0:00:02.206,0:00:05.224 I'm a potter, 0:00:05.224,0:00:09.749 which seems like a fairly humble vocation. 0:00:09.749,0:00:12.629 I know a lot about pots. 0:00:12.629,0:00:16.309 I've spent about 15 years making them. 0:00:16.309,0:00:19.339 One of the things that really[br]excites me in my artistic practice 0:00:19.339,0:00:22.056 and being trained as a potter 0:00:22.056,0:00:27.500 is that you very quickly learn[br]how to make great things out of nothing; 0:00:27.500,0:00:34.283 that I spent a lot of time at my wheel[br]with mounds of clay trying stuff; 0:00:34.283,0:00:37.775 and that the limitations[br]of my capacity, my ability, 0:00:37.775,0:00:40.506 was based on my hands and my imagination; 0:00:40.506,0:00:42.706 that if I wanted to make[br]a really nice bowl 0:00:42.706,0:00:44.810 and I didn't know how to make a foot yet, 0:00:44.810,0:00:47.829 I would have to learn how to make a foot; 0:00:47.829,0:00:51.933 that that process of learning[br]has been very, very helpful to my life. 0:00:52.983,0:00:54.957 I feel like, as a potter, 0:00:54.957,0:00:59.067 you also start to learn[br]how to shape the world. 0:00:59.067,0:01:02.178 There have been times[br]in my artistic capacity 0:01:02.178,0:01:05.041 that I wanted to reflect 0:01:05.041,0:01:07.704 on other really important moments 0:01:07.704,0:01:11.814 in the history of the U.S.,[br]the history of the world 0:01:11.814,0:01:13.405 where tough things happened, 0:01:13.405,0:01:16.086 but how do you talk about tough ideas 0:01:16.086,0:01:20.196 without separating people[br]from that content? 0:01:20.196,0:01:25.792 Could I use art like these old,[br]discontinued firehoses from Alabama, 0:01:25.792,0:01:31.946 to talk about the complexities of a moment[br]of civil rights in the '60s? 0:01:31.946,0:01:36.797 Is it possible to talk about my father[br]and I doing labor projects? 0:01:36.797,0:01:40.954 My dad was a roofer, construction guy,[br]he owned small businesses, 0:01:40.954,0:01:46.470 and at 80, he was ready to retire[br]and his tar kettle was my inheritance. 0:01:47.850,0:01:51.659 Now, a tar kettle doesn't sound[br]like much of an inheritance. It wasn't. 0:01:51.659,0:01:55.606 It was stinky and it took up[br]a lot of space in my studio, 0:01:55.606,0:01:59.901 but I asked my dad if he would be willing[br]to make some art with me, 0:01:59.901,0:02:03.732 if we could reimagine this kind[br]of nothing material 0:02:03.732,0:02:06.217 as something very special. 0:02:06.217,0:02:09.607 And by elevating the material[br]and my dad's skill, 0:02:09.607,0:02:14.625 could we start to think about tar[br]just like clay, in a new way, 0:02:15.905,0:02:20.017 shaping it differently,[br]helping us to imagine what was possible? 0:02:21.607,0:02:25.790 After clay, I was then kind of turned on[br]to lots of different kinds of materials, 0:02:25.790,0:02:28.762 and my studio grew a lot[br]because I thought, well, 0:02:28.762,0:02:32.849 it's not really about the material,[br]it's about our capacity to shape things. 0:02:32.849,0:02:35.705 I became more and more interested in ideas 0:02:35.705,0:02:40.537 and more and more things that [br]were happening just outside my studio. 0:02:41.897,0:02:45.096 Just to give you a little bit of context,[br]I live in Chicago. 0:02:45.104,0:02:48.359 I live on the South Side now.[br]I'm a West Sider. 0:02:48.359,0:02:51.773 For those of you who are not Chicagoans,[br]that won't mean anything, 0:02:51.773,0:02:54.025 but if I didn't mention[br]that I was a West Sider, 0:02:54.025,0:02:58.204 there would be a lot of people[br]in the city that would be very upset. 0:02:58.204,0:03:01.153 The neighborhood that I live in[br]is Grand Crossing. 