WEBVTT 00:00:01.935 --> 00:00:03.956 [ MUSIC... ] 00:00:10.646 --> 00:00:15.519 [ Leah ] I don't want to ever have sex with anyone, but another chronically ill or disabled person ever again. 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:19.362 Like, I'm just so into like the crip lust moment. 00:00:19.362 --> 00:00:21.747 I'm just like, oh god, it's such a relief. 00:00:25.713 --> 00:00:28.922 Loving and having really good sex in a very broadly defined way 00:00:28.922 --> 00:00:31.680 with another disabled or chronically ill person 00:00:31.680 --> 00:00:35.450 where you're lusting towards each other in a sexual fashion. 00:00:38.974 --> 00:00:42.592 [ Ellery ] Leah and I have both been writing down all, a lot of our crip sex moments 00:00:42.592 --> 00:00:44.078 [ Leah ] The first thing that comes to my mind 00:00:44.078 --> 00:00:47.980 is when like, my lover at the time and me were at this like queer club night 00:00:47.980 --> 00:00:50.546 and they like threw me up against the wall and we were making out 00:00:50.546 --> 00:00:52.713 and then we both lost our balance at the same time 00:00:52.713 --> 00:00:55.292 and we totally fell over on to the ground 00:00:55.292 --> 00:00:58.461 on to the ass of my best friend who had been hit by a car a year ago, 00:00:58.461 --> 00:00:59.664 so then she fell over. 00:00:59.664 --> 00:01:03.187 So, we're all on the floor in this writhing mass of disabled bodies 00:01:03.187 --> 00:01:04.900 and it was really great. [ Laughing ] 00:01:04.900 --> 00:01:09.859 [ E ] I've had a disability for 14 years and I've dated a lot of people [ *both laughing* ]. 00:01:09.859 --> 00:01:11.340 I've been in... 00:01:11.340 --> 00:01:13.210 well, I've had a lot of primary partners, 00:01:13.210 --> 00:01:16.813 but none of them have lasted more than like 2 years or so. 00:01:16.813 --> 00:01:21.119 And so, in between there's been a lot of like dating of different kinds of people, 00:01:21.119 --> 00:01:25.216 I've dated a lot of different people with disabilities... 00:01:25.216 --> 00:01:27.814 like... and really, really different disabilities than me. 00:01:27.814 --> 00:01:28.691 Like, I've never... 00:01:28.691 --> 00:01:31.293 well, ok, once I dated someone who was also an amputee. 00:01:31.293 --> 00:01:34.701 And so when I think of crip sex, I think about things like sex... 00:01:34.701 --> 00:01:39.844 The sex can sometimes be the same, it's really not that different; 00:01:39.844 --> 00:01:42.540 and then sometimes it can be really, really different. 00:01:42.540 --> 00:01:48.846 Like... you don't feel in your body from here all the way down your entire body, 00:01:48.846 --> 00:01:54.651 and you have a catheter and a leg bag with urine in it and that's in the bed with us. 00:01:54.651 --> 00:01:58.536 Um, and, oh I kiss you in the elevator and oops, 00:01:58.536 --> 00:02:02.292 the force of me kissing you knocks you over in your wheelchair, 00:02:02.292 --> 00:02:07.641 and then you're on the ground and then we have to figure out how to transfer you back in to your wheelchair. 00:02:07.641 --> 00:02:08.904 Like all that kind of stuff. 00:02:08.904 --> 00:02:14.213 And then there's the parts where I have like a new partner and they're not disabled, 00:02:14.213 --> 00:02:16.838 because I've dated a lot of people who aren't disabled, 00:02:16.838 --> 00:02:20.813 and, y'know, it's like they don't know how my legs work 00:02:20.813 --> 00:02:25.088 and I have to explain how my legs work because my legs come off. 00:02:25.114 --> 00:02:27.155 Um, and usually that's not a big deal. 00:02:27.155 --> 00:02:35.884 It's only been like, I feel like I've only really dated one person who wasn't really comfortable with my disability, you know. 00:02:35.884 --> 00:02:42.213 She was like um, *oh, hospitals, they just make me feel uncomfortable; I just don't like them.* 00:02:42.213 --> 00:02:45.836 And I was like, wow, I've spent a lot of time in hospitals, 00:02:45.836 --> 00:02:47.788 they're kind of my home away from home 00:02:47.788 --> 00:02:51.423 just because I've had to spend so much time in them for my own appointments and stuff. 00:02:51.423 --> 00:02:53.952 And so, I was like, *that's cool,* 00:02:53.952 --> 00:02:55.819 *I think we're just in a really different place.* 00:02:55.819 --> 00:02:57.554 She also bicycled a lot 00:02:57.554 --> 00:03:00.453 and like would go on like these 40 mile bike trips and I just couldn't relate. 