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Globally, UNAIDS has estimated that as many as 42 million people are infected with HIV.

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10 people reportedly die from AIDS every second.

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There's nothing like it.

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There's no disease, no infectious disease that essentially kills everyone who gets it.

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The fear factor's gone.

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And yet, getting HIV infection is a problem for any individual.

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The fear should still remain because it's a virus that kills people.

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There is this sensitive composing see, that it's better and it isn't better

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and all these people... These 40 plus million people living with the virus...

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They would die of AIDS.

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Over the past three decades humanity is rallied together for the AIDS cause.

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People from all walks of life have united across all social and economic and boundaries

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joining hand in hand for one common purpose - to end AIDS.

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And I want you to say the name of the person you're walking for.

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I'm walking for Robert Jonson.

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I'm walking for Rod Hudson.

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I'm walking for everybody that isn't here to walk for themselves.

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The statistics are growing.

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All except for one.

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That's the amount of people cured and it's still zero.

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In theory we can cure AIDS, on a piece of paper. Maybe some day it will come. I can't say when.

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Despite all the major progress we have in chemotherapy of those patients

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none of these patients got rid of the virus.

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I don't think the pharmaceutical industry is very interested or invested in a cure.

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You know. I don't mean to be too cynical but the reality, I think is that, you know

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the situation they've got now which is lifetime treatment with expensive drugs,

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that kind of suits them pretty well.

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A cure is gonna require some very tricky and sophisticated molecular biology.

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And I franklly, don't see it happening.

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Never?
-Ever.

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House of Numbers
anatomy of an epidemic

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I was born in 1980. A year before AIDS exploded onto the public consciousness.

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I grew up beneath that shadow, like a child raised under the threat of the mushroom clowd.

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You might say I'm a member of the first HIV age generation.

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I've never known a world without it.

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This film is an account of my journey to the shifting sands rounding HIV/AIDS.

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AIDS has been front page news for nearly thirty years.

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Yet how much do any of us realy know about HIV and AIDS?

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What is the difference between HIV and AIDS?

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H... I don't know exactly.

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HIV is... WOW.

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HIV is a virus.

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AIDS is the sickness.

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So they are totally different.

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It's the actual disease...

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I don't know. I don't know the difference.

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I know that HIV is less deadly.

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For me there is necessarily any. It's true there is no difference between the two.

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What would you say is the difference between HIV and AIDS?

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There is not a big difference is it?

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HIV is just the starting point.

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HIV is a virus.

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The actual virus is AIDS.

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People around the globe are just as confused as I was.

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So I sat at the world's leading HIV/AIDS authorities.

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Among whom were the discoverers of HIV, the key white house adviser of AIDS issues and

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the executive director of UNAIDS global response to the epidemic.

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Meeting with these distinguished experts I candidly asked.

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What is the difference between HIV and AIDS?

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The difference between HIV and AIDS is a really critical concept and unfortunately

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gets one that seams to escape a lot of people or they just don't remember it

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after hearing it.

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HIV is a virus. AIDS is a syndrome caused by infection with the virus.

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See you don't get infected with AIDS. You get infected with HIV and that causes AIDS.

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The biggest problem with the HIV theory of AIDS is HIV.

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There is a group of AIDS deniers that say that HIV does not exist and it has never

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been isolated.

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Which is as bizarre as it gets.

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We do not say that HIV doesn't exist.

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What we say is that presently available data does not prove the existence of HIV.

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The reality is that HIV does exist and does cause AIDS.

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I mean the evidence is incontrovertible. HIV causes AIDS.

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Alright that's the theory that's there. Let that theory be there.

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Well let's have some other conversations, lets hove some other research

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maybe something else is working here. NO.

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Why nearly three decades since its discovery is there continue to be debate over HIV?

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Why is there no cure insight?

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To answer these questions i needed context.

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The past is prologue so my journey begins with a step back in time.

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The national center for disease control is reporting more cases of two rare

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and deadly diseases found in homosexual men.

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There is no apparent explanation for the outbreak.

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Obviously this is an issue of great emotional...

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How can we stay uninvolved when people are dying every day from a disease

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that CDC hasn't yet named for crying out loud?

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If the CDC won't name it, at least demand the press stop calling it GRID.

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Well, unfortunately I have to take credit for quanting the term - GRID which stood

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for Gay Related Immune Deficiency.

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We were seeing a cluster of gay man

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who were suddenly critically ill of Pneumocystis pneumonia which was the indicator disease

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of something new and reported our findings to the CDC.

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I was the chief of the STD division at the CDC at that time

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when the draft report of Pneumocystis in gay men came across my desk for review.

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Surely afterwords cases of a very rare cancer called Kaposi's sarcoma

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were diagnosed in young gay men.

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My first reaction was - this is an extraordinary important finding.

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The CDC was looking for something like that when it came along.

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They were looking it already. They were hopping there was gonna be a new plague

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because polio was over. The CDC budged was getting decreased.

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This is back in like early 80's.

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There was double digit inflation.

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And very high unemployment.

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And a rapid military build-up.

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And a threat to decrease all domestic programs and this led to reductions in force

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and public health service, particularity in CDC.

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The center of disease control (CDC) in Atlanta was under threat for reduction and

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even theoretically for closure.

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There were memos around the CDC saying "We need to find a new plague".

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For them to justify their expenses and their existence and make their careers

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they have to find infectious diseases.

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We needed to find something that would scare the American people

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so they would wan to give us more money.

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Once people recognized that this was likely caused by virus the media tension went

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from "no news coverage" to the most covered news story in history.

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People went from neglecting it to fear and panic.

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"Maybe I can get it."

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Al of the sudden AIDS was very fundable project.

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And I suppose the psychology they worked on was the fact that they told in congress.

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Essentially this is white straight heterosexual men who are the congressmen.

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And they feel they can't fuck around or being worried about AIDS and kind of let the dollars out.

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And it worked.

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Suddenly there was a lot of money available for anybody who wanted to study HIV.

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And nobody looked back and said WHY?

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Do we want to study HIV?

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Bob Gallo said on television - it causes AIDS.

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The evidence show that this disease is not nearly confined to the gay community.

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I motion to call the disease Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome - AIDS.

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In 1982 Dr. Harry Haverkos was one of the CDC's epidemiologists tasked with defining AIDS.

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AIDS referees to a syndrome and its definition changes periodically.

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AIDS is a chronic disease it's based on immunodeficiency.

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AIDS is not a disease alright? AIDS a whole lot of different things.

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Depends on what country you are in.

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When your CD4 count false below a certain arbitrary level by definition you have AIDS.

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You know if someone's T-count goes down and it goes back up again it's you know

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politically they might still have AIDS. Medically I don't think they do.

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If you develop any of a number of opportunistic infections or diseases that

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puts in the category of AIDS.

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We don't even know what AIDS is. AIDS is so hard to define.

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Could change the definition of it every year.

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The definition of AIDS has broadened over time which revised in 1985.

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Then again in 1987.

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The changes in the definition have been political.

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Every time they change the definition the numbers go up.

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The definition has changed many times. The biggest change was probably in 1993.

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Which they, you know, added the CD4 count, the NHIV.

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You see, you could not even be ill but if you have CD4 count contrastingly below

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below 200 you have AIDS.

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A closer look at the CDC's documents reveals that AIDS numbers actually declined in 1993.

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But a retroactive definition change increase the estimates by more than 100%.

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The more diseases they could lump into this AIDS symptom...

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S stands for symptom...

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The better the chances are they get patients under their umbrella.

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The more patients they could catch.

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As time goes along, you know, definitions get used for variety of issues and some of

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those are not based sorely on scientific decisions but politics

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and capitalism and reimbursement comes into play.

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For example person with hepatitis C say here in San Francisco.

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you got a hepatitis C and only hepatitis C, you're shit out of luck.

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Having an AIDS diagnosis you know, I get a free apartment. The city of

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San Diego pays for apartment.

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I can have the state of California pay for many medications related to HIV.

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I get social security benefits.

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I can get discounts on my supplements at the local health food store.

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I also get food stamps and in home supportive cleaning services.

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So I was basically a healthy person walking around and yet I had all these wonderful little perks.

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You get all the benefits. I mean that we fought for and got.

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But the end result has been a certain imbalance.

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I mean where you succeeded... I'm glad we did. But it is a little unfair.

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Politics, insurance, capitalism, benefits. You can be sick or healthy.

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I never would have thought that AIDS was so convoluted.

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Wright. What I said. That has changed. How you define that scientifically has changed

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quite often.

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Which makes it difficult, you know for the people to understand.

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It makes it difficult to me to interpret the numbers.

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Africa is reported to have the highest incidents of AIDS cases on the planet.

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So I tripped to South Africa to witness first hand the impact of AIDS on that troubled continent.

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Around 10 million of South Africa's 48 million people have been reported to have AIDS.

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Is only a 10 minute drive from Cape Town pristine modern airport to the squatter of neighborhood

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said to ravaged by AIDS.

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its world AIDS day. The functions, the gatherings, the international theme is stop AIDS,

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stop HIV and AIDS.

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Keep the promise.

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So many years later they keep saying the same things.

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HIV, HIV, HIV...

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Each time I hear words like HIV and AIDS I just want to put my had out.

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I'm just so fatigued about how we've packaged the messaging.

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Only talk about is AIDS. Its a sex virus. You have to use condoms or you die.

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So sick of this message.

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People cant think outside AIDS anymore. It's just a shocking sad reality.

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The first AIDS meeting on the continent of Africa was in 1985 in Bangui.

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We were there with a few people had experience on AIDS in Africa.

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And one of our problems was - how can you diagnose AIDS in Africa in the absence

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of very sophisticated laboratory support.

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Even though by 1985 there was a HIV test most of Africa didn't have access to it.

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One of the thing that we did in that meeting was to sit down and hash out

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the so called Bangui criteria for the diagnosis of AIDS in Africa.

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The idea was - what would be a simple way for a clinician to look at a patient and

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say that this patient likely has AIDS.

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They see somebody who has a combination of certain signs and symptoms like

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major weight loss.

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And if you have a combination of that you can say that this is probably somebody with AIDS.

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They wanted a clinical case definition whete they could decide that someone had AIDS

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just by looking at weight loss and persistent fever and so on.

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They gave something to clinicians in Africa to diagnose AIDS.

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And that helped in the overall effort to count cases. Because we needed to know

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what was the impact of the epidemic.

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They could discover AIDS all over Africa at that point.

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They could say that we are all at risk. They could say it's spreading around the world.

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They could say it affects women as much as men, because almost anyone in an African hospital

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could be diagnosed with AIDS.

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Without having to do the HIV test at all.

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Whole nations have been led to believe that in some instances they've got

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large percentages of their population infected and doomed because of this

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sexually transmitted virus. Its such a tragedy.

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What kind of sickness do you see around here?

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What is AIDS?

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So you're living in a mud house and there's coming a white man with doctors who you respect

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and they tell you that there is now among you an invisible disease that gets into you blood

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and can stay there unseen for years. And when it manifests itself its gonna manifest itself

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in forms of disease you have always known.

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Maybe if you look skinny, if you lost weight maybe they will simply say HIV.

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Or you are coughing a lot maybe they will say you have the disease.

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This can help to create extraordinary paranoia in people's minds. They would say -

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"What is going on with us?"

