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[Sarah Haider: Islam and[br]the Necessity of Liberal Critique]

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(Moderator) Hi everybody and welcome[br]to this next presentation entitled

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"Islam and the Necessity of Liberal Critique".

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I'd like to welcome Sarah Haider,[br]who is one of the co-founders

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of the Ex Muslims of North America group.

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So, please join me in welcoming Sarah.

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(Applause)

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(Sarah Haider) Hi Everyone,

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(Audience member) Hello

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I'm Sarah, and for the last two years [br]I have worked to build an organization

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for non-theist ex-Muslims,

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those who once [br]identified themselves with Islam.

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and now call themselves atheists, [br]agnostics or deists;

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and the organization is called [br]Ex-Muslims of North America.

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We are a relatively new organization, [br]but we are growing quickly

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and we now have communities [br]of ex-Muslims

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in over fifteen cities.

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As you can imagine, it is notoriously [br]difficult for ex-Muslims

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to find others like ourselves. [br]Trying to build friendships among people

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who are often under siege and deep [br]in the closet is incredibly difficult.

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In the first place, how do you even find [br]people who are often deliberately

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doing their best to stay undercover?

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As an organization we work to provide [br]ex-Muslims with much needed support,

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support to free themselves [br]from the shackles of religion

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and to be themselves, to learn about [br]each other's suffering,

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and above all else, endure.

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We are in a peculiar situation, [br]my colleagues and I,

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we are intimately connected with more [br]godless ex-Muslims

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than likely anyone else in the world.

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I have heard thousands of stories [br]from hundreds of people,

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about their experiences with Islam.

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Some lucky few were able to leave [br]the faith with little consequence,

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the relationships with their families [br]and friends and communities

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remained intact.

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But for most, this was not the case.

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Our journeys have seen [br]tremendous struggles.

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For some the cost was only social, [br]loss of friends and families.

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For others, they risked their health and [br]mental well-being

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from being locked into psychiatric wards [br]to enduring physical violence

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from all family members.

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Ex-Muslims, arguably [br]more than any other group,

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are deeply familiar with the problems [br]entrenched within Muslim communities

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and inherent within Islamic scriptures.

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As most of us happen to be both [br]people of color

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and first- or second- generation [br]immigrants,

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we are doubly affected,

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both by hatred and violence [br]from Muslims,

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but also bigotry and xenophobia[br]from the broader American public.

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Despite all this, my experience [br]over the last two years

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has made me wary of speaking up, [br]even to an audience such as this.

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I always expected feeling unwelcome [br]from Muslim audiences,

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but I did not anticipate [br]an equal amount of hostility

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from my allies on the Left.

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For example, [br]when I first published a piece,

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fact-checking Reza Aslan,[br]who is a prominent Muslim scholar,

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on his dismissal of [br]female genital mutilation

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as only an African problem, [br]not a Muslim one,

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I got many responses from people [br]unhappy with what I wrote,

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almost all of whom [br]questioned my motives

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rather than addressing my claims.

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To my surprise, most of my critics [br]were not Muslims.

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Rather they identified as liberals [br]and sometimes even atheists.

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Some darkly alluded to my "agenda" and [br]others claimed that as a former Muslim,

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there was no way I could be trusted [br]with fair criticism.

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Now remember, I published a fact-check.

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It seems to me that it would be easy [br]to verify my claims,

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fact-check the fact-check, so to speak.

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But instead, Muslims and some people [br]on the Left preferred instead

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to throw around suspicions [br]about my character and my intentions.

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Those who oppose [br]Christian authoritarianism

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will find that the broad majority [br]of liberals, religious or non-religious,

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side with them [br]and will ofter their support

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in the fight to push religious morals [br]out of our politics and public life.

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Even religious liberals [br]sometimes look upon

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the politically-charged religious right [br]with distaste

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and some work with secularists [br]to keep them out of our politics.

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The executive director for

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the Americans United for {Separation of} [br]Church and State, for example,

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is an ordained minister.

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Atheists and secularists [br]can feel secure in the knowledge

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that their allies on the liberal Left [br]will stand with them

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when their target is [br]the far-right Christians.

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It makes sense: liberals don't share [br]much, many common values

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with the religious right.

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But when the same scrutiny [br]is applied to Islam,

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you find that inexplicably some people [br]on the Left begin to align instead

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with the Islamic religious right.

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The consistent exception has been [br]the secular and atheist communities.

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When luminaries of disbelief movement [br]like Harris and Dawkins speak about

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the horrors of Christianity and write [br]books condemning it, they are cheered,

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their works lionized, their presence [br]sought at events and conferences.

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But when they turn [br]the same critical gaze

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towards the religion of my family,

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they are told to cease [br]such offensive talk,

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to refrain from criticizing [br]the same oppressive forces

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that they criticized in the past.

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There is an instinct to pigeon-hole [br]anyone

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who says something negative about [br]Islam, to broadly label them

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in such a way that nearly guarantees

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that most on the Left will ignore [br]what they have to say.

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The first method, I found, of people dismissing my claims, has been that

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since as a brown person I can't easily [br]be painted as a bigot,

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is that I must be pro-war

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or broadly support the far-right agenda [br]in some way.

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This is not true.

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Sometimes I am called an Uncle Tom [br]or a house Arab.

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Another term thrown around [br]at ex-Muslims

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and other brown critics of Islam

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is "native informants".

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This was my first time hearing this.

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I won't go into the many reasons why [br]this is an impressively disgusting thing

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to call someone, [br]with the vague implication

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that we are brainwashed in some way, [br]or are betraying our own kind.

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While it is somewhat understandable, [br]why someone like Myriam Francois,

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who is a white convert to Islam, why she [br]would refer to us as native informants,

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it is beyond my comprehension how [br]such a transparently racist term

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was used by the journalist [br]Max Blumenthal

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in his article condemning Ayaan Hirsi Ali

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to cast a shadow over [br]her role in this debate.

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I wonder if Blumenthal [br]would feel comfortable

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using similarly racist terms[br]against anti-clerical dissidents

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from African-American [br]or other minority communities.

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Bill Maher is someone [br]who has been painted

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by the Left and the Right as a bigot.

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Once on his show, Bill Maher [br]mentioned the high rates of support

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for the death penalty for the crime of [br]atheism in Muslim communities.

