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(music playing)

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What the fuck, dude!

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What the fuck!

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Oh shit! There we go!

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(music playing)

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The history.

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I had been running the Dark Tangent System,

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that was the name of my bulletin board system.

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The bulletin board was known around the world, we were on international FIDO networks.

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And one of those networks called Platinum NET out of Canada, was going away.

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He was shutting it down.

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I was the biggest node, I had the most users, and I distributed to the United States.

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And he wanted to throw a party, a going away party for all of his Platinum NET users.

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But he didn't want to do it in Canada, and all of his users were in the states,

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and so we were talking, he says "Well you should do it, we should work together."

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And I said "Great. Let's do it in Vegas." That makes the most sense, cheap airfare.

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And he said "Sounds good." And I mean, this happened over the course of less than a week.

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It was really brief.

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And then all of a sudden he disappeared, Platinum NET went down,

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and all these years, 20 years later, I never heard from the guy again.

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I can't even remember his name, it's been so long.

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So when he disappeared, I had already started planning to do this going away party

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for Platinum NET.

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So instead, I invited all my networks and it went from being a going away party to, a party.

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There was HoHoCon, there was an XCon. There was PUMPCON, Summercon.

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But there was no real west coast con. So we figured, OK...

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So it ended up being DEF CON.

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The first one, there was a flier that went out and that kind of circulated

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around on some of the sites, and, and I think that's how I came across it initially.

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I'm assuming it was because of a book I wrote, or maybe my congressional testimony

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I don't know, but somehow he had contacted me to come out and speak.

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I actually didn't wanna go to the first DEF CON.

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I did not want to go to the first DEF CON. A number of my friends were going.

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They were trying to get me to go, they kept telling me it was going to be fun

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and I kept thinking to myself, "I've never been to Las Vegas before",

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and you know, I used to go to BBS user meets, and well, a lot of them

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are pretty lame and I thought to myself

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"OK, this is just going to be a BBS user meet... in Vegas."

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Jeff contacted me somehow, said "You wanna come out to Vegas?"

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I said, "Well, I don't like Vegas." "Come out and speak and there's

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a bunch of people, Phil Zimmerman, and a couple of other folks," and...

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DEF CON 1.

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And I had a blast. I had so much fun.

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It felt we were part of something that was really kinda legitimized

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because there was this event around it, you know, it wasn't just,

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you know, random people that you might have known or heard, or it wasn't

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somebody (in the phone phreak world) on the end of a toll-free

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loop around that you called at midnight. "Hey, who's there?"

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So, I ended up meeting a lot of people, some of whom I'm still friends with to this day...out of all of that.

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And I remember, after the first DEF CON was over, and I was back home, and I

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was decompressing, somebody wrote me on UUCP in my email. Wrote me an

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email and said "Hey, that was great. When are you doing it again?"

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Until I had gotten that email, I had never thought of doing it again.

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And then I thought, "You know, I could probably make this better. I could

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change this, I could..." and then that started it, that was all, game over from there.

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It was, every year, what can I make better, what went wrong, how do I fix it.

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And that geek sort of fix-it mentality kicks in, and you're always trying to improve it.

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It's sort of like this challenge you'll never solve, but you keep wanting to make it better.

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(music playing)

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The people who missed a few years. the differences between their experiences

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is going to be pretty radically different.

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DEF CON 1 was around 100 people, and we expect roughly 15,000 for DEF CON 20.

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We work nonstop. I haven't seen 4th of July in like 7 years.

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It's crazy that DEF CON, you can label it as a hobby, takes so much time.

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Because it seems like pretty much from the moment DEF CON ends until the time

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that we're spinning it up again, we're busy.

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You know, technically I retired 2 years ago, but I can't give it up,

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because it's such a part of me. I'm giving back to the same culture

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that spawned me.

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DEF CON for the last 10 years, especially, has been a very big part of my life.

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It consumes most of my free time. DEF CON starts, for me, the day after DEF CON is over,

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for the next year.

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It's going to be amazing. We have so many surprises planned for the attendees.

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It's going to be remarkable. This is going to be a really, really special year.

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If you're sleeping, you're doing it wrong.

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A lot of people who are hardcore DEF CON attendees, or staff, they negotiate

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when they change jobs. "That's fine, everything's good, but I need to take,

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you know, 2 weeks off."

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I never thought that my party would be a job employment prerequisite.

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(music playing)

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I am not kidding, I am expecting another well orchestrated, well-oiled machine,

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coming together and producing this amazing gathering of geeks.

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No kidding, it's what we do. We come together and we do the HELL out of it.

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And I expect it to happen this year.

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(music playing)

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There's absolutely a difference between driving and flying.

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When Utah group, for example, used to go down to DEF CON, years and years

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and years ago, there was a whole process where basically we gathered at this

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restaurant called "D's", or we called it "Freaky D's", at like 2am,

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and basically 20 or 30 of us piled into the restaurant and we'd have our caravan

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of cars all set together, and that was our group of people.

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There are some hijinks that I can't even imagine mentioning on the documentary,

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that can happen on a long 9 hour drive from the Denver area to Las Vegas.

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When you're driving, to get there, especially from the west coast,

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you have to drive through the middle of fucking nowhere.

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And it certainly adds to the experience when you roll in, and it's just after

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sunrise, or just about sunset, you really have no idea what time it is, and there's

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Sin City, and of course you're playing "Viva Las Vegas" by the Dead Kennedys

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or something like that. It does add to the experience I think.

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(music playing)

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"Actually, here comes the Hack Bus now." "Pretty awesome!"

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It kind of blows my mind that everyone's so excited about going to a BBQ

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six miles away from the con that have to rent a taxi for, or go to the store and get food.

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I don't know. I just feel like the BBQ is this misfit love child of DEF CON,

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because everyone's, "There's this thing that happens over there and they're grilling alligator and elk and all this crazy meat."

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"Why can't we ever go? Where is it?" And that kind of adds to the mystery and fun of it.

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(Music playing)

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Man, did I never expect that to become something a thousand people strong, now.

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(Music Playing)

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To me that shows an awesome community and spirit, and an effort of

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"I want to see my friends and hang out with them and I wanna do something simple, like eat some food."

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You know, it's not at the con, there's no crazy music, it's just a BBQ.

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Ever since I was in town around DEF CON 10 or 11 you see those signs in the

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airport, "Come Shoot a Machine Gun." Which, you know, is fine for me,

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I've done that, but a lot of my friends said, "Man, I'd love to do that!"

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Well, I said, let's just go out in the desert, I'm sure we can find a nice group rate, and

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and we'll shoot out in a sand pit, and everyone had a blast, and they said

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"Boy! This was great, you want to do this again?"

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So now, there's just this well known, public shooting spot,

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way out on the Lovell Canyon Rd, where anyone can go and

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shoot what they want, as long as they police up the area. And we use it and it's

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again, much like DEF CON itself, getting popular and growing.

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Now we have canopies and tables rented, that I arrange. There's a small per head fee,

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just to cover that. We had a hundred people on the line last year. We've got damn near that

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many registered this year. We're going to stay safe and see what we can make happen!

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(Gun shots, talking)

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Can everyone hear me, over the reports, over the berm? (Yes, yes mumbles, Alright)

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All firearms are always what? Loaded! They are always loaded!

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Nothing is ever an unloaded firearm. You always point the firearm where?

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where? In a safe direction. In a safe direction.

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Yes. The key point being, not just being what is your target, but what is beyond it!

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The hacker community, you can never put a single hat on anybody, but there's a libertarian undercurrent to

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a lot of our membership, so being able to treat guns as, well, that's this piece of equipment

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if you use it the right way, it's great. It percolates through most minds.

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So, you get the occasional raised eyebrow, but half the time that's the person who's, like,

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"I'm gonna go see exactly what you think is so fun," and they're out there shooting a cannon, or

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an automatic rifle, and they say, "Boy, I get this."

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(Bullets plinking, ricochets, music, cannon booms.)

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I think it was the year when it was at the Aladdin, and we'd forgotten to sort of clean up our

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room, or we didn't think the maid was gonna show up as early as they did, and we had gone off to breakfast, and we came back

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and the maid had been in the room, and cleaned the room, and organized all of the drugs!

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So there's a little pile of acid, and a little pile of ecstacy, and some other pills, and they're

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in nice, neat little piles, and everybody's like, "Well, I guess things are different in Las Vegas."

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You've got to put the convention in a 24 hour city.

