WEBVTT 00:00:00.521 --> 00:00:05.356 We most certainly do talk to terrorists, no question about it. 00:00:05.356 --> 00:00:11.242 We are at war with a new form of terrorism. 00:00:11.242 --> 00:00:14.744 It's sort of the good old, traditional form of terrorism, 00:00:14.744 --> 00:00:18.206 but it's sort of been packaged for the 21st century. 00:00:18.206 --> 00:00:22.654 One of the big things about countering terrorism 00:00:22.654 --> 00:00:25.986 is, how do you perceive it? 00:00:25.986 --> 00:00:29.482 Because perception leads to your response to it. 00:00:29.482 --> 00:00:33.710 So if you have a traditional perception of terrorism, 00:00:33.710 --> 00:00:37.658 it would be that it's one of criminality, one of war. 00:00:37.658 --> 00:00:39.271 So how are you going to respond to it? 00:00:39.271 --> 00:00:42.905 Naturally, it would follow that you meet kind with kind. 00:00:42.905 --> 00:00:46.736 You fight it. If you have a more modernist approach, 00:00:46.736 --> 00:00:50.992 and your perception of terrorism is almost cause-and-effect, 00:00:50.992 --> 00:00:54.955 then naturally from that, the responses that come out of it 00:00:54.955 --> 00:00:58.603 are much more asymmetrical. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:58.603 --> 00:01:02.710 We live in a modern, global world. 00:01:02.710 --> 00:01:06.192 Terrorists have actually adapted to it. 00:01:06.192 --> 00:01:09.941 It's something we have to, too, and that means the people 00:01:09.941 --> 00:01:13.081 who are working on counterterrorism responses 00:01:13.081 --> 00:01:15.905 have to start, in effect, putting on 00:01:15.905 --> 00:01:20.159 their Google-tinted glasses, or whatever. NOTE Paragraph 00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:24.952 For my part, what I wanted us to do was just to look at 00:01:24.952 --> 00:01:28.456 terrorism as though it was a global brand, 00:01:28.456 --> 00:01:30.085 say, Coca-Cola. 00:01:30.085 --> 00:01:36.102 Both are fairly bad for your health. (Laughter) 00:01:36.102 --> 00:01:40.132 If you look at it as a brand in those ways, 00:01:40.132 --> 00:01:43.396 what you'll come to realize is, it's a pretty flawed product. 00:01:43.396 --> 00:01:46.489 As we've said, it's pretty bad for your health, 00:01:46.489 --> 00:01:48.495 it's bad for those who it affects, 00:01:48.495 --> 00:01:51.528 and it's not actually good if you're a suicide bomber either. 00:01:51.528 --> 00:01:55.144 It doesn't actually do what it says on the tin. 00:01:55.144 --> 00:02:00.136 You're not really going to get 72 virgins in heaven. 00:02:00.136 --> 00:02:02.606 It's not going to happen, I don't think. 00:02:02.606 --> 00:02:06.584 And you're not really going to, in the '80s, end capitalism 00:02:06.584 --> 00:02:09.505 by supporting one of these groups. It's a load of nonsense. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:09.505 --> 00:02:12.783 But what you realize, it's got an Achilles' heel. 00:02:12.783 --> 00:02:15.536 The brand has an Achilles' heel. 00:02:15.536 --> 00:02:17.303 We've mentioned the health, 00:02:17.303 --> 00:02:20.983 but it needs consumers to buy into it. 00:02:20.983 --> 00:02:25.063 The consumers it needs are the terrorist constituency. 00:02:25.063 --> 00:02:27.764 They're the people who buy into the brand, support them, 00:02:27.764 --> 00:02:31.072 facilitate them, and they're the people 00:02:31.072 --> 00:02:33.587 we've got to reach out to. 00:02:33.587 --> 00:02:36.447 We've got to attack that brand in front of them. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:36.447 --> 00:02:40.700 There's two essential ways of doing that, if we carry on this brand theme. 