WEBVTT 00:00:02.765 --> 00:00:05.609 Hello, everyone. This is Eric Stam from NASCSP. 00:00:05.609 --> 00:02:14.310 We are going to get started in just a few minutes. We'll wait for some more folks to join on. 00:02:14.310 --> 00:02:20.253 Eric Stam: Alright, everyone. I think we’re going to go ahead and get started, and to start we’ll turn it over to Jo-Ann Choate. 00:02:20.253 --> 00:02:30.496 Jo-Anne Choate: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for participating in this afternoon's webinar: The NASCSP Carbon Trading 101. 00:02:30.496 --> 00:02:36.372 We're hoping that this is going to be the first of a series that we plan on doing over the next two months. 00:02:36.372 --> 00:02:42.346 Today I have Eric Stam that is going to be joining us. 00:02:42.346 --> 00:03:04.098 He is our Carbon Trading Program Analyst. And before he worked with us, Eric previously worked with the Community Services Block Grant Division at NASCSP, providing training and technical assistance to state members. Eric now works totally on the NASCSP Carbon Trading project. 00:03:04.098 --> 00:03:21.408 He helps generate carbon offsets for the sales and leverage of additional funding for the WAP network. Eric received a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Economics and International Studies from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. 00:03:21.408 --> 00:03:30.828 Alice Gaston is the Program Assistant for NASCSP and working now on the Carbon Program with us. 00:03:30.828 --> 00:03:44.561 Formerly she assisted as the policy associate at the Advocates for The Other America, a lobbying firm working to advance the concerns of low-income Americans in Washington, DC. 00:03:44.561 --> 00:03:55.534 Alice Gaston received her Bachelor of Arts Degree in International Relations from Franklin College in Switzerland. 00:03:55.534 --> 00:04:08.245 Today they are going to go over this Carbon Project with you. What we’re going to do today is keep everybody on mute, 00:04:08.245 --> 00:04:19.609 but we do have it set up so that anyone can email their questions in to us, and we want to, we’ll try to answer some of those as we go along. 00:04:19.609 --> 00:04:35.159 For those that we don’t answer we will do at the end of the session, so please remember to just email as they come up and send them to us, and we will do our best as we go through this presentation. 00:04:35.159 --> 00:04:38.753 At this point we would like to start this with Eric. 00:04:38.753 --> 00:04:51.083 Eric Stam: Thank you, Jo-Ann. We can go ahead and get started. I just want to say, as Jo-Ann mentioned, you can submit questions to us as we go along. 00:04:51.083 --> 00:05:01.849 There should be a section just entitled questions or questions and answers in the webinar applications you’re using, 00:05:01.849 --> 00:05:11.605 and if you type those in, your questions there, they’ll show up for Jo-Ann, Alice and myself, and we’ll try to get to those as we go along. 00:05:11.605 --> 00:05:23.867 So, what we want to try and do today is cover some of the basics of the Carbon Market and what it means to trade carbon offsets. 00:05:23.867 --> 00:05:30.938 And then also cover some of the basics of what the NASCSP Carbon Trading Program is, what we’re trying to accomplish, 00:05:30.938 --> 00:05:41.734 what we think it means for the network, and also sort of the different roles and different ways that states participate. 00:05:41.734 --> 00:05:59.118 So, to get started, I just want to talk about a few of the fundamental building blocks of what we’re doing: The first of that is, “What is a carbon market?” Or, “What are the carbon markets?” 00:05:59.118 --> 00:06:03.152 First and foremost, the carbon market is a commodity market. 00:06:03.152 --> 00:06:23.823 In many ways just like any other commodity market you may have heard of, whether it be a market for oil or grain, meat, anything like that where a physical commodity is bought and sold, as you’ll see in a minute, 00:06:23.823 --> 00:06:29.913 a carbon offset is not a physical commodity, but it’s a commodity in another sense. 00:06:29.913 --> 00:06:34.177 That’s how it’s bought and sold. We’ll get into that in a little bit on the next slide. 00:06:34.177 --> 00:06:51.705 The actual unit or designation for that commodity that is bought and sold is tons of carbon dioxide equivalents, and this is just the convention in the market for how to communicate how much 00:06:51.705 --> 00:07:04.648 a project has reduced emissions of greenhouse gases, or how much a country or a company or some other entity has emitted greenhouse gases. 00:07:04.648 --> 00:07:17.227 They’re called carbon dioxide equivalents because, as some of you may already know, there are a number of different greenhouse gases. Carbon dioxide is the most common at this point and most well-known. 00:07:17.227 --> 00:07:32.941 But, just to give another example, Methane is another greenhouse gas, and, in fact methane is in terms of its impact or its effect on the atmosphere, is much more powerful than carbon dioxide. 00:07:32.941 --> 00:07:48.490 But for the ease of communication and for trading, everything is converted to carbon dioxide equivalents. If methane is four times, or has four times the impact on the atmosphere as carbon dioxide, 00:07:48.490 --> 00:07:59.562 then one ton of methane would be equal to four tons of carbon dioxide. So that’s the basic unit we’re talking about. 00:07:59.562 --> 00:08:09.645 The carbon markets can also be broken into two different types: you have compliance markets and voluntary markets. 00:08:09.645 --> 00:08:15.478 When you hear the word compliance market the easiest thing to think of is cap and trade. 00:08:15.478 --> 00:08:31.254 That describes a compliance carbon market. An example of this might be the recently started cap and trade system in California, or the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative 00:08:31.254 --> 00:08:35.624 which is about eight states in New England in the United States. 00:08:35.624 --> 00:08:49.053 Or in Europe, the European Trading System is also a compliance market. The key feature of a compliance market is that it’s established by a law or a piece of legislation, 00:08:49.053 --> 00:09:01.754 and that piece of legislation sets a cap or a legal limit for the country or for the areas governed by the law. 00:09:01.754 --> 00:09:14.324 And it creates a legal obligation that companies, or whatever the appropriate entities are in that country, have to comply with. 00:09:14.324 --> 00:09:29.793 In order to comply, companies or other types of entities, have to be able to measure their emissions during a certain period, which is typically a year. 00:09:29.793 --> 00:09:42.617 They also have to be able to show that they own or can account for a number of allowances that equal their emissions for that period. 00:09:42.617 --> 00:09:52.255 So, on a compliance market the primary thing that exchanges hands and goes back and forth are called allowances. 00:09:52.255 --> 00:10:01.456 On a compliance market you can also buy and sell offsets, but in a compliance market that’s a much smaller piece. 00:10:01.456 --> 00:10:16.514 The key thing I think to understand or to remember about a compliance market is that companies involved in a compliance market, or if it were in an international system, 00:10:16.514 --> 00:10:20.293 (you would probably think of countries involved in a compliance market) 00:10:20.293 --> 00:10:33.867 each entity can either reduce its own emissions by changing its behavior, or changing its operations or changing the way it manufactures its products, just as an example. 