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In response, Dean Obeidallah,

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who is a comedian and author [br]and liberal Muslim,

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attempted to defend the Muslim [br]countries by pointing out errors

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in the statistics Maher used.

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Let me quote his piece on CNN.

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He says - "a 2013 Pew poll [br]actually found

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that only 64% of Egyptians supported this"

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- by this he means the death penalty - [br]"still alarmingly high, but not 90%"

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and only thirteen Muslim nations have [br]penalties for apostasy, while 34 do not".

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Can we realistically imagine something [br]like that being published

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if it was about any other minority, in [br]an honest effort to downplay the horror?

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What if it was "only 64% of Americans

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support the death penalty [br]for converts to Islam"

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- Muslims don't have it that bad -

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"only 64% of French citizens support the [br]death penalty for Algerian immigrants"

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or "only 64% of Americans support [br]the death penalty for homosexuality"?

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How bad is the situation, [br]how terrible the human rights abuses

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and how little the worth [br]of the life of a human being,

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when 64% is viewed [br]as a defensive statistic?

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If the situation was that a fully [br]one-third of western nations

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had legalized the murder of Muslims, [br]how appalled would we be?

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What would the Left's reaction be?

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As an ex-Muslim I am horrified that [br]something like this would be published

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on the web-site [br]of a major news organization

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and not a single voice [br]was raised in outrage.

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Why is my life worth less?

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Does my simply being raised [br]in an Islamic tradition

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grant the Islamic religious right [br]overt ownership over me and my body,

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grant them license to murder me [br]and my fellow atheists?

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The claim actually being made [br]by citing this statistic was that Maher

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was supposedly making too much of [br]a fuss of atheist persecution by Muslims.

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Now I do not wish to denigrate [br]the author, Dean Obeidallah,

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but to illustrate [br]the depth of the problem,

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that in trying to defend what he [br]perceived to be an injustice to Muslims,

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he did not even notice [br]the depravity of what he wrote.

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As a consequence an audience [br]on the Left now frightens me

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nearly as much as [br]an audience of Islamists does.

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I have had to think long and hard about [br]whether I want to give this talk today,

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to what extent I should mince my words,

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and what consequence [br]it would have on my work.

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It's not my intention to cause offense [br]but I firmly believe

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that there are things that need to be [br]said, elephants in the room

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that no one but some bigots on the [br]far right are willing to acknowledge.

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[br]We are all, I hope, familiar with what happened

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on January 7th at the offices [br]of Charlie Hebdo.

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Masked gunmen killed twelve people, [br]shouting Allahu Akbar!,

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later revealed to be two brothers, [br]French nationals of Algerian origin.

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There was global outrage and a large [br]show of solidarity for the cartoonists,

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which appeared to be the obviously [br]righteous things to do.

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Until of course the religious [br]began to speak up

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with claims of "provocation" [br]and hurt feelings.

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But that was to be expected, Islamists [br]have been saying that for years,

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and indeed, no religion really accepts [br]any form of ridicule

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- if they have a choice in the matter, that is say.

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However, what was more distressing to me,

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was the response from many [br]of my allies on the Left.

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Over and over I heard the claim that [br]Charlie Hebdo was somehow

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a racist publication, and while, [br]of course, of course,

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murder is always wrong [br]and should be condemned,

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it is nonetheless "understandable"

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that the gunmen would feel [br]provoked by the cartoons.

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Now, I don't know about you, but I don't [br]want to meet the man

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who "understands" why someone would [br]feel compelled to murder another man

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because he didn't like a cartoon [br]that he drew. (applause).

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It's important to realize that mocking [br]and critique are not that different

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in the eyes of the most religious people.

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There is no fair amount [br]of fair and friendly criticism

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that the very religious will accept if [br]they have the power to shut it down,

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as evidenced by the prohibition [br]on heretical speech

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in theocratic states throughout history.

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There is a curious [br]double-standard at play.

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When Muslim clerics and activists [br]that are known to be

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anti-Semites and homophobes [br]are welcomed on campuses,

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touring nationally, invited to give [br]lectures by Muslim student associations,

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while feminists like Asra Nomani, [br]who has been fighting

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for the equality of the sexes, [br]for the right of female entry

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to the priestly class, [br]is branded as a bigot

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by the same Muslim student organizations

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and the authorities [br]at universities like Duke

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succumb to this brazen attempt [br]to silence her.

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Similar patterns are repeated [br]across the Western world.

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Maryam Namazie, [br]who is an ex-Muslim activist,

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was dis-invited to speak at Trinity, [br]Ayaan Hirsi Ali at Brandeis.

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The British Students Union [br]now allies itself broadly

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with Islamist organizations such as CAGE.

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To quote Nick Cohen from his article [br]from the Guardian,

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"University managers are no better than [br]their teenage heresy hunters.

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They say they want to oppose [br]radical Islam in argument.

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The Lawyers' Secular Society [br]took them at their word.

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It tried to present an investigation [br]at the University of West London

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into Islamist groups that were [br]all over campuses,

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despite their record of advocating [br]Jew hatred, homophobia and misogyny.

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The university authorities [br]banned the secularists."

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Let me be clear. I don't think anyone,

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even bigots emerging from Muslim [br]communities or anywhere else,

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should be silenced.

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What I ask is that we stand up [br]for the right to speak of all,

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including those both [br]those who stand with us

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and those who call for the death [br]of our fellow dis-believers.

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Our society functions because [br]we believe that hurt feelings

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mean essentially nothing [br]in the eyes of our justice system.

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But of course it is claimed that [br]this is a special case,

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because these aren't just [br]personal hurt feelings,

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these are religious hurt feelings, [br]and not just any religion,

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but the religion of the underdog, [br]of the brown man.

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And the Left decided long ago [br]that the hurt feelings

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of the Christian religion mattered little, [br]and it was imperative

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that we disabuse the notion [br]that Christianity

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would ever feel safe from criticism [br]or even outright mockery.

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Indeed many of our greatest thinkers [br]have delighted in exercising this right.

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I want to quote Thomas Paine, from his [br]book, The Age of Reason:

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"Whenever we read the obscene stories, [br]the voluptuous debaucheries,

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the cruel and torturous executions, [br]the unrelenting vindictiveness,

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with which more than half [br]the Bible is filled,

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it would be more consistent that [br]we called it the word of a demon,

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than the word of God.

