1 00:00:02,189 --> 00:00:06,070 Welcome to Reasonable Doubts, 2 00:00:06,070 --> 00:00:11,379 your skeptical guide to religion. 3 00:00:11,380 --> 00:00:27,030 (Music) 4 00:00:27,079 --> 00:00:30,709 You're listening to Reasonable Doubts, the radio show and podcast for those who 5 00:00:30,710 --> 00:00:32,118 won't just take things on faith. 6 00:00:32,118 --> 00:00:35,119 I'm Jamie Beahan and for this special episode 7 00:00:35,119 --> 00:00:38,539 of Reasonable Doubts, we're featuring a lecture I gave in February 8 00:00:38,539 --> 00:00:41,979 to the Grand Traverse humanists in Traverse City, Michigan. 9 00:00:41,979 --> 00:00:45,479 The lecture was entitled; “Does religion make us better?", 10 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,558 a critical review of the religious pro-sociality hypothesis. 11 00:00:49,558 --> 00:00:52,981 Longtime listeners will no doubt recognize many of the studies 12 00:00:52,981 --> 00:00:54,640 talked about in this lecture. 13 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,938 A previous RD-extra and our episode “The Skeptics Toolkit to Psychology of Religion” 14 00:00:59,938 --> 00:01:01,808 discussed these findings. 15 00:01:01,808 --> 00:01:05,259 But this lecture is a bit different, mostly in the trivial 16 00:01:05,259 --> 00:01:09,439 and, I'm sure, disappointing fact that I am presenting the findings rather than 17 00:01:09,439 --> 00:01:11,759 our resident doctor professor Luke Galen. 18 00:01:11,759 --> 00:01:16,319 But I think this lecture has some merit in that it finally collects a wide range 19 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,758 of studies, discussed over several years on the show, into one convenient place 20 00:01:20,759 --> 00:01:24,959 hopefully making it easier for fans of the show to review the information 21 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:29,868 or share with a friend and please do share. This is important research and I 22 00:01:29,868 --> 00:01:33,569 know doctor Galen would agree with me in thinking that it hasn't gotten as 23 00:01:33,569 --> 00:01:36,919 much attention as it deserves. So you'd be doing us 24 00:01:36,919 --> 00:01:41,110 and the cause of skepticism a great favor by sharing this lecture 25 00:01:41,110 --> 00:01:45,689 on whatever blogs or social media you frequent and never underestimate 26 00:01:45,688 --> 00:01:48,209 the power of good old word-of-mouth sharing either. 27 00:01:48,209 --> 00:01:52,889 And please visit doubtcast.org to share any comments or questions or feedback 28 00:01:52,890 --> 00:01:54,968 you may have about the episode. 29 00:01:54,968 --> 00:01:58,849 So be sure to tune in next week for the Doubtcasters review 30 00:01:58,849 --> 00:02:02,739 of the New Christian propaganda film “God's not dead”. 31 00:02:02,739 --> 00:02:07,054 Should be a good one. Until then, take care and keep doubting. 32 00:02:07,054 --> 00:02:16,519 (Music) 33 00:02:16,519 --> 00:02:19,075 (Applause) 34 00:02:19,105 --> 00:02:21,489 Thank you for coming and thank you for the privilege of 35 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,870 allowing me to speak to your group. My name is Jeremy Beahan. 36 00:02:24,870 --> 00:02:29,539 I teach World Religions and Introduction to Philosophy along with a handful of 37 00:02:29,539 --> 00:02:32,169 other subjects at Kendall College of Art and Design. 38 00:02:32,169 --> 00:02:35,299 I'm also the producer and cohost 39 00:02:35,300 --> 00:02:38,380 of the Reasonable Doubt Podcast which 40 00:02:38,379 --> 00:02:43,189 at its peak was the top atheist podcast on iTunes for several years, 41 00:02:43,189 --> 00:02:46,740 won the People's Choice podcasting award 42 00:02:46,740 --> 00:02:51,689 for best religious inspirational podcast which was - (Laughing) - different. 43 00:02:51,689 --> 00:02:54,829 People look at me funny when I mention that. 44 00:02:54,830 --> 00:03:00,070 I'm speaking tonight on the issue of “Does religion make people better?” 45 00:03:00,070 --> 00:03:02,210 and we're approaching this not so much from a philosophical 46 00:03:02,210 --> 00:03:05,120 perspective, as you usually hear this question grapple with, 47 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,653 but we're approaching this from an empirical standpoint. 48 00:03:08,653 --> 00:03:11,146 What can science actually tell us 49 00:03:11,146 --> 00:03:15,719 about how religion affects morality. The subtitle here's a skeptical review 50 00:03:15,719 --> 00:03:17,930 of the religious pro-sociality hypothesis. 51 00:03:17,930 --> 00:03:21,159 So, that might take some explanation. 52 00:03:21,159 --> 00:03:24,169 You might guess from that subtitle that this is going to be a bit have been 53 00:03:24,169 --> 00:03:26,919 informationally dense talk tonight. 54 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,479 But I don't have to tell you that in our culture 55 00:03:29,479 --> 00:03:32,740 there's an overwhelming assumption among the general public 56 00:03:32,740 --> 00:03:36,759 that being religious is necessary to be a happy and ethical person. 57 00:03:36,759 --> 00:03:40,069 We have plenty of preachers and pundits and ordinary people 58 00:03:40,069 --> 00:03:44,489 reminding us daily that without God society will quickly de-evolve 59 00:03:44,489 --> 00:03:49,239 into wickedness and anarchy. What you may not be familiar with 60 00:03:49,239 --> 00:03:53,239 as much however is the growing body of social psychology research 61 00:03:53,239 --> 00:03:56,830 that at first glance actually seems to support this notion. 62 00:03:56,830 --> 00:04:01,520 The more technical term for the hypothesis that religion makes us good 63 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,320 is known as the religious pro-sociality hypothesis. 64 00:04:05,319 --> 00:04:09,259 My task tonight is to present you with an overview of this research 65 00:04:09,259 --> 00:04:13,699 and to acquit you with the tools necessary to think critically about it. 66 00:04:13,699 --> 00:04:18,009 Because as we're about to see the religious pro-sociality hypothesis 67 00:04:18,009 --> 00:04:19,620 really does indeed have some support. 68 00:04:19,620 --> 00:04:24,030 But when we look at the evidence more closely, we're going to 69 00:04:24,029 --> 00:04:26,919 discover little devils within the details. 70 00:04:26,919 --> 00:04:30,219 But first I have to give you a quick disclaimer: 71 00:04:30,219 --> 00:04:32,639 I don't get any credit or blame 72 00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:36,659 for what I'm about to say this evening. This is not my research 73 00:04:36,660 --> 00:04:39,930 that I'm reporting on, this is actually doctor Luke Galen's research. 74 00:04:39,930 --> 00:04:44,039 He is a professor of psychology of religion 75 00:04:44,039 --> 00:04:46,339 at Grand Valley State University and 76 00:04:46,339 --> 00:04:51,359 almost all what I'm going to be drawing from tonight comes from his paper 77 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,830 in the Psychological Bulletin of the American Psychological Association 78 00:04:55,829 --> 00:05:01,279 called: “Does religious belief promote pro-sociality, a critical examination”. 79 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,309 How did I get involved in this topic? 80 00:05:04,309 --> 00:05:06,550 He put me in charge of 81 00:05:06,550 --> 00:05:09,618 writing up a summary of his research, 82 00:05:09,618 --> 00:05:13,859 kind of distilling pages upon pages and pages of review 83 00:05:13,860 --> 00:05:17,639 into something coherent that the average consumer 84 00:05:17,639 --> 00:05:22,019 could actually understand. So that was my task writing up 85 00:05:22,019 --> 00:05:25,469 his review and free inquiry, since Luke Galen 86 00:05:25,470 --> 00:05:28,608 doesn't like their leave the house too often or interact 87 00:05:28,608 --> 00:05:32,129 with ordinary human beings. (Laughing) 88 00:05:32,129 --> 00:05:34,239 He kind of appointed me to be his spokesman. 89 00:05:34,239 --> 00:05:37,159 He jokingly refers to me as Galen's Bulldog. 90 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,750 I guess I'm Thomas Henry Huxley to his Darwin. 91 00:05:40,750 --> 00:05:45,100 So I've been glad to have the opportunity to do interviews 92 00:05:45,100 --> 00:05:49,390 and talk to groups like this about this research because I think it 93 00:05:49,389 --> 00:05:50,979 needs to get out there. 94 00:05:50,979 --> 00:05:53,619 All right, before we go any further 95 00:05:53,620 --> 00:05:56,689 let us define what we mean by pro-sociality. 96 00:05:56,689 --> 00:06:01,500 I hate that word already. I am barely into this lecture 97 00:06:01,500 --> 00:06:05,240 and tired of saying it, 98 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,920 but the term pro-social refers to any kind of positive social behavior 99 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:15,129 and this runs the gamut from generosity in the form a charitable giving 100 00:06:15,129 --> 00:06:19,509 or time spent volunteering to personal qualities perhaps 101 00:06:19,509 --> 00:06:21,879 such as positive personality traits: 102 00:06:21,879 --> 00:06:26,550 being helpful, being honest and there's actually an impressive array of 103 00:06:26,550 --> 00:06:30,680 scientific studies that support this hypothesis, that try to show 104 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:35,930 that the religious exhibit greater pro-sociality than the non-religious. 