1 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's time for Windows weekly with 2 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Paul Thurrott and Mary-Jo Foley. 3 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Microsoft wants you for life, 4 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and their ready to kill the next screen. 5 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Paul is excited for the new Xbox and 6 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Mary-Jo talks about Microsoft's 7 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 bad cloud day. Window's Weekly is next. 8 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Pulse wave sounds) 9 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 This is Twit 10 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Bandwidth for Windows Weekly is provided 11 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 by CacheFly at cachefly.com 12 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 This is Window's Weekly with Paul Thurrott 13 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and Mary-Jo Foley. Episode 484, recorded 14 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 September 21, 2016 Microsoft for life! 15 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Window's Weekly is literately brought to 16 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you by Sonic, with 10 gig fiber internet 17 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 service provider. Join Sonic's internet 18 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 revolution as they bring fast affordable 19 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 internet phone and TV to homes and businesses 20 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 all over California. Visit www.sonic.com/twit 21 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to sign up for services and receive your 22 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 first month free. 23 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And by Audible.com to download a free 24 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 audio book of your choice go to 25 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 www.audible.com/windows 26 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And by Rocket Mortgage by Quicken Loans 27 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Rocket Mortgage brings the mortgage process 28 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 into the 21st century with a fast, easy 29 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and completely online process. 30 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Check out Rocket Mortgage today at 31 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 www.quickenloans.com/windows 32 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's time for Windows weekly with Paul Thurrott and Mary-Jo Foley. 33 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm Father Robert Ballecer in for Leo Laporte 34 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 who is currently looking for the answers 35 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to life, the universe and everything 36 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 acrossed the pond. Of course Paul Thurrott 37 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is the guru behind Thurrott.com the 38 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 previewer of news, reviews and analyzes 39 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for tech enthusiasts. Mary-Jo Foley the 40 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 mastermind behind ZDnet All About 41 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Microsoft blog. Together their here to 42 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 bring a light to the deep cave of 43 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Microsoft news, like a over charged light 44 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 bulb battery exploding in the darkness. 45 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Paul, Mary-Jo so good to have ya. 46 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo laughs) 47 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) It's like your introducing 48 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Bond villains there. 49 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo) I know I was like Wow! 50 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The masterminds. 51 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) Master of Disaster Mary-Jo Foley. 52 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Father Ballecer) Do you have a cat? 53 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and can you do this with your fingers? 54 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - I think I need that on a business card. 55 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If I still used business cards I would. 56 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That is one of those strange things. 57 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 At these conventions that we go to these shows 58 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we all do the business card thing and 59 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I've even got down the whole Asian thing 60 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of handing like this and a bit of a bow. 61 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But, um, those collect dust afterwards, 62 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I almost never use them. 63 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - No, No! I don't even have one. 64 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - I was going to say I think I have some, 65 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but I've never brought them anywhere. 66 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Wait!, You two go to shows, don't you? 67 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's kind of a thing, it's how you say hello, right? 68 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - uh 69 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Well now people just say, "where can 70 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I find you?" and I just day "All About 71 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Microsoft" 72 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - Mary-Jo and I just bump our phones 73 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 together and say "Power twins activate." 74 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo laughs) 75 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - No, I don't know every once in a while 76 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 someone will hand me a business cards 77 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I have a momentary bit of confusion, 78 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 like I don't have one of these things, 79 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or I don't have it with me. 80 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know I feel, it's like a weird moment. 81 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I feel like I need to give them something 82 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in return, it's like someone comes over 83 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 with a gift and you don't have anything 84 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to give them. 85 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Yeah, that's what it is. I know I'm handing 86 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 out cards like they are candy, but it's 87 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 just because I want to give you something. 88 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's like thank you very much for your time, 89 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 uh, here's something, and stop talking 90 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to me now. 91 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (laughing) yes, right! 92 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) I've met the social obligation 93 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Father Ballencer) And if you actually want to see 94 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 where this is gonna be put up you can contact 95 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 ma at this other wise I'm just gonna assume 96 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that you just don't care (Mary-Jo) Yep (laughter) 97 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) I needed a resume for something, 98 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know, like a year ago or more, I. . . 99 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Thurrott.com, what do you mean I...? 100 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (laughing) I don't keep track of my 101 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 accomplishments, I'm not even sure what 102 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I would do with that. 103 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Father Ballencer) Our Field producer, 104 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Colene Goldstein, she's actually 105 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 really good LinkedIn. Before she hands over 106 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 her card, she'll just say can I find you on 107 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 LinkedIn and she's just building up this huge 108 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 network of all these people that she's connected 109 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to and she says that's far more efficient 110 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 than trying to take a card and then remember 111 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 where it came from and who they 112 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 represented six weeks ago. 113 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Because remember a lot of the people that 114 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you meet don't actually work for that company 115 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they work for a PR company that represents 116 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the company that you are talking to. (Paul) Right. 117 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and you won't remember who that is unless 118 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you actually write it on the back of that card 119 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and even then sometimes you don't remember 120 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - I have to look at the lower third to remember 121 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Mary-jo's name. (laughing) you know I'm 122 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 really not good at that kind of thing. 123 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo) He's bad at this thing. 124 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Fa. Ballencer) I have to look down here 125 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If I don't see that? 126 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) Hi! I'm Fr. Rob, What does that say? 127 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (laughing) Sir Foley, no let's not do that. 128 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'll right let's get away from social convention 129 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 cuz we've got some pretty spectacular windows news 130 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 who's got this first one, because eventually 131 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Microsoft has finally "oh! that's right we're not 132 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 offering the free version anymore, maybe we 133 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 should kill that nag screen" 134 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Mary-Jo - Yeah I can start it off a bit. Um, 135 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yesterday, the 20th, Microsoft put out a 136 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 KB article that said "Hey we're finally going to 137 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 push through Windows update, an update 138 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that takes away the Windows, get Windows 10 app. 139 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So if you remember July 29th was the actual day 140 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the offer to get a free Windows 10 ended. 