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It is a history of wickedness, that has [br]served to corrupt and brutalize mankind;

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and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, [br]as I detest everything that is cruel"

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I wonder if Paine had been murdered [br]for his outright contempt of Christianity,

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how different would the West look today?

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what message such a gruesome deed [br]would have sent?

0:14:24.135,0:14:26.420
how many people would it have silenced

0:14:26.420,0:14:28.412
with its promise of [br]more bloodshed to come

0:14:28.412,0:14:31.289
if they had the audacity [br]to repeat his crime?

0:14:32.277,0:14:37.144
Would that fear have silenced those who [br]insisted on the freedom of speech?

0:14:37.618,0:14:40.492
How would that have affected [br]the face of our nation?

0:14:40.492,0:14:44.279
Now I hope that you will reflect with me, [br]on the fact that

0:14:44.279,0:14:46.447
not only was he not murdered,

0:14:46.447,0:14:49.470
neither were his contemporaries [br]who mocked religion,

0:14:49.470,0:14:54.281
also even then three centuries ago,[br]I don't believe he contemplated the idea

0:14:54.281,0:14:56.441
that writing would actually [br]lead to his death.

0:14:56.935,0:14:59.046
And yet, in the twenty-first century,

0:14:59.046,0:15:02.566
this is the reality of those who speak out[br]against Islam in Muslim countries

0:15:02.566,0:15:04.703
and increasingly in Western ones.

0:15:05.962,0:15:09.228
It is not uncommon to hear from [br]commentators in various media outlets

0:15:09.228,0:15:12.746
that the victims of Charlie Hebdo had [br]somehow provoked others

0:15:12.746,0:15:16.117
with their offensive cartoons [br]into taking their lives.

0:15:16.689,0:15:22.051
The sentiment seems to be that [br]the cartoonists must to some degree

0:15:22.051,0:15:24.681
be held accountable for their own murders,

0:15:24.681,0:15:28.007
even as dozens of cartoonists [br]from the East drew panels

0:15:28.007,0:15:30.717
in support of their counterparts [br]in the West,

0:15:30.717,0:15:32.966
risking their own lives [br]for freedom of speech.

0:15:35.095,0:15:38.458
Two months ago, PEN, an organization [br]that has stood for free speech

0:15:38.458,0:15:42.620
for nearly a century, announced their [br]decision to honor

0:15:42.620,0:15:44.066
the magazine Charlie Hebdo

0:15:44.066,0:15:46.449
with the PEN [br]Freedom of Expression Courage Award.

0:15:46.908,0:15:49.980
Yet amongst those that were [br]members of PEN,

0:15:49.980,0:15:52.494
there were some that refused to stand [br]with Charlie Hebdo,

0:15:52.494,0:15:56.383
initially six table heads [br]and as of now, 204 writers.

0:15:57.533,0:16:00.441
I would like to remind everyone [br]that we've been here before.

0:16:00.952,0:16:04.040
When Salman Rushdie had a fatwa [br]calling for his death,

0:16:04.411,0:16:08.806
PEN America under Susan Sontag's [br]stewardship stood for him,

0:16:08.806,0:16:13.291
even while a significant percentage [br]of the intelligentsia cast him aside.

0:16:13.487,0:16:16.602
Figures as diverse as [br]the Archbishop of Canterbury

0:16:16.602,0:16:19.249
to multiple members [br]of the British Parliament,

0:16:19.249,0:16:25.144
one of whom condemned Rushdie as, [br]quote, an outstanding villain,

0:16:25.144,0:16:29.833
whose, quote, public life has been [br]a record of despicable acts of betrayal

0:16:29.833,0:16:33.702
of his upbringing, religion, [br]adopted home and nationality.

0:16:34.606,0:16:37.226
As there were eastern cartoonists [br]standing with Charlie Hebdo,

0:16:37.226,0:16:40.464
there were Irani writers from the Muslim [br]world that stood in defiance

0:16:40.464,0:16:44.108
and defended Rushdie, some of whom [br]were subsequently attacked.

0:16:44.917,0:16:48.432
In light of the recent attack [br]in Garland, Texas,

0:16:48.432,0:16:51.375
I'd like to share the prophetic words [br]of Norman Mailer,

0:16:51.375,0:16:53.501
from over two decades ago:

0:16:53.501,0:16:56.732
"In this week of turmoil we can now [br]envision a fearful time in the future

0:16:56.732,0:16:59.046
when fundamentalist groups in America,

0:16:59.046,0:17:02.521
stealing their page [br]from this international episode

0:17:02.521,0:17:05.366
will know how to apply the same methods

0:17:05.366,0:17:07.618
to American writers and bookstores.

0:17:07.618,0:17:10.796
If they succeed it will be due to the fact [br]that we never found

0:17:10.796,0:17:14.839
an honest resistance to the terrorization [br]of Salman Rushdie."

0:17:16.369,0:17:20.857
Where in 1989 and 2005 authors [br]and cartoonists considered

0:17:20.857,0:17:22.876
a vague possibility of retaliation,

0:17:22.876,0:17:25.876
it has now metastatized [br]to an ever present threat;

0:17:25.876,0:17:29.774
like clockwork the violence [br]intensifies and repeats.

0:17:30.509,0:17:33.188
The cowardly response [br]in the intervening decade

0:17:33.188,0:17:37.852
has also been repeated time and time [br]again, everytime emboldening the voices

0:17:37.852,0:17:40.129
calling for the curtailment of free speech.

0:17:40.700,0:17:44.466
The Rushdie fatwa was the first battle, [br]a battle in which we surrendered,

0:17:44.466,0:17:47.802
and continue to pay the price [br]for that appeasement today.

0:17:49.242,0:17:54.177
So why is it so difficult for many [br]on the Left to criticize Islam?

0:17:54.182,0:17:55.768
Why do they shy away from it?

0:17:56.236,0:18:00.527
I believe that the primary reason is that [br]many are simply incapable of separating

0:18:00.527,0:18:03.644
the criticism of an idea with the hate [br]directed towards a people,

0:18:03.644,0:18:05.860
and immediately call the first "racism".

