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This story starts: I was at a friend's house,

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and she had on her shelf a copy of the DSM manual,

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which is the manual of mental disorders.

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It lists every known mental disorder.

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And it used to be, back in the '50s, a very slim pamphlet.

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And then it got bigger and bigger and bigger,

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and now it's 886 pages long.

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And it lists currently 374 mental disorders.

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So I was leafing through it,

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wondering if I had any mental disorders,

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and it turns out I've got 12.

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(Laughter)

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I've got generalized anxiety disorder,

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which is a given.

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I've got nightmare disorder,

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which is categorized

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if you have recurrent dreams of being pursued or declared a failure --

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and all my dreams involve people chasing me down the street

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going, "You're a failure."

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(Laughter)

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I've got parent-child relational problems,

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which I blame my parents for.

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(Laughter)

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I'm kidding. I'm not kidding.

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I'm kidding.

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And I've got malingering.

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And I think it's actually quite rare

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to have both malingering and generalized anxiety disorder,

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because malingering tends to make me feel very anxious.

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Anyway I was looking through this book,

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wondering if I was much crazier than I thought I was,

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or maybe it's not a good idea to diagnose yourself with a mental disorder

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if you're not a trained professional,

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or maybe the psychiatry profession has a strange desire

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to label what's essentially normal human behavior as a mental disorder.

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I didn't know which of these things was true,

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but I thought it was kind of interesting.

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And I thought maybe I should meet a critic of psychiatry

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to get their view.

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Which is how I ended up having lunch with the Scientologists.

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It was a man called Brian

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who runs a crack team of Scientologists

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who are determined to destroy psychiatry wherever it lies.

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They're called the CCHR.

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And I said to him, "Can you prove to me

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that psychiatry is a pseudo-science that can't be trusted?"

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And he said, "Yes, we can prove it to you."

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And I said, "How?"

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And he said, "We're going to introduce you to Tony."

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And I said, "Who's Tony?"

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And he said, "Tony's in Broadmoor."

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Now Broadmoor is Broadmoor Hospital.

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It used to be known as the Broadmoor Asylum for the Criminally Insane.

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It's where they send the serial killers

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and the people who can't help themselves.

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And I said to Brian, "What did Tony do?"

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And he said, "Hardly anything.

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He beat someone up or something,

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and he decided to fake madness to get out of a prison sentence.

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But he faked it too well, and now he's stuck in Broadmoor

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and nobody will believe he's sane.

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Do you want us to try and get you into Broadmoor to meet Tony?"

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So I said, "Yes, please."

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So I got the train to Broadmoor.

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I began to yawn uncontrollably around Kempton Park,

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which apparently is what dogs also do when anxious --

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they yawn uncontrollably.

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And we got to Broadmoor.

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And I got taken through gate after gate after gate after gate

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into the wellness center,

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which is where you get to meet the patients.

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It looks like a giant Hampton Inn.

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It's all peach and pine and calming colors.

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And the only bold colors are the reds of the panic buttons.

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And the patients started drifting in.

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And they were quite overweight and wearing sweatpants

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and quite docile looking.

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And Brian the Scientologist whispered to me,

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"They're medicated,"

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which to the Scientologists is like the worst evil in the world,

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but I'm thinking it's probably a good idea.

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(Laughter)

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And then Brian said, "Here's Tony."

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And a man was walking in.

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And he wasn't overweight, he was in very good physical shape.

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And he wasn't wearing sweatpants,

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he was wearing a pinstriped suit.

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And he had his arm outstretched

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like someone out of The Apprentice.

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He looked like a man who wanted to wear an outfit

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that would convince me that he was very sane.

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And he sat down.

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And I said, "So is it true that you faked your way in here?"

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And he said, "Yep. Yep. Absolutely. I beat someone up when I was 17.

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And I was in prison awaiting trial,

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and my cellmate said to me,

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'You know what you have to do?

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Fake madness.

