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民主

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活喺西方社會嘅我哋犯咗個好大嘅錯

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就係視民主理所當然

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雖然民主係一朵最脆弱嘅花

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但我哋冇將民主視為一朵最脆弱嘅花

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我哋反而視佢為社會嘅擺設品

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我哋往往覺得佢係必然嘅

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我哋以為資本主義會帶嚟民主

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但唔係

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新加坡前總理李光耀
同埋北京一班好似佢咁嘅人

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說服到人

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繁華嘅資本市場同顯著嘅增長

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係絕對可以出現喺極權政體裏面

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事實上，民主喺歐洲一帶倒退緊

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今年初，我代表希臘

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代表當時啱啱新選出嘅希臘政府

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以財長身份出席歐元集團會議

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我被清楚告知

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希臘嘅民主進程、我哋嘅選舉

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唔可以干預

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希臘即將被落實嘅經濟政策

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當時我覺得李光耀或者中國共產黨

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都唔會有更加好嘅辯護藉口

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而且有幾個固執嘅朋友不斷同我講

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如果民主真係可以改變任何嘢

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民主就會被打壓

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今晚喺度，我想同你哋講

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一個真正民主社會底下嘅經濟情況

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我想請大家同我一齊再次睇清楚

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李光耀、中國共產黨同埋歐元集團

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以為我哋可以分配民主

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但我哋真正要嘅

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係一個真正、多人參與嘅民主

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冇咗民主，我哋社會會唔掂

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未來會暗淡，新科技亦都會浪費

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講起浪費

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等我指出一個好有趣
會要脅我哋經濟嘅悖論

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我叫佢做「雙峰悖論」

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第一個峰你哋知道嘅

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就係喺美國，歐洲，以至全球

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債台高築構成長期陰霾

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我哋知道有好多債務

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但好少人意識到佢有個孖生兄弟

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一座由有錢人同大機構嘅閑置資金
砌出嚟嘅山峰

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佢哋唔夠膽投資佢哋嘅存款
去一啲製造營利嘅生產活動度

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呢啲生產活動其實可以償還債務

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仲可以製造人類急需要用嘅嘢

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例如可再生能源

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依家，我想講兩個數字

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喺過去三個月入面

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我哋喺美國，英國同歐元區
各種可以製造財富嘅商品

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總共投資咗 3.4 萬億美元

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好似有工廠、機械廠、寫字樓

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學校、道路、鐵路、機械等

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3.4 萬億美元聽落好似好多錢

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直至你攞佢同 5.1 萬億美元比較

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呢一筆 5.1 萬億嘅資金

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喺同一批國家嘅金融機構裏面

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除咗加劇股票市場通脹

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令房價上升之外

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喺同一期間就再冇發揮過任何作用

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所以呢，一座債務嘅山
同一座閑置現金嘅山

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形成兩座山峰

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兩者都冇通過正常市場運作抵消對方

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結果造成薪酬停滯

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喺美國，日本同歐洲

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就有超過四分之一
介乎 25 至 54 歲嘅人冇工做

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跟住，經濟總需求就會
進入永無止境嘅減退周期

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令投資者對前景更悲觀

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投資者怕咗低需求量
於是唔再投資

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就好似伊底帕斯王嘅老竇

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被神預言佢個仔大個之後會殺死佢

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佢好驚

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但佢亦無意中營造咗被殺嘅條件出嚟

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令佢個仔伊底帕斯王真係殺咗佢

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呢個就係我對資本主義嘅爭論

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資本主義造成浪費

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資本主義之下閑置嘅錢早就應該