105 00:06:35,930 --> 00:06:39,919 In effect this has even become the subject of a number a popular books. 106 00:06:39,919 --> 00:06:42,120 One you may have heard of 107 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,890 is “A Friendly Letter to Skeptics and Atheists” by David Myers 108 00:06:45,890 --> 00:06:50,689 or more recently “American Grace, How Religion Divides and Unites Us”. 109 00:06:50,689 --> 00:06:54,459 So the general public is being told that the data are in 110 00:06:54,459 --> 00:06:59,359 and religion makes you happy, happier, healthier and more helpful. 111 00:06:59,359 --> 00:07:05,089 That this is a conclusion that is not just philosophy or religion. It's science. 112 00:07:05,089 --> 00:07:07,539 In fact even some atheists are getting in on this. 113 00:07:07,540 --> 00:07:10,980 A seemingly overwhelming case for the pro-social effects 114 00:07:10,980 --> 00:07:15,480 of religion has been enough to convince people here like Jessie Bering, 115 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,640 an atheist psychologist and actually a pretty good author. 116 00:07:19,639 --> 00:07:24,729 Enough to convince him that religion is beneficial, at least for others. 117 00:07:24,729 --> 00:07:28,939 In a recent Slate article entitled *“Don't trust the godless”(, 118 00:07:28,939 --> 00:07:33,430 Jesse Bering confessed; "Even as an atheist, I have more confidence 119 00:07:33,430 --> 00:07:37,079 in religious people and now science is backing me up.” 120 00:07:37,079 --> 00:07:40,720 A fuller quote is up here; "This is a difficult confession to make 121 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:45,879 because on the surface I'm sure it sounds wildly, wildly hypocritical. 122 00:07:45,879 --> 00:07:50,850 Still here it goes; "I trust religious people more than I trust atheists." 123 00:07:50,850 --> 00:07:53,306 Trustworthiness is a different thing altogether from intellect 124 00:07:53,306 --> 00:07:56,682 and I suppose I'm the ever so social pragmatist 125 00:07:56,682 --> 00:07:58,220 in my dealings with other people." 126 00:07:58,220 --> 00:08:02,710 So pretty serious claim, if you get even atheist psychologists 127 00:08:02,709 --> 00:08:04,932 saying; "Don't trust the godless". 128 00:08:04,932 --> 00:08:07,115 Before we go any further though 129 00:08:07,115 --> 00:08:09,379 we're going to have to look at what are the kind of methods 130 00:08:09,379 --> 00:08:12,532 that are used in pro-sociality research. 131 00:08:12,532 --> 00:08:15,685 We're going to see a variety of different 132 00:08:15,685 --> 00:08:19,240 experimental setups and methods for conducting this kind of research. 133 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,240 This would include self-reports, what people say about themselves and 134 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:28,330 third-party ratings of individuals, laboratory tests of behavior, 135 00:08:28,329 --> 00:08:32,240 lab studies of economic games – we’ll talk about those more later - 136 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,300 priming studies, where people are presented 137 00:08:34,300 --> 00:08:37,039 with the religious concept subconsciously 138 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:40,889 - usually where they will not realize they've been primed by the concept 139 00:08:40,889 --> 00:08:44,819 and then we'll see what happens - and also spirituality scales. 140 00:08:44,820 --> 00:08:49,419 Scales are meant to design, to detect the level of one's spirituality 141 00:08:49,419 --> 00:08:51,799 and then we compare their behaviors on that. 142 00:08:51,799 --> 00:08:53,939 What I'm going to try to highlight 143 00:08:53,939 --> 00:08:56,560 is some other pitfalls that researchers face 144 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,859 in each of these types of research methods. 145 00:09:00,359 --> 00:09:03,239 Let's start with the top report data; 146 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,529 "Will being religious make you a better person?" 147 00:09:05,529 --> 00:09:08,379 Well, the fateful certainly seem to think so. 148 00:09:08,379 --> 00:09:11,759 When asked to give an assessment of their own character and values, 149 00:09:11,759 --> 00:09:13,990 religious individuals tend to report being... 150 00:09:13,990 --> 00:09:18,370 having a more grateful disposition; they rate themselves as more helpful; 151 00:09:18,370 --> 00:09:22,139 they claim to value forgiveness more highly than the non-religious; 152 00:09:22,139 --> 00:09:26,419 And many studies actually take these self-reports at face value. 153 00:09:26,419 --> 00:09:29,279 The fact that believers think they're more moral 154 00:09:29,279 --> 00:09:32,699 is actually taken as evidence that they do exhibit 155 00:09:32,700 --> 00:09:38,390 these pro-social traits. Big question is: "Should we take believers at their word? 156 00:09:38,389 --> 00:09:42,230 No. Not if their evaluations are based on a self-serving bias 157 00:09:42,230 --> 00:09:46,360 rather than a realistic assessment of their own character. 158 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:51,400 Self-report data tend to be unreliable by its very nature. 159 00:09:51,399 --> 00:09:56,289 People are prone to forming positive illusions about themselves. We all do it. 160 00:09:56,289 --> 00:10:00,305 We tend to inflate our responses on questionnaires as a result 161 00:10:00,305 --> 00:10:02,701 to make ourselves look better. 162 00:10:02,701 --> 00:10:06,179 Sometimes this is just concern over our own personal self-image. 163 00:10:06,179 --> 00:10:08,896 Social psychologists call this self-enhancement. 164 00:10:08,896 --> 00:10:12,043 Or sometimes we want to make a good impression with others 165 00:10:12,043 --> 00:10:15,230 or good impression for our group in particular. 166 00:10:15,230 --> 00:10:18,190 This is sometimes referred to as impression management. 167 00:10:18,190 --> 00:10:21,070 While this is a widespread tendency 168 00:10:21,070 --> 00:10:24,580 and it's by no means restricted just to the religious. 169 00:10:24,580 --> 00:10:27,950 What's interesting is, this tendency might be more pronounced 170 00:10:27,950 --> 00:10:31,230 in those who have a strong level of religious belief. 171 00:10:31,230 --> 00:10:35,710 Highly religious people tend to view themselves as better than others, generally. 172 00:10:35,710 --> 00:10:39,430 Even better than other religious individuals. 173 00:10:39,429 --> 00:10:43,599 And they also evaluate themselves more highly than non-religious individuals 174 00:10:43,599 --> 00:10:46,510 on attributes that have absolutely nothing to do with religion. 175 00:10:46,510 --> 00:10:49,870 So for example they might score themselves higher 176 00:10:49,870 --> 00:10:53,609 on measures of intelligence or being a good worker. 177 00:10:53,609 --> 00:10:59,090 Things that do not seem immediately related to their religious morality. 178 00:10:59,090 --> 00:11:02,649 Those high in intrinsic religiosity actually have been shown to have 179 00:11:02,649 --> 00:11:05,919 a higher degree of self-enhancement and impression management. 180 00:11:05,919 --> 00:11:11,589 Just one example: if you prime a Christian with self-esteem primes, 181 00:11:11,590 --> 00:11:16,750 you'll see them actually rating themselves as living up to Christian principles 182 00:11:16,769 --> 00:11:21,259 more often than their fellow believers. If however you do the reverse 183 00:11:21,259 --> 00:11:25,409 and you offer up an assessment that questions their high self-esteem 184 00:11:25,409 --> 00:11:29,230 or make them write about something that they don't like about themselves, 185 00:11:29,230 --> 00:11:31,569 those who are high in intrinsic religiosity 186 00:11:31,569 --> 00:11:36,328 - that means the level of belief - they are more likely 187 00:11:36,328 --> 00:11:39,879 to resort to self-deception as a compensating strategy. 188 00:11:39,879 --> 00:11:42,919 Also highly religious people are particularly 189 00:11:42,919 --> 00:11:47,209 concerned with presenting themselves as moral persons 190 00:11:47,210 --> 00:11:50,060 and particularly threatened when that self-image is challenged. 191 00:11:50,060 --> 00:11:53,510 So, I guess the big question is; "Why do researchers even rely 192 00:11:53,510 --> 00:11:58,240 on these self-reports some of the time?" Well, because at least in some cases 193 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,736 these positive self-assessments are actually corroborated by others: 194 00:12:01,736 --> 00:12:05,032 their family, their colleagues, their peers. 195 00:12:05,032 --> 00:12:08,430 So, third-party evaluators rate religious individuals 196 00:12:08,429 --> 00:12:10,829 as being nicer, more cooperative and highly altruistic 197 00:12:10,830 --> 00:12:15,300 and empathetic as well. To some this is proof 198 00:12:15,299 --> 00:12:20,029 that the self-reports are not self-delusion, they're not moral hypocrisy. 