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It's time for Windows weekly with Paul Thurrott and Mary-Jo Foley.
I'm Father Robert Ballecer in for Leo Laporte
who is currently looking for the answers
to life, the universe and everything
acrossed the pond. Of course Paul Thurrott
is the guru behind Thurrott.com the
previewer of news, reviews and analyzes
for tech enthusiasts. Mary-Jo Foley the
mastermind behind ZDnet All About
Microsoft blog. Together their here to
bring a light to the deep cave of
Microsoft news, like a over charged light
bulb battery exploding in the darkness.
Paul, Mary-Jo so good to have ya.
(Mary-Jo laughs)
(Paul) It's like your introducing
Bond villains there.
(Mary-Jo) I know I was like Wow!
The masterminds.
(Paul) Master of Disaster Mary-Jo Foley.
(Father Ballecer) Do you have a cat?
and can you do this with your fingers?
- I think I need that on a business card.
If I still used business cards I would.
That is one of those strange things.
At these conventions that we go to these shows
we all do the business card thing and
I've even got down the whole Asian thing
of handing like this and a bit of a bow.
But, um, those collect dust afterwards,
I almost never use them.
- No, No! I don't even have one.
- I was going to say I think I have some,
but I've never brought them anywhere.
-Wait!, You two go to shows, don't you?
It's kind of a thing, it's how you say hello, right?
- uh
-Well now people just say, "where can
I find you?" and I just day "All About
Microsoft"
- Mary-Jo and I just bump our phones
together and say "Power twins activate."
(Mary-Jo laughs)
- No, I don't know every once in a while
someone will hand me a business cards
and I have a momentary bit of confusion,
like I don't have one of these things,
or I don't have it with me.
You know I feel, it's like a weird moment.
I feel like I need to give them something
in return, it's like someone comes over
with a gift and you don't have anything
to give them.
-Yeah, that's what it is. I know I'm handing
out cards like they are candy, but it's
just because I want to give you something.
It's like thank you very much for your time,
uh, here's something, and stop talking
to me now.
(laughing) yes, right!
(Paul) I've met the social obligation
(Father Ballencer) And if you actually want to see
where this is gonna be put up you can contact
ma at this other wise I'm just gonna assume
that you just don't care (Mary-Jo) Yep (laughter)
(Paul) I needed a resume for something,
you know, like a year ago or more, I. . .
Thurrott.com, what do you mean I...?
(laughing) I don't keep track of my
accomplishments, I'm not even sure what
I would do with that.
(Father Ballencer) Our Field producer,
Colene Goldstein, she's actually
really good LinkedIn. Before she hands over
her card, she'll just say can I find you on
LinkedIn and she's just building up this huge
network of all these people that she's connected
to and she says that's far more efficient
than trying to take a card and then remember
where it came from and who they
represented six weeks ago.
Because remember a lot of the people that
you meet don't actually work for that company
they work for a PR company that represents
the company that you are talking to. (Paul) Right.
and you won't remember who that is unless
you actually write it on the back of that card
and even then sometimes you don't remember
- I have to look at the lower third to remember
Mary-jo's name. (laughing) you know I'm
really not good at that kind of thing.
(Mary-Jo) He's bad at this thing.
(Fa. Ballencer) I have to look down here
If I don't see that?
(Paul) Hi! I'm Fr. Rob, What does that say?
(laughing) Sir Foley, no let's not do that.
I'll right let's get away from social convention
cuz we've got some pretty spectacular windows news
who's got this first one, because eventually
Microsoft has finally "oh! that's right we're not
offering the free version anymore, maybe we
should kill that nag screen"
Mary-Jo - Yeah I can start it off a bit. Um,
Yesterday, the 20th, Microsoft put out a
KB article that said "Hey we're finally going to
push through Windows update, an update
that takes away the Windows, get Windows 10 app.
So if you remember July 29th was the actual day
the offer to get a free Windows 10 ended.
And at that time they said it might take us
a little while to faze this out because we've
so thoroughly inundated everyone with this app
and the promotion. So actually the real
day when this ended at least when the app ended
was yesterday. And it's starting to roll
through the Windows update. It replaces
the get Windows 10 app and it goes away.
But the weird complication not complication
but the weird kind of coincidence is
you can actually still get Windows 10 as free upgrade
You just have to use your existing Windows 7
or 8.1 product key and you can still unlock the free
upgrade, which is something Microsoft is not
actively advertising, but Paul has been verifying it daily.
(Paul) well weekly
(Mary-Jo) I've been asking him is it still up
(Fa. Bellencer) Cuz, I was told that if you do
the get Windows 10 thing and then you roll it
back you're always set you can always re-download it
(Paul) Oh! yeah, yeah this is for new installs.
In other words you have never done this before
you have a key you can do a clean Windows 10
right now and it would still work.
