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Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.00,0:00:04.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Sarah Haider: Islam and\Nthe Necessity of Liberal Critique]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:04.02,0:00:07.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Moderator) Hi everybody and welcome\Nto this next presentation entitled
Dialogue: 0,0:00:07.26,0:00:10.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Islam and the Necessity of Liberal Critique".
Dialogue: 0,0:00:10.73,0:00:15.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd like to welcome Sarah Haider,\Nwho is one of the co-founders
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.41,0:00:18.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Ex Muslims of North America group.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:18.01,0:00:20.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, please join me in welcoming Sarah.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:20.04,0:00:26.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Applause)
Dialogue: 0,0:00:29.30,0:00:30.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Sarah Haider) Hi Everyone,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:30.30,0:00:32.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Audience member) Hello
Dialogue: 0,0:00:32.41,0:00:37.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm Sarah, and for the last two years \NI have worked to build an organization
Dialogue: 0,0:00:37.67,0:00:39.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for non-theist ex-Muslims,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:40.26,0:00:43.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those who once \Nidentified themselves with Islam.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:43.71,0:00:47.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and now call themselves atheists, \Nagnostics or deists;
Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.14,0:00:50.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the organization is called \NEx-Muslims of North America.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:50.70,0:00:54.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are a relatively new organization, \Nbut we are growing quickly
Dialogue: 0,0:00:54.67,0:00:57.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we now have communities \Nof ex-Muslims
Dialogue: 0,0:00:57.11,0:00:59.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in over fifteen cities.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.62,0:01:03.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As you can imagine, it is notoriously \Ndifficult for ex-Muslims
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.69,0:01:07.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to find others like ourselves. \NTrying to build friendships among people
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.83,0:01:12.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are often under siege and deep \Nin the closet is incredibly difficult.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:13.32,0:01:16.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the first place, how do you even find \Npeople who are often deliberately
Dialogue: 0,0:01:16.76,0:01:18.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doing their best to stay undercover?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.32,0:01:23.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As an organization we work to provide \Nex-Muslims with much needed support,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:23.36,0:01:25.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,support to free themselves \Nfrom the shackles of religion
Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.100,0:01:28.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to be themselves, to learn about \Neach other's suffering,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:28.90,0:01:30.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and above all else, endure.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:32.60,0:01:35.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are in a peculiar situation, \Nmy colleagues and I,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.22,0:01:39.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we are intimately connected with more \Ngodless ex-Muslims
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.78,0:01:41.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than likely anyone else in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.34,0:01:45.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have heard thousands of stories \Nfrom hundreds of people,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.82,0:01:48.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about their experiences with Islam.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:48.81,0:01:52.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some lucky few were able to leave \Nthe faith with little consequence,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:52.46,0:01:56.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the relationships with their families \Nand friends and communities
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.54,0:01:57.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,remained intact.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.11,0:02:00.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But for most, this was not the case.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:01.10,0:02:03.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our journeys have seen \Ntremendous struggles.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:03.21,0:02:08.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For some the cost was only social, \Nloss of friends and families.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.54,0:02:12.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For others, they risked their health and \Nmental well-being
Dialogue: 0,0:02:12.08,0:02:16.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from being locked into psychiatric wards \Nto enduring physical violence
Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.62,0:02:18.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from all family members.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:18.81,0:02:22.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ex-Muslims, arguably \Nmore than any other group,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.09,0:02:25.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are deeply familiar with the problems \Nentrenched within Muslim communities
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.70,0:02:28.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and inherent within Islamic scriptures.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:28.73,0:02:32.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As most of us happen to be both \Npeople of color
Dialogue: 0,0:02:32.41,0:02:34.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and first- or second- generation \Nimmigrants,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.98,0:02:36.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we are doubly affected,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.59,0:02:39.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both by hatred and violence \Nfrom Muslims,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.44,0:02:43.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but also bigotry and xenophobia\Nfrom the broader American public.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:44.64,0:02:47.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Despite all this, my experience \Nover the last two years
Dialogue: 0,0:02:47.99,0:02:52.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has made me wary of speaking up, \Neven to an audience such as this.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.31,0:02:56.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I always expected feeling unwelcome \Nfrom Muslim audiences,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:56.78,0:03:00.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I did not anticipate \Nan equal amount of hostility
Dialogue: 0,0:03:00.18,0:03:01.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from my allies on the Left.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:02.93,0:03:05.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example, \Nwhen I first published a piece,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.23,0:03:09.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fact-checking Reza Aslan,\Nwho is a prominent Muslim scholar,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.68,0:03:12.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on his dismissal of \Nfemale genital mutilation
Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.24,0:03:15.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as only an African problem, \Nnot a Muslim one,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:16.09,0:03:19.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I got many responses from people \Nunhappy with what I wrote,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.76,0:03:22.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,almost all of whom \Nquestioned my motives
Dialogue: 0,0:03:22.44,0:03:24.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rather than addressing my claims.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:24.58,0:03:27.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To my surprise, most of my critics \Nwere not Muslims.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.32,0:03:31.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rather they identified as liberals \Nand sometimes even atheists.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.66,0:03:38.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some darkly alluded to my "agenda" and \Nothers claimed that as a former Muslim,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:38.63,0:03:42.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was no way I could be trusted \Nwith fair criticism.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:42.62,0:03:44.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now remember, I published a fact-check.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.20,0:03:48.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It seems to me that it would be easy \Nto verify my claims,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.63,0:03:51.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fact-check the fact-check, so to speak.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:52.15,0:03:56.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But instead, Muslims and some people \Non the Left preferred instead
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.12,0:04:00.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to throw around suspicions \Nabout my character and my intentions.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:01.02,0:04:03.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those who oppose \NChristian authoritarianism
Dialogue: 0,0:04:03.35,0:04:07.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will find that the broad majority \Nof liberals, religious or non-religious,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:07.92,0:04:10.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,side with them \Nand will ofter their support
Dialogue: 0,0:04:10.06,0:04:13.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the fight to push religious morals \Nout of our politics and public life.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.34,0:04:17.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even religious liberals \Nsometimes look upon
Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.03,0:04:20.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the politically-charged religious right \Nwith distaste
Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.15,0:04:24.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and some work with secularists \Nto keep them out of our politics.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:24.47,0:04:25.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The executive director for
Dialogue: 0,0:04:25.51,0:04:27.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Americans United for {Separation of} \NChurch and State, for example,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:27.68,0:04:28.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is an ordained minister.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.01,0:04:33.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Atheists and secularists \Ncan feel secure in the knowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:04:33.43,0:04:35.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that their allies on the liberal Left \Nwill stand with them
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.77,0:04:39.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when their target is \Nthe far-right Christians.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:39.55,0:04:42.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It makes sense: liberals don't share \Nmuch, many common values
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.96,0:04:44.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the religious right.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:44.49,0:04:46.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But when the same scrutiny \Nis applied to Islam,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:46.75,0:04:52.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you find that inexplicably some people \Non the Left begin to align instead
Dialogue: 0,0:04:52.07,0:04:54.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the Islamic religious right.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:54.92,0:04:58.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The consistent exception has been \Nthe secular and atheist communities.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.81,0:05:05.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When luminaries of disbelief movement \Nlike Harris and Dawkins speak about
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.62,0:05:10.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the horrors of Christianity and write \Nbooks condemning it, they are cheered,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.74,0:05:14.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their works lionized, their presence \Nsought at events and conferences.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:15.02,0:05:17.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But when they turn \Nthe same critical gaze
Dialogue: 0,0:05:17.15,0:05:18.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,towards the religion of my family,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.91,0:05:21.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they are told to cease \Nsuch offensive talk,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:21.03,0:05:24.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to refrain from criticizing \Nthe same oppressive forces
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.97,0:05:26.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they criticized in the past.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.30,0:05:29.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is an instinct to pigeon-hole \Nanyone
Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.56,0:05:32.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who says something negative about \NIslam, to broadly label them
Dialogue: 0,0:05:32.85,0:05:34.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in such a way that nearly guarantees
Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.59,0:05:37.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that most on the Left will ignore \Nwhat they have to say.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:38.06,0:05:42.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first method, I found, of people dismissing my claims, has been that
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.22,0:05:45.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,since as a brown person I can't easily \Nbe painted as a bigot,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:45.46,0:05:48.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that I must be pro-war
Dialogue: 0,0:05:48.15,0:05:51.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or broadly support the far-right agenda \Nin some way.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.78,0:05:53.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is not true.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.71,0:05:58.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sometimes I am called an Uncle Tom \Nor a house Arab.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.18,0:06:00.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Another term thrown around \Nat ex-Muslims
Dialogue: 0,0:06:00.94,0:06:03.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and other brown critics of Islam
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.44,0:06:05.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is "native informants".