0:03:01.153,0:03:04.195 It's a neighborhood[br]that has seen better days. 0:03:04.976,0:03:09.071 It is not a gated community by far. 0:03:09.071,0:03:12.205 There is lots of abandonment[br]in my neighborhood, 0:03:12.205,0:03:15.711 and while I was kind of busy[br]making pots and busy making art 0:03:15.711,0:03:17.662 and having a good art career, 0:03:17.662,0:03:19.807 there was all of this stuff[br]that was happening 0:03:19.807,0:03:21.600 just outside my studio. 0:03:22.460,0:03:25.748 All of us know about[br]failing housing markets 0:03:25.748,0:03:27.580 and the challenges of blight, 0:03:27.580,0:03:31.057 and I feel like we talk about it[br]with some of our cities more than others, 0:03:31.057,0:03:33.991 but I think a lot of our[br]U.S. cities and beyond 0:03:33.991,0:03:36.011 have the challenge of blight, 0:03:36.011,0:03:40.237 abandoned buildings that people[br]no longer know what to do anything with. 0:03:40.237,0:03:43.093 And so I thought, is there a way[br]that I could start to think 0:03:43.093,0:03:48.479 about these buildings as an extension[br]or an expansion of my artistic practice? 0:03:48.479,0:03:51.498 And that if I was thinking[br]along with other creatives -- 0:03:51.498,0:03:55.166 architects, engineers,[br]real estate finance people -- 0:03:55.166,0:03:58.046 that us together might be able[br]to kind of think 0:03:58.046,0:04:01.715 in more complicated ways[br]about the reshaping of cities. 0:04:03.085,0:04:04.733 And so I bought a building. 0:04:04.733,0:04:07.473 The building was really affordable. 0:04:07.473,0:04:09.185 We tricked it out. 0:04:09.185,0:04:13.620 We made it as beautiful as we could[br]to try to just get some activity happening 0:04:13.620,0:04:15.872 on my block. 0:04:15.872,0:04:18.310 Once I bought the building[br]for about 18,000 dollars, 0:04:18.310,0:04:20.330 I didn't have any money left. 0:04:20.330,0:04:24.509 So I started sweeping the building[br]as a kind of performance. 0:04:25.599,0:04:28.341 This is performance art,[br]and people would come over, 0:04:28.341,0:04:29.897 and I would start sweeping. 0:04:29.897,0:04:32.544 Because the broom was free[br]and sweeping was free. 0:04:32.544,0:04:34.703 It worked out. 0:04:34.703,0:04:36.938 (Laughter) 0:04:36.938,0:04:42.389 But we would use the building, then,[br]to stage exhibitions, small dinners, 0:04:42.389,0:04:46.336 and we found that that building[br]on my block, Dorchester -- 0:04:46.336,0:04:49.052 we now referred to the block[br]as Dorchester projects -- 0:04:49.052,0:04:52.535 that in a way that building[br]became a kind of gathering site 0:04:52.535,0:04:54.769 for lots of different kinds of activity. 0:04:54.769,0:04:59.222 We turned the building into[br]what we called now the Archive House. 0:04:59.222,0:05:02.403 The Archive House would do[br]all of these amazing things. 0:05:02.403,0:05:05.747 Very significant people[br]in the city and beyond 0:05:05.747,0:05:08.422 would find themselves[br]in the middle of the hood. 0:05:08.422,0:05:10.790 And that's when I felt like 0:05:10.790,0:05:13.602 maybe there was a relationship[br]between my history with clay 0:05:13.602,0:05:16.172 and this new thing that was[br]starting to develop, 0:05:16.172,0:05:18.514 that we were slowly starting 0:05:18.514,0:05:22.370 to reshape how people imagined[br]the South Side of the city. 0:05:23.440,0:05:25.622 One house turned into a few houses, 0:05:25.622,0:05:28.084 and we always tried to suggest 0:05:28.084,0:05:32.008 that not only is creating[br]a beautiful vessel important, 0:05:32.008,0:05:35.884 but the contents of what happens[br]in those buildings is also very important. 0:05:35.884,0:05:38.532 So we were not only thinking[br]about development, 0:05:38.532,0:05:40.854 but we were thinking about the program, 0:05:40.854,0:05:44.360 thinking about the kind of connections[br]that could happen 0:05:44.360,0:05:48.809 between one house and another,[br]between one neighbor and another. 