141 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And at that time they said it might take us 142 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 a little while to faze this out because we've 143 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so thoroughly inundated everyone with this app 144 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and the promotion. So actually the real 145 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 day when this ended at least when the app ended 146 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 was yesterday. And it's starting to roll 147 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 through the Windows update. It replaces 148 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the get Windows 10 app and it goes away. 149 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But the weird complication not complication 150 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but the weird kind of coincidence is 151 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you can actually still get Windows 10 as free upgrade 152 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You just have to use your existing Windows 7 153 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or 8.1 product key and you can still unlock the free 154 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 upgrade, which is something Microsoft is not 155 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 actively advertising, but Paul has been verifying it daily. 156 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) well weekly 157 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo) I've been asking him is it still up 158 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Fa. Bellencer) Cuz, I was told that if you do 159 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the get Windows 10 thing and then you roll it 160 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 back you're always set you can always re-download it 161 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) Oh! yeah, yeah this is for new installs. 162 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 In other words you have never done this before 163 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you have a key you can do a clean Windows 10 164 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 right now and it would still work. 165 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Fa. Bellencer) Wait! What? That's not how 166 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's suppose to work. 167 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-jo) Yep (Paul) I know, and by the way 168 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 one day it won't, I mean maybe this weekend 169 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or the weekend after that, someday, I'm gonna 170 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 wake up, I'm gonna test it and it's not gonna work 171 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know it's just.. It's going to happen eventually. 172 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But, um, I wrote an article about this 173 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 not working probably a month ago in anticipation 174 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of it not working and it's just kept working 175 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the things been sitting here at my desktop since 176 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 August. (Fa Ballencer) So you just try and 177 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 do an update everyday just to make sure it still goes? 178 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) not everyday and least once a week. 179 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - Now does this 180 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo) Yesterday, I said to him can you 181 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 still do it? And he's like, Yep you can! 182 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -So does this now increase the value of the 183 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Windows 10 upgrade, because now you can't get 184 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it except maybe if you know this super secret, 185 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 now do people actually want it? 186 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) I.. No.. I suppose.. I think the issue 187 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is.. Well if you wanted to save some money 188 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I suppose you could go buy Windows 8.1 189 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 product key and you know, well you 190 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 wouldn't actually buy Windows 8.1 191 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I should say, it's possibly you can buy a copy of it 192 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 somewhere cheaper because nobody wants it 193 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 anymore and than you could upgrade now for less money 194 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 than buying Windows 10. Or maybe you just 195 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 had keys for some reason, maybe a company that has 196 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 keys allotted or you bought the package version 197 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 at some point, maybe you bought the Windows 7 198 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 family pack back in the day and you only used 199 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 two of the three keys and you've got an extra 200 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 one sitting around for what ever reason. 201 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If you have a key it will work. If you 202 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 got them from TechNet that will work. 203 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 um, and someday it won't. So, we'll see. 204 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Microsoft won't say when they think 205 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it will no longer work in fact they aren't 206 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 really publicly saying that it still works 207 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 if you ask them, they just don't answer 208 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when you ask about this. 209 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I assume it's the same thing that they said 210 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about the get Window 10 app 211 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that it might take some time for them 212 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to shut it off. But the other theory is they 213 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are just leaving it open for those laggers 214 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 who didn't get around to updating by July 29th 215 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and they can say to them "You know what, psst 216 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 by the way." 217 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - It doesn't hurt anybody, I think that's the 218 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 point that if they are people out there in the world 219 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 with Windows 7 install that they've never done 220 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Microsoft would much rather see them be on 221 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Windows 10, if they're going to do a new Windows 222 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 install. Why wouldn't they want that. 223 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - I can also see this heading off a lot of 224 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 complaints from people who said "oh man 225 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I tried to upgrade and I totally forgot and I 226 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 did it in August and it didn't work anymore" 227 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 No that's not actually a valid excuse. 228 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know September 21st, October 21st, 229 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's starting to get to the point where 230 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you can't pretend you've been 231 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 procrastinating and than just forgot I mean, 232 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know at some point it's just. . . 233 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Their just leaving it open, its fine. 234 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I have no problem with this. 235 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - This is actually a huge opportunity for us 236 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because I know Alex has been trying to 237 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 update the Tri caster to Windows 10 238 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) Actually Padre, Let me correct you 239 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you shouldn't run Windows update on the 240 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Tri caster, New Tech doesn't say you should 241 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So I really hope that nothing. . . 242 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Oh Crap! (Laughing) 243 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - This is what happens, You get a nag screen 244 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in the middle of Windows weekly 245 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that's oddly blocking me out entirely, 246 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that's different (Mary-Jo) It is 247 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know we're going to have to live with this 248 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for the next 20 -30 minutes because 249 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 unfortunately, click the initiated and it'll 250 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 take that much time to install and 251 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 uninstall it. (Mary-Jo) They'll see us though 252 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we're off to the sides. Not when you zoom 253 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 on us, but the big picture you can see us. 254 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) How do I know that this graphic hasn't 255 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 been used more gleefully on Macbreak weekly 256 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and whatever morning show I'm sure you do? 257 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Fa Ballencer) Uh, this weeks it's Google, 258 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think this is actually the new title card 259 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for Floss Weekly. Um Floss Weekly will 260 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 never reserve your copy. 261 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Do either of you still have Windows 7, 8 & 10 262 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Machines in your environment? 263 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo) Yes, I have 7, 264 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Fa Ballencer) So no 10 at all? 265 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo) Yeah I have 10 and 7, but no 8 266 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Fa Ballencer) Really? I have 7, 8.1 and 10 267 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo) You have all of them. 268 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Fa Ballencer) Well because I mean 10 269 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 does still kill some of my USB devices 270 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so my production machines have to stay 8 271 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I have one laptop and that just works 272 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 better at 7. 273 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo) I just have the desktop I still 274 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 use because it's just an older machine, 275 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the Dell that I've had for awhile I just left 276 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it on 7, cuz I'm like Eh, when I need to 277 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 replace the machine Ill just get 278 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Windows 10 machine. 279 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) But what about all those gotta have it 280 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 apps you can't run? 281 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Um?! 282 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Fa Ballencer) Now a quick question, 283 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this really did hurt Microsoft's reputation, 284 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 right? I mean Yes, That number of how 285 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 many deployments they have of Windows 10 286 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is forever going to be asterisk. 