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用嚟提高人類生活水平、發展人才

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同埋資助開發可再生能源科技

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呢啲科技對保護地球好重要

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咁民主可唔可以扭轉呢一切？

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我相信得

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但行動之前，我哋要知究竟咩係民主

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亞里士多德定義民主做︰

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當自由嘅人同窮人
佔體制大多數控制政府

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當然，雅典時代嘅民主
將太多人排除在外

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當中包括女人、移民、奴隸

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但係，如果因為呢啲被排除嘅人

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而忽視古雅典民主嘅成功之處

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咁係錯嘅

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雅典民主裏邊更值得肯定嘅係

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而且就算時至今日仍然值得肯定嘅係

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佢囊括埋勞動階級

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令佢哋唔單止有言論自由嘅權利

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更重要、更重要嘅係
佢哋有權批評政治

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而且佢哋嘅意見
對國家決策係同等重要

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古雅典民主持續咗唔係好耐

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就好似一枝好光嘅蠟燭好快就燒完

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的而且確

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現今嘅自由民主唔係嚟自古雅典

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佢哋源自 1688 年
光榮革命時期嘅美國憲法

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或者嚟自大憲章

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而雅典民主關注嘅係普通平民

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授權予貧苦勞動階級

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我哋嘅自由民主
建立喺大憲章嘅傳統上面

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但點都好，大憲章都係有錢人嘅憲章

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當政治領域同經濟領域分開

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而民主進程受制於政治領域裏面時

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經濟領域，或者商業世界

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就會變成一個冇民主成份嘅地方

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咁樣，自由民主先會出現

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我哋今時今日嘅民主
將經濟由政治領域分出嚟

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呢一切開始發生嘅時候


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亦同時引發兩者之間
無可避免嘅長期戰爭

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經濟領域殖民統治政治領域

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經濟領域將政治領域嘅權利吞噬

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你哋有冇諗過點解

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宜家嘅政治家同以前嘅佢哋唔同？

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唔係因為佢哋 DNA 變咗

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（笑聲）

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而係因為依家
喺政府做嘢嘅人已經冇權力

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因為權力已經從政治領域轉移到

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同政治領域無關嘅經濟領域

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講真，以上就係我憎資本主義嘅地方

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你諗下，好似一班肉食動物

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殺死咗大量佢哋懶以生存嘅獵物

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最後唯有自己挨餓

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同樣道理

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經濟領域殖民同吞食咗政治領域

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喺呢種情況下佢其實削弱嘅係自己

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令自己面臨經濟危機

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企業勢力崛起緊，但政治勢力減緊

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唔平等嘅問題加劇緊

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總需求又下跌梗

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企業總裁怕投資自己公司啲錢去第度

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資本主義越係將人從民主裏面剔除

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兩座負債同閑錢嘅山峰就會越嚟越高

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人力資源同人類財富亦會越嚟越浪費

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好明顯，如果咁樣嘅推測係啱嘅話

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我哋就必須要合返埋政治同經濟領域

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最好可以畀人民控制大局

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就好似古雅典一樣

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但奴隸、女人同移民唔包括在內

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呢樣嘢並唔係咩新概念

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馬克思主義者一百年前就有咁嘅諗法

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但佢哋嘅諗法唔係發展得好好

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我哋從蘇聯解體學到

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只有奇蹟先可以
令勞動階層重新獲得權力

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就好似古代雅典冇帶嚟
新形式嘅暴行同浪費咁

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但有一個解决辦法：消滅勞動階層

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資本主義正係做緊呢樣嘢

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佢通過自動程式、安卓系統、機械人

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取代低薪嘅勞動力

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問題係只要經濟同政治領域一直分離