00:02:40.700 --> 00:02:43.978 One is reducing their market. What I mean is, 00:02:43.978 --> 00:02:48.754 it's their brand against our brand. We've got to compete. 00:02:48.754 --> 00:02:51.006 We've got to show we're a better product. 00:02:51.006 --> 00:02:54.163 If I'm trying to show we're a better product, 00:02:54.163 --> 00:02:59.094 I probably wouldn't do things like Guantanamo Bay. 00:02:59.094 --> 00:03:02.759 We've talked there about curtailing the underlying need 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:06.407 for the product itself. You could be looking there at 00:03:06.407 --> 00:03:09.992 poverty, injustice, all those sorts of things 00:03:09.992 --> 00:03:11.521 which feed terrorism. NOTE Paragraph 00:03:11.521 --> 00:03:15.253 The other thing to do is to knock the product, 00:03:15.253 --> 00:03:17.448 attack the brand myth, as we've said. 00:03:17.448 --> 00:03:20.807 You know, there's nothing heroic about killing a young kid. 00:03:20.807 --> 00:03:25.503 Perhaps we need to focus on that and get that message back across. 00:03:25.503 --> 00:03:28.597 We've got to reveal the dangers in the product. 00:03:28.597 --> 00:03:32.246 Our target audience, it's not just the producers of terrorism, 00:03:32.246 --> 00:03:33.447 as I've said, the terrorists. 00:03:33.447 --> 00:03:35.834 It's not just the marketeers of terrorism, 00:03:35.834 --> 00:03:40.641 which is those who finance, those who facilitate it, 00:03:40.641 --> 00:03:42.554 but it's the consumers of terrorism. 00:03:42.554 --> 00:03:45.788 We've got to get in to those homelands. 00:03:45.788 --> 00:03:49.257 That's where they recruit from. That's where they get their power and strength. 00:03:49.257 --> 00:03:51.609 That's where their consumers come from. 00:03:51.609 --> 00:03:55.521 And we have to get our messaging in there. 00:03:55.521 --> 00:03:59.370 So the essentials are, we've got to have interaction 00:03:59.370 --> 00:04:02.713 in those areas, with the terrorists, the facilitators, etc. 00:04:02.713 --> 00:04:05.848 We've got to engage, we've got to educate, 00:04:05.848 --> 00:04:08.651 and we've got to have dialogue. NOTE Paragraph 00:04:08.651 --> 00:04:12.802 Now, staying on this brand thing for just a few more seconds, 00:04:12.802 --> 00:04:16.054 think about delivery mechanisms. 00:04:16.054 --> 00:04:17.687 How are we going to do these attacks? 00:04:17.687 --> 00:04:20.696 Well, reducing the market is really one for governments 00:04:20.696 --> 00:04:24.214 and civil society. We've got to show we're better. 00:04:24.214 --> 00:04:28.056 We've got to show our values. 00:04:28.056 --> 00:04:30.358 We've got to practice what we preach. 00:04:30.358 --> 00:04:32.571 But when it comes to knocking the brand, 00:04:32.571 --> 00:04:37.043 if the terrorists are Coca-Cola and we're Pepsi, 00:04:37.043 --> 00:04:41.057 I don't think, being Pepsi, anything we say about Coca-Cola, 00:04:41.057 --> 00:04:42.939 anyone's going to believe us. NOTE Paragraph 00:04:42.939 --> 00:04:45.264 So we've got to find a different mechanism, 00:04:45.264 --> 00:04:47.656 and one of the best mechanisms I've ever come across 00:04:47.656 --> 00:04:50.313 is the victims of terrorism. 00:04:50.313 --> 00:04:53.226 They are somebody who can actually stand there and say, 00:04:53.226 --> 00:04:57.654 "This product's crap. I had it and I was sick for days. 00:04:57.654 --> 00:05:01.100 It burnt my hand, whatever." You believe them. 00:05:01.100 --> 00:05:03.743 You can see their scars. You trust them. 00:05:03.743 --> 00:05:09.008 But whether it's victims, whether it's governments, 00:05:09.008 --> 00:05:14.713 NGOs, or even the Queen yesterday, in Northern Ireland, 00:05:14.713 --> 00:05:18.815 we have to interact and engage with those different 00:05:18.815 --> 00:05:23.410 layers of terrorism, and, in effect, 00:05:23.410 --> 00:05:27.457 we do have to have a little dance with the devil. NOTE Paragraph 00:05:27.457 --> 00:05:30.440 This is my favorite part of my speech. 