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.77,0:06:07.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This was my first time hearing this.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.85,0:06:11.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I won't go into the many reasons why \Nthis is an impressively disgusting thing
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.55,0:06:14.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to call someone, \Nwith the vague implication
Dialogue: 0,0:06:14.78,0:06:18.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we are brainwashed in some way, \Nor are betraying our own kind.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.41,0:06:23.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While it is somewhat understandable, \Nwhy someone like Myriam Francois,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.03,0:06:28.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who is a white convert to Islam, why she \Nwould refer to us as native informants,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:28.22,0:06:32.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is beyond my comprehension how \Nsuch a transparently racist term
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.69,0:06:34.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was used by the journalist \NMax Blumenthal
Dialogue: 0,0:06:34.71,0:06:37.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in his article condemning Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.25,0:06:40.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to cast a shadow over \Nher role in this debate.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:40.83,0:06:42.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wonder if Blumenthal \Nwould feel comfortable
Dialogue: 0,0:06:42.69,0:06:46.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using similarly racist terms\Nagainst anti-clerical dissidents
Dialogue: 0,0:06:46.26,0:06:49.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from African-American \Nor other minority communities.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:50.03,0:06:52.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bill Maher is someone \Nwho has been painted
Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.20,0:06:54.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the Left and the Right as a bigot.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.04,0:06:58.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once on his show, Bill Maher \Nmentioned the high rates of support
Dialogue: 0,0:06:58.03,0:07:01.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the death penalty for the crime of \Natheism in Muslim communities.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:01.65,0:07:04.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In response, Dean Obeidallah,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:04.16,0:07:07.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who is a comedian and author \Nand liberal Muslim,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:07.75,0:07:12.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,attempted to defend the Muslim \Ncountries by pointing out errors
Dialogue: 0,0:07:12.16,0:07:13.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the statistics Maher used.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:14.48,0:07:16.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me quote his piece on CNN.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.21,0:07:21.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He says - "a 2013 Pew poll \Nactually found
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.02,0:07:25.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that only 64% of Egyptians supported this"
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.06,0:07:30.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- by this he means the death penalty - \N"still alarmingly high, but not 90%"
Dialogue: 0,0:07:30.89,0:07:36.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and only thirteen Muslim nations have \Npenalties for apostasy, while 34 do not".
Dialogue: 0,0:07:38.55,0:07:41.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can we realistically imagine something \Nlike that being published
Dialogue: 0,0:07:41.76,0:07:48.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if it was about any other minority, in \Nan honest effort to downplay the horror?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:48.95,0:07:51.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What if it was "only 64% of Americans
Dialogue: 0,0:07:51.72,0:07:54.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,support the death penalty \Nfor converts to Islam"
Dialogue: 0,0:07:54.69,0:07:56.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Muslims don't have it that bad -
Dialogue: 0,0:07:56.86,0:08:01.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"only 64% of French citizens support the \Ndeath penalty for Algerian immigrants"
Dialogue: 0,0:08:01.72,0:08:05.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or "only 64% of Americans support \Nthe death penalty for homosexuality"?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.75,0:08:11.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How bad is the situation, \Nhow terrible the human rights abuses
Dialogue: 0,0:08:11.02,0:08:14.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how little the worth \Nof the life of a human being,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:14.34,0:08:19.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when 64% is viewed \Nas a defensive statistic?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:20.64,0:08:23.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If the situation was that a fully \None-third of western nations
Dialogue: 0,0:08:23.18,0:08:26.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had legalized the murder of Muslims, \Nhow appalled would we be?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:26.51,0:08:28.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What would the Left's reaction be?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:29.48,0:08:33.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As an ex-Muslim I am horrified that \Nsomething like this would be published
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.18,0:08:35.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the web-site \Nof a major news organization
Dialogue: 0,0:08:35.39,0:08:38.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not a single voice \Nwas raised in outrage.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:38.59,0:08:40.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why is my life worth less?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.05,0:08:44.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Does my simply being raised \Nin an Islamic tradition
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.02,0:08:48.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,grant the Islamic religious right \Novert ownership over me and my body,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:48.96,0:08:52.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,grant them license to murder me \Nand my fellow atheists?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:53.10,0:08:57.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The claim actually being made \Nby citing this statistic was that Maher
Dialogue: 0,0:08:57.21,0:09:02.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was supposedly making too much of \Na fuss of atheist persecution by Muslims.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:04.04,0:09:07.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now I do not wish to denigrate \Nthe author, Dean Obeidallah,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:07.41,0:09:10.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but to illustrate \Nthe depth of the problem,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.16,0:09:13.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that in trying to defend what he \Nperceived to be an injustice to Muslims,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.30,0:09:16.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he did not even notice \Nthe depravity of what he wrote.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.51,0:09:21.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As a consequence an audience \Non the Left now frightens me
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.48,0:09:24.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nearly as much as \Nan audience of Islamists does.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.08,0:09:28.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have had to think long and hard about \Nwhether I want to give this talk today,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:28.63,0:09:31.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to what extent I should mince my words,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:31.70,0:09:34.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what consequence \Nit would have on my work.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:34.60,0:09:37.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not my intention to cause offense \Nbut I firmly believe
Dialogue: 0,0:09:37.89,0:09:40.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there are things that need to be \Nsaid, elephants in the room
Dialogue: 0,0:09:40.76,0:09:45.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that no one but some bigots on the \Nfar right are willing to acknowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.74,0:09:48.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,\NWe are all, I hope, familiar with what happened
Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.25,0:09:50.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on January 7th at the offices \Nof Charlie Hebdo.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.55,0:09:55.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Masked gunmen killed twelve people, \Nshouting Allahu Akbar!,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.04,0:09:59.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,later revealed to be two brothers, \NFrench nationals of Algerian origin.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:59.99,0:10:05.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was global outrage and a large \Nshow of solidarity for the cartoonists,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:05.05,0:10:08.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which appeared to be the obviously \Nrighteous things to do.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:08.08,0:10:10.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Until of course the religious \Nbegan to speak up
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.27,0:10:14.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with claims of "provocation" \Nand hurt feelings.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.06,0:10:17.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that was to be expected, Islamists \Nhave been saying that for years,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:17.95,0:10:21.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and indeed, no religion really accepts \Nany form of ridicule
Dialogue: 0,0:10:23.49,0:10:25.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- if they have a choice in the matter, that is say.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.99,0:10:28.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, what was more distressing to me,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:28.07,0:10:31.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was the response from many \Nof my allies on the Left.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:31.00,0:10:33.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Over and over I heard the claim that \NCharlie Hebdo was somehow
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.80,0:10:38.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a racist publication, and while, \Nof course, of course,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:38.05,0:10:40.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,murder is always wrong \Nand should be condemned,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:40.50,0:10:42.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is nonetheless "understandable"
Dialogue: 0,0:10:42.87,0:10:45.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the gunmen would feel \Nprovoked by the cartoons.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:46.10,0:10:48.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, I don't know about you, but I don't \Nwant to meet the man
Dialogue: 0,0:10:48.62,0:10:52.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who "understands" why someone would \Nfeel compelled to murder another man
Dialogue: 0,0:10:52.18,0:11:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because he didn't like a cartoon \Nthat he drew. (applause).