287 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 People said "Well how many of those were 288 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 accidental upgrades or how many of those 289 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 were installs and then rollbacks almost 290 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 immediately. This. . Will people forget this 291 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or will Windows 10 upgrade nag screen 292 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 be the butt of jokes for the next two 293 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 decades. (Paul) Honestly I think they've 294 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 irreparably harmed their reputation with 295 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this and not just Microsoft generally but 296 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the reputation of Windows as well. 297 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The forced upgrade thing was a huge mistake 298 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 on their part and a very risky gamble and 299 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the recent people aren't going to forget 300 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it is because they came out and said we're 301 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 going to hit a billion within two to three 302 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 years and then right before Windows the 303 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 windows ten free upgrade ended they said 304 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know what we're not going to make that 305 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 goal and so even though they did that they 306 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 were unable to you know meet this reasonable 307 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 goal, I thought, of reaching a billion 308 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 users in that timeframe. 309 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - You know Mary Jo there's two ways to 310 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 look at this. There's one way and this would, 311 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think this is where Paul lines up, there 312 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 was an executive or some marketing person 313 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 who said you know what we want to hit a 314 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 billion because it sounds like a great number. 315 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So let's just force this on people. The 316 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 other way to think of this is that some 317 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 engineers said you know what people 318 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 will like ten if they just try it if we just 319 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 get it on the machine they will understand 320 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 what all the hoopla is about. 321 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Which of those do you fall with? 322 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - So I also, like Paul, think this was a 323 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 big mistake and the part that really 324 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 kind of riled me the most was when 325 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Microsoft was taking the tack of saying 326 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's for users own good that were doing 327 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this and you know I was like wait this is 328 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so paternalistic How can you say what's 329 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for my good or my mother's good who 330 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 accidently got Windows ten and like flipped 331 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 out when she got it you know I just think 332 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that argument didn't work. I'm happy. They 333 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 made a free upgrade available very easily 334 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to people but I don't think they should 335 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 have rammed it down people's throat. 336 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But it's also, I don’t know if it qualifies 337 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 as ironic but, You know one of the kind of 338 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 contracts you enter into with Microsoft 339 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when you do install or get Windows 10 is 340 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you're accepting a constant stream of 341 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 upgrades and you really can't do anything 342 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 as an individual to befriend that from 343 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 happening. Least not elegantly or easily 344 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and your introduction to this new world is 345 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Microsoft seamlessly and inelegantly 346 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 jamming Windows 10 down your throat 347 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know it's it's kind of a nasty preview 348 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of what the future holds for you when you 349 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 do this and it's just the wrong first step 350 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know to resent, it was a terrible mistake 351 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - Yeah and then the, you hiding of the way 352 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that you would actually accept the upgrade 353 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 where people were closing the window. 354 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That was really bad. That made like a bad 355 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 situation worse. So yeah not a good look. 356 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - In writing about this topic today 357 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I decided not to go back and hit on every 358 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 single little milestone in this because 359 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 frankly it's kind of depressing. 360 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know, when you go back to look at the 361 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 sheer amount of stuff that both of us I'm 362 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 sure have written about this get Windows 10 363 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 thing since last year and the various ways 364 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they changed it silently some Windows 365 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Update, or group of Windows Updates would 366 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 go out, some of them would prevent the 367 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 blockers from, you know or the un-blockers 368 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I guess from you know working. 369 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 some of them would change the way the 370 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 dialog looked or worked. You know in the 371 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 past when you close the window, it would 372 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 just go away but at one point when you 373 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 close the window you silently have accepted 374 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the upgrade and that's purposefully evil. 375 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's terrible. 376 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -For me I think that hurt more than anything 377 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 else because I understand wanting to 378 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 force out the update. Especially since 379 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they believe it's going to be much more 380 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 secure, it's going to be much more feature 381 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 rich. But the fact that they kept playing 382 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 cat and mouse with people who just didn't 383 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 want to be nagged anymore. That's the 384 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 reputation strike it's like ok if I went to 385 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the trouble of removing that nag screen 386 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 then obviously I'm a savvy user if I can 387 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 do that. So the fact that you're trying to 388 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 work around what I did. Now I feel as if 389 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we're playing Microsoft nanny state. 390 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Right -Yeah, yeah 391 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 A lot of times you know they keep saying 392 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know what, we're letting people get 393 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 around it, if they go in and edit the 394 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 registry settings. I'm like, wait a second 395 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 hold on, that's not something most people 396 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 should do. In fact, probably very few 397 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 should do it. And so when that was 398 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 like “Hey were give you an alternative 399 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to get out of it. I was like uh, that's 400 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 not a good option. 401 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -That's not an alternative. 402 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 –No 403 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - I mean the funny thing they get looking 404 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 back over a year of articles for this topic. 405 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 What I reminded myself of was in late June 406 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 one month before the free offer ended. 407 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 They finally added something to that 408 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 box that said I don't want this please 409 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 stop asking me. It took them eleven of 410 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the twelve months to get to that point. 411 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That's how it should have been on day one. 412 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know it's just uh, you just can't 413 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 recover from this. We don't know, we may 414 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 never know the psychological impact that 415 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 had on what may or may not have been 416 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 very good to Microsoft customers that day, 417 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 who upon looking for a new computer at 418 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 some time in the future may decide they 419 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 need, they are going to get a pro book 420 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 instead or a mac book or well probably not 421 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 a Linux computer that's crazy. But you know 422 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 what I'm saying. That they're going to look 423 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 at an iPad even or something, whatever. 424 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And just make that decision because they 425 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 don't want to be harassed which is a 426 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 completely reasonable request. You know. 427 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Let's close the book on this bad chapter. 