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[ MUSIC... ]

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[ Leah ] I don't want to ever have sex with anyone, but another chronically ill or disabled person ever again.

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Like, I'm just so into like the crip lust moment.

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I'm just like, oh god, it's such a relief.

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Loving and having really good sex [br]in a very broadly defined way

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with another disabled or chronically ill person

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where you're lusting towards each other [br]in a sexual fashion.

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[ Ellery ] Leah and I have both been writing down all, a lot of our crip sex moments

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[ Leah ] The first thing that comes to my mind

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is when like, my lover at the time and me were at this like queer club night

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and they like threw me up against the wall [br]and we were making out

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and then we both lost our balance at the same time

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and we totally fell over on to the ground

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on to the ass of my best friend who had been hit by a car a year ago,

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so then she fell over.

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So, we're all on the floor in this writhing mass of disabled bodies

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and it was really great. [ <i>Laughing</i> ]

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[ E ] I've had a disability for 14 years [br]and I've dated a lot of people [ *both laughing* ].

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I've been in...

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well, I've had a lot of primary partners,

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but none of them have lasted more than like 2 years or so.

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And so, in between there's been a lot of like dating of different kinds of people,

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I've dated a lot of different people with disabilities...

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like... and really, really different disabilities than me.

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Like, I've never...

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well, ok, once I dated someone who was also an amputee.

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And so when I think of crip sex, I think about things like sex...

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The sex can sometimes be the same, it's really not that different;

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and then sometimes it can be really, really different.

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Like... you don't feel in your body [br]from here all the way down your entire body,

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and you have a catheter and a leg bag with urine in it and that's in the bed with us.

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Um, and, oh I kiss you in the elevator and oops,

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the force of me kissing you knocks you over in your wheelchair,

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and then you're on the ground and then we have to figure out how to transfer you back in to your wheelchair.

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Like all that kind of stuff.

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And then there's the parts where [br]I have like a new partner and they're not disabled,

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because I've dated a lot of people who aren't disabled,

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and, y'know, it's like [br]they don't know how my legs work

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and I have to explain how my legs work [br]because my legs come off.

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Um, and usually that's not a big deal.

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It's only been like, I feel like I've only really dated one person who wasn't really comfortable with my disability, you know.

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She was like um, *oh, hospitals, they just make me feel uncomfortable; I just don't like them.*

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And I was like, wow, I've spent a lot of time in hospitals,

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they're kind of my home away from home

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just because I've had to spend so much time in them [br]for my own appointments and stuff.

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And so, I was like, *that's cool,*

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*I think we're just in a really different place.*

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She also bicycled a lot

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and like would go on like these 40 mile bike trips [br]and I just couldn't relate.

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[ L ] You were really compatible [ <i>joking</i> ].

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[ E ] yeah, we were incompatible [ <i>laughing</i> ].

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But like, on the other hand, like... [br]I'm dating someone right now who bikes a lot,

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but we've had really cool conversations about how that whole bicycling culture can be really alienating

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and they're super awesome about it.

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And like, they don't feel bad [br]when we drive around in my truck,

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like a lot of people have car guilt.

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And, I don't know, when you have a [br]mobility related disability,

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you like kinda have to get over the car guilt.

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And so, we totally make-out in my truck all the time,

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and I have to say, it's pretty great. [ <i>Laughs</i> ].

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[ L ] When I was 26, like I'd been celibate for a couple years

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because I was dealing with being a sexual abuse survivor

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and then like, I kinda re-broke my virginity

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with this like totally awesome queer man of color [br]who was really perverted,

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who had severe RSI [ *repetitive strain injury* ]

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who was this total, like, black, science fiction, polyamorous geek, porn-maker,

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with like injury stuff [br]and whose primary partner had fibromyalgia too.

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So, not only was I fucking this amazing hot [br]QPOC [ *queer person of colour* ] pervert in leather pants,

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but I was like, *oh my hips just went out!*, [br]and he was like, *yeah, no problem.*

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*Great. Let's just move positions.*

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Y'know, and then there's the stuff [br]that's just like the hard stuff we go through,

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and then also just the really weird stuff [br]that we don't get to talk about.

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Y'know, like, what happens when you lose control [br]of your bowels during sex? [ <i>Laughing</i> ]

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Or like, you know, all kinds of stuff, right? [br]Like, what's it really like?

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[ L ] I think we were talking about the healing of recognition,

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or like, the erotics of recognition?

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[ E ] We talked about the lust of recognition.

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[ L ] The lust of recognition! Yes!

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Like, I don't know, when it's just like, [br]I think it's like any identity stuff,

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Like, I mean, the first time I fucked someone else [br]who was South Asian, and I was like,

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and I mean I know it's corny to talk about "going home", but like, I felt that.

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And there was something really healing about that.

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And like, when I was lovers with David and I was like,

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oh I never have to worry about you being freaked out [br]about me needing to take a break

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because I'm an incest survivor,

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or me needing to like, negotiate my body in different ways.

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Y'know? You don't freak out over that [br]because you're really...

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you've dated a lot of crips, you <i>are</i> a crip,

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your primary partner has a whole bunch [br]of chronic illnesses.

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And you're just like, *right, yeah, bodies, work it out.*

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And how amazing that was

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and like, how that crip knowledge was so tied to that persons', like, awareness around consent,

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Y'know? In the middle of being a big pervert who's into a lot of pretty intense SM.

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Y'know, I mean, it was amazing.

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Y'know, it was really, really amazing.