(Fa. Bellencer) Wait! What? That's not how
it's suppose to work.
(Mary-jo) Yep (Paul) I know, and by the way
one day it won't, I mean maybe this weekend
or the weekend after that, someday, I'm gonna
wake up, I'm gonna test it and it's not gonna work
you know it's just.. It's going to happen eventually.
But, um, I wrote an article about this
not working probably a month ago in anticipation
of it not working and it's just kept working
the things been sitting here at my desktop since
August. (Fa Ballencer) So you just try and
do an update everyday just to make sure it still goes?
(Paul) not everyday and least once a week.
- Now does this
(Mary-Jo) Yesterday, I said to him can you
still do it? And he's like, Yep you can!
-So does this now increase the value of the
Windows 10 upgrade, because now you can't get
it except maybe if you know this super secret,
now do people actually want it?
(Paul) I.. No.. I suppose.. I think the issue
is.. Well if you wanted to save some money
I suppose you could go buy Windows 8.1
product key and you know, well you
wouldn't actually buy Windows 8.1
I should say, it's possibly you can buy a copy of it
somewhere cheaper because nobody wants it
anymore and than you could upgrade now for less money
than buying Windows 10. Or maybe you just
had keys for some reason, maybe a company that has
keys allotted or you bought the package version
at some point, maybe you bought the Windows 7
family pack back in the day and you only used
two of the three keys and you've got an extra
one sitting around for what ever reason.
If you have a key it will work. If you
got them from TechNet that will work.
um, and someday it won't. So, we'll see.
-Microsoft won't say when they think
it will no longer work in fact they aren't
really publicly saying that it still works
if you ask them, they just don't answer
when you ask about this.
And I assume it's the same thing that they said
about the get Window 10 app
that it might take some time for them
to shut it off. But the other theory is they
are just leaving it open for those laggers
who didn't get around to updating by July 29th
and they can say to them "You know what, psst
by the way."
- It doesn't hurt anybody, I think that's the
point that if they are people out there in the world
with Windows 7 install that they've never done
Microsoft would much rather see them be on
Windows 10, if they're going to do a new Windows
install. Why wouldn't they want that.
- I can also see this heading off a lot of
complaints from people who said "oh man
I tried to upgrade and I totally forgot and I
did it in August and it didn't work anymore"
No that's not actually a valid excuse.
You know September 21st, October 21st,
It's starting to get to the point where
you can't pretend you've been
procrastinating and than just forgot I mean,
You know at some point it's just. . .
Their just leaving it open, its fine.
I have no problem with this.
- This is actually a huge opportunity for us
because I know Alex has been trying to
update the Tri caster to Windows 10
(Paul) Actually Padre, Let me correct you
you shouldn't run Windows update on the
Tri caster, New Tech doesn't say you should
So I really hope that nothing. . .
Oh Crap! (Laughing)
- This is what happens, You get a nag screen
in the middle of Windows weekly
that's oddly blocking me out entirely,
that's different (Mary-Jo) It is
You know we're going to have to live with this
for the next 20 -30 minutes because
unfortunately, click the initiated and it'll
take that much time to install and
uninstall it. (Mary-Jo) They'll see us though
we're off to the sides. Not when you zoom
on us, but the big picture you can see us.
(Paul) How do I know that this graphic hasn't
been used more gleefully on Macbreak weekly
and whatever morning show I'm sure you do?
(Fa Ballencer) Uh, this weeks it's Google,
I think this is actually the new title card
for Floss Weekly. Um Floss Weekly will
never reserve your copy.
Do either of you still have Windows 7, 8 & 10
Machines in your environment?
(Mary-Jo) Yes, I have 7,
(Fa Ballencer) So no 10 at all?
(Mary-Jo) Yeah I have 10 and 7, but no 8
(Fa Ballencer) Really? I have 7, 8.1 and 10
(Mary-Jo) You have all of them.
(Fa Ballencer) Well because I mean 10
does still kill some of my USB devices
so my production machines have to stay 8
and I have one laptop and that just works
better at 7.
(Mary-Jo) I just have the desktop I still
use because it's just an older machine,
the Dell that I've had for awhile I just left
it on 7, cuz I'm like Eh, when I need to
replace the machine Ill just get
Windows 10 machine.
(Paul) But what about all those gotta have it
apps you can't run?
-Um?!
(Fa Ballencer) Now a quick question,
this really did hurt Microsoft's reputation,
right? I mean Yes, That number of how
many deployments they have of Windows 10
is forever going to be asterisk.
People said "Well how many of those were
accidental upgrades or how many of those
were installs and then rollbacks almost
immediately. This. . Will people forget this
or will Windows 10 upgrade nag screen
be the butt of jokes for the next two
decades. (Paul) Honestly I think they've
irreparably harmed their reputation with
this and not just Microsoft generally but
the reputation of Windows as well.