428 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 –Yeah, yeah I think so. 429 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's not a mulligan but it's since you say 430 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 OK you know what, you kind of hit some 431 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of the numbers you wanted not the big one 432 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but now actually show us that our faith in 433 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you is not misplaced. But to be fair, we 434 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 could look at other companies in the 435 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 industry, like Google that are doing the 436 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 same sort of strong arm tactics. 437 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Google right now is making a big push for 438 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 HTTPS, they want everything to be encypted 439 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 end to end on the internet, that's a good 440 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 goal, but some people feel that their 441 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 approach is heavy handed. Now, the new 442 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 updates to Chrome are going to automatically 443 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 mark any site that doesn't have HTTPS built 444 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 into it as insecure so that little icon is 445 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 going to pop up, warning people that maybe 446 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they shouldn't visit the site. People think 447 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that's heavy handed, but those looking at 448 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it say, "well this is ultimately going to 449 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 lead to a better internet." you could make 450 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the same call here. You could say "Look, 451 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this was heavy handed, this was 452 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Microsoft being the worst of the nannies, 453 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but a more secure OS ultimately is a 454 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 better experience." 455 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -All of the goals that Microsoft had for 456 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this were valid right. Even the self-serving 457 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 ones you know, the notion that we would 458 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 all be better off if more of us run the 459 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 very latest version of the O. S. and were 460 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 always updated to be on that version would 461 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 make us all more secure because it's less 462 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 work for Microsoft to do to fix the problems 463 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know, are going to occur down the road 464 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Everyone benefits from that there's no. . 465 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you can't really dispute it. But the 466 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 problem is when they say oh good, everyone 467 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 agrees? Good! Now you're all getting the 468 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 new upgrade is like whoa whoa hold on a 469 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 second, you know, you mention for example 470 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that you have U.S.B. devices that don't 471 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 work on Windows 10. I'm sure anyone. 472 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 listening to this has some examples of 473 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 some things whatever might be, uh… 474 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that don't work you know or some reason 475 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 whatever it may be that they couldn't 476 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 upgrade. I mean you can't. . . I don't 477 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 believe you can I mean they tried you can't 478 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 really just jam this kind of thing down 479 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 people's throats. 480 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -And for our few fruit flans in the chat room 481 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 right now. Why is it that Microsoft trying 482 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to force Windows 10 on people was a 483 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 boondoggle. Whereas another company's 484 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 decision to remove a standard port was brave? 485 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo laughs) Courage 486 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) Good marketing. 487 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Fa. Ballencer) Maybe this was just 488 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Microsoft’s courage, and we’re all just 489 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 misunderstanding it. 490 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Uhm –Ok (Laughter) -Well OK 491 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) It was courageous of them to attempt. 492 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Fa. Ballencer) It was, it was. Although 493 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I will say something I really don't like 494 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is the fact that they've disabled something 495 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 from 8 because if you do Windows stacked 496 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 side by side it's pretty seamless but if 497 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you do one on top of the other there's 498 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 always a hard break as you move between 499 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 screens. In 8 you used to be able to 500 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 disable that sticky window, you just move 501 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 right through it. You can do the same 502 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 registry edit in 10 but it doesn't fix it. 503 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That never goes away and that's why I 504 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 don't understand that, Go figure. All right. 505 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 When we come back. We need to talk about 506 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 something a bit more cheery because we've 507 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we've been hammering on Microsoft so rather 508 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 than talking about a forced Windows 10 update 509 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think maybe we should talk about some 510 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Layoffs -Yeah. (laughter) -Oh boy! 511 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 –Yay let’s get pumped. But first let's go 512 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 ahead and take a moment to thank the first 513 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 sponsor of this episode of Windows weekly. 514 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Hey folks do you worry about bandwidth 515 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because we don't because here at the new 516 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Eastside studio. We've got 10gig. 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And we thank Sonic 575 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for their support of Windows Weekly. 576 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 OK this is one of these stories that it 577 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 almost feels as if a continuation of stories 578 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that we've already covered but who 579 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 wants to talk about the bad news for 580 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 pink slips over at Microsoft. 581 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo) Oh wait, can we talk about the Skype thing first. 582 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Fa Bellencer) OK sure. OK You know 583 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 what that's hold off on the super awesome 584 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo) I mean it's related but we can 585 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we could kind of mix it up a little. 586 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -The people getting pink slips got them over Skype. (laughter) 587 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo) That would have been interesting 588 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) Which explains why some of them 589 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 have been home. Some of them got it seventeen times. (laughing) 590 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo) Burn, burn (Fa Bellencer) ok Skype, let’s do Skype. 591 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Ok so this um, Paul should the S.M.S. relate because you, I think you've 592 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 actually looked at it, right? 593 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -No, well not exactly, so, Err, how do I explain this, 594 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but earlier this year Microsoft announced a feature that was going to come 595 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in the Windows 10 anniversary update called messaging everywhere 596 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and the idea is that you have a Windows Phone or an Android phone 597 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and you can use your computer to send text messages and receive text messages 598 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 right like you can do in a Mac if you have an iPhone as well. 599 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And everyone was really excited about it, some insiders started testing it 600 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and then very late in the game they said you know what. 601 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Actually we're not going to put this in Windows ten. 602 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 This makes more sense for Skype we'll put it in the Skype preview app 603 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but sometime later in the year they yanked it out of Windows 10 604 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 some people were disappointed you know because they were using it 605 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but you know I think we can agree that a messaging feature makes more sense for 606 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Microsoft's messaging solution than it does for Windows specifically so 607 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's going to be part of Skype. So in the most recent Windows insider build 608 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 which was released last week I think Microsoft's added this feature in for 609 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the first time and now they're calling it S.M.S. relay actually been calling 610 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about for some time but it's a slightly more technical and less interesting name 611 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and the functionality is supposed to work the same way in this initial version 612 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 however you need to have the latest fast ring version of Windows 10 from 613 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 windows insiders. I think 14 9 23 or something like that. And you also need 614 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to have that same build on Windows 10 mobile it only works on those two systems 615 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so I have both of these things but I couldn't get it. 616 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm not seeing it on my phone I don't know why. 617 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but the idea again is that you can from the Skype preview app on Windows 10 618 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for P.C.'s send and receive text messages and so if your phone is over the corner 619 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 charging somebody sends you a text message you get a notification on your P.C. 620 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 click on it you can reply to it right there. It sends out over your phone 621 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 as you would expect so it's coming. And it will come as part of Skype, right? 