199 00:12:20,029 --> 00:12:23,209 They are correct assessments of their character. 200 00:12:23,210 --> 00:12:26,810 But I think we can still be a little skeptical here. 201 00:12:26,809 --> 00:12:29,700 When we're talking about a predominantly religious society, 202 00:12:29,700 --> 00:12:32,500 where about 80 to 95% of people are religious 203 00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:35,980 and around 75% are at least nominally Christian, 204 00:12:35,980 --> 00:12:39,600 it's a good bet that a significant proportion of those subjects, families 205 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,629 and peers are also religious, 206 00:12:41,629 --> 00:12:44,660 meaning there's a possibility of in-group bias at work here. 207 00:12:44,660 --> 00:12:48,360 And actually there is some evidence to support that. 208 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,529 In-group favoritism is a well-studied phenomenon in social psychology. 209 00:12:52,529 --> 00:12:56,539 Again, this is not just religious people here, this is all of us. 210 00:12:56,539 --> 00:13:00,329 It is natural for individuals to derive self-esteem from the groups 211 00:13:00,329 --> 00:13:01,838 they’re associated with. 212 00:13:01,839 --> 00:13:05,070 It's natural to provide a positive image to the public 213 00:13:05,070 --> 00:13:08,920 for those who share their identity. So, consistent with the predictions 214 00:13:08,919 --> 00:13:10,770 of social identity theory, 215 00:13:10,770 --> 00:13:15,200 we see believers tend to show more favoritism towards other individuals 216 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,360 and speak more poorly of non-religious 217 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,279 and this even includes those from different religious groups. 218 00:13:21,279 --> 00:13:24,870 Often the favoritism - and here's the key point here - 219 00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:28,320 often the favoritism is extended to other religious individuals, 220 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,990 regardless of whether or not they behaved well or poorly, 221 00:13:30,990 --> 00:13:34,700 are still be reviewed more favorably, 222 00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:38,220 even when they've been up to no good. I'll give you an example here 223 00:13:38,220 --> 00:13:43,170 of when sometimes believers will rate religious individuals more highly 224 00:13:43,169 --> 00:13:47,699 than non-religious individuals, even when they exhibit the exact same behaviors. 225 00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:52,089 I was a part of this study which was published in 2011. 226 00:13:52,089 --> 00:13:56,160 I was a participant and so in front of a camera I wore two different T-shirts, 227 00:13:56,159 --> 00:13:59,409 I wore three actually: just a plain white T-shirt 228 00:13:59,409 --> 00:14:03,250 then in the other condition I wore a Jesus fish T-shirt 229 00:14:03,250 --> 00:14:06,708 and then third condition I wore a Darwin fish T-shirt. 230 00:14:06,708 --> 00:14:10,659 And then I read the exact same script each time 231 00:14:10,659 --> 00:14:14,139 which was I was presenting myself as a college student 232 00:14:14,139 --> 00:14:18,819 who was using my spring break to help in disaster relief organization 233 00:14:18,820 --> 00:14:20,770 and talking about my positive experiences. 234 00:14:20,769 --> 00:14:24,439 No mention of religion or anything else. What we found in this study 235 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,240 was that people rated me as more likable, 236 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,750 more intelligent, more trustworthy and more kind, 237 00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:34,750 and more moral overall 238 00:14:34,750 --> 00:14:39,480 when I was wearing the Jesus fish. So exact same behaviors but a subtle cue 239 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:44,160 that I might be religious makes people evaluate my behavior better. 240 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,419 Most studies that rely on peer-rated ratings do not adequately control 241 00:14:47,419 --> 00:14:52,819 for this tendency for in-group bias and that's the problem. 242 00:14:52,820 --> 00:14:56,780 Ideally researchers would ensure that participants are completely unaware 243 00:14:56,779 --> 00:14:59,289 of the religious identity of those they're rating. 244 00:14:59,289 --> 00:15:02,969 Then we have more reason to trust their evaluations as accurate, 245 00:15:02,970 --> 00:15:06,720 but this sadly is rarely the case. However in studies 246 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,870 that do, and most studies where the raters 247 00:15:09,870 --> 00:15:13,509 are actually aware of their targets religious identities 248 00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:15,869 a clear bias emerges and that suggests 249 00:15:15,869 --> 00:15:18,970 an in-group bias when the people know they're religious, 250 00:15:18,970 --> 00:15:23,360 they rate them more positively. There is an interesting twist to all of this: 251 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,909 non-religious individuals do not appear to rate their fellow non-believers 252 00:15:27,909 --> 00:15:31,919 as any more pro-social than they do the religious. For some reason this 253 00:15:31,919 --> 00:15:37,049 in-group bias doesn't seem to be affecting the non-religious to the same degree. 254 00:15:37,049 --> 00:15:40,809 Now should the fact that non-religious people also rate 255 00:15:40,809 --> 00:15:45,139 the religious highly, indicate that these judgments are based on a clear 256 00:15:45,139 --> 00:15:48,659 added assessment of their character? Are atheists really going to have 257 00:15:48,659 --> 00:15:53,049 a pro-religious bias? Actually it's quite possible that they would 258 00:15:53,049 --> 00:15:56,929 if their judgments have been swayed by a strong religious, 259 00:15:56,929 --> 00:15:58,458 pro-religious cultural stereotype. 260 00:15:58,458 --> 00:16:01,948 And again, there is evidence to suggest that's the case. 261 00:16:01,948 --> 00:16:05,029 Here's more evidence for a pro-religious stereotype, 262 00:16:05,029 --> 00:16:08,559 that we can find by looking at similar studies that are conducted 263 00:16:08,559 --> 00:16:10,849 in different cultures than our own. 264 00:16:10,850 --> 00:16:15,199 For example some report that happiness, life satisfaction 265 00:16:15,198 --> 00:16:17,019 and personality measures like agreeableness 266 00:16:17,019 --> 00:16:20,539 are more closely associated with religion in the United States 267 00:16:20,539 --> 00:16:25,068 than in the United Kingdom or Northern Europe where religion is less dominant. 268 00:16:25,068 --> 00:16:28,750 To give you one specific example: this particular study here 269 00:16:28,750 --> 00:16:34,789 asks people to rate their impressions of people just from looking at photographs 270 00:16:34,789 --> 00:16:36,726 of faces and smiling faces were judged 271 00:16:36,726 --> 00:16:40,633 to be more religious than non smiling faces. 272 00:16:40,633 --> 00:16:44,350 That was in the United States. In the United Kingdom 273 00:16:44,350 --> 00:16:47,068 the exact opposite was true and 274 00:16:47,068 --> 00:16:50,889 tends to be a general relationship 275 00:16:50,889 --> 00:16:54,039 between religion and self-control, mental well-being, 276 00:16:54,039 --> 00:16:57,099 psychological adjustment, social support. 277 00:16:57,100 --> 00:17:00,870 In general in societies where the non-religious are the majority 278 00:17:00,870 --> 00:17:04,588 the non-religious are rated more favorably 279 00:17:04,588 --> 00:17:08,848 on all those particular measures. So, again evidence that there 280 00:17:08,848 --> 00:17:10,809 is a cultural bias at work here. 281 00:17:10,809 --> 00:17:13,598 I think by now it should be clear that self-report data doesn't provide 282 00:17:13,598 --> 00:17:17,969 reliable evidence for the religious pro-social reality hypothesis. 283 00:17:17,970 --> 00:17:21,920 Self-evaluations on religious subjects are vulnerable to self-enhancement, 284 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:26,348 impression management, distortions and others and they are contaminated 285 00:17:26,348 --> 00:17:30,639 quite possibly by a widely-held pro-religious cultural stereotype. 286 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,890 It might be better instead of trusting self-reports 287 00:17:34,890 --> 00:17:38,720 to look at experimentally controlled measures of behavior 288 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:43,199 or, if you prefer the way Jesus might say it, we should judge believers 289 00:17:43,199 --> 00:17:46,809 by their fruit not by their words. Let's look at 290 00:17:46,809 --> 00:17:50,329 what their actual deeds tell us. Well, for one religious individuals 291 00:17:50,329 --> 00:17:53,649 claim to value forgiveness more than others 292 00:17:53,650 --> 00:17:57,430 but actually any effect of their religiosity on actual forgiveness 293 00:17:57,430 --> 00:18:01,600 has been found to be negligible. This is just one study 294 00:18:01,599 --> 00:18:06,049 that shows that the comparison of self-reports with controlled experiments 295 00:18:06,049 --> 00:18:09,269 on behavior reveal how often believers 296 00:18:09,269 --> 00:18:11,916 fail to live up to their high opinion of themselves. 