The forced upgrade thing was a huge mistake
on their part and a very risky gamble and
the recent people aren't going to forget
it is because they came out and said we're
going to hit a billion within two to three
years and then right before Windows the
windows ten free upgrade ended they said
you know what we're not going to make that
goal and so even though they did that they
were unable to you know meet this reasonable
goal, I thought, of reaching a billion
users in that timeframe.
- You know Mary Jo there's two ways to
look at this. There's one way and this would,
I think this is where Paul lines up, there
was an executive or some marketing person
who said you know what we want to hit a
billion because it sounds like a great number.
So let's just force this on people. The
other way to think of this is that some
engineers said you know what people
will like ten if they just try it if we just
get it on the machine they will understand
what all the hoopla is about.
Which of those do you fall with?
- So I also, like Paul, think this was a
big mistake and the part that really
kind of riled me the most was when
Microsoft was taking the tack of saying
it's for users own good that were doing
this and you know I was like wait this is
so paternalistic How can you say what's
for my good or my mother's good who
accidently got Windows ten and like flipped
out when she got it you know I just think
that argument didn't work. I'm happy. They
made a free upgrade available very easily
to people but I don't think they should
have rammed it down people's throat.
But it's also, I don’t know if it qualifies
as ironic but, You know one of the kind of
contracts you enter into with Microsoft
when you do install or get Windows 10 is
you're accepting a constant stream of
upgrades and you really can't do anything
as an individual to befriend that from
happening. Least not elegantly or easily
and your introduction to this new world is
Microsoft seamlessly and inelegantly
jamming Windows 10 down your throat
you know it's it's kind of a nasty preview
of what the future holds for you when you
do this and it's just the wrong first step
you know to resent, it was a terrible mistake
- Yeah and then the, you hiding of the way
that you would actually accept the upgrade
where people were closing the window.
That was really bad. That made like a bad
situation worse. So yeah not a good look.
- In writing about this topic today
I decided not to go back and hit on every
single little milestone in this because
frankly it's kind of depressing.
You know, when you go back to look at the
sheer amount of stuff that both of us I'm
sure have written about this get Windows 10
thing since last year and the various ways
they changed it silently some Windows
Update, or group of Windows Updates would
go out, some of them would prevent the
blockers from, you know or the un-blockers
I guess from you know working.
some of them would change the way the
dialog looked or worked. You know in the
past when you close the window, it would
just go away but at one point when you
close the window you silently have accepted
the upgrade and that's purposefully evil.
It's terrible.
-For me I think that hurt more than anything
else because I understand wanting to
force out the update. Especially since
they believe it's going to be much more
secure, it's going to be much more feature
rich. But the fact that they kept playing
cat and mouse with people who just didn't
want to be nagged anymore. That's the
reputation strike it's like ok if I went to
the trouble of removing that nag screen
then obviously I'm a savvy user if I can
do that. So the fact that you're trying to
work around what I did. Now I feel as if
we're playing Microsoft nanny state.
-Right -Yeah, yeah
A lot of times you know they keep saying
you know what, we're letting people get
around it, if they go in and edit the
registry settings. I'm like, wait a second
hold on, that's not something most people
should do. In fact, probably very few
should do it. And so when that was
like “Hey were give you an alternative
to get out of it. I was like uh, that's
not a good option.
-That's not an alternative.
–No
- I mean the funny thing they get looking
back over a year of articles for this topic.
What I reminded myself of was in late June
one month before the free offer ended.
They finally added something to that
box that said I don't want this please
stop asking me. It took them eleven of
the twelve months to get to that point.
That's how it should have been on day one.
You know it's just uh, you just can't
recover from this. We don't know, we may
never know the psychological impact that
had on what may or may not have been
very good to Microsoft customers that day,
who upon looking for a new computer at
some time in the future may decide they
need, they are going to get a pro book
instead or a mac book or well probably not
a Linux computer that's crazy. But you know
what I'm saying. That they're going to look
at an iPad even or something, whatever.
And just make that decision because they
don't want to be harassed which is a
completely reasonable request. You know.
-Let's close the book on this bad chapter.
–Yeah, yeah I think so.
It's not a mulligan but it's since you say
OK you know what, you kind of hit some
of the numbers you wanted not the big one
but now actually show us that our faith in
you is not misplaced. But to be fair, we
could look at other companies in the
industry, like Google that are doing the
same sort of strong arm tactics.
Google right now is making a big push for
HTTPS, they want everything to be encypted
end to end on the internet, that's a good
goal, but some people feel that their
approach is heavy handed. Now, the new
updates to Chrome are going to automatically
mark any site that doesn't have HTTPS built
into it as insecure so that little icon is
going to pop up, warning people that maybe
they shouldn't visit the site. People think
that's heavy handed, but those looking at
it say, "well this is ultimately going to
lead to a better internet." you could make
the same call here. You could say "Look,
this was heavy handed, this was
Microsoft being the worst of the nannies,
but a more secure OS ultimately is a
better experience."