00:10:33.867 --> 00:10:43.618 In order to be able to do that quickly or cheaply, or cheap enough, it can buy allowances. 00:10:43.618 --> 00:10:52.735 Typically an allowance is given or auctioned off by the government body that oversees the market. 00:10:52.735 --> 00:11:03.877 And after they’re auctioned off, the companies that can reduce their emissions much more easily, or more cheaply, probably have an excess of allowances, 00:11:03.877 --> 00:11:17.558 and they can sell those allowances to other companies that may have a harder time or may not want to reduce their emissions directly. 00:11:17.558 --> 00:11:26.827 In a compliance market, as I mentioned, an allowance is the primary commodity that’s traded and exchanges hands, but offsets are also traded. 00:11:26.827 --> 00:11:43.539 An offset is, as I said, we’ll talk a little bit more about the definition, but an offset, for now, is a different type of commodity that companies could also use to help meet their compliance obligations. 00:11:43.539 --> 00:11:54.534 The second type of market, a voluntary market, is exactly what it sounds like. It’s a market for trading offsets that is voluntary. 00:11:54.534 --> 00:12:05.556 The buyers and sellers in this type of market enter into the arrangement where the sales are voluntary. 00:12:05.556 --> 00:12:19.270 This means that on the one hand you have sellers who are out there, I would say normally they’re non-profit entities, possibly maybe a governmental program, 00:12:19.270 --> 00:12:32.133 but most importantly they are entities that are explicitly doing projects or undertaking activities that will reduce the emission of greenhouse gases. 00:12:32.133 --> 00:12:49.477 The buyers in a voluntary market, typically corporations or maybe environmental non-profits are voluntarily purchasing offsets, and they’re driven by a variety of motivations; 00:12:49.477 --> 00:13:04.612 primarily either environmental or social concerns driven by the desire to have an impact or to put into action corporate social responsibility policies, 00:13:04.612 --> 00:13:19.679 or they may also be driven by wanting to invest in their brand or respond to customer demand for being a sustainable company or an environmentally friendly company. 00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:29.322 And this is where you see a lot of companies mainly involved in purchasing carbon offsets to build good will or as a part of a PR campaign. 00:13:29.322 --> 00:13:47.081 And as a result, the voluntary market is a bit more wide ranging than the compliance market. You have all types of companies or entities that are looking to buy offsets. 00:13:47.081 --> 00:14:05.883 You have a wide variety of project types: You can have anything from landfill methane recapture or forestry projects in the amazon or you can have energy efficiency projects like the one we’re developing with the weatherization network. 00:14:05.883 --> 00:14:28.095 And, also because there’s a wide variety of project types and the buyer sees a wider range in terms of the type of sales that are made and the prices that are received from those sales. 00:14:28.095 --> 00:14:40.121 Different types of projects can be valued differently, and different buyers have different goals, and so some may be willing to pay a premium for a certain type of project especially if they can link it back 00:14:40.121 --> 00:14:51.158 perhaps to a geographical location where their company’s located, or if it aligns with a certain larger priority focus area. 00:14:51.158 --> 00:15:13.701 So, next I want to define a little bit more what a carbon offset is. First and foremost, the easiest thing to think of is a carbon offset is a rigorously measured and independently verified reduction in greenhouse gases. 00:15:13.701 --> 00:15:18.887 As I mentioned, any offset is measured in tons of carbon dioxide equivalent. 00:15:18.887 --> 00:15:34.481 And when we use the term independently verified there are various organizations that exist as third party standards organizations. 00:15:34.481 --> 00:15:42.361 And, an example of one is the Verified Carbon Standard. 00:15:42.361 --> 00:16:02.061 The Verified Carbon Standard is one of the largest and they help set sort of the rules, and the methods, and the protocols for what a credible way to measure emissions reductions is. 00:16:02.061 --> 00:16:13.169 They also approve other entities that have experience and expertise in measuring or quantifying emissions reductions. 00:16:13.169 --> 00:16:27.444 And, those third party groups or those verifiers, as they are known, are the groups that come into a project and independently verify that when 00:16:27.444 --> 00:16:34.085 when we claim we reduced 100 tons of carbon dioxide that, in fact, that’s what we did. 00:16:34.085 --> 00:16:47.336 A carbon offset. Three things can be done: it can either be bought or sold, or it can be retired. 00:16:47.336 --> 00:17:09.981 Buying and selling is pretty straight forward. You just have a buyer or seller, and the buyer can either be a broker, or it can be a company that’s seeking to, like I mentioned, achieve some kind of environmental goal or company goal. 00:17:09.981 --> 00:17:24.677 But a final buyer can also retire carbon offsets, and when a carbon offset is retired that means that that particular offset can never be sold again. 00:17:24.677 --> 00:17:30.253 It is considered, I would say, finally accounted for. 00:17:30.253 --> 00:17:42.275 That’s one ton of carbon that has been removed from the atmosphere or has been prevented from entering the atmosphere, and it’s settled or retired. 00:17:42.275 --> 00:17:52.147 And I should mention that, we’ll go through the process a little bit during the webinar, but all carbon offsets that are verified, 00:17:52.147 --> 00:18:03.211 for example under the Verified Carbon Standard, receive a serial number, so there’s a very effective way to track and account for the carbon offsets. 00:18:03.211 --> 00:18:16.259 Each one receives a serial number, and those serial numbers help keep track of who purchases carbon offsets and also helps keep track when a carbon offset is retired. 00:18:16.259 --> 00:18:25.009 Like I mentioned before, a carbon offset is not a physical asset. It’s not something that I can send to you and you can put in a warehouse. 00:18:25.009 --> 00:18:33.960 But, what it is is an asset or commodity that gives the owner a legal right to claim a reduction in emissions. 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:50.050 In a compliance market like the California cap and trade market, the company has a legal obligation to meet a certain emissions limit. 00:18:50.050 --> 00:19:03.768 One of the ways they can do that is by buying offsets which affect the net amount of greenhouse gas emissions that that company accounts for. 00:19:03.768 --> 00:19:09.537 So, owning the offset gives you the right or the ability to claim a reduction in emissions. 00:19:09.537 --> 00:19:29.145 So, now we’ve covered a few of the definitions, and your thought might be, “Well, on the surface it seems like a really simple process, 00:19:29.145 --> 00:19:33.603 and all we need to do is to go out and do something and we’ll measure it and then I can sell it”. 