WEBVTT

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(music playing)

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What the fuck, dude!

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What the fuck!

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Oh shit! There we go!

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(music playing)

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The history.

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I had been running the Dark Tangent System,

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that was the name of my bulletin board system.

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The bulletin board was known around the world, we were on international FIDO networks.

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And one of those networks called Platinum NET out of Canada, was going away.

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He was shutting it down.

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I was the biggest node, I had the most users, and I distributed to the United States.

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And he wanted to throw a party, a going away party for all of his Platinum NET users.

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But he didn't want to do it in Canada, and all of his users were in the states,

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and so we were talking, he says "Well you should do it, we should work together."

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And I said "Great. Let's do it in Vegas." That makes the most sense, cheap airfare.

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And he said "Sounds good." And I mean, this happened over the course of less than a week.

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It was really brief.

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And then all of a sudden he disappeared, Platinum NET went down,

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and all these years, 20 years later, I never heard from the guy again.

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I can't even remember his name, it's been so long.

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So when he disappeared, I had already started planning to do this going away party

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for Platinum NET.

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So instead, I invited all my networks and it went from being a going away party to, a party.

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There was HoHoCon, there was an XCon. There was PUMPCON, Summercon.

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But there was no real west coast con. So we figured, OK...

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So it ended up being DEF CON.

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The first one, there was a flier that went out and that kind of circulated

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around on some of the sites, and, and I think that's how I came across it initially.

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I'm assuming it was because of a book I wrote, or maybe my congressional testimony

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I don't know, but somehow he had contacted me to come out and speak.

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I actually didn't wanna go to the first DEF CON.

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I did not want to go to the first DEF CON. A number of my friends were going.

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They were trying to get me to go, they kept telling me it was going to be fun

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and I kept thinking to myself, "I've never been to Las Vegas before",

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and you know, I used to go to BBS user meets, and well, a lot of them

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are pretty lame and I thought to myself

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"OK, this is just going to be a BBS user meet... in Vegas."

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Jeff contacted me somehow, said "You wanna come out to Vegas?"

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I said, "Well, I don't like Vegas." "Come out and speak and there's

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a bunch of people, Phil Zimmerman, and a couple of other folks," and...

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DEF CON 1.

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And I had a blast. I had so much fun.

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It felt we were part of something that was really kinda legitimized

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because there was this event around it, you know, it wasn't just,

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you know, random people that you might have known or heard, or it wasn't

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somebody (in the phone phreak world) on the end of a toll-free

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loop around that you called at midnight. "Hey, who's there?"

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So, I ended up meeting a lot of people, some of whom I'm still friends with to this day...out of all of that.

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And I remember, after the first DEF CON was over, and I was back home, and I

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was decompressing, somebody wrote me on UUCP in my email. Wrote me an

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email and said "Hey, that was great. When are you doing it again?"

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Until I had gotten that email, I had never thought of doing it again.

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And then I thought, "You know, I could probably make this better. I could

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change this, I could..." and then that started it, that was all, game over from there.

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It was, every year, what can I make better, what went wrong, how do I fix it.

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And that geek sort of fix-it mentality kicks in, and you're always trying to improve it.

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It's sort of like this challenge you'll never solve, but you keep wanting to make it better.

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(music playing)

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The people who missed a few years. the differences between their experiences

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is going to be pretty radically different.

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DEF CON 1 was around 100 people, and we expect roughly 15,000 for DEF CON 20.

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We work nonstop. I haven't seen 4th of July in like 7 years.

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It's crazy that DEF CON, you can label it as a hobby, takes so much time.

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Because it seems like pretty much from the moment DEF CON ends until the time

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that we're spinning it up again, we're busy.

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You know, technically I retired 2 years ago, but I can't give it up,

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because it's such a part of me. I'm giving back to the same culture

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that spawned me.

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DEF CON for the last 10 years, especially, has been a very big part of my life.

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It consumes most of my free time. DEF CON starts, for me, the day after DEF CON is over,

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for the next year.

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It's going to be amazing. We have so many surprises planned for the attendees.

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It's going to be remarkable. This is going to be a really, really special year.

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If you're sleeping, you're doing it wrong.

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A lot of people who are hardcore DEF CON attendees, or staff, they negotiate

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when they change jobs. "That's fine, everything's good, but I need to take,

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you know, 2 weeks off."

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I never thought that my party would be a job employment prerequisite.

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(music playing)

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I am not kidding, I am expecting another well orchestrated, well-oiled machine,

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coming together and producing this amazing gathering of geeks.

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No kidding, it's what we do. We come together and we do the HELL out of it.

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And I expect it to happen this year.

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(music playing)

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There's absolutely a difference between driving and flying.

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When Utah group, for example, used to go down to DEF CON, years and years

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and years ago, there was a whole process where basically we gathered at this

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restaurant called "D's", or we called it "Freaky D's", at like 2am,

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and basically 20 or 30 of us piled into the restaurant and we'd have our caravan

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of cars all set together, and that was our group of people.

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There are some hijinks that I can't even imagine mentioning on the documentary,

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that can happen on a long 9 hour drive from the Denver area to Las Vegas.

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When you're driving, to get there, especially from the west coast,

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you have to drive through the middle of fucking nowhere.

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And it certainly adds to the experience when you roll in, and it's just after

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sunrise, or just about sunset, you really have no idea what time it is, and there's

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Sin City, and of course you're playing "Viva Las Vegas" by the Dead Kennedys

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or something like that. It does add to the experience I think.

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(music playing)

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"Actually, here comes the Hack Bus now." "Pretty awesome!"

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It kind of blows my mind that everyone's so excited about going to a BBQ

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six miles away from the con that have to rent a taxi for, or go to the store and get food.

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I don't know. I just feel like the BBQ is this misfit love child of DEF CON,

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because everyone's, "There's this thing that happens over there and they're grilling alligator and elk and all this crazy meat."

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"Why can't we ever go? Where is it?" And that kind of adds to the mystery and fun of it.

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(Music playing)

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Man, did I never expect that to become something a thousand people strong, now.

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(Music Playing)

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To me that shows an awesome community and spirit, and an effort of

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"I want to see my friends and hang out with them and I wanna do something simple, like eat some food."

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You know, it's not at the con, there's no crazy music, it's just a BBQ.

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Ever since I was in town around DEF CON 10 or 11 you see those signs in the

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airport, "Come Shoot a Machine Gun." Which, you know, is fine for me,

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I've done that, but a lot of my friends said, "Man, I'd love to do that!"

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Well, I said, let's just go out in the desert, I'm sure we can find a nice group rate, and

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and we'll shoot out in a sand pit, and everyone had a blast, and they said

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"Boy! This was great, you want to do this again?"

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So now, there's just this well known, public shooting spot,

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way out on the Lovell Canyon Rd, where anyone can go and

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shoot what they want, as long as they police up the area. And we use it and it's

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again, much like DEF CON itself, getting popular and growing.

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Now we have canopies and tables rented, that I arrange. There's a small per head fee,

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just to cover that. We had a hundred people on the line last year. We've got damn near that

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many registered this year. We're going to stay safe and see what we can make happen!

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(Gun shots, talking)

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Can everyone hear me, over the reports, over the berm? (Yes, yes mumbles, Alright)

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All firearms are always what? Loaded! They are always loaded!

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Nothing is ever an unloaded firearm. You always point the firearm where?

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where? In a safe direction. In a safe direction.

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Yes. The key point being, not just being what is your target, but what is beyond it!

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The hacker community, you can never put a single hat on anybody, but there's a libertarian undercurrent to

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a lot of our membership, so being able to treat guns as, well, that's this piece of equipment

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if you use it the right way, it's great. It percolates through most minds.

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So, you get the occasional raised eyebrow, but half the time that's the person who's, like,

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"I'm gonna go see exactly what you think is so fun," and they're out there shooting a cannon, or

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an automatic rifle, and they say, "Boy, I get this."

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(Bullets plinking, ricochets, music, cannon booms.)

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I think it was the year when it was at the Aladdin, and we'd forgotten to sort of clean up our

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room, or we didn't think the maid was gonna show up as early as they did, and we had gone off to breakfast, and we came back

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and the maid had been in the room, and cleaned the room, and organized all of the drugs!

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So there's a little pile of acid, and a little pile of ecstacy, and some other pills, and they're

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in nice, neat little piles, and everybody's like, "Well, I guess things are different in Las Vegas."

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You've got to put the convention in a 24 hour city.

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You know, it's got to be like a New York, or Vegas, or maybe a San Francisco, because

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hackers get bored, and there's got to be something for them to do. And I saw what happened when you had a lot of bored hackers running around.

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You know, a lot of activities in the computer underground

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would happen after midnight. That's just the way it is. So, you know,

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the fact that people can move around, and not be noticed as much being

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a group moving around at midnight, that kind of added to the appeal.

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I'm big on privacy. Nevada still respects people's personal privacy.

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You know, your hotel room is considered your domicile.

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It sounded fun... you know, just a bunch of computer people, it just seemed like

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my group was in Vegas and it sounded like a really, really fun time.

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So, that, you know, whole underworld connotation of it all,

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was very attractive to me.

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So I feel like there's gonna be a stream of people really dedicated, like, "We're gonna be first! We're gonna be first in line!"

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I wanna make sure I get a badge. That was my biggest concern since my first DEF CON, and I wanna make sure I walk away with a badge.

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We're all DEF CON virgins, we gotta pop that DEF CON cherry. Get those badges!

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INTERVIEWER: How many hours do you have before you get your badges?

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At least nine hours now?

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(Background noise)

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Ok, and that's $20. So, that's $20 plus $20 tip for you.

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Thank you very much! Yes, we drink. Good! What are we drinking? Stop recording, please!

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We've got pizza. Pizza is GOOD! Alright.

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Jet-Lag has sunk in. It looks like he's using a pizza box for a pillow.

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We will not abandon our posts.

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(Music and background noise.)

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(Music, background noise, and crowd control.)

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(Music and background noise.)

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This is my first DEF CON badge! INTERVIEWER: Now what made you decided you were going to come to DEF CON?

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My husband's work decided to send him, and I started going through all of the videos

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that they had for DEF CON 19, and I started looking at that and going, "Oh, this is really cool!"

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This is the 20th DEF CON, and I've been wanting to do it for years, and it was just one of those things that just sort of lined up,

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all the moons lined up perfectly.

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Definitely heard a lot about the con. It's a somewhat affordable con, and there's lots of technical discussions.

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A whole bunch of really smart people that probably know more than I do, most of them, so I hope to learn something.

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You know, an opportunity to hang out with those people who really know what's going on.

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You know, it's too enticing to miss out on.

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I thought this would be an amazing place to just meet really intelligent people.

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So, now I'm here and I'm really excited!

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To meet a lot of interesting people and learn a lot and have a lot of fun at once.

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It's kind of, you know, a big congregation of

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people who live anonymously online, get to actually

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socialize in person, and not have to worry about,

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you know, revealing their identity.

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Well, I've read all kinds of dire warnings about using anything

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that's potential hackable, and nearly anything is hackable.

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I was told to take the battery out of my phone.

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You know, I've got a check list sort of in my mind, you know, kilt,

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colored hair, drinking before 10am I haven't seen quite just yet...

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Every single device in the world has some kind of computer in it, and they all

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have vulnerabilities one way or another and this is information of

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what those vulnerabilities could be and how to fix them and improve it for the future.

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INTERVIEWER: Are you the teacher? - Yes. INTERVIEWER: You are the teacher, and this is your first DEF CON?

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- Yes. INTERVIEWER: And you thought to take a pack of neophyte students into

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Las Vegas to go to a hacking conference? - Yes. INTERVIEWER: Do you have tenure?

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Rule Number One: Follow the 3-2-1 rule. DAILY.

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And please bear in mind, these are minimums,

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at a minimum, three hours of sleep.

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Two meals. One shower.

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By tomorrow afternoon, the pungent and stank aroma

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of many DEF CON attendees will waft through the air and hit you like a Mack Truck.

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So, remember, you plus deodorant equals everybody wins!

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(Laughter)

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I, like many people here, will not remember your real name.

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There are lots of Steves, Jeffs, Chrises, and Bills, but maybe only one, maybe two, with your unique handle.

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Hopefully, you've picked a good and unique handle to avoid conflicts in the namespace.

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(Music)

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Create a good handle for yourself, before someone creates it for you.

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So I've got a question. Who here is from other countries?

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WOW. (applause)

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That's impressive, thank you for coming all the way to join us, you guys,

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that's awesome that you came out.

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DEF CON is truly an event and a conference where you get out

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what you put into it.

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DEF CON is the one time a year where everything that we do year-round

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actually becomes physical.