Dialogue: 0,0:11:02.40,0:11:05.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's important to realize that mocking \Nand critique are not that different
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.98,0:11:08.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the eyes of the most religious people.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:08.82,0:11:12.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is no fair amount \Nof fair and friendly criticism
Dialogue: 0,0:11:12.50,0:11:16.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the very religious will accept if \Nthey have the power to shut it down,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:16.10,0:11:19.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as evidenced by the prohibition \Non heretical speech
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.58,0:11:21.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in theocratic states throughout history.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:22.28,0:11:25.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a curious \Ndouble-standard at play.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.57,0:11:29.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When Muslim clerics and activists \Nthat are known to be
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.58,0:11:33.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anti-Semites and homophobes \Nare welcomed on campuses,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:33.46,0:11:38.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,touring nationally, invited to give \Nlectures by Muslim student associations,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:38.61,0:11:42.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,while feminists like Asra Nomani, \Nwho has been fighting
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.15,0:11:45.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the equality of the sexes, \Nfor the right of female entry
Dialogue: 0,0:11:45.18,0:11:47.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the priestly class, \Nis branded as a bigot
Dialogue: 0,0:11:47.73,0:11:50.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the same Muslim student organizations
Dialogue: 0,0:11:50.11,0:11:52.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the authorities \Nat universities like Duke
Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.66,0:11:55.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,succumb to this brazen attempt \Nto silence her.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:55.75,0:11:58.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Similar patterns are repeated \Nacross the Western world.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:59.23,0:12:01.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maryam Namazie, \Nwho is an ex-Muslim activist,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:01.92,0:12:06.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was dis-invited to speak at Trinity, \NAyaan Hirsi Ali at Brandeis.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:06.51,0:12:09.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The British Students Union \Nnow allies itself broadly
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.99,0:12:13.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with Islamist organizations such as CAGE.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.11,0:12:16.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To quote Nick Cohen from his article \Nfrom the Guardian,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:17.63,0:12:20.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"University managers are no better than \Ntheir teenage heresy hunters.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:21.38,0:12:24.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They say they want to oppose \Nradical Islam in argument.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:25.21,0:12:28.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Lawyers' Secular Society \Ntook them at their word.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:28.74,0:12:32.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It tried to present an investigation \Nat the University of West London
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.76,0:12:36.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into Islamist groups that were \Nall over campuses,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:36.03,0:12:40.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,despite their record of advocating \NJew hatred, homophobia and misogyny.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:41.11,0:12:44.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The university authorities \Nbanned the secularists."
Dialogue: 0,0:12:46.07,0:12:49.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me be clear. I don't think anyone,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:49.04,0:12:52.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even bigots emerging from Muslim \Ncommunities or anywhere else,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:52.32,0:12:53.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should be silenced.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:53.51,0:12:57.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What I ask is that we stand up \Nfor the right to speak of all,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:57.20,0:12:59.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including those both \Nthose who stand with us
Dialogue: 0,0:12:59.98,0:13:02.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and those who call for the death \Nof our fellow dis-believers.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:03.58,0:13:07.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our society functions because \Nwe believe that hurt feelings
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.10,0:13:10.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mean essentially nothing \Nin the eyes of our justice system.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.35,0:13:14.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But of course it is claimed that \Nthis is a special case,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:14.07,0:13:16.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because these aren't just \Npersonal hurt feelings,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:16.68,0:13:20.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these are religious hurt feelings, \Nand not just any religion,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:20.23,0:13:23.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the religion of the underdog, \Nof the brown man.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.07,0:13:26.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the Left decided long ago \Nthat the hurt feelings
Dialogue: 0,0:13:26.59,0:13:30.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Christian religion mattered little, \Nand it was imperative
Dialogue: 0,0:13:30.11,0:13:32.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we disabuse the notion \Nthat Christianity
Dialogue: 0,0:13:32.53,0:13:35.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would ever feel safe from criticism \Nor even outright mockery.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:35.89,0:13:40.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Indeed many of our greatest thinkers \Nhave delighted in exercising this right.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.89,0:13:46.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to quote Thomas Paine, from his \Nbook, The Age of Reason:
Dialogue: 0,0:13:47.22,0:13:50.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Whenever we read the obscene stories, \Nthe voluptuous debaucheries,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:50.37,0:13:54.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the cruel and torturous executions, \Nthe unrelenting vindictiveness,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:54.87,0:13:57.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with which more than half \Nthe Bible is filled,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:57.02,0:13:59.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it would be more consistent that \Nwe called it the word of a demon,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:59.88,0:14:01.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than the word of God.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:01.31,0:14:05.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is a history of wickedness, that has \Nserved to corrupt and brutalize mankind;
Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.80,0:14:11.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, \Nas I detest everything that is cruel"
Dialogue: 0,0:14:12.78,0:14:17.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wonder if Paine had been murdered \Nfor his outright contempt of Christianity,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:17.34,0:14:20.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how different would the West look today?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.01,0:14:24.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what message such a gruesome deed \Nwould have sent?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:24.14,0:14:26.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how many people would it have silenced
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.42,0:14:28.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with its promise of \Nmore bloodshed to come
Dialogue: 0,0:14:28.41,0:14:31.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if they had the audacity \Nto repeat his crime?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:32.28,0:14:37.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Would that fear have silenced those who \Ninsisted on the freedom of speech?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:37.62,0:14:40.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How would that have affected \Nthe face of our nation?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:40.49,0:14:44.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now I hope that you will reflect with me, \Non the fact that
Dialogue: 0,0:14:44.28,0:14:46.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not only was he not murdered,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:46.45,0:14:49.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,neither were his contemporaries \Nwho mocked religion,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:49.47,0:14:54.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also even then three centuries ago,\NI don't believe he contemplated the idea
Dialogue: 0,0:14:54.28,0:14:56.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that writing would actually \Nlead to his death.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:56.94,0:14:59.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And yet, in the twenty-first century,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.05,0:15:02.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is the reality of those who speak out\Nagainst Islam in Muslim countries
Dialogue: 0,0:15:02.57,0:15:04.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and increasingly in Western ones.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:05.96,0:15:09.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is not uncommon to hear from \Ncommentators in various media outlets
Dialogue: 0,0:15:09.23,0:15:12.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the victims of Charlie Hebdo had \Nsomehow provoked others
Dialogue: 0,0:15:12.75,0:15:16.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with their offensive cartoons \Ninto taking their lives.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:16.69,0:15:22.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The sentiment seems to be that \Nthe cartoonists must to some degree
Dialogue: 0,0:15:22.05,0:15:24.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be held accountable for their own murders,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:24.68,0:15:28.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even as dozens of cartoonists \Nfrom the East drew panels
Dialogue: 0,0:15:28.01,0:15:30.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in support of their counterparts \Nin the West,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:30.72,0:15:32.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,risking their own lives \Nfor freedom of speech.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:35.10,0:15:38.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Two months ago, PEN, an organization \Nthat has stood for free speech
Dialogue: 0,0:15:38.46,0:15:42.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for nearly a century, announced their \Ndecision to honor
Dialogue: 0,0:15:42.62,0:15:44.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the magazine Charlie Hebdo