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You know, it's got to be like a New York, or Vegas, or maybe a San Francisco, because

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hackers get bored, and there's got to be something for them to do. And I saw what happened when you had a lot of bored hackers running around.

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You know, a lot of activities in the computer underground

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would happen after midnight. That's just the way it is. So, you know,

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the fact that people can move around, and not be noticed as much being

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a group moving around at midnight, that kind of added to the appeal.

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I'm big on privacy. Nevada still respects people's personal privacy.

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You know, your hotel room is considered your domicile.

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It sounded fun... you know, just a bunch of computer people, it just seemed like

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my group was in Vegas and it sounded like a really, really fun time.

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So, that, you know, whole underworld connotation of it all,

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was very attractive to me.

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So I feel like there's gonna be a stream of people really dedicated, like, "We're gonna be first! We're gonna be first in line!"

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I wanna make sure I get a badge. That was my biggest concern since my first DEF CON, and I wanna make sure I walk away with a badge.

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We're all DEF CON virgins, we gotta pop that DEF CON cherry. Get those badges!

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INTERVIEWER: How many hours do you have before you get your badges?

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At least nine hours now?

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(Background noise)

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Ok, and that's $20. So, that's $20 plus $20 tip for you.

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Thank you very much! Yes, we drink. Good! What are we drinking? Stop recording, please!

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We've got pizza. Pizza is GOOD! Alright.

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Jet-Lag has sunk in. It looks like he's using a pizza box for a pillow.

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We will not abandon our posts.

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(Music and background noise.)

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(Music, background noise, and crowd control.)

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(Music and background noise.)

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This is my first DEF CON badge! INTERVIEWER: Now what made you decided you were going to come to DEF CON?

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My husband's work decided to send him, and I started going through all of the videos

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that they had for DEF CON 19, and I started looking at that and going, "Oh, this is really cool!"

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This is the 20th DEF CON, and I've been wanting to do it for years, and it was just one of those things that just sort of lined up,

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all the moons lined up perfectly.

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Definitely heard a lot about the con. It's a somewhat affordable con, and there's lots of technical discussions.

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A whole bunch of really smart people that probably know more than I do, most of them, so I hope to learn something.

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You know, an opportunity to hang out with those people who really know what's going on.

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You know, it's too enticing to miss out on.

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I thought this would be an amazing place to just meet really intelligent people.

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So, now I'm here and I'm really excited!

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To meet a lot of interesting people and learn a lot and have a lot of fun at once.

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It's kind of, you know, a big congregation of

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people who live anonymously online, get to actually

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socialize in person, and not have to worry about,

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you know, revealing their identity.

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Well, I've read all kinds of dire warnings about using anything

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that's potential hackable, and nearly anything is hackable.

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I was told to take the battery out of my phone.

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You know, I've got a check list sort of in my mind, you know, kilt,

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colored hair, drinking before 10am I haven't seen quite just yet...

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Every single device in the world has some kind of computer in it, and they all

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have vulnerabilities one way or another and this is information of

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what those vulnerabilities could be and how to fix them and improve it for the future.

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INTERVIEWER: Are you the teacher? - Yes. INTERVIEWER: You are the teacher, and this is your first DEF CON?

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- Yes. INTERVIEWER: And you thought to take a pack of neophyte students into

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Las Vegas to go to a hacking conference? - Yes. INTERVIEWER: Do you have tenure?

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Rule Number One: Follow the 3-2-1 rule. DAILY.

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And please bear in mind, these are minimums,

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at a minimum, three hours of sleep.

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Two meals. One shower.

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By tomorrow afternoon, the pungent and stank aroma

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of many DEF CON attendees will waft through the air and hit you like a Mack Truck.

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So, remember, you plus deodorant equals everybody wins!

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(Laughter)

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I, like many people here, will not remember your real name.

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There are lots of Steves, Jeffs, Chrises, and Bills, but maybe only one, maybe two, with your unique handle.

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Hopefully, you've picked a good and unique handle to avoid conflicts in the namespace.

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(Music)

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Create a good handle for yourself, before someone creates it for you.

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So I've got a question. Who here is from other countries?

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WOW. (applause)

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That's impressive, thank you for coming all the way to join us, you guys,

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that's awesome that you came out.

216
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DEF CON is truly an event and a conference where you get out

217
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what you put into it.

218
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DEF CON is the one time a year where everything that we do year-round

219
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actually becomes physical.

220
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All these people that you've met in IRC, All these people you've been chatting to,

221
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All these people you've been reading their research, following their work,

222
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looking at the different things they're publishing... They're here.

223
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Walk up to them, tell them that you like their work, and buy them a beer.

224
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They'll probably be your best friend.

225
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That's one of the biggest things about this crowd you've got to really swallow

226
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is the fact we're all super, super approachable.

227
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You can be a wallflower here and still get a lot out of it, but you're not gonna

228
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get your 200 bucks worth, frankly.

229
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You're gonna have to interact, work with people, get to know people,

230
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go party with people.

231
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If you don't know something, be proud of that. Be like "I don't know this.

232
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Can you please teach me? Can you please educate me and train me?"

233
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This crowd loves spinning people up.

234
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Take the time to go in and learn from these people. They're geniuses,

235
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truly geniuses, and some of the best in the world in whatever it is

236
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that they're presenting or working with. So, take advantage of it, you guys, OK?

237
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Alright, the next rule is one that basically says

238
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"The media is not your friend. Don't trust them." (laughter)

239
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INTERVIEWER: What do you think is the number 1 thing people misunderstand

240
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when they show up to DEF CON?

241
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That it's a den of illegal activity and you're gonna come learn how to do really

242
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neat, illegal, black hat, gonna get in trouble if the FBI shows up at your door

243
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and you should show up with your ski mask on just so no one can know your identity.

244
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INTERVIEWER: What is it actually then?

245
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It's a publicly funded, private party for a bunch of really cool people.

246
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Yeah, our reputation is ... it's out there, but people are proud of it

247
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and I'm probably the only one who tries to go around and go "It wasn't quite like that,

248
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it was sorta like this."

249
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I don't think people understand how much goes into creating a show of this size.

250
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DEF CON looks like this big amorphous jellyfish of people everywhere, but what I hadn't

251
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realized is that there is really a lot of stuff that goes on on the back end

252
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to keep it running like clockwork.

253
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That's what makes DEF CON so exciting. It's super organic, is the way I see it.

254
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If you're inflexible, it doesn't work with DEF CON because there's too many

255
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people and you'll just break, and that's just the reality of it.

256
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I always joke for me it's an opportunity to spend 4 days out of the year

257
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not caring about computers or computer security.

258
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Everybody's Christmas, New Year's, Birthday, Anniversary, wrapped up into one, for hackers.

259
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It's an experience that's not like anything that anybody has described because it's

260
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kind of something you can make what you want out of it.

261
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You can show up and you can just go to talks and you can sit there and get that

262
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out of the conference or you can show up and just party. You can show up and hang

263
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out in your hotel room with a bunch of friends. When it comes down to it,

264
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you're the driver of the experience. It's not a pony show where you can just, you know,

265
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:05,000
sit down in a seat and let it unfold before you. The more active you become

266
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inside the con the more fun you can have.

267
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For me, I think it's more social.

268
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Mainly, for me, it's just a lot of close friends that I get to meet once a year

269
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because of the diversity of where they all live in the United States.

270
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So this is kind of like a meeting point.

271
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Go out there, be social, just run into people and say "hi" and just strike up a

272
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conversation because you will meet interesting people here.

273
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It's fantastic, everybody is friendly. I can sit down and talk to anybody and I

274
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just ask them "what do you do" and they're happy to tell me about what kind of

275
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employment they do or the hobbies that they're in. It's just striking up

276
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conversations. That's my personal favorite.

277
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It's a combination of the people who I run into at DEF CON and just sort of the atmosphere.

278
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It's like a giant party that doesn't want to end but there is a lot of

279
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really smart people in one place and it's just, there is really no other place like it.

280
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(music playing)

281
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(music playing)

282
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The first qualification, if you will, to be a vendor at DEF CON is "how are you

283
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,000
providing back to the hacker community at large." A lot of money goes through

284
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:37,000
there. It's kind of staggering. One thing that we try and do is most of these

285
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,000
guys, most of the vendors if you walk around that room, this isn't their primary

286
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,000
business. These are people that are in the community. Take a look at these guys.