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All these people that you've met in IRC, All these people you've been chatting to,

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All these people you've been reading their research, following their work,

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looking at the different things they're publishing... They're here.

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Walk up to them, tell them that you like their work, and buy them a beer.

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They'll probably be your best friend.

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That's one of the biggest things about this crowd you've got to really swallow

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is the fact we're all super, super approachable.

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You can be a wallflower here and still get a lot out of it, but you're not gonna

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get your 200 bucks worth, frankly.

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You're gonna have to interact, work with people, get to know people,

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go party with people.

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If you don't know something, be proud of that. Be like "I don't know this.

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Can you please teach me? Can you please educate me and train me?"

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This crowd loves spinning people up.

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Take the time to go in and learn from these people. They're geniuses,

00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:35.000
truly geniuses, and some of the best in the world in whatever it is

00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.000
that they're presenting or working with. So, take advantage of it, you guys, OK?

00:21:41.500 --> 00:21:45.000
Alright, the next rule is one that basically says

00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:49.000
"The media is not your friend. Don't trust them." (laughter)

00:21:54.750 --> 00:21:59.000
INTERVIEWER: What do you think is the number 1 thing people misunderstand

00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:59.000
when they show up to DEF CON?

00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:06.000
That it's a den of illegal activity and you're gonna come learn how to do really

00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:12.000
neat, illegal, black hat, gonna get in trouble if the FBI shows up at your door

00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:18.000
and you should show up with your ski mask on just so no one can know your identity.

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:22.000
INTERVIEWER: What is it actually then?

00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:28.000
It's a publicly funded, private party for a bunch of really cool people.

00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:35.000
Yeah, our reputation is ... it's out there, but people are proud of it

00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:39.000
and I'm probably the only one who tries to go around and go "It wasn't quite like that,

00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:42.000
it was sorta like this."

00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:51.000
I don't think people understand how much goes into creating a show of this size.

00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:59.000
DEF CON looks like this big amorphous jellyfish of people everywhere, but what I hadn't

00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:02.000
realized is that there is really a lot of stuff that goes on on the back end

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:05.000
to keep it running like clockwork.

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.000
That's what makes DEF CON so exciting. It's super organic, is the way I see it.

00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:13.000
If you're inflexible, it doesn't work with DEF CON because there's too many

00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:17.000
people and you'll just break, and that's just the reality of it.

00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:21.000
I always joke for me it's an opportunity to spend 4 days out of the year

00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:24.000
not caring about computers or computer security.

00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:31.000
Everybody's Christmas, New Year's, Birthday, Anniversary, wrapped up into one, for hackers.

00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:37.000
It's an experience that's not like anything that anybody has described because it's

00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:40.000
kind of something you can make what you want out of it.

00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:46.000
You can show up and you can just go to talks and you can sit there and get that

00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:51.000
out of the conference or you can show up and just party. You can show up and hang

00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:55.000
out in your hotel room with a bunch of friends. When it comes down to it,

00:23:55.000 --> 00:24:00.000
you're the driver of the experience. It's not a pony show where you can just, you know,

00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:05.000
sit down in a seat and let it unfold before you. The more active you become

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:08.000
inside the con the more fun you can have.

00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:34.000
For me, I think it's more social.

00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:39.000
Mainly, for me, it's just a lot of close friends that I get to meet once a year

00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:42.000
because of the diversity of where they all live in the United States.

00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.000
So this is kind of like a meeting point.

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:50.000
Go out there, be social, just run into people and say "hi" and just strike up a

00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:53.000
conversation because you will meet interesting people here.

00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:58.000
It's fantastic, everybody is friendly. I can sit down and talk to anybody and I

00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:04.000
just ask them "what do you do" and they're happy to tell me about what kind of

00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:07.500
employment they do or the hobbies that they're in. It's just striking up

00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:10.500
conversations. That's my personal favorite.

00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:17.250
It's a combination of the people who I run into at DEF CON and just sort of the atmosphere.

00:25:17.250 --> 00:25:27.000
It's like a giant party that doesn't want to end but there is a lot of

00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:35.000
really smart people in one place and it's just, there is really no other place like it.

00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:50.000
(music playing)

00:25:55.000 --> 00:26:20.000
(music playing)

00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:27.000
The first qualification, if you will, to be a vendor at DEF CON is "how are you

00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:31.000
providing back to the hacker community at large." A lot of money goes through

00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:37.000
there. It's kind of staggering. One thing that we try and do is most of these

00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:41.000
guys, most of the vendors if you walk around that room, this isn't their primary

00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:45.000
business. These are people that are in the community. Take a look at these guys.

00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.000
They're only doing this this time of year and it's only to provide something to the

00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.000
community that they think is neat. Those are the kind of folks that

00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:56.000
definitely get a priority when I'm looking through applications.

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:20.000
(music playing)

00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:22.500
INTERVIEWER: It looks like you're doing things right.

00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:27.000
Ok, is this on? Oh, Boy! Ok...

00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:30.500
What I've tried to do with the whole hacking community is raise the level

00:27:30.500 --> 00:27:35.000
of discourse, that's the thing is, to bring information, to make it

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:39.000
accessible and widely dispersed at a reasonable price and make people happy.

00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:42.500
And if i put a smile on their face it's like "Wow, really, that's a great price and

00:27:42.500 --> 00:27:47.000
I get that too?" That's good. I don't need every last dollar. What are you gonna do

00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:49.000
with dollars anyway? They're just numbers.

00:27:49.500 --> 00:27:53.500
Our main job actually is to create mayhem. That's actually what we've been asked by

00:27:53.500 --> 00:27:56.500
the management. Make sure we create a lot of mayhem. We actually have official

00:27:56.500 --> 00:28:02.000
DEF CON 8 posters from years ago that we found, so, we're not selling them,

00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:06.000
we're giving them away, but you have to convince us to give you one, and that

00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:12.000
requires mayhem in the dealer's room of some sort that we don't officially support

00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:16.000
but for some reason they end up with a poster. Who knew, right?

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:22.000
We are simplewifi.com. We are long range wireless made easy. We custom make all of

00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:27.500
our antennas in Miami, Florida, so if you want to go creating a hotspot around your

00:28:27.500 --> 00:28:32.500
whole neighborhood or you have that guy with an unfortunately has an open signal and

00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:36.500
you don't want to pay for Wi-Fi you can set your antenna pointing right at it,

00:28:36.500 --> 00:28:39.000
grab that signal and you have Internet for free.

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:45.000
The people that want something one year that you didn't bring, invariably won't

00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:50.000
want it next year. It's like everyone wanted network cables. Everyone wanted PIN card readers,

00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:57.000
or prox card readers or mag stripe readers, encoders, decoders, you know,

00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:03.000
it varies every year. And then everyone that leaves something behind, like

00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:06.000
"We need a hub" It's like, OK...

00:29:06.500 --> 00:29:11.000
I only have 53 tables in total that can be sold. Some vendors are getting 2,

00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:16.000
some vendors are getting 3 so you have to decide what's going to actually provide

00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:19.500
the most benefit to the attendees, what are they actually gonna want to buy and

00:29:19.750 --> 00:29:26.000
we certainly have made mistakes in the past. For one thing....

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:29.000
It used to be we shouldn't have even called it the vendor area. There were a couple of years, and I

00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:32.000
can't blame anybody but myself for this, where it should have been called the

00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:36.000
"buy your t-shirts room." The only thing that was for sale in there was t-shirts.

00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:40.750
You had 2 hardware vendors and 33 t-shirt vendors.

00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:50.250
Hackers love their t-shirts. In a weird way, it's like a way to kind of express

00:29:50.250 --> 00:29:53.000
your identity.

00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:57.000
I think we all do that through our shirts. It's a way when you're

00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:58.500
walking down the hall at DEF CON or any

00:29:58.501 --> 00:30:01.500
other conference or at work or wherever

00:30:01.501 --> 00:30:04.500
for people to kind of get an idea of who you are.

00:30:05.500 --> 00:30:09.000
So yeah, I mean the T-shirt aspect of it is certainly important.

00:30:09.250 --> 00:30:11.750
This is the one place I can wear all my T-shirts...

00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.500
and people will know what it is. - Yeah, people get it.

00:30:17.585 --> 00:30:23.585
There's something about that like, cinematic hacker.

00:30:23.835 --> 00:30:30.335
That's both goofy and inspiring and...

00:30:30.585 --> 00:30:35.085
Like I still play up... There's this mystery around it.

00:30:35.335 --> 00:30:38.835
Oooh, Spooky Hackers... and, like there's this dark side to it..

00:30:39.085 --> 00:30:40.585
and I still think I play that up in the art.

00:30:40.835 --> 00:30:44.584
That I'm still intrigued... I still don't know all of what's going on...

00:30:44.585 --> 00:30:47.085
Like, I'm a maker... I'm not a hacker.

00:30:49.335 --> 00:30:51.135
So, I was a goon the first year and

00:30:51.385 --> 00:30:52.885
they stuck me in the info booth.

00:30:53.135 --> 00:30:56.135
And then, about half way through the first day Russ came over first and said...

00:30:56.385 --> 00:30:59.885
"Hey I want you to draw on my badge..."

00:31:00.135 --> 00:31:01.635
We had great big badges that Joe Grand did...

00:31:01.885 --> 00:31:03.385
..and so I drew on it and then...

00:31:03.635 --> 00:31:05.384
Pyr0 came over and said "Hey, draw on my badge."

00:31:05.385 --> 00:31:07.885
And then in like 10 minutes there was this line

00:31:07.885 --> 00:31:10.385
out the door of people like "Draw on my badge.."

00:31:10.635 --> 00:31:12.135
and so Russ came up with the idea...

00:31:12.385 --> 00:31:13.885
"Well, if you're going to draw on the badge...

00:31:14.135 --> 00:31:17.135
"Why don't you make them give $5 to EFF for every badge you draw on.

00:31:17.385 --> 00:31:18.885
and raise some money."

00:31:19.135 --> 00:31:21.135
So, like, laptops I'd charge $20 for EFF...

00:31:21.385 --> 00:31:24.385
and then it ended up with a pile of money for EFF like the first year.

00:31:24.635 --> 00:31:29.135
So then the second year they said "You're not going to be in the info booth.

00:31:29.136 --> 00:31:32.636
"You're going to have A booth and sell art and draw on things for people

00:31:32.637 --> 00:31:35.137
to raise money for EFF." And that's how that took off so...

00:31:44.100 --> 00:31:46.313
[music playing]

00:31:52.563 --> 00:31:57.063
You have to believe in what you're doing...

00:31:57.313 --> 00:31:59.313
and you have to believe that whatever you have

00:31:59.314 --> 00:32:03.064
is the hottest, coolest, newest, best thing...

00:32:03.314 --> 00:32:07.164
and that if you have any shred of doubt about what you're presenting...

00:32:07.414 --> 00:32:11.914
or if your hearts not 100 percent into it, the audience is going to pick up on that right away.

00:32:12.164 --> 00:32:13.664
And... tune out.

00:32:13.914 --> 00:32:18.414
That's the thing, I think the B.S. filter here at DEF CON is very, very strong.

00:32:18.664 --> 00:32:22.364
I think the talks and the speeches are absolutely important

00:32:22.614 --> 00:32:26.114
because it gives the world an opportunity for a very inexpensive price

00:32:26.364 --> 00:32:29.364
to be able to go learn from the absolute best in the world in this industry

00:32:29.614 --> 00:32:33.114
about the absolute bleeding cutting edge of technology...

00:32:38.900 --> 00:32:43.936
[music playing]

00:32:44.186 --> 00:32:49.686
It was between 300 and 400 submissions that came in for people that

00:32:49.936 --> 00:32:51.436
wanted to speak at DEF CON this year.

00:32:52.686 --> 00:32:57.186
Yeah, it was a rough, rough year just because of the number of quality submissions...

00:32:57.436 --> 00:33:01.936
There were some that any other year absolutely would have been accepted...

00:33:02.186 --> 00:33:06.686
I think because this is the 20th DEF CON and it's because people want to be

00:33:06.936 --> 00:33:09.936
a part of DEF CON 20... we got so many more submissions.

00:33:10.186 --> 00:33:14.686
And so many more quality submissions...

00:33:14.936 --> 00:33:22.436
DEF CON speakers are all different types. Especially this year you have... you have generals, and you have 15 year old kids...

00:33:22.437 --> 00:33:24.937
all of whom have something different to contribute.

00:33:25.187 --> 00:33:30.687
There's not really one thing you can say that unites a DEF CON speaker...

00:33:30.937 --> 00:33:35.437
except for their desire to present their ideas to an audience.