0:18:06.890,0:18:09.596
That idea should not [br]be entertained for very long,

0:18:09.596,0:18:12.823
as if there can be no valid reasons [br]to critique an ideology

0:18:12.823,0:18:15.495
rooted in seventh-century [br]patriarchal norms

0:18:15.495,0:18:20.137
except for hatred toward the very people [br]imprisoned by those ideologies.

0:18:21.609,0:18:24.604
There are people who use the phrase "Islamophobia"

0:18:24.604,0:18:28.496
both to mean criticism of the people [br]and of the religion.

0:18:28.972,0:18:30.545
I know that many Muslims do this,

0:18:30.545,0:18:33.255
it is an easy way of stopping others [br]from criticizing their religion,

0:18:33.255,0:18:36.558
but I believe that many in the West [br]use this word

0:18:36.558,0:18:39.194
because they haven't quite thought [br]of why it might be harmful.

0:18:39.487,0:18:41.788
Islamophobia is a meaningless term.

0:18:41.788,0:18:46.801
It serves to confuse and to muddle two [br]very different forms of intolerance,

0:18:46.801,0:18:48.666
based on two very different reasons,

0:18:48.666,0:18:51.766
towards which there should be [br]two very different reactions.

0:18:52.532,0:18:54.919
Sometimes it is claimed [br]that the critique of religion

0:18:54.919,0:18:57.513
is critique of the identity [br]of the believer,

0:18:57.513,0:18:58.732
and is therefore bigotry.

0:18:59.339,0:19:02.710
This person's identity happens [br]to be based on ideology,

0:19:02.710,0:19:04.753
so if you criticize their ideology,

0:19:04.753,0:19:07.811
you are necessarily generating [br]hate towards that person.

0:19:08.279,0:19:10.066
But I wonder what would happen

0:19:10.066,0:19:12.273
if we applied this type of thinking [br]to everything?

0:19:12.726,0:19:16.537
What if New Agers decided that criticism [br]of New Age spiritual healing

0:19:16.537,0:19:20.050
was a form of hate against people [br]who chose to identify that way?

0:19:20.050,0:19:23.037
What if Hindus decided [br]criticism of the caste system

0:19:23.037,0:19:26.824
was a deeply offensive form of racism [br]against Hindu people?

0:19:27.243,0:19:29.677
How much of that would retard reform?

0:19:31.143,0:19:32.571
There is another version [br]of this argument

0:19:32.571,0:19:35.236
which claims that criticism [br]or ridicule of Islam

0:19:35.236,0:19:38.524
feeds into the bigotry [br]by the far-right

0:19:38.524,0:19:40.335
and therefore causes harm,

0:19:41.122,0:19:43.810
and I want everyone to know that [br]the argument is almost never

0:19:43.810,0:19:47.391
that Islam doesn't deserve the critique [br]or ridicule as a religion,

0:19:47.391,0:19:52.400
but that it is harmful to voice this [br]for the damage it would do.

0:19:53.143,0:19:56.913
Now one of the writers that opposed the [br]award for Charlie Hebdo claimed that,

0:19:56.913,0:20:00.657
quote, the narrative [br]of the Charlie Hebdo murders

0:20:00.660,0:20:03.804
-- the narrative of the [br]Charlie Hebdo murders --

0:20:03.804,0:20:07.497
white Europeans killed in their offices [br]by Muslim extremists

0:20:07.497,0:20:10.644
is one that feeds neatly [br]into the cultural prejudices

0:20:10.644,0:20:12.135
that have allowed our governments

0:20:12.135,0:20:15.177
to make so many disastrous [br]mistakes in the Middle East

0:20:16.317,0:20:19.287
-- the narrative of the Charlie Hebdo murders!

0:20:19.480,0:20:22.298
I read that statement and I realized that [br]for some writers

0:20:22.298,0:20:25.502
the problem wasn't just [br]that the cartoons were offensive,

0:20:25.502,0:20:30.071
it was that the reaction of Muslims [br]to the cartoons fed into

0:20:30.071,0:20:31.863
a stereotypical Muslim trope,

0:20:31.863,0:20:35.185
a reaction that was very [br]inconvenient for a group

0:20:35.185,0:20:38.105
trying their best to paint [br]a picture of a peaceful Islam,

0:20:38.383,0:20:40.510
despite mounting evidence to the contrary.

0:20:41.517,0:20:44.952
It is quite clear that allegiances here [br]aren't to the truth,

0:20:45.432,0:20:49.660
instead the aim is to selectively hide [br]inconvenient truths,

0:20:49.660,0:20:52.856
truths that are deemed to be harmful, [br]should they ever be acknowledged.

0:20:53.828,0:20:58.599
I assume the fear is that we do not want[br]to give support to actual bigoted people.

0:20:58.900,0:21:02.497
Anyone who watches Fox knows [br]how they use fear-mongering tactics

0:21:02.497,0:21:04.066
to promote xenophobia.

0:21:05.136,0:21:08.853
But the liberation of a billion and a half[br]Muslims in the world,

0:21:08.853,0:21:10.830
Muslims who are suffering [br]under the yoke

0:21:10.830,0:21:13.801
of an ever-present theological authority,

0:21:13.801,0:21:15.907
should be at the forefront of our minds.

0:21:16.453,0:21:19.673
As has been repeated hundreds of times [br]by critics like myself,

0:21:19.673,0:21:23.447
the primary victims of Islamism [br]are Muslims,

0:21:23.447,0:21:26.886
be it in terms of terrorism, violence, [br]misogyny,

0:21:26.886,0:21:31.306
freedom of expression and religion, [br]and economic decline.

0:21:31.306,0:21:35.566
Yet bizarrely, to some, these concerns [br]are secondary still

0:21:35.566,0:21:37.437
to not presenting offense.

0:21:38.926,0:21:41.523
Still there are others who believe that [br]those in the West,

0:21:41.523,0:21:44.424
that people in the West have [br]no right to speak about

0:21:44.424,0:21:46.105
problems of "brown cultures"

0:21:46.105,0:21:49.279
due to the legacy of colonialism [br]and other forms of violence

0:21:49.279,0:21:51.070
the West has cast upon the East.

0:21:51.795,0:21:55.732
This is a strange argument because [br]it ignores the history of the world,

0:21:55.732,0:22:00.367
a history in which various nations, Muslims and non-Muslims,

0:22:00.367,0:22:03.686
have succumbed to the ebb-and-flow [br]of conquest, repeatedly,

0:22:03.686,0:22:05.114
for all of recorded history.