00:03:00.453 --> 00:03:02.020 [ L ] You were really compatible [ joking ]. 00:03:02.020 --> 00:03:03.983 [ E ] yeah, we were incompatible [ laughing ]. 00:03:03.983 --> 00:03:08.724 But like, on the other hand, like... I'm dating someone right now who bikes a lot, 00:03:08.724 --> 00:03:14.660 but we've had really cool conversations about how that whole bicycling culture can be really alienating 00:03:14.660 --> 00:03:16.376 and they're super awesome about it. 00:03:16.376 --> 00:03:20.742 And like, they don't feel bad when we drive around in my truck, 00:03:20.742 --> 00:03:23.237 like a lot of people have car guilt. 00:03:23.237 --> 00:03:27.118 And, I don't know, when you have a mobility related disability, 00:03:27.118 --> 00:03:29.275 you like kinda have to get over the car guilt. 00:03:29.275 --> 00:03:31.785 And so, we totally make-out in my truck all the time, 00:03:31.785 --> 00:03:34.182 and I have to say, it's pretty great. [ Laughs ]. 00:03:34.797 --> 00:03:37.611 [ L ] When I was 26, like I'd been celibate for a couple years 00:03:37.611 --> 00:03:39.822 because I was dealing with being a sexual abuse survivor 00:03:39.822 --> 00:03:42.555 and then like, I kinda re-broke my virginity 00:03:42.555 --> 00:03:49.432 with this like totally awesome queer man of color who was really perverted, 00:03:49.432 --> 00:03:51.070 who had severe RSI [ *repetitive strain injury* ] 00:03:51.070 --> 00:03:56.660 who was this total, like, black, science fiction, polyamorous geek, porn-maker, 00:03:56.660 --> 00:04:00.542 with like injury stuff and whose primary partner had fibromyalgia too. 00:04:00.542 --> 00:04:05.254 So, not only was I fucking this amazing hot QPOC [ *queer person of colour* ] pervert in leather pants, 00:04:05.254 --> 00:04:07.986 but I was like, *oh my hips just went out!*, and he was like, *yeah, no problem.* 00:04:07.986 --> 00:04:09.786 *Great. Let's just move positions.* 00:04:09.786 --> 00:04:12.121 Y'know, and then there's the stuff that's just like the hard stuff we go through, 00:04:12.121 --> 00:04:15.625 and then also just the really weird stuff that we don't get to talk about. 00:04:15.625 --> 00:04:19.979 Y'know, like, what happens when you lose control of your bowels during sex? [ Laughing ] 00:04:19.979 --> 00:04:24.459 Or like, you know, all kinds of stuff, right? Like, what's it really like? 00:04:28.136 --> 00:04:30.707 [ L ] I think we were talking about the healing of recognition, 00:04:30.707 --> 00:04:32.614 or like, the erotics of recognition? 00:04:32.614 --> 00:04:35.594 [ E ] We talked about the lust of recognition. 00:04:35.594 --> 00:04:37.126 [ L ] The lust of recognition! Yes! 00:04:37.126 --> 00:04:41.795 Like, I don't know, when it's just like, I think it's like any identity stuff, 00:04:41.795 --> 00:04:44.964 Like, I mean, the first time I fucked someone else who was South Asian, and I was like, 00:04:44.964 --> 00:04:47.856 and I mean I know it's corny to talk about "going home", but like, I felt that. 00:04:47.856 --> 00:04:49.561 And there was something really healing about that. 00:04:49.561 --> 00:04:51.930 And like, when I was lovers with David and I was like, 00:04:51.930 --> 00:04:55.772 oh I never have to worry about you being freaked out about me needing to take a break 00:04:55.772 --> 00:04:57.199 because I'm an incest survivor, 00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:00.196 or me needing to like, negotiate my body in different ways. 00:05:00.196 --> 00:05:02.639 Y'know? You don't freak out over that because you're really... 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:04.696 you've dated a lot of crips, you are a crip, 00:05:04.696 --> 00:05:07.023 your primary partner has a whole bunch of chronic illnesses. 00:05:07.023 --> 00:05:10.528 And you're just like, *right, yeah, bodies, work it out.* 00:05:10.528 --> 00:05:12.154 And how amazing that was 00:05:12.154 --> 00:05:17.221 and like, how that crip knowledge was so tied to that persons', like, awareness around consent, 00:05:17.221 --> 00:05:20.691 Y'know? In the middle of being a big pervert who's into a lot of pretty intense SM. 00:05:20.691 --> 00:05:22.530 Y'know, I mean, it was amazing. 00:05:22.530 --> 00:05:24.628 Y'know, it was really, really amazing. 00:05:24.628 --> 00:05:26.462 I felt so lucky; I was so lucky. 