00:33:35.687 --> 00:33:39.187
[music playing]

00:33:45.437 --> 00:33:49.937
[applause]

00:33:55.204 --> 00:34:02.704
And we've got a really cool V.I.P. this year... Yup... Really Cool.

00:34:02.705 --> 00:34:06.300
They better show up. [laugh]

00:34:07.301 --> 00:34:11.801
The big celebrity speaker V.I.P. for this year at DEF CON,

00:34:12.051 --> 00:34:14.251
The director of the NSA and director of cyber command

00:34:14.252 --> 00:34:15.752
General Alexander.

00:34:15.752 --> 00:34:18.051
We've been trying to get somebody from the NSA

00:34:18.301 --> 00:34:20.801
high level to speak for... 10 years.

00:34:20.802 --> 00:34:23.551
and it just so happens that we finally get somebody.

00:34:23.801 --> 00:34:26.301
And it just happens to be our 20th year anniversary so...

00:34:26.551 --> 00:34:28.051
the timing just works out really well.

00:34:28.301 --> 00:34:30.801
And I know people are going to get all bent in a knot over it...

00:34:31.051 --> 00:34:33.051
It's going to be like the love-hate relationship...

00:34:33.301 --> 00:34:35.051
They're also going to be really interested in what he has to say...

00:34:35.052 --> 00:34:37.801
and at the same time be really fearful of the NSA.

00:34:39.051 --> 00:34:42.051
It's a milestone to see someone of his position and level

00:34:42.301 --> 00:34:46.801
come here and speak about security and hackers and those types of things.

00:34:48.051 --> 00:34:50.051
Jeff Moss made a valid call and he kind of said...

00:34:50.301 --> 00:34:52.801
"Look, you know, we have to interact with these people." you know.

00:34:53.051 --> 00:34:55.751
we have the technical skills and they're the ones calling the shots.

00:34:56.001 --> 00:34:58.501
so we've got to interact with them. and at the end of the day...

00:34:58.751 --> 00:35:00.251
we've got to educate them. ya know?

00:35:00.501 --> 00:35:02.250
Helloooo DEF CON!

00:35:02.251 --> 00:35:03.751
[applause]

00:35:09.750 --> 00:35:12.400
Something I try to do with DEF CON is I want to

00:35:12.650 --> 00:35:15.150
expose you guys, from the very first DEF CON,

00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:17.400
to people you don't normally see like...

00:35:17.650 --> 00:35:20.450
I'm sure you guys just don't hang out and have coffee with

00:35:20.700 --> 00:35:24.200
the General and, neither do I

00:35:24.450 --> 00:35:28.740
so to me it's really eye opening to understand the world from their view.

00:35:29.300 --> 00:35:32.800
Having the NSA here was a great unveiling of the support

00:35:33.050 --> 00:35:35.550
and I think a little bit of appreciation from the government

00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:38.550
towards our community now, and a little bit more understanding

00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:43.300
of the work we do, and the actual end goals of what we are trying to accomplish here.

00:35:43.550 --> 00:35:45.050
[applause]

00:35:45.300 --> 00:35:46.800
Thank you...

00:35:47.050 --> 00:35:50.550
It's an honor to be here. It's an honor and a privilege

00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:52.300
to be here.

00:35:52.550 --> 00:35:54.050
You know, one of the things I want to talk about

00:35:54.300 --> 00:35:57.300
is the Freedom domain. The Internet.

00:35:57.550 --> 00:36:00.050
And what we can all do to work on this,

00:36:00.300 --> 00:36:04.300
and so I've got about 6 hours of presentation and slides [audience laughs]

00:36:04.300 --> 00:36:08.050
that we'll cut down to some meaningful time for you.

00:36:08.300 --> 00:36:12.000
I think it's amazing and D.T. wouldn't believe you if you could

00:36:12.250 --> 00:36:13.750
go back in time and tell him that 20 years from now

00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:17.500
you're gonna have an NSA general here talking to the group

00:36:17.500 --> 00:36:18.750
sort of as an ally.

00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:20.700
Seeing people like General Alexander come down

00:36:20.950 --> 00:36:23.450
and meet with us hackers... it's just amazing.

00:36:23.700 --> 00:36:28.200
I've been in the hacking scene for over, what, 25 years now

00:36:28.450 --> 00:36:33.150
and I remember the days when we were just considered criminals

00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:36.400
that no one wanted to integrate with, they didn't understand how

00:36:36.650 --> 00:36:39.150
a hacking ethos could be applied to things that weren't illegal.

00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:42.900
And now...this completely legitimizes what we're doing.

00:36:43.150 --> 00:36:45.650
People want to see what we're doing and they want to hear

00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:48.400
about what we're doing, and they're realizing that we

00:36:48.650 --> 00:36:51.150
have a role to play in keeping the world's infrastructure safe

00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:52.900
and keeping the government safe.

00:36:53.150 --> 00:36:54.650
And that... that's awesome.

00:36:54.900 --> 00:36:57.400
And there's a lot of things that are going on here.

00:36:57.650 --> 00:37:02.150
We can sit on the sidelines, and let others

00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:03.900
who don't understand this space

00:37:04.150 --> 00:37:07.850
tell us what they're going to do, or we can help by

00:37:08.100 --> 00:37:11.600
educating and informing them on the best strategy going forward

00:37:11.850 --> 00:37:15.350
that benefits all of us and our nation.

00:37:15.600 --> 00:37:18.100
And that's the real reason that I came here,

00:37:18.350 --> 00:37:19.850
to solicit your support.

00:37:20.213 --> 00:37:24.713
But on the other side we also have super privacy advocates,

00:37:24.963 --> 00:37:27.463
the E.F.F. is going to be right there next to them.

00:37:27.713 --> 00:37:30.213
And they're probably in a constant lawsuit with the N.S.A.

00:37:30.463 --> 00:37:32.963
so... we try to represent both sides.

00:37:33.213 --> 00:37:35.713
I mean, they're the ones that have been out there and

00:37:35.963 --> 00:37:39.463
helping when people try and do crazy laws

00:37:39.713 --> 00:37:43.413
that, you know, don't really understand the implications.

00:37:43.663 --> 00:37:48.363
The E.F.F. will step up and try and right the ship

00:37:48.613 --> 00:37:51.613
and make things good for everyone and

00:37:51.863 --> 00:37:53.363
we like to support them.

00:37:53.613 --> 00:37:55.813
And what I'm trying to do when I have these speakers

00:37:56.063 --> 00:37:58.563
is I'm trying to expose the audience to people they wouldn't normally

00:37:58.813 --> 00:38:01.313
come in contact with. It's not just always fun and games.

00:38:01.563 --> 00:38:04.063
hacking a system. There's a bigger world out there,

00:38:04.313 --> 00:38:05.813
and you're playing a part in it.

00:38:06.063 --> 00:38:07.563
A very important part.

00:38:07.813 --> 00:38:10.313
And if I didn't, I kind of think I'd be doing a disservice.

00:38:10.563 --> 00:38:14.063
It would be sort of like intentionally, I don't know, not aiming as high.

00:38:14.313 --> 00:38:18.813
So, if you don't like that speaker don't go to that talk.

00:38:19.063 --> 00:38:22.763
And I think that when you bring in not only our great talent here

00:38:23.013 --> 00:38:26.513
but those of our allies I think that's absolutely superb.

00:38:27.900 --> 00:38:30.463
All right, that brings this session to a close, so let's

00:38:30.713 --> 00:38:33.213
have a round of applause for General Alexander.

00:38:33.463 --> 00:38:37.963
[applause]

00:38:48.213 --> 00:38:53.713
[music playing]

00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:03.537
I think the contest and events is very key because

00:39:03.787 --> 00:39:06.487
it's one of the things that you'll find if you go to a lot of different conferences

00:39:06.737 --> 00:39:10.237
especially in the security arena... it's very boring. [laughs]

00:39:10.487 --> 00:39:14.187
Usually you're sitting around in a bar getting really, really drunk

00:39:14.437 --> 00:39:15.937
with a bunch of friends.

00:39:16.187 --> 00:39:18.687
And going to a couple talks that you're interested in seeing.

00:39:18.937 --> 00:39:21.437
But over all it's a lot of looking for something to do.

00:39:21.687 --> 00:39:25.187
We've just grown to where now I believe I'm managing about 50 events.

00:39:25.437 --> 00:39:28.937
50 events and contests throughout DEF CON 20.

00:39:29.187 --> 00:39:30.687
[music playing]

00:39:37.937 --> 00:39:41.437
INTERVIEWER: What's going on? -Not much, just cutting some mohawks.

00:39:45.500 --> 00:39:49.813
It just started out as shenanigans... with, like, drunk people in bathrooms

00:39:50.063 --> 00:39:51.563
at DEF CON.

00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:56.500
But people started giving us money. I started telling them to donate to the E.F.F.

00:39:56.750 --> 00:40:01.250
and so people told me I should make it official cause

00:40:01.251 --> 00:40:03.265
it just became tradition.

00:40:03.365 --> 00:40:06.256
(music playing)

00:40:06.356 --> 00:40:12.242
Last year we raised about $4000 total for EFF, Hackers for Charity,

00:40:12.314 --> 00:40:14.431
and other hackerspaces around the country.

00:40:14.487 --> 00:40:18.512
(music playing)

00:40:18.514 --> 00:40:23.055
I've been growing my hair out for 2 years ...it was difficult for the girl, because

00:40:23.250 --> 00:40:27.088
she was about this tall and she had to stand up on a chair to actually

00:40:27.109 --> 00:40:28.158
finish it all.

00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:32.508
This year we have a goal because last year he shook on it:

00:40:32.586 --> 00:40:37.027
DT will be getting a mohawk this year, if he likes it or not.

00:40:37.277 --> 00:40:41.477
(music playing)

00:40:41.508 --> 00:40:45.340
I've been playing Hack Fortress, which is an amazing competition, it's one of the highlights

00:40:45.378 --> 00:40:49.529
of DEF CON for me. Essentially we have a team of 6 to 8

00:40:49.558 --> 00:40:53.058
players who play Team Fortress really how it's meant to be played.

00:40:53.158 --> 00:40:57.658
You know: Medic, Heavy, and they try and capture points. We as the hacking team,

00:40:57.966 --> 00:41:02.404
essentially we're doing hacking challenges: cryptography, forensics,

00:41:02.454 --> 00:41:06.339
physical challenges, social engineering, information gathering, and that gets

00:41:06.359 --> 00:41:10.567
our team benefits. So it might light the other team on fire, it might make

00:41:10.666 --> 00:41:15.167
everything our team shoots a critical hit. It's just a really cool combination

00:41:15.211 --> 00:41:19.059
of both gaming and hacking which, you know, is awesome.

00:41:19.730 --> 00:41:47.456
(music playing)

00:41:48.909 --> 00:41:54.042
Now you've got an objective here, you've got a 3 person team, and you

00:41:54.100 --> 00:41:58.764
have to infiltrate this office, steal a lot of information and get back out

00:41:58.774 --> 00:42:00.743
again, in 15 minutes.

00:42:01.547 --> 00:42:06.469
But it's a penetration and data exfiltration job. So team-based people

00:42:06.629 --> 00:42:11.133
will penetrate into a virtual office, and we're framing out the walls and

00:42:11.205 --> 00:42:15.767
everything. You'll have to pick in, once you're in, a team of people then

00:42:16.017 --> 00:42:19.554
can try to get documents, which you don't just unlock a lock, you have to

00:42:19.804 --> 00:42:23.272
spread them out, legibly photograph them, put them back where you found

00:42:23.522 --> 00:42:26.710
them. I think we're including now, there's a smartphone, like an Android

00:42:26.873 --> 00:42:30.323
phone, so you have to hold it up just right and maybe you see the pattern.

00:42:30.473 --> 00:42:32.614
You swipe it out and you get some contacts.

00:42:32.864 --> 00:42:37.121
So I have this computer running Windows 3.11, so I'm watching people try to fumble

00:42:37.571 --> 00:42:42.386
their way through Windows File Manager, looking for data, but the really key

00:42:42.486 --> 00:42:44.912
thing is that if you can unlock the computer where it's chained up,

00:42:45.037 --> 00:42:49.761
can you get the whole computer out of the office, and can you do it without

00:42:49.911 --> 00:42:51.511
powering it off?

00:42:51.761 --> 00:42:56.688
So we are hot-jacking into the wires, splicing in the UPS using a tool

00:42:56.938 --> 00:43:00.102
the feds use, called a 'hotplug', to transfer the switching of the power

00:43:00.392 --> 00:43:06.243
on a whim, but a lot of people mad dash, half tiger-team, half Marx Brothers movie,

00:43:06.335 --> 00:43:09.250
running around this office, getting everything, getting out clean, locking

00:43:09.500 --> 00:43:13.935
it up after themselves. Yeah, I can see a lot of us who used to be the guy who

00:43:13.935 --> 00:43:17.419
would maybe get drunk and worry about being arrested, now we all have jobs

00:43:17.443 --> 00:43:19.947
where we do this professionally and get paid for it.