0:05:50.159,0:05:53.181 This building became what we call[br]the Listening House, 0:05:53.181,0:05:56.431 and it has a collection of discarded books 0:05:56.431,0:05:59.102 from the Johnson Publishing Corporation, 0:05:59.102,0:06:03.095 and other books from an old bookstore[br]that was going out of business. 0:06:03.095,0:06:07.368 I was actually just wanting to activate[br]these buildings as much as I could 0:06:07.368,0:06:10.688 with whatever and whoever would join me. 0:06:11.678,0:06:14.612 In Chicago, there's[br]amazing building stock. 0:06:14.612,0:06:18.791 This building, which had been[br]the former crack house on the block, 0:06:18.791,0:06:21.345 and when the building became abandoned, 0:06:21.345,0:06:25.246 it became a great opportunity to really[br]imagine what else could happen there. 0:06:25.246,0:06:29.298 So this space we converted into[br]what we call Black Cinema House. 0:06:29.298,0:06:33.419 Black Cinema House was an opportunity[br]in the hood to screen films 0:06:33.419,0:06:37.633 that were important and relevant[br]to the folk who lived around me, 0:06:37.633,0:06:41.348 that if we wanted to show[br]an old Melvin Van Peebles film, we could. 0:06:41.348,0:06:44.018 If we wanted to show "Car Wash," we could. 0:06:44.018,0:06:45.991 That would be awesome. 0:06:45.991,0:06:48.546 The building we soon outgrew, 0:06:48.546,0:06:51.053 and we had to move to a larger space. 0:06:51.053,0:06:55.488 Black Cinema House, which was made[br]from just a small piece of clay, 0:06:55.488,0:07:02.779 had to grow into a much larger[br]piece of clay, which is now my studio. 0:07:02.779,0:07:06.588 What I realized was that[br]for those of you who are zoning junkies, 0:07:06.588,0:07:08.582 that some of the things that I was doing 0:07:08.582,0:07:11.881 in these buildings[br]that had been left behind, 0:07:11.881,0:07:15.713 they were not the uses by which[br]the buildings were built, 0:07:15.713,0:07:17.941 and that there are city policies that say, 0:07:17.941,0:07:21.260 "Hey, a house that is residential[br]needs to stay residential." 0:07:21.260,0:07:26.067 But what do you do in neighborhoods when[br]ain't nobody interested in living there? 0:07:26.067,0:07:30.011 That the people who have[br]the means to leave have already left? 0:07:30.011,0:07:32.498 What do we do with[br]these abandoned buildings? 0:07:32.498,0:07:35.703 And so I was trying[br]to wake them up using culture. 0:07:35.703,0:07:38.706 We found that that[br]was so exciting for folk, 0:07:38.706,0:07:43.271 and people were so responsive to the work,[br]that we had to then find bigger buildings. 0:07:43.271,0:07:45.316 By the time we found bigger buildings, 0:07:45.316,0:07:49.569 there was, in part, the resources [br]necessary to think about those things. 0:07:49.569,0:07:53.901 In this bank that we called the Arts Bank,[br]it was in pretty bad shape. 0:07:53.901,0:07:57.187 There was about six feet[br]of standing water. 0:07:57.187,0:07:59.649 It was a difficult project to finance, 0:07:59.649,0:08:02.079 because banks weren't interested[br]in the neighborhood 0:08:02.079,0:08:04.641 because people weren't interested[br]in the neighborhood 0:08:04.641,0:08:06.742 because nothing had happened there. 0:08:06.742,0:08:10.724 It was dirt. It was nothing.[br]It was nowhere. 0:08:10.724,0:08:16.381 And so we just started imagining,[br]what else could happen in this building? 0:08:16.381,0:08:21.846 (Applause) 0:08:21.846,0:08:24.615 And so now that the rumor[br]of my block has spread, 0:08:24.615,0:08:26.595 and lots of people are starting to visit, 0:08:26.595,0:08:28.696 we've found that the bank[br]can now be a center 0:08:28.696,0:08:31.908 for exhibition, archives,[br]music performance, 0:08:31.908,0:08:34.686 and that there are people[br]who are now interested 0:08:34.686,0:08:38.224 in being adjacent to those buildings[br]because we brought some heat, 0:08:38.224,0:08:40.677 that we kind of made a fire. 0:08:40.677,0:08:44.926 One of the archives that we'll have there[br]is this Johnson Publishing Corporation. 