00:05:30.440 --> 00:05:33.696 I wanted to blow you all up to try and make a point, 00:05:33.696 --> 00:05:37.418 but — (Laughter) — 00:05:37.418 --> 00:05:40.206 TED, for health and safety reasons, have told me 00:05:40.206 --> 00:05:41.712 I've got to do a countdown, so 00:05:41.712 --> 00:05:45.010 I feel like a bit of an Irish or Jewish terrorist, 00:05:45.010 --> 00:05:50.424 sort of a health and safety terrorist, and I — (Laughter) — 00:05:50.424 --> 00:05:53.733 I've got to count 3, 2, 1, and 00:05:53.733 --> 00:05:57.060 it's a bit alarming, so thinking of what my motto would be, 00:05:57.060 --> 00:05:59.818 and it would be, "Body parts, not heart attacks." 00:05:59.818 --> 00:06:05.309 So 3, 2, 1. (Explosion sound) 00:06:05.309 --> 00:06:10.256 Very good. (Laughter) 00:06:10.256 --> 00:06:18.065 Now, lady in 15J was a suicide bomber amongst us all. 00:06:18.065 --> 00:06:20.190 We're all victims of terrorism. 00:06:20.190 --> 00:06:25.091 There's 625 of us in this room. We're going to be scarred for life. 00:06:25.091 --> 00:06:29.166 There was a father and a son who sat in that seat over there. 00:06:29.166 --> 00:06:31.650 The son's dead. The father lives. 00:06:31.650 --> 00:06:37.571 The father will probably kick himself for years to come 00:06:37.571 --> 00:06:41.810 that he didn't take that seat instead of his kid. 00:06:41.810 --> 00:06:43.823 He's going to take to alcohol, and he's probably 00:06:43.823 --> 00:06:48.183 going to kill himself in three years. That's the stats. 00:06:48.183 --> 00:06:51.927 There's a very young, attractive lady over here, 00:06:51.927 --> 00:06:54.955 and she has something which I think's the worst form 00:06:54.955 --> 00:06:57.751 of psychological, physical injury I've ever seen 00:06:57.751 --> 00:07:01.447 out of a suicide bombing: It's human shrapnel. 00:07:01.447 --> 00:07:03.600 What it means is, when she sat in a restaurant 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:06.605 in years to come, 10 years to come, 15 years to come, 00:07:06.605 --> 00:07:09.087 or she's on the beach, every so often she's going to start 00:07:09.087 --> 00:07:12.060 rubbing her skin, and out of there will come 00:07:12.060 --> 00:07:14.294 a piece of that shrapnel. 00:07:14.294 --> 00:07:19.526 And that is a hard thing for the head to take. 00:07:19.526 --> 00:07:22.454 There's a lady over there as well who lost her legs 00:07:22.454 --> 00:07:25.966 in this bombing. 00:07:25.966 --> 00:07:30.050 She's going to find out that she gets a pitiful amount 00:07:30.050 --> 00:07:34.157 of money off our government 00:07:34.157 --> 00:07:37.449 for looking after what's happened to her. 00:07:37.449 --> 00:07:39.589 She had a daughter who was going to go to one of the best 00:07:39.589 --> 00:07:42.290 universities. She's going to give up university 00:07:42.290 --> 00:07:46.019 to look after Mum. 00:07:46.019 --> 00:07:48.551 We're all here, and all of those who watch it 00:07:48.551 --> 00:07:51.190 are going to be traumatized by this event, 00:07:51.190 --> 00:07:54.338 but all of you here who are victims are going to learn 00:07:54.338 --> 00:07:55.920 some hard truths. 00:07:55.920 --> 00:08:00.641 That is, our society, we sympathize, but after a while, 00:08:00.641 --> 00:08:04.529 we start to ignore. We don't do enough as a society. 