00:19:33.603 --> 00:19:47.651 Those are the basic principles but it is a fairly rigorous and involved process. On the slide you should see some of the basic steps involved in generating carbon offsets. 00:19:47.651 --> 00:20:00.959 Obviously the first step would be to identify what type of project or what the activity that will reduce greenhouse gas emissions will be. 00:20:00.959 --> 00:20:14.154 When you’ve initiated a project, it’s crucial to identify which standard or which set of rules you are going to follow, and which will eventually be certifying and verifying your offsets. 00:20:14.154 --> 00:20:27.573 The NASCSP project is working under the rules of the Verified Carbon Standard. Some other examples are the Gold Standard, Clean Development Mechanism, and The American Carbon Registry. 00:20:27.573 --> 00:20:39.400 There are some others, but the key thing is that you can’t only start a project that logically on paper will reduce emissions. 00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:52.732 You have to make sure from the beginning that you understand the rules that you’re operating under and what methods they have laid out or accepted for reducing greenhouse gas emissions. 00:20:52.732 --> 00:21:00.581 And, once you’ve identified that set of rules and that process, the next step is to simply take your project and work through that process. 00:21:00.581 --> 00:21:11.385 The four key steps to that process are validation, verification, registration, and finally making a sale. 00:21:11.385 --> 00:21:17.072 The validation step actually has to do with the project itself. 00:21:17.072 --> 00:21:36.174 Under the VCS rules, NASCSP is writing what’s known as a project description. The project description lays out what our project’s goals are, what we hope to achieve, and how we hope to achieve those goals. 00:21:36.174 --> 00:21:50.185 Who will be involved, and various other elements of the program design. It includes some details about what we expect to achieve in terms of emissions reductions. 00:21:50.185 --> 00:21:54.596 And the VCS has to validate that project description. 00:21:54.596 --> 00:21:54.708 Basically, reviewing it, and signing off and saying, “This project not only adheres to the standards that we’ve set forth and follows the rules, but it also has a sound project design”. 00:21:54.708 --> 00:21:56.731 Basically that the way we’ve designed our project means that the goal we’ve set we can reasonably expect to achieve. 00:22:21.648 --> 00:22:33.386 So when we see we will reduce emissions by x-amount, if we do what we said we were going to do, then it’s reasonable to expect that we will achieve that kind of emissions reduction. 00:22:33.386 --> 00:22:43.783 Verification, the next step, is a process where in batches we’ll submit data on the project activity. 00:22:43.783 --> 00:22:51.109 In our case it’s on the weatherization of homes. 00:22:51.109 --> 00:23:00.667 Each batch of data has to be verified by that third party group. And that process involves sort of a rigorous sort of audit and review of the data that we use. 00:23:00.667 --> 00:23:19.006 And also the calculations we’ve used to determine the emissions reduction, and also sort of a programmatic review to make sure that we have all of the necessary documentation, and that we’ve run our project the way that we’ve laid out in our project description. 00:23:19.006 --> 00:23:32.382 Once your data has been verified, and the carbon offsets have been calculated from that data, those carbon offsets can be registered on a registry. 00:23:32.382 --> 00:23:38.432 There are several different registries. There are actually three major ones. We actually work with the VCS. 00:23:38.432 --> 00:23:49.870 Those registries will assign a serial number to each carbon offset and allow us to keep an account where everything is tracked. 00:23:49.870 --> 00:24:05.159 That account will show when a sale is made, and it will show which carbon offsets were sold. Obviously once those offsets are registered in the registry they are ready for sale. 00:24:05.159 --> 00:24:14.875 As soon as they are ready they can be sold, but they don’t have to be sold immediately. 00:24:14.875 --> 00:24:19.343 There is not a hard and fast expiration date. So, you have time. 00:24:19.343 --> 00:24:28.895 You can get them registered and then work out the sale that you want to make. And, we’ll talk a little about how a sale works a little bit later on. 00:24:28.895 --> 00:24:44.931 So, now I’ll just cover a little bit about NASCSP’s role. Our goal and our desire is to create a national carbon trading program that leverages additional resources for the Weatherization Assistance Program. 00:24:44.931 --> 00:24:56.779 We’re building off the foundation that was laid in the state of Maine that Jo-Ann worked on and took to the point of making a successful sale. 00:24:56.779 --> 00:25:12.780 That project did a lot. It helped establish and get the methodology approved that we use that lays out the rules of the weatherization of low-income dwellings. 00:25:12.780 --> 00:25:22.422 But, there are a lot of efficiencies and cost-savings that can be achieved by running this program on a national scale. 00:25:22.422 --> 00:25:33.863 In many ways it would not be cost effective, and this was part of Maine’s experience, to try to set up an entire program as a single state. 00:25:33.863 --> 00:25:53.188 So, NASCSP wants to make a platform that allows states to access the Carbon Markets, leverage that additional revenue at a much lower cost, at a much lower risk, and make it something available to the entire WAP network. 00:25:53.188 --> 00:26:01.297 Our role at NASCSP, the technical term is we’re the, “Project Proponent”. 00:26:01.297 --> 00:26:15.849 We’re taking on the role of developing the project of shepherding it through the VCS process of validation and verification. I want to make a point and really emphasize that we’re not taking on the role of a broker, 00:26:15.849 --> 00:26:35.874 and I think the key distinction there is a broker, while they play a very important role in carbon markets, typically the way they operate would be to buy carbon offsets from a variety of projects, from a variety of project developers. 00:26:35.874 --> 00:26:47.499 They would go about identifying different opportunities to buy offsets, and then they would re-sell them to buyers hopefully for a profit. 00:26:47.499 --> 00:27:07.283 We also want to sell our offsets for a premium price to generate that revenue that can go back to the states, but we are setting up a project that is focused on offset emissions from energy efficiency retrofit activity and from the weatherization network. 00:27:07.283 --> 00:27:16.659 We’re not going to be out there buying offsets from forestry projects or from any other kind of projects and then re-selling them for profit. 00:27:16.659 --> 00:27:37.634 Our goal is to develop this project and bring these offsets to the market ready for sale. In that role, two of our key tasks or key services are to work with states to collect the required data and to identify the 00:27:37.634 --> 00:27:44.550 necessary data systems or help maybe modify or build data systems that meet the requirements of the carbon market. 00:27:44.550 --> 00:28:06.487 And also to work with what I would call the market facing activities of marketing identifying buyers, negotiating with buyers, making sales, and sort of managing the financial transactions to make sure that the money flows back to the states in a timely fashion. 