287
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They're only doing this this time of year and it's only to provide something to the

288
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,000
community that they think is neat. Those are the kind of folks that

289
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,000
definitely get a priority when I'm looking through applications.

290
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(music playing)

291
00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:22,500
INTERVIEWER: It looks like you're doing things right.

292
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:27,000
Ok, is this on? Oh, Boy! Ok...

293
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,500
What I've tried to do with the whole hacking community is raise the level

294
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:35,000
of discourse, that's the thing is, to bring information, to make it

295
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,000
accessible and widely dispersed at a reasonable price and make people happy.

296
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,500
And if i put a smile on their face it's like "Wow, really, that's a great price and

297
00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:47,000
I get that too?" That's good. I don't need every last dollar. What are you gonna do

298
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,000
with dollars anyway? They're just numbers.

299
00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:53,500
Our main job actually is to create mayhem. That's actually what we've been asked by

300
00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:56,500
the management. Make sure we create a lot of mayhem. We actually have official

301
00:27:56,500 --> 00:28:02,000
DEF CON 8 posters from years ago that we found, so, we're not selling them,

302
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,000
we're giving them away, but you have to convince us to give you one, and that

303
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:12,000
requires mayhem in the dealer's room of some sort that we don't officially support

304
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,000
but for some reason they end up with a poster. Who knew, right?

305
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:22,000
We are simplewifi.com. We are long range wireless made easy. We custom make all of

306
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:27,500
our antennas in Miami, Florida, so if you want to go creating a hotspot around your

307
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:32,500
whole neighborhood or you have that guy with an unfortunately has an open signal and

308
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:36,500
you don't want to pay for Wi-Fi you can set your antenna pointing right at it,

309
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:39,000
grab that signal and you have Internet for free.

310
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:45,000
The people that want something one year that you didn't bring, invariably won't

311
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:50,000
want it next year. It's like everyone wanted network cables. Everyone wanted PIN card readers,

312
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:57,000
or prox card readers or mag stripe readers, encoders, decoders, you know,

313
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:03,000
it varies every year. And then everyone that leaves something behind, like

314
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,000
"We need a hub" It's like, OK...

315
00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:11,000
I only have 53 tables in total that can be sold. Some vendors are getting 2,

316
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:16,000
some vendors are getting 3 so you have to decide what's going to actually provide

317
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,500
the most benefit to the attendees, what are they actually gonna want to buy and

318
00:29:19,750 --> 00:29:26,000
we certainly have made mistakes in the past. For one thing....

319
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,000
It used to be we shouldn't have even called it the vendor area. There were a couple of years, and I

320
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,000
can't blame anybody but myself for this, where it should have been called the

321
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,000
"buy your t-shirts room." The only thing that was for sale in there was t-shirts.

322
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,750
You had 2 hardware vendors and 33 t-shirt vendors.

323
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:50,250
Hackers love their t-shirts. In a weird way, it's like a way to kind of express

324
00:29:50,250 --> 00:29:53,000
your identity.

325
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,000
I think we all do that through our shirts. It's a way when you're

326
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,500
walking down the hall at DEF CON or any

327
00:29:58,501 --> 00:30:01,500
other conference or at work or wherever

328
00:30:01,501 --> 00:30:04,500
for people to kind of get an idea of who you are.

329
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:09,000
So yeah, I mean the T-shirt aspect of it is certainly important.

330
00:30:09,250 --> 00:30:11,750
This is the one place I can wear all my T-shirts...

331
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,500
and people will know what it is. - Yeah, people get it.

332
00:30:17,585 --> 00:30:23,585
There's something about that like, cinematic hacker.

333
00:30:23,835 --> 00:30:30,335
That's both goofy and inspiring and...

334
00:30:30,585 --> 00:30:35,085
Like I still play up... There's this mystery around it.

335
00:30:35,335 --> 00:30:38,835
Oooh, Spooky Hackers... and, like there's this dark side to it..

336
00:30:39,085 --> 00:30:40,585
and I still think I play that up in the art.

337
00:30:40,835 --> 00:30:44,584
That I'm still intrigued... I still don't know all of what's going on...

338
00:30:44,585 --> 00:30:47,085
Like, I'm a maker... I'm not a hacker.

339
00:30:49,335 --> 00:30:51,135
So, I was a goon the first year and

340
00:30:51,385 --> 00:30:52,885
they stuck me in the info booth.

341
00:30:53,135 --> 00:30:56,135
And then, about half way through the first day Russ came over first and said...

342
00:30:56,385 --> 00:30:59,885
"Hey I want you to draw on my badge..."

343
00:31:00,135 --> 00:31:01,635
We had great big badges that Joe Grand did...

344
00:31:01,885 --> 00:31:03,385
..and so I drew on it and then...

345
00:31:03,635 --> 00:31:05,384
Pyr0 came over and said "Hey, draw on my badge."

346
00:31:05,385 --> 00:31:07,885
And then in like 10 minutes there was this line

347
00:31:07,885 --> 00:31:10,385
out the door of people like "Draw on my badge.."

348
00:31:10,635 --> 00:31:12,135
and so Russ came up with the idea...

349
00:31:12,385 --> 00:31:13,885
"Well, if you're going to draw on the badge...

350
00:31:14,135 --> 00:31:17,135
"Why don't you make them give $5 to EFF for every badge you draw on.

351
00:31:17,385 --> 00:31:18,885
and raise some money."

352
00:31:19,135 --> 00:31:21,135
So, like, laptops I'd charge $20 for EFF...

353
00:31:21,385 --> 00:31:24,385
and then it ended up with a pile of money for EFF like the first year.

354
00:31:24,635 --> 00:31:29,135
So then the second year they said "You're not going to be in the info booth.

355
00:31:29,136 --> 00:31:32,636
"You're going to have A booth and sell art and draw on things for people

356
00:31:32,637 --> 00:31:35,137
to raise money for EFF." And that's how that took off so...

357
00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:46,313
[music playing]

358
00:31:52,563 --> 00:31:57,063
You have to believe in what you're doing...

359
00:31:57,313 --> 00:31:59,313
and you have to believe that whatever you have

360
00:31:59,314 --> 00:32:03,064
is the hottest, coolest, newest, best thing...

361
00:32:03,314 --> 00:32:07,164
and that if you have any shred of doubt about what you're presenting...

362
00:32:07,414 --> 00:32:11,914
or if your hearts not 100 percent into it, the audience is going to pick up on that right away.

363
00:32:12,164 --> 00:32:13,664
And... tune out.

364
00:32:13,914 --> 00:32:18,414
That's the thing, I think the B.S. filter here at DEF CON is very, very strong.

365
00:32:18,664 --> 00:32:22,364
I think the talks and the speeches are absolutely important

366
00:32:22,614 --> 00:32:26,114
because it gives the world an opportunity for a very inexpensive price

367
00:32:26,364 --> 00:32:29,364
to be able to go learn from the absolute best in the world in this industry

368
00:32:29,614 --> 00:32:33,114
about the absolute bleeding cutting edge of technology...

369
00:32:38,900 --> 00:32:43,936
[music playing]

370
00:32:44,186 --> 00:32:49,686
It was between 300 and 400 submissions that came in for people that

371
00:32:49,936 --> 00:32:51,436
wanted to speak at DEF CON this year.

372
00:32:52,686 --> 00:32:57,186
Yeah, it was a rough, rough year just because of the number of quality submissions...

373
00:32:57,436 --> 00:33:01,936
There were some that any other year absolutely would have been accepted...

374
00:33:02,186 --> 00:33:06,686
I think because this is the 20th DEF CON and it's because people want to be

375
00:33:06,936 --> 00:33:09,936
a part of DEF CON 20... we got so many more submissions.

376
00:33:10,186 --> 00:33:14,686
And so many more quality submissions...

377
00:33:14,936 --> 00:33:22,436
DEF CON speakers are all different types. Especially this year you have... you have generals, and you have 15 year old kids...

378
00:33:22,437 --> 00:33:24,937
all of whom have something different to contribute.

379
00:33:25,187 --> 00:33:30,687
There's not really one thing you can say that unites a DEF CON speaker...

380
00:33:30,937 --> 00:33:35,437
except for their desire to present their ideas to an audience.

381
00:33:35,687 --> 00:33:39,187
[music playing]

382
00:33:45,437 --> 00:33:49,937
[applause]

383
00:33:55,204 --> 00:34:02,704
And we've got a really cool V.I.P. this year... Yup... Really Cool.