297 00:18:11,916 --> 00:18:17,023 Those in high in intrinsic religiosity again - this is a measure of belief - 298 00:18:17,023 --> 00:18:19,710 reported a more grateful disposition but don't do not perform 299 00:18:19,710 --> 00:18:21,920 better than anyone else in studies 300 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,380 measuring reciprocal behavioral gratitude: "Will they give back?" 301 00:18:25,380 --> 00:18:29,460 High intrinsic religiosity doesn't seem to reduce aggression 302 00:18:29,460 --> 00:18:32,700 here is the scary detail: it tends to make people think 303 00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:34,869 they're less aggressive than they really are. 304 00:18:34,869 --> 00:18:38,238 Fundamentalists in particular report 305 00:18:38,238 --> 00:18:41,009 higher levels of altruism towards everybody 306 00:18:41,009 --> 00:18:44,599 but in reality they are more willing to help friends 307 00:18:44,599 --> 00:18:48,279 or like-minded individuals. They're not as likely to help strangers 308 00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:51,519 or what is sometimes called 'value violators', 309 00:18:51,519 --> 00:18:54,710 perhaps like a homosexual or something like that, 310 00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:59,000 that is clearly on the wrong side of the divide on some culture war issue. 311 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,369 We have to remember again that everyone tends 312 00:19:02,369 --> 00:19:05,389 to overestimate how moral they actually are. 313 00:19:05,390 --> 00:19:09,560 So, this is really common to find a gap between how individuals predict 314 00:19:09,559 --> 00:19:11,720 they'll behave and how they actually behave. 315 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,500 If we were to take everybody in this room we would probably 316 00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:16,509 see the exact same phenomena. 317 00:19:16,509 --> 00:19:20,190 We are no different. It's just that the fact 318 00:19:20,190 --> 00:19:23,370 seems to be more pronounced in religious populations. 319 00:19:23,369 --> 00:19:28,260 As we said before, highly religious do show a greater tendency 320 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,020 towards self-enhancement on questionnaires and this disjunction 321 00:19:32,020 --> 00:19:34,200 between self-reported measured behavior 322 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,019 is actually wider in the religious than in the rest of the population. 323 00:19:38,019 --> 00:19:40,750 In fact the greatest gap we can see 324 00:19:40,750 --> 00:19:44,650 between altruistic beliefs and altruistic behaviors 325 00:19:44,650 --> 00:19:47,629 is actually found in those who rate religion 326 00:19:47,629 --> 00:19:49,799 as more important to them personally. 327 00:19:49,799 --> 00:19:53,779 What's funny is that sometimes the experimental evidence 328 00:19:53,779 --> 00:19:57,730 is so contrary to our stereotypes about religion 329 00:19:57,730 --> 00:20:01,400 that some researchers put a spin on this conclusion. 330 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,950 What they're publishing is showing no positive effect for religion 331 00:20:05,950 --> 00:20:09,169 but their abstracts or the way they interpret the data 332 00:20:09,169 --> 00:20:13,230 speaks in glowing terms. For example this particular study here. 333 00:20:13,230 --> 00:20:16,920 McCullough & Worthington in 1999 said that 334 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,830 "Even if religious people are no more facile 335 00:20:20,829 --> 00:20:24,869 at forgiving in real life situations than are less religious people, 336 00:20:24,869 --> 00:20:29,699 they do you desire to be forgiving and go on about how great it is that they 337 00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:32,370 want to be good forgiving people." 338 00:20:32,369 --> 00:20:36,219 I'd like to argue to you that praising the leaders for their moral intentions 339 00:20:36,220 --> 00:20:37,950 kind of misses the point. 340 00:20:37,950 --> 00:20:41,390 It's not that we just desire to be better - and that's good - 341 00:20:41,390 --> 00:20:44,690 in some cases they already think they're superior. 342 00:20:44,690 --> 00:20:49,360 And there are major dangers in having an unrealistic assessment 343 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,049 of one's own character and limits 344 00:20:51,049 --> 00:20:54,409 Let's move on to a different type of study: 345 00:20:54,410 --> 00:20:58,340 religious priming studies. Although religious individuals do not seem 346 00:20:58,339 --> 00:21:00,359 to behave as morally as they report, 347 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,599 it would still be very odd. I personally would find it strange 348 00:21:03,599 --> 00:21:07,089 if religion didn't have some impact on moral behavior. 349 00:21:07,089 --> 00:21:11,439 After all, scriptures and sermons abound with exhortations to love thy neighbor, 350 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,820 to do unto others as you would have them do onto you 351 00:21:14,819 --> 00:21:17,830 and I think frequent exposure to these messages 352 00:21:17,830 --> 00:21:20,120 would result in pro-social behaviors. 353 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,239 So priming studies are a useful way of seeving this out. 354 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,420 Again participants are primed somehow. Maybe they have to unscramble 355 00:21:28,420 --> 00:21:30,359 a word bank and it has religious words in it. 356 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,208 Or perhaps they have to read 357 00:21:32,208 --> 00:21:35,259 a portion of Scripture and write a response to it. 358 00:21:35,259 --> 00:21:38,410 Sometimes it can be really subtle: symbols in the room, 359 00:21:38,410 --> 00:21:40,039 a crucifix in the room, 360 00:21:40,039 --> 00:21:44,279 jewelry or clothing. Sometimes it's just the context. 361 00:21:44,279 --> 00:21:48,250 Conducting the experiment in a church instead of, 362 00:21:48,250 --> 00:21:51,440 say, a high school gymnasium or something like that. 363 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,210 Well the good news of priming studies is that this is the best evidence 364 00:21:55,210 --> 00:21:58,539 we can find for the religious pro-sociality hypothesis. 365 00:21:58,539 --> 00:22:00,612 There's a lot of data supporting it. 366 00:22:00,612 --> 00:22:01,955 There are good studies 367 00:22:01,955 --> 00:22:04,759 showing greater honesty and generosity 368 00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:07,819 amongst the religious, increased sharing, 369 00:22:07,819 --> 00:22:11,000 increased cooperation, better self-control in distressing situations 370 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,670 and greater resistance to temptation. 371 00:22:15,670 --> 00:22:20,100 So why are religious concepts so good at priming these kinds of behavior? 372 00:22:20,099 --> 00:22:22,719 Several studies cited a possible mechanism here. 373 00:22:22,719 --> 00:22:25,279 'Supernatural surveillance' they called it. 374 00:22:25,279 --> 00:22:29,250 The belief that one's actions are constantly and inescapably 375 00:22:29,250 --> 00:22:31,549 being observed by a divine being. 376 00:22:31,549 --> 00:22:34,559 Thinking that this is a strong reminder to us 377 00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:37,829 to be aware of our actions and perhaps that's why 378 00:22:37,829 --> 00:22:41,729 religious concepts prime these pro-social behaviors. 379 00:22:41,729 --> 00:22:44,995 God might be watching after all. 380 00:22:44,995 --> 00:22:46,861 But I wont to share some curious details 381 00:22:46,861 --> 00:22:50,849 that aren't as often shared in these priming studies. 382 00:22:50,849 --> 00:22:54,139 Neutral religious works like Bible, the Cycle ???? 383 00:22:54,140 --> 00:22:58,049 or Chapel don't seem to promote any helping behavior. 384 00:22:58,048 --> 00:23:01,259 It seems to be only positive words like heaven, miracle or bless 385 00:23:01,259 --> 00:23:05,019 that have that effect on people. Even more interesting 386 00:23:05,019 --> 00:23:08,019 the positive effects don't seem to be dependent 387 00:23:08,019 --> 00:23:12,139 on the participants level of religiosity. You can be just kind of religious 388 00:23:12,140 --> 00:23:14,050 or you could be a hardcore fundamentalist 389 00:23:14,050 --> 00:23:17,280 and the priming affects you the same way. 390 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,750 Also, non-religious people respond positively to religious primes 391 00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:24,760 and to the exact same degree as their religious counterparts. 