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My neighbor next door. He's got malaria. Does that mean that he's actually got

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that dreadful disease the white are talking about?

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Dr. Christian Fiala argues that many doctors have misused the Bangui definition.

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In the era before AIDS we had to admit we don't know the diagnosis and we could hypothesize.

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But nowadays what doctors do is, well if you don't know what it is it must be AIDS.

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We did have patients with the conditions we now regard as AIDS defining.

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Even before the advent of of AIDS.

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People could have TB and not have HIV and fulfill the Bangui criteria.

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They lose weight they have TB and they could look like they have AIDS when they don't.

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Is this Bangui definition still being used today?

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If fairly certain that in many parts of Africa where there is still no, little on no testing

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available that that definition is still in use.

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And I wouldn't be surprised that its used in the poor parts of Asia.

238
00:19:17,063 --> 00:19:21,019
This word AIDS. I don't know what it is anymore.

239
00:19:21,019 --> 00:19:24,089
I don't know what we're talking about anymore when we talk about AIDS.

240
00:19:24,089 --> 00:19:31,003
AIDS is one thing is one thing in village and a very different thing in Kampala - Uganda.

241
00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:35,049
I visited the word's health organization's website searching for answers

242
00:19:35,049 --> 00:19:41,029
and discovered there are currently more than twelve different definitions of AIDS worldwide.

243
00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:47,024
So I turned to Dr. James Chin former head of the WHO's global HIV statistics unit

244
00:19:47,024 --> 00:19:48,099
for an explanation.

245
00:19:49,050 --> 00:19:53,079
Some countries they felt they are little more sophisticated than the others.

246
00:19:53,079 --> 00:20:02,060
And you have, you know, along with the epidemic of HIV epidemics of HIV/AIDS experts.

247
00:20:02,060 --> 00:20:09,075
And some of them are not necessarily adhere to any international definition.

248
00:20:09,075 --> 00:20:12,059
They would make up their own definition.

249
00:20:12,073 --> 00:20:17,000
High school biology class taught me that diseases and syndromes can not differ

250
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,095
from country to country like languages.

251
00:20:19,095 --> 00:20:24,024
It was becoming clear that HIV and AIDS were distinct separate entities

252
00:20:24,024 --> 00:20:29,081
and that AIDS was diverting my attention from the real culprit - HIV.

253
00:20:29,081 --> 00:20:35,041
Where to next? The place millions have had their lives changed forever.

254
00:20:36,047 --> 00:20:39,031
She says: -We have your test result you need to come in and get it.

255
00:20:39,031 --> 00:20:40,076
And I was like: -Tell me now Sherill.

256
00:20:40,076 --> 00:20:43,012
She was like: -Kim we really need you to come in.

257
00:20:43,012 --> 00:20:46,084
And I said: -Then I know it's positive Sherill you were just telling me over the phone.

258
00:20:46,084 --> 00:20:51,000
And she said: - Kim don't panic. You can still have a normal life.

259
00:20:51,009 --> 00:20:53,073
I can still remember his face. I can remember his eyes.

260
00:20:53,073 --> 00:20:58,025
And all he said was: - I'm so sorry.

261
00:20:58,025 --> 00:21:04,025
I think you should put your affairs in order. You might have five years.

262
00:21:05,099 --> 00:21:10,021
I said: - Sherill. I have to go out now. I have to go tell my dad.

263
00:21:10,021 --> 00:21:16,093
He started crying. This is the way it happens in the movies.

264
00:21:21,022 --> 00:21:23,052
It's 7:00 am here in Johannesburg South Africa.

265
00:21:23,052 --> 00:21:30,040
And I'm a little nervous because I'm about to go in for my first HIV test.

266
00:21:32,073 --> 00:21:34,043
Have you ever gone in for an HIV test?

267
00:21:34,043 --> 00:21:35,062
No.

268
00:21:39,007 --> 00:21:41,042
Yes I have actually. Few years ago.

269
00:21:41,042 --> 00:21:45,006
Were you nervous?
- I was. Very frightened.

270
00:21:48,013 --> 00:21:52,056
The nearest testing center wasn't in a hospital. Or in a doctor's office

271
00:21:52,056 --> 00:21:55,060
but on the main concourse of a bus and train station.

272
00:21:55,060 --> 00:21:58,011
Beneath a few portable tents.

273
00:21:58,028 --> 00:22:04,003
HIV testing facilities are everywhere. From a street corner kiosk to the shopping malls.

274
00:22:04,003 --> 00:22:09,000
All being tested with a rapid test which looks for antibodies to HIV.

275
00:22:16,061 --> 00:22:18,035
Is this you questioner?

276
00:22:20,014 --> 00:22:22,034
These tests claim to be HIV tests.

277
00:22:22,034 --> 00:22:26,019
When you read from a section that says "limitations of the test".

278
00:22:26,019 --> 00:22:32,060
The specificity of the Reveal Rapid HIV antibody test for blood specimens in low-risk

279
00:22:32,060 --> 00:22:35,019
populations has not been evaluated.

280
00:22:35,019 --> 00:22:41,016
They don't know in their therms even, how well this test is gonna work in people

281
00:22:41,016 --> 00:22:44,064
they don't want it to work in. Low-risk.

282
00:22:44,064 --> 00:22:46,067
We don't think you are at risk.

283
00:22:48,010 --> 00:22:49,023
My sex life?

284
00:23:10,024 --> 00:23:15,005
In 1990 we flew to Romania to adopt a baby.

285
00:23:15,030 --> 00:23:19,066
We found Lindsy and she was only 2 weeks old.

286
00:23:20,002 --> 00:23:25,033
I cant still remember that feeling of holding her for the first time thinking: - My dream

287
00:23:25,033 --> 00:23:29,018
is going to come true. I'll have one of those children.

288
00:23:31,035 --> 00:23:35,094
Before we left Romania we had to make sure that she didn't have HIV.

289
00:23:35,094 --> 00:23:40,095
We had to find a doctor and he did the test and it came back negative.

290
00:23:41,034 --> 00:23:46,083
We flew home just after Christmas 1990 and...

291
00:24:12,054 --> 00:24:14,077
Can I just ask you cause I'm a little nervous.

292
00:24:15,017 --> 00:24:19,082
It seams like if this is positive and this is negative my life hangs in the balance on

293
00:24:19,082 --> 00:24:22,010
whatever this one is.

294
00:24:22,010 --> 00:24:25,077
So how do we know that this one is accurate when both of these two were inaccurate?

295
00:24:30,008 --> 00:24:32,072
So this one is more accurate than these two?

296
00:24:35,028 --> 00:24:38,092
So why don't we just use the more accurate one to begin with?

297
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,054
I don't know.

298
00:24:46,088 --> 00:24:51,029
Rapid test in Germany is not allowed for standard diagnostics.

299
00:24:51,043 --> 00:24:56,040
May I ask why? How come you don't use rapid tests for a standard diagnostics?

300
00:24:56,046 --> 00:25:02,048
Several professional organizations who decided as expert committee on guidelines

301
00:25:02,048 --> 00:25:04,065
how to do things.

302
00:25:04,065 --> 00:25:11,012
None of these responsible societies recommended for scientific reasons.

303
00:25:28,095 --> 00:25:31,091
How do they decide whether they are positive and negative?

304
00:25:36,049 --> 00:25:40,099
It accrued to me that perhaps the HIV epidemic is reported to be so wide spread

305
00:25:40,099 --> 00:25:46,094
in South Africa and other poor nations simply because they use these inaccurate tests.

306
00:25:47,056 --> 00:25:53,052
It's the same as if you knew what sausages are made of most people would hesitate

307
00:25:53,052 --> 00:25:58,094
sort of eat them because they wouldn't like what's in them.

308
00:25:58,094 --> 00:26:04,070
And if you know how HIV/AIDS numbers are cooked or made-up you would use them

309
00:26:04,070 --> 00:26:07,074
with extreme caution.

310
00:26:08,024 --> 00:26:13,088
I decided to investigate HIV testing protocols used throughout the developed world.

311
00:26:14,019 --> 00:26:19,001
When we're testing people for HIV the firs thing that we do is a screening test.

312
00:26:19,001 --> 00:26:21,085
And it's usually a test called ELISA.

313
00:26:22,010 --> 00:26:26,080
But there are also now available rapid assets to be used as screening methods.

314
00:26:26,090 --> 00:26:31,062
Yes they are faster. We all know faster and cheaper is more efficient.

315
00:26:32,081 --> 00:26:38,017
Each time ELISA is positive did does not mean that the patient is HIV positive. That's the problem.

316
00:26:38,050 --> 00:26:43,033
If we're using antibodies as a screening test to tell who is infected or not

317
00:26:43,033 --> 00:26:48,006
very occasionally you can get false positives.

318
00:26:48,033 --> 00:26:55,013
So screening test by themselves should not be used as definitive measure of infection.

319
00:26:55,013 --> 00:27:00,072
That's why use a screening test to pick up all the cases but we use a confirmatory test

320
00:27:00,072 --> 00:27:04,048
to eliminate any false positives.

321
00:27:10,078 --> 00:27:14,073
It should be emphasized that most of the developing world uses only screening test

322
00:27:14,073 --> 00:27:17,047
to confirm an HIV diagnosis.

323
00:27:17,047 --> 00:27:19,089
There are no confirmatory tests.

324
00:27:30,032 --> 00:27:34,089
Nine days after returning home Steven Chells's pediatrician ran a battery of tests

325
00:27:34,089 --> 00:27:37,077
on Lindsy including an HIV test.

326
00:27:37,077 --> 00:27:41,065
Even though Lindsy had tested negative for the virus in Romania.

327
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:49,003
Dr. McCew called us and said we are running to some problems with the testing that we did

328
00:27:49,003 --> 00:27:52,016
and you need to come right in and see me.

329
00:27:52,023 --> 00:27:56,030
I said: - Well what is it? She said: - I'm not gonna tell you over the phone.

330
00:27:56,030 --> 00:27:59,098
I said: - I need to know exactly what this is.

331
00:27:59,098 --> 00:28:03,081
He said: - We have a bad news that she tests positive.

332
00:28:04,002 --> 00:28:08,053
He said: - She'll have a 30% chance of living to the age 2.

333
00:28:10,021 --> 00:28:16,096
I was jut at shock. After all this joy and happiness. We finally found our daughter

334
00:28:16,096 --> 00:28:20,075
I'm dancing around around Romania and now we come home and it's like

335
00:28:20,075 --> 00:28:23,047
somebody could just stab me.

336
00:28:23,047 --> 00:28:28,026
And then I had to call my mom. And that was the worse phone call I have ever had to make

337
00:28:28,026 --> 00:28:34,019
because I remember saying that: - Poor girl she's just not gonna make it.

338
00:28:34,093 --> 00:28:39,042
So that we don't have to go to somebody and
say: - Well you might be infected

339
00:28:39,042 --> 00:28:42,001
but it might be a false positive.

340
00:28:42,001 --> 00:28:46,032
We do a second test. That's a test that's usually called The Western Blot.

341
00:28:46,057 --> 00:28:54,011
In 1992 when I was told by my doctor that I was HIV positive that was only a verbal admission to me.

342
00:28:54,011 --> 00:28:58,035
She didn't give me the written paper that came form the lab that tested my blood.

343
00:28:58,035 --> 00:29:04,076
I found out that it says: "This indicates possible infection by virus".