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Tell them you're mad. You'll get sent to some cushy hospital.

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Nurses will bring you pizzas.

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You'll have your own Playstation.'"

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So I said, "Well how did you do it?"

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He said, "I asked to see the prison psychiatrist.

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And I'd just seen a film called 'Crash'

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in which people get sexual pleasure from crashing cars into walls.

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So I said to the psychiatrist,

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'I get sexual pleasure from crashing cars into walls.'"

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And I said, "What else?"

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He said, "Oh, yeah. I told the psychiatrist

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that I wanted to watch women as they died

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because it would make me feel more normal."

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And I said, "Where'd you get that from?"

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He said, "Oh, from a biography of Ted Bundy

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that they had at the prison library."

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Anyway he faked madness too well, he said.

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And they didn't send him to some cushy hospital.

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They sent him to Broadmoor.

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And the minute he got there,

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he said he took one look at the place, asked to see the psychiatrist,

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said, "There's been a terrible misunderstanding.

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I'm not mentally ill."

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I said, "How long have you been here for?"

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He said, "Well, if I'd just done my time in prison for the original crime,

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I'd have got five years.

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I've been in Broadmoor for 12 years."

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Tony said that it's a lot harder to convince people you're sane

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than it is to convince them you're crazy.

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He said, "I thought the best way to seem normal

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would be to talk to people normally about normal things

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like football or what's on TV.

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I subscribe to New Scientist,

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and recently it had an article

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about how the U.S. Army was training bumblebees to sniff out explosives.

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So I said to a nurse,

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'Did you know that the U.S. army is training bumblebees

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to sniff out explosives?'

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When I read my medical notes,

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I saw they'd written:

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'Believes bees can sniff out explosives.'"

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He said, "You know, they're always looking out

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for non-verbal clues to my mental state.

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But how do you sit in a sane way?

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How do you cross your legs in a sane way?

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It's just impossible."

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And when Tony said that to me,

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I thought to myself, "Am I sitting like a journalist?

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Am I crossing my legs like a journalist?"

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He said, "You know, I've got the Stockwell Strangler on one side of me

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and I've got the 'Tiptoe Through the Tulips' rapist on the other side of me.

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So I tend to stay in my room a lot because I find them quite frightening.

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And they take that as a sign of madness.

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They say it proves that I'm aloof and grandiose."

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So only in Broadmoor would not wanting to hang out with serial killers

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be a sign of madness.

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Anyway he seemed completely normal to me -- but what did I know?

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And when I got home I emailed his clinician, Anthony Maden.

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I said, "What's the story?"

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And he said, "Yep. We accept that Tony faked madness to get out of a prison sentence

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because his hallucinations that had seemed quite cliché to begin with

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just vanished the minute he got to Broadmoor.

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However, we have assessed him.

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And we have determined that what he is is a psychopath."

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And in fact, faking madness

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is exactly the kind of cunning and manipulative act of a psychopath.

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It's on the checklist: cunning and manipulative.

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So faking your brain going wrong

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is evidence that your brain has gone wrong.

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And I spoke to other experts,

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and they said the pinstriped suit -- classic psychopath.

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Speaks to items one and two on the checklist --

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glibness, superficial charm and grandiose sense of self-worth.

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And I said, "Well, what, he didn't want to hang out with the other patients?"

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Classic psychopath -- it speaks to grandiosity and also lack of empathy.

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So all the things that had seemed most normal about Tony

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was evidence, according to his clinician,

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that he was mad in this new way.

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He was a psychopath.

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And his clinician said to me,

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"If you want to know more about psychopaths,

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you can go on a psychopath spotting course

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run by Robert Hare who invented the psychopath checklist."

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So I did.

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I went on a psychopath spotting course,

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and I am now a certified --

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and I have to say, extremely adept --

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psychopath spotter.

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So here's the statistics:

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One in a hundred regular people is a psychopath.

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So there's 1,500 people in his room.

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Fifteen of you are psychopaths.

