[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.00,0:00:04.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This story starts: I was at a friend's house,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:04.06,0:00:07.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and she had on her shelf a copy of the DSM manual,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:07.79,0:00:10.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is the manual of mental disorders.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:10.56,0:00:13.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It lists every known mental disorder.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:13.16,0:00:16.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it used to be, back in the '50s, a very slim pamphlet.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:16.81,0:00:19.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then it got bigger and bigger and bigger,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.64,0:00:22.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and now it's 886 pages long.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.72,0:00:26.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it lists currently 374 mental disorders.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:26.81,0:00:28.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I was leafing through it,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:28.86,0:00:31.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wondering if I had any mental disorders,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.02,0:00:33.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it turns out I've got 12.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.61,0:00:34.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.66,0:00:36.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've got generalized anxiety disorder,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.77,0:00:38.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is a given.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:38.32,0:00:39.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've got nightmare disorder,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.94,0:00:41.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is categorized
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.76,0:00:45.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you have recurrent dreams of being pursued or declared a failure --
Dialogue: 0,0:00:45.89,0:00:49.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all my dreams involve people chasing me down the street
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.84,0:00:51.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going, "You're a failure."
Dialogue: 0,0:00:51.49,0:00:53.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:00:53.22,0:00:55.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've got parent-child relational problems,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.92,0:00:58.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I blame my parents for.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.39,0:00:59.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.64,0:01:02.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm kidding. I'm not kidding.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:02.69,0:01:03.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm kidding.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.97,0:01:05.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I've got malingering.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:05.94,0:01:07.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think it's actually quite rare
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.24,0:01:10.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have both malingering and generalized anxiety disorder,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:10.69,0:01:13.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because malingering tends to make me feel very anxious.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:13.42,0:01:14.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyway I was looking through this book,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:14.76,0:01:17.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wondering if I was much crazier than I thought I was,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:17.77,0:01:21.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or maybe it's not a good idea to diagnose yourself with a mental disorder
Dialogue: 0,0:01:21.11,0:01:23.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you're not a trained professional,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:23.21,0:01:27.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or maybe the psychiatry profession has a strange desire
Dialogue: 0,0:01:27.94,0:01:33.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to label what's essentially normal human behavior as a mental disorder.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.19,0:01:34.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I didn't know which of these things was true,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:34.99,0:01:36.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I thought it was kind of interesting.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.69,0:01:39.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I thought maybe I should meet a critic of psychiatry
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.74,0:01:41.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get their view.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:41.06,0:01:45.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which is how I ended up having lunch with the Scientologists.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.77,0:01:47.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was a man called Brian
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.13,0:01:50.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who runs a crack team of Scientologists
Dialogue: 0,0:01:50.02,0:01:54.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are determined to destroy psychiatry wherever it lies.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:54.58,0:01:56.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're called the CCHR.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.07,0:01:58.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said to him, "Can you prove to me
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.75,0:02:02.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that psychiatry is a pseudo-science that can't be trusted?"
Dialogue: 0,0:02:02.60,0:02:05.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said, "Yes, we can prove it to you."
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.02,0:02:06.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "How?"
Dialogue: 0,0:02:06.68,0:02:10.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said, "We're going to introduce you to Tony."
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.23,0:02:12.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "Who's Tony?"
Dialogue: 0,0:02:12.37,0:02:15.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said, "Tony's in Broadmoor."
Dialogue: 0,0:02:15.75,0:02:18.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now Broadmoor is Broadmoor Hospital.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:18.42,0:02:23.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It used to be known as the Broadmoor Asylum for the Criminally Insane.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.27,0:02:25.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's where they send the serial killers
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.67,0:02:27.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the people who can't help themselves.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:27.64,0:02:30.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said to Brian, "What did Tony do?"
Dialogue: 0,0:02:30.29,0:02:33.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said, "Hardly anything.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:33.27,0:02:36.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He beat someone up or something,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.27,0:02:41.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he decided to fake madness to get out of a prison sentence.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.50,0:02:46.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But he faked it too well, and now he's stuck in Broadmoor
Dialogue: 0,0:02:46.10,0:02:48.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and nobody will believe he's sane.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.98,0:02:52.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you want us to try and get you into Broadmoor to meet Tony?"
Dialogue: 0,0:02:52.65,0:02:54.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I said, "Yes, please."