00:28:06.487 --> 00:28:17.997 Many of you who may be on the webinar we’ve probably spoken with at least a little bit and you know that one of the things we talked about a lot is data. 00:28:17.997 --> 00:28:39.307 At this point of the project one of our goals and activities is working with the weatherization network to make sure that the necessary data is collected, that it’s high quality, and that we’re identifying ways that we can access it and work with it. 00:28:39.307 --> 00:28:55.156 Sort of following in that sense is the state’s role in this project. The key state’s role is to continue as you already do to run and manage high quality weatherization assistance programs. 00:28:55.156 --> 00:29:07.134 If there’s no weatherization activity, there aren’t any homes being weatherized then there are not going to be any offsets to be sold. 00:29:07.134 --> 00:29:20.542 And so, the key role and key task for the states is to continue the high quality work that you’re already doing, and continue to innovate and improve the program. 00:29:20.542 --> 00:29:39.901 The specific detail is , as we work with you, the state’s role would be to make sure that the required data is being collected, and to make sure that that data is available or in the right format to be transferred to NASCSP and to our central database. 00:29:39.901 --> 00:29:55.375 This central database we’ll talk a little bit about in a minute, but it’s kind of the core or the workhorse for the project in terms of managing data and managing a lot of the quality assurance monitoring process. 00:29:55.375 --> 00:30:14.478 An additional role or way that states participate is to work with NASCSP and the verification body or the verifier for any of the ongoing data requests or monitoring aspects of the project. 00:30:14.478 --> 00:30:24.233 These are ongoing as carbon offsets are sold in batches, and each batch goes through a verification process. 00:30:24.233 --> 00:30:42.296 With each batch of data there are various sampling tools that can be used, and there are also different requirements for the different quality assurance measures about what amount of data is required. 00:30:42.296 --> 00:30:57.166 So, there will just be this ongoing relationship between NASCSP and the states to make sure that when it’s needed the required data is there, or maybe occasionally a site visit may be arranged. 00:30:57.166 --> 00:31:13.054 On this next slide I have a basic outline of just the process. Just to run through it again visually so that we’re all on the same page. As you can see it all starts with weatherizing a home. 00:31:13.054 --> 00:31:18.297 When a home is weatherized, that leads to a direct reduction in carbon emissions. 00:31:18.297 --> 00:31:32.043 If we’re able to measure that reduction in carbon emissions according to a validated methodology, which is the rules or the methodology set out by the VCS, then we can move forward. 00:31:32.043 --> 00:31:41.466 The data used to measure that emissions reduction would be sent to NASCSP and entered into our Carbon Data Repository (CDR). 00:31:41.466 --> 00:31:52.862 That data is then verified by a third party verifier, and once they have verified and approved it it will be recorded in a registry. 00:31:52.862 --> 00:32:13.298 Like I said earlier, once it’s registered it’s ready for a sale. We are at this point are focusing on and emphasizing the voluntary market. It’s an interesting question and remains to be seen how exactly we’ll engage with compliance markets, 00:32:13.298 --> 00:32:20.194 but we think there will be some opportunities to work with compliance markets at some point. 00:32:20.194 --> 00:32:34.464 Our key target right now is to sell offsets into the voluntary market. Once the buyer purchases the offsets, that generates revenue for the program and that revenue flows back to the states, 00:32:34.464 --> 00:32:41.193 flows back into the weatherization program, and supports the weatherization of more homes. 00:32:41.193 --> 00:32:53.717 So that’s kind of the process for how this whole project works. At this point, I’m going to turn it over to Alice Gaston. 00:32:53.717 --> 00:33:17.829 Alice Gaston: Thanks, Eric. We’ll just go one more slide. Eric Stam: Yeah, let’s see. You should be able to click through now. Alice Gaston: Nope. 00:33:17.829 --> 00:33:32.077 Eric Stam: Alright, try now. Alice Gaston: There we go. Alright, again, my name is Alice Gaston, and if you have dealt with Eric or I in the last six months, we’ve probably sent you a very long spreadsheet 00:33:32.077 --> 00:33:43.097 that had probably two-hundred different data points and asking for different data elements that probably took you a very long time to fill out. 00:33:43.097 --> 00:33:50.795 And, really, the reason for that, just to kind of go off of what Eric said, is that data really is the key to our project. 00:33:50.795 --> 00:33:59.327 We really need to be able to show that when a carbon offset is put into one of those registries that we can really trace it back to a specific place. 00:33:59.327 --> 00:34:06.722 And, that’s really one of the strengths of our project is that many people aren’t able to trace back… they forge projects. 00:34:06.722 --> 00:34:14.707 You know that trees reduce carbon emissions, but you can’t trace a specific carbon reduction back to a single tree. 00:34:14.707 --> 00:34:27.625 With the weatherization program we can trace something back to a single house. We can say that carbon offset number “345” came from 123 Main St. in Anytown USA. 00:34:27.625 --> 00:34:41.187 And we say these are the measures that happened to it, this is the reason that the client was eligible, and we can really come up with about two-hundred different data points go prove that the reductions we say happened, happened. 00:34:41.187 --> 00:34:58.332 Now that list that we’ve sent, and if you have not gotten it yet we will be sending it very soon, it looks very long and scary when you get it, but the really great thing about this project is that probably of the two-hundred data points, you all probably collect 90% of them already. 00:34:58.332 --> 00:35:06.798 Again, most of the project we’re trying to build is building it off the back of the weatherization program. So we’re really not trying to add anything on. 00:35:06.798 --> 00:35:18.827 We’re just really trying to see how you collect information and in what form you collect information. There are going to be a few things that you’re going to have to add to your project, but, again, probably 00:35:18.827 --> 00:35:35.463 90% of the data you collect, like the location of the home, the measures that were done, client eligibility, all of these things are already being collected by your sub-grantees. So really, the project is just building off of the great weatherization work that we’re already doing. 00:35:35.463 --> 00:35:52.508 Now, what we’re going to do with that data is we’re really trying to get to the point with all states is that all you have to do is press a button once a year or maybe twice a year and all of that data is going to be directly uploaded into what we call the Carbon Data Repository (CDR). 00:35:52.508 --> 00:36:05.441 And everyone should be so thankful for this because the great thing about the CDR is that it’s going to do all of the quantifications and calculations. 