0:08:44.926,0:08:48.525 We've also started to collect[br]memorabilia from American history, 0:08:48.525,0:08:52.356 from people who live[br]or have lived in that neighborhood. 0:08:52.356,0:08:56.094 Some of these images[br]are degraded images of black people, 0:08:56.094,0:08:59.368 kind of histories[br]of very challenging content, 0:08:59.368,0:09:01.829 and where better than a neighborhood 0:09:01.829,0:09:06.099 with young people who are constantly[br]asking themselves about their identity 0:09:06.099,0:09:08.354 to talk about some of the complexities 0:09:08.354,0:09:10.196 of race and class? 0:09:10.896,0:09:14.623 In some ways, the bank represents a hub, 0:09:14.623,0:09:19.975 that we're trying to create a pretty [br]hardcore node of cultural activity, 0:09:19.975,0:09:22.842 and that if we could start[br]to make multiple hubs 0:09:22.842,0:09:25.791 and connect some cool[br]green stuff around there, 0:09:25.791,0:09:28.740 that the buildings that we've[br]purchased and rehabbed, 0:09:28.740,0:09:32.014 which is now around 60 or 70 units, 0:09:32.014,0:09:37.447 that if we could land[br]miniature Versailles on top of that, 0:09:37.447,0:09:40.930 and connect these buildings[br]by a beautiful greenbelt -- 0:09:40.930,0:09:43.855 (Applause) -- 0:09:43.855,0:09:47.315 that this place where people[br]never wanted to be 0:09:47.315,0:09:49.776 would become an important destination 0:09:49.776,0:09:52.357 for folk from all over[br]the country and world. 0:09:53.027,0:09:56.812 In some ways, it feels[br]very much like I'm a potter, 0:09:56.812,0:10:00.225 that we tackle the things[br]that are at our wheel, 0:10:00.225,0:10:02.488 we try with the skill that we have 0:10:02.488,0:10:07.028 to think about this next bowl[br]that I want to make. 0:10:07.028,0:10:11.927 And it went from a bowl to a singular[br]house to a block to a neighborhood 0:10:11.927,0:10:14.621 to a cultural district[br]to thinking about the city, 0:10:14.621,0:10:18.707 and at every point, there were things[br]that I didn't know that I had to learn. 0:10:18.707,0:10:21.749 I've never learned so much[br]about zoning law in my life. 0:10:21.749,0:10:23.529 I never thought I'd have to. 0:10:23.529,0:10:26.486 But as a result of that, I'm finding[br]that there's not just room 0:10:26.486,0:10:28.227 for my own artistic practice, 0:10:28.227,0:10:30.763 there's room for a lot of other[br]artistic practices. 0:10:31.803,0:10:33.382 So people started asking us, 0:10:33.382,0:10:35.853 "Well, Theaster, how are you[br]going to go to scale?" 0:10:35.853,0:10:37.988 and, "What's your sustainability plan?" 0:10:37.988,0:10:42.739 (Laughter) (Applause) 0:10:42.739,0:10:46.616 And what I found was that[br]I couldn't export myself, 0:10:46.616,0:10:50.355 that what seems necessary[br]in cities like Akron, Ohio, 0:10:50.355,0:10:52.955 and Detroit, Michigan, and Gary, Indiana, 0:10:52.955,0:10:56.653 is that there are people in those places[br]who already believe in those places, 0:10:56.653,0:10:59.579 that are already dying[br]to make those places beautiful, 0:10:59.579,0:11:03.038 and that often, those people[br]who are passionate about a place 0:11:03.038,0:11:07.450 are disconnected from the resources[br]necessary to make cool things happen, 0:11:07.450,0:11:10.027 or disconnected from[br]a contingency of people 0:11:10.027,0:11:11.908 that could help make things happen. 