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I felt so lucky; I was so lucky.

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[ E ] Going back to this idea that we were talking about earlier today about the lust of recognition.

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So that was like, you know, I identify a lot [br]with people who use a wheelchair sometimes

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and also walk with a cane or crutches sometimes [br]because that's my experience.

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And so, like, y'know, and so that's like, [br]not every day looks the same in terms of how you get around,

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and I just realize, y'know, I really relate to that,

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obviously, because that's what happens for me.

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Um, but, you know, like...

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y'know... [br]you see this person around,

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you think they're cute, they have a cane,

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there's something hot about that.

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And then, like, y'know, [br]they're pretty nice and they're very cute

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and then, like, some other time like you notice they have a brace, or like... something

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and y'know, and then you get to know them and you realize like you're really attracted to the...

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I mean, for me, anyways.

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I realize <i>I'm</i> really attracted to the fact that like, [br]they're walking with a cane AND they're cute.

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And then you know there's this process I go through:

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like, am I fetishizing their cane?

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Um. And, but, and so...I've kind of been writing about that on and off the last couple of years.

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Cuz it's like... is it a fetish?

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Or is it that I recognize myself in the cane,

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and there's that lust of recognition?

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Like, that, there's something really charged for me,

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where I just crush out.

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I'm just crushed out; it's hot.

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And I just, I don't know, I feel drawn like a magnet to the person.

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Y'know, they have to be an awesome person [br]that's also cute in other ways,

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it's not just the cane [ *Leah laughing* ],

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but there's something....

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It's like this extra electric charge [br]that's like there for me and it's very real.

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And y'know, I don't need to sleep always [br]with people who have disabilities,

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I think that a lot of those experiences [br]have been really powerful,

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but not always lasting, um, [br]and I need to be fed in so many other ways too.

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And so, a lot of my primary relationships have not been with other people with disabilities.

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I feel comfortable with that,

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but I've also dated so many other people with disabilities, I think I've needed this.

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And who's to say [br]what the rest of my life will look like,

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but um yeah, there's something about that lust of recognition, that connection.

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I don't know, there's something...

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and I think it's good to check in with myself,

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like am I fetishizing them?

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but I don't really have a lot of like [br]guilt or weirdness around that,

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because I don't necessarily think that I am.

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[ L ] I wouldn't waste your time.

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[ E ] Yeah.

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[ L ] So when you were like, *"what's crip sex, Leah?"*

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And I was like, well, I think it's crips lusting for other crips. Yes, that.

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And I think what youre were just saying, Ellery,

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makes me think that I think it's any form of sex that involves someone who is disabled.

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So, like, I've had crip sex that was shitty,

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That was like me being a disabled person [br]having sex with a partner who didn't get it.

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Y'know, like, who was just...One of my long-term partners was white, working class, gender queer...

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actually was raised rural poor,

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and y'know, we bonded over class, because I grew up like working class, lower middle class;

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a lot of working class.

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And we both identified as being people who were less than middle class

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in movements that were very middle class.

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And y'know, I really got where she was coming from,

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because she was like, *yeah, y'know, we don't admit disability!*

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*we just tough it out, 'cause we don't have that option!*

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And I was like, totally, yeah.

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My mom had polio [br]and they didn't have money for health care,

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so her doctor that she saw -true story- was like, *here's a bicycle, ride it out.*

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And my mom [ *Ellery laughing *]... no, seriously.

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[ E ] Wow.

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[ L ] Yeah. And my mom y'know worked two or three jobs the whole time that I knew her,

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and it was only when I was older that I was like,

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oh she can't really walk that far, without being in a lot of pain, but she would never identify as disabled.

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Anyway, so back to my girlfriend:

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Like, I got that she was like, [br]*Whatever! We just tough it out! No problem!*

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I mean, she had worked construction and she'd be like,

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*Yeah I got a nail gun through my finger, I just kept going!* [ <i>Laughing</i> ].

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Yeah, that was a fascinating relationship.

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But, um, y'know, the sex that I had with that person [br]was crip sex because I was in it,

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but it wasn't necessarily crip-accepting sex [br]and that's what a lot of us have too.

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I guess Im trying to spin something off of what you said about like expanding your idea of sex.

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Y'know, and like, I don't know, [br]I mean I get what youre saying that like...

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when Audre Lorde is like, *the uses of the erotic*..

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and I'm like, ok, but sometimes y'know, Audre, [br]you like to cum too, right?

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Like It wasn't just like, *I feel really turned on about liberation and shit*. [ <i>Laughing</i> ]

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But like, so that's real, but at the same time I do think that there's a lot about that's important

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about just expanding our concepts of sexuality

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and I think that crips have to do that so much anyway [br]when our bodies are different.

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One thing that we're trying to do with this project [br]of writing Crip Sex Stories is like...

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...I don't know, I kind of think of it as like: the good, the bad, the ugly and the real, y'know?

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Because I feel like there's the good stuff,

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that's like the secrets of like,

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wow, y'know, the ways that we find [br]to have really amazing hot sex in our bodies

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is incredible and like the kind of like [br]cross-crip solidarity through fucking.

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Like, maybe you're fucking someone who has [br]your exact disability;

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maybe they have a different one?

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But like even though you don't have the same experience,

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you're giving each other love and appreciation

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and you're like, wow you're really fucking hot

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and I'm gonna figure out how to [br]make you feel pleasure in your body

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and I'm gonna respect your body

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and you're gonna do the same thing, awesome.

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[ <i>music</i>...]