-All of the goals that Microsoft had for
this were valid right. Even the self-serving
ones you know, the notion that we would
all be better off if more of us run the
very latest version of the O. S. and were
always updated to be on that version would
make us all more secure because it's less
work for Microsoft to do to fix the problems
you know, are going to occur down the road
Everyone benefits from that there's no. .
you can't really dispute it. But the
problem is when they say oh good, everyone
agrees? Good! Now you're all getting the
new upgrade is like whoa whoa hold on a
second, you know, you mention for example
that you have U.S.B. devices that don't
work on Windows 10. I'm sure anyone.
listening to this has some examples of
some things whatever might be, uh…
that don't work you know or some reason
whatever it may be that they couldn't
upgrade. I mean you can't. . . I don't
believe you can I mean they tried you can't
really just jam this kind of thing down
people's throats.
-And for our few fruit flans in the chat room
right now. Why is it that Microsoft trying
to force Windows 10 on people was a
boondoggle. Whereas another company's
decision to remove a standard port was brave?
(Mary-Jo laughs) Courage
(Paul) Good marketing.
(Fa. Ballencer) Maybe this was just
Microsoft’s courage, and we’re all just
misunderstanding it.
-Uhm –Ok (Laughter) -Well OK
(Paul) It was courageous of them to attempt.
(Fa. Ballencer) It was, it was. Although
I will say something I really don't like
is the fact that they've disabled something
from 8 because if you do Windows stacked
side by side it's pretty seamless but if
you do one on top of the other there's
always a hard break as you move between
screens. In 8 you used to be able to
disable that sticky window, you just move
right through it. You can do the same
registry edit in 10 but it doesn't fix it.
That never goes away and that's why I
don't understand that, Go figure. All right.
When we come back. We need to talk about
something a bit more cheery because we've
we've been hammering on Microsoft so rather
than talking about a forced Windows 10 update
I think maybe we should talk about some
Layoffs -Yeah. (laughter) -Oh boy!
–Yay let’s get pumped. But first let's go
ahead and take a moment to thank the first
sponsor of this episode of Windows weekly.
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OK this is one of these stories that it
almost feels as if a continuation of stories
that we've already covered but who
wants to talk about the bad news for
pink slips over at Microsoft.
(Mary-Jo) Oh wait, can we talk about the Skype thing first.
(Fa Bellencer) OK sure. OK You know
what that's hold off on the super awesome
(Mary-Jo) I mean it's related but we can
we could kind of mix it up a little.
-The people getting pink slips got them over Skype. (laughter)
(Mary-Jo) That would have been interesting
(Paul) Which explains why some of them
have been home. Some of them got it seventeen times. (laughing)
(Mary-Jo) Burn, burn (Fa Bellencer) ok Skype, let’s do Skype.
-Ok so this um, Paul should the S.M.S. relate because you, I think you've
actually looked at it, right?
-No, well not exactly, so, Err, how do I explain this,
but earlier this year Microsoft announced a feature that was going to come
in the Windows 10 anniversary update called messaging everywhere
and the idea is that you have a Windows Phone or an Android phone
and you can use your computer to send text messages and receive text messages
right like you can do in a Mac if you have an iPhone as well.
And everyone was really excited about it, some insiders started testing it
and then very late in the game they said you know what.
Actually we're not going to put this in Windows ten.
This makes more sense for Skype we'll put it in the Skype preview app
but sometime later in the year they yanked it out of Windows 10
some people were disappointed you know because they were using it
but you know I think we can agree that a messaging feature makes more sense for
Microsoft's messaging solution than it does for Windows specifically so
it's going to be part of Skype. So in the most recent Windows insider build
which was released last week I think Microsoft's added this feature in for
the first time and now they're calling it S.M.S. relay actually been calling
about for some time but it's a slightly more technical and less interesting name
and the functionality is supposed to work the same way in this initial version
however you need to have the latest fast ring version of Windows 10 from
windows insiders. I think 14 9 23 or something like that. And you also need
to have that same build on Windows 10 mobile it only works on those two systems
so I have both of these things but I couldn't get it.
I'm not seeing it on my phone I don't know why.
but the idea again is that you can from the Skype preview app on Windows 10
for P.C.'s send and receive text messages and so if your phone is over the corner
charging somebody sends you a text message you get a notification on your P.C.
click on it you can reply to it right there. It sends out over your phone
as you would expect so it's coming. And it will come as part of Skype, right?
so we won't have to wait for the next major version of Windows 10 to get it.
Which by the way is another one of the advantages of putting it on Skype.