00:05:26.462 --> 00:05:31.191 [ E ] Going back to this idea that we were talking about earlier today about the lust of recognition. 00:05:31.191 --> 00:05:36.466 So that was like, you know, I identify a lot with people who use a wheelchair sometimes 00:05:36.466 --> 00:05:40.846 and also walk with a cane or crutches sometimes because that's my experience. 00:05:40.846 --> 00:05:46.349 And so, like, y'know, and so that's like, not every day looks the same in terms of how you get around, 00:05:46.349 --> 00:05:48.856 and I just realize, y'know, I really relate to that, 00:05:48.856 --> 00:05:52.131 obviously, because that's what happens for me. 00:05:52.131 --> 00:05:56.858 Um, but, you know, like... 00:05:56.858 --> 00:05:59.278 y'know... you see this person around, 00:05:59.278 --> 00:06:01.771 you think they're cute, they have a cane, 00:06:01.771 --> 00:06:04.166 there's something hot about that. 00:06:04.166 --> 00:06:07.570 And then, like, y'know, they're pretty nice and they're very cute 00:06:07.570 --> 00:06:12.173 and then, like, some other time like you notice they have a brace, or like... something 00:06:12.173 --> 00:06:17.210 and y'know, and then you get to know them and you realize like you're really attracted to the... 00:06:17.210 --> 00:06:18.272 I mean, for me, anyways. 00:06:18.272 --> 00:06:22.969 I realize I'm really attracted to the fact that like, they're walking with a cane AND they're cute. 00:06:22.969 --> 00:06:25.517 And then you know there's this process I go through: 00:06:25.517 --> 00:06:28.435 like, am I fetishizing their cane? 00:06:28.435 --> 00:06:35.999 Um. And, but, and so...I've kind of been writing about that on and off the last couple of years. 00:06:35.999 --> 00:06:37.838 Cuz it's like... is it a fetish? 00:06:37.838 --> 00:06:40.908 Or is it that I recognize myself in the cane, 00:06:40.908 --> 00:06:43.071 and there's that lust of recognition? 00:06:43.071 --> 00:06:46.471 Like, that, there's something really charged for me, 00:06:46.471 --> 00:06:48.312 where I just crush out. 00:06:48.312 --> 00:06:50.113 I'm just crushed out; it's hot. 00:06:50.113 --> 00:06:54.000 And I just, I don't know, I feel drawn like a magnet to the person. 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:58.687 Y'know, they have to be an awesome person that's also cute in other ways, 00:06:58.687 --> 00:07:00.469 it's not just the cane [ *Leah laughing* ], 00:07:00.469 --> 00:07:01.976 but there's something.... 00:07:01.976 --> 00:07:06.864 It's like this extra electric charge that's like there for me and it's very real. 00:07:06.864 --> 00:07:11.606 And y'know, I don't need to sleep always with people who have disabilities, 00:07:11.606 --> 00:07:17.706 I think that a lot of those experiences have been really powerful, 00:07:17.706 --> 00:07:24.147 but not always lasting, um, and I need to be fed in so many other ways too. 00:07:24.147 --> 00:07:29.366 And so, a lot of my primary relationships have not been with other people with disabilities. 00:07:29.366 --> 00:07:31.001 I feel comfortable with that, 00:07:31.001 --> 00:07:35.688 but I've also dated so many other people with disabilities, I think I've needed this. 00:07:35.688 --> 00:07:38.551 And who's to say what the rest of my life will look like, 00:07:38.551 --> 00:07:43.567 but um yeah, there's something about that lust of recognition, that connection. 00:07:43.567 --> 00:07:45.201 I don't know, there's something... 00:07:45.201 --> 00:07:48.136 and I think it's good to check in with myself, 00:07:48.136 --> 00:07:49.596 like am I fetishizing them? 00:07:49.596 --> 00:07:53.081 but I don't really have a lot of like guilt or weirdness around that, 00:07:53.081 --> 00:07:55.522 because I don't necessarily think that I am. 00:07:55.522 --> 00:07:57.238 [ L ] I wouldn't waste your time. 00:07:57.238 --> 00:07:58.064 [ E ] Yeah. 00:08:00.296 --> 00:08:01.919 [ L ] So when you were like, *"what's crip sex, Leah?"* 00:08:01.919 --> 00:08:03.883 And I was like, well, I think it's crips lusting for other crips. Yes, that. 00:08:03.883 --> 00:08:06.422 And I think what youre were just saying, Ellery, 00:08:06.422 --> 00:08:10.045 makes me think that I think it's any form of sex that involves someone who is disabled. 00:08:10.045 --> 00:08:12.603 So, like, I've had crip sex that was shitty, 00:08:12.603 --> 00:08:16.599 That was like me being a disabled person having sex with a partner who didn't get it. 00:08:16.599 --> 00:08:22.430 Y'know, like, who was just...One of my long-term partners was white, working class, gender queer... 