0:22:06.022,0:22:10.073
Many Islamic countries in fact had [br]horrific laws before colonialism.

0:22:10.607,0:22:13.975
Two of the epicenters of Islamic thought, [br]Iran for Shia Islam,

0:22:13.975,0:22:18.712
and Saudi Arabia for Sunni Islam, [br]resisted colonialism.

0:22:20.712,0:22:21.742
-- Excuse me --

0:22:22.332,0:22:25.621
In fact, Saudi Arabia [br]was founded in 1744

0:22:25.621,0:22:27.004
as an extremist state,

0:22:27.004,0:22:30.156
the first iteration of which was [br]destroyed by the Ottomans,

0:22:30.156,0:22:32.344
due to their religious fanaticism.

0:22:32.782,0:22:35.652
The first Saudis in fact attacked [br]and desecrated

0:22:35.652,0:22:38.711
some of the most holy Muslim sites [br]and were stopped

0:22:38.711,0:22:41.274
not by intervention of the West [br]but by other Muslims

0:22:41.274,0:22:43.269
that viewed them as dangerous fanatics.

0:22:43.658,0:22:46.254
There was then no [br]American imperialism,

0:22:46.254,0:22:48.204
no frame of wars against other Muslims,

0:22:48.204,0:22:51.240
and yet, fundamentalist Wahabbis [br]existed,

0:22:51.240,0:22:53.104
and were attacking other Muslims,

0:22:53.104,0:22:56.193
very much the same way [br]that ISIS attacks them today.

0:22:56.805,0:22:58.721
Reform is impossible

0:22:58.721,0:23:01.578
when you constantly shift [br]the conversation away

0:23:01.578,0:23:05.959
from Islamic fundamentalism, and back [br]to western violence and imperialism.

0:23:07.077,0:23:09.657
But don't get me wrong. [br]It is important to discuss this,

0:23:09.657,0:23:12.729
it is important to discuss imperialism [br]and the harm that it caused.

0:23:12.729,0:23:16.298
But violence in the name of Islam [br]has terrorized the Middle East

0:23:16.298,0:23:18.666
ever since its inception, [br]and it is important

0:23:18.666,0:23:20.496
that we don't derail this conversation.

0:23:20.798,0:23:26.545
The moral paralysis out of fear of the [br]right, out of fear of furthering bigotry,

0:23:26.983,0:23:30.658
out of shame of prior crimes committed [br]by other white people

0:23:30.658,0:23:34.014
should not trump all considerations.

0:23:34.752,0:23:37.143
When I read articles of why Muslims [br]should not be ridiculed

0:23:37.143,0:23:42.546
I get a sense of condescension, a sense [br]that there are those who believe

0:23:42.546,0:23:46.071
that the most essential trait of [br]brown people is their religion,

0:23:46.071,0:23:48.899
a defining feature in fact, [br]and due to this

0:23:48.899,0:23:51.897
they presume that we won't reform [br]or we can't,

0:23:52.229,0:23:55.448
that religion is something [br]inherent to who we are

0:23:55.448,0:23:57.693
and that it won't respond [br]to pressure, to change

0:23:57.693,0:24:00.734
the way Christianity responded [br]to pressure by secularists.

0:24:01.274,0:24:04.625
While they believe themselves [br]to be supporting tolerance,

0:24:04.625,0:24:08.336
what they are really supporting is [br]the religious right of the East,

0:24:08.636,0:24:12.055
and not just any religious right, not the [br]religious right that we have here,

0:24:12.342,0:24:14.860
it's a religious right the West [br]hasn't seen for centuries.

0:24:15.229,0:24:20.508
To me, someone who opposes the most [br]foundational liberal principle,

0:24:20.508,0:24:21.965
the freedom of expression,

0:24:21.965,0:24:26.255
in order to protect the sensibilities [br]of this Islamist religious right

0:24:26.255,0:24:27.948
is a liberal only in name.

0:24:28.568,0:24:32.929
In fact, what kind of person holds two [br]different groups of people accountable

0:24:32.929,0:24:36.411
to two different standards of [br]acceptable behavior but a bigot?

0:24:37.144,0:24:39.383
Islam, like all patriarchal religions,

0:24:39.383,0:24:43.178
is a tool used to justify abuse [br]of women and minorities.

0:24:43.559,0:24:46.721
Does our concept of tolerance extend [br]towards tolerance

0:24:46.721,0:24:49.728
of systematic subjugation [br]of women and minorities?

0:24:50.430,0:24:53.781
What else can excusing abuse made [br]in the name of tolerance be called

0:24:53.781,0:24:57.371
other than a benevolent, [br]self-serving form of bigotry?

0:24:59.052,0:25:01.565
No matter how seemingly [br]compassionate the motivations,

0:25:01.565,0:25:04.101
we must not hesitate in being honest

0:25:04.101,0:25:08.449
in calling out our allies for their [br]hypocrisy and their illiberal mores.

0:25:10.013,0:25:13.725
Sometimes I feel as if people [br]view secularism and free-thinking

0:25:13.725,0:25:17.669
to be concepts owned by the West, [br]something inherently Western.

0:25:18.401,0:25:21.468
To push secularism and free thought [br]to Muslims then

0:25:21.468,0:25:23.830
is to push a Western identity onto them.

0:25:24.524,0:25:26.601
It is no more than ignorance of history

0:25:26.601,0:25:30.767
to feel that Enlightenment ideals can [br]only be shared by this civilization,

0:25:30.767,0:25:33.636
rather than a progression [br]of all of humanity.

0:25:34.151,0:25:35.448
Indeed throughout history

0:25:35.448,0:25:38.141
there have been champions [br]of these very same ideals,

0:25:38.141,0:25:41.302
there have been free-thinkers [br]in every culture in the world

0:25:41.302,0:25:42.812
that have bled for these ideals.

0:25:43.640,0:25:46.192
There have been countless free-thinkers [br]that challenged faith,

0:25:46.192,0:25:51.775
that tried but sadly failed to interpret [br]scripture in a less misogynist way,

0:25:51.775,0:25:54.186
even in patriarchal Islamic societies.