Dialogue: 0,0:15:44.07,0:15:46.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the PEN \NFreedom of Expression Courage Award.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.91,0:15:49.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yet amongst those that were \Nmembers of PEN,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:49.98,0:15:52.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there were some that refused to stand \Nwith Charlie Hebdo,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:52.49,0:15:56.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,initially six table heads \Nand as of now, 204 writers.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:57.53,0:16:00.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would like to remind everyone \Nthat we've been here before.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.95,0:16:04.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When Salman Rushdie had a fatwa \Ncalling for his death,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:04.41,0:16:08.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PEN America under Susan Sontag's \Nstewardship stood for him,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:08.81,0:16:13.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even while a significant percentage \Nof the intelligentsia cast him aside.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:13.49,0:16:16.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Figures as diverse as \Nthe Archbishop of Canterbury
Dialogue: 0,0:16:16.60,0:16:19.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to multiple members \Nof the British Parliament,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:19.25,0:16:25.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of whom condemned Rushdie as, \Nquote, an outstanding villain,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:25.14,0:16:29.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whose, quote, public life has been \Na record of despicable acts of betrayal
Dialogue: 0,0:16:29.83,0:16:33.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of his upbringing, religion, \Nadopted home and nationality.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:34.61,0:16:37.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As there were eastern cartoonists \Nstanding with Charlie Hebdo,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:37.23,0:16:40.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there were Irani writers from the Muslim \Nworld that stood in defiance
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.46,0:16:44.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and defended Rushdie, some of whom \Nwere subsequently attacked.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:44.92,0:16:48.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In light of the recent attack \Nin Garland, Texas,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:48.43,0:16:51.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd like to share the prophetic words \Nof Norman Mailer,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:51.38,0:16:53.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from over two decades ago:
Dialogue: 0,0:16:53.50,0:16:56.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"In this week of turmoil we can now \Nenvision a fearful time in the future
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.73,0:16:59.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when fundamentalist groups in America,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:59.05,0:17:02.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stealing their page \Nfrom this international episode
Dialogue: 0,0:17:02.52,0:17:05.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will know how to apply the same methods
Dialogue: 0,0:17:05.37,0:17:07.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to American writers and bookstores.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:07.62,0:17:10.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If they succeed it will be due to the fact \Nthat we never found
Dialogue: 0,0:17:10.80,0:17:14.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an honest resistance to the terrorization \Nof Salman Rushdie."
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.37,0:17:20.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where in 1989 and 2005 authors \Nand cartoonists considered
Dialogue: 0,0:17:20.86,0:17:22.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a vague possibility of retaliation,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:22.88,0:17:25.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it has now metastatized \Nto an ever present threat;
Dialogue: 0,0:17:25.88,0:17:29.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like clockwork the violence \Nintensifies and repeats.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:30.51,0:17:33.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The cowardly response \Nin the intervening decade
Dialogue: 0,0:17:33.19,0:17:37.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has also been repeated time and time \Nagain, everytime emboldening the voices
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.85,0:17:40.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,calling for the curtailment of free speech.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:40.70,0:17:44.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Rushdie fatwa was the first battle, \Na battle in which we surrendered,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:44.47,0:17:47.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and continue to pay the price \Nfor that appeasement today.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:49.24,0:17:54.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So why is it so difficult for many \Non the Left to criticize Islam?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:54.18,0:17:55.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why do they shy away from it?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:56.24,0:18:00.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I believe that the primary reason is that \Nmany are simply incapable of separating
Dialogue: 0,0:18:00.53,0:18:03.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the criticism of an idea with the hate \Ndirected towards a people,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:03.64,0:18:05.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and immediately call the first "racism".
Dialogue: 0,0:18:06.89,0:18:09.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That idea should not \Nbe entertained for very long,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:09.60,0:18:12.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as if there can be no valid reasons \Nto critique an ideology
Dialogue: 0,0:18:12.82,0:18:15.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rooted in seventh-century \Npatriarchal norms
Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.50,0:18:20.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,except for hatred toward the very people \Nimprisoned by those ideologies.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:21.61,0:18:24.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are people who use the phrase "Islamophobia"
Dialogue: 0,0:18:24.60,0:18:28.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both to mean criticism of the people \Nand of the religion.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:28.97,0:18:30.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know that many Muslims do this,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:30.54,0:18:33.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is an easy way of stopping others \Nfrom criticizing their religion,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:33.26,0:18:36.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I believe that many in the West \Nuse this word
Dialogue: 0,0:18:36.56,0:18:39.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they haven't quite thought \Nof why it might be harmful.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.49,0:18:41.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Islamophobia is a meaningless term.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:41.79,0:18:46.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It serves to confuse and to muddle two \Nvery different forms of intolerance,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:46.80,0:18:48.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,based on two very different reasons,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:48.67,0:18:51.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,towards which there should be \Ntwo very different reactions.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:52.53,0:18:54.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sometimes it is claimed \Nthat the critique of religion
Dialogue: 0,0:18:54.92,0:18:57.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is critique of the identity \Nof the believer,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:57.51,0:18:58.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and is therefore bigotry.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:59.34,0:19:02.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This person's identity happens \Nto be based on ideology,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:02.71,0:19:04.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so if you criticize their ideology,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:04.75,0:19:07.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you are necessarily generating \Nhate towards that person.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:08.28,0:19:10.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I wonder what would happen
Dialogue: 0,0:19:10.07,0:19:12.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if we applied this type of thinking \Nto everything?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:12.73,0:19:16.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What if New Agers decided that criticism \Nof New Age spiritual healing
Dialogue: 0,0:19:16.54,0:19:20.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was a form of hate against people \Nwho chose to identify that way?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:20.05,0:19:23.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What if Hindus decided \Ncriticism of the caste system
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.04,0:19:26.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was a deeply offensive form of racism \Nagainst Hindu people?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:27.24,0:19:29.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How much of that would retard reform?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:31.14,0:19:32.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is another version \Nof this argument
Dialogue: 0,0:19:32.57,0:19:35.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which claims that criticism \Nor ridicule of Islam
Dialogue: 0,0:19:35.24,0:19:38.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,feeds into the bigotry \Nby the far-right
Dialogue: 0,0:19:38.52,0:19:40.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and therefore causes harm,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:41.12,0:19:43.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I want everyone to know that \Nthe argument is almost never
Dialogue: 0,0:19:43.81,0:19:47.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that Islam doesn't deserve the critique \Nor ridicule as a religion,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.39,0:19:52.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that it is harmful to voice this \Nfor the damage it would do.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:53.14,0:19:56.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now one of the writers that opposed the \Naward for Charlie Hebdo claimed that,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:56.91,0:20:00.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,quote, the narrative \Nof the Charlie Hebdo murders
Dialogue: 0,0:20:00.66,0:20:03.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-- the narrative of the \NCharlie Hebdo murders --
Dialogue: 0,0:20:03.80,0:20:07.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,white Europeans killed in their offices \Nby Muslim extremists
Dialogue: 0,0:20:07.50,0:20:10.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is one that feeds neatly \Ninto the cultural prejudices
Dialogue: 0,0:20:10.64,0:20:12.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that have allowed our governments
Dialogue: 0,0:20:12.14,0:20:15.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make so many disastrous \Nmistakes in the Middle East
Dialogue: 0,0:20:16.32,0:20:19.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-- the narrative of the Charlie Hebdo murders!