Dialogue: 0,0:02:54.27,0:02:56.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I got the train to Broadmoor.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:56.94,0:03:00.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I began to yawn uncontrollably around Kempton Park,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:00.55,0:03:03.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which apparently is what dogs also do when anxious --
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.57,0:03:05.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they yawn uncontrollably.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.50,0:03:06.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we got to Broadmoor.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:06.84,0:03:11.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I got taken through gate after gate after gate after gate
Dialogue: 0,0:03:11.77,0:03:13.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the wellness center,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:13.34,0:03:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is where you get to meet the patients.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.00,0:03:18.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It looks like a giant Hampton Inn.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:18.75,0:03:22.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's all peach and pine and calming colors.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:22.84,0:03:28.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the only bold colors are the reds of the panic buttons.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.05,0:03:30.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the patients started drifting in.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:30.94,0:03:35.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they were quite overweight and wearing sweatpants
Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.64,0:03:37.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and quite docile looking.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:37.54,0:03:39.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Brian the Scientologist whispered to me,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.54,0:03:41.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"They're medicated,"
Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.69,0:03:45.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which to the Scientologist is like the worst evil in the world,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.18,0:03:47.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I'm thinking it's probably a good idea.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.98,0:03:49.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:03:49.85,0:03:52.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then Brian said, "Here's Tony."
Dialogue: 0,0:03:52.27,0:03:54.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And a man was walking in.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:54.20,0:03:58.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he wasn't overweight, he was in very good physical shape.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:58.27,0:04:00.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he wasn't wearing sweatpants,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:00.02,0:04:02.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he was wearing a pinstriped suit.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.89,0:04:05.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he had his arm outstretched
Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.05,0:04:07.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like someone out of The Apprentice.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:07.14,0:04:09.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He looked like a man who wanted to wear an outfit
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.90,0:04:14.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that would convince me that he was very sane.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.24,0:04:16.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he sat down.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:16.07,0:04:18.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "So is it true that you faked your way in here?"
Dialogue: 0,0:04:18.67,0:04:22.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said, "Yep. Yep. Absolutely. I beat someone up when I was 17.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.46,0:04:24.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I was in prison awaiting trial,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:24.78,0:04:26.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and my cellmate said to me,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:26.29,0:04:27.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,'You know what you have to do?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:27.84,0:04:29.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fake madness.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:29.32,0:04:32.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Tell them you're mad. You'll get sent to some cushy hospital.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.61,0:04:35.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nurses will bring you pizzas.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.29,0:04:37.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You'll have your own Playstation.'"
Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.10,0:04:38.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I said, "Well how did you do it?"
Dialogue: 0,0:04:38.99,0:04:41.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "I asked to see the prison psychiatrist.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.60,0:04:43.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'd just seen a film called 'Crash'
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.75,0:04:47.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which people get sexual pleasure from crashing cars into walls.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.74,0:04:49.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I said to the psychiatrist,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.37,0:04:53.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,'I get sexual pleasure from crashing cars into walls.'"
Dialogue: 0,0:04:53.35,0:04:55.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "What else?"
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.11,0:04:57.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "Oh, yeah. I told the psychiatrist
Dialogue: 0,0:04:57.45,0:05:01.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I wanted to watch women as they died
Dialogue: 0,0:05:01.12,0:05:03.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it would make me feel more normal."
Dialogue: 0,0:05:03.47,0:05:05.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "Where'd you get that from?"
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.12,0:05:07.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "Oh, from a biography of Ted Bundy
Dialogue: 0,0:05:07.87,0:05:09.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they had at the prison library."
Dialogue: 0,0:05:09.42,0:05:13.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyway he faked madness too well, he said.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:13.74,0:05:15.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they didn't send him to some cushy hospital.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:15.64,0:05:17.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They sent him to Broadmoor.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:17.84,0:05:19.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the minute he got there,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:19.89,0:05:22.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he said he took one look at the place, asked to see the psychiatrist,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:22.66,0:05:24.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,said, "There's been a terrible misunderstanding.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.37,0:05:27.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not mentally ill."
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.00,0:05:29.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I said, "How long have you been here for?"
Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.00,0:05:33.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "Well, if I'd just done my time in prison for the original crime,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:33.34,0:05:34.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd have got five years.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.99,0:05:40.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've been in Broadmoor for 12 years."
Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.53,0:05:44.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Tony said that it's a lot harder to convince people you're sane
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.60,0:05:47.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than it is to convince them you're crazy.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:47.10,0:05:49.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "I thought the best way to seem normal
Dialogue: 0,0:05:49.08,0:05:51.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be to talk to people normally about normal things
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.69,0:05:53.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like football or what's on TV.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.72,0:05:55.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I subscribe to New Scientist,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:55.77,0:05:57.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and recently it had an article
Dialogue: 0,0:05:57.97,0:06:02.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about how the U.S. Army was training bumblebees to sniff out explosives.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:02.10,0:06:03.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I said to a nurse,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.09,0:06:06.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,'Did you know that the U.S. army is training bumblebees
Dialogue: 0,0:06:06.17,0:06:07.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to sniff out explosives?'
Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.52,0:06:09.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I read my medical notes,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.32,0:06:10.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I saw they'd written:
Dialogue: 0,0:06:10.55,0:06:14.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,'Believes bees can sniff out explosives.'"
Dialogue: 0,0:06:14.84,0:06:17.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "You know, they're always looking out
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.22,0:06:20.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for non-verbal clues to my mental state.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:20.02,0:06:23.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But how do you sit in a sane way?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.44,0:06:25.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you cross your legs in a sane way?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:25.85,0:06:27.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's just impossible."
Dialogue: 0,0:06:27.50,0:06:28.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when Tony said that to me,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:28.88,0:06:32.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I thought to myself, "Am I sitting like a journalist?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.11,0:06:35.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Am I crossing my legs like a journalist?"
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.55,0:06:41.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "You know, I've got the Stockwell Strangler on one side of me
Dialogue: 0,0:06:41.23,0:06:44.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I've got the 'Tiptoe Through the Tulips' rapist on the other side of me.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:44.87,0:06:48.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I tend to stay in my room a lot because I find them quite frightening.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:48.21,0:06:50.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they take that as a sign of madness.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:50.59,0:06:53.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They say it proves that I'm aloof and grandiose."
Dialogue: 0,0:06:53.72,0:06:58.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So only in Broadmoor would not wanting to hang out with serial killers
Dialogue: 0,0:06:58.24,0:06:59.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be a sign of madness.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.69,0:07:03.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyway he seemed completely normal to me -- but what did I know?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.19,0:07:06.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when I got home I emailed his clinician, Anthony Maden.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:06.68,0:07:07.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I said, "What's the story?"
Dialogue: 0,0:07:07.96,0:07:13.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said, "Yep. We accept that Tony faked madness to get out of a prison sentence
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.24,0:07:17.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because his hallucinations that had seemed quite cliché to begin with
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.76,0:07:20.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just vanished the minute he got to Broadmoor.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:20.21,0:07:22.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, we have assessed him.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:22.39,0:07:26.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we have determined that what he is is a psychopath."
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.78,0:07:28.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in fact, faking madness
Dialogue: 0,0:07:28.68,0:07:33.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is exactly the kind of cunning and manipulative act of a psychopath.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.12,0:07:35.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's on the checklist: cunning and manipulative.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.65,0:07:37.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So faking your brain going wrong
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.70,0:07:40.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is evidence that your brain has gone wrong.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.82,0:07:42.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I spoke to other experts,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.18,0:07:46.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they said the pinstriped suit -- classic psychopath.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:46.24,0:07:48.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Speaks to items one and two on the checklist --
Dialogue: 0,0:07:48.40,0:07:52.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,glibness, superficial charm and grandiose sense of self-worth.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:52.60,0:07:55.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "Well, what, he didn't want to hang out with the other patients?"
Dialogue: 0,0:07:55.91,0:08:00.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Classic psychopath -- it speaks to grandiosity and also lack of empathy.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:00.41,0:08:04.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So all the things that had seemed most normal about Tony
Dialogue: 0,0:08:04.14,0:08:06.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was evidence, according to his clinician,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.66,0:08:09.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that he was mad in this new way.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:09.10,0:08:10.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was a psychopath.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:10.93,0:08:12.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And his clinician said to me,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:12.15,0:08:14.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"If you want to know more about psychopaths,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:14.16,0:08:17.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can go on a psychopath spotting course
Dialogue: 0,0:08:17.23,0:08:20.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,run by Robert Hare who invented the psychopath checklist."