0:11:11.908,0:11:16.200 So now, we're starting to give advice[br]around the country 0:11:16.200,0:11:18.345 on how to start with what you got, 0:11:18.345,0:11:21.140 how to start with the things[br]that are in front of you, 0:11:21.140,0:11:23.517 how to make something out of nothing, 0:11:23.517,0:11:28.045 how to reshape your world[br]at a wheel or at your block 0:11:28.045,0:11:30.530 or at the scale of the city. 0:11:30.530,0:11:32.225 Thank you so much. 0:11:32.225,0:11:38.131 (Applause) 0:11:39.695,0:11:43.201 June Cohen: Thank you. So I think[br]many people watching this 0:11:43.201,0:11:46.406 will be asking themselves[br]the question you just raised at the end: 0:11:46.406,0:11:48.588 How can they do this in their own city? 0:11:48.588,0:11:50.209 You can't export yourself. 0:11:50.209,0:11:53.882 Give us a few pages out of your playbook[br]about what someone who is inspired 0:11:53.882,0:11:56.772 about their city can do[br]to take on projects like yours? 0:11:56.772,0:11:59.965 Theaster Gates: One of the things[br]I've found that's really important 0:11:59.965,0:12:04.052 is giving thought to not just[br]the kind of individual project, 0:12:04.052,0:12:06.846 like an old house, 0:12:06.846,0:12:09.717 but what's the relationship[br]between an old house, 0:12:09.717,0:12:12.875 a local school, a small bodega, 0:12:12.875,0:12:15.871 and is there some kind of synergy[br]between those things? 0:12:15.871,0:12:18.169 Can you get those folk talking? 0:12:18.169,0:12:22.720 I've found that in cases[br]where neighborhoods have failed, 0:12:22.720,0:12:24.903 they still often have a pulse. 0:12:24.903,0:12:28.362 How do you identify the pulse[br]in that place, the passionate people, 0:12:28.362,0:12:31.367 and then how do you get folk[br]who have been fighting, 0:12:31.367,0:12:35.758 slogging for 20 years, reenergized[br]about the place that they live? 0:12:35.758,0:12:38.219 And so someone has to do that work. 0:12:38.219,0:12:42.492 If I were a traditional developer,[br]I would be talking about buildings alone, 0:12:42.492,0:12:46.439 and then putting[br]a "For Lease" sign in the window. 0:12:46.439,0:12:49.086 I think that you actually[br]have to curate more than that, 0:12:49.086,0:12:51.784 that there's a way in which[br]you have to be mindful about, 0:12:51.784,0:12:54.840 what are the businesses[br]that I want to grow here? 0:12:54.840,0:12:57.282 And then, are there people[br]who live in this place 0:12:57.282,0:12:59.302 who want to grow those businesses with me? 0:12:59.302,0:13:02.135 Because I think it's not just[br]a cultural space or housing; 0:13:02.135,0:13:05.177 there has to be the recreation[br]of an economic core. 0:13:05.177,0:13:08.845 So thinking about those things[br]together feels right. 0:13:08.845,0:13:11.651 JC: It's hard to get people[br]to create the spark again 0:13:11.651,0:13:13.698 when people have been[br]slogging for 20 years. 0:13:13.698,0:13:16.815 Are there any methods you've found[br]that have helped break through? 0:13:16.815,0:13:19.782 TG: Yeah, I think that now[br]there are lots of examples 0:13:19.782,0:13:21.616 of folk who are doing amazing work, 0:13:21.616,0:13:26.051 but those methods are sometimes like,[br]when the media is constantly saying 0:13:26.051,0:13:29.023 that only violent things[br]happen in a place, 0:13:29.023,0:13:32.320 then based on your skill set[br]and the particular context, 0:13:32.320,0:13:35.640 what are the things that you can do[br]in your neighborhood 0:13:35.640,0:13:37.765 to kind of fight some of that? 0:13:37.765,0:13:40.668 So I've found that[br]if you're a theater person, 0:13:40.668,0:13:42.943 you have outdoor street theater festivals. 0:13:42.943,0:13:46.867 In some cases, we don't have[br]the resources in certain neighborhoods 0:13:46.867,0:13:50.211 to do things that are[br]a certain kind of splashy, 0:13:50.211,0:13:53.322 but if we can then find ways[br]of making sure that people 0:13:53.322,0:13:54.854 who are local to a place, 0:13:54.854,0:13:58.686 plus people who could be supportive[br]of the things that are happening locally, 0:13:58.686,0:14:00.450 when those people get together, 0:14:00.450,0:14:02.586 I think really amazing things can happen. 