00:43:20.197 --> 00:43:24.225
(applause)

00:43:25.809 --> 00:43:35.143
(music playing)

00:43:35.393 --> 00:43:40.689
All right, all right, we are ready to begin! Everyone we're going to do science over

00:43:40.693 --> 00:43:43.630
here, we're going to do less science over there!

00:43:45.256 --> 00:43:51.178
These teams are tasked with cooling the beer to exactly 42 degrees...which is

00:43:51.642 --> 00:43:53.811
ridiculous...but...

00:43:54.061 --> 00:43:57.586
People came through...people came through in amazing ways that I never expected.

00:43:57.838 --> 00:44:01.348
This year I took away all the restrictions about what you can and

00:44:01.553 --> 00:44:06.540
can't do and I said you have to get it to exactly 42 degrees.

00:44:06.640 --> 00:44:12.561
And....time!

00:44:14.569 --> 00:44:22.060
And this last minute entry "Team Ice not Science" if I got their name right...

00:44:22.060 --> 00:44:27.512
hit it! Exactly! ... It was a fantastic success in the end!

00:44:28.384 --> 00:45:10.568
(music playing)

00:45:13.051 --> 00:45:19.150
Stop! This is ShizNiz live from DEF CON in the beautiful city of Las Vegas

00:45:19.150 --> 00:45:21.087
behind me you can see the skyline...

00:45:21.087 --> 00:45:25.081
It's a rooftop! Look at that rooftop!

00:45:25.265 --> 00:45:29.923
Over to your right if Dave can get it...

00:45:29.923 --> 00:45:32.741
There you go, there's the mountains...

00:45:32.741 --> 00:45:34.622
There's the Alexis Park...

00:45:34.622 --> 00:46:11.866
(music playing)

00:46:11.866 --> 00:46:18.362
The Alexis Park is part of the DEF CON legend. It definitely, it's probably the

00:46:18.415 --> 00:46:20.017
closest thing DEF CON has to a home.

00:46:20.664 --> 00:46:22.968
I know, I wish it was still at the Alexis Park.

00:46:22.988 --> 00:46:26.798
There was a long period of time that I associate with Alexis Park.

00:46:26.798 --> 00:46:28.516
We were there for a long time, like 6 or 7 years

00:46:28.525 --> 00:46:31.186
You've got the whole property. You can hang out by the pool...

00:46:31.650 --> 00:46:35.575
This is some horrible 70's-like apartment building laid out rows

00:46:35.575 --> 00:46:40.103
of these hotel rooms, with pools and grassy areas down the middle.

00:46:40.103 --> 00:46:44.247
It's like multiple pools that we could just party at all night...

00:46:44.421 --> 00:46:48.810
If you don't know what the Pool 2 means, if you don't know what Pool 3 means...

00:46:48.810 --> 00:46:52.572
You weren't there...I mean it, some really ridiculous stuff went on.

00:46:53.408 --> 00:47:01.697
Pool 2 and Pool 3 were just sort of like these nexuses of activity and energy...

00:47:01.697 --> 00:47:07.850
You could be guaranteed to find something going on at 2am, 3am all the

00:47:07.850 --> 00:47:10.062
way to the sunrise.

00:47:10.148 --> 00:47:14.850
And we had folks that were underage, and we had folks that were overage, and

00:47:14.898 --> 00:47:18.960
everyone was not sober, and doing their thing...

00:47:18.973 --> 00:47:25.439
I was told at one point that at the Alexis Park, we did enough business in

00:47:25.476 --> 00:47:30.183
alcohol sales that equalled about 4 months of their normal alcohol sales.

00:47:30.245 --> 00:47:33.636
And you talk about debauchery?

00:47:34.636 --> 00:47:36.960
The AP was where true debauchery at DEF CON occurred.

00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:40.242
(applause)

00:47:40.242 --> 00:47:44.920
(cheering)

00:47:45.170 --> 00:47:49.309
And at the time, the hotel owners, they were alright, they were alright.

00:47:49.309 --> 00:47:53.047
They basically had the attitude of, "You know what? You can trash our hotel if you want."

00:47:53.047 --> 00:47:57.425
"You'll pay for it, but at the end of the day, we'll take your money."

00:47:57.675 --> 00:48:01.940
They weren't as concerned about the lights around the pool getting destroyed,

00:48:01.940 --> 00:48:05.238
any things of that nature, so it was a little bit easier to deal with, you know,

00:48:05.238 --> 00:48:06.724
destruction in that way.

00:48:06.724 --> 00:48:12.750
I go to check in, and they hand me a list, "Ok, let me explain this to you."

00:48:12.820 --> 00:48:17.126
And it's a list of all of the objects in the room at the Alexis Park

00:48:17.126 --> 00:48:19.668
with a dollar amount next to it. "If you would like to destroy this object in your room

00:48:19.668 --> 00:48:21.538
this is how much it will cost you."

00:48:21.538 --> 00:48:26.452
You could just get insane and you weren't waking anyone up, you didn't have to

00:48:26.543 --> 00:48:30.072
worry about security coming and telling you to stop doing something because

00:48:30.072 --> 00:48:33.462
usually you were doing it to somebody who wanted you to.

00:48:33.462 --> 00:48:37.403
The Alexis Park, we were much more hands-on because they didn't

00:48:37.503 --> 00:48:38.842
have a security staff that a casino has

00:48:39.105 --> 00:48:45.826
So I was arrested at DEF CON in 2002 by the hotel security guards, but I don't

00:48:45.826 --> 00:48:50.493
know who ordered it, I guess a goon, probably Priest ordered it, and I ended

00:48:50.493 --> 00:48:55.137
up in the Alexis Park jail, which is very roomy, it was kind of a Bacchanalian,

00:48:55.137 --> 00:48:59.260
Mediterranean motif, there were grape leaves on the walls and things like that.

00:48:59.260 --> 00:49:00.537
There's no bars or anything like that.

00:49:00.787 --> 00:49:04.229
And since it was a non-gambling hotel you could do whatever you want, wherever

00:49:04.229 --> 00:49:06.969
you want, because you didn't have to be an adult.

00:49:07.219 --> 00:49:10.061
You used to make announcements at DEF CON that, "So and so's parents are

00:49:10.068 --> 00:49:15.444
looking for their runaway child," you know, who was 17 and was off at the con

00:49:15.694 --> 00:49:20.645
It was a different experience, everybody says "I wish it was the Alexis Park again."

00:49:20.645 --> 00:49:24.789
"Oh, I wish we were back at the Alexis Park." Honestly, I do too. I really liked the

00:49:24.789 --> 00:49:29.037
environment, the pool parties, the open atmosphere, we had the whole hotel.

00:49:29.074 --> 00:49:33.625
But then everybody forgets that, oh, the lines are ridiculous, all the rooms were overcrowded

00:49:33.625 --> 00:49:36.460
Oh, I couldn't do anything, it was awful.

00:49:36.460 --> 00:49:39.975
There was no room for speaking. I mean, people would make t-shirts about how

00:49:39.975 --> 00:49:42.651
terrible it was to get into the tent in the parking lot.

00:49:42.701 --> 00:49:48.175
So, it's better, it's more organized, yeah It's a little different, I wouldn't go back.

00:49:48.245 --> 00:49:54.491
For us to go back there now, we would have to cut this conference by 2/3.

00:49:54.991 --> 00:50:00.003
And, nostalgically, yes I look back on that time, and it was a great time.

00:50:00.004 --> 00:50:06.770
But we need a venue the size of the Rio, now, to support the size that we've become.

00:50:07.771 --> 00:50:11.875
But, that's probably the time, when, things seemed to settle in.

00:50:11.875 --> 00:50:16.612
That, you know, we've going something going here, and it's probably going to continue for a while.

00:50:16.613 --> 00:50:20.584
Well, and that's one the things. Obviously, the Alexis Park is near and dear to a lot of people because,

00:50:20.584 --> 00:50:24.321
this is, you know, how many years have we been away from the Alexis Park?

00:50:24.321 --> 00:50:30.627
And still, every year, somebody drives over there, walks into the front of the hotel,

00:50:30.627 --> 00:50:36.733
and steals the giant floor mat in the front, and brings it back to con. (laughing)

00:50:42.472 --> 00:50:45.342
A conference badge has three purposes.

00:50:47.778 --> 00:50:53.116
The first purpose is to show that you've paid for the conference. It's a security token.

00:50:55.519 --> 00:51:00.824
Number 2, it sets the level of your security, when you're within the conference.

00:51:01.922 --> 00:51:07.331
Third, I wanted the badges, that I created, to be something that helped brought people together.

00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:16.506
I intentionally designed the badges to cause people to have to look at each other, and talk to each other.

00:51:16.507 --> 00:51:22.479
To get to know somebody that they might not otherwise have known.

00:51:25.982 --> 00:51:30.187
It really is the interaction with the other people at DEF CON that makes DEF CON what it is.

00:51:30.187 --> 00:51:37.360
It's not the "oh, I have this uber, awesome, electronic circuit badge that does such and such."

00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:43.066
It's the people wearing the badge that matter. And, I think a lot of people miss that.

00:51:49.706 --> 00:51:55.679
The years where we've had an electronic badge, people show up wanting to do something with this awesome

00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:59.416
little piece of tech that they were just given for their entry fee.

00:52:01.952 --> 00:52:05.589
This is, we're helping... This is like an open badge solder session.

00:52:06.223 --> 00:52:08.959
We're helping people complete adding the connectors to their badges.

00:52:10.861 --> 00:52:15.699
We're not doing it for them, we're assisting them, and letting them do it themselves. Because that way they learn how to solder.

00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:19.803
So far, no one's done anything that hasn't been able to be fixed.

00:52:20.337 --> 00:52:25.475
So it's more of just learning, and, community learning project, I guess. Just doing the badges.

00:52:26.910 --> 00:52:32.716
Yes. First DEF CON. First time soldering. A lot of firsts this weekend.

00:52:34.050 --> 00:52:39.623
I really like to help other people just get better at what they do.

00:52:39.923 --> 00:52:42.926
Or to find an inspiration, something they're passionate about.

00:52:43.226 --> 00:52:46.463
And I like to help them progress along that path.

00:52:48.732 --> 00:52:50.233
Pretty much 90% of the people here have never soldered in their life.

00:52:51.167 --> 00:52:53.303
This is their first time. And that's the goal.

00:52:54.237 --> 00:52:56.440
It lets people, introduce people. Hey, it's not that scary. It's okay.

00:52:58.608 --> 00:53:03.213
We're here to guide you, and maybe, you'll do it in the future. And if not, you'll know you've done it. So it's one of those skills you'll have.

00:53:12.989 --> 00:53:19.162
Usually, the only people that are really getting it, are sequestered in their hotel room, just, going crazy on it.

00:53:24.100 --> 00:53:25.468
There are some people that counterfeit the badges every year.

00:53:26.369 --> 00:53:30.673
And we try to make the badges hard to counterfeit. And there are some people that spend a lot of time counterfeiting the badges.

00:53:31.741 --> 00:53:33.777
And, I think that's cool.

00:53:34.077 --> 00:53:39.049
If you can counterfeit the badge, and you can get past the guards, repeatedly, good for you. You probably deserve to get in. Right?

00:53:40.050 --> 00:53:42.620
That's what a hacking convention is all about.

00:53:42.621 --> 00:53:48.225
If you're good enough to fool everybody, you've put more energy into hacking that badge than we did, probably, producing it.

00:53:48.525 --> 00:53:49.559
So, good for you.

00:53:50.193 --> 00:53:57.820
They had the smiley face, you know, skull and crossbones, the basic logo for the con.

00:53:57.934 --> 00:54:02.405
And I think their first design flaw was, same PCB board, different colors.

00:54:03.606 --> 00:54:05.208
So you had people that went out and spray painted them. And things like that.

00:54:05.354 --> 00:54:12.082
Well, the absolute worst thing to do is to step into the goon SOC (Security Operations Center) with your cute, little red badge, and claim that you're a goon.

00:54:12.382 --> 00:54:16.319
Because we all know who we are. And once the door closes, you're ours.

00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:28.798
(music playing)

00:54:28.799 --> 00:54:35.138
And so it was a space where I felt more at home, where I didn't have to explain anything to anybody

00:54:35.839 --> 00:54:37.274
than any other context I'd ever been in.

00:54:40.209 --> 00:54:42.512
Real hackers are incredible.