Dialogue: 0,0:08:20.55,0:08:21.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I did.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.73,0:08:23.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I went on a psychopath spotting course,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:23.80,0:08:27.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I am now a certified --
Dialogue: 0,0:08:27.61,0:08:30.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I have to say, extremely adept --
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.71,0:08:32.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,psychopath spotter.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:32.51,0:08:35.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So here's the statistics:
Dialogue: 0,0:08:35.48,0:08:40.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One in a hundred regular people is a psychopath.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.34,0:08:43.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's 1,500 people in his room.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:43.82,0:08:49.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fifteen of you are psychopaths.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.63,0:08:51.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Although that figure rises to four percent
Dialogue: 0,0:08:51.91,0:08:54.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of CEO's and business leaders.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.86,0:08:57.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I think there's a very good chance
Dialogue: 0,0:08:57.60,0:09:02.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's about 30 or 40 psychopaths in this room.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:02.60,0:09:05.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It could be carnage by the end of the night.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:05.19,0:09:08.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter) (Laughs)
Dialogue: 0,0:09:08.90,0:09:14.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hare said the reason why is because capitalism at its most ruthless
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.44,0:09:17.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rewards psychopathic behavior --
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.26,0:09:22.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the lack of empathy, the glibness,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:22.22,0:09:24.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cunning, manipulative.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:24.46,0:09:27.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, capitalism, perhaps at its most remorseless,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:27.18,0:09:31.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a physical manifestation of psychopathy.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:31.58,0:09:33.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's like a form of psychopathy
Dialogue: 0,0:09:33.50,0:09:37.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's come down to affect us all.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:37.64,0:09:40.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Hare said to me, "You know what? Forget about some guy at Broadmoor
Dialogue: 0,0:09:40.11,0:09:42.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who may or may not have faked madness.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:42.06,0:09:43.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who cares? That's not a big story.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:43.56,0:09:46.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The big story," he said, "is corporate psychopathy.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:46.21,0:09:50.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You want to go an interview yourself some corporate psychopaths."
Dialogue: 0,0:09:50.74,0:09:53.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I gave it a try. I wrote to the Enron people.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:53.84,0:09:55.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I said, "Could I come and interview you in prison
Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.69,0:09:57.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to find out it you're psychopaths?"
Dialogue: 0,0:09:57.73,0:10:01.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they didn't reply.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:01.99,0:10:04.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I changed tack.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:04.38,0:10:07.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I emailed "Chainsaw Al" Dunlap,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:07.68,0:10:10.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the asset stripper from the 1990s.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.80,0:10:15.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He would come into failing businesses and close down 30 percent of the workforce,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.53,0:10:18.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just turn American towns into ghost towns.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.70,0:10:20.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I emailed him and I said,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:20.33,0:10:22.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I believe you may have a very special brain anomaly
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.40,0:10:24.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that makes you special
Dialogue: 0,0:10:24.79,0:10:29.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and interested in the predatory spirit and fearless.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.29,0:10:31.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can I come and interview you
Dialogue: 0,0:10:31.06,0:10:32.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about your special brain anomaly?"
Dialogue: 0,0:10:32.73,0:10:36.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said, "Come on over."
Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.21,0:10:39.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I went to Al Dunlap's grand Florida mansion
Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.11,0:10:43.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was filled with sculptures of predatory animals.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:43.84,0:10:46.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There were lions and tigers.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:46.93,0:10:47.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was taking me through the garden.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.98,0:10:50.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There were falcons and eagles.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:50.70,0:10:52.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was saying to me, "Over there you've got sharks."
Dialogue: 0,0:10:52.43,0:10:55.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was saying this in a less effeminate way.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:55.11,0:11:00.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"You've got more sharks and you've got tigers."
Dialogue: 0,0:11:00.84,0:11:02.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was like Narnia.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:02.83,0:11:06.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:11:06.12,0:11:08.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then we went into his kitchen.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:08.77,0:11:12.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now Al Dunlap would be brought in to save failing companies.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:12.95,0:11:15.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He'd close down 30 percent of the workforce.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.13,0:11:18.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he'd quite often fire people with a joke.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:18.40,0:11:21.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For instance, one famous story about him,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:21.20,0:11:24.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,somebody came up to him and said, "I've just bought myself a new car."