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Although that figure rises to four percent

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of CEO's and business leaders.

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So I think there's a very good chance

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there's about 30 or 40 psychopaths in this room.

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It could be carnage by the end of the night.

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(Laughter) (Laughs)

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Hare said the reason why is because capitalism at its most ruthless

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rewards psychopathic behavior --

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the lack of empathy, the glibness,

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cunning, manipulative.

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In fact, capitalism, perhaps at its most remorseless,

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is a physical manifestation of psychopathy.

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It's like a form of psychopathy

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that's come down to affect us all.

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And Hare said to me, "You know what? Forget about some guy at Broadmoor

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who may or may not have faked madness.

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Who cares? That's not a big story.

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The big story," he said, "is corporate psychopathy.

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You want to go an interview yourself some corporate psychopaths."

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So I gave it a try. I wrote to the Enron people.

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I said, "Could I come and interview you in prison

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to find out it you're psychopaths?"

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And they didn't reply.

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So I changed tack.

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I emailed "Chainsaw Al" Dunlap,

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the asset stripper from the 1990s.

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He would come into failing businesses and close down 30 percent of the workforce,

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just turn American towns into ghost towns.

0:10:18.697,0:10:20.327
And I emailed him and I said,

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"I believe you may have a very special brain anomaly

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that makes you special

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and interested in the predatory spirit and fearless.

0:10:29.293,0:10:31.061
Can I come and interview you

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about your special brain anomaly?"

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And he said, "Come on over."

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So I went to Al Dunlap's grand Florida mansion

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that was filled with sculptures of predatory animals.

0:10:43.844,0:10:46.929
There were lions and tigers.

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He was taking me through the garden.

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There were falcons and eagles.

0:10:50.699,0:10:52.429
He was saying to me, "Over there you've got sharks."

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He was saying this in a less effeminate way.

0:10:55.114,0:11:00.835
"You've got more sharks and you've got tigers."

0:11:00.835,0:11:02.830
It was like Narnia.

0:11:02.830,0:11:06.120
(Laughter)

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And then we went into his kitchen.

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Now Al Dunlap would be brought in to save failing companies.

0:11:12.948,0:11:15.129
He'd close down 30 percent of the workforce.

0:11:15.129,0:11:18.400
And he'd quite often fire people with a joke.

0:11:18.400,0:11:21.205
For instance, one famous story about him,

0:11:21.205,0:11:24.120
somebody came up to him and said, "I've just bought myself a new car."

0:11:24.120,0:11:26.113
And he said, "You may have a new car,

0:11:26.113,0:11:31.836
but I'll tell you what you don't have, a job."

0:11:31.836,0:11:34.656
So in his kitchen -- he was standing there with his wife, Judy,

0:11:34.656,0:11:37.529
and his bodyguard Shawn -- and I said, "You know how I said in my email

0:11:37.529,0:11:41.343
that you might have a special brain anomaly that makes you special?"

0:11:41.343,0:11:42.943
He said, "Yeah, it's an amazing theory.

0:11:42.943,0:11:46.176
It's like Star Trek. You're going where no man has gone before."

0:11:46.176,0:11:54.027
And I said, "Well, some psychologists might say

0:11:54.027,0:11:56.976
that this makes you ... " (Mumbles)

0:11:56.976,0:11:58.627
(Laughter)

0:11:58.627,0:12:00.394
And he said, "What?"

0:12:00.394,0:12:02.427
And I said, "A psychopath."

0:12:02.427,0:12:06.609
And I said, "I've got a list of psychopathic traits in my pocket.

0:12:06.609,0:12:08.893
Can I go through them with you?"

0:12:08.893,0:12:11.510
And he looked intrigued despite himself,

0:12:11.510,0:12:12.909
and he said, "Okay, go on."

0:12:12.909,0:12:16.343
And I said, "Okay. Grandiose sense of self-worth."