00:54:43.513 --> 00:54:49.512
They take nothing for granted, and they look at things to see how they can be combined to make something new.

00:54:49.986 --> 00:54:55.291
And hackers really have a interesting, innovative, creative way, the best of them,

00:54:55.292 --> 00:55:02.564
of looking at all sorts of problems.. that a normal person wouldn't know how to do.

00:55:02.565 --> 00:55:05.434
And being fearless in the face of ambiguity;

00:55:05.435 --> 00:55:10.105
holding multiple representations of reality simultaneously, in their minds,

00:55:10.106 --> 00:55:12.709
even though they may be contradictory, and conflicting...

00:55:13.109 --> 00:55:17.180
And holding them there, lightly, while you explore which ones are a best fit for now,

00:55:17.848 --> 00:55:19.816
to the sensory data coming into society...

00:55:21.151 --> 00:55:24.721
You know, Feynman, great physicist, he said "The interesting fact is the anomalous fact."

00:55:25.021 --> 00:55:26.957
Emphasize both fact, and anomaly.

00:55:27.590 --> 00:55:31.261
Because it says there's a whole cornerstone here of another way of looking at things,

00:55:32.062 --> 00:55:33.129
that we're missing.

00:55:33.430 --> 00:55:37.567
Well, that's what hackers are looking for. And that's why I've taken to it so.

00:55:38.435 --> 00:55:44.074
Because the edge where new realities are appearing, and normals don't see them at first...

00:55:45.142 --> 00:55:49.913
But hackers are looking for them. They're kind of the little homunculus, inside the machine.

00:55:51.981 --> 00:55:54.684
When I come here, I don't have to explain anything, to anybody.

00:55:54.785 --> 00:55:54.855
my point of view, or my point of reference.

00:55:54.856 --> 00:56:04.260
Or, why I said what I said. Or, what was ironic. Or, or, what was meant straight up.

00:56:05.556 --> 00:56:06.496
Because people just kinda get it.

00:56:07.664 --> 00:56:09.532
And that's a terrific thing.

00:56:29.018 --> 00:56:34.024
(music playing)

00:56:34.824 --> 00:56:39.095
Probably our signature event, is Capture the Flag.

00:56:54.945 --> 00:56:57.467
When you go to DEF CON, and walk through the Capture the Flag area,

00:56:58.515 --> 00:57:02.519
you're seeing some of the best of the best teams that are out there.

00:57:03.286 --> 00:57:08.091
Well, this is really, this is the Wimbledon, this is the place around the world where it all comes together.

00:57:09.359 --> 00:57:16.199
What strikes me isn't in the room. It's the fact that there were a couple thousand people competing, from around the world, to get into that room.

00:57:17.834 --> 00:57:20.970
Some of those guys, that travel from like South Korea, or from the Middle East, to do CTF...

00:57:21.604 --> 00:57:25.675
they came thousands of miles, and are not going to sleep for three days.

00:57:26.409 --> 00:57:30.547
To participate in one game, at one event, that happens once a year.

00:57:31.648 --> 00:57:32.949
And that's what amazes me.

00:57:34.450 --> 00:57:37.120
It's about a bunch of different teams, getting together on a big network,

00:57:37.620 --> 00:57:40.557
trying to steal each other's stuff, in essence.

00:57:46.863 --> 00:57:47.831
Capture the Flag has been there since the beginning.

00:57:49.032 --> 00:57:53.169
And, really, from a hacker perspective, it's the type of thing that you think of,

00:57:53.170 --> 00:57:55.538
"Hey, how do I take over this guy's computer?"

00:57:56.439 --> 00:58:00.176
Don't miss any con where you can sit down at a laptop and make the network work, and start breaking things.

00:58:06.616 --> 00:58:10.000
(music playing)

00:58:10.654 --> 00:58:13.232
So, Crash and Compile is a programming contest, crossed with a drinking game.

00:58:13.323 --> 00:58:14.457
What could possibly go wrong?

00:58:14.458 --> 00:58:18.094
If you're familar with the ACM style programming contests;

00:58:18.428 --> 00:58:20.697
you're given a challenge, a word problem, you know?

00:58:20.897 --> 00:58:24.334
Write a program, that takes this kind of input and generates that kind of output.

00:58:24.624 --> 00:58:27.270
Or some arbitrary word problem.

00:58:28.304 --> 00:58:31.274
And you start coding. And you're coding along, you're coding along,

00:58:32.275 --> 00:58:34.978
and then you say, "I think I'm gonna test something," and you try and compile it.

00:58:35.712 --> 00:58:36.079
And it doesn't compile. You take a drink.

00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:40.316
If it compiles, but doesn't run, you take a drink.

00:58:41.384 --> 00:58:43.019
If it runs, but doesn't produce the right output, you take a drink.

00:58:43.319 --> 00:58:45.922
Okay, you can see how this could degrade very quickly.

00:58:46.923 --> 00:58:54.297
After 45 minutes, any points that are not awarded, or that have not already been awarded to competing teams get awarded to Team Distraction.

00:58:55.765 --> 00:58:58.167
The team with the most points at the end of the night goes home with a Black Badge.

00:59:00.570 --> 00:59:04.274
No, Team Distraction does not qualify for a Black Badge, unfortunately.

00:59:07.443 --> 00:59:11.314
And you're coding? No. I am part of Team Distraction.

00:59:11.614 --> 00:59:18.988
Our first goal is make sure that they get enough water, and they don't drink too much.

00:59:19.689 --> 00:59:22.959
But then, of course, you know, we have to distract them from their coding,

00:59:23.426 --> 00:59:38.140
and kinda like mess them up, and, you know, just, distract them a little.

00:59:38.141 --> 00:59:45.114
Does everyone have a beer? (affirmation from the contestants) Let's rephrase that. Who doesn't have a beer?

00:59:50.653 --> 00:59:52.889
Are we there yet? We're there. Okay.

00:59:56.760 --> 01:00:01.099
Any other questions? No? Groovy. Let's go program.

01:00:01.100 --> 01:00:03.300
Brilliant. Let's go program.

01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:17.000
(singing)

01:00:19.200 --> 01:00:33.600
(background noise)

01:00:35.000 --> 01:01:04.000
(music playing)

01:01:06.200 --> 01:01:10.900
Gotta energize the crowd. I gotta set the pace, set the tone. And then I have

01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:14.900
to say something outrageous pretty damn quickly, gotta insult somebody quickly.

01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:20.100
The show's begun and I'm not really aware of much of anything else for the

01:01:20.200 --> 01:01:27.700
next couple of hours. I want the audience engaged within 10, 15 seconds.

01:01:27.800 --> 01:01:29.900
I want to have that dialogue.

01:01:30.700 --> 01:01:36.900
"Copyright lawyers mean this, by I.P." [buzzer goes off] "Win or Lose!"

01:01:37.100 --> 01:01:40.600
"What is intellectual property?" - "What is intellectual property is correct!"

01:01:41.700 --> 01:01:47.700
You can piss this crowd off very easily. So, you get your feedback very very quickly

01:01:47.800 --> 01:01:49.700
as to whether you're doing a good job or a bad job.

01:01:51.600 --> 01:01:55.800
Jeff and I had talked, and he says "I really wanna notch up the 20th, I wanna go out

01:01:55.900 --> 01:02:01.600
with a bang, and I wanna do all these crazy things." And it was "COOL!"

01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:13.800
"The final category is Beer." (cheers)

01:02:14.300 --> 01:02:21.800
I think that this audience, probably 50% bigger than last year. So that would put

01:02:21.900 --> 01:02:31.800
that crowd, I'm guessing, in the 2,500 range, something like that. But this one was huge.

01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:43.590
We'll see you tomorrow night, for the final final final round of Hacker Jeopardy, DEF CON 20.

01:02:44.500 --> 01:03:51.400
(music playing)

01:03:53.700 --> 01:03:58.200
Common experiences at DEF CON include... I don't remember.

01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:06.300
Meaning that if you have a good con you probably have no recollection of what

01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:07.900
actually happened.

01:04:08.500 --> 01:04:17.900
(music playing)

01:04:37.000 --> 01:05:02.100
(music playing)

01:05:03.500 --> 01:05:09.300
If you've never been, don't base your assumptions off what you've read or heard.

01:05:10.700 --> 01:05:14.400
At this point especially, DEF CON is something you just have to experience.

01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:19.600
DEF CON is not a convention, it's a meta-convention. But there's so many smaller

01:05:19.700 --> 01:05:26.300
events, gatherings, meet-ups, projects, that it's become a group of other smaller conferences.

01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:32.100
There are other aspects, other facets of the con, that are completely

01:05:32.200 --> 01:05:37.900
different then what you have heard, thought of, expect or even dreamt are possible.

01:05:41.400 --> 01:05:45.600
There's people you've known from internet stuff, only through that, and you come from a small

01:05:45.700 --> 01:05:49.900
town, right, you don't know anybody, and you have this weird stuff you're into. And then you go to DEF CON,

01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:53.500
And that's where you meet the people, right? And it's beautiful. Just hangin' out,

01:05:53.600 --> 01:05:58.700
the conversations. It's the place. DEF CON is the place.

01:06:03.700 --> 01:06:09.300
So they change periodically. And so the fire marshall you had last year may not be

01:06:09.400 --> 01:06:18.300
the fire marshall...Oh, I think that's... the attorney. "Hello? Hey, OK, we'll let you in."

01:06:20.100 --> 01:06:25.100
I can think of a couple of things he might have done, ya know, that I wished he hadn't have done.

01:06:25.200 --> 01:06:28.300
I can think of one.

01:06:28.950 --> 01:06:38.000
When we started, it was very clear that Jeff was younger, and he was way smarter then me,

01:06:38.150 --> 01:06:42.800
but in my opinion, he had no street sense, which essentially just meant that he didn't

01:06:42.900 --> 01:06:48.200
know what the ramifications could be from a law standpoint on some of the stuff we

01:06:48.300 --> 01:06:53.900
were dealing with. You know, it's really not property damage stuff. We, you know,

01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:58.000
that, we can do something about. You can liquidate that, you can price it, you

01:06:58.100 --> 01:07:03.200
can figure it out. I mean, we've had lawsuits, we've dealt with big major

01:07:03.300 --> 01:07:10.400
battles with me versus eight lawyers from Cisco for about 2 years. You know,

01:07:10.500 --> 01:07:14.800
it's got these players that can get involved that aren't really attached to DEF CON that

01:07:14.900 --> 01:07:20.600
could put DEF CON at massive risk for government intervention, heavy duty

01:07:20.700 --> 01:07:21.700
lawsuit intervention.

01:07:22.400 --> 01:07:25.800
People want to come to DEF CON, which is fine, that's what DEF CON, Jeff likes it, I think.

01:07:25.900 --> 01:07:30.700
They come to DEF CON, they're like "Hey man, I wanna step on the toes of

01:07:30.800 --> 01:07:38.500
"fill in the blank" mondo, master, master of the universe, aggressive company.

01:07:38.600 --> 01:07:46.200
"I wanna come to DEF CON and piss them off, what do you think?" And it certainly isn't

01:07:46.300 --> 01:07:54.130
boring when somebody says "Yeah, I'm gonna shut down, ya know, huge Corporation X."

01:07:55.000 --> 01:07:59.500
So there's problems the public knows about, and there's problems that never see the light of day.

01:07:59.600 --> 01:08:04.200
Or hopefully never see the light of day. So we've had a little bit on both sides.

01:08:04.300 --> 01:08:12.900
Nearly dodged lawsuits, those kinds of things. We had one at

01:08:13.000 --> 01:08:21.600
the Alexis Park where there was a federal grand jury we heard about that was

01:08:21.700 --> 01:08:26.600
investigating DEF CON and they were asking for all the room reservation, credit card

01:08:26.700 --> 01:08:33.800
info on everybody who attended DEF CON. Luckily we are cash only, so there's no

01:08:33.899 --> 01:08:40.000
records to seize from us. So as the organization we were fine, but the hotel

01:08:40.100 --> 01:08:47.600
and vendors in the area, they were getting their records taken, seized, and they're

01:08:47.700 --> 01:08:50.700
performing some investigations. In the end, nothing came of it. The grand jury

01:08:50.800 --> 01:08:56.200
as far as I know never did anything with it. But, that's one of those things

01:08:56.300 --> 01:09:00.700
where for years I was telling people, there's a reason why you don't process

01:09:00.800 --> 01:09:06.500
credit cards and keep records. And after years of doing that, I was vindicated

01:09:06.600 --> 01:09:10.000
in my paranoia. Because that would have been a huge legal battle to deal with

01:09:10.100 --> 01:09:15.000
all of that. To try and turn it over, not turn it over. So there's battles

01:09:15.100 --> 01:09:17.300
like that that never see the light of day. And this is the first time I've ever

01:09:17.399 --> 01:09:19.000
actually talked about it.