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自動化過程會令
兩座負債同閑錢嘅山峰更加高

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加劇浪費，同埋加深社會矛盾

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我相信中國呢類地方會好快發生咁嘅事

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因此我哋要改造

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我哋要將經濟領域同政治領域拉返埋

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方法就係將兩個領域民主化

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以免我哋最終生活喺
一個監控狂、超專制嘅制度下

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如果唔係《駭客任務》電影
就好容易變成紀錄片

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（笑聲）

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問題唔係資本主義可以承受
自己帶嚟嘅科技創新

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最令我感興趣嘅係

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資本主義會唔會畀《駭客任務》
入面嘅敵托邦取代

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又或者好似《星際迷航》嘅社會取代

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《星際迷航》裏面，機械服務人類

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而人類就擴張能量，探索星際

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同埋喺一啲類似
古雅典嘅高科技集會度

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喋喋不休咁討論人生意義

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我覺得我哋可以樂觀啲睇

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但要擁有《星際迷航》嘅烏托邦
或者《駭客任務》嘅敵托邦

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我哋要做啲咩呢？

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等我略略講下幾個例子

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企業層面上，你可以想像一個資金市場

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喺嗰度，你只要工作就可以賺取資金

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即使你轉工、轉公司

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你賺嘅資金都會跟住你

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而每間公司都係由嗰度做嘢嘅人持有

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所有收入嚟自資本同利潤

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僱傭概念最後會過時

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唔會再有人擁有但冇為公司工作

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或者冇擁有公司但為公司工作

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唔會再有資本階級
同勞動階級之間嘅鬥爭

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投資、儲蓄之間再唔會有大嘅差距

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亦再冇兩座高聳入雲嘅賃務同閑錢嘅山

189
00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:40,960
至於全球政治型經濟層面

190
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:42,900
可以想像一下

191
00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:45,210
我哋國家貨幣同一個

192
00:11:45,210 --> 00:11:51,690
由國際貨幣基金組織同 G20 峰會
代表全人類發行嘅全球性數碼貨幣

193
00:11:51,690 --> 00:11:59,626
有自由浮動匯率

194
00:11:59,626 --> 00:12:00,750
再想像下

195
00:12:00,750 --> 00:12:05,200
所有國際貿易都用呢隻貨幣進行

196
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,746
我哋就稱佢為「宇宙幣」

197
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:16,370
每個政府都會根據自己國家
貿易逆差或者順差

198
00:12:16,370 --> 00:12:23,720
向一個共同基金按比例投入宇宙幣

199
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,976
想像呢個基金用嚟投資
全世界可再生能源科技

200
00:12:28,976 --> 00:12:34,680
尤其投資到世界上資金唔到嘅地方

201
00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:36,410
呢個唔係新構思

202
00:12:36,410 --> 00:12:40,400
實際上，佢係由凱恩斯 1944 年

203
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,580
喺布列敦森林會議上提出嘅

204
00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:48,646
問題係當時佢哋冇科技實現呢個理念

205
00:12:48,646 --> 00:12:49,790
但依家我哋有啦

206
00:12:49,790 --> 00:12:56,110
尤其當政治同經濟領域重新走埋一齊

207
00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:01,596
我描述梗嘅呢個世界同時係自由嘅

208
00:13:01,596 --> 00:13:07,230
佢將被賜權力嘅人
同馬克思主義者擺喺首位

209
00:13:07,230 --> 00:13:08,150
因為咁樣

210
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:13,030
資本同勞動階層之間嘅分別
同埋凱恩斯主義

211
00:13:13,030 --> 00:13:16,880
會消失喺歷史長河裏面

212
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:19,810
但總言之

213
00:13:19,810 --> 00:13:25,260
呢個係一個我哋能夠
想像到真正民主嘅世界

214
00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,390
咁嘅世界會唔會出現呢？

215
00:13:28,390 --> 00:13:32,810
或者我哋會淪落到好似
《黑客帝國》咁嘅反烏德邦？

216
00:13:32,810 --> 00:13:37,220
答案就喺我哋大家
要做嘅政治決擇入面

217
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,230
呢個係我哋嘅選擇

218
00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:42,200
而我哋最好用民主方式決定

219
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:43,220
多謝

220
00:13:43,220 --> 00:13:46,890
（掌聲）

221
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,880
主持︰瓦魯法基斯⋯

222
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:57,240
你喺自我介紹入面叫自己做
自由派馬克思主義者

223
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,590
咁分析馬克思主義
同現今世界有咩關係呢？

224
00:14:01,590 --> 00:14:04,370
講者：如果我投先講嘅内容
有相關嘅地方

225
00:14:04,370 --> 00:14:06,120
咁馬克思主義就係有參考價值

226
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,090
因為重新連起政治
同經濟領域嘅重點係

227
00:14:10,090 --> 00:14:11,180
如果我哋唔做

228
00:14:11,180 --> 00:14:15,970
咁科技創新就會導致總需求大幅下跌

229
00:14:15,970 --> 00:14:20,670
亦即係 Larry Summers 
所講嘅經濟長期停滯

230
00:14:20,670 --> 00:14:23,580
隨住危機由世界某一度向外擴散

231
00:14:23,580 --> 00:14:25,110
就好似而家咁

232
00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:27,840
佢唔單止令我哋嘅民主制度唔穩定

233
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:32,040
仲會沖擊唔係特别歡迎
自由民主嘅發展中國家

234
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,920
如果呢個論述成立嘅話
咁馬克思主義絕對係相關嘅