-You know what's weird though I think I messaged you about this that I have an
Android phone. I have a Windows 10 P.C. and I am seeing my text messages
from my phone show up on my Windows 10 P.C. and I'm not on
the insider program right! –Which is really interesting.
-Yeah, So I think it's because of Cortana though because I have Cortana on both
and I believe that also gives you some of that functionality but that then
I'm like OK So is this in the future going to be taken out of Cortana?
-Yes so, right. Actually it's kind of confusing because this is hum,
I wrote a book about Windows 10 that I'm still updating for the anniversary update
and one of the things I put off literally to the very end that I will wrote right
in the last of all the new content is phone integration because it's actually a
little convoluted there are three ways right now that you can get information
back and forth from your phone through Windows 10 as I understand it. One is this
new S.M.S. relay feature in the Skype preview. One is the thing you're seeing
which is the Cortana integration but there's also like a Windows phone
integration I will get Windows Phone notifications in Action Center on
Windows 10that are notifications that came from Windows 10 in the phone and so
they could be about anything it will be like Facebook updates.
You know different things from different apps on the phone and those things will
actually surface in Windows 10 of my P.C. as well. So I'm still trying to kind of..
where and how all these things happen and why you know it's interesting I have
three different phones, so I have and Android phone like you do and I have the
Windows Phone and also an iPhone So the iPhone doesn't really do anything
but the expectation is that you'll have a pretty decent level of functionality
through Android if you have Windows 10 and then obviously if you have
Windows 10 mobile you would have the best experience
because those two things would be tightly integrated.
-You know that's something in a feature I actually would really like
something in Windows that shows me how the various services integrate because
it's always an crapshoot for me about what notifications I get on what devices like
you I've got I.O.'s devices I've got Windows devices I've got Android I think
Windows Mobile and it always, I’m never really sure what is syncing and what's not
-It's like a roulette wheel and I just was speaking Skype specifically, this morning
I was chatting with Brad on Skype & we're you know we're texting back and forth
he writes, I write you know five minutes goes by, 15 minutes and all of a sudden
one of my three phones in this case it was my iPhone the screen lights up and
I look over and it's a Skype notification of something. Brad had written me on Skype
about two minutes earlier. And so for some reason that one version of the app
on that one phone lit up. It was like all my devices or weight are in the back and
one of those are like I got it. I got it,
and it just kind of like I'm having an active conversation in Skype on Windows.
You know why? Why would these other things? You know how it is, if I go to my
Android phone and I turn them on right now and I go into Skype. You know thus
waking it up which is a mistake. It's like Jason from Friday the 13th or something
but if I do wake it up briefly it will flash those one two three conversations
that are marked unread the conversations I had earlier with Brad actually this one
from Twit and the conversations I had with Mary Jo according to this version of
the app these conversations are unread.
-I know, that happens to me too. Yet when I when I've had my Windows 10
laptop off for a while I turn on you know they all the messages filtered through
but then some show up as unread and some show up as read.
-Yep.
-So I'm not sure what makes both of those things happen.
-Yeah I ended up going into Windows 10 notification I just turning off everything
because I was so tired of receiving the same notifications 15 times
-Yep
-Actually there's something else that I do love the syncing across accounts
that actually does work nicely except for the fact that at home. I've got this
monster set up with two 4K. monitors and a bunch of little monitors around the
periphery and it tries to import those preferences into my laptop and it doesn't
matter how many times I tell it not to do that it. There's always an update in the,
the switch gets turned back on & suddenly all the text on my laptop is tiny.
Because it's adjusting with what it thinks I want to the desktop, which that's again
I want some sort of central control panel that shows all my devices and which
settings are moving between which devices. It sounds like that's an absolute
necessity now with all the different devices that we use. And with all the
syncing that Microsoft trying to build into the products. That's a necessity.
-Yeah you know obviously Microsoft doesn't have a big presence slash
any presence in Mobile and so one of the concerns that they have that maybe Apple
doesn't have and Google only has to a lesser extent say with IOS Devices is the
cross-platform stuff you know Bart W on Twitter's ask Mary-Jo and I if S.M.S.
relay is coming to the Skype apps on IOS and Android as
well and it's a reasonable expectation that it would but
you know of course on Android you have a Microsoft has a
much easier way of getting into the system and making
this more seamless whereas in IOS, if you think about how
Cortana works you kind of have to go in and run the app
for some things to happen. You know it's never going to be as. .
even though it can you know, it can sort of run in the background a little bit
you can never be sure that it will always be there. This is more easily done on
Android and Windows Phone So if you… Mary-Jo do you know off the top you head
has Microsoft ever spoke to S.M.S relay on IOS Android?
-I don't remember them saying that.
–It seems like it would have to the right?
(Mary-Jo) I know it does seemed like it
would have to
-What would be the point of S.M.S relay
to Windows 10 mobile?
-Right.