01:09:20.649 --> 01:09:26.895
INTERVIEWER: Describe Jeff Moss. - Describe Jeff Moss. Oh...

01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:35.500
Jeff is a friend. He's an interesting guy. He travels a lot. He's very intelligent.

01:09:36.899 --> 01:09:42.370
Jeff's awesome. He is legitimately a good person. He's absolutely brilliant.

01:09:42.500 --> 01:09:47.100
And in my opinion, if we didn't have Jeff, this community and this culture

01:09:47.200 --> 01:09:48.684
would have never grown to what it is.

01:09:49.500 --> 01:09:53.800
Without Jeff, DEF CON never would have made it this far. I believe that

01:09:53.899 --> 01:09:58.000
without DEF CON goons, it also never would have made it this far, but Jeff

01:09:58.100 --> 01:09:59.917
is the glue. You know, he's the glue that brought us this far.

01:09:59.918 --> 01:10:03.557
This grew from a very small conference where the staff was

01:10:03.859 --> 01:10:07.799
equal to, or more than the attendees, to a crowd that

01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:12.651
regularly we've had to move venues every couple years, because we keep growing so much.

01:10:12.651 --> 01:10:17.502
Yet, that continual continuity, and the spirit of DEF CON

01:10:17.502 --> 01:10:20.836
if you will, is maintained because of Jeff.

01:10:20.837 --> 01:10:24.777
He's overly concerned about what the DEF CON attendees think about the conference.

01:10:24.778 --> 01:10:27.506
He wants them to have a good experience, he really does.

01:10:27.506 --> 01:10:30.537
Jeff cares about DEF CON, so much!

01:10:30.538 --> 01:10:34.781
He's a bit shy, as I'm sure everybody has gotten to figure out over the years.

01:10:34.782 --> 01:10:38.722
It's difficult to get a hold of him sometimes at DEF CON, and difficult to grab him.

01:10:38.723 --> 01:10:42.663
You know, he's like most hackers. He's not overly social, and he's got that quiet side,

01:10:42.664 --> 01:10:46.907
a little withdrawn. He's only got so much he's willing to give you.

01:10:46.908 --> 01:10:51.151
He is a really personable, kind-hearted guy.

01:10:51.152 --> 01:10:55.699
He is managing chaos, and

01:10:55.700 --> 01:10:59.943
it is not an easy job, and he's a very smart guy, and it's very difficult job,

01:10:59.944 --> 01:11:04.187
and fortunately, he's also surrounded himself with people who can help him do that.

01:11:04.188 --> 01:11:09.644
(Music)

01:11:09.645 --> 01:11:14.798
In the early days, there wasn't a formal structure.

01:11:14.799 --> 01:11:19.649
Kind of in the beginning, we all were security goons

01:11:19.650 --> 01:11:25.106
to a certain extent, and whether is was official or unofficial there was a group of people that helped

01:11:25.107 --> 01:11:30.566
control of what was going on, and it wasn't until later years, that, as the attendance went up, that we had

01:11:30.867 --> 01:11:34.807
to deal with more formal roles.

01:11:34.808 --> 01:11:40.267
Rule number four. Do listen to the Goons. If a red shirt tells you to do something, do it.

01:11:40.872 --> 01:11:46.331
The goons aren't trying to ruin your fun. They're just trying to make DEF CON an enjoyable experience for everyone.

01:11:47.845 --> 01:11:52.998
I mean, without the Goons, I think there are a lot of things that would just fall apart really fast.

01:11:52.999 --> 01:11:54.817
And they have in the past.

01:11:54.818 --> 01:12:00.880
It may have been after DEF CON 9, it was really a rough year. I don't exactly remember why, but we had growth spurts.

01:12:00.881 --> 01:12:06.034
Where at the Alexis Park, they're physically breaking up fights. They're picking drunks up out of the

01:12:06.035 --> 01:12:10.885
rose bushes. They're doing CPR on people. The Goons at the early Alexis Park

01:12:10.886 --> 01:12:16.039
days that everybody misses, were actually Goons.

01:12:16.040 --> 01:12:21.193
There have been some serious cardiac events, that I participated in, but we have had no deaths.

01:12:21.194 --> 01:12:26.044
We were really beat up after 9, and we had discussions then as

01:12:26.045 --> 01:12:30.895
to, "You know, do we call it quits at 10? We've had a good run. Ten years, that's substantial...

01:12:30.896 --> 01:12:35.746
Maybe we'll do it one more and see how we feel."

01:12:35.747 --> 01:12:41.506
And we did 10, and 10 turned out to be pretty good, and thankfully, we didn't quit.

01:12:41.507 --> 01:12:45.447
All of the various teams have kind of occurred organically.

01:12:45.448 --> 01:12:50.298
There's a lot of compartmentalization, that I don't think people realize.

01:12:50.299 --> 01:12:55.149
Everyone has their own responsibilities that they're dealing with.

01:12:55.150 --> 01:13:00.000
We've spent a lot of time over the past year setting up for this convention.

01:13:00.001 --> 01:13:05.154
It is truly a labor of love. We are all volunteers.

01:13:05.155 --> 01:13:10.915
We don't do this for glory, we don't do this for anything other than we want you guys to have a good time.

01:13:10.916 --> 01:13:15.766
When I'm not at DEF CON, we're talking about DEF CON. The entire year, we're planning for DEF CON.

01:13:15.767 --> 01:13:20.313
We're thinking about DEF CON. We're telling DEF CON stories.

01:13:20.314 --> 01:13:23.345
Because we live it. We love it.

01:13:23.346 --> 01:13:26.983
You don't become a Goon. You're born a Goon.

01:13:26.984 --> 01:13:32.137
The joke is that we work for shirts. We get a couple of shirts to go and

01:13:32.138 --> 01:13:37.325
work for twelve hour days plus at DEF CON, plus all the volunteer time throughout the rest of the year.

01:13:37.595 --> 01:13:42.782
A couple of our guys have worn pedometers over the years, and the average shift is between fifteen and twenty-five miles.

01:13:43.052 --> 01:13:48.205
So, we tend to, especially newer people, tell them to wear the right footwear,

01:13:48.206 --> 01:13:53.393
make sure you always have water on you. Never walk into a situation where you

01:13:53.663 --> 01:13:54.850
don't have a plan.

01:13:54.875 --> 01:13:59.725
One of the things I like to say is: "At DEF CON, I live my life in the gutter, so you don't have to."

01:13:59.726 --> 01:14:04.576
But, you're right, things that people don't see, that's our DEF CON. That's the Security Goons' DEF CON.

01:14:04.577 --> 01:14:09.427
I'm glad to do anything I can for my fellow Goons.

01:14:09.428 --> 01:14:14.581
Any time, any day.

01:14:14.582 --> 01:14:30.347
(Music)

01:14:30.348 --> 01:14:35.501
I was creating a contest that would be something I would want to participate in.

01:14:35.502 --> 01:14:40.689
I used to say, magic is dead in the world, so I'm gonna create some for everybody else.

01:14:41.262 --> 01:14:46.752
(Music)

01:14:47.022 --> 01:14:52.478
I have to design cryptography and puzzles for an incredibly brilliant audience

01:14:52.479 --> 01:14:57.969
that is designed to be solved in three days. That's not too easy, not too hard.

01:15:01.575 --> 01:15:06.425
So now, that became my personal contest. My challenge to myself is

01:15:06.426 --> 01:15:11.882
how do I continue to entertain some of the smartest people in the world and keep their brains occupied for three

01:15:11.883 --> 01:15:17.036
days when a lot of them are smarter than I am, and can figure this stuff out.

01:15:17.037 --> 01:15:20.371
(Music)

01:15:20.372 --> 01:15:28.254
We've mapped out this challenge. The first thing we got on this challenge, was a writer with two keywords. "We program" and "Under Foot.

01:15:28.255 --> 01:15:33.744
This referred to an insane sentence in the program. It's on page forty.

01:15:34.015 --> 01:15:39.504
"Underfoot" represents the third oval, the third

01:15:39.775 --> 01:15:45.231
sticker in the convention center, and those two things are two markers we

01:15:45.232 --> 01:15:50.721
have to write on a piece of paper and give to 1057. Probably one of the biggest compliments I've ever been paid was

01:15:50.992 --> 01:15:56.448
and I've heard this a couple of times, "I go to DEF CON to compete in your contest."

01:15:56.449 --> 01:16:01.905
And that's, I mean I don't know what anyone else could say, I'm very

01:16:01.906 --> 01:16:07.362
flattered. I'm shocked, because it's just stupid stuff that I think up throughout the year and then

01:16:07.363 --> 01:16:12.819
I put it together, and try to make it a coherent flowing contest

01:16:12.820 --> 01:16:18.276
to the best of my ability.

01:16:18.277 --> 01:16:27.675
(Music)

01:16:27.676 --> 01:16:36.804
We're inside the Lockpick Village at DEF CON 20, and this is where we teach people how to pick locks for entertainment and sport reasons.

01:16:38.288 --> 01:16:43.744
Most technical people seem to have a rather strange curiosity about how

01:16:43.745 --> 01:16:49.201
things work, and one of the things that lead us into that is how locks work.

01:16:49.202 --> 01:16:54.961
We can teach most people within five or ten minutes how to start picking locks, and

01:16:54.962 --> 01:17:00.721
then some of them will stay in here and at the end of the day we throw them out, and

01:17:00.722 --> 01:17:06.481
they'll say, "Oh, I didn't go to the talks I was supposed to.", because they'd been sitting in here picking

01:17:06.482 --> 01:17:12.275
locks all day long.

01:17:13.455 --> 01:17:29.860
(Music)

01:17:30.130 --> 01:17:44.682
(Music)

01:17:44.683 --> 01:17:58.898
(Music)

01:17:58.899 --> 01:18:35.619
(Music)

01:18:37.675 --> 01:18:44.681
Most DEF CON talks start with a great deal of alcohol and end with a great deal of alcohol, at least the good ones

01:18:44.951 --> 01:18:51.923
I've noticed.

01:18:51.924 --> 01:18:58.896
The aircraft tracking stuff came out of the fact that I bought an app

01:18:58.897 --> 01:19:05.904
for a couple bucks that let me point my cell phone at the contrail and look at the information

01:19:06.173 --> 01:19:13.145
for that particular flight was overlaid on the camera. As I started digging, I found more and more issues.

01:19:13.146 --> 01:19:20.118
Just, you know, out of my own curiosity, I thought "How does this work?". I found all these issues, and it got really scary because,

01:19:20.119 --> 01:19:26.788
I speak a lot, and I go to a whole bunch of conferences. You know, this stuff can start

01:19:26.789 --> 01:19:33.761
getting really dangerous, so I was thinking, "Even if I don't have all the answers, I need to get this answer out."

01:19:33.762 --> 01:19:37.434
(Music)

01:19:38.006 --> 01:19:43.159
Really, I've done enough of these things and know the crowd that

01:19:43.160 --> 01:19:48.652
I don't get jitters or nerves or anything like that.

01:19:51.649 --> 01:19:57.141
It's the sort of thing that I'm running through some of the slides in my talk, some of the jokes I may have constructed.

01:19:57.409 --> 01:20:02.901
for a particular slide or a particular moment.

01:20:03.000 --> 01:20:07.000
But mostly, it's just "OK, does my laptop work? Are the slides up?

01:20:07.000 --> 01:20:11.000
Does the projector work? Yep. OK. All good."

01:20:13.500 --> 01:20:16.000
Thank you.

01:20:17.250 --> 01:20:22.000
So, generally what I say is that when I get bored, bad things happen.

01:20:24.000 --> 01:20:29.000
At the Las Vegas Airport here, you've got a flight landing every 90 seconds.

01:20:29.000 --> 01:20:32.000
That's an awful lot of metal, money and people moving around. How does this all

01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:37.000
work? How does this all fit together? You always hear about air traffic control,

01:20:37.000 --> 01:20:40.000
but does anybody really know how it works anymore?

01:20:44.000 --> 01:20:48.500
I think that the audience is looking to learn something new.

01:20:48.500 --> 01:20:54.000
They're looking for an entertaining discussion on interesting technologies that at the

01:20:54.000 --> 01:20:57.000
end of the day are kind of important.

01:21:00.000 --> 01:21:06.000
So increasingly my talks have gone into Why is the Internet such an insecure place?

01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:11.500
What do we have to do, not in theory, not to satisfy academic stuff, but like, real

01:21:11.500 --> 01:21:17.000
world, what do we need to change to make this thing secure?