344
00:29:05,019 --> 00:29:10,039
There can be mistakes form the antibody test and there are conditions that can cause

345
00:29:10,039 --> 00:29:13,014
the test to be inaccurate.

346
00:29:13,026 --> 00:29:16,042
Now that I've got the package insert for that test kit it says

347
00:29:16,042 --> 00:29:22,013
"Positive results using any specimen type should be followed with additional testing"

348
00:29:22,013 --> 00:29:25,011
But this is the test they use to confirm with.

349
00:29:25,033 --> 00:29:29,030
This has margin of error done properly that's extremely low.

350
00:29:29,030 --> 00:29:32,035
In other words it's one of medicine's better tests.

351
00:29:32,045 --> 00:29:37,052
I don't think The Western Blot is a useful diagnostic test. I don't think it's worth doing.

352
00:29:37,061 --> 00:29:42,054
Did they give reason? Anybody can say anything. "I think it's stupid to drive a car".

353
00:29:42,054 --> 00:29:44,089
But they gotta give a reason.

354
00:29:44,093 --> 00:29:50,032
Due to useful prognostic test once you know that someone is infected then you could

355
00:29:50,032 --> 00:29:55,014
follow their antibody responses well with Western Blot.

356
00:29:55,021 --> 00:29:58,040
It says absolutely wrong. It has a complete usefulness.

357
00:29:58,052 --> 00:30:02,043
You don't need a Western Blot. And it has become a dogma in HIV research.

358
00:30:02,043 --> 00:30:08,043
You need one ELISA followed by Western. You don't. You need two different kinds of ELISA's

359
00:30:08,043 --> 00:30:10,077
made in two different formats.

360
00:30:10,089 --> 00:30:14,077
Would you ever want to confirm somebody is positive using just ELISA's?

361
00:30:14,097 --> 00:30:16,061
No. Never.

362
00:30:16,061 --> 00:30:20,038
It's not against the rules. It's against recommendations.

363
00:30:20,052 --> 00:30:25,081
It's turbulent see of argument about how can we use this test. When can we use this test?

364
00:30:25,081 --> 00:30:28,034
Why is this test have no standard?

365
00:30:30,015 --> 00:30:35,046
We have a group now of about 40 patients that have no detectable virus in their body

366
00:30:35,046 --> 00:30:37,040
but the are not being treated.

367
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,063
So the first question is - are they realy infected?

368
00:30:39,074 --> 00:30:42,003
So The Western Blot can have falls positives?

369
00:30:42,021 --> 00:30:43,094
No The Western Blow was negative too.

370
00:30:43,094 --> 00:30:49,017
But they were told they were positive by lab. Yes they miss red The Western Blot.

371
00:30:49,049 --> 00:30:54,021
Heavy weight champion Tommy Morison tested positive in 1996.

372
00:30:54,021 --> 00:31:01,087
11 years later in 2007 he tested negative multiple times allowing him to return to the ring.

373
00:31:03,021 --> 00:31:08,075
There's constant discussion in the community of people who do diagnostic testing

374
00:31:08,075 --> 00:31:14,020
and the blood bankers about how to read these tests.

375
00:31:15,017 --> 00:31:19,044
When you look ate these Western Blots how do you determine what is a positive?

376
00:31:19,064 --> 00:31:24,018
You need certain number of bands being present.

377
00:31:24,018 --> 00:31:27,015
It depends a little bit on the producer of the test.

378
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,093
It depends on the manufacturer? 
-Yes.

379
00:31:29,093 --> 00:31:32,091
Is there different criteria for what might be a positive? 
-Yes.

380
00:31:32,091 --> 00:31:39,097
There are different criteria form the manufacturer and also there are guidelines

381
00:31:39,097 --> 00:31:42,073
from the WHO and UNAIDS.

382
00:31:43,029 --> 00:31:48,046
HIV infection is diagnosed with rather now routine laboratory tests

383
00:31:48,046 --> 00:31:57,042
for which there are criteria for diagnosis established by the manufacturer...

384
00:31:58,060 --> 00:32:00,073
...FDA

385
00:32:02,064 --> 00:32:05,099
Claudia showed me the package insert that comes with the Western Blot.

386
00:32:05,099 --> 00:32:11,092
It contains eight different sets of criteria for diagnosing HIV infection.

387
00:32:12,039 --> 00:32:16,010
Because of the different criteria that apply in different countries

388
00:32:16,010 --> 00:32:23,096
you can test HIV positive in one country and be given AIDS diagnosis as a result of that,

389
00:32:23,096 --> 00:32:29,082
wheres in another country you wont test HIV positive and you wont be given an AIDS diagnosis.

390
00:32:30,018 --> 00:32:34,063
It's ludicrous that you can be positive in one country and not positive in another.

391
00:32:35,007 --> 00:32:38,071
Theoretically I could be diagnosed with AIDS in the United States

392
00:32:38,071 --> 00:32:43,052
but if I take three steps to my right I wouldn't be diagnosed with AIDS.

393
00:32:43,052 --> 00:32:47,060
Or I will lose my AIDS diagnosis when I cross the border.

394
00:32:49,043 --> 00:32:54,095
In 1992 I was encouraged by a doctor to take what's called a HIV test

395
00:32:54,095 --> 00:32:58,031
as a mater of social responsibility.

396
00:32:58,031 --> 00:33:06,057
And I was shocked, and devastated, and horrified when the results came back positive.

397
00:33:07,010 --> 00:33:12,039
It was one of those moments that everyone fears their whole life.

398
00:33:12,093 --> 00:33:17,070
A week later I took the same test to an AIDS specialist.

399
00:33:17,070 --> 00:33:23,025
He looks and says: - This isn't a positive test. I don't know what this test means.

400
00:33:24,032 --> 00:33:27,020
Since a falls positive looks like a true positive, how can you ever distinguish

401
00:33:27,020 --> 00:33:30,038
whether it's truly a positive or a negative?

402
00:33:30,060 --> 00:33:36,013
Well that's a great question. It's gonna be very hard to determine a false positive.

403
00:33:36,023 --> 00:33:43,053
So I take the test again and this time my results come marked from the lab - indeterminate.

404
00:33:43,091 --> 00:33:48,072
I'm faced with the decision - you want to wait 6 weeks to test again or do it right away?

405
00:33:48,072 --> 00:33:50,094
I opted for right away.

406
00:33:50,094 --> 00:33:54,032
My results from that time come back positive.

407
00:33:54,053 --> 00:33:57,025
Took it again. Came negative.

408
00:33:57,094 --> 00:34:00,020
i took it again. Positive.

409
00:34:02,047 --> 00:34:08,089
What happens if you're positive on one criteria but negative on another manufacturer's criteria?

410
00:34:08,089 --> 00:34:12,063
How do you decide who's infected and who's not?

411
00:34:14,049 --> 00:34:19,066
You will use the most sensitive criteria.

412
00:34:21,005 --> 00:34:26,031
In late December of 2007 I red about a new legislation passed in New Jersey calling for

413
00:34:26,031 --> 00:34:30,001
a mandatory testing of pregnant women or newborn infants,

414
00:34:30,001 --> 00:34:32,082
should the mother's status be unknown.

415
00:34:33,022 --> 00:34:37,030
HIV mandatory testing to me is a no brainier.

416
00:34:37,067 --> 00:34:42,066
I'm very much opposed to the concept of mandatory testing of any population

417
00:34:42,066 --> 00:34:49,010
because the tests are scientifically shown to be unreliable and inaccurate.

418
00:34:49,028 --> 00:34:58,001
You have no reason to fear this bill. And my hope is eventually this would become a federal law

419
00:34:58,001 --> 00:35:03,008
so that every woman in this country could be tested.

420
00:35:03,061 --> 00:35:08,021
But HIV testing isn't a absolutely precise science.

421
00:35:08,035 --> 00:35:11,064
When I confronted my doctor about that she said: 
- We're way pass Western Blot now.

422
00:35:11,064 --> 00:35:14,023
We have the viral load test.

423
00:35:14,023 --> 00:35:17,056
But when you get the package insert for the viral load test it says:

424
00:35:17,065 --> 00:35:22,023
"If you test positive you are considered confirmed infected with HIV"

425
00:35:22,023 --> 00:35:28,047
But at the bottom of the page in fine print it states a person should have additional testing.

426
00:35:28,092 --> 00:35:35,084
It does not allow you to tell a single person on this planet that they are HIV positive.

427
00:35:35,084 --> 00:35:38,097
And it's a scandal that these tests continue to be used.

428
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,019
So again I'm asking. Where is the test?

429
00:35:42,019 --> 00:35:47,097
Where is the test that can confirm a diagnosis of HIV infection? And I can't find one.

430
00:35:48,064 --> 00:35:52,053
I have the package insert from the manufacturer which they supply me with.

431
00:35:52,053 --> 00:35:57,000
And under "Limitation of the test" it states that risk factors should be used

432
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,017
in conjunction with the test.

433
00:35:59,017 --> 00:36:03,029
Has the person had sex? Have they used drugs or had a blood transfusion?

434
00:36:03,029 --> 00:36:07,051
And then - in conjunction with the test. Not the test alone but with the test.

435
00:36:07,051 --> 00:36:10,086
Then you decide whether the person is positive or negative.

436
00:36:12,024 --> 00:36:14,098
Did the answers to these questions help aid in the diagnosis?

437
00:36:17,001 --> 00:36:18,001
Realy?

438
00:36:21,036 --> 00:36:25,027
Now if I tell you that the test you took was lousy it didn't mean a thing.

439
00:36:25,027 --> 00:36:27,090
Is that make any difference for everybody to hear?

440
00:36:28,001 --> 00:36:30,051
It makes a difference for me.
-Yeah I know.

441
00:36:30,063 --> 00:36:37,022
How can we say that HIV is the cause of AIDS when we don't know, based on current test

442
00:36:37,022 --> 00:36:43,002
whether or not anybody diagnosed positive, actually has HIV?

443
00:36:46,025 --> 00:36:49,088
President Thabo Mbeki will officially open the AIDS conference tonight.

444
00:36:49,088 --> 00:36:55,035
Delegates here are hoping he would finally separate himself form the AIDS denials.

445
00:36:55,082 --> 00:37:01,015
We remain convinced of the need for as better to understand what reconstitutes

446
00:37:01,015 --> 00:37:08,001
a comprehensive response in a context such as ours which is characterized by high levels

447
00:37:08,001 --> 00:37:10,089
of poverty and disease.

448
00:37:11,042 --> 00:37:16,083
As I listened and held the whole story told about our own country it seamed to me that

449
00:37:16,083 --> 00:37:21,019
could not blame everything on a single virus.

450
00:37:21,046 --> 00:37:25,068
I thought this man must be an idiot. Everyone in Africa is dying of AIDS. I know this because

451
00:37:25,068 --> 00:37:28,061
I read the New York Times. It's beyond doubt.

452
00:37:28,077 --> 00:37:31,094
Rian Milan was hired by Rolling Stone to investigate and debunk

453
00:37:31,094 --> 00:37:35,018
president Mbeki's misguided ideas.

454
00:37:35,018 --> 00:37:37,057
Where to begin? The numbers.

455
00:37:37,089 --> 00:37:42,045
My very first action. I hoped in Johannesburg's yellow pages I thought I could illustrate this.