0:14:02.586,0:14:04.072 JC: So interesting. 0:14:04.072,0:14:06.394 And how can you make sure[br]that the projects you're creating 0:14:06.394,0:14:08.159 are actually for the disadvantaged 0:14:08.159,0:14:12.199 and not just for the sort of[br]vegetarian indie movie crowd 0:14:12.199,0:14:14.318 that might move in[br]to take advantage of them. 0:14:14.318,0:14:19.359 TG: Right on. So I think this is where[br]it starts to get into the thick weeds. 0:14:19.359,0:14:21.996 JC: Let's go there.[br]TG: Right now, Grand Crossing 0:14:21.996,0:14:24.993 is 99 percent black, or at least living, 0:14:24.993,0:14:28.313 and we know that maybe[br]who owns property in a place 0:14:28.313,0:14:30.774 is different from who walks[br]the streets every day. 0:14:30.774,0:14:33.630 So it's reasonable to say[br]that Grand Crossing is already 0:14:33.630,0:14:37.485 in the process of being something[br]different than it is today. 0:14:37.485,0:14:43.080 But are there ways to think about[br]housing trusts or land trusts 0:14:43.080,0:14:45.518 or a mission-based development 0:14:45.518,0:14:48.281 that starts to protect[br]some of the space that happens, 0:14:48.281,0:14:52.600 because when you have[br]7,500 empty lots in a city, 0:14:52.600,0:14:54.551 you want something to happen there, 0:14:54.551,0:14:59.055 but you need entities that are not[br]just interested in the development piece, 0:14:59.055,0:15:02.143 but entities that are interested[br]in the stabilization piece, 0:15:02.143,0:15:05.649 and I feel like often the developer piece[br]is really motivated, 0:15:05.649,0:15:09.016 but the other work of a kind[br]of neighborhood consciousness, 0:15:09.016,0:15:10.990 that part doesn't live anymore. 0:15:10.990,0:15:15.796 So how do you start to grow up[br]important watchdogs 0:15:15.796,0:15:18.518 that ensure that the resources[br]that are made available 0:15:18.518,0:15:19.954 to new folk that are coming in 0:15:19.954,0:15:23.346 are also distributed to folk[br]who have lived in a place for a long time. 0:15:23.346,0:15:25.955 JC: That makes so much sense.[br]One more question: 0:15:25.955,0:15:30.002 You make such a compelling case for beauty[br]and the importance of beauty and the arts. 0:15:30.002,0:15:33.280 There would be others who would argue[br]that funds would be better spent 0:15:33.280,0:15:36.484 on basic services for the disadvantaged. 0:15:36.484,0:15:40.194 How do you combat that viewpoint,[br]or come against it? 0:15:40.194,0:15:42.694 TG: I believe that beauty [br]is a basic service. 0:15:42.694,0:15:48.713 (Applause) 0:15:50.333,0:15:54.168 Often what I have found is that[br]when there are resources 0:15:54.168,0:15:57.628 that have not been made available[br]to certain under-resourced cities 0:15:57.628,0:15:59.694 or neighborhoods or communities, 0:15:59.694,0:16:04.397 that sometimes culture is the thing[br]that helps to ignite, 0:16:04.397,0:16:07.037 and that I can't do everything, 0:16:07.037,0:16:10.444 but I think that there's a way in which[br]if you can start with culture 0:16:10.444,0:16:13.416 and get people kind of[br]reinvested in their place, 0:16:13.416,0:16:17.689 other kinds of adjacent[br]amenities start to grow, 0:16:17.689,0:16:21.642 and then people can make a demand[br]that's a poetic demand, 0:16:21.642,0:16:26.883 and the political demands that[br]are necessary to wake up our cities, 0:16:26.883,0:16:28.646 they also become very poetic. 0:16:28.646,0:16:30.558 JC: It makes perfect sense to me. 0:16:30.558,0:16:33.225 Theaster, thank you so much[br]for being here with us today. 0:16:33.225,0:16:34.476 Thank you. Theaster Gates. 0:16:34.476,0:16:39.491 (Applause)