384
00:34:02,705 --> 00:34:06,300
They better show up. [laugh]

385
00:34:07,301 --> 00:34:11,801
The big celebrity speaker V.I.P. for this year at DEF CON,

386
00:34:12,051 --> 00:34:14,251
The director of the NSA and director of cyber command

387
00:34:14,252 --> 00:34:15,752
General Alexander.

388
00:34:15,752 --> 00:34:18,051
We've been trying to get somebody from the NSA

389
00:34:18,301 --> 00:34:20,801
high level to speak for... 10 years.

390
00:34:20,802 --> 00:34:23,551
and it just so happens that we finally get somebody.

391
00:34:23,801 --> 00:34:26,301
And it just happens to be our 20th year anniversary so...

392
00:34:26,551 --> 00:34:28,051
the timing just works out really well.

393
00:34:28,301 --> 00:34:30,801
And I know people are going to get all bent in a knot over it...

394
00:34:31,051 --> 00:34:33,051
It's going to be like the love-hate relationship...

395
00:34:33,301 --> 00:34:35,051
They're also going to be really interested in what he has to say...

396
00:34:35,052 --> 00:34:37,801
and at the same time be really fearful of the NSA.

397
00:34:39,051 --> 00:34:42,051
It's a milestone to see someone of his position and level

398
00:34:42,301 --> 00:34:46,801
come here and speak about security and hackers and those types of things.

399
00:34:48,051 --> 00:34:50,051
Jeff Moss made a valid call and he kind of said...

400
00:34:50,301 --> 00:34:52,801
"Look, you know, we have to interact with these people." you know.

401
00:34:53,051 --> 00:34:55,751
we have the technical skills and they're the ones calling the shots.

402
00:34:56,001 --> 00:34:58,501
so we've got to interact with them. and at the end of the day...

403
00:34:58,751 --> 00:35:00,251
we've got to educate them. ya know?

404
00:35:00,501 --> 00:35:02,250
Helloooo DEF CON!

405
00:35:02,251 --> 00:35:03,751
[applause]

406
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:12,400
Something I try to do with DEF CON is I want to

407
00:35:12,650 --> 00:35:15,150
expose you guys, from the very first DEF CON,

408
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,400
to people you don't normally see like...

409
00:35:17,650 --> 00:35:20,450
I'm sure you guys just don't hang out and have coffee with

410
00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:24,200
the General and, neither do I

411
00:35:24,450 --> 00:35:28,740
so to me it's really eye opening to understand the world from their view.

412
00:35:29,300 --> 00:35:32,800
Having the NSA here was a great unveiling of the support

413
00:35:33,050 --> 00:35:35,550
and I think a little bit of appreciation from the government

414
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,550
towards our community now, and a little bit more understanding

415
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,300
of the work we do, and the actual end goals of what we are trying to accomplish here.

416
00:35:43,550 --> 00:35:45,050
[applause]

417
00:35:45,300 --> 00:35:46,800
Thank you...

418
00:35:47,050 --> 00:35:50,550
It's an honor to be here. It's an honor and a privilege

419
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,300
to be here.

420
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:54,050
You know, one of the things I want to talk about

421
00:35:54,300 --> 00:35:57,300
is the Freedom domain. The Internet.

422
00:35:57,550 --> 00:36:00,050
And what we can all do to work on this,

423
00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:04,300
and so I've got about 6 hours of presentation and slides [audience laughs]

424
00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:08,050
that we'll cut down to some meaningful time for you.

425
00:36:08,300 --> 00:36:12,000
I think it's amazing and D.T. wouldn't believe you if you could

426
00:36:12,250 --> 00:36:13,750
go back in time and tell him that 20 years from now

427
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,500
you're gonna have an NSA general here talking to the group

428
00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:18,750
sort of as an ally.

429
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,700
Seeing people like General Alexander come down

430
00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:23,450
and meet with us hackers... it's just amazing.

431
00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:28,200
I've been in the hacking scene for over, what, 25 years now

432
00:36:28,450 --> 00:36:33,150
and I remember the days when we were just considered criminals

433
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,400
that no one wanted to integrate with, they didn't understand how

434
00:36:36,650 --> 00:36:39,150
a hacking ethos could be applied to things that weren't illegal.

435
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,900
And now...this completely legitimizes what we're doing.

436
00:36:43,150 --> 00:36:45,650
People want to see what we're doing and they want to hear

437
00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:48,400
about what we're doing, and they're realizing that we

438
00:36:48,650 --> 00:36:51,150
have a role to play in keeping the world's infrastructure safe

439
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:52,900
and keeping the government safe.

440
00:36:53,150 --> 00:36:54,650
And that... that's awesome.

441
00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:57,400
And there's a lot of things that are going on here.

442
00:36:57,650 --> 00:37:02,150
We can sit on the sidelines, and let others

443
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:03,900
who don't understand this space

444
00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:07,850
tell us what they're going to do, or we can help by

445
00:37:08,100 --> 00:37:11,600
educating and informing them on the best strategy going forward

446
00:37:11,850 --> 00:37:15,350
that benefits all of us and our nation.

447
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,100
And that's the real reason that I came here,

448
00:37:18,350 --> 00:37:19,850
to solicit your support.

449
00:37:20,213 --> 00:37:24,713
But on the other side we also have super privacy advocates,

450
00:37:24,963 --> 00:37:27,463
the E.F.F. is going to be right there next to them.

451
00:37:27,713 --> 00:37:30,213
And they're probably in a constant lawsuit with the N.S.A.

452
00:37:30,463 --> 00:37:32,963
so... we try to represent both sides.

453
00:37:33,213 --> 00:37:35,713
I mean, they're the ones that have been out there and

454
00:37:35,963 --> 00:37:39,463
helping when people try and do crazy laws

455
00:37:39,713 --> 00:37:43,413
that, you know, don't really understand the implications.

456
00:37:43,663 --> 00:37:48,363
The E.F.F. will step up and try and right the ship

457
00:37:48,613 --> 00:37:51,613
and make things good for everyone and

458
00:37:51,863 --> 00:37:53,363
we like to support them.

459
00:37:53,613 --> 00:37:55,813
And what I'm trying to do when I have these speakers

460
00:37:56,063 --> 00:37:58,563
is I'm trying to expose the audience to people they wouldn't normally

461
00:37:58,813 --> 00:38:01,313
come in contact with. It's not just always fun and games.

462
00:38:01,563 --> 00:38:04,063
hacking a system. There's a bigger world out there,

463
00:38:04,313 --> 00:38:05,813
and you're playing a part in it.

464
00:38:06,063 --> 00:38:07,563
A very important part.

465
00:38:07,813 --> 00:38:10,313
And if I didn't, I kind of think I'd be doing a disservice.

466
00:38:10,563 --> 00:38:14,063
It would be sort of like intentionally, I don't know, not aiming as high.

467
00:38:14,313 --> 00:38:18,813
So, if you don't like that speaker don't go to that talk.

468
00:38:19,063 --> 00:38:22,763
And I think that when you bring in not only our great talent here

469
00:38:23,013 --> 00:38:26,513
but those of our allies I think that's absolutely superb.

470
00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:30,463
All right, that brings this session to a close, so let's

471
00:38:30,713 --> 00:38:33,213
have a round of applause for General Alexander.

472
00:38:33,463 --> 00:38:37,963
[applause]

473
00:38:48,213 --> 00:38:53,713
[music playing]

474
00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:03,537
I think the contest and events is very key because

475
00:39:03,787 --> 00:39:06,487
it's one of the things that you'll find if you go to a lot of different conferences

476
00:39:06,737 --> 00:39:10,237
especially in the security arena... it's very boring. [laughs]

477
00:39:10,487 --> 00:39:14,187
Usually you're sitting around in a bar getting really, really drunk

478
00:39:14,437 --> 00:39:15,937
with a bunch of friends.

479
00:39:16,187 --> 00:39:18,687
And going to a couple talks that you're interested in seeing.

480
00:39:18,937 --> 00:39:21,437
But over all it's a lot of looking for something to do.

481
00:39:21,687 --> 00:39:25,187
We've just grown to where now I believe I'm managing about 50 events.

482
00:39:25,437 --> 00:39:28,937
50 events and contests throughout DEF CON 20.

483
00:39:29,187 --> 00:39:30,687
[music playing]

484
00:39:37,937 --> 00:39:41,437
INTERVIEWER: What's going on? -Not much, just cutting some mohawks.