Dialogue: 0,0:20:19.48,0:20:22.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I read that statement and I realized that \Nfor some writers
Dialogue: 0,0:20:22.30,0:20:25.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the problem wasn't just \Nthat the cartoons were offensive,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:25.50,0:20:30.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was that the reaction of Muslims \Nto the cartoons fed into
Dialogue: 0,0:20:30.07,0:20:31.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a stereotypical Muslim trope,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:31.86,0:20:35.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a reaction that was very \Ninconvenient for a group
Dialogue: 0,0:20:35.18,0:20:38.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying their best to paint \Na picture of a peaceful Islam,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:38.38,0:20:40.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,despite mounting evidence to the contrary.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:41.52,0:20:44.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is quite clear that allegiances here \Naren't to the truth,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:45.43,0:20:49.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instead the aim is to selectively hide \Ninconvenient truths,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:49.66,0:20:52.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,truths that are deemed to be harmful, \Nshould they ever be acknowledged.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:53.83,0:20:58.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I assume the fear is that we do not want\Nto give support to actual bigoted people.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:58.90,0:21:02.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyone who watches Fox knows \Nhow they use fear-mongering tactics
Dialogue: 0,0:21:02.50,0:21:04.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to promote xenophobia.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:05.14,0:21:08.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the liberation of a billion and a half\NMuslims in the world,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:08.85,0:21:10.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Muslims who are suffering \Nunder the yoke
Dialogue: 0,0:21:10.83,0:21:13.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of an ever-present theological authority,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:13.80,0:21:15.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should be at the forefront of our minds.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:16.45,0:21:19.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As has been repeated hundreds of times \Nby critics like myself,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:19.67,0:21:23.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the primary victims of Islamism \Nare Muslims,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.45,0:21:26.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be it in terms of terrorism, violence, \Nmisogyny,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:26.89,0:21:31.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,freedom of expression and religion, \Nand economic decline.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:31.31,0:21:35.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yet bizarrely, to some, these concerns \Nare secondary still
Dialogue: 0,0:21:35.57,0:21:37.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to not presenting offense.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:38.93,0:21:41.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Still there are others who believe that \Nthose in the West,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.52,0:21:44.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that people in the West have \Nno right to speak about
Dialogue: 0,0:21:44.42,0:21:46.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,problems of "brown cultures"
Dialogue: 0,0:21:46.10,0:21:49.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,due to the legacy of colonialism \Nand other forms of violence
Dialogue: 0,0:21:49.28,0:21:51.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the West has cast upon the East.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:51.80,0:21:55.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a strange argument because \Nit ignores the history of the world,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:55.73,0:22:00.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a history in which various nations, Muslims and non-Muslims,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:00.37,0:22:03.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have succumbed to the ebb-and-flow \Nof conquest, repeatedly,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:03.69,0:22:05.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for all of recorded history.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:06.02,0:22:10.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Many Islamic countries in fact had \Nhorrific laws before colonialism.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:10.61,0:22:13.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Two of the epicenters of Islamic thought, \NIran for Shia Islam,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:13.98,0:22:18.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Saudi Arabia for Sunni Islam, \Nresisted colonialism.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:20.71,0:22:21.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-- Excuse me --
Dialogue: 0,0:22:22.33,0:22:25.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, Saudi Arabia \Nwas founded in 1744
Dialogue: 0,0:22:25.62,0:22:27.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as an extremist state,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:27.00,0:22:30.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the first iteration of which was \Ndestroyed by the Ottomans,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:30.16,0:22:32.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,due to their religious fanaticism.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:32.78,0:22:35.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first Saudis in fact attacked \Nand desecrated
Dialogue: 0,0:22:35.65,0:22:38.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some of the most holy Muslim sites \Nand were stopped
Dialogue: 0,0:22:38.71,0:22:41.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not by intervention of the West \Nbut by other Muslims
Dialogue: 0,0:22:41.27,0:22:43.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that viewed them as dangerous fanatics.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:43.66,0:22:46.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was then no \NAmerican imperialism,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:46.25,0:22:48.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no frame of wars against other Muslims,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:48.20,0:22:51.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and yet, fundamentalist Wahabbis \Nexisted,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:51.24,0:22:53.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and were attacking other Muslims,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:53.10,0:22:56.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very much the same way \Nthat ISIS attacks them today.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:56.80,0:22:58.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Reform is impossible
Dialogue: 0,0:22:58.72,0:23:01.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you constantly shift \Nthe conversation away
Dialogue: 0,0:23:01.58,0:23:05.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from Islamic fundamentalism, and back \Nto western violence and imperialism.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:07.08,0:23:09.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But don't get me wrong. \NIt is important to discuss this,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:09.66,0:23:12.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is important to discuss imperialism \Nand the harm that it caused.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:12.73,0:23:16.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But violence in the name of Islam \Nhas terrorized the Middle East
Dialogue: 0,0:23:16.30,0:23:18.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ever since its inception, \Nand it is important
Dialogue: 0,0:23:18.67,0:23:20.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we don't derail this conversation.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:20.80,0:23:26.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The moral paralysis out of fear of the \Nright, out of fear of furthering bigotry,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:26.98,0:23:30.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of shame of prior crimes committed \Nby other white people
Dialogue: 0,0:23:30.66,0:23:34.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should not trump all considerations.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:34.75,0:23:37.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I read articles of why Muslims \Nshould not be ridiculed
Dialogue: 0,0:23:37.14,0:23:42.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I get a sense of condescension, a sense \Nthat there are those who believe
Dialogue: 0,0:23:42.55,0:23:46.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the most essential trait of \Nbrown people is their religion,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:46.07,0:23:48.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a defining feature in fact, \Nand due to this
Dialogue: 0,0:23:48.90,0:23:51.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they presume that we won't reform \Nor we can't,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:52.23,0:23:55.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that religion is something \Ninherent to who we are
Dialogue: 0,0:23:55.45,0:23:57.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that it won't respond \Nto pressure, to change
Dialogue: 0,0:23:57.69,0:24:00.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the way Christianity responded \Nto pressure by secularists.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:01.27,0:24:04.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While they believe themselves \Nto be supporting tolerance,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:04.62,0:24:08.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what they are really supporting is \Nthe religious right of the East,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:08.64,0:24:12.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not just any religious right, not the \Nreligious right that we have here,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:12.34,0:24:14.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's a religious right the West \Nhasn't seen for centuries.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:15.23,0:24:20.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To me, someone who opposes the most \Nfoundational liberal principle,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:20.51,0:24:21.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the freedom of expression,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:21.96,0:24:26.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in order to protect the sensibilities \Nof this Islamist religious right
Dialogue: 0,0:24:26.26,0:24:27.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a liberal only in name.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:28.57,0:24:32.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, what kind of person holds two \Ndifferent groups of people accountable
Dialogue: 0,0:24:32.93,0:24:36.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to two different standards of \Nacceptable behavior but a bigot?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:37.14,0:24:39.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Islam, like all patriarchal religions,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:39.38,0:24:43.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a tool used to justify abuse \Nof women and minorities.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.56,0:24:46.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Does our concept of tolerance extend \Ntowards tolerance
Dialogue: 0,0:24:46.72,0:24:49.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of systematic subjugation \Nof women and minorities?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:50.43,0:24:53.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What else can excusing abuse made \Nin the name of tolerance be called
Dialogue: 0,0:24:53.78,0:24:57.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other than a benevolent, \Nself-serving form of bigotry?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:59.05,0:25:01.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No matter how seemingly \Ncompassionate the motivations,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:01.56,0:25:04.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we must not hesitate in being honest