0:12:16.343,0:12:18.842
Which, I have to say, would have been hard for him to deny

0:12:18.842,0:12:22.043
because he was standing underneath a giant oil painting of himself.

0:12:22.043,0:12:26.520
(Laughter)

0:12:26.520,0:12:30.073
He said, "Well, you've got to believe in you!"

0:12:30.073,0:12:32.668
And I said, "Manipulative."

0:12:32.668,0:12:35.719
He said, "That's leadership."

0:12:35.719,0:12:37.585
And I said, "Shallow affect:

0:12:37.585,0:12:39.869
an inability to experience a range of emotions."

0:12:39.869,0:12:43.486
He said, "Who wants to be weighed down by some nonsense emotions?"

0:12:43.486,0:12:45.953
So he was going down the psychopathic checklist,

0:12:45.953,0:12:49.186
basically turning it into "Who Moved My Cheese?"

0:12:49.186,0:12:53.181
(Laughter)

0:12:53.181,0:12:55.881
But I did notice something happening to me the day I was with Al Dunlap.

0:12:55.881,0:12:58.469
Whenever he said anything to me that was kind of normal --

0:12:58.469,0:13:01.635
like he said no to juvenile delinquency.

0:13:01.635,0:13:03.021
He said he got accepted into West Point,

0:13:03.021,0:13:06.269
and they don't let delinquents in West Point.

0:13:06.269,0:13:09.118
He said no to many short-term marital relationships.

0:13:09.118,0:13:10.603
He's only ever been married twice.

0:13:10.603,0:13:13.837
Admittedly, his first wife cited in her divorce papers

0:13:13.837,0:13:16.004
that he once threatened her with a knife

0:13:16.004,0:13:18.570
and said he always wondered what human flesh tasted like,

0:13:18.570,0:13:22.537
but people say stupid things to each other in bad marriages in the heat of an argument

0:13:22.537,0:13:25.636
and his second marriage has lasted 41 years.

0:13:25.636,0:13:29.255
So whenever he said anything to me that just seemed kind of non-psychopathic,

0:13:29.255,0:13:32.769
I thought to myself, well I'm not going to put that in my book.

0:13:32.769,0:13:36.736
And then I realized that becoming a psychopath spotter

0:13:36.736,0:13:40.436
had turned me a little bit psychopathic.

0:13:40.436,0:13:45.404
Because I was desperate to shove him in a box marked psychopath.

0:13:45.404,0:13:50.070
I was desperate to define him by his maddest edges.

0:13:50.070,0:13:53.337
And I realized, oh my God. This is what I've been doing for 20 years.

0:13:53.337,0:13:55.037
It's what all journalists do.

0:13:55.037,0:13:58.521
We travel across the world with our notepads in our hands,

0:13:58.521,0:14:00.420
and we wait for the gems.

0:14:00.420,0:14:04.948
And the gems are always the outermost aspects

0:14:04.948,0:14:06.987
of our interviewee's personality.

0:14:06.987,0:14:10.239
And we stitch them together like medieval monks.

0:14:10.239,0:14:14.104
And we leave the normal stuff on the floor.

0:14:14.104,0:14:21.271
And this is a country that over-diagnoses certain mental disorders hugely.

0:14:21.271,0:14:24.337
Childhood bipolar -- children as young as four

0:14:24.337,0:14:26.287
are being labeled bipolar

0:14:26.287,0:14:28.670
because they have temper tantrums,

0:14:28.670,0:14:33.054
which scores them high on their bipolar checklist.

0:14:33.054,0:14:37.437
When I got back to London, Tony phoned me.

0:14:37.437,0:14:40.287
He said, "Why haven't you been returning my calls?"

0:14:40.287,0:14:43.679
I said, "Well they say that you're a psychopath."

0:14:43.679,0:14:45.973
And he said, "I'm not a psychopath."

0:14:45.973,0:14:48.869
He said, "You know what, one of the items on the checklist is lack of remorse,

0:14:48.869,0:14:52.154
but another item on the checklist is cunning, manipulative.