622 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so we won't have to wait for the next major version of Windows 10 to get it. 623 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Which by the way is another one of the advantages of putting it on Skype. 624 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -You know what's weird though I think I messaged you about this that I have an 625 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Android phone. I have a Windows 10 P.C. and I am seeing my text messages 626 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 from my phone show up on my Windows 10 P.C. and I'm not on 627 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the insider program right! –Which is really interesting. 628 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Yeah, So I think it's because of Cortana though because I have Cortana on both 629 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I believe that also gives you some of that functionality but that then 630 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm like OK So is this in the future going to be taken out of Cortana? 631 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Yes so, right. Actually it's kind of confusing because this is hum, 632 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I wrote a book about Windows 10 that I'm still updating for the anniversary update 633 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and one of the things I put off literally to the very end that I will wrote right 634 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in the last of all the new content is phone integration because it's actually a 635 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 little convoluted there are three ways right now that you can get information 636 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 back and forth from your phone through Windows 10 as I understand it. One is this 637 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 new S.M.S. relay feature in the Skype preview. One is the thing you're seeing 638 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 which is the Cortana integration but there's also like a Windows phone 639 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 integration I will get Windows Phone notifications in Action Center on 640 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Windows 10that are notifications that came from Windows 10 in the phone and so 641 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they could be about anything it will be like Facebook updates. 642 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know different things from different apps on the phone and those things will 643 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 actually surface in Windows 10 of my P.C. as well. So I'm still trying to kind of.. 644 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 where and how all these things happen and why you know it's interesting I have 645 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 three different phones, so I have and Android phone like you do and I have the 646 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Windows Phone and also an iPhone So the iPhone doesn't really do anything 647 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but the expectation is that you'll have a pretty decent level of functionality 648 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 through Android if you have Windows 10 and then obviously if you have 649 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Windows 10 mobile you would have the best experience 650 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because those two things would be tightly integrated. 651 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -You know that's something in a feature I actually would really like 652 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 something in Windows that shows me how the various services integrate because 653 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's always an crapshoot for me about what notifications I get on what devices like 654 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you I've got I.O.'s devices I've got Windows devices I've got Android I think 655 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Windows Mobile and it always, I’m never really sure what is syncing and what's not 656 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -It's like a roulette wheel and I just was speaking Skype specifically, this morning 657 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I was chatting with Brad on Skype & we're you know we're texting back and forth 658 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 he writes, I write you know five minutes goes by, 15 minutes and all of a sudden 659 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 one of my three phones in this case it was my iPhone the screen lights up and 660 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I look over and it's a Skype notification of something. Brad had written me on Skype 661 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about two minutes earlier. And so for some reason that one version of the app 662 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 on that one phone lit up. It was like all my devices or weight are in the back and 663 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 one of those are like I got it. I got it, 664 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and it just kind of like I'm having an active conversation in Skype on Windows. 665 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know why? Why would these other things? You know how it is, if I go to my 666 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Android phone and I turn them on right now and I go into Skype. You know thus 667 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 waking it up which is a mistake. It's like Jason from Friday the 13th or something 668 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but if I do wake it up briefly it will flash those one two three conversations 669 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that are marked unread the conversations I had earlier with Brad actually this one 670 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 from Twit and the conversations I had with Mary Jo according to this version of 671 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the app these conversations are unread. 672 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -I know, that happens to me too. Yet when I when I've had my Windows 10 673 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 laptop off for a while I turn on you know they all the messages filtered through 674 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but then some show up as unread and some show up as read. 675 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Yep. 676 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -So I'm not sure what makes both of those things happen. 677 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Yeah I ended up going into Windows 10 notification I just turning off everything 678 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because I was so tired of receiving the same notifications 15 times 679 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Yep 680 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Actually there's something else that I do love the syncing across accounts 681 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that actually does work nicely except for the fact that at home. I've got this 682 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 monster set up with two 4K. monitors and a bunch of little monitors around the 683 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 periphery and it tries to import those preferences into my laptop and it doesn't 684 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 matter how many times I tell it not to do that it. There's always an update in the, 685 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the switch gets turned back on & suddenly all the text on my laptop is tiny. 686 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Because it's adjusting with what it thinks I want to the desktop, which that's again 687 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I want some sort of central control panel that shows all my devices and which 688 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 settings are moving between which devices. It sounds like that's an absolute 689 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 necessity now with all the different devices that we use. And with all the 690 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 syncing that Microsoft trying to build into the products. That's a necessity. 691 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Yeah you know obviously Microsoft doesn't have a big presence slash 692 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 any presence in Mobile and so one of the concerns that they have that maybe Apple 693 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 doesn't have and Google only has to a lesser extent say with IOS Devices is the 694 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 cross-platform stuff you know Bart W on Twitter's ask Mary-Jo and I if S.M.S. 695 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 relay is coming to the Skype apps on IOS and Android as 696 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 well and it's a reasonable expectation that it would but 697 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know of course on Android you have a Microsoft has a 698 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 much easier way of getting into the system and making 699 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this more seamless whereas in IOS, if you think about how 700 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Cortana works you kind of have to go in and run the app 701 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for some things to happen. You know it's never going to be as. . 702 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 even though it can you know, it can sort of run in the background a little bit 703 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you can never be sure that it will always be there. This is more easily done on 704 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Android and Windows Phone So if you… Mary-Jo do you know off the top you head 705 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 has Microsoft ever spoke to S.M.S relay on IOS Android? 706 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -I don't remember them saying that. 707 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 –It seems like it would have to the right? 708 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo) I know it does seemed like it 709 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 would have to 710 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -What would be the point of S.M.S relay 711 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to Windows 10 mobile? 712 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Right. 713 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - Mary Jo I've got an enterprise question 714 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for you. Do we know how many versions of 715 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 messaging Windows has.. uh Microsoft has 716 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because you've got Skype. You've got 717 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Skype for business. You've got Skype for 718 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 broadcast and then you've got the link 719 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 stuff which was actually supposed to take 720 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 over for the Skype stuff but then that 721 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 seems to be flipped. Now that we've got the Dela 722 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 do you see what's in the strategy going 723 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 forward or we just keep getting fractured 724 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 off into different types of Skype and do they still have 725 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that artificial delineation between consumer and enterprise? 