392 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:30,839 If you were to look at all those symbols, you would act more morally too. 393 00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:34,369 Even more interesting: priming secular concepts, like civil 394 00:23:34,369 --> 00:23:37,699 or court, seem to have the same power to promote 395 00:23:37,700 --> 00:23:41,600 honesty or lower hypocrisy as religious primes do. 396 00:23:41,599 --> 00:23:44,849 And religious destructive atheists: 397 00:23:44,849 --> 00:23:48,469 the distrust they have for us goes down 398 00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:52,179 when the religious are primed with concepts of secular authority. 399 00:23:52,179 --> 00:23:55,409 That's really interesting. Why would that possibly be? 400 00:23:55,409 --> 00:24:00,010 Well, one idea, not exactly sure, but one idea is that the leaders know 401 00:24:00,009 --> 00:24:03,679 that atheists do not live their lives as if God is watching them. 402 00:24:03,679 --> 00:24:06,240 So without the supernatural monitoring they may wonder 403 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,579 what reason we have for behaving well. 404 00:24:09,579 --> 00:24:14,198 But this distrust can be ameliorated when we are reminded 405 00:24:14,198 --> 00:24:16,869 that morality can be monitored in different ways. 406 00:24:16,869 --> 00:24:18,928 So these kind of pacific primes remind everybody; 407 00:24:18,928 --> 00:24:22,650 "Oh wait, there is a social order, there is something keeping these 408 00:24:22,650 --> 00:24:27,059 evil atheists in check." And so their negative impressions go down. 409 00:24:27,058 --> 00:24:30,658 Amazingly even the presence of a mirror 410 00:24:30,659 --> 00:24:36,130 or just pictures of eyes in the laboratory will actually have these same effects 411 00:24:36,130 --> 00:24:41,109 which actually really boost that notion of supernatural surveillance. 412 00:24:41,109 --> 00:24:46,110 Obviously this has implications for the religious pro-sociality hypothesis. 413 00:24:46,109 --> 00:24:49,479 Religious concepts do not seem 414 00:24:49,479 --> 00:24:54,309 to prime pro-social behavior like honesty because they're religious. 415 00:24:54,309 --> 00:24:58,888 It may be that any concepts that are associated with morality in a particular 416 00:24:58,888 --> 00:25:03,269 culture trigger greater concern for protecting your reputation. 417 00:25:03,269 --> 00:25:05,899 Again since there's a widespread cultural stereotype 418 00:25:05,899 --> 00:25:08,389 that religion is linked to morality here, 419 00:25:08,390 --> 00:25:12,250 religious concepts will activate moral behavior, but as we pointed out 420 00:25:12,250 --> 00:25:14,596 secular primes do just as well. 421 00:25:14,596 --> 00:25:17,002 While the positive effects of religious priming 422 00:25:17,002 --> 00:25:21,058 are the stuff of headlines, what you don't usually hear about is the dark side 423 00:25:21,058 --> 00:25:22,545 of religious primes. 424 00:25:22,545 --> 00:25:24,592 Numerous studies demonstrate 425 00:25:24,592 --> 00:25:26,359 that socially undesirable behaviors 426 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,689 also manifest when subjects are exposed to religious messages. 427 00:25:30,689 --> 00:25:34,679 So for example, participants who read passages from the Bible 428 00:25:34,679 --> 00:25:38,990 depicting God sanctioned violence, administer more electrical shocks 429 00:25:38,990 --> 00:25:40,558 than the control group in studies of aggression. 430 00:25:40,558 --> 00:25:45,329 We should note this works on non-believers as well. 431 00:25:45,329 --> 00:25:49,308 Even a non-believer reading those passages from the Bible 432 00:25:49,308 --> 00:25:53,678 will also become more vicious in their behaviors toward somebody. 433 00:25:53,679 --> 00:25:57,929 It's just that the effect seems to be more pronounced for believers. 434 00:25:57,929 --> 00:26:01,159 Especially disturbing is this subgroup 435 00:26:01,159 --> 00:26:05,099 of religious believers high in intrinsic religiosity 436 00:26:05,099 --> 00:26:07,759 and also high in levels of submissiveness. 437 00:26:07,759 --> 00:26:12,149 This group was very disturbing because they became the most vengeful 438 00:26:12,149 --> 00:26:16,178 after being primed with religious words. They really seemed to go off the rails. 439 00:26:16,178 --> 00:26:19,489 So I guess what I'm saying is: it doesn't affect all people equally. 440 00:26:19,489 --> 00:26:23,528 Certain personality characteristics come into play here too 441 00:26:23,528 --> 00:26:26,950 to either aggravate or kind of mute these responses. 442 00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:31,330 I'd like to share this study real quick. Experiments where people were assigned 443 00:26:31,330 --> 00:26:34,320 to read the biblical version of the golden rule 444 00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:38,070 actually had no effect on diminishing Christians’ homophobia. 445 00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:40,342 So, negative attitudes towards homosexuals 446 00:26:40,342 --> 00:26:41,714 were not at all diminished 447 00:26:41,714 --> 00:26:45,308 by reading what we think is a very positive prime, 448 00:26:45,308 --> 00:26:49,558 right, the golden rule. Strangely enough reading the Buddhist version 449 00:26:49,558 --> 00:26:53,980 of the golden rule actually increased their homophobic responses. 450 00:26:53,980 --> 00:26:57,750 If they read another religious text telling them to be merciful 451 00:26:57,750 --> 00:27:01,429 and do onto others as you would have them to do want to them, 452 00:27:01,429 --> 00:27:05,415 they wanted to do that even less. This is perhaps 453 00:27:05,415 --> 00:27:08,241 because the moral imperative 454 00:27:08,241 --> 00:27:11,649 was coming from this distrusted out-group source. 455 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,870 Likewise unscrambling words associated with Christianity increased 456 00:27:15,869 --> 00:27:17,779 racial prejudice towards african-americans 457 00:27:17,779 --> 00:27:21,949 that was found by Johnson, lead author Johnson in 2010. 458 00:27:21,949 --> 00:27:26,250 And attitudes toward all out-group members became more negative 459 00:27:26,250 --> 00:27:29,278 when experiments were conducted in a church setting rather than 460 00:27:29,278 --> 00:27:32,359 than in a civic context. 461 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,999 This is a strange paradox we're looking at here. 462 00:27:34,999 --> 00:27:37,109 Religious priming seems to increase 463 00:27:37,109 --> 00:27:42,158 both pro-social behaviors like honesty and sharing, and non pro-social behaviors 464 00:27:42,159 --> 00:27:47,270 like aggression and prejudice. This will make more sense I think to us when we 465 00:27:47,269 --> 00:27:49,079 consider another curious, 466 00:27:49,079 --> 00:27:52,528 but consistent finding in this literature 467 00:27:52,528 --> 00:27:55,740 that the kindness of religious individuals is typically not 468 00:27:55,740 --> 00:27:58,769 extended universally to everyone. 469 00:27:58,769 --> 00:28:02,849 Instead the primary beneficiaries of a religious pro-sociality 470 00:28:02,849 --> 00:28:09,110 are usually other believers. This can be most clearly seen in economic games. 471 00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:12,359 So, to save a little bit of time I'm not going to go into how all of 472 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:17,658 these games work, but they basically start with people trading or exchanging money. 473 00:28:17,679 --> 00:28:22,218 Those games are designed to encourage cooperation and trust. 474 00:28:22,218 --> 00:28:26,349 So basically if the players work together, 475 00:28:26,349 --> 00:28:29,869 they will both get further along, but one player 476 00:28:29,869 --> 00:28:34,918 might have the opportunity to make off with more money if they deceive or lie 477 00:28:34,919 --> 00:28:37,628 or cheat the other players. So this is all trying 478 00:28:37,628 --> 00:28:39,829 to assess cooperation, trust, 479 00:28:39,829 --> 00:28:43,678 giving, that sort of thing. The economic games shown 480 00:28:43,679 --> 00:28:48,769 in behavioral economic studies where the religiosity of the participants is none. 481 00:28:48,769 --> 00:28:52,220 - so we actually know what they are - a general trend emerges: 482 00:28:52,220 --> 00:28:55,950 religious individuals cooperate more and give more money 483 00:28:55,950 --> 00:28:59,149 than non-religious participants. So they do that overall. 484 00:28:59,148 --> 00:29:02,808 They give more and they trust more than the non-religious. 485 00:29:02,808 --> 00:29:06,139 The pro-sociality hypothesis is true. 486 00:29:06,140 --> 00:29:09,196 It's just has that twist: they only give it to those 487 00:29:09,196 --> 00:29:10,972 who share their religious identity. 488 00:29:10,972 --> 00:29:15,308 For example this study, Ahmed, 2009 found the clergy students 489 00:29:15,308 --> 00:29:19,339 exchanged greater money offers than non clergy students, 490 00:29:19,339 --> 00:29:23,928 but only to those from their own religious group. 