- Mary Jo I've got an enterprise question
for you. Do we know how many versions of
messaging Windows has.. uh Microsoft has
because you've got Skype. You've got
Skype for business. You've got Skype for
broadcast and then you've got the link
stuff which was actually supposed to take
over for the Skype stuff but then that
seems to be flipped. Now that we've got the Dela
do you see what's in the strategy going
forward or we just keep getting fractured
off into different types of Skype and do they still have
that artificial delineation between consumer and enterprise?
-They do. They still have the delineation
there is still Skype consumer and Skype
for business are not the same product
even though they're both called Skype and you're right. Link is still kind of
hanging around for some on promise the
stuff but ultimately Link, the Link name
will totally go away and link will be
completely superseded by Skype for business that will happen.
-Because that was going the other way. I mean Skype was going to go to go away and
they were going to keep Link and so now they've reversed on that.
- Yes So I think they're being pretty
consistent on length being supplanted by Skype for business.
-OK.
-I think next week which is Microsoft
ignite we might hear some new things
about Skype for business and kind of
where that's going because every time we
ask Microsoft about Skype they'll answer
Skype consumer questions but they won't
talk at all about Skype for business. And
I think next week's show because it's a
very I T pro focus show we probably will
hear some new things about Skype for
business and hopefully about how it's
going to be syncing soon with OneDrive
and OneDrive for business. That's
something people are really waiting
anxiously for and last we heard that was
going to happen in the final calendar
quarter of this year. So we're almost in the final calendar quarter.
Seems like we should get some new News on that next week.
- Wait Skype for business will sync with OneDrive?
-With OneDrive for business, yes!
-How does that.. Wait what is it syncing?
- They’ll be integration. Sorry. Am I saying OneDrive business or
am I thinking Share Point. I’m thinking about Share Point.
-OK, OK that makes sense
-Sorry I'm thinking about Share Point
when I'm saying OneDrive for business but
um, it may, Microsoft talked about Share Point and OneDrive business being able to
actually have better sync across those
two products and they said that was going
to counter Q four and I think that's what
we might hear about next week. But yeah
you know every time we ask about Skype.
You know we've heard recently that Skype
is moving to this new kind of universal
next generation client and when I asked
Microsoft you know does that also mean
Skype for businesses is going to be on
that same universal client.
They said we're not really talking about Skype for Business.
-You're like whoa.
-Don't get ahead of yourself here.
- And don't forget the upcoming Skype for
Web R.T.C. because I mean that's also
another universal client and universal, universal.
-But we should talk about this thing that
surfaced this week called Skype for life. Speaking of .
-Oh good I was just hoping we would have another Skype.
- Speaking of Jason from Friday the 13th. (laughing)
-OK what is Skype For Life?
-OK So ARS Technica Dr Pizza over there
got a tip from one of his sources or
maybe multiple sources that Microsoft was
working on a product called Skype For Life and he and a lot of us have first
kind of thought maybe this was a name for
the universal Skype client that would
work across all different platforms that
would be kind of like what Microsoft has
described as the universal Windows
platform equivalent but for the other
platforms like IOS and Android. But then
Paul dug around a little and thought it
through and he says no but that is not what that it is.
-No! No I mean I talked
to Peter about it., Skype, Ironically.
And I don't doubt that he was told this
and I don't doubt that the person who
told him saw this and thought that they
understood what they were seeing but you
know I talked to the Skype guys back in
June or July about the strategy Mary Jo
just discussed where they're moving to a
new generation clients they have updated
their back end infrastructure they
temporarily have to maintain the old
P.D.P. infrastructure for certain
applications or services but that's going
to be going away. The combination of
these two back end services explains the
Skype reliability issues that we've all
seen over the past you know several
months I was told. And I thought you
know, Skype For Life and making yet again
new, some new client that would somehow
run across all those platforms didn't
make any sense to me and if you look at
that next to their previously stated
strategy it's clear to me that Skype For
Life is just a marketing term and what
they're describing internally I think is
the culmination of that previous existing
strategy that the new infrastructures
switched over to their new clients are
all available. They all interact and all
have the new features and it's not that
it's one client's I mean obviously
Windows will have P.W.P. clients, IOS and
Android will have native apps there,
Linux will have what they have and there
will be the web version as well. And
these things will have some baseline of
functionality that works across all of
them on this new infrastructure that's the point of it.
-You know what I'm going to still be a
doubter here. OK I don't think, I think
the more I think about this the more I
think you're right that it isn't a new
totally new Skype client. I think that
would just be crazy and kind of going
back to what they just got away from but
I think Skype For Life is something else
and the reason I'm thinking that it's a
marketing slogan but, maybe it's
something like you know they call Skype
translator a feature of Skype like that.