726 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -They do. They still have the delineation 727 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 there is still Skype consumer and Skype 728 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for business are not the same product 729 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 even though they're both called Skype and you're right. Link is still kind of 730 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 hanging around for some on promise the 731 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 stuff but ultimately Link, the Link name 732 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 will totally go away and link will be 733 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 completely superseded by Skype for business that will happen. 734 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Because that was going the other way. I mean Skype was going to go to go away and 735 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they were going to keep Link and so now they've reversed on that. 736 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - Yes So I think they're being pretty 737 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 consistent on length being supplanted by Skype for business. 738 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -OK. 739 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -I think next week which is Microsoft 740 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 ignite we might hear some new things 741 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about Skype for business and kind of 742 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 where that's going because every time we 743 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 ask Microsoft about Skype they'll answer 744 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Skype consumer questions but they won't 745 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 talk at all about Skype for business. And 746 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think next week's show because it's a 747 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 very I T pro focus show we probably will 748 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 hear some new things about Skype for 749 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 business and hopefully about how it's 750 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 going to be syncing soon with OneDrive 751 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and OneDrive for business. That's 752 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 something people are really waiting 753 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 anxiously for and last we heard that was 754 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 going to happen in the final calendar 755 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 quarter of this year. So we're almost in the final calendar quarter. 756 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Seems like we should get some new News on that next week. 757 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - Wait Skype for business will sync with OneDrive? 758 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -With OneDrive for business, yes! 759 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -How does that.. Wait what is it syncing? 760 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - They’ll be integration. Sorry. Am I saying OneDrive business or 761 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 am I thinking Share Point. I’m thinking about Share Point. 762 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -OK, OK that makes sense 763 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Sorry I'm thinking about Share Point 764 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when I'm saying OneDrive for business but 765 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 um, it may, Microsoft talked about Share Point and OneDrive business being able to 766 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 actually have better sync across those 767 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 two products and they said that was going 768 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to counter Q four and I think that's what 769 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we might hear about next week. But yeah 770 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know every time we ask about Skype. 771 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know we've heard recently that Skype 772 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is moving to this new kind of universal 773 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 next generation client and when I asked 774 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Microsoft you know does that also mean 775 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Skype for businesses is going to be on 776 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that same universal client. 777 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 They said we're not really talking about Skype for Business. 778 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -You're like whoa. 779 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Don't get ahead of yourself here. 780 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - And don't forget the upcoming Skype for 781 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Web R.T.C. because I mean that's also 782 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 another universal client and universal, universal. 783 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -But we should talk about this thing that 784 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 surfaced this week called Skype for life. Speaking of . 785 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Oh good I was just hoping we would have another Skype. 786 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - Speaking of Jason from Friday the 13th. (laughing) 787 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -OK what is Skype For Life? 788 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -OK So ARS Technica Dr Pizza over there 789 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 got a tip from one of his sources or 790 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 maybe multiple sources that Microsoft was 791 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 working on a product called Skype For Life and he and a lot of us have first 792 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 kind of thought maybe this was a name for 793 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the universal Skype client that would 794 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 work across all different platforms that 795 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 would be kind of like what Microsoft has 796 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 described as the universal Windows 797 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 platform equivalent but for the other 798 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 platforms like IOS and Android. But then 799 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Paul dug around a little and thought it 800 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 through and he says no but that is not what that it is. 801 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -No! No I mean I talked 802 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to Peter about it., Skype, Ironically. 803 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I don't doubt that he was told this 804 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I don't doubt that the person who 805 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 told him saw this and thought that they 806 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 understood what they were seeing but you 807 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 know I talked to the Skype guys back in 808 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 June or July about the strategy Mary Jo 809 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 just discussed where they're moving to a 810 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 new generation clients they have updated 811 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 their back end infrastructure they 812 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 temporarily have to maintain the old 813 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 P.D.P. infrastructure for certain 814 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 applications or services but that's going 815 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to be going away. The combination of 816 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 these two back end services explains the 817 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Skype reliability issues that we've all 818 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 seen over the past you know several 819 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 months I was told. And I thought you 820 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 know, Skype For Life and making yet again 821 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 new, some new client that would somehow 822 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 run across all those platforms didn't 823 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 make any sense to me and if you look at 824 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that next to their previously stated 825 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 strategy it's clear to me that Skype For 826 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Life is just a marketing term and what 827 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they're describing internally I think is 828 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the culmination of that previous existing 829 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 strategy that the new infrastructures 830 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 switched over to their new clients are 831 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 all available. They all interact and all 832 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 have the new features and it's not that 833 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's one client's I mean obviously 834 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Windows will have P.W.P. clients, IOS and 835 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Android will have native apps there, 836 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Linux will have what they have and there 837 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 will be the web version as well. And 838 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 these things will have some baseline of 839 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 functionality that works across all of 840 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 them on this new infrastructure that's the point of it. 841 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -You know what I'm going to still be a 842 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 doubter here. OK I don't think, I think 843 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the more I think about this the more I 844 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 think you're right that it isn't a new 845 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 totally new Skype client. I think that 846 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 would just be crazy and kind of going 847 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 back to what they just got away from but 848 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think Skype For Life is something else 849 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and the reason I'm thinking that it's a 850 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 marketing slogan but, maybe it's 851 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 something like you know they call Skype 852 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 translator a feature of Skype like that. 853 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That's how they brand that and Skype for 854 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 teams which is what they're going to be 855 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 doing to compete with Slack. I also think 856 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they'll call that a feature of Skype. I 857 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 don't think they'll call of a new version 858 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of Skype. So I'm thinking Skype For Life 859 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 might be something like using Skype to 860 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 improve your life in some way. So maybe 861 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's like I don't know I'm just I'm 862 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 totally reaching here but Skype like 863 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 maybe Skype and the Microsoft Health 864 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 platforms somehow connected or you know 865 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Skype being used for some specific thing 866 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that's more about health and welfare and 867 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 maybe a very specific almost like a 868 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 vertical I'm just guessing here again but 869 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think it's something else. 870 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -I mean that seems very far reaching. It 871 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 might be simpler that you know it's funny 872 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we were just kind of joking around and 873 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 slash complaining about how you know 874 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Skype will ring on various devices and 875 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 whatever because we have various devices 876 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because we're nerds and so Skype For Life 877 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 could be as simple as what I think of a 878 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Skype everywhere this this feature you 879 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 know that a normal person with a computer 880 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and a phone or a tablet and a phone would 881 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 want to get messages everywhere and 882 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that's the For Life. In other words. 