0:14:52.154,0:14:54.739
So when you say you feel remorse for your crime,

0:14:54.739,0:14:56.503
they say, 'Typical of the psychopath

0:14:56.503,0:14:59.888
to cunningly say he feels remorse when he doesn't.'

0:14:59.888,0:15:03.387
It's like witchcraft. They turn everything upside-down."

0:15:03.387,0:15:05.869
He said, "I've got a tribunal coming up.

0:15:05.869,0:15:08.240
Will you come to it?"

0:15:08.240,0:15:10.155
So I said okay.

0:15:10.155,0:15:13.047
So I went to his tribunal.

0:15:13.047,0:15:17.504
And after 14 years in Broadmoor, they let him go.

0:15:17.504,0:15:20.752
They decided that he shouldn't be held indefinitely

0:15:20.752,0:15:23.888
because he scores high on a checklist

0:15:23.888,0:15:29.271
that might mean that he would have a greater than average chance of recidivism.

0:15:29.271,0:15:31.154
So they let him go.

0:15:31.154,0:15:32.863
And outside in the corridor he said to me,

0:15:32.863,0:15:34.406
"You know what, Jon?

0:15:34.406,0:15:36.829
Everyone's a bit psychopathic."

0:15:36.829,0:15:40.911
He said, "You are. I am. Well obviously I am."

0:15:40.911,0:15:43.411
I said, "What are you going to do now?"

0:15:43.411,0:15:46.129
He said, "I'm going to go to Belgium

0:15:46.129,0:15:47.929
because there's a woman there that I fancy.

0:15:47.929,0:15:51.128
But she's married, so I'm going to have to get her split up from her husband."

0:15:51.128,0:15:55.721
(Laughter)

0:15:55.721,0:15:58.777
Anyway, that was two years ago,

0:15:58.777,0:16:00.784
and that's where my book ended.

0:16:00.784,0:16:05.251
And for the last 20 months everything was fine.

0:16:05.251,0:16:07.385
Nothing bad happened.

0:16:07.385,0:16:09.256
He was living with a girl outside London.

0:16:09.256,0:16:11.234
He was, according to Brian the Scientologist,

0:16:11.234,0:16:14.598
making up for lost time -- which I know sounds ominous,

0:16:14.600,0:16:16.300
but isn't necessarily ominous.

0:16:16.300,0:16:18.883
Unfortunately, after 20 months,

0:16:18.883,0:16:21.267
he did go back to jail for a month.

0:16:21.267,0:16:25.633
He got into a fracas in a bar, he called it --

0:16:25.633,0:16:27.701
ended up going to jail for a month,

0:16:27.701,0:16:28.751
which I know is bad,

0:16:28.751,0:16:31.984
but at least a month implies that whatever the fracas was,

0:16:31.984,0:16:34.517
it wasn't too bad.

0:16:34.517,0:16:37.805
And then he phoned me.

0:16:37.805,0:16:42.354
And you know what, I think it's right that Tony is out.

0:16:42.354,0:16:46.255
Because you shouldn't define people by their maddest edges.

0:16:46.255,0:16:49.737
And what Tony is, is he's a semi-psychopath.

0:16:49.737,0:16:55.437
He's a gray area in a world that doesn't like gray areas.

0:16:55.437,0:16:59.855
But the gray areas are where you find the complexity,

0:16:59.855,0:17:03.237
it's where you find the humanity

0:17:03.237,0:17:06.139
and it's where you find the truth.

0:17:06.139,0:17:08.253
And Tony said to me,

0:17:08.253,0:17:12.138
"Jon, could I buy you a drink in a bar?

0:17:12.138,0:17:15.445
I just want to thank you for everything you've done for me."

0:17:15.445,0:17:20.501
And I didn't go. What would you have done?

0:17:20.501,0:17:21.811
Thank you.

0:17:21.811,0:17:38.572
(Applause)