095 --> 00:17:18,897 in which they're going to intercept and analyze 325 00:17:18,897 --> 00:17:21,846 communications, traffic and personal data 326 00:17:21,846 --> 00:17:25,159 to try and figure out who's the troublemaker in society. 327 00:17:25,159 --> 00:17:29,959 Well, to go back to our original story, the parents 328 00:17:29,959 --> 00:17:33,809 have panicked. They've locked all the doors. 329 00:17:33,809 --> 00:17:36,895 They've kitted out the house with CCTV cameras. 330 00:17:36,895 --> 00:17:39,647 They're watching all of us. They've dug a basement, 331 00:17:39,647 --> 00:17:42,311 and they've built a spy center to try and run algorithms 332 00:17:42,311 --> 00:17:44,983 and figure out which ones of us are troublesome, 333 00:17:44,983 --> 00:17:49,217 and if any of us complain about that, we're arrested for terrorism. 334 00:17:49,217 --> 00:17:52,791 Well, is that a fairy tale or a living nightmare? 335 00:17:52,791 --> 00:17:56,450 Some fairy tales have happy endings. Some don't. 336 00:17:56,450 --> 00:17:59,197 I think we've all read the Grimms' fairy tales, which are, 337 00:17:59,197 --> 00:18:01,695 indeed, very grim. 338 00:18:01,695 --> 00:18:06,917 But the world isn't a fairy tale, and it could be more brutal 339 00:18:06,917 --> 00:18:09,721 than we want to acknowledge. 340 00:18:09,721 --> 00:18:12,010 Equally, it could be better than we've been led to believe, 341 00:18:12,010 --> 00:18:15,721 but either way, we have to start seeing it exactly as it is, 342 00:18:15,721 --> 00:18:19,570 with all of its problems, because it's only by seeing it 343 00:18:19,570 --> 00:18:22,063 with all of its problems that we'll be able to fix them 344 00:18:22,063 --> 00:18:26,134 and live in a world in which we can all be 345 00:18:26,134 --> 00:18:29,820 happily ever after. (Laughs) Thank you very much. 346 00:18:29,820 --> 00:18:33,055 (Applause) 347 00:18:33,055 --> 00:18:37,110 Thank you. (Applause)