883 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Whatever your life is whatever your 884 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 habits are whatever devices you choose to use Skype will be there. You know. 885 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -That could be 886 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -I just you know regardless of what it is 887 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I mean I think it's mostly a marketing 888 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 term. Right. Not so much a product. And 889 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's almost just a way to describe functionality to normal people. 890 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -I'd be down with the marketing term. I spoke with a rep a Microsoft rep over at 891 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 IFA in Berlin last month and or no this 892 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 month and of course didn't want to talk 893 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about it but what he was describing was 894 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that this is Skype UC this is the unified 895 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 communication promised the idea of we 896 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 don't want Skype to be an app. It 897 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 shouldn't be something you start up it 898 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 should be something that is just 899 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 everywhere. They're using Microsoft 900 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 products. You should be able to say 901 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Cortana call Paul Thurrott and it will 902 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 automatically kick out Skype and it 903 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 doesn't even call a Skype it just 904 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 connects. Hum, and I can see that I mean 905 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that UC promises has been something 906 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that's been around for ten years maybe 907 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this is Microsoft finally saying let's do. 908 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 - Or saying we finally have enough pieces 909 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in place for it makes sense right. I mean 910 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 even the things like integrating Skype 911 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 into Outlook.com and OneDrive.com on the 912 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 web or the Outlook 2016 Mail clients in 913 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 office 2016 which you know depending on 914 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 your view of things you might find 915 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 incredibly useful or incredibly annoying 916 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because it certainly on the web, they 917 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 don't do a good job with that but 918 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think that these things are all part of 919 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 … how do you describe a bunch of little 920 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 things? It's a.. what's the theme? You 921 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 know universal communications is how we 922 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 would say it in the enterprise and maybe 923 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Skype For Life is how they want to say it to people. 924 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -You know what Padre just gave me a crazy idea another crazy idea. 925 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Oh good 926 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -What if Skype For Life is a bot? 927 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Oh 928 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Now they’re intergrading more bots into 929 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Skype right and there's been all this 930 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 talk about a concierge bot that Bing was 931 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 working on for a while to be kind of like 932 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 your personal assistant for a life. You 933 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 know somebody who you could say hey what 934 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 movies are playing can you get me some 935 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 tickets. Maybe this is Skype For Life? 936 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -But then Skype for life would have to fight Cortana to the death. 937 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -I know. Yeah. BOTS and Cortana they... 938 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think they're siblings I think they're friends but yeah 939 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Their twins, Skype For Life is the twin 940 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they kept in the closet until he was a 941 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 teenager so he’s a little stunted. 942 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We've actually got people in the chat 943 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 room, we've got ‘hey it's Todd’ who 944 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 suggested that Skype For Life is actually 945 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the name of a new form of judicial 946 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 punishment and then you see the really 947 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 really bad, you only get to use Skype (Laughing) 948 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -It sounds like a big punishment. 949 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -And a guy could be like oh I’ve been Skyped. 950 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Should it just be Skype 10? I mean, 951 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 cause that was the whole idea of Windows 10. It is the last Windows you will ever 952 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 own is this Skype 10 is it like look it will always be this way. 953 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -And what you're supposed to do 954 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 everything to ensure it. That’s windows. God bless 955 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -The ultimate Skype. 956 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Honestly Windows 10 is a terrible name 957 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 right. That should have just been Windows 958 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I don't think we need to go 10 I think if 959 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 anything we should be stripping the 960 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 numbers off of the products that still have numbers. 961 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Maybe they really want it to be Windows X. 962 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Apple's doing that right? Apple's changing back 963 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -They've kind of moved to the right 964 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because they still have version numbers 965 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 obviously you have to have the stuff 966 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 behind the scenes but you know they talk 967 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about the new version MacOS as Sierra. 968 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know and they've been doing that for 969 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 years. I guess but they really they 970 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 emphasize that you know it's a friendly 971 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 name and I think that's a nicer approach 972 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 than some godly book like H.P. product 973 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 names or version or just not version 974 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 numbers because numbers or even using the 975 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 version number the name is just it's just 976 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's I think that's just old fashioned 977 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Yeah 978 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Yeah it's kind of I mean because you have to… 979 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -I know especially if its the last right 980 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 last version of something, supposedly 981 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -It should have just been Windows ultimate, 982 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Oh wait, we've already used that. Never mind! 983 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Calling something the last version of 984 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this product is like the worst way to 985 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 market something ever invented. You know 986 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this is the last version we're ever going 987 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to make a Windows. Oh know we’re gonna 988 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 keep updating it, but this is the last one. 989 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 –There’ll be some serious updates to it but no, this is it. 990 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -So it really is just not smart mart. (Sigh) I'm going to be… 991 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm going to change my name to Padre 10. I will be the last Padre, you’ll ever know 992 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Actually if you can change it to 10.01. 993 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -There'll be updates to Padre, but this is really the final version. 994 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Paul) There will always be that little hidden miss. 995 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Mary-Jo) Padre Hena-versary. 996 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Don't we… the Padre anniversary edition. 997 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's ten pounds lighter but has all the features. (laughing) 998 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 All right, we're going to bog down a bit 999 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 too much and it is a fun story, but there 1000 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is one more story that has so much fun it 1001 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 has to be dispelled. Paul. There were 1002 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 people screaming all over the Internet 1003 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that Microsoft is being the big bad by 1004 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 trying to lock Linux out of new P.C.'s Is this true? 1005 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 –No! And that's all we need to say about 1006 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that. If I could somehow make a career 1007 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 out of just debunking stupidity. Right. I mean I just… you get into these 1008 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 conversations of people on Twitter who 1009 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 see these stories and they.. I think it's 1010 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the way conspiracy theories work right. 