0:25:54.824,0:25:57.111
For example, [br]the seventeenth century had

0:25:57.111,0:26:00.140
a crown prince of the Mughal dynasty, [br]Dara Shikoh,

0:26:00.140,0:26:04.969
who was committed to rights of all [br]religions, Hindu, Sikh, Muslim alike,

0:26:04.969,0:26:09.004
working to bridge the gaps between [br]the leading lights of all faiths.

0:26:09.728,0:26:12.270
As you may anticipate, [br]this was not to last,

0:26:12.270,0:26:14.192
Dara was murdered by his own brother,

0:26:14.192,0:26:19.330
claiming that Dara's tolerance [br]was a sign of his apostasy,

0:26:19.330,0:26:23.850
a brother that is now revered in Muslim [br]circles as being a guardian of the faith.

0:26:24.577,0:26:26.149
Similarly, there have been women

0:26:26.149,0:26:27.786
that have led the charge [br]for their own rights.

0:26:28.395,0:26:32.197
Exactly two hundred years ago, [br]Fatima Baraghani was born in Iran,

0:26:32.544,0:26:37.089
an extremely intelligent woman, who as [br]per custom was married young,

0:26:37.089,0:26:39.678
and wasn't allowed to further [br]pursue her education.

0:26:40.769,0:26:44.310
She was attracted to a radical movement [br]brewing in the country,

0:26:44.310,0:26:46.738
which espoused equality of the genders.

0:26:47.061,0:26:51.541
She joined and rose to be one [br]of the leading lights of that movement.

0:26:52.715,0:26:55.753
To symbolize a break from Shariah, [br]at one gathering,

0:26:55.753,0:26:59.479
she took off her traditional veil [br]in front of an assemblage of men

0:26:59.479,0:27:01.662
and brandished instead a sword.

0:27:02.882,0:27:06.153
Now this sight caused such a shock [br]among the crowd,

0:27:06.153,0:27:09.467
that many grown men screamed aloud.

0:27:10.040,0:27:12.866
One man cut his own throat in horror,

0:27:12.866,0:27:16.833
fleeing the scene as blood poured [br]from his neck. {Laughter}

0:27:19.043,0:27:22.444
But she did not enjoy freedom or live [br]long after this incident.

0:27:24.222,0:27:28.271
The tragedy of the Eastern past isn't [br]that we haven't given birth to reformers

0:27:28.271,0:27:32.417
but that the violence of our oppressors [br]has eliminated us, time and again.

0:27:32.990,0:27:35.775
Even in modern times, [br]one Somali author,

0:27:35.775,0:27:39.828
Abdisaid Abdi Ismail, wrote a book[br]where he audaciously argued

0:27:39.828,0:27:44.449
that Islam doesn't actually call [br]for a death penalty for apostasy.

0:27:44.449,0:27:47.535
He was rewarded for his efforts by [br]having his life threatened,

0:27:47.535,0:27:49.569
and calls for his book to be burned.

0:27:50.767,0:27:52.773
A British reformist, Maajid Nawaz,

0:27:52.773,0:27:56.007
has had fatwas issued [br]calling for his death

0:27:56.007,0:27:58.576
for simply saying on a tweet

0:27:58.576,0:28:01.452
that a cartoon of Muhammad [br]doesn't personally offend him.

0:28:02.077,0:28:05.377
The religious right has been murdering [br]reformers for centuries,

0:28:05.377,0:28:07.922
but we are still here, [br]fighting for our future,

0:28:07.922,0:28:11.406
the same fight that the West has had [br]much greater success in.

0:28:11.966,0:28:16.165
It is strange that the very same people, [br]who wish to tamp down on the power

0:28:16.165,0:28:20.758
of the Christian right and use [br]the advances that the West has had,

0:28:20.758,0:28:23.961
to insist that we must be defined [br]by our religious right.

0:28:24.636,0:28:26.376
Let us assume, for the sake of argument,

0:28:26.376,0:28:30.480
that we can all concede the idea that [br]Islam, as a religion, needs reform,

0:28:30.480,0:28:34.139
or at the very least, Muslim communities [br]do, both in the West and abroad,

0:28:34.139,0:28:36.989
and in the way that they choose [br]to practice their faith.

0:28:37.434,0:28:40.856
I happen to believe this. [br]All the data we have corroborates this.

0:28:41.605,0:28:43.022
There's a large amount of evidence

0:28:43.024,0:28:46.061
which clearly demonstrates [br]rampant misogyny,

0:28:46.061,0:28:49.685
bad attitudes towards homosexuals [br]and apostasy within the Muslim world,

0:28:49.685,0:28:52.657
supported by the law and widely [br]accepted by the people.

0:28:54.156,0:28:58.301
In an effort to draw attention away [br]from the role of religion in all this,

0:28:58.301,0:29:04.349
some have chosen to instead use [br]excuses by a variety of reasons,

0:29:04.349,0:29:05.811
none of which make sense,

0:29:05.811,0:29:09.083
because Muslim countries share [br]almost nothing between them all,

0:29:09.083,0:29:10.851
except the predominant religion:

0:29:11.159,0:29:15.888
not socio-economic status, [br]not education or literacy levels, not GDP,

0:29:15.888,0:29:20.424
not cultural background or history, [br]not race or ethnicity, not language,

0:29:20.424,0:29:23.799
not political system, [br]not the history of Western colonization.

0:29:23.799,0:29:26.160
What they do share is theology.

0:29:27.271,0:29:31.164
Obviously Islam isn't the root of [br]all evil, but it is an important factor.

0:29:31.550,0:29:34.252
What we have here is a right wing [br]in the West who believes

0:29:34.252,0:29:36.050
that Islam personifies evil

0:29:36.050,0:29:40.189
and a Left which refuses to even [br]look into it as a source of harm.

0:29:41.051,0:29:44.248
The question then becomes, [br]how do we achieve reform

0:29:44.248,0:29:47.354
without actually mentioning [br]any problems in Islam?

0:29:47.739,0:29:50.092
How do we achieve progress [br]while shying away

0:29:50.092,0:29:54.701
from one of the foundational aspects [br]of how harmful practices are justified?

0:29:55.708,0:29:58.794
Most cultures are responsive [br]to selective pressure,

0:29:58.794,0:30:01.203
and by insisting that no pressure [br]be applied,

0:30:01.203,0:30:03.616
we are acting as a brake on any progress.