That's how they brand that and Skype for
teams which is what they're going to be
doing to compete with Slack. I also think
they'll call that a feature of Skype. I
don't think they'll call of a new version
of Skype. So I'm thinking Skype For Life
might be something like using Skype to
improve your life in some way. So maybe
it's like I don't know I'm just I'm
totally reaching here but Skype like
maybe Skype and the Microsoft Health
platforms somehow connected or you know
Skype being used for some specific thing
that's more about health and welfare and
maybe a very specific almost like a
vertical I'm just guessing here again but
I think it's something else.
-I mean that seems very far reaching. It
might be simpler that you know it's funny
we were just kind of joking around and
slash complaining about how you know
Skype will ring on various devices and
whatever because we have various devices
because we're nerds and so Skype For Life
could be as simple as what I think of a
Skype everywhere this this feature you
know that a normal person with a computer
and a phone or a tablet and a phone would
want to get messages everywhere and
that's the For Life. In other words.
Whatever your life is whatever your
habits are whatever devices you choose to use Skype will be there. You know.
-That could be
-I just you know regardless of what it is
I mean I think it's mostly a marketing
term. Right. Not so much a product. And
it's almost just a way to describe functionality to normal people.
-I'd be down with the marketing term. I spoke with a rep a Microsoft rep over at
IFA in Berlin last month and or no this
month and of course didn't want to talk
about it but what he was describing was
that this is Skype UC this is the unified
communication promised the idea of we
don't want Skype to be an app. It
shouldn't be something you start up it
should be something that is just
everywhere. They're using Microsoft
products. You should be able to say
Cortana call Paul Thurrott and it will
automatically kick out Skype and it
doesn't even call a Skype it just
connects. Hum, and I can see that I mean
that UC promises has been something
that's been around for ten years maybe
this is Microsoft finally saying let's do.
- Or saying we finally have enough pieces
in place for it makes sense right. I mean
even the things like integrating Skype
into Outlook.com and OneDrive.com on the
web or the Outlook 2016 Mail clients in
office 2016 which you know depending on
your view of things you might find
incredibly useful or incredibly annoying
because it certainly on the web, they
don't do a good job with that but
I think that these things are all part of
… how do you describe a bunch of little
things? It's a.. what's the theme? You
know universal communications is how we
would say it in the enterprise and maybe
Skype For Life is how they want to say it to people.
-You know what Padre just gave me a crazy idea another crazy idea.
-Oh good
-What if Skype For Life is a bot?
-Oh
-Now they’re intergrading more bots into
Skype right and there's been all this
talk about a concierge bot that Bing was
working on for a while to be kind of like
your personal assistant for a life. You
know somebody who you could say hey what
movies are playing can you get me some
tickets. Maybe this is Skype For Life?
-But then Skype for life would have to fight Cortana to the death.
-I know. Yeah. BOTS and Cortana they...
I think they're siblings I think they're friends but yeah
-Their twins, Skype For Life is the twin
they kept in the closet until he was a
teenager so he’s a little stunted.
We've actually got people in the chat
room, we've got ‘hey it's Todd’ who
suggested that Skype For Life is actually
the name of a new form of judicial
punishment and then you see the really
really bad, you only get to use Skype (Laughing)
-It sounds like a big punishment.
-And a guy could be like oh I’ve been Skyped.
-Should it just be Skype 10? I mean,
cause that was the whole idea of Windows 10. It is the last Windows you will ever
own is this Skype 10 is it like look it will always be this way.
-And what you're supposed to do
everything to ensure it. That’s windows. God bless
-The ultimate Skype.
-Honestly Windows 10 is a terrible name
right. That should have just been Windows
I don't think we need to go 10 I think if
anything we should be stripping the
numbers off of the products that still have numbers.
-Maybe they really want it to be Windows X.
-Apple's doing that right? Apple's changing back
-They've kind of moved to the right
because they still have version numbers
obviously you have to have the stuff
behind the scenes but you know they talk
about the new version MacOS as Sierra.
You know and they've been doing that for
years. I guess but they really they
emphasize that you know it's a friendly
name and I think that's a nicer approach
than some godly book like H.P. product
names or version or just not version
numbers because numbers or even using the
version number the name is just it's just
it's I think that's just old fashioned
-Yeah
-Yeah it's kind of I mean because you have to…
-I know especially if its the last right
last version of something, supposedly
-It should have just been Windows ultimate,
Oh wait, we've already used that. Never mind!
-Calling something the last version of
this product is like the worst way to
market something ever invented. You know
this is the last version we're ever going
to make a Windows. Oh know we’re gonna
keep updating it, but this is the last one.
–There’ll be some serious updates to it but no, this is it.
-So it really is just not smart mart. (Sigh) I'm going to be…
I'm going to change my name to Padre 10. I will be the last Padre, you’ll ever know
-Actually if you can change it to 10.01.
-There'll be updates to Padre, but this is really the final version.
(Paul) There will always be that little hidden miss.
(Mary-Jo) Padre Hena-versary.