456
00:37:42,045 --> 00:37:47,042
But the scene beginning in a coffin factory in Johannesburg where workers are working

457
00:37:47,042 --> 00:37:52,002
over time. Mountains of people are dying of this condition.

458
00:37:52,002 --> 00:37:55,050
And I discovered that limits to void UNAIDS isn't the plague.

459
00:37:55,050 --> 00:37:59,087
It is that half of the coffin factories in Johannesburg of going bankrupt.

460
00:38:00,068 --> 00:38:05,091
In South Africa alone it's about a thousand people dying everyday from AIDS.

461
00:38:06,010 --> 00:38:14,081
If you are advocacy agency and you perceive low numbers to be bad your buyers maybe

462
00:38:14,081 --> 00:38:20,075
to accept higher numbers even if they are not scientifically sound.

463
00:38:21,009 --> 00:38:26,097
I know what Jim Chin quite well and I was a chairman of the steering committee

464
00:38:26,097 --> 00:38:32,057
on epidemiology of the global program on AIDS in WHO when Jim Chin was in charge

465
00:38:32,057 --> 00:38:37,026
of the epidemiology estimates. And we could never get information how the WHO

466
00:38:37,026 --> 00:38:43,006
estimates were made. So we were very critical in these days because we found

467
00:38:43,006 --> 00:38:46,089
that it was not based on enough evidence.

468
00:38:47,006 --> 00:38:52,041
It's possible that he didn't read the materials we sent him or even understand them

469
00:38:52,041 --> 00:39:00,030
but we did sent information to anybody who wanted to know about the estimates.

470
00:39:00,030 --> 00:39:03,006
Because they were pretty transparent.

471
00:39:03,047 --> 00:39:08,030
In an attempt to get to the bottom of this statistics debate I've come to Geneva Switzerland

472
00:39:08,030 --> 00:39:12,005
to look at the world health organization's official numbers.

473
00:39:12,005 --> 00:39:18,011
And what we found? There are no numbers. Only assumptions and estimates.

474
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:23,078
How are the money debited out to states for AIDS prevention or AIDS treatment?

475
00:39:23,078 --> 00:39:28,029
How is government money sent out to different states and communities?

476
00:39:28,036 --> 00:39:31,052
The more AIDS you have, the more money you get.
-Exactly

477
00:39:31,094 --> 00:39:35,040
The AIDS broadness has a vast interest in maximizing and squeezing the data to get

478
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:40,039
the worst possible scenario because the worst the situation is, the more compelling

479
00:39:40,039 --> 00:39:42,085
the fund raising claims are.

480
00:39:43,013 --> 00:39:49,036
When UNAIDS was created about 250 million dollars were spent on AIDS in poor countries.

481
00:39:49,036 --> 00:39:52,050
10 years later it's 10 billion dollars!

482
00:39:52,050 --> 00:39:55,072
That's an unprecedented increase. Still not enough.

483
00:39:55,095 --> 00:40:00,095
When that was created the first thing Peter Piot said...

484
00:40:00,095 --> 00:40:06,029
Said it was that UNAIDS is an advocacy agency pure and simple.

485
00:40:06,044 --> 00:40:09,051
And this was my first objective when I came into this job.

486
00:40:09,051 --> 00:40:12,060
That was - put it on the political agenda.

487
00:40:12,076 --> 00:40:20,035
He divested himself of all of the program aspects and scientific aspects of AIDS.

488
00:40:20,061 --> 00:40:24,016
This is not an scientific issue. This is a matter of politics.

489
00:40:24,057 --> 00:40:29,000
Except one unit he kept so that the numbers unit.

490
00:40:29,017 --> 00:40:37,022
We are really doing a major disservice to say - it is not as bad as it looks like.

491
00:40:37,022 --> 00:40:40,070
Because actually it is much worse.

492
00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:45,053
One month after my interview Dr. Piak the Indian government slashed their estimates

493
00:40:45,053 --> 00:40:47,051
by nearly 60%.

494
00:40:47,067 --> 00:40:52,096
Shortly thereafter UNAIDS acknowledged they were over estimating global HIV statistics

495
00:40:52,096 --> 00:40:55,061
for more than a decade.

496
00:40:55,080 --> 00:41:02,061
They painted themselves into a corner and now their house of numbers is falling apart.

497
00:41:04,095 --> 00:41:09,086
America is leading the fight against disease and I call on you to double our initial commitment

498
00:41:09,086 --> 00:41:18,028
to fighting HIV/AIDS by approving an additional 30 billion dollars over the next five years.

499
00:41:22,005 --> 00:41:25,096
Noble corruption, misuse of statistics in order to convince people that there is

500
00:41:25,096 --> 00:41:29,035
on hell of a problem out there guys and we're gotta go do something bout it.

501
00:41:41,094 --> 00:41:50,017
In April of 2008 congress approved a 50 billion dollar expenditure for AIDS treatment and prevention.

502
00:41:50,039 --> 00:41:56,080
Vast majority of the world's population is not at any measurable risk of HIV infection.

503
00:41:56,097 --> 00:41:58,065
No measurable risk?

504
00:41:58,065 --> 00:42:02,043
Growing up in the age of AIDS I was taught there are three certainties in life.

505
00:42:02,043 --> 00:42:08,061
Death, taxes and contracting HIV from unprotected sex.

506
00:42:09,043 --> 00:42:12,036
If you don't use a condom there's a lot of chances that you can actually get

507
00:42:12,036 --> 00:42:16,049
the killer disease that is AIDS.

508
00:42:18,047 --> 00:42:24,019
I did a study of heterosexual transmission of HIV in California and we recruited individuals

509
00:42:24,019 --> 00:42:28,068
who were infected with HIV. Then we recruited their sexual partners and we looked

510
00:42:28,068 --> 00:42:32,076
at whether transmission in fact had occurred.

511
00:42:33,029 --> 00:42:39,081
Padian runs a study. It's a ten years study with the world's most virulent terrifying sexually...

512
00:42:39,091 --> 00:42:45,036
I mean this thing jumps... Excuse me, of a penis to in the vaginas miles away.

513
00:42:45,070 --> 00:42:50,026
How many of the do you think after ten years with the world's most terrifying virulent

514
00:42:50,026 --> 00:42:53,019
sexually transmuted disease came up positive?

515
00:42:53,053 --> 00:42:54,096
Nobody!

516
00:42:54,096 --> 00:42:58,040
Nobody who was negative came up positive.

517
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,045
Zero!

518
00:43:01,009 --> 00:43:06,012
I think HIV is more difficult to transmit than other sexually... Then a lot, probably most

519
00:43:06,012 --> 00:43:09,001
other sexually transmitted diseases.

520
00:43:09,001 --> 00:43:11,080
I mean that's pretty widely known.

521
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,032
If I would have unprotected sex with somebody who is HIV positive

522
00:43:15,032 --> 00:43:18,027
how many acts would I have to engage with him before I got the virus?

523
00:43:18,055 --> 00:43:19,051
Just one.

524
00:43:19,067 --> 00:43:21,032
I think one would be enough.

525
00:43:21,047 --> 00:43:22,041
First act.

526
00:43:22,078 --> 00:43:24,051
One is enough.

527
00:43:24,060 --> 00:43:28,061
Remarkably HIV is a difficult infection to transmit.

528
00:43:28,093 --> 00:43:34,078
This contradicts everything I was ever taught about the sexual transmission of HIV.

529
00:43:34,098 --> 00:43:40,016
AIDS is the best example of what's really scary and alarming and dangerous about

530
00:43:40,016 --> 00:43:45,042
our culture right now. Which is that it's a culture of PR.

531
00:43:45,042 --> 00:43:48,083
It's a public relations phenomenon.

532
00:43:48,083 --> 00:43:55,000
The truth doesn't matter. What matters is the image.

533
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:04,050
If we were talking about reality. The reality is the AIDS is over.

534
00:44:12,074 --> 00:44:18,074
Somebody decided in the early 80's that there is this infection called HIV.

535
00:44:18,074 --> 00:44:24,008
And upon deciding that I don't think it was debated enough.

536
00:44:26,024 --> 00:44:31,025
In 1983 Dr. Luc Montagnier and his team of researchers identified what they thought

537
00:44:31,025 --> 00:44:34,037
might be the cause of AIDS.

538
00:44:49,033 --> 00:44:56,027
Not an actual work with rapidly reinforced additional virology studies in Bob Galo's lab

539
00:44:56,027 --> 00:44:58,032
in Washington.

540
00:44:58,088 --> 00:45:03,061
Galo got pushed by the Reagan's administration that wanted to do something on AIDS finally.

541
00:45:03,061 --> 00:45:07,094
They would literally told us to just to close lab down.

542
00:45:07,094 --> 00:45:13,035
We don't care about this bunch of gays. Who gives a shit. And that was really the whole story.

543
00:45:13,035 --> 00:45:19,062
So the whole thing that they rested their political response was - well we discovered the virus.

544
00:45:20,073 --> 00:45:22,095
Good afternoon ladies and gentleman.

545
00:45:22,095 --> 00:45:25,073
The probable cause of AIDS has been found.

546
00:45:25,073 --> 00:45:31,017
Credit must go to our eminent doctor Robert Gallo who directed the research

547
00:45:31,017 --> 00:45:34,062
that produced this discovery.

548
00:45:34,064 --> 00:45:36,046
What was new that day.

549
00:45:36,046 --> 00:45:40,030
It's for the first time we were saying - that's cause. I'm sure.

550
00:45:40,051 --> 00:45:46,014
Was a silly press conference. There was not an evidence that the HIV was the cause of AIDS

551
00:45:46,014 --> 00:45:48,055
or wasn't called HIV.

552
00:45:48,055 --> 00:45:53,051
There was certainly evidence that he didn't discover it. It was discovered in France.

553
00:45:55,004 --> 00:46:01,067
The conference was held before any of Robert Gallo's papers were published.

554
00:46:01,067 --> 00:46:06,078
Therefore before any other scientists had a chance to review them and look at the evidence

555
00:46:06,078 --> 00:46:09,091
and see if got it right or wrong.

556
00:46:10,042 --> 00:46:16,088
Gallo's philosophy was to have people to whom he would give the virus in his own control

557
00:46:16,088 --> 00:46:20,064
so that any information that came out of that would come through him.

558
00:46:20,064 --> 00:46:25,003
So that he got all the information and he would often put his name on the publication.

559
00:46:25,003 --> 00:46:32,032
But should you have any broader view other his personal glory and your personal glory...

560
00:46:32,032 --> 00:46:35,022
This was not a scientific pursuit in any way.

561
00:46:35,033 --> 00:46:39,092
The US department of health and human services decided from now on we are only

562
00:46:39,092 --> 00:46:46,047
going to fund aid research that assumes that Robert Gallo's virus is the cause.

563
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:51,030
I didn't think HIV in 1984 was the cause of AIDS.

564
00:46:51,030 --> 00:46:56,012
I did the study comparing gay men with Kaposis's and gay men with Pneumocystis.

565
00:46:56,012 --> 00:46:58,061
I assumed there must be something else.

566
00:46:58,061 --> 00:47:02,099
If you go read my paper form 1985 that Curran and Jaffe would not sign on to.

567
00:47:02,099 --> 00:47:08,027
I actually laid out the co-factor hypothesis in that paper.