Dialogue: 0,0:25:04.10,0:25:08.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in calling out our allies for their \Nhypocrisy and their illiberal mores.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:10.01,0:25:13.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sometimes I feel as if people \Nview secularism and free-thinking
Dialogue: 0,0:25:13.72,0:25:17.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be concepts owned by the West, \Nsomething inherently Western.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:18.40,0:25:21.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To push secularism and free thought \Nto Muslims then
Dialogue: 0,0:25:21.47,0:25:23.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to push a Western identity onto them.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:24.52,0:25:26.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is no more than ignorance of history
Dialogue: 0,0:25:26.60,0:25:30.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to feel that Enlightenment ideals can \Nonly be shared by this civilization,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:30.77,0:25:33.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rather than a progression \Nof all of humanity.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:34.15,0:25:35.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Indeed throughout history
Dialogue: 0,0:25:35.45,0:25:38.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there have been champions \Nof these very same ideals,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:38.14,0:25:41.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there have been free-thinkers \Nin every culture in the world
Dialogue: 0,0:25:41.30,0:25:42.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that have bled for these ideals.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:43.64,0:25:46.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There have been countless free-thinkers \Nthat challenged faith,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:46.19,0:25:51.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that tried but sadly failed to interpret \Nscripture in a less misogynist way,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:51.78,0:25:54.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even in patriarchal Islamic societies.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:54.82,0:25:57.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example, \Nthe seventeenth century had
Dialogue: 0,0:25:57.11,0:26:00.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a crown prince of the Mughal dynasty, \NDara Shikoh,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:00.14,0:26:04.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who was committed to rights of all \Nreligions, Hindu, Sikh, Muslim alike,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:04.97,0:26:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working to bridge the gaps between \Nthe leading lights of all faiths.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:09.73,0:26:12.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As you may anticipate, \Nthis was not to last,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:12.27,0:26:14.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Dara was murdered by his own brother,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:14.19,0:26:19.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,claiming that Dara's tolerance \Nwas a sign of his apostasy,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:19.33,0:26:23.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a brother that is now revered in Muslim \Ncircles as being a guardian of the faith.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:24.58,0:26:26.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Similarly, there have been women
Dialogue: 0,0:26:26.15,0:26:27.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that have led the charge \Nfor their own rights.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:28.40,0:26:32.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Exactly two hundred years ago, \NFatima Baraghani was born in Iran,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:32.54,0:26:37.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an extremely intelligent woman, who as \Nper custom was married young,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:37.09,0:26:39.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and wasn't allowed to further \Npursue her education.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:40.77,0:26:44.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She was attracted to a radical movement \Nbrewing in the country,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:44.31,0:26:46.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which espoused equality of the genders.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:47.06,0:26:51.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She joined and rose to be one \Nof the leading lights of that movement.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:52.72,0:26:55.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To symbolize a break from Shariah, \Nat one gathering,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:55.75,0:26:59.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she took off her traditional veil \Nin front of an assemblage of men
Dialogue: 0,0:26:59.48,0:27:01.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and brandished instead a sword.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:02.88,0:27:06.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now this sight caused such a shock \Namong the crowd,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:06.15,0:27:09.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that many grown men screamed aloud.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:10.04,0:27:12.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One man cut his own throat in horror,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:12.87,0:27:16.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fleeing the scene as blood poured \Nfrom his neck. {Laughter}
Dialogue: 0,0:27:19.04,0:27:22.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But she did not enjoy freedom or live \Nlong after this incident.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:24.22,0:27:28.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The tragedy of the Eastern past isn't \Nthat we haven't given birth to reformers
Dialogue: 0,0:27:28.27,0:27:32.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that the violence of our oppressors \Nhas eliminated us, time and again.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:32.99,0:27:35.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even in modern times, \None Somali author,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:35.78,0:27:39.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Abdisaid Abdi Ismail, wrote a book\Nwhere he audaciously argued
Dialogue: 0,0:27:39.83,0:27:44.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that Islam doesn't actually call \Nfor a death penalty for apostasy.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:44.45,0:27:47.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was rewarded for his efforts by \Nhaving his life threatened,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:47.54,0:27:49.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and calls for his book to be burned.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:50.77,0:27:52.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A British reformist, Maajid Nawaz,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:52.77,0:27:56.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has had fatwas issued \Ncalling for his death
Dialogue: 0,0:27:56.01,0:27:58.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for simply saying on a tweet
Dialogue: 0,0:27:58.58,0:28:01.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that a cartoon of Muhammad \Ndoesn't personally offend him.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:02.08,0:28:05.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The religious right has been murdering \Nreformers for centuries,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:05.38,0:28:07.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we are still here, \Nfighting for our future,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:07.92,0:28:11.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the same fight that the West has had \Nmuch greater success in.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:11.97,0:28:16.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is strange that the very same people, \Nwho wish to tamp down on the power
Dialogue: 0,0:28:16.16,0:28:20.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Christian right and use \Nthe advances that the West has had,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:20.76,0:28:23.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to insist that we must be defined \Nby our religious right.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:24.64,0:28:26.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let us assume, for the sake of argument,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:26.38,0:28:30.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we can all concede the idea that \NIslam, as a religion, needs reform,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:30.48,0:28:34.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or at the very least, Muslim communities \Ndo, both in the West and abroad,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:34.14,0:28:36.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in the way that they choose \Nto practice their faith.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:37.43,0:28:40.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I happen to believe this. \NAll the data we have corroborates this.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:41.60,0:28:43.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a large amount of evidence
Dialogue: 0,0:28:43.02,0:28:46.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which clearly demonstrates \Nrampant misogyny,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:46.06,0:28:49.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bad attitudes towards homosexuals \Nand apostasy within the Muslim world,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:49.68,0:28:52.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,supported by the law and widely \Naccepted by the people.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:54.16,0:28:58.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In an effort to draw attention away \Nfrom the role of religion in all this,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:58.30,0:29:04.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some have chosen to instead use \Nexcuses by a variety of reasons,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:04.35,0:29:05.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,none of which make sense,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:05.81,0:29:09.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because Muslim countries share \Nalmost nothing between them all,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:09.08,0:29:10.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,except the predominant religion:
Dialogue: 0,0:29:11.16,0:29:15.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not socio-economic status, \Nnot education or literacy levels, not GDP,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:15.89,0:29:20.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not cultural background or history, \Nnot race or ethnicity, not language,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:20.42,0:29:23.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not political system, \Nnot the history of Western colonization.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:23.80,0:29:26.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What they do share is theology.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:27.27,0:29:31.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Obviously Islam isn't the root of \Nall evil, but it is an important factor.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:31.55,0:29:34.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we have here is a right wing \Nin the West who believes
Dialogue: 0,0:29:34.25,0:29:36.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that Islam personifies evil
Dialogue: 0,0:29:36.05,0:29:40.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a Left which refuses to even \Nlook into it as a source of harm.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:41.05,0:29:44.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The question then becomes, \Nhow do we achieve reform
Dialogue: 0,0:29:44.25,0:29:47.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without actually mentioning \Nany problems in Islam?