01:21:19.000 --> 01:21:24.000
All year, all my best research comes here. All year I work on "What am I gonna bring

01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:28.000
to DEF CON for the next year" "What am I gonna do for this particular event?"

01:21:28.000 --> 01:21:34.250
Because it's where it began for me. My career started because I started speaking

01:21:34.250 --> 01:21:40.000
out here in Vegas. I started coming out to DEF CON and showing off these toys.

01:21:41.500 --> 01:21:46.000
I'll be honest, a lot of my talks have had nothing to do with security, it's just

01:21:46.000 --> 01:21:48.000
like "Yo, look what I can make THAT thing do!"

01:21:49.500 --> 01:21:57.000
The presentation was just facilitating dialog with this industry because unfortunately with

01:21:57.000 --> 01:22:01.500
something like a major vulnerability in air traffic control, there's no phone number to

01:22:01.500 --> 01:22:08.000
call in for that and say "Hey, can we talk about this?" That doesn't exist.

01:22:10.000 --> 01:22:16.000
It was the first time I dealt with something that was really serious. The entire talk

01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:22.250
was theory. I had no facilities to actually test anything in a real world

01:22:22.250 --> 01:22:26.000
scenario because obviously I don't want to be screwing with a plane while in flight.

01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:35.000
(Now the attacker is one step away between an evaluation and attacker controlled code.)

01:22:35.000 --> 01:22:40.000
My talks are stories and that's the one thing that I advise everyone else

01:22:40.000 --> 01:22:47.000
giving a speech. You're telling a story to your friends about some cool stuff.

01:22:49.000 --> 01:22:53.000
I have hundreds of hours of research that I have to tie together into a

01:22:53.000 --> 01:22:56.000
coherent explanation of the world.

01:23:00.000 --> 01:23:04.000
(applause)

01:23:04.250 --> 01:23:10.000
I was expecting a response and oh boy, did I get it. I was talking to people

01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:15.000
from major airlines, people with different airplane manufacturers, air traffic controllers,

01:23:15.000 --> 01:23:20.000
trainers, I've got a pocket full of business cards after this that I have to go through.

01:23:27.500 --> 01:23:33.000
This was me loudly knocking on the door and saying "You might have a problem

01:23:33.000 --> 01:23:35.000
here. Let's talk about this."

01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:46.000
Over the years, I've gotten relatively high profile and I'm very happy and

01:23:46.000 --> 01:23:53.000
honored for all the obligations that come along with being a high profile

01:23:53.000 --> 01:24:02.000
individual, but I do miss being able to just wander through the crowds and see cool

01:24:02.000 --> 01:24:08.000
stuff and watch cool talks. I've got a lot of stuff I've gotta do; it's a lot of

01:24:08.000 --> 01:24:16.000
obligations. I'm not complaining. This is a tremendous amount of fun that I get to

01:24:16.000 --> 01:24:22.000
have. I build all these crazy toys and fill Penn and Teller and show them off.

01:24:23.000 --> 01:24:27.000
The best moment for me at DEF CON is always going to be at 4 in the morning when

01:24:27.000 --> 01:24:31.000
someone's showing off some really silly stunt that they built. And maybe it's

01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:36.000
good and maybe it's not, but man they love it and they're enjoying talking about it.

01:24:42.000 --> 01:24:54.000
(music playing)

01:24:55.500 --> 01:25:01.000
The community has matured from DEF CON 4 and 5 dramatically. When I was coming to

01:25:01.000 --> 01:25:07.000
DEF CON 4 and DEF CON 5 and seeing people in an official capacity, I'm now seeing

01:25:07.000 --> 01:25:12.000
them bring their children and in some cases their grandchildren to DEF CON 20.

01:25:12.500 --> 01:25:17.750
I say "Great, bring your kids to DEF CON" because there is no better community to

01:25:17.750 --> 01:25:22.000
have your kids around than the people that go to DEF CON. There's every

01:25:22.000 --> 01:25:27.000
opportunity for them to learn something and as long as you're a good

01:25:27.000 --> 01:25:33.000
parent, as long as you're a good hacker, anything that they see or experience you

01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:35.000
can lead them on that path.

01:25:39.000 --> 01:25:43.000
Yep, so this is plastic. So, this is just a long string of plastic. So it goes into

01:25:43.000 --> 01:25:46.500
this, this thing melts it. There's a little heater in here that melts it, and

01:25:46.500 --> 01:25:50.000
then it squirts it out as the machine... (Just like toothpaste?)

01:25:50.000 --> 01:25:53.000
Yeah, it's like toothpaste.

01:25:54.500 --> 01:25:58.500
This is the second time for DEF CON Kids and the second time that I've been involved

01:25:58.500 --> 01:26:06.250
and DEF CON Kids. Last year sort of was just a smaller way to try to get kids and their

01:26:06.250 --> 01:26:11.000
parents involved in the hacker community and basically teach kids about lockpicking

01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:16.250
and soldering and hardware hacking and privacy issues and law enforcement issues,

01:26:16.250 --> 01:26:20.000
just all of the things that kids don't normally learn in school.

01:26:21.000 --> 01:26:26.250
Speaking at DEF CON Kids and working with these kids is almost more exciting to me,

01:26:26.250 --> 01:26:31.000
or just as exciting if not more, than giving a talk at DEF CON and having an

01:26:31.000 --> 01:26:35.500
opportunity to directly influence these kids. It's like an immediate... you can see

01:26:35.500 --> 01:26:39.000
it in their eyes, it's this immediate understanding once you show them something.

01:26:39.000 --> 01:26:42.000
They get it, and that can change their life.

01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:49.750
I would like to start programming, I would like to start learning the languages

01:26:49.750 --> 01:26:54.000
that they mentioned, for example, I would like to start learning python.

01:26:54.500 --> 01:27:00.000
What we were thinking of doing is adding some little extra pieces onto here and

01:27:00.000 --> 01:27:05.000
solder those on and make some other cool programming with the light and make a

01:27:05.000 --> 01:27:06.750
cool little light show.

01:27:07.500 --> 01:27:10.500
The kids love all these speakers and they're the best speakers...

01:27:11.000 --> 01:27:17.000
and I couldn't believe that DEF CON Kids had these same top speakers addressing

01:27:17.000 --> 01:27:19.000
our children.

01:27:19.000 --> 01:27:26.000
We're supportive, helpful, and just want the kids to gain this love of what

01:27:26.000 --> 01:27:30.500
they're passionate about and sharing it with the world and it's wonderful.

01:27:32.000 --> 01:27:36.000
This is kind of for the kids to really inspire them to get involved in

01:27:36.000 --> 01:27:39.500
the hacking community and start doing some things. We've had the privilege to

01:27:39.500 --> 01:27:44.000
hear from some really great guys and the kids are excited to go back and start doing things.

01:27:44.000 --> 01:27:48.000
It's been a lot of fun so far. Even though it's only day 1 and

01:27:48.000 --> 01:27:52.000
I think we've only had about 4 or 5 hours of sleep, it's been awesome.

01:27:53.000 --> 01:27:57.000
Well, most interested in, I think, is hacking. I kind of want to be a hacker

01:27:57.000 --> 01:28:00.000
when I get older, you know?

01:28:00.250 --> 01:28:03.000
I would definitely call myself a hacker.

01:28:07.000 --> 01:28:12.000
So this is the year that your daughter, your eldest, goes to DEF CON, right?

01:28:13.000 --> 01:28:19.000
I plan on bringing my 14 year old to CON. This year, hopefully, will be her first

01:28:19.000 --> 01:28:26.000
year, so I'm hoping to drag her out and show her, not just what I have experienced

01:28:26.000 --> 01:28:34.250
over the years, but frankly, where she came from. Because at a basic level I have to

01:28:34.250 --> 01:28:39.000
explain to my kids that I met your mom at DEF CON 4.

01:28:40.500 --> 01:28:45.000
I've asked Dark Tangent for child support and he's like "hahahha.. Who are you?"

01:28:46.500 --> 01:28:49.000
That's how it went, really.

01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:55.000
I don't expect Jeff to know who I am. After all these years, I mean, I've been

01:28:55.000 --> 01:29:04.000
going to his shows for 16 years, and that's OK. I feel OK with him not knowing me

01:29:04.000 --> 01:29:10.000
personally. Because frankly, the dude's got like 20,000 people that some of them expect

01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:13.000
him to know them personally. And I'm OK with that.

01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:17.000
If there's a message you want to say to him what would it be?

01:29:19.250 --> 01:29:21.000
Thank you, Jeff.

01:29:26.250 --> 01:29:30.000
After Capture the Flag I thought that the Scavenger Hunt embodied the hacker

01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:32.000
spirit the most.

01:29:32.500 --> 01:29:36.000
No, No, AAAAAAHH!!

01:29:36.750 --> 01:29:39.000
It's a tin foil swim suit.

01:29:40.000 --> 01:29:42.000
Good Job! (laughter)

01:29:45.000 --> 01:29:47.000
(laughter)

01:29:49.000 --> 01:29:52.000
They're going to suck my blood.

01:29:53.000 --> 01:29:57.000
Hi, How are you? Good, I'm here to get my daughter.

01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:04.500
We've got a huge list of items and or tasks for the teams to complete.

01:30:04.750 --> 01:30:07.250
By the end of the day or the end of the weekend

01:30:07.500 --> 01:30:09.000
the team with the most points wins.

01:30:09.250 --> 01:30:11.750
There's a lot of activity at the tables constantly

01:30:12.000 --> 01:30:15.500
because the list is things to get and things to do and

01:30:15.750 --> 01:30:18.250
things to perform and that sort of thing we get a lot of...

01:30:18.500 --> 01:30:21.000
-find, make... meet. -Activity all around the table.

01:30:21.250 --> 01:30:27.750
We want people to have a good time and ending up in jail generally is not a good time.

01:30:27.751 --> 01:30:34.251
While there may have been things that are a grey area, or could end up being illegal activty...

01:30:34.252 --> 01:30:39.752
I think we come from a community who... knows not to get caught.

01:30:42.002 --> 01:30:45.502
We don't condone fire or stealing mostly...

01:30:45.503 --> 01:30:48.252
Umm... [orgasmic screaming]

01:30:48.502 --> 01:30:53.002
[music playing]

01:31:00.252 --> 01:31:05.752
And I don't know how someone sourced it or found it but, the... head of a cow.

01:31:09.002 --> 01:31:15.502
We put on the scavenger hunt list a live chicken, and I think we got six or something.

01:31:15.752 --> 01:31:20.252
Scavenger hunt winners of the past go on to become goons

01:31:20.502 --> 01:31:24.502
and contest creators and contest organizers and speakers and staff.

01:31:24.752 --> 01:31:31.252
because you have so much social interaction it really engrains you into the community.

01:31:35.502 --> 01:31:41.002
[music playing]

01:33:06.252 --> 01:33:08.752
Oh, on the weekend of DEF CON...

01:33:09.002 --> 01:33:12.502
I think last year we booked 14 shows.

01:33:12.752 --> 01:33:20.252
I issued the ultimatum I'm going to book less shows... and it ends up being more.

01:33:20.502 --> 01:33:27.002
[music playing]

01:33:47.252 --> 01:33:51.752
The thing about DEF CON that I find incredibly fascinating

01:33:52.002 --> 01:33:56.502
is that, yeah.. a lot of these basement dwelling guys that basically...

01:33:56.752 --> 01:34:01.252
are getting tan off of an LCD monitor party the hardest out of anybody I've ever met...

01:34:02.502 --> 01:34:06.002
Like.. Serious rockstars here..

01:34:06.252 --> 01:34:13.752
Everybody just fueled by alchohol and Ballz and any type of A.D.H.D. medication

01:34:14.002 --> 01:34:15.502
they can get their hands on...

01:34:20.752 --> 01:34:27.252
[music playing]

01:35:35.502 --> 01:35:39.002
[Applause]

01:35:39.252 --> 01:35:42.752
Hey, so we are going to kick this thing off...

01:35:43.002 --> 01:35:46.502
we've got really a lot of things to talk about but we've tried to organize it...

01:35:46.752 --> 01:35:50.252
So... This is the 20th year.

01:35:50.502 --> 01:35:53.002
How many people believe that?

01:35:53.252 --> 01:35:55.752
[applause] Yeah...

01:35:56.002 --> 01:36:02.002
So I'm just curious by show of hands.. How many people was this your first DEF CON?

01:36:02.252 --> 01:36:06.752
So we scared away everybody else... [laughter]

01:36:07.002 --> 01:36:11.502
We've got guys that have been helping out for 19 years...

01:36:11.752 --> 01:36:16.252
That's amazing, I would just never have expected that.

01:36:16.502 --> 01:36:22.002
So, I guess I'm most proud of producing something, having a group of people support me...