568
00:47:16,081 --> 00:47:22,085
Well co-factors just says that the cause of the disease is by more than one factor.

569
00:47:23,043 --> 00:47:30,014
Just simply being a picked with HIV is not gonna do it. You need certain co-factors.

570
00:47:30,067 --> 00:47:33,052
Co-factors are not necessary...

571
00:47:34,004 --> 00:47:37,064
Dr. Fauci would said: - HIV causes AIDS without the need of anything else.

572
00:47:37,064 --> 00:47:39,004
That's kind of ridiculous.

573
00:47:39,048 --> 00:47:44,011
The data that indicate that any different type of infection like Mycoplasma

574
00:47:44,011 --> 00:47:50,044
or something like that is a necessary co-factor. 
I believe those theories have been debunked.

575
00:47:50,083 --> 00:47:57,022
What does he mean that there are no co-factors?

576
00:47:57,022 --> 00:48:01,006
Where is he coming from? There's co-factors for everything.

577
00:48:01,016 --> 00:48:07,071
Co-factor plays something specific. And it really gets us of into tracks.

578
00:48:08,005 --> 00:48:14,047
Gallo isn't gonna change his mind. He's probably 70 years plus now.

579
00:48:14,047 --> 00:48:20,009
He's gonna remember things... Well we all remember things that are good for us.

580
00:48:20,009 --> 00:48:23,099
And we forget the bad things.

581
00:48:24,087 --> 00:48:29,059
The co-factors are important to really understand how people get ill.

582
00:48:29,059 --> 00:48:31,056
Why they get ill?

583
00:48:31,076 --> 00:48:38,016
What is asked of an AIDS journalist is to deny an existing reality which is

584
00:48:38,016 --> 00:48:44,080
a strong growing body of descent on a scientific question.

585
00:48:46,053 --> 00:48:54,094
In August of '92 my daddy has just red his latest national review and there was an article there

586
00:48:54,094 --> 00:48:59,021
about Peter Duesberg a cell biologist.

587
00:48:59,021 --> 00:49:03,014
He said he didn't think HIV caused AIDS.

588
00:49:03,074 --> 00:49:10,061
To deny this well identified, well characterized virus is linked with AIDS is

589
00:49:10,061 --> 00:49:13,044
to my mind just potty.

590
00:49:13,095 --> 00:49:19,065
He said: -We can't replicate this in my office. I can't get this virus to do anything.

591
00:49:19,065 --> 00:49:22,062
We thought. Oh my gosh my dad is really daydreaming.

592
00:49:22,062 --> 00:49:26,002
He's trying to wish this all away, because he knows how upset we are.

593
00:49:26,002 --> 00:49:30,086
Just wish it all away and everybody will be gone happy.

594
00:49:32,067 --> 00:49:37,062
If Fauci would say there's a billion dollars for alternative theories of AIDS

595
00:49:37,062 --> 00:49:40,092
you wouldn't believe what's gonna happen.

596
00:49:40,092 --> 00:49:46,051
A lot of HIV researches over night would start co-factors.

597
00:49:46,051 --> 00:49:49,093
The first year they would call them co-factors of HIV.

598
00:49:49,093 --> 00:49:56,008
And the next year the co- would be topped and HIV would be topped an year later.

599
00:49:57,002 --> 00:50:03,077
Peter's highly intelligent he did excellent work. I mean no wonder he got full professorship in Berkley

600
00:50:03,077 --> 00:50:08,091
and was nominated for the American academy of sciences but I told you quite frankly

601
00:50:08,091 --> 00:50:13,027
that he's killing people with his theories and I still stick to that.

602
00:50:13,085 --> 00:50:19,099
The attack him. They attack his ideas and they present some bogus way

603
00:50:19,099 --> 00:50:24,051
of refuting what his science has said which is not a really refutable.

604
00:50:25,008 --> 00:50:27,005
Peter Duesberg?

605
00:50:27,089 --> 00:50:31,022
They are all prostitutes. Most of them. My colleagues.

606
00:50:31,022 --> 00:50:36,048
To some degree myself. You have to be a prostitute to get money for your research.

607
00:50:36,048 --> 00:50:40,033
You a trained to be a little bit of a prostitute.

608
00:50:41,025 --> 00:50:43,077
But some go all the way.

609
00:50:45,001 --> 00:50:50,025
In light of all that scientific uncertainty I asked Dr. Fauci for evidence linking HIV

610
00:50:50,025 --> 00:50:53,048
to immunodeficiency disease.

611
00:50:53,087 --> 00:51:00,088
When you put the combined findings of the initial characterization as a distinct retrovirus

612
00:51:00,088 --> 00:51:07,029
isolated by Montagnier and his group together with Gallo linking the virus to being the cause

613
00:51:07,029 --> 00:51:11,055
of AIDS and you put those thing together. And that's how we have confirmation

614
00:51:11,055 --> 00:51:16,019
of the causative agent of AIDS in the name of HIV.

615
00:51:16,054 --> 00:51:22,066
Still unclear about the evidence for HIV's existence I decided the best way to verify it would be

616
00:51:22,066 --> 00:51:24,079
to actually see it.

617
00:51:24,079 --> 00:51:28,092
I asked Dr. Hans Gelderblom, a world renowned electron microscopist if he thought

618
00:51:28,092 --> 00:51:33,060
there was any reason to question Dr. Montagnier's published images.

619
00:51:34,021 --> 00:51:38,094
I've see these publications. Stamp sized images.

620
00:51:38,094 --> 00:51:41,039
It's a nuisance.

621
00:51:41,039 --> 00:51:44,067
It's a nuisance. You do not really see much.

622
00:51:44,090 --> 00:51:49,033
When we saw that photo we said - suggestive but not convincing.

623
00:51:50,023 --> 00:51:54,049
Dr. Gallo one year later published photographs he claimed to be of HIV.

624
00:51:54,049 --> 00:51:56,048
Were his any better?

625
00:51:56,067 --> 00:52:03,071
There pictures were not so impressive. They were not much better than Montagnier's images.

626
00:52:03,088 --> 00:52:08,041
it's one thing to look like and another thing is to be a virus.

627
00:52:09,044 --> 00:52:13,033
In 2002 I stumbled across an article by Valendar Turner

628
00:52:13,033 --> 00:52:18,001
and Andrew McIntyre of the Perth group in Australia and he questioned whether

629
00:52:18,001 --> 00:52:20,094
there has even been found a virus.

630
00:52:21,046 --> 00:52:25,088
I became consumed with researching this. I could read from morning till night.

631
00:52:25,088 --> 00:52:30,012
Every day and every link to another link. And I wold email to those people and say

632
00:52:30,012 --> 00:52:35,073
where is the test? I want to know. Am I dying? Am I contagious?

633
00:52:35,073 --> 00:52:39,052
And they weren't even very kind. They were just like - read articles again.

634
00:52:39,052 --> 00:52:43,001
How many times we have to tell you? There is no test.

635
00:52:43,061 --> 00:52:51,005
It is crucial to understand that an AIDS diagnosis is for ever. It can not be reversed or alleviated.

636
00:52:51,048 --> 00:52:56,015
The stigma attached to people knowing that you have it and you're living with it worse

637
00:52:56,015 --> 00:52:58,063
that actually living with it.

638
00:52:58,077 --> 00:53:01,076
I can't think of anybody who's ever been evicted from their apartment because

639
00:53:01,076 --> 00:53:06,029
they had breast cancer or because they had cerebral palsy.

640
00:53:06,067 --> 00:53:11,049
i did a campaign to address stigma. The message is that if anyone's infected

641
00:53:11,049 --> 00:53:14,053
that we are all infected.

642
00:53:14,053 --> 00:53:18,048
Some have it medically some have it socially, some have it culturally.

643
00:53:18,048 --> 00:53:22,076
And in the end of the day if it exists anywhere it exist everywhere.

644
00:53:22,099 --> 00:53:26,090
We don't all have AIDS. And when you start bullshittng it it's a problem.

645
00:53:26,090 --> 00:53:29,078
You know. We don't ALL have AIDS.

646
00:53:29,078 --> 00:53:35,044
We all have to be sympathetic to AIDS and yes there's all kinds of people who get HIV infection

647
00:53:35,044 --> 00:53:43,070
but we don't need to make, on my view, non truths. Or just have a slogan or a symbol

648
00:53:43,070 --> 00:53:46,038
"We all have AIDS". No, we don't all have AIDS.

649
00:53:46,055 --> 00:53:49,053
Well my message is you do have it whether you wanna accept is or not.

650
00:53:49,053 --> 00:53:58,013
Are you medically susceptible? Maybe not. But are you socially vulnerable? Yes.

651
00:53:58,057 --> 00:54:07,066
In June of 2007 the BBC featured a new story which began - "HIV infection theory challenged"

652
00:54:09,083 --> 00:54:18,082
Living cells are complicated. And how they work inside the body is even more complicated.

653
00:54:18,082 --> 00:54:26,026
So there is still a lot of debate of how exactly HIV causes AIDS.

654
00:54:26,075 --> 00:54:31,087
In March of 2008 The Washington Post went onto state that multiple surprises have reminded

655
00:54:31,087 --> 00:54:38,006
researchers how much they still don't know about HIV's biology.

656
00:54:38,084 --> 00:54:45,097
HIV's got to get inside the circulation of the body. And it does that in a ways that are

657
00:54:45,097 --> 00:54:49,005
not completely understood.

658
00:54:49,047 --> 00:54:56,098
The prime target for HIV is a T-cell population called CD4 helper T-cells.

659
00:54:57,071 --> 00:55:04,089
The way that the virus gets into the target cell it fuses its membrane to the membrane of the cell.

660
00:55:05,014 --> 00:55:10,077
I don't understand the fusion process. I don't think anybody completely understands it.

661
00:55:10,092 --> 00:55:17,064
We have a relatively poor understanding of how viral proteins interact with the proteins in the cell.

662
00:55:19,077 --> 00:55:23,072
How come our antibodies aren't able to keep HIV in check?

663
00:55:24,001 --> 00:55:27,030
That's an excellent question that's one of the greatest stumbling blocks.

664
00:55:27,041 --> 00:55:31,005
They can't prove that HIV is the cause of AIDS.

665
00:55:31,005 --> 00:55:35,077
OK? The can not prove that HIV is the cause of the collapse of the immune system

666
00:55:35,077 --> 00:55:38,053
no matter how many scientific journals say there is.

667
00:55:38,053 --> 00:55:42,013
When you go to the basic research it doesn't prove it.

668
00:55:42,059 --> 00:55:52,025
We are almost convinced that there is also factors that are involved in the lost of CD4 cells

669
00:55:52,025 --> 00:55:56,029
and we don't know yet all the mechanisms.

670
00:55:56,056 --> 00:56:03,079
How HIV depletes the T-cells so an individual advances to AIDS is probably

671
00:56:03,079 --> 00:56:09,080
due to multi factoral elements.

672
00:56:11,003 --> 00:56:16,001
One is it will kill the cell eventually that it infects.

673
00:56:17,015 --> 00:56:22,056
HIV does not necessarily kill the cells that it infects.

674
00:56:23,056 --> 00:56:29,044
Some T-cells are directly killed by HIV and other T-cells keep the virus in check .

675
00:56:29,044 --> 00:56:35,088
It's a silent state within the cell. And i think in many cases these cells can return

676
00:56:35,088 --> 00:56:38,000
to a normal function.