00:36:05.441 --> 00:36:15.722 It’s basically going to adjust for things like that it’s warmer in Georgia than it is in Michigan, that part of Michigan happens to use coal power and the other part only happens to use nuclear. 00:36:15.722 --> 00:36:28.580 It’s going to adjust for things like people moving, for homes burning down. It’s really going to take into account all of these different things and then be able to spit out a specific carbon reductions for each home that we put into it. 00:36:28.580 --> 00:36:40.019 It’s really going to be the workhorse behind the project, and it’s really going to make it so that the work for the states, primarily, is going to be giving us that good quality data. 00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:57.930 And we will be able to give you, actually, from the CDR, give you reports back. So, we hope that the CDR will be another tool in your monitoring tool belt so we can say, “Hey, this home seems to have one or two red flags. You might just want to go back and check on it”. 00:36:57.930 --> 00:37:10.296 So the CDR is really going to be the backbone of our project, and it’s really going to be there to help quantify all of these reductions that we keep talking about. 00:37:10.296 --> 00:37:19.604 You might be asking yourself what the heck we’re going to do with all of this data, and as Eric said before we are going to try to sell it. 00:37:19.604 --> 00:37:31.529 Actually, we are going to sell it, and we’re going to sell it in what they call batches or “vintages”. What that really means is that the CDR is going to measure the carbon reductions on each home, and that we 00:37:31.529 --> 00:37:41.073 are going to aggregate it, so that we are going to mix carbon savings from Oregon, carbon offsets from New York, Texas, and aggregate them all together. 00:37:41.073 --> 00:37:52.467 And the reason that we’re really doing that is that, when Eric talked before about that verification process, we are going to have to take a sample of homes to be verified. 00:37:52.467 --> 00:38:05.171 The great thing is the sample doesn’t get any larger no matter how many homes we add, so if you were trying to do this on a state-by-state basis you would have to have a larger batch of your homes verified. 00:38:05.171 --> 00:38:12.831 If we do it on a national scale, we are taking a sample of 100,000 homes as opposed to maybe 1,000 per single state. 00:38:12.831 --> 00:38:19.719 So we’re really trying to achieve economies of scale by working on a national scale. 00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:34.624 Once we aggregate all of those, it is going to go through the verification process, and again, this is why good data is so key because there are going to be third party verifiers coming in asking to look at specific documents, 00:38:34.624 --> 00:38:39.894 asking to look at specific data points from specific homes. 00:38:39.894 --> 00:38:51.260 But, again, the sample size is going to be fairly small which is really to our benefit. Then once that sample has gone through verification, they will verify them. 00:38:51.260 --> 00:39:03.933 They will say, “Yes, we believe that when the carbon project form NASCSP says that it saved two tons of carbon from 123 Main St. that they really mean that they saved two tons of carbon from 123 Main St. 00:39:03.933 --> 00:39:12.419 So once they get that stamp of approval, as Eric said before, it’s going to go into one of these carbon registries, and it’s going to be a specific vintage. 00:39:12.419 --> 00:39:27.714 Now you might be reading the next slide and thinking, “Great! Weatherization doesn’t just save energy in a home for the first year it saves it year after year. So, twenty years… that’s the life of a typical weatherization measure. 00:39:27.714 --> 00:39:45.162 Twenty years and they keep talking about two tons per year”. And, if you’re thinking $20/ton, that’s about $800 per home. But the kind of tricky thing is you can’t just, in one of these vintages, sell all twenty years’ worth of carbon savings. 00:39:45.162 --> 00:39:59.524 You’re really going to have to do it on what we think will be an annual, or even a little over annual basis. But the great thing is that when you are doing these carbon savings, weatherization measures do last year after year. 00:39:59.524 --> 00:40:26.579 So you do get the aggregate effect, and you will see a compounding effect as we go through the years, but you don’t get to sell it all up front at the very beginning. In the next slide we’ll see what will be a table showing how the revenue will kind of compound year after year. 00:40:26.579 --> 00:40:35.815 You’ll see a table showing how the revenue will kind of compound year after year. So in the first year you’re only going to be selling the units that you’ve weatherized that year. 00:40:35.815 --> 00:40:45.644 And, again we’ve decided that two tons per home per year at about $20/ton. In the second year, the great thing is you’re not only selling homes you weatherized the first year, you’re also selling homes you weatherized in year one. 00:40:45.644 --> 00:41:00.186 In year three, again, you’re selling the homes you weatherized year three, but you’re also selling year one and two as well. The more homes you weatherize, the more carbon you will be able to sell to put back into the program to weatherize more homes. 00:41:00.186 --> 00:41:11.214 And, we may be asking some of you, if you did a particularly large number of homes during the recovery act in year 2012, we might be asking you to go back to try and get some of that data. 00:41:11.214 --> 00:41:23.991 But it’s going to be a little bit more difficult than trying to just gather it going forward, but again, if you can get the right data on some of the homes you did during the recovery act in 2012 you can sell carbon offsets on it for the next 20-30 years. 00:41:23.991 --> 00:41:33.717 Which is really… when you’re looking at tight budgets some of these leverage funds might make a significant difference. 00:41:33.717 --> 00:41:41.994 So, you might be thinking to yourself, “Oh, great! These numbers are awesome, but who the heck is going to buy all these tons of carbon that we’re coming up with”. 00:41:41.994 --> 00:41:53.749 And as Eric said before, we’re really working in the voluntary market, so there’s not some big oil company that’s being told that they have to reduce their carbon emissions, and if they don’t then the government is going to fine them. 00:41:53.749 --> 00:42:07.509 That’s really not the type of company or the type of organization that we’re primarily looking to market to. As Eric said, we might look into some type of compliance market… work on some compliance market issues later on. 00:42:07.509 --> 00:42:21.003 But right now we’re really working on and looking into companies, universities, non-profits. Anyone that really has an environmental concern and really wants to support weatherization work and what it is that we’re doing. 00:42:21.003 --> 00:42:32.291 Again, not only is the carbon trading project really unique in the sense that we can trace carbon emissions back to the single dwelling, it’s also a social good. 00:42:32.291 --> 00:42:43.244 You’re not only supporting environmental goods, you’re supporting helping low-income people live in cleaner, safer, more energy-efficient homes. That’s a pretty unique commodity, we think. 