Dialogue: 0,0:11:24.12,0:11:26.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said, "You may have a new car,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:26.11,0:11:31.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I'll tell you what you don't have, a job."
Dialogue: 0,0:11:31.84,0:11:34.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So in his kitchen -- he was standing there with his wife, Judy,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:34.66,0:11:37.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and his bodyguard Shawn -- and I said, "You know how I said in my email
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.53,0:11:41.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you might have a special brain anomaly that makes you special?"
Dialogue: 0,0:11:41.34,0:11:42.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "Yeah, it's an amazing theory.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.94,0:11:46.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's like Star Trek. You're going where no man has gone before."
Dialogue: 0,0:11:46.18,0:11:54.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "Well, some psychologists might say
Dialogue: 0,0:11:54.03,0:11:56.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that this makes you ... " (Mumbles)
Dialogue: 0,0:11:56.98,0:11:58.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:11:58.63,0:12:00.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said, "What?"
Dialogue: 0,0:12:00.39,0:12:02.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "A psychopath."
Dialogue: 0,0:12:02.43,0:12:06.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "I've got a list of psychopathic traits in my pocket.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:06.61,0:12:08.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can I go through them with you?"
Dialogue: 0,0:12:08.89,0:12:11.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he looked intrigued despite himself,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:11.51,0:12:12.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he said, "Okay, go on."
Dialogue: 0,0:12:12.91,0:12:16.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "Okay. Grandiose sense of self-worth."
Dialogue: 0,0:12:16.34,0:12:18.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which, I have to say, would have been hard for him to deny
Dialogue: 0,0:12:18.84,0:12:22.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because he was standing underneath a giant oil painting of himself.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.04,0:12:26.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:12:26.52,0:12:30.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "Well, you've got to believe in you!"
Dialogue: 0,0:12:30.07,0:12:32.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "Manipulative."
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.67,0:12:35.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "That's leadership."
Dialogue: 0,0:12:35.72,0:12:37.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "Shallow affect:
Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.58,0:12:39.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an inability to experience a range of emotions."
Dialogue: 0,0:12:39.87,0:12:43.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "Who wants to be weighed down by some nonsense emotions?"
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.49,0:12:45.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So he was going down the psychopathic checklist,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:45.95,0:12:49.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,basically turning it into "Who Moved My Cheese?"
Dialogue: 0,0:12:49.19,0:12:53.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:12:53.18,0:12:55.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I did notice something happening to me the day I was with Al Dunlap.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.88,0:12:58.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whenever he said anything to me that was kind of normal --
Dialogue: 0,0:12:58.47,0:13:01.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like he said no to juvenile delinquency.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.64,0:13:03.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said he got accepted into West Point,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:03.02,0:13:06.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they don't let delinquents in West Point.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:06.27,0:13:09.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said no to many short-term marital relationships.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:09.12,0:13:10.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's only ever been married twice.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.60,0:13:13.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Admittedly, his first wife cited in her divorce papers
Dialogue: 0,0:13:13.84,0:13:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that he once threatened her with a knife
Dialogue: 0,0:13:16.00,0:13:18.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and said he always wondered what human flesh tasted like,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.57,0:13:22.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but people say stupid things to each other in bad marriages in the heat of an argument
Dialogue: 0,0:13:22.54,0:13:25.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and his second marriage has lasted 41 years.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.64,0:13:29.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So whenever he said anything to me that just seemed kind of non-psychopathic,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:29.26,0:13:32.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I thought to myself, well I'm not going to put that in my book.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:32.77,0:13:36.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then I realized that becoming a psychopath spotter
Dialogue: 0,0:13:36.74,0:13:40.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had turned me a little bit psychopathic.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.44,0:13:45.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because I was desperate to shove him in a box marked psychopath.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.40,0:13:50.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was desperate to define him by his maddest edges.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:50.07,0:13:53.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I realized, oh my God. This is what I've been doing for 20 years.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.34,0:13:55.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's what all journalists do.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:55.04,0:13:58.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We travel across the world with our notepads in our hands,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.52,0:14:00.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we wait for the gems.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:00.42,0:14:04.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the gems are always the outermost aspects
Dialogue: 0,0:14:04.95,0:14:06.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of our interviewee's personality.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:06.99,0:14:10.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we stitch them together like medieval monks.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:10.24,0:14:14.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we leave the normal stuff on the floor.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:14.10,0:14:21.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is a country that over-diagnoses certain mental disorders hugely.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.27,0:14:24.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Childhood bipolar -- children as young as four
Dialogue: 0,0:14:24.34,0:14:26.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are being labeled bipolar
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.29,0:14:28.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they have temper tantrums,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:28.67,0:14:33.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which scores them high on their bipolar checklist.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:33.05,0:14:37.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I got back to London, Tony phoned me.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:37.44,0:14:40.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "Why haven't you been returning my calls?"