00:08:22.430 --> 00:08:24.112 actually was raised rural poor, 00:08:24.112 --> 00:08:29.815 and y'know, we bonded over class, because I grew up like working class, lower middle class; 00:08:29.815 --> 00:08:31.346 a lot of working class. 00:08:31.346 --> 00:08:33.946 And we both identified as being people who were less than middle class 00:08:33.946 --> 00:08:36.550 in movements that were very middle class. 00:08:36.550 --> 00:08:39.042 And y'know, I really got where she was coming from, 00:08:39.042 --> 00:08:41.891 because she was like, *yeah, y'know, we don't admit disability!* 00:08:41.891 --> 00:08:44.527 *we just tough it out, 'cause we don't have that option!* 00:08:44.527 --> 00:08:46.244 And I was like, totally, yeah. 00:08:46.244 --> 00:08:50.410 My mom had polio and they didn't have money for health care, 00:08:50.410 --> 00:08:55.448 so her doctor that she saw -true story- was like, *here's a bicycle, ride it out.* 00:08:55.448 --> 00:08:58.181 And my mom [ *Ellery laughing *]... no, seriously. 00:08:58.181 --> 00:08:59.542 [ E ] Wow. 00:08:59.542 --> 00:09:05.152 [ L ] Yeah. And my mom y'know worked two or three jobs the whole time that I knew her, 00:09:05.152 --> 00:09:08.001 and it was only when I was older that I was like, 00:09:08.001 --> 00:09:14.393 oh she can't really walk that far, without being in a lot of pain, but she would never identify as disabled. 00:09:14.393 --> 00:09:16.707 Anyway, so back to my girlfriend: 00:09:16.707 --> 00:09:20.230 Like, I got that she was like, *Whatever! We just tough it out! No problem!* 00:09:20.230 --> 00:09:21.963 I mean, she had worked construction and she'd be like, 00:09:21.963 --> 00:09:25.844 *Yeah I got a nail gun through my finger, I just kept going!* [ Laughing ]. 00:09:25.844 --> 00:09:28.062 Yeah, that was a fascinating relationship. 00:09:28.062 --> 00:09:31.276 But, um, y'know, the sex that I had with that person was crip sex because I was in it, 00:09:31.276 --> 00:09:35.017 but it wasn't necessarily crip-accepting sex and that's what a lot of us have too. 00:09:35.017 --> 00:09:39.476 I guess Im trying to spin something off of what you said about like expanding your idea of sex. 00:09:39.476 --> 00:09:43.120 Y'know, and like, I don't know, I mean I get what youre saying that like... 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:45.558 when Audre Lorde is like, *the uses of the erotic*.. 00:09:45.558 --> 00:09:48.602 and I'm like, ok, but sometimes y'know, Audre, you like to cum too, right? 00:09:48.602 --> 00:09:52.761 Like It wasn't just like, *I feel really turned on about liberation and shit*. [ Laughing ] 00:09:52.761 --> 00:09:58.199 But like, so that's real, but at the same time I do think that there's a lot about that's important 00:09:58.199 --> 00:10:00.469 about just expanding our concepts of sexuality 00:10:00.469 --> 00:10:03.660 and I think that crips have to do that so much anyway when our bodies are different. 00:10:03.660 --> 00:10:07.193 One thing that we're trying to do with this project of writing Crip Sex Stories is like... 00:10:07.193 --> 00:10:11.404 ...I don't know, I kind of think of it as like: the good, the bad, the ugly and the real, y'know? 00:10:11.646 --> 00:10:14.116 Because I feel like there's the good stuff, 00:10:14.116 --> 00:10:15.662 that's like the secrets of like, 00:10:15.662 --> 00:10:18.296 wow, y'know, the ways that we find to have really amazing hot sex in our bodies 00:10:18.296 --> 00:10:23.159 is incredible and like the kind of like cross-crip solidarity through fucking. 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:25.286 Like, maybe you're fucking someone who has your exact disability; 00:10:25.286 --> 00:10:27.355 maybe they have a different one? 00:10:27.355 --> 00:10:29.066 But like even though you don't have the same experience, 00:10:29.066 --> 00:10:31.669 you're giving each other love and appreciation 00:10:31.669 --> 00:10:33.554 and you're like, wow you're really fucking hot 00:10:33.554 --> 00:10:36.723 and I'm gonna figure out how to make you feel pleasure in your body 00:10:36.723 --> 00:10:37.723 and I'm gonna respect your body 00:10:37.723 --> 00:10:40.159 and you're gonna do the same thing, awesome. 00:10:41.114 --> 00:10:43.211 [ music...]