485
00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:49,813
It just started out as shenanigans... with, like, drunk people in bathrooms

486
00:39:50,063 --> 00:39:51,563
at DEF CON.

487
00:39:52,500 --> 00:39:56,500
But people started giving us money. I started telling them to donate to the E.F.F.

488
00:39:56,750 --> 00:40:01,250
and so people told me I should make it official cause

489
00:40:01,251 --> 00:40:03,265
it just became tradition.

490
00:40:03,365 --> 00:40:06,256
(music playing)

491
00:40:06,356 --> 00:40:12,242
Last year we raised about $4000 total for EFF, Hackers for Charity,

492
00:40:12,314 --> 00:40:14,431
and other hackerspaces around the country.

493
00:40:14,487 --> 00:40:18,512
(music playing)

494
00:40:18,514 --> 00:40:23,055
I've been growing my hair out for 2 years ...it was difficult for the girl, because

495
00:40:23,250 --> 00:40:27,088
she was about this tall and she had to stand up on a chair to actually

496
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:28,158
finish it all.

497
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,508
This year we have a goal because last year he shook on it:

498
00:40:32,586 --> 00:40:37,027
DT will be getting a mohawk this year, if he likes it or not.

499
00:40:37,277 --> 00:40:41,477
(music playing)

500
00:40:41,508 --> 00:40:45,340
I've been playing Hack Fortress, which is an amazing competition, it's one of the highlights

501
00:40:45,378 --> 00:40:49,529
of DEF CON for me. Essentially we have a team of 6 to 8

502
00:40:49,558 --> 00:40:53,058
players who play Team Fortress really how it's meant to be played.

503
00:40:53,158 --> 00:40:57,658
You know: Medic, Heavy, and they try and capture points. We as the hacking team,

504
00:40:57,966 --> 00:41:02,404
essentially we're doing hacking challenges: cryptography, forensics,

505
00:41:02,454 --> 00:41:06,339
physical challenges, social engineering, information gathering, and that gets

506
00:41:06,359 --> 00:41:10,567
our team benefits. So it might light the other team on fire, it might make

507
00:41:10,666 --> 00:41:15,167
everything our team shoots a critical hit. It's just a really cool combination

508
00:41:15,211 --> 00:41:19,059
of both gaming and hacking which, you know, is awesome.

509
00:41:19,730 --> 00:41:47,456
(music playing)

510
00:41:48,909 --> 00:41:54,042
Now you've got an objective here, you've got a 3 person team, and you

511
00:41:54,100 --> 00:41:58,764
have to infiltrate this office, steal a lot of information and get back out

512
00:41:58,774 --> 00:42:00,743
again, in 15 minutes.

513
00:42:01,547 --> 00:42:06,469
But it's a penetration and data exfiltration job. So team-based people

514
00:42:06,629 --> 00:42:11,133
will penetrate into a virtual office, and we're framing out the walls and

515
00:42:11,205 --> 00:42:15,767
everything. You'll have to pick in, once you're in, a team of people then

516
00:42:16,017 --> 00:42:19,554
can try to get documents, which you don't just unlock a lock, you have to

517
00:42:19,804 --> 00:42:23,272
spread them out, legibly photograph them, put them back where you found

518
00:42:23,522 --> 00:42:26,710
them. I think we're including now, there's a smartphone, like an Android

519
00:42:26,873 --> 00:42:30,323
phone, so you have to hold it up just right and maybe you see the pattern.

520
00:42:30,473 --> 00:42:32,614
You swipe it out and you get some contacts.

521
00:42:32,864 --> 00:42:37,121
So I have this computer running Windows 3.11, so I'm watching people try to fumble

522
00:42:37,571 --> 00:42:42,386
their way through Windows File Manager, looking for data, but the really key

523
00:42:42,486 --> 00:42:44,912
thing is that if you can unlock the computer where it's chained up,

524
00:42:45,037 --> 00:42:49,761
can you get the whole computer out of the office, and can you do it without

525
00:42:49,911 --> 00:42:51,511
powering it off?

526
00:42:51,761 --> 00:42:56,688
So we are hot-jacking into the wires, splicing in the UPS using a tool

527
00:42:56,938 --> 00:43:00,102
the feds use, called a 'hotplug', to transfer the switching of the power

528
00:43:00,392 --> 00:43:06,243
on a whim, but a lot of people mad dash, half tiger-team, half Marx Brothers movie,

529
00:43:06,335 --> 00:43:09,250
running around this office, getting everything, getting out clean, locking

530
00:43:09,500 --> 00:43:13,935
it up after themselves. Yeah, I can see a lot of us who used to be the guy who

531
00:43:13,935 --> 00:43:17,419
would maybe get drunk and worry about being arrested, now we all have jobs

532
00:43:17,443 --> 00:43:19,947
where we do this professionally and get paid for it.

533
00:43:20,197 --> 00:43:24,225
(applause)

534
00:43:25,809 --> 00:43:35,143
(music playing)

535
00:43:35,393 --> 00:43:40,689
All right, all right, we are ready to begin! Everyone we're going to do science over

536
00:43:40,693 --> 00:43:43,630
here, we're going to do less science over there!

537
00:43:45,256 --> 00:43:51,178
These teams are tasked with cooling the beer to exactly 42 degrees...which is

538
00:43:51,642 --> 00:43:53,811
ridiculous...but...

539
00:43:54,061 --> 00:43:57,586
People came through...people came through in amazing ways that I never expected.

540
00:43:57,838 --> 00:44:01,348
This year I took away all the restrictions about what you can and

541
00:44:01,553 --> 00:44:06,540
can't do and I said you have to get it to exactly 42 degrees.

542
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:12,561
And....time!

543
00:44:14,569 --> 00:44:22,060
And this last minute entry "Team Ice not Science" if I got their name right...

544
00:44:22,060 --> 00:44:27,512
hit it! Exactly! ... It was a fantastic success in the end!

545
00:44:28,384 --> 00:45:10,568
(music playing)

546
00:45:13,051 --> 00:45:19,150
Stop! This is ShizNiz live from DEF CON in the beautiful city of Las Vegas

547
00:45:19,150 --> 00:45:21,087
behind me you can see the skyline...

548
00:45:21,087 --> 00:45:25,081
It's a rooftop! Look at that rooftop!

549
00:45:25,265 --> 00:45:29,923
Over to your right if Dave can get it...

550
00:45:29,923 --> 00:45:32,741
There you go, there's the mountains...

551
00:45:32,741 --> 00:45:34,622
There's the Alexis Park...

552
00:45:34,622 --> 00:46:11,866
(music playing)

553
00:46:11,866 --> 00:46:18,362
The Alexis Park is part of the DEF CON legend. It definitely, it's probably the

554
00:46:18,415 --> 00:46:20,017
closest thing DEF CON has to a home.

555
00:46:20,664 --> 00:46:22,968
I know, I wish it was still at the Alexis Park.

556
00:46:22,988 --> 00:46:26,798
There was a long period of time that I associate with Alexis Park.

557
00:46:26,798 --> 00:46:28,516
We were there for a long time, like 6 or 7 years

558
00:46:28,525 --> 00:46:31,186
You've got the whole property. You can hang out by the pool...

559
00:46:31,650 --> 00:46:35,575
This is some horrible 70's-like apartment building laid out rows

560
00:46:35,575 --> 00:46:40,103
of these hotel rooms, with pools and grassy areas down the middle.

561
00:46:40,103 --> 00:46:44,247
It's like multiple pools that we could just party at all night...

562
00:46:44,421 --> 00:46:48,810
If you don't know what the Pool 2 means, if you don't know what Pool 3 means...

563
00:46:48,810 --> 00:46:52,572
You weren't there...I mean it, some really ridiculous stuff went on.

564
00:46:53,408 --> 00:47:01,697
Pool 2 and Pool 3 were just sort of like these nexuses of activity and energy...

565
00:47:01,697 --> 00:47:07,850
You could be guaranteed to find something going on at 2am, 3am all the

566
00:47:07,850 --> 00:47:10,062
way to the sunrise.

567
00:47:10,148 --> 00:47:14,850
And we had folks that were underage, and we had folks that were overage, and

568
00:47:14,898 --> 00:47:18,960
everyone was not sober, and doing their thing...

569
00:47:18,973 --> 00:47:25,439
I was told at one point that at the Alexis Park, we did enough business in

570
00:47:25,476 --> 00:47:30,183
alcohol sales that equalled about 4 months of their normal alcohol sales.