0:30:04.253,0:30:06.899
We have plenty of evidence [br]that a push for secularism

0:30:06.899,0:30:10.841
or a presence within secular cultures [br]can change behavior,

0:30:10.841,0:30:12.597
and even the beliefs of Muslims.

0:30:13.558,0:30:16.508
For example, if you compare [br]Muslims living in the US

0:30:16.508,0:30:20.556
with Muslims in the Middle East, [br]you will find across all metrics,

0:30:20.556,0:30:25.095
that their opinions are less extreme[br]and more in line with liberal values,

0:30:25.095,0:30:28.000
than those of the population [br]of their origin countries.

0:30:29.003,0:30:32.242
Many Muslims believe that [br]their religion is immutable,

0:30:32.242,0:30:36.421
that every word of which is true, [br]and reformers insult them

0:30:36.421,0:30:37.908
when they demand change.

0:30:38.218,0:30:41.420
Yet profound changes in the way [br]Muslims practice their religion

0:30:41.420,0:30:43.085
have occurred in the past.

0:30:43.555,0:30:47.298
Many Muslim countries practiced [br]slavery up until the twentieth century,

0:30:47.839,0:30:51.785
with some countries abolishing slavery [br]as recently as 1981,

0:30:52.046,0:30:55.385
citing religious sanction of the practice [br]as a justification.

0:30:55.964,0:31:00.687
Saudi Arabia's slave population [br]was estimated at 300,000

0:31:00.687,0:31:03.625
a scant 50 years ago,

0:31:03.625,0:31:06.666
and it was international pressure [br]that forced abolition.

0:31:08.132,0:31:11.342
Under pressure from the [br]British Empire to abolish slavery

0:31:11.342,0:31:12.504
a little over a century ago,

0:31:12.504,0:31:16.234
the Sultan of Morocco cited [br]the inerrancy of the Quran

0:31:16.234,0:31:18.586
to make the case for the divine [br]sanction of slavery.

0:31:19.372,0:31:22.058
Later the chief minister of Morocco, [br]Muhammad Idris,

0:31:22.058,0:31:25.205
wrote in response to anti-slavery [br]efforts, that

0:31:25.205,0:31:28.879
"we do not interfere in religious [br]principles which you profess,

0:31:28.879,0:31:31.564
likewise you should not interfere [br]in our religion".

0:31:32.357,0:31:36.038
In the face of Ottoman unwillingness [br]to condemn the status of slaves

0:31:36.038,0:31:41.805
as enshrined in Shariah, [br]a British statesman sarcastically stated,

0:31:41.805,0:31:44.769
that one might well ask the Sultan [br]to become a Christian.

0:31:45.868,0:31:50.706
Yet today, most if not all Muslims [br]are repulsed by the idea of slaves.

0:31:51.782,0:31:55.611
Did they abandon the Quran which [br]seemed to clearly condone slavery

0:31:55.611,0:31:57.145
a mere century ago?

0:31:57.145,0:31:59.589
Or were we able to shift [br]mainstream consensus

0:31:59.589,0:32:01.768
by standing up for our moral principles?

0:32:02.163,0:32:03.687
I wonder what would have happened

0:32:03.687,0:32:07.317
if the benevolent bigots of the West, [br]of the Left today,

0:32:07.317,0:32:10.154
who feel that it is more important [br]to respect a culture

0:32:10.154,0:32:13.595
for the sake of respecting a culture [br]had existed back then.

0:32:14.234,0:32:16.483
How many millions would be [br]living in chains today?

0:32:17.805,0:32:21.689
There is another common narrative, [br]of the West as oppressors,

0:32:21.689,0:32:24.928
how racism here feeds [br]into the oppression of a minority.

0:32:24.928,0:32:28.258
Champions of Islam have gone [br]on record using it as a cudgel

0:32:28.258,0:32:31.626
to beat against the back of progress.

0:32:32.225,0:32:35.812
We need to be aware that [br]the victim versus the oppressor dynamic

0:32:35.812,0:32:38.737
isn't set in stone the way some people [br]would have you believe.

0:32:39.227,0:32:42.856
One can be a victim in one context [br]and an oppressor in another.

0:32:43.506,0:32:46.939
A Muslim man may deal with racism [br]at work, real racism,

0:32:46.939,0:32:51.641
may see career setbacks, [br]and goes home and beats his hijabi wife

0:32:51.641,0:32:54.283
because he was raised [br]in a misogynistic tradition,

0:32:54.283,0:32:57.420
using Quran's verse as justification.

0:32:58.107,0:32:59.823
Should we not criticize his behavior

0:32:59.823,0:33:02.046
because of his victimization [br]in one aspect?

0:33:03.285,0:33:07.999
An imam may be an anti-Semite, [br]a homophobe, he may be indoctrinating

0:33:07.999,0:33:11.024
a generation of impressionable minds [br]into his harmful ideas.

0:33:11.527,0:33:14.729
Yet the same imam might also [br]be a victim of bigotry

0:33:14.729,0:33:16.685
when he aims to launch a new mosque.

0:33:16.685,0:33:20.765
He may be the target of [br]local xenophobic attitudes.

0:33:21.885,0:33:23.928
In lieu of his sufferings, [br]should we pretend

0:33:23.928,0:33:27.926
his other despicable behaviors [br]do not exist, or do not matter?

0:33:28.746,0:33:30.879
Are we to sacrifice one for the other?

0:33:31.346,0:33:34.023
Instead, can we not stand [br]against all oppressions,

0:33:34.023,0:33:37.650
stand for the equal rights of others, [br]while simultaneously working

0:33:37.650,0:33:40.099
against bigoted narratives [br]within religion?

0:33:40.986,0:33:42.609
One of my Ex-Muslim colleagues,[br]Hiba Krisht,

0:33:42.609,0:33:45.225
beautifully summed up [br]the same sentiments,

0:33:45.225,0:33:50.087
when she was talking about [br]the misogynistic nature of the hijab,

0:33:51.118,0:33:55.321
quote, feminism is defending [br]women, Muslim women,

0:33:55.321,0:33:59.347
who wear the hijab for whatever reason,[br]against shaming or attack.

0:33:59.857,0:34:05.770
Feminism is not categorically [br]denying that the hijab can be coercive,

0:34:05.770,0:34:10.120
body-shaming, slut-shaming, restrictive [br]or psychologically crippling.