00:42:43.244 --> 00:42:55.326 We think that’s also going to drive a higher price and is something that NASCSP will really be able to make a brand around and really make our product something that people will want to get behind and will really want to support. 00:42:55.326 --> 00:43:17.185 And if they’ll pay a premium for that support. Now what you saw in the previous slide, we are thinking it’s going to be about 2 tons/home, and that’s going to change depending on what state you’re in, what kind of fuel you use, and a number of other factors that my tech people can discuss much better than I can. 00:43:17.185 --> 00:43:32.474 We think it will trade about 2 tons/home at about $20/ton, is what we’re thinking. That’s unfortunately not a guarantee because everyone knows that commodity markets go up and down, but we’re hoping that the solid, 00:43:32.474 --> 00:43:49.856 middle-of-the-road estimate, as Eric said before, you have no… you’re not compelled… once the reductions go onto one of the market places, we don’t have to sell them. The nice thing is, we can sit around and wait for the right buyer. 00:43:49.856 --> 00:44:11.795 We’re not going to be forced to sell our offsets for $1 or $2/ton, which if you ever go and look up some compliance market carbon offsets, some of the prices they’ve been trading at, depending on what market they’re on, can be as low as $1-$2. But we’re thinking with our unique brand, we’ll be able to get more than that. 00:44:11.795 --> 00:44:21.225 So you’re also asking, “What can happen to the money?” The money is going to flow back directly to state weatherization programs. 00:44:21.225 --> 00:44:36.769 We’re really hoping to make it so that in the contracts we write that any money will be specifically earmarked to go to weatherization mostly because we’re concerned that some states might… 00:44:36.769 --> 00:44:53.885 some states may think funding shortfalls will be excited to see additional funding coming in, but this money is really meant to generate funds for the weatherization program and will send revenues back to the program so you can weatherize more homes so that you can generate more carbon offsets. 00:44:53.885 --> 00:45:09.514 So finally, I believe Jo-Ann is going to talk a little bit about what’s going to be on the horizon going forward and what you can expect to hear from us in the near future. 00:45:09.514 --> 00:45:15.083 Very good. Thank you, Alice and Eric. You did a great job. 00:45:15.083 --> 00:45:29.211 What we are working on right now, as most of you on the line know that we’ve been working directly with you to gather data and to review your process for the program. So that’s an ongoing. 00:45:29.211 --> 00:45:51.080 We have about 40 states now that we’re working with to help them through this process. We are now working with our contractors to validate the project description (PD) that we are submitting, and we are on a schedule to hopefully have that approved… 00:45:51.080 --> 00:46:03.831 have our project description approved by the first of June if not a little earlier. In order to do that we’ll still be coming after you asking you for additional data for the additionality 00:46:03.831 --> 00:46:13.209 that we have to verify for the program and then the small amount of sampling that Alice had mentioned. 00:46:13.209 --> 00:46:25.769 Some of you have already gotten a request and there’s more that’s coming up with individual states asking you for a number of households to submit some data on, so we are in the process of doing that. 00:46:25.769 --> 00:46:33.283 We do have to have that data in order to have that PD approved. And the PD is the Project Description. 00:46:33.283 --> 00:46:53.876 I keep calling it that, so… just to let you know. We are also in the process right now… it shouldn’t be much longer… about another week or two to have the contract for the states that are moving forward to participate in the program so that we can sign the contracts. 00:46:53.876 --> 00:47:15.322 We are collecting the disclosure forms from each individual state that we have talked with, and we are going to be providing you with the form for the homeowner to sign releasing the carbon offsets to the weatherization program… to NASCSP for the weatherization program. 00:47:15.322 --> 00:47:23.335 So those are the activities we’re going on right now that we’re hopefully going to have out to you all very shortly. 00:47:23.335 --> 00:47:40.044 So the process that we are working with is each individual state and helping them with their systems and what they need to do as far as collecting data they don’t currently have. 00:47:40.044 --> 00:47:52.601 And even though we have less data that we have to collect for the verification process, we do have to make sure that you do have that information, 00:47:52.601 --> 00:48:08.342 and so through this process we’ve been able to work and identify things that need to be added to the documentation that you may not currently document. It may be at the sub-grantees or wherever. 00:48:08.342 --> 00:48:13.722 But we are hoping that we are identifying those and we are submitting reports out as we go through that. 00:48:13.722 --> 00:48:33.879 And we do have, not sure…maybe Eric will know how many states that are just currently starting that process. So as we go through those reports, we analyze them, we will send out a report to you folks to give you that update. 00:48:33.879 --> 00:48:52.577 The general timeline that we have for this project – and I know I’m moving quickly here – we are hoping to have a signed contract by a buyer by July 1st, and ready to sell carbon hopefully by the end of the year 00:48:52.577 --> 00:48:59.101 if not by the end of September for at least a few states that have been working very hard and gotten their data to us. 00:48:59.101 --> 00:49:16.186 Right now it’s looking like three to four states may be able to do that. We hope to have all of the states signed up for this program by the end of 2013, if not, then by March 1st 2014. 00:49:16.186 --> 00:49:29.790 So those are the goals that we have right now. So things are moving along. We have a short period of time to accomplish all of this and I do want to say that 00:49:29.790 --> 00:49:41.464 it has been great working with the states that we have been doing this with over the last few months. We did start this project in August, so we really got a lot done, 00:49:41.464 --> 00:49:56.244 and we really appreciate all of your participation. For those states that have not signed up yet we are more than happy to work with you to help you through that process and want to get you on board with this project. 00:49:56.244 --> 00:50:13.160 I haven’t seen many questions come in. If you have any questions please feel free to email them, or we can open it up and take questions now if everybody’s ready. 00:50:13.160 --> 00:50:28.517 Eric Stam: Jo-Ann, we have had one or two questions come in. We have one question… well kind of a two-part question about how much carbon has been sold on the voluntary market and also a question about the current market price. 00:50:28.517 --> 00:50:54.792 Just as a rough marker, in 2011 the voluntary market transacted around 95 million tons of carbon dioxide equivalents, so that’s kind of a sense for the yearly transaction. 00:50:54.792 --> 00:51:01.673 The actual amount that’s been sold up to this date since the beginning, I’m not sure about that figure. 