Dialogue: 0,0:29:47.74,0:29:50.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do we achieve progress \Nwhile shying away
Dialogue: 0,0:29:50.09,0:29:54.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from one of the foundational aspects \Nof how harmful practices are justified?
Dialogue: 0,0:29:55.71,0:29:58.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Most cultures are responsive \Nto selective pressure,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:58.79,0:30:01.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and by insisting that no pressure \Nbe applied,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:01.20,0:30:03.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we are acting as a brake on any progress.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:04.25,0:30:06.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have plenty of evidence \Nthat a push for secularism
Dialogue: 0,0:30:06.90,0:30:10.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or a presence within secular cultures \Ncan change behavior,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:10.84,0:30:12.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and even the beliefs of Muslims.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:13.56,0:30:16.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example, if you compare \NMuslims living in the US
Dialogue: 0,0:30:16.51,0:30:20.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with Muslims in the Middle East, \Nyou will find across all metrics,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:20.56,0:30:25.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that their opinions are less extreme\Nand more in line with liberal values,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:25.10,0:30:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than those of the population \Nof their origin countries.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:29.00,0:30:32.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Many Muslims believe that \Ntheir religion is immutable,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:32.24,0:30:36.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that every word of which is true, \Nand reformers insult them
Dialogue: 0,0:30:36.42,0:30:37.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they demand change.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:38.22,0:30:41.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yet profound changes in the way \NMuslims practice their religion
Dialogue: 0,0:30:41.42,0:30:43.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have occurred in the past.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:43.56,0:30:47.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Many Muslim countries practiced \Nslavery up until the twentieth century,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:47.84,0:30:51.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with some countries abolishing slavery \Nas recently as 1981,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:52.05,0:30:55.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,citing religious sanction of the practice \Nas a justification.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:55.96,0:31:00.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Saudi Arabia's slave population \Nwas estimated at 300,000
Dialogue: 0,0:31:00.69,0:31:03.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a scant 50 years ago,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:03.62,0:31:06.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it was international pressure \Nthat forced abolition.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:08.13,0:31:11.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Under pressure from the \NBritish Empire to abolish slavery
Dialogue: 0,0:31:11.34,0:31:12.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a little over a century ago,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:12.50,0:31:16.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Sultan of Morocco cited \Nthe inerrancy of the Quran
Dialogue: 0,0:31:16.23,0:31:18.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make the case for the divine \Nsanction of slavery.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:19.37,0:31:22.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Later the chief minister of Morocco, \NMuhammad Idris,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:22.06,0:31:25.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wrote in response to anti-slavery \Nefforts, that
Dialogue: 0,0:31:25.20,0:31:28.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"we do not interfere in religious \Nprinciples which you profess,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:28.88,0:31:31.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,likewise you should not interfere \Nin our religion".
Dialogue: 0,0:31:32.36,0:31:36.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the face of Ottoman unwillingness \Nto condemn the status of slaves
Dialogue: 0,0:31:36.04,0:31:41.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as enshrined in Shariah, \Na British statesman sarcastically stated,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:41.80,0:31:44.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that one might well ask the Sultan \Nto become a Christian.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:45.87,0:31:50.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yet today, most if not all Muslims \Nare repulsed by the idea of slaves.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:51.78,0:31:55.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Did they abandon the Quran which \Nseemed to clearly condone slavery
Dialogue: 0,0:31:55.61,0:31:57.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a mere century ago?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:57.14,0:31:59.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or were we able to shift \Nmainstream consensus
Dialogue: 0,0:31:59.59,0:32:01.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by standing up for our moral principles?
Dialogue: 0,0:32:02.16,0:32:03.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wonder what would have happened
Dialogue: 0,0:32:03.69,0:32:07.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if the benevolent bigots of the West, \Nof the Left today,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:07.32,0:32:10.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who feel that it is more important \Nto respect a culture
Dialogue: 0,0:32:10.15,0:32:13.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the sake of respecting a culture \Nhad existed back then.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:14.23,0:32:16.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How many millions would be \Nliving in chains today?
Dialogue: 0,0:32:17.80,0:32:21.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is another common narrative, \Nof the West as oppressors,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:21.69,0:32:24.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how racism here feeds \Ninto the oppression of a minority.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:24.93,0:32:28.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Champions of Islam have gone \Non record using it as a cudgel
Dialogue: 0,0:32:28.26,0:32:31.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to beat against the back of progress.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:32.22,0:32:35.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We need to be aware that \Nthe victim versus the oppressor dynamic
Dialogue: 0,0:32:35.81,0:32:38.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,isn't set in stone the way some people \Nwould have you believe.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:39.23,0:32:42.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One can be a victim in one context \Nand an oppressor in another.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:43.51,0:32:46.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A Muslim man may deal with racism \Nat work, real racism,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:46.94,0:32:51.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,may see career setbacks, \Nand goes home and beats his hijabi wife
Dialogue: 0,0:32:51.64,0:32:54.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because he was raised \Nin a misogynistic tradition,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:54.28,0:32:57.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using Quran's verse as justification.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:58.11,0:32:59.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Should we not criticize his behavior
Dialogue: 0,0:32:59.82,0:33:02.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of his victimization \Nin one aspect?
Dialogue: 0,0:33:03.28,0:33:07.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,An imam may be an anti-Semite, \Na homophobe, he may be indoctrinating
Dialogue: 0,0:33:07.100,0:33:11.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a generation of impressionable minds \Ninto his harmful ideas.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:11.53,0:33:14.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yet the same imam might also \Nbe a victim of bigotry
Dialogue: 0,0:33:14.73,0:33:16.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when he aims to launch a new mosque.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:16.68,0:33:20.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He may be the target of \Nlocal xenophobic attitudes.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:21.88,0:33:23.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In lieu of his sufferings, \Nshould we pretend
Dialogue: 0,0:33:23.93,0:33:27.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,his other despicable behaviors \Ndo not exist, or do not matter?
Dialogue: 0,0:33:28.75,0:33:30.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Are we to sacrifice one for the other?
Dialogue: 0,0:33:31.35,0:33:34.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Instead, can we not stand \Nagainst all oppressions,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:34.02,0:33:37.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stand for the equal rights of others, \Nwhile simultaneously working
Dialogue: 0,0:33:37.65,0:33:40.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against bigoted narratives \Nwithin religion?