-Don't we… the Padre anniversary edition.
It's ten pounds lighter but has all the features. (laughing)
All right, we're going to bog down a bit
too much and it is a fun story, but there
is one more story that has so much fun it
has to be dispelled. Paul. There were
people screaming all over the Internet
that Microsoft is being the big bad by
trying to lock Linux out of new P.C.'s Is this true?
–No! And that's all we need to say about
that. If I could somehow make a career
out of just debunking stupidity. Right. I mean I just… you get into these
conversations of people on Twitter who
see these stories and they.. I think it's
the way conspiracy theories work right.
It's.. it hits on your internal beliefs
and so you instantly throw common sense
to the wind and say oh course their doing
this. Microsoft is evil. It's like guys
it's not 1998 anymore it could be maybe
upgrade the way we think about Microsoft
and their relationship with Linux in
particular. The topic and if you don't
know what it is I guess we should
probably step back a second and say that
somebody had discovered that a Lenovo
P.C. bought from the Microsoft store so
it's a signature P.C. and thus is running
something called Windows 10 signature
edition which doesn't exist. Somehow has
the magic capability of preventing Linux
from ever being installed in that
computer. That's not a capability of an
operating system that’s something that
would have to be built into the firmware
I guess of the computer I mean I
obviously there's always going to be some
way to brute stall anything on there but
you know, read it happens. There’s one of
the guys from ZD Net wrote a very calm
and collected article but anyway I
appreciated that. But here's the thing,
signature P.C. is as I describe it.
I think the smallest province of the
windows empire that exists in Microsoft.
They have no power at all the very notion
that they could require a P.C. maker to
do anything is ludicrous. Let alone the
world's number one P.C. maker. Microsoft
is not the business of blocking Linux.
They never really were. But it's one of
those things like a lot of people kind of
like want to believe is the case. Some
guy supposedly from Lenovo got into a
support forum somewhere and said Yeah.
This might this is part of our agreement
with Microsoft. That's not true. By the
way because Lenovo came out with a
statement and said no that's not what's
happening. It's one of those things like
you don't actually have to know the
answer to know the answer. It's a little
bit like the Skype For Life thing like if
you think it through. It's like this is
not what's happening and so I ... I'm not
the one that got the statement so I think
it's Tech Republic. They've got the
statement but I did a write up about it and uh debating it…
-This is just secure boot on the UEFI right?. I mean that's all it is.
-It's not exactly but it's that exact
kind of topic yes but Lenovo has a one
of, it's probably just one Lenovo
computer actually but there is a Lenovo
computer that has a very strange raid
S.S.D. configuration and as people are
discovering if they try to clean install
Windows 10 on that computer it won't work
either. It's. It's a very unique
configuration. It's not part of a secret
cabal with Microsoft to screw Linux users
out of their new computer but you know I
think I said this to Mary Jo privately or
maybe Brad we were I was chatting with
somebody earlier today and so consider
the market out there for people who are
going to buy a Windows based computer and
install Linux on it right and there is
some number it's a small number but the
some group of people do that. And now
let's consider the subset of those people
who are going to drive to a Microsoft
store pick it lovingly pick out their…
you know favorite signature P.C.
configuration from the store, buy it from
Microsoft. You know their favorite
company. And then put Linux on it. I mean
like I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm
not saying it's not going to happen but
c'mon. I mean and this is Microsoft's.
Path to world domination we're going to
do it through the signature pieces that
nobody even knows exists at the stores
and you can't even find there where you
live. It's just the whole thing is loaded
it's just typical. Watching this cascade
across the Internet today. It's just as
depressing. That's just so typical. You
know it destroys your faith in humanity
or reconfirms my belief that we're all idiots. I mean it's just it's sad.
-And he thought Lenovo did show. I mean I
can't remember what they call it it's
like software services but then on boot
up you actually get the option of what
packages you want to install. So you could make it a signature…
-You mean..?
-All the crapware.
-That’s interesting. So Lenovo not the
only P.C. makers starting to do that kind
of a thing and I really like this
approach it's because it's something P.C.
makers are not familiar with called customer centricity.
You know H.P.’s newer machines will do
the same thing and in the past you get a
bunch of utilities and things running in
the tray and whatever was. Now you have
to seek out those applications and at the
time that you run it. It says hey we have
this tray thing we can put it and you
want to use it and if you say no that's
in the end of it you know and that's the
way things should be you know don't you think. Yeah so.
-Well it sure beats me having to spend the
first thirty minutes of my new P.C.’s life
uninstalling everything that came pre-installed.
-Yes right. Actually we will never be
deemed intelligent beings by future
civilizations because of things like this.
It's like when you buy an electronic
device and spend the first thirty minutes
updating the software or when you buy a
smartphone and you install apps and you
spend the next seven days removing or
changing notifications or like what you