00:08:04.529 --> 00:08:08.106 We do not look after our victims, and we do not enable them, 00:08:08.106 --> 00:08:11.114 and what I'm going to try and show is that actually, 00:08:11.114 --> 00:08:13.898 victims are the best weapon we have 00:08:13.898 --> 00:08:17.074 against more terrorism. NOTE Paragraph 00:08:17.074 --> 00:08:21.290 How would the government at the turn of the millennium 00:08:21.290 --> 00:08:23.515 approach today? Well, we all know. 00:08:23.515 --> 00:08:26.119 What they'd have done then is an invasion. 00:08:26.119 --> 00:08:29.297 If the suicide bomber was from Wales, 00:08:29.297 --> 00:08:31.642 good luck to Wales, I'd say. 00:08:31.642 --> 00:08:35.394 Knee-jerk legislation, emergency provision legislation -- 00:08:35.394 --> 00:08:39.093 which hits at the very basis of our society, as we all know -- 00:08:39.093 --> 00:08:42.266 it's a mistake. 00:08:42.266 --> 00:08:45.721 We're going to drive prejudice throughout Edinburgh, 00:08:45.721 --> 00:08:50.151 throughout the U.K., for Welsh people. NOTE Paragraph 00:08:50.151 --> 00:08:55.796 Today's approach, governments have learned from their mistakes. 00:08:55.796 --> 00:08:58.034 They are looking at what I've started off on, 00:08:58.034 --> 00:09:01.588 on these more asymmetrical approaches to it, 00:09:01.588 --> 00:09:04.290 more modernist views, cause and effect. 00:09:04.290 --> 00:09:07.067 But mistakes of the past are inevitable. 00:09:07.067 --> 00:09:08.567 It's human nature. 00:09:08.567 --> 00:09:12.303 The fear and the pressure to do something on them 00:09:12.303 --> 00:09:14.583 is going to be immense. They are going to make mistakes. 00:09:14.583 --> 00:09:18.228 They're not just going to be smart. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:18.228 --> 00:09:21.542 There was a famous Irish terrorist who once summed up 00:09:21.542 --> 00:09:24.597 the point very beautifully. He said, 00:09:24.597 --> 00:09:26.709 "The thing is, about the British government, is, is that it's got 00:09:26.709 --> 00:09:31.173 to be lucky all the time, and we only have to be lucky once." NOTE Paragraph 00:09:31.173 --> 00:09:34.413 So what we need to do is we have to affect it. 00:09:34.413 --> 00:09:37.169 We've got to start thinking about being more proactive. 00:09:37.169 --> 00:09:41.857 We need to build an arsenal of noncombative weapons 00:09:41.857 --> 00:09:43.478 in this war on terrorism. 00:09:43.478 --> 00:09:51.926 But of course, it's ideas -- is not something that governments do very well. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:51.926 --> 00:09:56.105 I want to go back just to before the bang, to this idea of 00:09:56.105 --> 00:10:00.299 brand, and I was talking about Coke and Pepsi, etc. 00:10:00.299 --> 00:10:04.210 We see it as terrorism versus democracy in that brand war. 00:10:04.210 --> 00:10:06.231 They'll see it as freedom fighters and truth 00:10:06.231 --> 00:10:13.454 against injustice, imperialism, etc. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:13.454 --> 00:10:17.445 We do have to see this as a deadly battlefield. 00:10:17.445 --> 00:10:20.619 It's not just [our] flesh and blood they want. 00:10:20.619 --> 00:10:23.492 They actually want our cultural souls, and that's why 00:10:23.492 --> 00:10:27.503 the brand analogy is a very interesting way of looking at this. 00:10:27.503 --> 00:10:32.083 If we look at al Qaeda. Al Qaeda was essentially 00:10:32.083 --> 00:10:36.623 a product on a shelf in a souk somewhere 00:10:36.623 --> 00:10:38.762 which not many people had heard of. 00:10:38.762 --> 00:10:42.926 9/11 launched it. It was its big marketing day, 00:10:42.926 --> 00:10:47.795 and it was packaged for the 21st century. They knew what they were doing. 00:10:47.795 --> 00:10:51.723 They were effectively [doing] something in this brand image 00:10:51.723 --> 00:10:54.907 of creating a brand which can be franchised around 00:10:54.907 --> 00:11:00.567 the world, where there's poverty, ignorance and injustice. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:00.567 --> 00:11:04.630 We, as I've said, have got to hit that market, 00:11:04.630 --> 00:11:08.089 but we've got to use our heads rather than our might. 00:11:08.089 --> 00:11:11.863 If we perceive it in this way as a brand, or other ways of thinking at it like this, 00:11:11.863 --> 00:11:16.302 we will not resolve or counter terrorism. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:16.302 --> 00:11:19.662 What I'd like to do is just briefly go through a few examples 00:11:19.662 --> 00:11:25.093 from my work on areas where we try and approach these things differently. 00:11:25.093 --> 00:11:28.782 The first one has been dubbed "lawfare," 00:11:28.782 --> 00:11:31.224 for want of a better word. 00:11:31.224 --> 00:11:35.424 When we originally looked at bringing civil actions against terrorists, 00:11:35.424 --> 00:11:37.790 everyone thought we were a bit mad and mavericks 00:11:37.790 --> 00:11:41.554 and crackpots. Now it's got a title. Everyone's doing it. 00:11:41.554 --> 00:11:43.167 There's a bomb, people start suing. 00:11:43.167 --> 00:11:46.858 But one of the first early cases on this was the Omagh Bombing. 00:11:46.858 --> 00:11:50.597 A civil action was brought from 1998. 00:11:50.597 --> 00:11:54.005 In Omagh, bomb went off, Real IRA, 00:11:54.005 --> 00:11:56.220 middle of a peace process. 00:11:56.220 --> 00:12:00.363 That meant that the culprits couldn't really be prosecuted 00:12:00.363 --> 00:12:03.611 for lots of reasons, mostly to do with the peace process 00:12:03.611 --> 00:12:05.828 and what was going on, the greater good. 00:12:05.828 --> 00:12:08.323 It also meant, then, if you can imagine this, 00:12:08.323 --> 00:12:10.626 that the people who bombed your children 00:12:10.626 --> 00:12:15.983 and your husbands were walking around the supermarket 00:12:15.983 --> 00:12:17.667 that you lived in. 00:12:17.667 --> 00:12:21.429 Some of those victims said enough is enough. 00:12:21.429 --> 00:12:24.863 We brought a private action, and thank God, 10 years later, 00:12:24.863 --> 00:12:27.458 we actually won it. There is a slight appeal on 00:12:27.458 --> 00:12:29.273 at the moment so I have to be a bit careful, 00:12:29.273 --> 00:12:31.375 but I'm fairly confident. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:31.390 --> 00:12:33.009 Why was it effective? 00:12:33.009 --> 00:12:35.646 It was effective not just because justice was seen to be done 00:12:35.646 --> 00:12:37.385 where there was a huge void. 00:12:37.385 --> 00:12:42.011 It was because the Real IRA and other terrorist groups, 00:12:42.011 --> 00:12:44.090 their whole strength is from the fact that they are 00:12:44.090 --> 00:12:48.836 an underdog. When we put the victims as the underdog 00:12:48.836 --> 00:12:51.976 and flipped it, they didn't know what to do. 00:12:51.976 --> 00:12:56.227 They were embarrassed. Their recruitment went down. 00:12:56.227 --> 00:13:00.515 The bombs actually stopped -- fact -- because of this action. 00:13:00.515 --> 00:13:04.220 We became, or those victims became, more importantly, 00:13:04.220 --> 00:13:08.196 a ghost that haunted the terrorist organization. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:08.196 --> 00:13:10.995 There's other examples. We have a case called Almog 00:13:10.995 --> 00:13:15.187 which is to do with a bank that was, 00:13:15.187 --> 00:13:18.193 allegedly, from our point of view, 00:13:18.193 --> 00:13:22.108 giving rewards to suicide bombers. 