491 00:29:23,929 --> 00:29:25,788 These findings are almost, well, they are most likely due 492 00:29:25,788 --> 00:29:29,679 to that previous phenomenon we mentioned of in-group favoritism. 493 00:29:29,679 --> 00:29:33,659 But there also might be something else going on here. This might be that 494 00:29:33,659 --> 00:29:35,600 pro-religious cultural stereotype 495 00:29:35,599 --> 00:29:39,449 happening again, because notice: non-religious participants 496 00:29:39,450 --> 00:29:42,610 did not show the same in-group favoritism 497 00:29:42,609 --> 00:29:46,098 in those economic games. They also trusted 498 00:29:46,098 --> 00:29:50,778 religious participants more than their non-religious peers 499 00:29:50,778 --> 00:29:54,609 and allocated more money to them overall, even though that money 500 00:29:54,609 --> 00:29:56,889 would not be reciprocated. 501 00:29:56,889 --> 00:30:01,509 Yeah, it's amazing how ingrained that stereotype is. 502 00:30:01,509 --> 00:30:03,408 This pattern of preferential treatment 503 00:30:03,408 --> 00:30:06,027 is not limited to behavioral economic studies. 504 00:30:06,027 --> 00:30:10,268 It constitutes a general trend across the entire literature. 505 00:30:10,269 --> 00:30:13,620 In fact a new word had to be coined just to explain it. 506 00:30:13,619 --> 00:30:17,908 One researcher who is very popular in this by the name of Saroglou 507 00:30:17,909 --> 00:30:21,580 coined the term "minimal prosociality", 508 00:30:21,579 --> 00:30:25,089 meaning the greater helping on the part of the religious that extended to friends 509 00:30:25,089 --> 00:30:27,849 an in-group members but not too out-group members 510 00:30:27,849 --> 00:30:30,879 who threatened religious values. 511 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,179 So, I guess the correct way to say it or was consistent with most of the evidence 512 00:30:35,179 --> 00:30:36,330 in these economic games 513 00:30:36,329 --> 00:30:39,558 are that religious people are ‘minimally pro-social’. 514 00:30:39,558 --> 00:30:43,629 And actually if we take this idea of limited pro-sociality seriously 515 00:30:43,630 --> 00:30:46,760 it explains a lot of other trends that we see in the data. 516 00:30:46,759 --> 00:30:50,119 For example across different cultures we see that religiosity 517 00:30:50,119 --> 00:30:56,119 is weakly but still positively correlated with the value of benevolence, 518 00:30:56,119 --> 00:31:01,009 charity, helping people out and yet at the same time is negatively 519 00:31:01,009 --> 00:31:03,398 related with the value of universalism, 520 00:31:03,398 --> 00:31:06,449 helping out, you know, your neighbor, your stranger, 521 00:31:06,450 --> 00:31:10,600 the Good Samaritan, that type of thing. Again it seems like a contradiction, 522 00:31:10,599 --> 00:31:13,600 but when you take the idea of limited 523 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,860 or minimal pro-sociality seriously, 524 00:31:15,859 --> 00:31:19,509 it tends to make more sense. It's that in-group favoritism again. 525 00:31:19,509 --> 00:31:23,129 Also it might explain things like why religious primes 526 00:31:23,129 --> 00:31:24,308 increase ethnic prejudice 527 00:31:24,308 --> 00:31:27,308 and derogation of out-group members, 528 00:31:27,308 --> 00:31:31,500 because religious concepts activated in-group bias in people's minds. 529 00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:34,548 This also plays through religious research on giving. 530 00:31:34,548 --> 00:31:37,710 This one conclusion I'm not as sure about, 531 00:31:37,710 --> 00:31:42,470 but it is very clear that religious organizations themselves 532 00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:46,589 are the largest source of charitable giving. Religious people give way more to charity 533 00:31:46,589 --> 00:31:51,418 than the non-religious and that finding has held up across the board. 534 00:31:51,419 --> 00:31:54,960 But as other studies note, many of the recipients of these, 535 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,340 even ones that are labeled secular, 536 00:31:58,339 --> 00:32:02,589 tend to be religious or some religious organization. 537 00:32:02,589 --> 00:32:05,230 So all this money is exchanging hands within the in-group. 538 00:32:05,230 --> 00:32:07,379 This would be really interesting one to test 539 00:32:07,379 --> 00:32:09,408 if we can tease out that in-group favoritism 540 00:32:09,409 --> 00:32:12,880 would we still see a charity gap between the non-religious 541 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,090 and the religious? We might, actually I suspect, we probably would 542 00:32:17,089 --> 00:32:21,418 and for this reason there's another aspect 543 00:32:21,419 --> 00:32:25,210 to religious charitable giving, and that is generosity 544 00:32:25,210 --> 00:32:29,048 measured as a function of religious importance 545 00:32:29,048 --> 00:32:33,139 was smaller than those measured as a variation in religious attendance. 546 00:32:33,140 --> 00:32:37,390 That is church attendance seems to be the key factor 547 00:32:37,390 --> 00:32:40,690 in how much a religious person will give. 548 00:32:40,690 --> 00:32:44,869 If you actually measure religiosity by belief, 549 00:32:44,869 --> 00:32:48,889 how much conviction do you have that God exists 550 00:32:48,890 --> 00:32:52,049 we'll see that that predicts giving to a lesser degree 551 00:32:52,048 --> 00:32:55,048 then church attendance. I think what's going on here is 552 00:32:55,048 --> 00:32:58,519 when you're actually in the building, you're given an opportunity 553 00:32:58,519 --> 00:33:01,919 to give, right? The plate is passed around 554 00:33:01,919 --> 00:33:05,820 and there's social pressure for you to put something in that plate. 555 00:33:05,819 --> 00:33:09,480 I still think the religious should get credit for this, but they get credit for 556 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,528 building institutions that support charitable giving. 557 00:33:12,528 --> 00:33:14,950 It may not be the belief, the religious belief, 558 00:33:14,950 --> 00:33:17,130 that's really motivating this behavior. 559 00:33:17,130 --> 00:33:19,470 So I guess that kind of brings up an interesting question here. 560 00:33:19,470 --> 00:33:22,839 How actually are we measuring religiosity 561 00:33:22,839 --> 00:33:25,878 because, as we just saw, depending on how we measured it, 562 00:33:25,878 --> 00:33:28,259 we might get different effects. 563 00:33:28,259 --> 00:33:32,470 Typically the methodology that's employed here is to compare 564 00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:35,980 a general population of people to highly religious people 565 00:33:35,980 --> 00:33:39,950 and weekly religious people. And then the atheists agnostics 566 00:33:39,950 --> 00:33:43,588 or all the nones, we call them, those who declare no religious affiliation, 567 00:33:43,588 --> 00:33:45,648 are mixed into that sample as well. 568 00:33:45,648 --> 00:33:48,970 There are different ways again of measuring 569 00:33:48,970 --> 00:33:51,370 intrinsically religiosity as I mentioned is a measure 570 00:33:51,370 --> 00:33:54,190 of metaphysical belief or commitment. 571 00:33:54,190 --> 00:33:58,538 Extrinsic religiosity, as I call it, is often a measure of behavior, 572 00:33:58,538 --> 00:34:01,638 how often do you pray, engage in rituals. 573 00:34:01,638 --> 00:34:04,959 That sometimes includes another way that is measured 574 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,990 is measuring religiosity purely through church attendance alone. 575 00:34:08,990 --> 00:34:13,179 So whenever you see a study that says religious people are better 576 00:34:13,179 --> 00:34:16,570 at XYZ, the next question you should ask is; 577 00:34:16,570 --> 00:34:19,809 "Better compared to whom?" And the reason is: 578 00:34:19,809 --> 00:34:24,139 how one measures religiosity has a major impact on your findings. 579 00:34:24,139 --> 00:34:27,199 For example, frequent church attendance has been linked 580 00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:31,340 to modestly lower rates of mental illness such as depression, 581 00:34:31,340 --> 00:34:34,519 but the effect is negligible when you measure 582 00:34:34,519 --> 00:34:37,098 religiosity as strength of belief. 583 00:34:37,098 --> 00:34:40,268 Again, people have better mental health because they're 584 00:34:40,268 --> 00:34:44,079 in a congregation of people, they have a support social support network, 585 00:34:44,079 --> 00:34:49,359 like-minded people to talk to. The belief doesn't seem to be as important. 586 00:34:49,359 --> 00:34:51,900 Studies that control for purely social factors 587 00:34:51,900 --> 00:34:54,440 find a greatly diminished or non-existent effect 588 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,493 of religious beliefs on pro-social measures. 589 00:34:57,493 --> 00:34:59,336 So you can see how we measure religion 590 00:34:59,336 --> 00:35:03,599 and who we compare our groups to is very important in this debate. 591 00:35:03,599 --> 00:35:06,069 Most frequently the strongest pro-social effects 592 00:35:06,069 --> 00:35:08,369 are associated with church attendance 593 00:35:08,369 --> 00:35:12,170 and social contacts rather than just metaphysical belief. 