571
00:47:30,245 --> 00:47:33,636
And you talk about debauchery?

572
00:47:34,636 --> 00:47:36,960
The AP was where true debauchery at DEF CON occurred.

573
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,242
(applause)

574
00:47:40,242 --> 00:47:44,920
(cheering)

575
00:47:45,170 --> 00:47:49,309
And at the time, the hotel owners, they were alright, they were alright.

576
00:47:49,309 --> 00:47:53,047
They basically had the attitude of, "You know what? You can trash our hotel if you want."

577
00:47:53,047 --> 00:47:57,425
"You'll pay for it, but at the end of the day, we'll take your money."

578
00:47:57,675 --> 00:48:01,940
They weren't as concerned about the lights around the pool getting destroyed,

579
00:48:01,940 --> 00:48:05,238
any things of that nature, so it was a little bit easier to deal with, you know,

580
00:48:05,238 --> 00:48:06,724
destruction in that way.

581
00:48:06,724 --> 00:48:12,750
I go to check in, and they hand me a list, "Ok, let me explain this to you."

582
00:48:12,820 --> 00:48:17,126
And it's a list of all of the objects in the room at the Alexis Park

583
00:48:17,126 --> 00:48:19,668
with a dollar amount next to it. "If you would like to destroy this object in your room

584
00:48:19,668 --> 00:48:21,538
this is how much it will cost you."

585
00:48:21,538 --> 00:48:26,452
You could just get insane and you weren't waking anyone up, you didn't have to

586
00:48:26,543 --> 00:48:30,072
worry about security coming and telling you to stop doing something because

587
00:48:30,072 --> 00:48:33,462
usually you were doing it to somebody who wanted you to.

588
00:48:33,462 --> 00:48:37,403
The Alexis Park, we were much more hands-on because they didn't

589
00:48:37,503 --> 00:48:38,842
have a security staff that a casino has

590
00:48:39,105 --> 00:48:45,826
So I was arrested at DEF CON in 2002 by the hotel security guards, but I don't

591
00:48:45,826 --> 00:48:50,493
know who ordered it, I guess a goon, probably Priest ordered it, and I ended

592
00:48:50,493 --> 00:48:55,137
up in the Alexis Park jail, which is very roomy, it was kind of a Bacchanalian,

593
00:48:55,137 --> 00:48:59,260
Mediterranean motif, there were grape leaves on the walls and things like that.

594
00:48:59,260 --> 00:49:00,537
There's no bars or anything like that.

595
00:49:00,787 --> 00:49:04,229
And since it was a non-gambling hotel you could do whatever you want, wherever

596
00:49:04,229 --> 00:49:06,969
you want, because you didn't have to be an adult.

597
00:49:07,219 --> 00:49:10,061
You used to make announcements at DEF CON that, "So and so's parents are

598
00:49:10,068 --> 00:49:15,444
looking for their runaway child," you know, who was 17 and was off at the con

599
00:49:15,694 --> 00:49:20,645
It was a different experience, everybody says "I wish it was the Alexis Park again."

600
00:49:20,645 --> 00:49:24,789
"Oh, I wish we were back at the Alexis Park." Honestly, I do too. I really liked the

601
00:49:24,789 --> 00:49:29,037
environment, the pool parties, the open atmosphere, we had the whole hotel.

602
00:49:29,074 --> 00:49:33,625
But then everybody forgets that, oh, the lines are ridiculous, all the rooms were overcrowded

603
00:49:33,625 --> 00:49:36,460
Oh, I couldn't do anything, it was awful.

604
00:49:36,460 --> 00:49:39,975
There was no room for speaking. I mean, people would make t-shirts about how

605
00:49:39,975 --> 00:49:42,651
terrible it was to get into the tent in the parking lot.

606
00:49:42,701 --> 00:49:48,175
So, it's better, it's more organized, yeah It's a little different, I wouldn't go back.

607
00:49:48,245 --> 00:49:54,491
For us to go back there now, we would have to cut this conference by 2/3.

608
00:49:54,991 --> 00:50:00,003
And, nostalgically, yes I look back on that time, and it was a great time.

609
00:50:00,004 --> 00:50:06,770
But we need a venue the size of the Rio, now, to support the size that we've become.

610
00:50:07,771 --> 00:50:11,875
But, that's probably the time, when, things seemed to settle in.

611
00:50:11,875 --> 00:50:16,612
That, you know, we've going something going here, and it's probably going to continue for a while.

612
00:50:16,613 --> 00:50:20,584
Well, and that's one the things. Obviously, the Alexis Park is near and dear to a lot of people because,

613
00:50:20,584 --> 00:50:24,321
this is, you know, how many years have we been away from the Alexis Park?

614
00:50:24,321 --> 00:50:30,627
And still, every year, somebody drives over there, walks into the front of the hotel,

615
00:50:30,627 --> 00:50:36,733
and steals the giant floor mat in the front, and brings it back to con. (laughing)

616
00:50:42,472 --> 00:50:45,342
A conference badge has three purposes.

617
00:50:47,778 --> 00:50:53,116
The first purpose is to show that you've paid for the conference. It's a security token.

618
00:50:55,519 --> 00:51:00,824
Number 2, it sets the level of your security, when you're within the conference.

619
00:51:01,922 --> 00:51:07,331
Third, I wanted the badges, that I created, to be something that helped brought people together.

620
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:16,506
I intentionally designed the badges to cause people to have to look at each other, and talk to each other.

621
00:51:16,507 --> 00:51:22,479
To get to know somebody that they might not otherwise have known.

622
00:51:25,982 --> 00:51:30,187
It really is the interaction with the other people at DEF CON that makes DEF CON what it is.

623
00:51:30,187 --> 00:51:37,360
It's not the "oh, I have this uber, awesome, electronic circuit badge that does such and such."

624
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:43,066
It's the people wearing the badge that matter. And, I think a lot of people miss that.

625
00:51:49,706 --> 00:51:55,679
The years where we've had an electronic badge, people show up wanting to do something with this awesome

626
00:51:55,679 --> 00:51:59,416
little piece of tech that they were just given for their entry fee.

627
00:52:01,952 --> 00:52:05,589
This is, we're helping... This is like an open badge solder session.

628
00:52:06,223 --> 00:52:08,959
We're helping people complete adding the connectors to their badges.

629
00:52:10,861 --> 00:52:15,699
We're not doing it for them, we're assisting them, and letting them do it themselves. Because that way they learn how to solder.

630
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,803
So far, no one's done anything that hasn't been able to be fixed.

631
00:52:20,337 --> 00:52:25,475
So it's more of just learning, and, community learning project, I guess. Just doing the badges.

632
00:52:26,910 --> 00:52:32,716
Yes. First DEF CON. First time soldering. A lot of firsts this weekend.

633
00:52:34,050 --> 00:52:39,623
I really like to help other people just get better at what they do.

634
00:52:39,923 --> 00:52:42,926
Or to find an inspiration, something they're passionate about.

635
00:52:43,226 --> 00:52:46,463
And I like to help them progress along that path.

636
00:52:48,732 --> 00:52:50,233
Pretty much 90% of the people here have never soldered in their life.

637
00:52:51,167 --> 00:52:53,303
This is their first time. And that's the goal.

638
00:52:54,237 --> 00:52:56,440
It lets people, introduce people. Hey, it's not that scary. It's okay.

639
00:52:58,608 --> 00:53:03,213
We're here to guide you, and maybe, you'll do it in the future. And if not, you'll know you've done it. So it's one of those skills you'll have.

640
00:53:12,989 --> 00:53:19,162
Usually, the only people that are really getting it, are sequestered in their hotel room, just, going crazy on it.

641
00:53:24,100 --> 00:53:25,468
There are some people that counterfeit the badges every year.

642
00:53:26,369 --> 00:53:30,673
And we try to make the badges hard to counterfeit. And there are some people that spend a lot of time counterfeiting the badges.

643
00:53:31,741 --> 00:53:33,777
And, I think that's cool.

644
00:53:34,077 --> 00:53:39,049
If you can counterfeit the badge, and you can get past the guards, repeatedly, good for you. You probably deserve to get in. Right?

645
00:53:40,050 --> 00:53:42,620
That's what a hacking convention is all about.

646
00:53:42,621 --> 00:53:48,225
If you're good enough to fool everybody, you've put more energy into hacking that badge than we did, probably, producing it.

647
00:53:48,525 --> 00:53:49,559
So, good for you.