677
00:56:38,012 --> 00:56:43,026
Can that cell return to a normal state? I don't think so.

678
00:56:44,088 --> 00:56:50,034
When I was told I was HIV positive I accepted that on a very deep level.

679
00:56:50,034 --> 00:56:54,095
But only by having a courage to open minds...

680
00:56:57,009 --> 00:57:05,070
...and open hearts to answer these questions. Are we ever going to know how to help people?

681
00:57:05,070 --> 00:57:11,024
How to do what we need to do to help people?

682
00:57:12,008 --> 00:57:17,046
In late 2007 Science Daily reported that three prominent research teams had published

683
00:57:17,046 --> 00:57:22,015
papers in the journal of immunology challenging the theory that sudden lost of T-cells

684
00:57:22,015 --> 00:57:24,065
triggers disease and AIDS.

685
00:57:24,098 --> 00:57:30,094
The details of HIV pathogenesis, how HIV kills people are still being worked out.

686
00:57:31,025 --> 00:57:37,019
If the sudden loss of T-cells in HIV positive individuals can't explain why people get deceased

687
00:57:37,019 --> 00:57:40,080
then there must be co-factors to cause people to get sick and dying.

688
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:44,091
Or factors that have absolutely nothing to do with HIV.

689
00:57:44,091 --> 00:57:50,008
While researching HIV hot spots I began to realize there is a direct co-relation

690
00:57:50,008 --> 00:57:55,015
in this places with another condition that leads to immunodeficiency and death.

691
00:57:56,025 --> 00:58:00,005
I think it is important to keep in mind, especially for us in the west

692
00:58:00,005 --> 00:58:06,050
that poverty is not a romantic issue. It is a deadly issue.

693
00:58:06,050 --> 00:58:12,016
Poverty leads to diseases and premature deaths. PERIOD.

694
00:58:14,048 --> 00:58:18,094
When you look at the symptoms that they talk about, you know, for people that are HIV positive

695
00:58:18,094 --> 00:58:22,067
you find that some of them, they are more related to malnutrition.

696
00:58:33,055 --> 00:58:37,024
People are hungry. They are undeveloped. There are no hospitals. There's no propper

697
00:58:37,024 --> 00:58:39,046
medical care.

698
00:58:39,046 --> 00:58:45,080
You take away poverty and you give the people the ability to fight infections.

699
00:58:46,011 --> 00:58:48,076
These are toilets?
-Yeah

700
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:30,025
Why have we done nothing for African people? Just like giving clean water so they don't die

701
00:59:30,025 --> 00:59:33,005
in infancy of diarrhea or diseases or stuff like this?

702
00:59:33,005 --> 00:59:36,013
All we care about is HIV and AIDS. Well...

703
00:59:36,013 --> 00:59:41,008
Question - well there's money in it. There has to be, you know, other dynamic workings

704
00:59:41,008 --> 00:59:47,032
to lead public interest to the African situation and ignore clean water.

705
00:59:47,032 --> 00:59:51,032
Sanitation, malaria. I mean - thing that kill people.

706
00:59:51,044 --> 00:59:52,094
This is a beginning of a war.

707
00:59:52,094 --> 00:59:58,064
It is a war to reclaim our health.

708
01:00:00,050 --> 01:00:06,034
In 2008 USA Today published a new story that stated "If we look at the data objectively

709
01:00:06,034 --> 01:00:08,094
we are spending too much on AIDS..."

710
01:00:08,094 --> 01:00:14,088
About 10 billion dollars a year are spent on AIDS when 2 billion people live with no sanitation.

711
01:00:14,088 --> 01:00:17,087
1 billion lack access to clean water

712
01:00:17,087 --> 01:00:22,018
and malnutrition kills someone every 10 seconds.

713
01:00:22,018 --> 01:00:26,035
These factors enable diseases to thrive and severely weaken the immune system of those

714
01:00:26,035 --> 01:00:29,080
living in such squatter.

715
01:00:30,022 --> 01:00:34,066
If we are to take all that money and put it towards developing poor countries

716
01:00:34,066 --> 01:00:37,037
God would be so proud of us indeed.

717
01:00:37,037 --> 01:00:42,022
Because we would have taken away the major challenge that's facing human kind.

718
01:00:42,022 --> 01:00:48,008
And that is people dying in silence. Slow painful deaths from being scared of something

719
01:00:48,008 --> 01:00:52,059
that was just packaged as AIDS.

720
01:00:55,002 --> 01:00:59,089
Could it be that the real epidemic is extreme poverty and not HIV?

721
01:00:59,089 --> 01:01:04,067
On the other hand. HIV allegedly occurs in the United States as well.

722
01:01:04,067 --> 01:01:10,041
So I looked for alternative causes of immunodeficiency in this wealthiest of nations.

723
01:01:10,083 --> 01:01:15,098
There are other ways you reproduce condition that looks like AIDS but they too will be

724
01:01:15,098 --> 01:01:23,023
some source that causes a severe defect in the immune response.

725
01:01:23,059 --> 01:01:31,027
90 million Americans now ate taking illegit toxemina but we don't talk about this.

726
01:01:31,027 --> 01:01:33,043
This is politically incorrect.

727
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:39,091
There have been a number of theories as to what the origin of HIV/AIDS is. One of them

728
01:01:39,091 --> 01:01:47,038
was a theory that certainly turned out to be completely incorrect. That it's a lifestyle phenomenon.

729
01:01:49,008 --> 01:01:56,082
The large epidemic of STD's in general in late 70's and particularly in gay men in San Francisco,

730
01:01:56,082 --> 01:02:02,085
New York, Los Angeles were meccas of the new lifestyle which came from the liberation

731
01:02:02,085 --> 01:02:05,027
in the post stone wall era.

732
01:02:06,085 --> 01:02:11,034
The more partners you could have the more you were striking a blow for gay live.

733
01:02:11,034 --> 01:02:15,083
I remember talking to one of the people who was in forefront of that lifestyle.

734
01:02:15,083 --> 01:02:20,053
Very much felt like - if you did have another Syphilis or Gonorrhea or whatever it might be

735
01:02:20,053 --> 01:02:27,064
that it was like a notch. Another victory notched up for his right to exist as a gay man.

736
01:02:28,004 --> 01:02:30,088
I went on a vacation to Los Angeles.

737
01:02:30,088 --> 01:02:36,095
And it wasn't that wild but in one night I went to a bath house I came home with, get this...

738
01:02:36,095 --> 01:02:44,036
At the same time Syphilis, Gonorrhea and two forms of parasites.

739
01:02:45,005 --> 01:02:49,003
I have no views about that you know in a judgmental kind of sense but certainly

740
01:02:49,003 --> 01:02:54,021
from a public health point of view that's kind of a prescription for disaster.

741
01:02:54,021 --> 01:02:57,078
Because AIDS firs occurred in these men who were not healthy. For reasons

742
01:02:57,078 --> 01:03:00,085
were obvious to everyone.

743
01:03:01,066 --> 01:03:07,060
You're talking thousands of partners. Sometimes hundreds, you know per month.

744
01:03:07,060 --> 01:03:14,087
Lots of antibiotic use. Lots of drugs use and...

745
01:03:14,087 --> 01:03:18,033
You know the result - people were getting pretty sick.

746
01:03:18,081 --> 01:03:26,007
There is a drug called amyl nitrite. It was developed in 1850's-1860's

747
01:03:26,007 --> 01:03:30,092
Came in ampules and it became know as poppers cause you pop them when you open

748
01:03:30,092 --> 01:03:34,041
these ampules to sniff them.

749
01:03:34,085 --> 01:03:40,053
The firs AIDS cases for example that Mike Godly reported were all five gay men.

750
01:03:40,053 --> 01:03:43,045
They were young. They all used poppers.

751
01:03:44,014 --> 01:03:48,052
Poppers. Somebody walks around hoffing all night. I mean. It says flammable,

752
01:03:48,052 --> 01:03:51,094
fatal if swallowed on the side of the bottle.

753
01:03:51,094 --> 01:03:57,026
They're walking around haffing it all night long. Why? Gives you a great rush.

754
01:03:58,045 --> 01:04:04,087
Poppers was a sex drug. They were in every gay bath house, every bar, every porno book store

755
01:04:04,087 --> 01:04:07,012
across the nation.

756
01:04:07,012 --> 01:04:10,000
Poppers were visible on the dance floor at the discos.

757
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:13,053
At the end of the evening the bartender would announce last call for alcohol,

758
01:04:13,053 --> 01:04:16,013
last call for poppers.

759
01:04:16,053 --> 01:04:20,026
It was like a mad wonderful kind of a dance that was being done. But if you think that

760
01:04:20,026 --> 01:04:24,012
can happen for ever you are wrong.

761
01:04:24,042 --> 01:04:32,020
Whether or not HIV exists? Whether it's a role in a weakened immune system?

762
01:04:32,020 --> 01:04:37,002
It's almost irrelevant when compare it to what was going on at that time.

763
01:04:37,022 --> 01:04:41,077
The lifestyle explanation proved politically unacceptable.

764
01:04:41,077 --> 01:04:47,036
But the virus explanation proved very, very acceptable to many different parties.

765
01:04:47,057 --> 01:04:55,053
Pneumocystis pneumonia and Kaposi's sarcoma were the hallmark diseases for AIDS in the early years.

766
01:04:55,062 --> 01:05:03,042
To go back and deconstruct and say - what exactly did caused Pneumocystis pneumonia?

767
01:05:03,073 --> 01:05:08,094
I remember the first patient that I ever saw. My resident brought me to see a young gay man

768
01:05:08,094 --> 01:05:17,002
with Pneumocystis pneumonia. I knew a little about the use of poppers or amyl nitrite inhalants.

769
01:05:17,002 --> 01:05:19,083
And I started asking a patient if he used them and it turned out to be was

770
01:05:19,083 --> 01:05:25,012
a very heavy user of amyl nitrites. And much to the surprise of my students I said:

771
01:05:25,012 --> 01:05:29,083
I think that the man probably has destroyed his pulmonary immune system

772
01:05:29,083 --> 01:05:32,045
by inhaling this toxin.

773
01:05:32,087 --> 01:05:36,049
What exactly cause Kaposi's sarcoma? We know that now.

774
01:05:36,049 --> 01:05:39,028
It was amyl nitrite.

775
01:05:39,064 --> 01:05:46,055
We saw KS decline. Interesting the parallel to the decline in popper use.

776
01:05:46,098 --> 01:05:53,086
We now know that Kaposi's sarcoma is caused by a second virus - Human herpesvirus 8 (HHV8).

777
01:05:54,006 --> 01:05:59,000
To rescue comes another virus. As always when you need... When you're in trouble

778
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:00,097
you find another virus.

779
01:06:01,014 --> 01:06:06,086
If one wants to look at really what causes this we've got to look beyond just HIV

780
01:06:06,086 --> 01:06:09,030
and just beyond HHV8.

781
01:06:09,075 --> 01:06:15,054
Calling it a disease and you give it that name - AIDS. Everything is included under that name.

782
01:06:15,054 --> 01:06:19,033
You don't have to decide. I mean you just said: - You know these people have

783
01:06:19,033 --> 01:06:23,042
a lot of diseases, all kinds of diseases you wouldn't have the same impact.