00:13:22.108 --> 00:13:25.116 Just by bringing the very action, 00:13:25.116 --> 00:13:27.627 that bank has stopped doing it, and indeed, 00:13:27.627 --> 00:13:30.031 the powers that be around the world, which for real politic 00:13:30.031 --> 00:13:33.374 reasons before, couldn't actually deal with this issue, 00:13:33.374 --> 00:13:34.904 because there was lots of competing interests, 00:13:34.904 --> 00:13:37.888 have actually closed down those loopholes in the banking system. 00:13:37.888 --> 00:13:40.603 There's another case called the McDonald case, 00:13:40.603 --> 00:13:44.925 where some victims of Semtex, of the Provisional IRA bombings, 00:13:44.925 --> 00:13:51.544 which were supplied by Gaddafi, sued, 00:13:51.544 --> 00:13:56.481 and that action has led to amazing things for new Libya. 00:13:56.481 --> 00:13:59.434 New Libya has been compassionate towards those victims, 00:13:59.434 --> 00:14:03.066 and started taking it -- so it started a whole new dialogue there. 00:14:03.066 --> 00:14:07.349 But the problem is, we need more and more support 00:14:07.349 --> 00:14:10.151 for these ideas and cases. NOTE Paragraph 00:14:10.151 --> 00:14:14.577 Civil affairs and civil society initiatives. 00:14:14.577 --> 00:14:17.104 A good one is in Somalia. There's a war on piracy. 00:14:17.104 --> 00:14:18.910 If anyone thinks you can have a war on piracy 00:14:18.910 --> 00:14:21.536 like a war on terrorism and beat it, you're wrong. 00:14:21.536 --> 00:14:24.523 What we're trying to do there is turn pirates to fisherman. 00:14:24.523 --> 00:14:26.747 They used to be fisherman, of course, 00:14:26.747 --> 00:14:29.943 but we stole their fish and dumped a load of toxic waste 00:14:29.943 --> 00:14:33.238 in their water, so what we're trying to do is create 00:14:33.238 --> 00:14:35.724 security and employment by bringing a coastguard 00:14:35.724 --> 00:14:39.061 along with the fisheries industry, and I can guarantee you, 00:14:39.061 --> 00:14:41.925 as that builds, al Shabaab and such likes will not have 00:14:41.925 --> 00:14:45.749 the poverty and injustice any longer to prey on those people. 00:14:45.749 --> 00:14:49.624 These initiatives cost less than a missile, 00:14:49.624 --> 00:14:52.591 and certainly less than any soldier's life, 00:14:52.591 --> 00:14:55.446 but more importantly, it takes the war to their homelands, 00:14:55.446 --> 00:14:57.744 and not onto our shore, 00:14:57.744 --> 00:14:59.188 and we're looking at the causes. NOTE Paragraph 00:14:59.188 --> 00:15:02.637 The last one I wanted to talk about was dialogue. 00:15:02.637 --> 00:15:05.443 The advantages of dialogue are obvious. 00:15:05.443 --> 00:15:09.745 It self-educates both sides, enables a better understanding, 00:15:09.745 --> 00:15:11.967 reveals the strengths and weaknesses, 00:15:11.967 --> 00:15:14.568 and yes, like some of the speakers before, 00:15:14.568 --> 00:15:18.457 the shared vulnerability does lead to trust, and 00:15:18.457 --> 00:15:21.362 it does then become, that process, part of normalization. 00:15:21.362 --> 00:15:26.035 But it's not an easy road. After the bomb, 00:15:26.035 --> 00:15:29.164 the victims are not into this. 00:15:29.164 --> 00:15:31.058 There's practical problems. 00:15:31.058 --> 00:15:33.954 It's politically risky for the protagonists 00:15:33.954 --> 00:15:36.689 and for the interlocutors. On one occasion 00:15:36.689 --> 00:15:39.130 I was doing it, every time I did a point that they didn't like, 00:15:39.130 --> 00:15:40.991 they actually threw stones at me, 00:15:40.991 --> 00:15:42.978 and when I did a point they liked, 00:15:42.978 --> 00:15:47.573 they starting shooting in the air, equally not great. (Laughter) 00:15:47.573 --> 00:15:50.775 Whatever the point, it gets to the heart of the problem, 00:15:50.775 --> 00:15:52.891 you're doing it, you're talking to them. NOTE Paragraph 00:15:52.891 --> 00:15:56.634 Now, I just want to end with saying, if we follow reason, 00:15:56.634 --> 00:16:01.996 we realize that I think we'd all say that we want to 00:16:01.996 --> 00:16:04.678 have a perception of terrorism which is not just a pure 00:16:04.678 --> 00:16:08.427 military perception of it. 00:16:08.446 --> 00:16:10.903 We need to foster more 00:16:10.903 --> 00:16:13.688 modern and asymmetrical responses to it. 00:16:13.688 --> 00:16:16.243 This isn't about being soft on terrorism. 