648
00:53:50,193 --> 00:53:57,820
They had the smiley face, you know, skull and crossbones, the basic logo for the con.

649
00:53:57,934 --> 00:54:02,405
And I think their first design flaw was, same PCB board, different colors.

650
00:54:03,606 --> 00:54:05,208
So you had people that went out and spray painted them. And things like that.

651
00:54:05,354 --> 00:54:12,082
Well, the absolute worst thing to do is to step into the goon SOC (Security Operations Center) with your cute, little red badge, and claim that you're a goon.

652
00:54:12,382 --> 00:54:16,319
Because we all know who we are. And once the door closes, you're ours.

653
00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:28,798
(music playing)

654
00:54:28,799 --> 00:54:35,138
And so it was a space where I felt more at home, where I didn't have to explain anything to anybody

655
00:54:35,839 --> 00:54:37,274
than any other context I'd ever been in.

656
00:54:40,209 --> 00:54:42,512
Real hackers are incredible.

657
00:54:43,513 --> 00:54:49,512
They take nothing for granted, and they look at things to see how they can be combined to make something new.

658
00:54:49,986 --> 00:54:55,291
And hackers really have a interesting, innovative, creative way, the best of them,

659
00:54:55,292 --> 00:55:02,564
of looking at all sorts of problems.. that a normal person wouldn't know how to do.

660
00:55:02,565 --> 00:55:05,434
And being fearless in the face of ambiguity;

661
00:55:05,435 --> 00:55:10,105
holding multiple representations of reality simultaneously, in their minds,

662
00:55:10,106 --> 00:55:12,709
even though they may be contradictory, and conflicting...

663
00:55:13,109 --> 00:55:17,180
And holding them there, lightly, while you explore which ones are a best fit for now,

664
00:55:17,848 --> 00:55:19,816
to the sensory data coming into society...

665
00:55:21,151 --> 00:55:24,721
You know, Feynman, great physicist, he said "The interesting fact is the anomalous fact."

666
00:55:25,021 --> 00:55:26,957
Emphasize both fact, and anomaly.

667
00:55:27,590 --> 00:55:31,261
Because it says there's a whole cornerstone here of another way of looking at things,

668
00:55:32,062 --> 00:55:33,129
that we're missing.

669
00:55:33,430 --> 00:55:37,567
Well, that's what hackers are looking for. And that's why I've taken to it so.

670
00:55:38,435 --> 00:55:44,074
Because the edge where new realities are appearing, and normals don't see them at first...

671
00:55:45,142 --> 00:55:49,913
But hackers are looking for them. They're kind of the little homunculus, inside the machine.

672
00:55:51,981 --> 00:55:54,684
When I come here, I don't have to explain anything, to anybody.

673
00:55:54,785 --> 00:55:54,855
my point of view, or my point of reference.

674
00:55:54,856 --> 00:56:04,260
Or, why I said what I said. Or, what was ironic. Or, or, what was meant straight up.

675
00:56:05,556 --> 00:56:06,496
Because people just kinda get it.

676
00:56:07,664 --> 00:56:09,532
And that's a terrific thing.

677
00:56:29,018 --> 00:56:34,024
(music playing)

678
00:56:34,824 --> 00:56:39,095
Probably our signature event, is Capture the Flag.

679
00:56:54,945 --> 00:56:57,467
When you go to DEF CON, and walk through the Capture the Flag area,

680
00:56:58,515 --> 00:57:02,519
you're seeing some of the best of the best teams that are out there.

681
00:57:03,286 --> 00:57:08,091
Well, this is really, this is the Wimbledon, this is the place around the world where it all comes together.

682
00:57:09,359 --> 00:57:16,199
What strikes me isn't in the room. It's the fact that there were a couple thousand people competing, from around the world, to get into that room.

683
00:57:17,834 --> 00:57:20,970
Some of those guys, that travel from like South Korea, or from the Middle East, to do CTF...

684
00:57:21,604 --> 00:57:25,675
they came thousands of miles, and are not going to sleep for three days.

685
00:57:26,409 --> 00:57:30,547
To participate in one game, at one event, that happens once a year.

686
00:57:31,648 --> 00:57:32,949
And that's what amazes me.

687
00:57:34,450 --> 00:57:37,120
It's about a bunch of different teams, getting together on a big network,

688
00:57:37,620 --> 00:57:40,557
trying to steal each other's stuff, in essence.

689
00:57:46,863 --> 00:57:47,831
Capture the Flag has been there since the beginning.

690
00:57:49,032 --> 00:57:53,169
And, really, from a hacker perspective, it's the type of thing that you think of,

691
00:57:53,170 --> 00:57:55,538
"Hey, how do I take over this guy's computer?"

692
00:57:56,439 --> 00:58:00,176
Don't miss any con where you can sit down at a laptop and make the network work, and start breaking things.

693
00:58:06,616 --> 00:58:10,000
(music playing)

694
00:58:10,654 --> 00:58:13,232
So, Crash and Compile is a programming contest, crossed with a drinking game.

695
00:58:13,323 --> 00:58:14,457
What could possibly go wrong?

696
00:58:14,458 --> 00:58:18,094
If you're familar with the ACM style programming contests;

697
00:58:18,428 --> 00:58:20,697
you're given a challenge, a word problem, you know?

698
00:58:20,897 --> 00:58:24,334
Write a program, that takes this kind of input and generates that kind of output.

699
00:58:24,624 --> 00:58:27,270
Or some arbitrary word problem.

700
00:58:28,304 --> 00:58:31,274
And you start coding. And you're coding along, you're coding along,

701
00:58:32,275 --> 00:58:34,978
and then you say, "I think I'm gonna test something," and you try and compile it.

702
00:58:35,712 --> 00:58:36,079
And it doesn't compile. You take a drink.

703
00:58:36,679 --> 00:58:40,316
If it compiles, but doesn't run, you take a drink.

704
00:58:41,384 --> 00:58:43,019
If it runs, but doesn't produce the right output, you take a drink.

705
00:58:43,319 --> 00:58:45,922
Okay, you can see how this could degrade very quickly.

706
00:58:46,923 --> 00:58:54,297
After 45 minutes, any points that are not awarded, or that have not already been awarded to competing teams get awarded to Team Distraction.

707
00:58:55,765 --> 00:58:58,167
The team with the most points at the end of the night goes home with a Black Badge.

708
00:59:00,570 --> 00:59:04,274
No, Team Distraction does not qualify for a Black Badge, unfortunately.

709
00:59:07,443 --> 00:59:11,314
And you're coding? No. I am part of Team Distraction.

710
00:59:11,614 --> 00:59:18,988
Our first goal is make sure that they get enough water, and they don't drink too much.

711
00:59:19,689 --> 00:59:22,959
But then, of course, you know, we have to distract them from their coding,

712
00:59:23,426 --> 00:59:38,140
and kinda like mess them up, and, you know, just, distract them a little.

713
00:59:38,141 --> 00:59:45,114
Does everyone have a beer? (affirmation from the contestants) Let's rephrase that. Who doesn't have a beer?

714
00:59:50,653 --> 00:59:52,889
Are we there yet? We're there. Okay.

715
00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:01,099
Any other questions? No? Groovy. Let's go program.

716
01:00:01,100 --> 01:00:03,300
Brilliant. Let's go program.

717
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:17,000
(singing)

718
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:33,600
(background noise)

719
01:00:35,000 --> 01:01:04,000
(music playing)

720
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:10,900
Gotta energize the crowd. I gotta set the pace, set the tone. And then I have

721
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,900
to say something outrageous pretty damn quickly, gotta insult somebody quickly.

722
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:20,100
The show's begun and I'm not really aware of much of anything else for the

723
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:27,700
next couple of hours. I want the audience engaged within 10, 15 seconds.

724
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:29,900
I want to have that dialogue.

725
01:01:30,700 --> 01:01:36,900
"Copyright lawyers mean this, by I.P." [buzzer goes off] "Win or Lose!"

726
01:01:37,100 --> 01:01:40,600
"What is intellectual property?" - "What is intellectual property is correct!"

727
01:01:41,700 --> 01:01:47,700
You can piss this crowd off very easily. So, you get your feedback very very quickly

728
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:49,700
as to whether you're doing a good job or a bad job.

729
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:55,800
Jeff and I had talked, and he says "I really wanna notch up the 20th, I wanna go out

730
01:01:55,900 --> 01:02:01,600
with a bang, and I wanna do all these crazy things." And it was "COOL!"