594 00:35:12,170 --> 00:35:15,930 So it appears that group affiliation drives many of these behaviors. 595 00:35:15,929 --> 00:35:19,949 Could a committed secular group - like this one right here - 596 00:35:19,949 --> 00:35:23,569 have effect on its membership similar to that of a church? 597 00:35:23,570 --> 00:35:27,920 In this book that I mentioned earlier - unfortunately it's buried on page 472 - 598 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:32,769 you have to get through all the good stuff 599 00:35:32,769 --> 00:35:36,060 to finally see this qualification, 600 00:35:36,060 --> 00:35:40,220 but Robert Putnam mentions "even an atheist 601 00:35:40,219 --> 00:35:43,269 who happens to become involved in the social life 602 00:35:43,269 --> 00:35:47,710 of a congregation is much more likely to volunteer at a soup kitchen 603 00:35:47,710 --> 00:35:50,356 then the most fervent believer who prays alone." 604 00:35:50,356 --> 00:35:54,242 And then it goes on to say - or slightly before that on page 465 - 605 00:35:54,242 --> 00:35:59,450 he says: "Religious belief turns out to be utterly irrelevant to explaining the religious 606 00:35:59,450 --> 00:36:04,080 as in good neighbourliness." That should've been on page 1. 607 00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:09,590 But both reviewers in that book didn't get that far. 608 00:36:09,590 --> 00:36:14,160 You can guess how it was depicted in the popular press. 609 00:36:14,159 --> 00:36:18,129 In fact that's a major problem. The problem with most studies is 610 00:36:18,130 --> 00:36:22,119 that they are lumping all nonbelievers together, without considering how 611 00:36:22,119 --> 00:36:24,130 confident they are in their non-belief, 612 00:36:24,130 --> 00:36:27,110 whether or not they attend groups like you do right here, 613 00:36:27,110 --> 00:36:29,300 how involved they are with the community overall. 614 00:36:29,300 --> 00:36:32,890 They're just all dumped into one pool: the non-religious. 615 00:36:32,889 --> 00:36:36,789 And then they're compared with weekly religious and highly religious, 616 00:36:36,789 --> 00:36:40,610 typically highly religious people who are in a church context. 617 00:36:40,610 --> 00:36:44,900 When you do that, you do get what's called a linear effect. 618 00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:49,539 If pro-social, being happy, healthy and more helpful is all on this axis, 619 00:36:49,539 --> 00:36:54,210 and religiosity on this one, we would see as religiosity rises 620 00:36:54,210 --> 00:36:57,339 the more religious you get, the more happy, helpful 621 00:36:57,339 --> 00:37:00,070 and honest you are as an individual. 622 00:37:00,070 --> 00:37:03,380 But what we're kind of doing is we're cutting off half of our sample. 623 00:37:03,380 --> 00:37:06,559 The few studies that compare highly religious people 624 00:37:06,559 --> 00:37:09,570 with the confidently non-religious actually show 625 00:37:09,570 --> 00:37:11,880 what's called a curvilinear effect 626 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,949 between religiosity and pro-sociality. 627 00:37:14,949 --> 00:37:19,459 To explain what's going on with this curvilinear effect, 628 00:37:19,460 --> 00:37:23,690 - I should have had noticed, but I didn't - 629 00:37:23,690 --> 00:37:26,900 Essentially what we do, what we've done is we've expanded our sample. 630 00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:32,340 So before the atheists and agnostics and humanists were getting lost in this side of 631 00:37:32,340 --> 00:37:34,560 the curve now we brought it out 632 00:37:34,559 --> 00:37:38,690 and we actually see that it's the less confident, the weekly religious, 633 00:37:38,690 --> 00:37:40,449 the weekly secular in the middle 634 00:37:40,449 --> 00:37:44,539 that tend to have poor ratings on pro-social measures. 635 00:37:44,539 --> 00:37:48,289 Oh, here's what I was looking for. Nominal believers, 636 00:37:48,289 --> 00:37:51,529 not atheists, show the highest levels of depression actually, 637 00:37:51,530 --> 00:37:53,180 the poorest mental health 638 00:37:53,180 --> 00:37:56,309 and they generally report less satisfaction with life. 639 00:37:56,309 --> 00:38:00,650 And fact is, this is true of the cross-cultural data on this too. 640 00:38:00,670 --> 00:38:04,659 The world value survey found that both those who claim religion is very important 641 00:38:04,659 --> 00:38:06,910 and those who claim that it wasn't important at all, 642 00:38:06,910 --> 00:38:08,720 tended to be the happiest. 643 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:13,509 So curvilinear effects are also found in the moral realm, 644 00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:18,620 for example physicians, Doctors Without Borders and that sort of thing 645 00:38:18,619 --> 00:38:23,309 highest membership is going to be highly religious and totally atheist. 646 00:38:23,309 --> 00:38:24,880 This is true when 647 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,099 Milgrams famous obedience trials - if you're familiar with those studies - 648 00:38:29,099 --> 00:38:31,779 where we get to see just how much will somebody 649 00:38:31,780 --> 00:38:34,546 obey the experimenter. When those were replicated, 650 00:38:34,546 --> 00:38:37,730 it was the extreme believers and the extreme non-believers 651 00:38:37,730 --> 00:38:42,170 that were most likely to disobey the researchers unethical orders. 652 00:38:42,170 --> 00:38:46,779 So actually being highly religious or highly non-religious 653 00:38:46,779 --> 00:38:50,309 seems to give you a little bit more moral integrity. 654 00:38:50,309 --> 00:38:54,039 Part of the hypothesis why this might be is because 655 00:38:54,039 --> 00:38:58,350 these pools of individuals, they're so certain of their world view 656 00:38:58,350 --> 00:39:03,729 that they're not as kicked around by the pressure of social conformity as others. 657 00:39:03,729 --> 00:39:06,460 So it appears that confidence in one's worldview 658 00:39:06,460 --> 00:39:09,129 and regular affiliation with like minded people 659 00:39:09,129 --> 00:39:12,630 are far more important to well-being and moral integrity 660 00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:17,190 than your particular beliefs about metaphysics. Sorry guys, 661 00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:22,050 even some non-believers are sad to hear that sometimes, they want to believe that 662 00:39:22,050 --> 00:39:24,990 believing the right thing, having the right grasp on reality 663 00:39:24,990 --> 00:39:27,420 will make you a better person 664 00:39:27,420 --> 00:39:31,960 and it doesn't seem that metaphysical beliefs are all that important. 665 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:37,290 But sadly studies are not designed to notice curvilinear effects a lot of times 666 00:39:37,290 --> 00:39:41,889 And when they aren't, they can give the impression that atheists are in danger 667 00:39:41,889 --> 00:39:44,375 of poor physical or mental health 668 00:39:44,375 --> 00:39:50,170 and this is exactly what we see with the military's spiritual fitness scale, that they have. 669 00:39:50,170 --> 00:39:52,750 I don't know if anybody has ever heard of that? 670 00:39:52,750 --> 00:39:56,540 The US military has a spiritual fitness dimension in their instrument 671 00:39:56,540 --> 00:40:00,100 that they use to assess a soldier's wellness and mental health. 672 00:40:00,100 --> 00:40:03,890 And they conclude that soldiers have the greatest resiliency 673 00:40:03,890 --> 00:40:06,348 when they are spiritual, when they are religious 674 00:40:06,349 --> 00:40:11,070 and this has prompted some superior officers 675 00:40:11,070 --> 00:40:14,170 to go find their underlings who are non-religious 676 00:40:14,170 --> 00:40:18,559 and to pressure them into prayer meetings and other religious services, right, 677 00:40:18,559 --> 00:40:22,060 because it's bad for their health. They might be in a suicide risk. 678 00:40:22,060 --> 00:40:29,110 However though an examination of the actual question items on the spirituality scale 679 00:40:29,110 --> 00:40:31,948 shows a major flaw in the way these concepts are measured. 680 00:40:31,948 --> 00:40:36,699 And it's going to be my last major point about how this research is conducted. 681 00:40:36,699 --> 00:40:39,173 "Criterion contamination" 682 00:40:39,173 --> 00:40:42,180 this is where the pro-sociality literature 683 00:40:42,180 --> 00:40:46,119 defines spirituality in a way that kind of begs the question. 684 00:40:46,119 --> 00:40:50,650 So for example, usually when we make a prediction 685 00:40:50,650 --> 00:40:55,309 of some sort of criterion, you want the items used in the prediction 686 00:40:55,309 --> 00:40:58,650 to not contain elements of what is being predicted. 687 00:40:58,650 --> 00:41:03,278 If you flip the conclusion and you put it in your premise, 688 00:41:03,278 --> 00:41:05,690 you're arguing in a circle, right? 