00:16:16.243 --> 00:16:19.963 It's about fighting them on contemporary battlefields. 00:16:19.963 --> 00:16:22.914 We must foster innovation, as I've said. 00:16:22.914 --> 00:16:26.786 Governments are receptive. It won't come from those dusty corridors. 00:16:26.786 --> 00:16:28.999 The private sector has a role. 00:16:28.999 --> 00:16:31.572 The role we could do right now is going away 00:16:31.572 --> 00:16:35.297 and looking at how we can support victims around the world 00:16:35.297 --> 00:16:36.769 to bring initiatives. NOTE Paragraph 00:16:36.769 --> 00:16:39.572 If I was to leave you with some big questions here which 00:16:39.572 --> 00:16:43.047 may change one's perception to it, and who knows what 00:16:43.047 --> 00:16:45.426 thoughts and responses will come out of it, 00:16:45.426 --> 00:16:49.381 but did myself and my terrorist group actually need 00:16:49.381 --> 00:16:52.617 to blow you up to make our point? 00:16:52.617 --> 00:16:56.999 We have to ask ourselves these questions, however unpalatable. 00:16:56.999 --> 00:17:00.133 Have we been ignoring an injustice or a humanitarian 00:17:00.133 --> 00:17:02.898 struggle somewhere in the world? 00:17:02.898 --> 00:17:05.548 What if, actually, engagement on poverty and injustice 00:17:05.548 --> 00:17:07.963 is exactly what the terrorists wanted us to do? 00:17:07.963 --> 00:17:11.068 What if the bombs are just simply wake-up calls for us? 00:17:11.068 --> 00:17:14.267 What happens if that bomb went off 00:17:14.267 --> 00:17:17.574 because we didn't have any thoughts and things in place 00:17:17.574 --> 00:17:22.253 to allow dialogue to deal with these things and interaction? NOTE Paragraph 00:17:22.253 --> 00:17:25.420 What is definitely uncontroversial 00:17:25.420 --> 00:17:27.227 is that, as I've said, we've got to stop being reactive, 00:17:27.227 --> 00:17:30.844 and more proactive, and I just want to leave you 00:17:30.844 --> 00:17:34.252 with one idea, which is that 00:17:34.252 --> 00:17:37.412 it's a provocative question for you to think about, 00:17:37.412 --> 00:17:41.533 and the answer will require sympathy with the devil. 00:17:41.533 --> 00:17:44.250 It's a question that's been tackled by many great thinkers 00:17:44.250 --> 00:17:49.167 and writers: What if society actually needs crisis to change? 00:17:49.167 --> 00:17:53.470 What if society actually needs terrorism 00:17:53.470 --> 00:17:55.013 to change and adapt for the better? 00:17:55.013 --> 00:17:59.564 It's those Bulgakov themes, it's that picture of Jesus 00:17:59.564 --> 00:18:02.768 and the Devil hand in hand in Gethsemane 00:18:02.768 --> 00:18:05.048 walking into the moonlight. 00:18:05.048 --> 00:18:07.896 What it would mean is that humans, 00:18:07.896 --> 00:18:10.552 in order to survive in development, 00:18:10.552 --> 00:18:12.627 quite Darwinian spirit here, 00:18:12.627 --> 00:18:16.957 inherently must dance with the devil. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:16.957 --> 00:18:21.216 A lot of people say that communism was defeated 00:18:21.216 --> 00:18:25.210 by the Rolling Stones. It's a good theory. 00:18:25.210 --> 00:18:28.046 Maybe the Rolling Stones has a place in this. 00:18:28.046 --> 00:18:30.633 Thank you. 00:18:30.633 --> 00:18:39.503 (Music) (Applause) 00:18:39.503 --> 00:18:42.081 Bruno Giussani: Thank you. (Applause)