235
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,720
而哈耶克論述都係

236
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,470
呢樣就係點解我係
自由派馬克思主義者

237
00:14:39,470 --> 00:14:40,610
凱恩斯都係

238
00:14:40,610 --> 00:14:42,710
所以我自己都係矇查查

239
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:43,930
（笑聲）

240
00:14:43,930 --> 00:14:44,760
主持：確實係

241
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,480
但可能我哋依家都係咁添

242
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:47,836
（笑聲）

243
00:14:47,836 --> 00:14:49,210
（掌聲）

244
00:14:49,210 --> 00:14:52,220
講者︰如果你冇覺得困惑嘅話
即係代表你冇喺度思考。得唔得？

245
00:14:52,220 --> 00:14:54,840
主持︰真係好希臘哲學家嘅講法

246
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,830
講者：應該係愛因斯坦至真

247
00:14:56,830 --> 00:14:58,820
主持：你提到新加坡同中國

248
00:14:58,820 --> 00:15:01,400
仲有琴晚喺演講嘉賓晚宴

249
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:06,620
你對西方點樣看待中國一事上
表達咗強烈嘅觀點

250
00:15:06,620 --> 00:15:08,390
你想唔想同我哋講下？

251
00:15:08,390 --> 00:15:11,400
講者：嗯，偽善嘅面孔有好多

252
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,830
而喺我哋自由民主制度之下

253
00:15:13,830 --> 00:15:15,720
我哋有虛有其表嘅民主

254
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,420
因為正如我剛才所講

255
00:15:17,420 --> 00:15:20,040
我哋框死咗民主喺政治領域裏面

256
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,500
以致當去到經濟領域時

257
00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:27,296
所有動作都係唔民主嘅

258
00:15:27,296 --> 00:15:28,480
可以咁講

259
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,680
激進啲咁講

260
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:36,190
中國今時今日就好似 19 世紀嘅英國

261
00:15:36,190 --> 00:15:37,510
因為記得當時

262
00:15:37,510 --> 00:15:39,840
我哋將自由主義同民主唥埋一齊

263
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,050
但呢個係歷史上嘅錯誤

264
00:15:42,050 --> 00:15:43,890
自由主義就好似 
John Stuart Mill 所諗

265
00:15:43,890 --> 00:15:48,600
John Stuart Mill 
對民主進程特別懷疑

266
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,980
宜家你見到嘅中國
同工業革命時期嘅英國—