Dialogue: 0,0:14:40.29,0:14:43.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I said, "Well they say that you're a psychopath."
Dialogue: 0,0:14:43.68,0:14:45.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said, "I'm not a psychopath."
Dialogue: 0,0:14:45.97,0:14:48.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "You know what, one of the items on the checklist is lack of remorse,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:48.87,0:14:52.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but another item on the checklist is cunning, manipulative.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:52.15,0:14:54.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So when you say you feel remorse for your crime,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:54.74,0:14:56.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they say, 'Typical of the psychopath
Dialogue: 0,0:14:56.50,0:14:59.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to cunningly say he feels remorse when he doesn't.'
Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.89,0:15:03.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's like witchcraft. They turn everything upside-down."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:03.39,0:15:05.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "I've got a tribunal coming up.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:05.87,0:15:08.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Will you come to it?"
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.24,0:15:10.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I said okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:10.16,0:15:13.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I went to his tribunal.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:13.05,0:15:17.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And after 14 years in Broadmoor, they let him go.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:17.50,0:15:20.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They decided that he shouldn't be held indefinitely
Dialogue: 0,0:15:20.75,0:15:23.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because he scores high on a checklist
Dialogue: 0,0:15:23.89,0:15:29.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that might mean that he would have a greater than average chance of recidivism.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:29.27,0:15:31.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they let him go.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:31.15,0:15:32.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And outside in the corridor he said to me,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:32.86,0:15:34.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"You know what, Jon?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:34.41,0:15:36.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everyone's a bit psychopathic."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:36.83,0:15:40.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "You are. I am. Well obviously I am."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:40.91,0:15:43.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I said, "What are you going to do now?"
Dialogue: 0,0:15:43.41,0:15:46.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "I'm going to go to Belgium
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.13,0:15:47.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there's a woman there that I fancy.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:47.93,0:15:51.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But she's married, so I'm going to have to get her split up from her husband."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.13,0:15:55.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:15:55.72,0:15:58.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyway, that was two years ago,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.78,0:16:00.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's where my book ended.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.78,0:16:05.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And for the last 20 months everything was fine.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.25,0:16:07.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nothing bad happened.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:07.38,0:16:09.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was living with a girl outside London.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:09.26,0:16:11.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was, according to Brian the Scientologist,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.23,0:16:14.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,making up for lost time -- which I know sounds ominous,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:14.60,0:16:16.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but isn't necessarily ominous.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:16.30,0:16:18.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Unfortunately, after 20 months,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:18.88,0:16:21.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he did go back to jail for a month.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:21.27,0:16:25.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He got into a fracas in a bar, he called it --
Dialogue: 0,0:16:25.63,0:16:27.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ended up going to jail for a month,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.70,0:16:28.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I know is bad,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:28.75,0:16:31.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but at least a month implies that whatever the fracas was,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.98,0:16:34.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it wasn't too bad.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:34.52,0:16:37.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then he phoned me.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:37.80,0:16:42.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you know what, I think it's right that Tony is out.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:42.35,0:16:46.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because you shouldn't define people by their maddest edges.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:46.26,0:16:49.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what Tony is, is he's a semi-psychopath.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:49.74,0:16:55.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's a gray area in a world that doesn't like gray areas.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:55.44,0:16:59.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the gray areas are where you find the complexity,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:59.86,0:17:03.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's where you find the humanity
Dialogue: 0,0:17:03.24,0:17:06.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's where you find the truth.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:06.14,0:17:08.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Tony said to me,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:08.25,0:17:12.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Jon, could I buy you a drink in a bar?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:12.14,0:17:15.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just want to thank you for everything you've done for me."
Dialogue: 0,0:17:15.44,0:17:20.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I didn't go. What would you have done?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:20.50,0:17:21.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:21.81,0:17:38.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Applause)