Dialogue: 0,0:33:40.99,0:33:42.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of my Ex-Muslim colleagues,\NHiba Krisht,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:42.61,0:33:45.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,beautifully summed up \Nthe same sentiments,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:45.22,0:33:50.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when she was talking about \Nthe misogynistic nature of the hijab,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:51.12,0:33:55.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,quote, feminism is defending \Nwomen, Muslim women,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:55.32,0:33:59.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who wear the hijab for whatever reason,\Nagainst shaming or attack.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:59.86,0:34:05.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Feminism is not categorically \Ndenying that the hijab can be coercive,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:05.77,0:34:10.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,body-shaming, slut-shaming, restrictive \Nor psychologically crippling.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:11.45,0:34:14.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We cannot avoid reality \Nbecause we are afraid
Dialogue: 0,0:34:14.46,0:34:17.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the consequences \Nof acknowledging facts.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:17.02,0:34:21.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it ethical to avoid educating our \Nchildren about Darwinian evolution
Dialogue: 0,0:34:21.66,0:34:24.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,simply because it has fed \Ninto Social Darwinism in the past?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:25.63,0:34:28.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our silence about uncomfortable truths \Nsimply underscores
Dialogue: 0,0:34:28.96,0:34:33.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the cost of our inaction as \Nthe consequences loom ever larger.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:33.69,0:34:37.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are paralyzed by our own \Ninsecurities, by our fear
Dialogue: 0,0:34:37.07,0:34:40.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the truth will empower \Nthe worst of us, rather than set us free.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:42.44,0:34:44.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have those on the Islamic far right
Dialogue: 0,0:34:44.65,0:34:47.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who say that there is no room \Nfor reform in Islam,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:47.42,0:34:49.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because Islam is, \Nand always has been perfect.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:49.94,0:34:53.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have their counterparts \Nfrom the far right in the West,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:53.29,0:34:56.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who coincidentally also view Islam \Nas beyond reform,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:56.37,0:34:57.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but for different reasons,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:57.66,0:35:00.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as something that is irredeemably \Nand permanently evil.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:00.90,0:35:03.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Between those two extremes, \Nwe have the average Muslim,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:03.100,0:35:07.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who is forced to choose \Nbetween the devil he knows,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:07.61,0:35:11.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Islamic dominance and supremacy, over \Nthe devil he doesn't, Western bigotry.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:12.31,0:35:14.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The liberal Left needs to present \Na different path,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:14.100,0:35:17.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not acquiesce to either form \Nof religious dominance.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:17.57,0:35:20.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is particularly important that those \Nwho stand for compassion,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:20.85,0:35:22.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that those who stand for human rights
Dialogue: 0,0:35:22.42,0:35:25.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and who recognize the harmful effects \Nof bigotry and discrimination
Dialogue: 0,0:35:25.67,0:35:29.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lead the charge against religious \Noppression no matter where it stems.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:30.86,0:35:33.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We know, not only is reform is possible,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:33.64,0:35:36.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it is ongoing against \Ninsurmountable odds,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:36.34,0:35:38.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it has champions that are \Nlaying their lives on the line
Dialogue: 0,0:35:38.91,0:35:39.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a better tomorrow.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:39.99,0:35:43.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We cannot and must not \Nlet the current situation endure
Dialogue: 0,0:35:43.49,0:35:46.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where reformists of Islam are standing \Nalone and vulnerable.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:48.09,0:35:51.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We must remember that there is \Nno inevitable march of progress,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:51.39,0:35:55.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no guarantee that tomorrow's world \Nwill be more just, more equal,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:55.11,0:35:59.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more rational, more tolerant \Nor reasonable.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:59.65,0:36:01.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Liberal rights without liberals \Nto champion them
Dialogue: 0,0:36:01.65,0:36:04.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are values without influence, \Nwith no defense.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:04.66,0:36:07.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let's not let our empathy \Nfor oppression of one group
Dialogue: 0,0:36:07.01,0:36:09.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,excuse their oppression of another.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:09.92,0:36:11.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you!
Dialogue: 0,0:36:11.06,0:36:34.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Standing applause)
Dialogue: 0,0:36:39.57,0:36:42.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Man) Well, OK, we have time \Nfor one question
Dialogue: 0,0:36:42.89,0:36:44.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then we'll have to take\Na 10-minute break
Dialogue: 0,0:36:44.72,0:36:48.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nobody likes a time-keeper,\Nnot speakers, not audience
Dialogue: 0,0:36:48.50,0:36:49.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm here to be hated.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:50.39,0:36:51.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Man 2) I'm glad I got here first.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:51.79,0:36:55.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First of all, thank you for your \Ncourage and bravery,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:55.60,0:36:56.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with what you're doing.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:56.81,0:37:03.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Haider) Thank you\N(Applause)
Dialogue: 0,0:37:03.34,0:37:05.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Man 2) You mentioned \Nthe word reform a lot
Dialogue: 0,0:37:05.49,0:37:10.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and others have spoken of Islam\Nas potentially being
Dialogue: 0,0:37:10.86,0:37:13.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the, I guess the beginning\Nof a reformation,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:14.09,0:37:16.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,similar to what happened\Nwith Catholicism.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:17.07,0:37:20.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I guess I have two questions\N-- sorry, two parts.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:21.27,0:37:24.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First, do you believe that we are seeing\Nthe beginning of that?
Dialogue: 0,0:37:24.65,0:37:30.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if so, do you, or should we have\Nany confidence
Dialogue: 0,0:37:30.01,0:37:32.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that that reformation, \Nif and when it comes in Islam,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:32.65,0:37:39.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will be any less bloody than what\Nhistorically, we experienced
Dialogue: 0,0:37:39.02,0:37:40.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the Catholic Reformation?
Dialogue: 0,0:37:41.90,0:37:45.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Haider) I've heard that comparison\Nquite a few times
Dialogue: 0,0:37:45.22,0:37:47.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I made it myself quite a few times.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:48.32,0:37:51.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I don't think they are exactly \Nthe same, in the sense that
Dialogue: 0,0:37:51.90,0:37:54.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this change will need to happen\Nat a different pace.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:54.50,0:37:56.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It'll need to be faster,\Nand it will be faster,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:56.66,0:38:03.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of, you know, social media\Nand the way that secular literature
Dialogue: 0,0:38:03.58,0:38:06.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and atheist literature has spread\Nacross the internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:06.06,0:38:10.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A lot of Ex-Muslims who join our group,\NThe Ex-Muslims of North America,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:10.49,0:38:15.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tell me that they started thinking about,\Nyou know, atheism or humanism
Dialogue: 0,0:38:15.16,0:38:19.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they first read something\NRichard Dawkins wrote, back in Egypt.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:19.48,0:38:23.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is possible now, so I really believe\Nthat it can be faster
Dialogue: 0,0:38:23.54,0:38:26.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think that it doesn't \Nhave to be as bloody
Dialogue: 0,0:38:26.37,0:38:30.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if the West is willing to stand up \Nfor the reformists,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:30.24,0:38:36.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the reformists in the East.\N(Applause)
Dialogue: 0,0:38:36.50,0:38:39.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Captions are based on Arun's transcript:\Nsee link in description)