784
01:06:23,042 --> 01:06:28,042
It was much better to say: - There is infectious organism on the lose in America

785
01:06:28,042 --> 01:06:31,050
and it could get you.

786
01:06:35,075 --> 01:06:40,047
I interviewed the world's leading HIV experts and discovered that the two benchmark

787
01:06:40,047 --> 01:06:44,041
diseases of AIDS have alternate explanations.

788
01:06:44,041 --> 01:06:48,085
Once again I turned to Dr. Golderblom seeking proof of HIV's existence in the

789
01:06:48,085 --> 01:06:51,076
most resent images available.

790
01:06:52,019 --> 01:07:00,057
Here you do not see anything about the details but I would say it's probably a virus.

791
01:07:00,074 --> 01:07:03,034
These are HIV here?
-Yes.

792
01:07:03,063 --> 01:07:05,095
Are these HIV too?
-Yes, yes.

793
01:07:06,026 --> 01:07:08,095
Everything?
-Probably.

794
01:07:10,043 --> 01:07:14,041
What can I tell you? It exists.

795
01:07:17,026 --> 01:07:20,087
Gallo would say he had all that viruses and it was all a lie.

796
01:07:21,030 --> 01:07:27,084
I think HIV totally has turned out not to be the cause of AIDS. HIV has turned out no to be.

797
01:07:28,043 --> 01:07:33,073
Galderblom's images said to come from isolated HIV cultures provided no proof

798
01:07:33,073 --> 01:07:38,043
for HIV's existence. So I asked Nobel laureate Dr. David Baltimore

799
01:07:38,043 --> 01:07:43,031
and Dr. Robin Weiss how they would isolate and photograph this illusive virus.

800
01:07:44,050 --> 01:07:52,010
Well Dr. Gallo do that. I mean he actually isolated it so... Why should I do all of this?

801
01:07:52,010 --> 01:07:56,045
This is all textbook stuff you are asking me.

802
01:07:57,047 --> 01:08:01,032
I'm not quite sure what's behind your question about isolation.

803
01:08:01,038 --> 01:08:06,088
I don't want to be your textbook. You know? I got other thing to do.

804
01:08:07,085 --> 01:08:11,085
They are embarrassed. The scientists are being embarrassed about this.

805
01:08:11,085 --> 01:08:14,041
They know that it's flawed.

806
01:08:14,058 --> 01:08:21,013
In 1987 the CDC made two mind boggling changes in the definition of AIDS which are in effect today.

807
01:08:21,013 --> 01:08:25,062
You can be diagnosed with AIDS without ever having a HIV test.

808
01:08:26,026 --> 01:08:31,062
In 1987 I had galleria on my arm and it was KS - Kaposi's sarcoma.

809
01:08:31,097 --> 01:08:35,059
The doctor diagnosed you with AIDS without a HIV test? -Yes.

810
01:08:36,043 --> 01:08:40,091
You can be diagnosed with AIDS if you have tested negative for HIV.

811
01:08:41,039 --> 01:08:46,094
Albert McKeen found 16 patients with Kaposi's sarcoma among gay men

812
01:08:46,094 --> 01:08:49,042
in New York city in the 80's.

813
01:08:49,042 --> 01:08:52,084
They did not have a HIV infection.

814
01:08:52,084 --> 01:08:56,011
Yet they had AIDS by our definition, right?

815
01:08:56,054 --> 01:09:03,031
In WHO publication Dr. Chin writes - "it should be emphasized that surveillance definitions

816
01:09:03,031 --> 01:09:08,095
for AIDS were not intended to be reliable indicators for HIV infection".

817
01:09:09,034 --> 01:09:16,043
If you have thousands of documented cases of AIDS without HIV, haw can HIV cause AIDS?

818
01:09:16,088 --> 01:09:18,084
Why do you believe that HIV does cause AIDS?

819
01:09:18,084 --> 01:09:20,077
Cause that's the information I've been given.

820
01:09:20,077 --> 01:09:22,078
Because we've never been told anything different.

821
01:09:25,061 --> 01:09:28,023
Because that's what the scientific community has told us.

822
01:09:28,073 --> 01:09:36,053
Scientists are suppose to observe, experiment and reason for what they observe.

823
01:09:36,053 --> 01:09:43,016
They are not suppose to grab hold of an idea and cling to it and adjust everything else

824
01:09:43,016 --> 01:09:46,074
in their perceptions to fit that idea.

825
01:09:47,018 --> 01:09:52,007
I think a HIV positive test means that you life is for ever changed.

826
01:09:52,007 --> 01:09:58,030
You have a whole new battery of things to consider for yourself. What does it mean to me?

827
01:09:58,066 --> 01:10:04,022
It's very hard to find anyone who support you when you say

828
01:10:04,022 --> 01:10:07,076
- I don't think I'm gonna die of HIV or AIDS.

829
01:10:08,025 --> 01:10:13,069
There's the typical model of HIV equals AIDS equals death.

830
01:10:13,069 --> 01:10:16,034
How invested am I gonna be in that model?

831
01:10:16,078 --> 01:10:21,095
Everyone who's infected with HIV would like to deny it. It's a bad prognosis.

832
01:10:21,095 --> 01:10:25,030
It means you've got to take drugs for the rest of your life etc.

833
01:10:25,030 --> 01:10:30,052
So there's people who want to say - I'm one of the people who tested positive

834
01:10:30,052 --> 01:10:32,079
but I'm not gonna get the disease.

835
01:10:33,058 --> 01:10:38,048
Do I start treatment? Treatment meaning the antiviral drugs? If ever?

836
01:10:42,004 --> 01:10:48,072
We started taking Lindsy to a doctor at the children's medical clinic.

837
01:10:48,072 --> 01:10:55,065
She gave us a prescription for a retro-viral syrup which is AZT.

838
01:10:56,005 --> 01:11:01,094
It was so important for us to get something to help our baby that we sat on the floor

839
01:11:01,094 --> 01:11:05,036
at the pharmacy and gave here the first dose.

840
01:11:05,064 --> 01:11:11,010
Shortly after Lindsy began AZT treatments side effects began to emerge.

841
01:11:11,024 --> 01:11:15,043
Her eating habits changed quite a bit. She didn't eat well.

842
01:11:15,043 --> 01:11:20,034
She was hard to handle at the table. And then the leg cramp started.

843
01:11:20,034 --> 01:11:23,061
Once that's started it got progressively worse.

844
01:11:23,076 --> 01:11:28,022
She was just screaming. This screaming in the middle of the night.

845
01:11:28,022 --> 01:11:33,067
It was like... Must have been like sharp pain.

846
01:11:33,067 --> 01:11:36,050
Makes you feel sick to your stomach.

847
01:11:45,024 --> 01:11:51,038
When we switched over to the university the the dosage of AZT went up and that's

848
01:11:51,038 --> 01:11:55,002
when she started flatting out.

849
01:11:55,002 --> 01:12:00,028
The doctors were trying to put a positive spin on how well she was progressing.

850
01:12:00,028 --> 01:12:04,091
It was mainly on the T-cells that weren't always a positive positive situation.

851
01:12:05,023 --> 01:12:08,097
Yeah the T-cells count would go down and then the doctors would say - well we better

852
01:12:08,097 --> 01:12:11,081
raise that AZT dosage.

853
01:12:11,081 --> 01:12:14,083
Get that T-cell count back up.

854
01:12:14,083 --> 01:12:18,074
We were going - I think it's kind of making her sick cause she doesn't want to eat.

855
01:12:18,074 --> 01:12:23,074
She's having a leg cramps. And they\d say what is the HIV - that's what it does.

856
01:12:23,074 --> 01:12:26,008
It's all a part of the package.

857
01:12:26,022 --> 01:12:31,016
The treatment causes very similar conditions we would expect form an AIDS patient.

858
01:12:31,016 --> 01:12:36,012
That's why nobody noticed that there was something wrong with the treatment.

859
01:12:36,028 --> 01:12:42,011
I remember after 1992 after I first tested positive I became involved in an organization

860
01:12:42,011 --> 01:12:44,044
called "Women at risk".

861
01:12:44,044 --> 01:12:50,019
There were eleven of us at the time on the board and involved in the group.

862
01:12:50,019 --> 01:12:54,053
All of us except three were on medications.

863
01:12:54,053 --> 01:13:01,042
In an year and a half that I was involved with "Women at risk" every single woman

864
01:13:01,042 --> 01:13:08,016
in that organization on the drugs died. Every single one. Except the three of us

865
01:13:08,016 --> 01:13:11,045
who weren't taking them.

866
01:13:16,028 --> 01:13:20,028
We weren't just given handful of ATZ. We demanded it.

867
01:13:24,066 --> 01:13:32,068
We considered the FDA not giving us these things as being anti-gay. Instead of being responsible.

868
01:13:32,068 --> 01:13:37,077
And so we went lobbying and we pushed for all these things. And we didn't think

869
01:13:37,077 --> 01:13:41,030
clearly about what it was we were asking for. It's the same like - Be careful what you've

870
01:13:41,030 --> 01:13:43,041
asked for it might come to pass.

871
01:13:43,058 --> 01:13:48,037
That\s the very reason why everybody believes HIV is a deadly virus.

872
01:13:48,037 --> 01:13:52,031
Because the HIV positive patients at that time got a deadly treatment.

873
01:13:52,071 --> 01:13:58,029
Despite the billions spent on the drugs tens of thousands of people today will die.

874
01:13:58,029 --> 01:14:03,023
And now a growing number of studies are questioning the drugs usefulness.

875
01:14:06,097 --> 01:14:15,033
We just decided between ourselves and... In November to write to Peter Duesberg

876
01:14:15,033 --> 01:14:19,098
And say - Sorry to bother you. Are you for real? And if Lindsy was your daughter

877
01:14:19,098 --> 01:14:22,010
what would you do?

878
01:14:22,021 --> 01:14:27,020
On November 11-th we got a big package and he said - You gotta take your daughter of AZT

879
01:14:27,020 --> 01:14:31,036
immediately of she will die from it like kimberly Bergalis.

880
01:14:31,095 --> 01:14:36,022
That is AIDS by prescription. You get immunodeficiency and you die from the toxin.

881
01:14:36,022 --> 01:14:38,094
That is AIDS by prescription.

882
01:14:39,037 --> 01:14:47,006
When AZT became widely available in 1985-1986 I cautioned my patients not to jump

883
01:14:47,006 --> 01:14:50,019
on the band wagon and start being treated.

884
01:14:50,019 --> 01:14:56,022
I didn't want to see my community poisoned by an infective therapy.

885
01:14:56,091 --> 01:15:03,003
I think in retrospect the dose they started with AZT was a dangerous and poorly tolerated dose.

886
01:15:03,039 --> 01:15:09,067
Nobody wants to realize what was the real effect of this over treatment.

887
01:15:09,067 --> 01:15:14,056
That means that we killed a whole generation of AIDS patients.

888
01:15:23,011 --> 01:15:27,015
In '96 David Ho announced highly active anty retro viral therapy.

889
01:15:28,014 --> 01:15:31,073
Also known as the cocktail because the treatment combined a newly developed

890
01:15:31,073 --> 01:15:37,076
protease inhibitors with older HIV drugs such the chemotherapy drug - AZT.

891
01:15:38,005 --> 01:15:45,089
That was a revolution. What was 100% fatal illness now could be treated.