01:36:22.252 --> 01:36:25.752
that's still doing stuff that people care about.

01:36:26.002 --> 01:36:28.502
So... what I want to do is we want to

01:36:28.752 --> 01:36:31.252
hand it over to Zac Franken

01:36:31.502 --> 01:36:34.502
who's been the head of operations for I don't know...

01:36:34.752 --> 01:36:36.252
closer to 18 years.

01:36:36.502 --> 01:36:40.002
Let's hear a round of applause... Thanks. [Applause]

01:36:43.252 --> 01:36:44.752
Thank you DEF CON 20!

01:36:45.002 --> 01:36:54.502
DEF CON, as Jeff has already said, couldn't exist with out a lot of effort from a lot of people.

01:36:54.752 --> 01:36:59.252
And, in the early years I used to name them all...

01:36:59.502 --> 01:37:02.002
but now there's 300 of them.

01:37:02.252 --> 01:37:04.752
I've trimmed it slightly.

01:37:07.500 --> 01:37:16.000
So, while DEF CON is running, basically I'm almost certainly not having a good time...

01:37:16.250 --> 01:37:20.750
Mainly because I just run around and put out fires.

01:37:21.000 --> 01:37:26.750
And of course my friend Jeff who, threw this shindig 20 years ago..

01:37:27.000 --> 01:37:28.500
I can't believe it's still fucking going... but it is...

01:37:28.750 --> 01:37:33.550
I can't believe there's so many people here that had a great time!

01:37:33.800 --> 01:37:38.300
and.. most of all.. thanks to you.. It's you guys that make DEF CON!

01:37:38.550 --> 01:37:43.050
Thank you so much! [Applause]

01:37:46.300 --> 01:37:52.800
DEF CON is not something that happens for us for 3 days in July or August every year...

01:37:53.050 --> 01:37:56.900
it's almost something that we think about and work on and do stuff for

01:37:57.150 --> 01:37:58.650
all year round.

01:37:58.900 --> 01:38:02.400
It becomes almost a part of your identity and I know that sounds kind of weird...

01:38:03.850 --> 01:38:09.150
it's when everything comes together... I know why I stayed up all night...

01:38:09.400 --> 01:38:13.200
so many nights in a row...

01:38:14.450 --> 01:38:22.950
There have been moments where you sit back and you say "That is just absolutely amazing."

01:38:23.200 --> 01:38:25.950
That someone was able to think of that, or several someone's were able to think about that...

01:38:26.200 --> 01:38:27.700
and do that.

01:38:29.500 --> 01:38:34.800
I still love, just how excited people are there... and the fact that you helped...

01:38:35.050 --> 01:38:37.250
to make it happen for them.

01:38:37.500 --> 01:38:42.500
I said to Deviant, it was a really great challenge. Tt was fun to compete and...

01:38:42.750 --> 01:38:48.250
DEF CON was great! Thank you everybody! [Applause]

01:38:48.500 --> 01:38:51.955
This community, is misunderstood by the media...

01:38:53.200 --> 01:38:56.500
and unfortunately, the media is the message out to

01:38:56.750 --> 01:39:00.000
the non geek, non hacker community.

01:39:00.250 --> 01:39:05.539
But the thing that I think came out perhaps this year more than any other year...

01:39:07.836 --> 01:39:12.246
So, I just want to tell you what we've been doing for the last 3 years.

01:39:12.496 --> 01:39:17.850
Year 1 we had 95 people sign up for the Be the Match bone marrow donor registry.

01:39:18.100 --> 01:39:25.459
year 2 was 161 and this year we got 232 people to sign up.

01:39:25.709 --> 01:39:32.333
In addition to that we raised over 3,300 dollars as well.

01:39:32.583 --> 01:39:39.450
More than any other year this one was really about love. With the blood raising, the cancer stuff,

01:39:39.700 --> 01:39:44.078
the huge amount of money for E.F.F... I mean even just saying it or thinking it gives me kind of goose bumps.

01:39:44.328 --> 01:39:47.033
This one was, 20 years of love.

01:39:49.750 --> 01:39:58.875
Ok, we've got some numbers for you. The info booth raised 58 dollars, the firearms simulator 3,620 dollars,

01:40:01.197 --> 01:40:03.658
Mohawks...$4,333

01:40:03.797 --> 01:40:07.977
Eddie Mize, was the artist with the great t-shirts you can still get outside

01:40:07.977 --> 01:40:11.655
of the contest area, $3,500

01:40:11.905 --> 01:40:20.957
The Summit, 1,500...789 dollars... $15,000...$15,789!

01:40:20.957 --> 01:40:26.091
(applause)

01:40:26.092 --> 01:40:33.217
And Hacker Jeopardy, for a total of $30,380...so thank you,

01:40:33.217 --> 01:40:34.935
thank you very much! (applause)

01:40:36.491 --> 01:40:42.143
(laughs) So I'm going to go over here

01:40:42.443 --> 01:40:48.635
So...you have to understand, he's made this promise for what, 3 years in a row now?

01:40:48.635 --> 01:40:54.533
This is beautiful, we have been waiting for this, time for Jeff to get his hawk.

01:40:54.533 --> 01:41:15.036
(cheering) (applause)

01:41:15.036 --> 01:41:19.354
Now, Jeff failed to mention that he has like 6 different meetings with incredibly

01:41:19.354 --> 01:41:24.648
important people around the world in the next couple of weeks

01:41:24.648 --> 01:41:29.734
You know, it's actually really nice fulfilling a promise (laughs), cause now

01:41:29.734 --> 01:41:31.453
they can't bug me (laughs)

01:41:31.453 --> 01:41:31.753
True!

01:41:31.753 --> 01:41:35.539
That's true, now, but I haven't decided, don't I have to donate money to the EFF

01:41:35.539 --> 01:41:36.874
for this? (applause)

01:41:36.874 --> 01:41:41.321
Of course! (applause) (cheering)

01:41:41.321 --> 01:41:49.518
I was thinking maybe $10,000 (cheering) (laughs)

01:41:49.518 --> 01:41:57.447
What do you think? That's probably a pretty good thing...(laughs) (cheering)

01:41:57.482 --> 01:41:59.269
(cheering) (applause)

01:41:59.547 --> 01:42:05.152
Thank you very much, see you next year! Woo!

01:42:05.152 --> 01:42:13.722
(cheering) (applause)

01:42:13.722 --> 01:42:18.125
I joke with Jeff that he could cancel it tomorrow, like legitimately

01:42:18.125 --> 01:42:20.934
cancel it, say "Screw it, I'm done. I'm going to do something else with my time."

01:42:20.934 --> 01:42:25.718
And DEF CON would still happen, it would continue to happen. Everybody would just

01:42:25.718 --> 01:42:28.828
go to Vegas anyways. Eventually people would start talking about stuff. Eventually

01:42:28.828 --> 01:42:32.173
they'd say, "Let's go down to the bar and take over this empty conference room and

01:42:32.173 --> 01:42:35.517
talk about it." And DEF CON would continue to happen organically, probably

01:42:35.517 --> 01:42:38.535
for years after we just walked away from it.

01:42:38.535 --> 01:42:44.387
So, for those of you who aren't in the conference business, what happens is you

01:42:44.387 --> 01:42:50.470
sign hotel contracts for years in the future. You have to look into the future

01:42:50.470 --> 01:42:54.069
and decide, "Ok, 2 years from now, are we going to be burned out? Are people

01:42:54.069 --> 01:42:56.402
even want to come to DEF CON 2 years in the future or 3 years in the future?"

01:42:56.402 --> 01:43:01.100
Because you have to sign these hotel contracts years in advance, and so who

01:43:01.100 --> 01:43:04.924
could you hand this off to? Or who would want to take on that responsibility?

01:43:04.924 --> 01:43:11.763
And I think the conclusion I've come to is, I'd probably just stop.

01:43:13.028 --> 01:43:17.277
You know, and I'd...people could continue the organization, continue, they'd just

01:43:17.277 --> 01:43:21.492
name it something different. I'd give them all my projectors, it would carry on

01:43:21.492 --> 01:43:24.905
maybe under a different name, but it probably wouldn't carry on under the

01:43:24.905 --> 01:43:30.385
DEF CON name. The only scenario I figured that out was if I get hit by a bus and I die

01:43:30.385 --> 01:43:34.227
and I want to have the final DEF CON, huge party, though somebody would have to

01:43:34.227 --> 01:43:38.152
plan that, cause I wouldn't be around.

01:43:39.800 --> 01:43:54.890
(music playing)

01:43:55.790 --> 01:44:00.037
I don't know why, every year, honestly. Every year after DEF CON, I think half

01:44:00.037 --> 01:44:05.889
the senior staff says never again. All of us, we're all, "Yeah me too, me too."

01:44:06.139 --> 01:44:12.042
And then all your friends, I have friends all over the world that DEF CON for sure

01:44:12.292 --> 01:44:18.683
they show up to. And, you get wound up, you get excited for it, you look forward

01:44:18.933 --> 01:44:28.595
to the experience again. So ... yeah, we forget how much it hurt.

01:44:29.641 --> 01:44:37.827
Yeah, I do it, I've been doing it for a long time. You know, my second, she's 10

01:44:38.077 --> 01:44:41.287
years younger than I am, she's been doing it for 5 years. She's probably due for

01:44:41.537 --> 01:44:46.452
her shot to do it, and I can be the old grey beard that shows up at DEF CON, just

01:44:46.702 --> 01:44:50.556
sits in the corner has a beer, and reminisces.

01:44:53.733 --> 01:44:59.480
I can honestly say that without that first DEF CON, and without, you know, shaking

01:44:59.730 --> 01:45:04.228
hands and meeting people, becoming a Goon, I wouldn't be the position that I'm

01:45:04.478 --> 01:45:07.665
in now, and I wouldn't have the career and the means to support my family that

01:45:07.915 --> 01:45:09.870
I do now.

01:45:10.120 --> 01:45:13.191
It's outside of my imagination, missing a DEF CON.

01:45:13.441 --> 01:45:18.044
When I started, it was like, "Oh my God, I found my home!" and that was, that's

01:45:18.294 --> 01:45:19.484
kind of where it started, for me.

01:45:19.734 --> 01:45:25.394
Once I got to the first one, I was hooked from that point on.

01:45:25.644 --> 01:45:29.247
It's a degenerate family reunion.

01:45:30.234 --> 01:45:34.553
These people are my family. It's a family reunion, you gotta come every year and

01:45:34.803 --> 01:45:35.645
see everyone.

01:45:35.895 --> 01:45:42.344
Basically, if you go once, you're hooked. DEF CON is, it's an experience like

01:45:42.594 --> 01:45:47.115
nothing else. It's great people and a great atmosphere, and I think from the

01:45:47.365 --> 01:45:50.366
time that I went, I knew that I would always go, that I would find a way to

01:45:50.616 --> 01:45:55.858
make sure that I was there every year, and 13 years later I'm still going.

01:45:56.108 --> 01:46:02.453
These people aren't just my friends, they're my family, you know, and I genuinely

01:46:02.703 --> 01:46:05.773
genuinely love them.

01:46:08.467 --> 01:48:43.401
(music playing)

01:48:43.651 --> 01:48:48.522
I don't believe it's appropriate to talk about that on camera. (laughs)

01:48:48.972 --> 01:48:50.821
Ah, I can't discuss that.

01:48:52.062 --> 01:48:56.996
I'll tell the story, but I don't think we should actually ... (yeah)

01:48:57.246 --> 01:49:00.050
No, no naming names, no naming names (laughing)

01:49:00.300 --> 01:49:02.651
We'll tell you off-camera (laughing)

01:49:02.901 --> 01:49:07.886
I can neither confirm nor deny that. (Yeah) Sorry.

01:49:08.654 --> 01:49:11.497
All right! Edit that out... (laughing)

01:49:11.747 --> 01:49:16.339
Nothing I'm going to admit on camera at this time, and 'til the statutes of

01:49:16.589 --> 01:49:20.274
limitations run out. And then I'm happy to admit it later on, that's once we've

01:49:20.524 --> 01:49:22.259
you know, checked with the lawyers and all that stuff.

01:49:23.827 --> 01:49:29.307
I think half of the experiences of my life that I attribute back to ...

01:49:29.557 --> 01:49:33.371
happened at DEF CON. I don't know how many of them I can talk about, I probably

01:49:33.621 --> 01:49:41.138
can't talk about any of them. I really would like to, but, ahh, I ...

01:49:41.388 --> 01:50:10.349
(music playing)

01:50:11.000 --> 01:50:27.000
Transcription by: Anch, Phorkus, AlxRogan, Medic, Panadero, and Russr