1011 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's.. it hits on your internal beliefs 1012 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and so you instantly throw common sense 1013 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to the wind and say oh course their doing 1014 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this. Microsoft is evil. It's like guys 1015 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's not 1998 anymore it could be maybe 1016 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 upgrade the way we think about Microsoft 1017 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and their relationship with Linux in 1018 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 particular. The topic and if you don't 1019 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 know what it is I guess we should 1020 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 probably step back a second and say that 1021 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 somebody had discovered that a Lenovo 1022 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 P.C. bought from the Microsoft store so 1023 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's a signature P.C. and thus is running 1024 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 something called Windows 10 signature 1025 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 edition which doesn't exist. Somehow has 1026 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the magic capability of preventing Linux 1027 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 from ever being installed in that 1028 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 computer. That's not a capability of an 1029 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 operating system that’s something that 1030 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 would have to be built into the firmware 1031 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I guess of the computer I mean I 1032 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 obviously there's always going to be some 1033 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 way to brute stall anything on there but 1034 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know, read it happens. There’s one of 1035 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the guys from ZD Net wrote a very calm 1036 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and collected article but anyway I 1037 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 appreciated that. But here's the thing, 1038 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 signature P.C. is as I describe it. 1039 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think the smallest province of the 1040 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 windows empire that exists in Microsoft. 1041 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 They have no power at all the very notion 1042 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that they could require a P.C. maker to 1043 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 do anything is ludicrous. Let alone the 1044 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 world's number one P.C. maker. Microsoft 1045 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is not the business of blocking Linux. 1046 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 They never really were. But it's one of 1047 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 those things like a lot of people kind of 1048 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 like want to believe is the case. Some 1049 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 guy supposedly from Lenovo got into a 1050 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 support forum somewhere and said Yeah. 1051 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 This might this is part of our agreement 1052 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 with Microsoft. That's not true. By the 1053 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 way because Lenovo came out with a 1054 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 statement and said no that's not what's 1055 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 happening. It's one of those things like 1056 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you don't actually have to know the 1057 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 answer to know the answer. It's a little 1058 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 bit like the Skype For Life thing like if 1059 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you think it through. It's like this is 1060 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 not what's happening and so I ... I'm not 1061 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the one that got the statement so I think 1062 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's Tech Republic. They've got the 1063 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 statement but I did a write up about it and uh debating it… 1064 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -This is just secure boot on the UEFI right?. I mean that's all it is. 1065 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -It's not exactly but it's that exact 1066 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 kind of topic yes but Lenovo has a one 1067 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of, it's probably just one Lenovo 1068 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 computer actually but there is a Lenovo 1069 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 computer that has a very strange raid 1070 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 S.S.D. configuration and as people are 1071 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 discovering if they try to clean install 1072 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Windows 10 on that computer it won't work 1073 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 either. It's. It's a very unique 1074 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 configuration. It's not part of a secret 1075 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 cabal with Microsoft to screw Linux users 1076 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 out of their new computer but you know I 1077 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 think I said this to Mary Jo privately or 1078 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 maybe Brad we were I was chatting with 1079 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 somebody earlier today and so consider 1080 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the market out there for people who are 1081 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 going to buy a Windows based computer and 1082 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 install Linux on it right and there is 1083 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 some number it's a small number but the 1084 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 some group of people do that. And now 1085 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 let's consider the subset of those people 1086 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 who are going to drive to a Microsoft 1087 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 store pick it lovingly pick out their… 1088 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know favorite signature P.C. 1089 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 configuration from the store, buy it from 1090 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Microsoft. You know their favorite 1091 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 company. And then put Linux on it. I mean 1092 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 like I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm 1093 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 not saying it's not going to happen but 1094 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 c'mon. I mean and this is Microsoft's. 1095 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Path to world domination we're going to 1096 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 do it through the signature pieces that 1097 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 nobody even knows exists at the stores 1098 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and you can't even find there where you 1099 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 live. It's just the whole thing is loaded 1100 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's just typical. Watching this cascade 1101 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 across the Internet today. It's just as 1102 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 depressing. That's just so typical. You 1103 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 know it destroys your faith in humanity 1104 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or reconfirms my belief that we're all idiots. I mean it's just it's sad. 1105 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -And he thought Lenovo did show. I mean I 1106 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 can't remember what they call it it's 1107 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 like software services but then on boot 1108 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 up you actually get the option of what 1109 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 packages you want to install. So you could make it a signature… 1110 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -You mean..? 1111 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -All the crapware. 1112 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -That’s interesting. So Lenovo not the 1113 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 only P.C. makers starting to do that kind 1114 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of a thing and I really like this 1115 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 approach it's because it's something P.C. 1116 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 makers are not familiar with called customer centricity. 1117 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know H.P.’s newer machines will do 1118 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the same thing and in the past you get a 1119 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 bunch of utilities and things running in 1120 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the tray and whatever was. Now you have 1121 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to seek out those applications and at the 1122 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 time that you run it. It says hey we have 1123 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this tray thing we can put it and you 1124 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 want to use it and if you say no that's 1125 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in the end of it you know and that's the 1126 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 way things should be you know don't you think. Yeah so. 1127 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Well it sure beats me having to spend the 1128 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 first thirty minutes of my new P.C.’s life 1129 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 uninstalling everything that came pre-installed. 1130 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -Yes right. Actually we will never be 1131 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 deemed intelligent beings by future 1132 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 civilizations because of things like this. 1133 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's like when you buy an electronic 1134 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 device and spend the first thirty minutes 1135 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 updating the software or when you buy a 1136 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 smartphone and you install apps and you 1137 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 spend the next seven days removing or 1138 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 changing notifications or like what you 1139 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 1140 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 1141 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 1142 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 1143 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 1144 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 1145 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999