00:51:01.673 --> 00:51:23.352 And on the voluntary market it’s very difficult to quote a current market price. Many folks may think of the New York Stock Exchange where you can go and you can really quickly look up a company like Google or Microsoft, 00:51:23.352 --> 00:51:41.164 and you can look up what their stock price is. The voluntary market for carbon is a bit different because the sales are not made on a spot market, which is the legal term for the New York Stock Exchange. 00:51:41.164 --> 00:51:48.025 It’s more of a longer process of identifying buyers and negotiating sales and signing a deal. 00:51:48.025 --> 00:52:09.295 And so because of that there’s a wide variety of sales and prices. And that - just to give an example - that range, at least in the survey of 2011 activities, ranged anywhere from $1-$2 all the way up to $100/ton. 00:52:09.295 --> 00:52:25.327 Again the voluntary market is very diverse so it’s hard to quote, or, it’s hard to identify what the current market price is at any one given time. It depends more on what buyer you’re dealing with. 00:52:25.327 --> 00:52:31.769 Jo-Anne Choate: Eric, you want to touch a little bit more on the branding of the product too? Will that make a difference? 00:52:31.769 --> 00:52:56.320 Eric Stam: Certainly. So as Alice certainly mentioned, as we’ve gotten this project started and as we are working with the weatherization network, we really feel that carbon offsets from the weatherization program have a very high value because they don’t only have an environmental impact. 00:52:56.320 --> 00:53:17.775 These weatherization activities also have a social and community impact in that they create a higher quality of life for the occupants in the house, they create health and safety, they also put more disposable income in that person’s pocket. 00:53:17.775 --> 00:53:25.485 So we think there’s a really comprehensive impact, and we sort of want to make that the foundation of what our offset brand is. 00:53:25.485 --> 00:53:35.457 We know that in the voluntary market there has been, over the last several years, there has been controversy with different types of projects. 00:53:35.457 --> 00:53:58.405 I want to say a lot of them have revolved around forestry based projects, but there has been some controversy about being able to track back the claims you make to real credible proof (i.e., demonstrating where the emissions reductions were made, what project activity they correspond to and things of that nature). 00:53:58.405 --> 00:54:19.768 And so our project, because it relies heavily on data, because we can track that data, because the homes that are weatherized are tangible sites, we think we have a high credibility, an ability to demonstrate that our reductions emissions are real and permanent which we think will drive a higher price. 00:54:19.768 --> 00:54:41.506 Because we can track it back and relate our offsets geographically. That’s another way that we can interact with buyers. If there’s a regional buyer or someone who wants to invest in their community or in their state, we have some ability to work with them in that way. 00:54:41.506 --> 00:54:59.760 Alice Gaston: Eric, we have another good question about if the state wants to be involved and they’re not involved yet, what should they do to start getting involved. 00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:14.626 Eric Stam: If a state is not yet involved but they want to get involved the best thing to do at this point would be to email us, 00:55:14.626 --> 00:55:30.812 and I’m going to put up a slide that has our contact information. So email us or give us a call, and the first tangible step is that we can work with you to do a basic assessment of your data systems and data collection. 00:55:30.812 --> 00:55:49.353 That helps us put a marker in the sand and say, “Hey, how close or far away are you in terms of being able to collect the necessary data and transfer it?” That’s kind of the first step of the process. 00:55:49.353 --> 00:56:06.772 At the same time, if you have further questions or want to talk about it more broadly feel free to give us a call or give Jo-Ann a call and talk further about what it would mean to be involved. I would say that’s the first key step is we can do that assessment. 00:56:06.772 --> 00:56:28.039 Alice Gaston: We also had another question about the requirements for maintaining some of this data and… not necessarily maintaining but for ongoing efforts. And, again, I said that you can sell carbon emissions on a home for about 20 years. 00:56:28.039 --> 00:56:40.683 And I know that we have made some states very nervous by the fact that we’ve told them in the past that they’re going to have to go through and collect consumption data for the next 20 years on every home they weatherize. 00:56:40.683 --> 00:56:54.930 Thankfully, depending on the method that you use, and we’ll talk about this more in future webinars, there are different ways that you can measure carbon, and our project description lays out four different ways that we can do it. 00:56:54.930 --> 00:57:07.371 One of the ways is if you use a pre and post blower door reading or pre and post audit on all your homes then you will just need to collect a sample from the homes you do. 00:57:07.371 --> 00:57:24.379 Going forward you will need to collect a sample of consumption bills for some of those homes, but we are happy to say for the next 20 years that you will not go through and collect consumption bills on every home that you weatherize from now on. 00:57:24.379 --> 00:57:35.810 Eric Stam: Thanks, Alice. Jo-Ann Choate: Any other questions? 00:57:35.810 --> 00:57:51.921 Eric Stam: We had one question about the restricted or unrestricted nature of the income that this project will generate. Jo-Ann, do you want to address that question? 00:57:51.921 --> 00:57:57.988 Jo-Ann Choate: By restricted do you mean how it’s either program income or leveraging funds? 00:57:57.988 --> 00:58:01.651 Eric Stam: Right along those lines, I think. 00:58:01.651 --> 00:58:14.353 Jo-Ann Choate: Ok, we’re working right now trying to… we’re actually having the lawyers review that to determine whether or not it’s program income or leveraging. 00:58:14.353 --> 00:58:35.696 Right now it’s how you interpret that. We want clarification on that. It was stated at a conference last week that it would be program income, but it would be flexible program income if the states receive the money after the program year, has actually closed down. 00:58:35.696 --> 00:58:59.807 Leveraging is also what we have been looking at as well. We are getting clarification on that, and we’ll let states know once we have legal interpretation, whether it can be leveraging. 00:58:59.807 --> 00:59:28.182 Eric Stam: There was one other question about having legal authority on the claims. I imagine there are several different ways to interpret what the question is asking, but at least one of the points I think we can address is that there have been questions as we’ve been working on this project and working with states. 00:59:28.182 --> 00:59:41.261 Questions about whether a utility, for example, could claim the emissions reductions or if there is a danger of double counting and those sorts of issues. 