892
01:15:46,029 --> 01:15:53,006
The AIDS medication today is not that toxic then it was in the early days.

893
01:15:53,006 --> 01:15:59,053
And it's important drug regime that means it kills almost everything.

894
01:16:00,084 --> 01:16:05,055
I play around with treatment interruption because I think the drugs are toxic.

895
01:16:05,055 --> 01:16:12,098
And If I do the drugs continuously without interruption I think they'd have a cumulative damage.

896
01:16:13,050 --> 01:16:21,014
In the years that we've being the cocktail we found that there are lots of side effects.

897
01:16:21,058 --> 01:16:26,000
In South Africa I spoke to couple of pharmacists specialized in a HIV treatment.

898
01:16:26,028 --> 01:16:28,096
How often do you see side effects in patients?

899
01:16:29,047 --> 01:16:32,067
All the time? 
- Yes, almost all the time.

900
01:16:32,094 --> 01:16:38,039
We saw the lipodystrophy, the buffalo humps at the back of the neck and the lipoatrophy

901
01:16:38,039 --> 01:16:43,067
which is the loss of fat in the face and the arms giving people a very blunt look.

902
01:16:44,043 --> 01:16:49,025
The risk of heart attack seams to be increased in people on these drugs.

903
01:16:49,088 --> 01:16:54,079
With what we have no the side effects eventually are gonna out way the benefits.

904
01:16:54,093 --> 01:17:04,093
So the patients really do better for the short therm but in the long therm they die also.

905
01:17:07,047 --> 01:17:12,080
In 1994 Audrey Serrano tested HIV positive. While initially healthy she was prescribed

906
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:17,059
AIDS drugs which nearly killed her and left her scarved for life.

907
01:17:18,026 --> 01:17:23,020
In December 2007 after multiple negative tests she was awarded 2.5 million dollars

908
01:17:23,020 --> 01:17:25,093
in damages.

909
01:17:26,038 --> 01:17:29,024
Some people are very fortunate. They don't have these side effects.

910
01:17:29,024 --> 01:17:33,069
But many people do. So prolonged treatment is impossible.

911
01:17:33,090 --> 01:17:39,091
I know people were like horses, have no impact with some drugs, no side effects.

912
01:17:39,091 --> 01:17:42,060
And somebody else falls apart.

913
01:17:57,047 --> 01:18:03,080
Has a patient ever die form side effects?
-Yeah. Sometimes.

914
01:18:04,095 --> 01:18:06,087
Sometimes it happens.

915
01:18:07,050 --> 01:18:10,093
AIDS drugs are all classified as black box drugs.

916
01:18:10,093 --> 01:18:17,066
A black box drug is the most severe waring that RFDA would put on a product.

917
01:18:17,066 --> 01:18:22,014
It means you can die taking this because other people have died taking this.

918
01:18:23,078 --> 01:18:30,006
My sister Joyce was my best friend. She's a great mom

919
01:18:30,006 --> 01:18:34,010
and just a very lively person.

920
01:18:34,095 --> 01:18:39,024
In 2003 Joyce found out she was pregnant with with her second child.

921
01:18:39,024 --> 01:18:44,031
She was offered a HIV test as a standard prenatal care by her obstetrician.

922
01:18:44,066 --> 01:18:48,043
She called me at work and she said - I have something to tell you.

923
01:18:48,043 --> 01:18:50,025
And I said - What is it?

924
01:18:50,025 --> 01:18:53,000
She said I'm HIV positive.

925
01:18:53,054 --> 01:18:56,062
I took a big breath and said - Well it's not the end of the world.

926
01:18:56,062 --> 01:19:01,063
And she said - I met this doctor today and he's a specialist and said that

927
01:19:01,063 --> 01:19:07,007
there is some medicines I can take that will keep my baby from being HIV positive.

928
01:19:07,087 --> 01:19:09,043
NEVIRAPINE.

929
01:19:09,043 --> 01:19:15,054
Warning - severe life threatening skin reactions, including fatal cases...

930
01:19:16,047 --> 01:19:23,023
One morning she was covered in these wilts and these rash. It was all over her face

931
01:19:23,023 --> 01:19:28,022
all over her chest, all over arms and hands.

932
01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:34,088
When they are talking about a rash that can kill you they are talking about a drug that targets

933
01:19:34,088 --> 01:19:42,058
the actively replicating cells in your dermis in your mucous layers in your intestinal...

934
01:19:42,058 --> 01:19:48,025
And stops the from working. And what happens - goodbye skin.

935
01:19:48,085 --> 01:19:54,079
I would never take them. I look it. I don't have problem with other people taking them

936
01:19:54,079 --> 01:20:00,017
but I as Criselda Kananda looking at the side effects that they come with, looking

937
01:20:00,017 --> 01:20:06,041
at the toxins they present in my body... Not now. Not ever.

938
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:14,034
I have patients tested in 1985. They know all advises to take treatments but they declined

939
01:20:14,034 --> 01:20:18,011
the treatment for different reasons.

940
01:20:19,026 --> 01:20:23,005
Because they don't want to take toxic works, because they are feeling well at that time.

941
01:20:23,025 --> 01:20:25,011
And how are they doing today?

942
01:20:25,029 --> 01:20:26,075
They are still living.
-Healthy?

943
01:20:26,095 --> 01:20:28,016
Yes.

944
01:20:29,042 --> 01:20:34,093
Once we came to the conclusion that it was the drug that was causing the problem

945
01:20:34,093 --> 01:20:41,004
regardless of what HIV was going to do, she was gonna come off the drug no mater what.

946
01:20:41,064 --> 01:20:45,011
If taking her off the drugs meant that she could sleep for the night and be happy

947
01:20:45,011 --> 01:20:51,036
for 6 months that would be worth it, rather than live in agony for 2 years of 12 months.

948
01:20:51,091 --> 01:20:56,099
You hear a lot of doctors, you hear a lot of educators, you hear a lot of people talk about.

949
01:20:56,099 --> 01:21:04,007
It is probably the drugs that are gonna kill us before the disease does.

950
01:21:09,046 --> 01:21:15,069
What are the drugs doing to the bodies they are putting the bodies into coffins.

951
01:21:16,027 --> 01:21:21,089
Before my sister started taking the drugs she was healthy. After she started the drugs

952
01:21:21,089 --> 01:21:28,042
she developed an allergic reaction which made her look like a patient with full blown AIDS.

953
01:21:28,042 --> 01:21:35,052
She was admitted to the hospital. She continue to spiral down. And within 37 days

954
01:21:35,052 --> 01:21:40,072
from her first day of taking the medicine she was gone.

955
01:21:42,071 --> 01:21:47,060
When news of Joyce's death reached the NIH emails were exchanged between the director

956
01:21:47,060 --> 01:21:52,022
of AIDS division and the ethics and safety officer.

957
01:21:52,022 --> 01:21:57,025
Ed: there was fulminant liver failure resulting in a death on this trial last week...

958
01:21:57,025 --> 01:22:01,034
Ouch! Not much we can do about dumd docs.

959
01:22:02,072 --> 01:22:09,036
They are cynical enough to introduce drugs that they know will have toxic effects

960
01:22:09,036 --> 01:22:16,071
and will carry certain mortality and they know that the life of the drug before this mortality becomes

961
01:22:16,071 --> 01:22:19,064
too obvious to ignore in say two or three years.

962
01:22:19,064 --> 01:22:22,097
And they work out what the sales are gonna be in those two or three years.

963
01:22:22,097 --> 01:22:26,002
And then they know they gonna have to reduce the dose.

964
01:22:26,067 --> 01:22:33,061
Joyce has two sons. Jamal would be... He's in the senior high school this year.

965
01:22:33,061 --> 01:22:37,014
Sterling would be 4 years old.

966
01:22:42,039 --> 01:22:49,041
If someone's gonna be giving me a diagnosis of certain death in 5 to 7 years I want scientific proof.

967
01:22:49,041 --> 01:22:51,059
This isn't a religion.

968
01:22:51,087 --> 01:22:58,028
My interest in questioning and breaking and exploring this "HIV cause AIDS"

969
01:22:58,028 --> 01:23:05,056
is an instinct to liberate the people from a death sentence that isn't theirs to carry.

970
01:23:06,002 --> 01:23:09,020
After we took Lindsy off AZT her weight did go up.

971
01:23:09,032 --> 01:23:11,093
Within a couple of days the leg cramps went away.

972
01:23:12,012 --> 01:23:16,083
And here physical body seamed to be doing pretty well but when she was disturbed

973
01:23:16,083 --> 01:23:20,028
she was agitated very easily.

974
01:23:21,057 --> 01:23:27,043
Her lifespan changed all the time. After she got to be two years old, the she'd only live

975
01:23:27,043 --> 01:23:29,063
to be five.

976
01:23:30,052 --> 01:23:34,072
Which got to be all in order and they said she might live to be seven

977
01:23:35,060 --> 01:23:38,059
Yeah but definitely wouldn't live in double digits.

978
01:23:38,059 --> 01:23:42,093
That just was our live then.

979
01:23:44,006 --> 01:23:51,053
Although Lindsy was on AZT for 24 months she made a full recovery form the pretentious side effects.

980
01:23:51,053 --> 01:23:55,087
Lindsy would be 19 in October of 2009.

981
01:23:56,022 --> 01:24:03,070
Because it's being surrounded from day one with so much emotion, so much fear,

982
01:24:03,070 --> 01:24:14,025
so much psychology, so much drama very few people are capable of looking at AIDS logically.

983
01:24:24,089 --> 01:24:29,048
If you have a good immune system then your body can actually get rid of HIV?

984
01:24:32,052 --> 01:24:36,084
If you take a poor African who has been infected and you build up their immune system

985
01:24:36,084 --> 01:24:40,054
is it possible for them to also naturally get rid of it?

986
01:24:45,004 --> 01:24:50,081
It's very easy to get people to think the right thing if you get to write it on a tablet to first time.

987
01:24:50,081 --> 01:24:56,005
But once that was on the tablet and you got to erase it and put something else it's very hard

988
01:24:56,005 --> 01:24:58,073
to get people thing differently.

989
01:24:59,025 --> 01:25:03,068
The victims of HIV and the dedicated professionals combating it deserve our sympathy,

990
01:25:03,068 --> 01:25:06,081
compassion and respect.

991
01:25:06,081 --> 01:25:11,066
However at journeys I find myself perplexed bewildered times with an overall fealing

992
01:25:11,066 --> 01:25:14,002
of dismay and sadness.

993
01:25:14,002 --> 01:25:19,022
I found a research community in disarray over the most fundamental understanding of HIV,

994
01:25:19,022 --> 01:25:23,073
although while presenting a monolithic public pasture of authority and certainty.

995
01:25:23,073 --> 01:25:29,059
Bluntly stated we have tested prove nothing. Remedies that kill and statistics manipulated

996
01:25:29,059 --> 01:25:32,027
to the point of absurdity.

997
01:25:32,027 --> 01:25:37,075
90% of global HIV corresponds to area of great poverty and squatter.

998
01:25:37,075 --> 01:25:43,051
Ironically while we may have been persuading a phantom killer, a shape shifting assassin,

999
01:25:43,051 --> 01:25:50,087
perhaps the real enemy has been hiding in plain view, clear as day and it's old as time.