267
00:15:52,980 --> 00:15:57,280
尤其是由第一次到第二次
工業革命過渡期嘅英國

268
00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,250
有一個非常相似嘅過程

269
00:16:00,250 --> 00:16:06,856
用西方社會 19 世紀
做過嘅事嚟斥責中國

270
00:16:06,856 --> 00:16:08,340
實在太虚偽啦

271
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,070
主持：我相信在座好多人都對你今年初

272
00:16:13,070 --> 00:16:15,840
出任希臘財政部長嘅經歷好奇

273
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:17,555
講者：我都知你會問呢個問題

274
00:16:17,555 --> 00:16:18,365
主持：冇錯

275
00:16:18,365 --> 00:16:22,710
咁六個月之後，你點睇頭半年嘅經歷？

276
00:16:23,868 --> 00:16:26,848
講者：就我個人嚟講，係非常興奮

277
00:16:26,848 --> 00:16:27,840
亦非常失望

278
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,690
因為我哋有機會重振歐元區

279
00:16:31,690 --> 00:16:33,810
不單只希臘，而係歐元區

280
00:16:33,810 --> 00:16:36,500
令成個區走出自滿

281
00:16:36,500 --> 00:16:39,536
同唔再拒絕承認…

282
00:16:39,536 --> 00:16:44,416
宜家有一條結構性嘅裂痕
横跨成個歐元區

283
00:16:44,416 --> 00:16:48,663
威脅到歐盟發展

284
00:16:48,663 --> 00:16:51,923
我哋曾經喺希臘項目裏面
有咁嘅機會做好去

285
00:16:51,923 --> 00:16:58,847
呢個希臘項目係第一個計劃
解决呢啲拒認嘅問題

286
00:16:58,847 --> 00:17:00,130
不幸嘅係

287
00:17:00,130 --> 00:17:02,040
歐元區嘅權勢

288
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:03,969
歐元集團嘅權勢

289
00:17:03,969 --> 00:17:05,949
仍然選擇繼續否認問題存在

290
00:17:05,949 --> 00:17:07,249
但你知道有嘢會發生

291
00:17:07,249 --> 00:17:09,440
蘇聯嘅經驗已經講咗畀我哋知

292
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,515
如果你想令根本生存唔到嘅經濟系统

293
00:17:13,515 --> 00:17:18,000
通過政治意願或者
威權主義嘅方式繼續生存

294
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,750
你可能成功將佢延長壽命

295
00:17:20,750 --> 00:17:22,320
但係當改變來臨時

296
00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,950
事情就會好突然，而且災難性

297
00:17:24,950 --> 00:17:26,901
主持︰你希望見到咩變化？

298
00:17:26,901 --> 00:17:28,159
講者：嗯，無容置疑

299
00:17:28,159 --> 00:17:30,621
如果我哋唔改變歐元區嘅架構

300
00:17:30,621 --> 00:17:32,530
歐元區係唔會有將來

301
00:17:32,530 --> 00:17:33,920
主持：當你做希臘財長嗰時

302
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:35,480
你有冇做過錯誤嘅决定？

303
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:36,980
講者：日日都有

304
00:17:36,980 --> 00:17:39,646
主持：例如？
講者：任何人面對過去…

305
00:17:39,646 --> 00:17:44,130
（掌聲）

306
00:17:44,130 --> 00:17:45,496
唔係，認真咁講

307
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,080
如果有一位財政部長
或者其他部長同你講

308
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,320
佢哋工作咗六個月之後

309
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,256
尤其喺咁大壓力嘅情況底下
佢哋冇做錯過事嘅話

310
00:17:55,256 --> 00:17:57,210
呢種人其實好危險

311
00:17:57,210 --> 00:17:58,400
當然，我有犯過錯

312
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,360
我最大錯誤就係喺二月尾

313
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:05,630
簽咗申請延長債務協議嘅申請書

314
00:18:05,630 --> 00:18:07,710
當時我以為債權方

315
00:18:07,710 --> 00:18:11,170
真係有興趣去搵一個共同利益

316
00:18:11,170 --> 00:18:12,270
但事實唔係咁

317
00:18:12,270 --> 00:18:14,900
佢哋嘅興趣係想打壓我哋嘅政府

318
00:18:14,900 --> 00:18:21,646
原因係佢哋唔想處理
歐元區嗰條結構裂痕

319
00:18:21,646 --> 00:18:23,300
同埋佢哋唔想承認

320
00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:26,790
佢哋過去五年對希臘
實施咗惡夢嘅計劃

321
00:18:26,790 --> 00:18:30,060
我哋喺失去咗三分一嘅名義 GDP

322
00:18:30,060 --> 00:18:31,960
情況比起大蕭條時更加差

323
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,606
喺嗰班實施呢啲政策嘅債權人之中

324
00:18:34,606 --> 00:18:39,330
無人可以置身事外到去講
「呢個係巨大嘅錯誤」

325
00:18:39,330 --> 00:18:41,940
主持︰除咗上述
除咗呢啲進取嘅言論

326
00:18:41,940 --> 00:18:45,350
你似乎都同意歐洲一體化

327
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:46,410
講者：絕對係

328
00:18:46,410 --> 00:18:50,700
我之所以對歐盟同歐元區嘅批評

329
00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:55,660
係因為我係一個歐洲人

330
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,256
我最大嘅恐懼係
歐元區無法生存落去

331
00:18:59,260 --> 00:19:01,676
因為如果歐元區唔可以繼續走落去

332
00:19:01,676 --> 00:19:03,550
咁離心力就會被解放出嚟

333
00:19:03,550 --> 00:19:05,336
就好似魔鬼咁解放

334
00:19:05,340 --> 00:19:07,270
最終會摧毀整個歐盟

335
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:11,220
咁嘅惡果唔只對歐洲
對全球經濟都會產生嚴重影響

336
00:19:11,220 --> 00:19:15,536
我哋可能係世界上最大嘅經濟體

337
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:20,166
如果我哋容許自己
走返 30 年代嘅舊路

338
00:19:20,166 --> 00:19:22,860
雖然我覺得
我哋依家就行緊咁嘅路

339
00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:26,716
咁對歐洲人嘅未來
同埋歐洲以外嘅人嘅未來

340
00:19:26,716 --> 00:19:28,040
都係不利嘅

341
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,130
主持：我哋真係好希望
呢點上面你係錯嘅

342
00:19:30,130 --> 00:19:31,740
瓦魯法基斯，多謝你嚟到 TED

343
00:19:31,740 --> 00:19:32,900
講者：多謝

344
00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:37,433
（掌聲）