0:34:11.447,0:34:14.462
We cannot avoid reality [br]because we are afraid

0:34:14.462,0:34:17.024
of the consequences [br]of acknowledging facts.

0:34:17.024,0:34:21.656
Is it ethical to avoid educating our [br]children about Darwinian evolution

0:34:21.656,0:34:24.835
simply because it has fed [br]into Social Darwinism in the past?

0:34:25.632,0:34:28.963
Our silence about uncomfortable truths [br]simply underscores

0:34:28.963,0:34:33.176
the cost of our inaction as [br]the consequences loom ever larger.

0:34:33.694,0:34:37.070
We are paralyzed by our own [br]insecurities, by our fear

0:34:37.070,0:34:40.812
that the truth will empower [br]the worst of us, rather than set us free.

0:34:42.440,0:34:44.653
We have those on the Islamic far right

0:34:44.653,0:34:47.419
who say that there is no room [br]for reform in Islam,

0:34:47.419,0:34:49.937
because Islam is, [br]and always has been perfect.

0:34:49.937,0:34:53.290
We have their counterparts [br]from the far right in the West,

0:34:53.290,0:34:56.366
who coincidentally also view Islam [br]as beyond reform,

0:34:56.366,0:34:57.659
but for different reasons,

0:34:57.659,0:35:00.440
as something that is irredeemably [br]and permanently evil.

0:35:00.899,0:35:03.997
Between those two extremes, [br]we have the average Muslim,

0:35:03.997,0:35:07.614
who is forced to choose [br]between the devil he knows,

0:35:07.614,0:35:11.786
Islamic dominance and supremacy, over [br]the devil he doesn't, Western bigotry.

0:35:12.312,0:35:14.999
The liberal Left needs to present [br]a different path,

0:35:14.999,0:35:17.569
not acquiesce to either form [br]of religious dominance.

0:35:17.569,0:35:20.849
It is particularly important that those [br]who stand for compassion,

0:35:20.849,0:35:22.418
that those who stand for human rights

0:35:22.418,0:35:25.669
and who recognize the harmful effects [br]of bigotry and discrimination

0:35:25.669,0:35:29.990
lead the charge against religious [br]oppression no matter where it stems.

0:35:30.860,0:35:33.638
We know, not only is reform is possible,

0:35:33.638,0:35:36.344
but it is ongoing against [br]insurmountable odds,

0:35:36.344,0:35:38.906
it has champions that are [br]laying their lives on the line

0:35:38.906,0:35:39.987
for a better tomorrow.

0:35:39.987,0:35:43.490
We cannot and must not [br]let the current situation endure

0:35:43.490,0:35:46.386
where reformists of Islam are standing [br]alone and vulnerable.

0:35:48.090,0:35:51.386
We must remember that there is [br]no inevitable march of progress,

0:35:51.386,0:35:55.114
no guarantee that tomorrow's world [br]will be more just, more equal,

0:35:55.114,0:35:59.256
more rational, more tolerant [br]or reasonable.

0:35:59.651,0:36:01.648
Liberal rights without liberals [br]to champion them

0:36:01.648,0:36:04.188
are values without influence, [br]with no defense.

0:36:04.655,0:36:07.012
Let's not let our empathy [br]for oppression of one group

0:36:07.012,0:36:09.467
excuse their oppression of another.

0:36:09.917,0:36:11.050
Thank you!

0:36:11.056,0:36:34.983
(Standing applause)

0:36:39.568,0:36:42.886
(Man) Well, OK, we have time [br]for one question

0:36:42.886,0:36:44.723
and then we'll have to take[br]a 10-minute break

0:36:44.723,0:36:48.004
Nobody likes a time-keeper,[br]not speakers, not audience

0:36:48.505,0:36:49.804
I'm here to be hated.

0:36:50.388,0:36:51.790
(Man 2) I'm glad I got here first.

0:36:51.790,0:36:55.597
First of all, thank you for your [br]courage and bravery,

0:36:55.597,0:36:56.810
with what you're doing.

0:36:56.810,0:37:03.342
(Haider) Thank you[br](Applause)

0:37:03.342,0:37:05.489
(Man 2) You mentioned [br]the word reform a lot

0:37:05.492,0:37:10.861
and others have spoken of Islam[br]as potentially being

0:37:10.861,0:37:13.527
at the, I guess the beginning[br]of a reformation,

0:37:14.087,0:37:16.312
similar to what happened[br]with Catholicism.

0:37:17.072,0:37:20.644
I guess I have two questions[br]-- sorry, two parts.

0:37:21.270,0:37:24.642
First, do you believe that we are seeing[br]the beginning of that?

0:37:24.650,0:37:30.014
And if so, do you, or should we have[br]any confidence

0:37:30.014,0:37:32.646
that that reformation, [br]if and when it comes in Islam,

0:37:32.646,0:37:39.019
will be any less bloody than what[br]historically, we experienced

0:37:39.019,0:37:40.718
with the Catholic Reformation?

0:37:41.901,0:37:45.223
(Haider) I've heard that comparison[br]quite a few times

0:37:45.223,0:37:47.467
and I made it myself quite a few times.

0:37:48.317,0:37:51.902
But I don't think they are exactly [br]the same, in the sense that

0:37:51.902,0:37:54.503
this change will need to happen[br]at a different pace.

0:37:54.503,0:37:56.659
It'll need to be faster,[br]and it will be faster,

0:37:56.659,0:38:03.584
because of, you know, social media[br]and the way that secular literature

0:38:03.584,0:38:06.063
and atheist literature has spread[br]across the internet.

0:38:06.063,0:38:10.491
A lot of Ex-Muslims who join our group,[br]The Ex-Muslims of North America,

0:38:10.491,0:38:15.164
tell me that they started thinking about,[br]you know, atheism or humanism

0:38:15.164,0:38:19.478
when they first read something[br]Richard Dawkins wrote, back in Egypt.

0:38:19.478,0:38:23.536
This is possible now, so I really believe[br]that it can be faster

0:38:23.536,0:38:26.369
and I think that it doesn't [br]have to be as bloody

0:38:26.369,0:38:30.240
if the West is willing to stand up [br]for the reformists,

0:38:30.240,0:38:36.498
with the reformists in the East.[br](Applause)

0:38:36.498,0:38:39.186
(Captions are based on Arun's transcript:[br]see link in description)