689 00:41:05,690 --> 00:41:08,439 But yet we see this happen all the time, 690 00:41:08,439 --> 00:41:10,629 we see the reverse happening all the time. 691 00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:14,970 For example this right here. Religiously engaged individuals 692 00:41:14,969 --> 00:41:19,009 have greater social networks, but religious engagement 693 00:41:19,010 --> 00:41:23,000 was defined by having church social contacts. 694 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,760 So really all this is saying - I mean it sounds really good, right? - 695 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:31,130 Doesn't it? Wow? Religious engagement really benefits us. 696 00:41:31,130 --> 00:41:34,340 All this is saying, is; "Socially engaged religious people 697 00:41:34,340 --> 00:41:36,318 are socially engaged religious people." 698 00:41:36,318 --> 00:41:41,349 That is all that is said . Many spirituality scales measure concepts 699 00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:45,649 that do not necessarily refer to supernatural believes either. 700 00:41:45,650 --> 00:41:49,800 For example, these are all the things that will get you a high rating as a 701 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,750 spiritual person on these fitness scales. 702 00:41:52,750 --> 00:41:55,960 "I believe there is a larger meaning to life. 703 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,559 It's important for me to give something back to my community." 704 00:41:59,559 --> 00:42:03,378 If you answer yes to that, you're labeled as religious on this scale. 705 00:42:03,378 --> 00:42:06,958 "I believe that humanity as a whole is basically good." 706 00:42:06,958 --> 00:42:09,629 If you have a positive humanistic outlook, 707 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,920 you might say you're going to score on that spirituality scale too. 708 00:42:13,940 --> 00:42:18,809 "I'm concerned about those who will come after me in life." 709 00:42:18,809 --> 00:42:22,929 So numerous studies including this military spiritual fitness assessment 710 00:42:22,929 --> 00:42:27,318 claims to demonstrate that religiosity is related to pro-social outcomes, 711 00:42:27,318 --> 00:42:30,780 but they are really just criterion contamination effects. 712 00:42:30,780 --> 00:42:33,069 Having pro-social traits here 713 00:42:33,069 --> 00:42:35,650 is what defines being religious. 714 00:42:35,650 --> 00:42:38,930 Just begging the question. And as we know many atheists 715 00:42:38,929 --> 00:42:42,789 with a broader sense of meaning would score ‘spiritual’ on these same scales. 716 00:42:42,789 --> 00:42:47,440 This artificially inflates the apparent relationship between religiosity 717 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,019 or spirituality and these positive pro-social outcomes. 718 00:42:51,019 --> 00:42:54,710 All right. So, tying it all together. 719 00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:58,849 The question; “Does religion make us better?” actually doesn't admit 720 00:42:58,849 --> 00:43:02,579 of a simple answer. You've already seen evidence showing: "yes and no" 721 00:43:02,579 --> 00:43:07,189 or "yes in particular ways and no and other particular ways". 722 00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:10,470 Unfortunately this stuff just doesn't work in a sound bite 723 00:43:10,469 --> 00:43:12,489 and we live in a sound-bite culture. 724 00:43:12,489 --> 00:43:14,929 The conclusion one reaches depends 725 00:43:14,929 --> 00:43:19,799 on the measure of religiosity being used; the way pro-sociality is defined. 726 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,043 We have to be cognizant of a host of 727 00:43:23,043 --> 00:43:25,746 complicating factors if we're going to be accurate. 728 00:43:25,746 --> 00:43:30,509 Really this is like a minefield for a critical thinker. 729 00:43:30,509 --> 00:43:35,529 Even the most experienced critical thinker is going to run into problems 730 00:43:35,530 --> 00:43:37,870 with how complex this data is. 731 00:43:37,870 --> 00:43:43,329 So we came up with 10 questions for thinking critically about religious pro-sociality 732 00:43:43,329 --> 00:43:48,698 that will help people in the future to think more carefully about these studies. 733 00:43:48,698 --> 00:43:53,030 Number 1: has the research controlled for the possibility that stereotypes 734 00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:58,040 - such as the expectation that religious individuals will be more pro-social - 735 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,250 have those stereotypes affected self-reports and ratings? 736 00:44:01,250 --> 00:44:04,699 2: Are the results based on evidence that have been compromised 737 00:44:04,699 --> 00:44:07,139 by in-group favoritism or bias? 738 00:44:07,139 --> 00:44:10,909 3: When pro-social effects follow the priming of religious concepts, 739 00:44:10,909 --> 00:44:13,540 will those same effects follow secular prime? 740 00:44:13,540 --> 00:44:16,010 That's a great one for the priming study. 741 00:44:16,010 --> 00:44:20,460 Number 4: is the study also able to detect potential negative 742 00:44:20,460 --> 00:44:23,490 as well as positive effects for religious primes? 743 00:44:23,489 --> 00:44:29,228 5: Is the research based on self-reports or does it also measures actual behaviors? 744 00:44:29,228 --> 00:44:33,559 If it doesn't measure actual behaviors, it's worthless. 745 00:44:33,579 --> 00:44:38,339 6: could the context of this study have an impact on the results? For example, 746 00:44:38,338 --> 00:44:42,670 would this study get the same results in the United States as opposed to 747 00:44:42,670 --> 00:44:47,990 other nations in Northern Europe that are predominately non-religious? 748 00:44:47,989 --> 00:44:52,169 7: are the results solely attributable to religious belief itself 749 00:44:52,170 --> 00:44:54,419 or is there a group affiliation effect going on? 750 00:44:54,419 --> 00:44:58,410 If church attending believers are compared to non church attenders, 751 00:44:58,410 --> 00:45:01,699 the sources of any differences might be unclear. 752 00:45:01,699 --> 00:45:05,868 Number 8: does the study conflate non-believe with low religiosity 753 00:45:05,869 --> 00:45:09,480 or do we have a clear measure of the non-believers? 754 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:14,029 By the way, for we gonna fulfill number 8 we need more research on secularists. 755 00:45:14,039 --> 00:45:17,818 So we need more researchers willing to study communities like this 756 00:45:17,818 --> 00:45:20,061 and answer surveys and that sort of things. 757 00:45:20,061 --> 00:45:22,284 If you ever see those things pop up in your inbox. 758 00:45:22,284 --> 00:45:25,509 Please take'm. You will help us all. 759 00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:28,399 Number 9: do the religious groups under comparison allow 760 00:45:28,399 --> 00:45:31,039 for an examination of curvilinear effects? 761 00:45:31,039 --> 00:45:33,630 That is, if you're comparing a church group, 762 00:45:33,630 --> 00:45:39,159 you got to compare it with an equal group like this. 763 00:45:39,159 --> 00:45:42,120 Number 10: has religion or spirituality 764 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,818 been defined in a way that would also include 765 00:45:45,818 --> 00:45:48,949 pro-social behavior just from the definition? 766 00:45:48,949 --> 00:45:52,849 I think if you watch for those things you're going to have a leg up 767 00:45:52,849 --> 00:45:58,060 on most other people who are paying attention to this particular research. 768 00:45:58,060 --> 00:46:01,960 I hope you got something out of that. I hope that brings a little more clarity 769 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,400 to this often confusing debate 770 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:09,459 and a last thing I just wont to put in another plug for my podcast: 771 00:46:09,459 --> 00:46:16,010 if you happen to enjoy what you heart tonight, found it enlightening at all, 772 00:46:16,010 --> 00:46:19,499 both I and the author of the the Psych Review, Luke Galen, 773 00:46:19,499 --> 00:46:22,285 we both work on this podcast "Reasonable Doubts", 774 00:46:22,285 --> 00:46:25,929 you can find it at doubtcast.org. 775 00:46:25,929 --> 00:46:28,362 It is one of the most informationally dense podcasts you'll find 776 00:46:28,362 --> 00:46:31,425 that still manages to be funny from time to time. 777 00:46:31,425 --> 00:46:33,000 I thank you very much. 778 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:40,840 (Applause) 779 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,709 To catch up on past Reasonable Doubts episodes 780 00:46:44,709 --> 00:46:46,358 or to email your questions or comments, 781 00:46:46,358 --> 00:46:50,190 check out www.doubtcast.org 782 00:46:50,190 --> 00:46:53,712 Reasonable Doubt is a production of WPRR Reality Radio. 783 00:46:53,712 --> 00:46:59,029 You can find out more about Reality Radio at publicrealityradio.org 784 00:46:59,029 --> 00:47:04,008 Reasonable Doubt's theme music is performed by Love Fossil and used with permission 785 00:47:04,334 --> 00:47:17,961 Subtitled by www.kritischdenken.info