00:59:41.261 --> 01:00:02.575 At this point the two main features are, in certain situations, so far they have proven to be few situations, if there is a law or a piece of legislation passed that explicitly assigns 01:00:02.575 --> 01:00:17.521 or says that utility companies have a claim to emissions reductions then we would not be able to count the electricity portions of the weatherization savings. 01:00:17.521 --> 01:00:39.843 In other context, if there is not any kind of compliance market or cap and trade scheme in place, as far as we can tell, and we continue to look into it, but, as far as we can tell the utilities would not have any specific or prior claim to the offsets that were generated. 01:00:39.843 --> 01:00:47.393 And, part of what we’re doing and part of the project that we’re developing is really being able to quantify and identify those savings. 01:00:47.393 --> 01:00:59.012 We actually have the greatest ability to make those claims because we have the data to back it up and can point to it. However, 01:00:59.012 --> 01:01:07.831 without the form signed by the client none of us have the right to it. So those are the steps we have to take to have ownership of the carbon. 01:01:07.831 --> 01:01:19.234 Alice Gaston: We had another question, Eric, about carbon taxes and how those may affect our program. 01:01:19.234 --> 01:01:28.057 Eric Stam: Right. Carbon taxes are very fashionable these days, but it will be interesting to see what happens. 01:01:28.057 --> 01:01:47.196 As far as I understand it, and I think this is another one of those topics that we need to stay on top of and continue to research, if a carbon tax were to be integrated either on a national level or say a 01:01:47.196 --> 01:01:58.453 specific state implements carbon tax, I don’t believe that it would directly affect our ability to sell carbon offsets. 01:01:58.453 --> 01:02:21.510 And the reason for that is this: if a carbon tax operates on the idea that an entity, probably an electricity generator or a power generator or a manufacturer or any other type of company has to pay a tax on each ton of carbon that they emit, so let’s say $20/ton. 01:02:21.510 --> 01:02:41.024 In that kind of situation, there’s no trading, there is no buying and selling of allowances or anything like that on the part of a company or a power generator or a utility company. 01:02:41.024 --> 01:02:49.805 I believe that in such a situation there would still be a demand or a need for offsets for two reasons. 01:02:49.805 --> 01:03:07.601 One, there is still the motivator that companies would want to engage with their customers and want to engage with customer demand for sustainable business practices or environmentally friendly supply chains. 01:03:07.601 --> 01:03:25.881 Our offset project is directly reducing emissions that would have occurred otherwise. A carbon tax is just trying to create an incentive not to emit greenhouse gases. 01:03:25.881 --> 01:03:37.430 But even with a tax we know that a certain level of emissions will occur, and our project is actually able to quantifiably reduce that emission. 01:03:37.430 --> 01:04:01.691 The second thing is that at this point, I just want to make clear this is pure speculation, a carbon tax would be fairly complicated to implement It would really depend on how the rules were written specifically with what number a company would have to use to determine their tax liability. 01:04:01.691 --> 01:04:18.513 If a manufacturer in your state, just for the sake of example, emits 100 tons of greenhouse gases and they have to pay taxes on what they’ve emitted, I would assume that their starting point would be 100 tons. 01:04:18.513 --> 01:04:30.596 And the key rule-making-question would be whether, for the purposes of a tax liability, companies would be allowed to buy offsets to reduce their tax liability. 01:04:30.596 --> 01:04:49.589 So if a company emits 100 tons of carbon dioxide or of greenhouse gases from their operations, but they also purchased 25 tons worth of offsets then the taxable portion of their emissions would be 75 tons. 01:04:49.589 --> 01:04:57.431 Like I said, that example is pure speculation in terms of it would really depend on how those rules were set up. 01:04:57.431 --> 01:05:16.002 The answer I want to get through, I guess, is that if a carbon tax is implemented or integrated in a state, we have not come across a reason why that would invalidate your state from participating in our project. 01:05:16.002 --> 01:05:44.680 Alice Gaston: I think one of the only other points that we really want to make is that at different conferences and different directives from DOE we’ve all heard of the need to increase standards in that DOE is really going to be looking in the weatherization 2015 commission and beyond. 01:05:44.680 --> 01:05:48.761 Really trying to increase the standards and work quality through weatherization. 01:05:48.761 --> 01:05:59.102 One of the reasons that we keep harping about data and good quality data is that those standards should be in place. 01:05:59.102 --> 01:06:15.624 If they’re done and if you raise those standards for a project, if you collect data in ways that you haven’t before, if you have access to more data than you’ve ever had before, both for monitoring and for our project, you’re going to be able to see a leveraged return. 01:06:15.624 --> 01:06:34.872 As we all know, there have been a number of future directives that are going to be coming down about trying to increase work quality, and as we all know, program funding has been dropping steadily for the last couple of years. 01:06:34.872 --> 01:06:44.781 This is one of the few ways that we really think that you can increase your work quality and increase monitoring and really see a leverage return back from it 01:06:44.781 --> 01:06:55.023 because the better data that you send to us the more we’re going to be able to get out of your data and the more carbon we’ll be able to sell for you and the more funds will come back to your state. 01:06:55.023 --> 01:07:07.844 Jo-Ann Choate: Are there any other questions? 01:07:07.844 --> 01:07:27.432 Eric Stam: I think that’s all the questions we have now. For anybody on the call, if you feel like we didn’t get to your question, or if maybe we didn’t answer it quite the way you meant, we’ll try to follow up with you if you asked a question, 01:07:27.432 --> 01:07:39.736 but feel free to contact us and follow up. We love talking about this stuff, so please pursue it until you’re satisfied. Other than that, I don’t think there are any more questions. 01:07:39.736 --> 01:07:48.335 Jo-Ann Choate: Well, thank you all very much, I appreciate it. Again, you have our contact information. We are at NASCSP so feel free to contact us. 01:07:48.335 --> 01:08:03.243 Anybody that is on new today and wants to join, by all means, give us a call. We would like to help you through this process. We look forward to hopefully providing another one next month, 01:08:03.243 --> 01:08:15.259 another webinar for everybody that will be a little more detailed than this one. Thank you all, again, and thank you, Eric and Alice. You did a fantastic job. 01:08:15.259 --> 01:08:29.371 Eric: Thanks, Jo-Ann. And one last comment that I would make really quick is that we recorded this webinar and assuming that the recording turned out we will try to have that available. 01:08:29.371 --> 01:08:33.371 If there were some staff members in your office that weren’t able to make it on this webinar, we will follow up with you about that. Thanks, everyone.