731
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:13,800
"The final category is Beer." (cheers)

732
01:02:14,300 --> 01:02:21,800
I think that this audience, probably 50% bigger than last year. So that would put

733
01:02:21,900 --> 01:02:31,800
that crowd, I'm guessing, in the 2,500 range, something like that. But this one was huge.

734
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:43,590
We'll see you tomorrow night, for the final final final round of Hacker Jeopardy, DEF CON 20.

735
01:02:44,500 --> 01:03:51,400
(music playing)

736
01:03:53,700 --> 01:03:58,200
Common experiences at DEF CON include... I don't remember.

737
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:06,300
Meaning that if you have a good con you probably have no recollection of what

738
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:07,900
actually happened.

739
01:04:08,500 --> 01:04:17,900
(music playing)

740
01:04:37,000 --> 01:05:02,100
(music playing)

741
01:05:03,500 --> 01:05:09,300
If you've never been, don't base your assumptions off what you've read or heard.

742
01:05:10,700 --> 01:05:14,400
At this point especially, DEF CON is something you just have to experience.

743
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:19,600
DEF CON is not a convention, it's a meta-convention. But there's so many smaller

744
01:05:19,700 --> 01:05:26,300
events, gatherings, meet-ups, projects, that it's become a group of other smaller conferences.

745
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:32,100
There are other aspects, other facets of the con, that are completely

746
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:37,900
different then what you have heard, thought of, expect or even dreamt are possible.

747
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:45,600
There's people you've known from internet stuff, only through that, and you come from a small

748
01:05:45,700 --> 01:05:49,900
town, right, you don't know anybody, and you have this weird stuff you're into. And then you go to DEF CON,

749
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:53,500
And that's where you meet the people, right? And it's beautiful. Just hangin' out,

750
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:58,700
the conversations. It's the place. DEF CON is the place.

751
01:06:03,700 --> 01:06:09,300
So they change periodically. And so the fire marshall you had last year may not be

752
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:18,300
the fire marshall...Oh, I think that's... the attorney. "Hello? Hey, OK, we'll let you in."

753
01:06:20,100 --> 01:06:25,100
I can think of a couple of things he might have done, ya know, that I wished he hadn't have done.

754
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:28,300
I can think of one.

755
01:06:28,950 --> 01:06:38,000
When we started, it was very clear that Jeff was younger, and he was way smarter then me,

756
01:06:38,150 --> 01:06:42,800
but in my opinion, he had no street sense, which essentially just meant that he didn't

757
01:06:42,900 --> 01:06:48,200
know what the ramifications could be from a law standpoint on some of the stuff we

758
01:06:48,300 --> 01:06:53,900
were dealing with. You know, it's really not property damage stuff. We, you know,

759
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:58,000
that, we can do something about. You can liquidate that, you can price it, you

760
01:06:58,100 --> 01:07:03,200
can figure it out. I mean, we've had lawsuits, we've dealt with big major

761
01:07:03,300 --> 01:07:10,400
battles with me versus eight lawyers from Cisco for about 2 years. You know,

762
01:07:10,500 --> 01:07:14,800
it's got these players that can get involved that aren't really attached to DEF CON that

763
01:07:14,900 --> 01:07:20,600
could put DEF CON at massive risk for government intervention, heavy duty

764
01:07:20,700 --> 01:07:21,700
lawsuit intervention.

765
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,800
People want to come to DEF CON, which is fine, that's what DEF CON, Jeff likes it, I think.

766
01:07:25,900 --> 01:07:30,700
They come to DEF CON, they're like "Hey man, I wanna step on the toes of

767
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:38,500
"fill in the blank" mondo, master, master of the universe, aggressive company.

768
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:46,200
"I wanna come to DEF CON and piss them off, what do you think?" And it certainly isn't

769
01:07:46,300 --> 01:07:54,130
boring when somebody says "Yeah, I'm gonna shut down, ya know, huge Corporation X."

770
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:59,500
So there's problems the public knows about, and there's problems that never see the light of day.

771
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:04,200
Or hopefully never see the light of day. So we've had a little bit on both sides.

772
01:08:04,300 --> 01:08:12,900
Nearly dodged lawsuits, those kinds of things. We had one at

773
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:21,600
the Alexis Park where there was a federal grand jury we heard about that was

774
01:08:21,700 --> 01:08:26,600
investigating DEF CON and they were asking for all the room reservation, credit card

775
01:08:26,700 --> 01:08:33,800
info on everybody who attended DEF CON. Luckily we are cash only, so there's no

776
01:08:33,899 --> 01:08:40,000
records to seize from us. So as the organization we were fine, but the hotel

777
01:08:40,100 --> 01:08:47,600
and vendors in the area, they were getting their records taken, seized, and they're

778
01:08:47,700 --> 01:08:50,700
performing some investigations. In the end, nothing came of it. The grand jury

779
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:56,200
as far as I know never did anything with it. But, that's one of those things

780
01:08:56,300 --> 01:09:00,700
where for years I was telling people, there's a reason why you don't process

781
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:06,500
credit cards and keep records. And after years of doing that, I was vindicated

782
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:10,000
in my paranoia. Because that would have been a huge legal battle to deal with

783
01:09:10,100 --> 01:09:15,000
all of that. To try and turn it over, not turn it over. So there's battles

784
01:09:15,100 --> 01:09:17,300
like that that never see the light of day. And this is the first time I've ever

785
01:09:17,399 --> 01:09:19,000
actually talked about it.

786
01:09:20,649 --> 01:09:26,895
INTERVIEWER: Describe Jeff Moss. - Describe Jeff Moss. Oh...

787
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:35,500
Jeff is a friend. He's an interesting guy. He travels a lot. He's very intelligent.

788
01:09:36,899 --> 01:09:42,370
Jeff's awesome. He is legitimately a good person. He's absolutely brilliant.

789
01:09:42,500 --> 01:09:47,100
And in my opinion, if we didn't have Jeff, this community and this culture

790
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:48,684
would have never grown to what it is.

791
01:09:49,500 --> 01:09:53,800
Without Jeff, DEF CON never would have made it this far. I believe that

792
01:09:53,899 --> 01:09:58,000
without DEF CON goons, it also never would have made it this far, but Jeff

793
01:09:58,100 --> 01:09:59,917
is the glue. You know, he's the glue that brought us this far.

794
01:09:59,918 --> 01:10:03,557
This grew from a very small conference where the staff was

795
01:10:03,859 --> 01:10:07,799
equal to, or more than the attendees, to a crowd that

796
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:12,651
regularly we've had to move venues every couple years, because we keep growing so much.

797
01:10:12,651 --> 01:10:17,502
Yet, that continual continuity, and the spirit of DEF CON

798
01:10:17,502 --> 01:10:20,836
if you will, is maintained because of Jeff.

799
01:10:20,837 --> 01:10:24,777
He's overly concerned about what the DEF CON attendees think about the conference.

800
01:10:24,778 --> 01:10:27,506
He wants them to have a good experience, he really does.

801
01:10:27,506 --> 01:10:30,537
Jeff cares about DEF CON, so much!

802
01:10:30,538 --> 01:10:34,781
He's a bit shy, as I'm sure everybody has gotten to figure out over the years.

803
01:10:34,782 --> 01:10:38,722
It's difficult to get a hold of him sometimes at DEF CON, and difficult to grab him.

804
01:10:38,723 --> 01:10:42,663
You know, he's like most hackers. He's not overly social, and he's got that quiet side,

805
01:10:42,664 --> 01:10:46,907
a little withdrawn. He's only got so much he's willing to give you.

806
01:10:46,908 --> 01:10:51,151
He is a really personable, kind-hearted guy.

807
01:10:51,152 --> 01:10:55,699
He is managing chaos, and

808
01:10:55,700 --> 01:10:59,943
it is not an easy job, and he's a very smart guy, and it's very difficult job,

809
01:10:59,944 --> 01:11:04,187
and fortunately, he's also surrounded himself with people who can help him do that.

810
01:11:04,188 --> 01:11:09,644
(Music)

811
01:11:09,645 --> 01:11:14,798
In the early days, there wasn't a formal structure.

812
01:11:14,799 --> 01:11:19,649
Kind of in the beginning, we all were security goons

813
01:11:19,650 --> 01:11:25,106
to a certain extent, and whether is was official or unofficial there was a group of people that helped

814
01:11:25,107 --> 01:11:30,566
control of what was going on, and it wasn't until later years, that, as the attendance went up, that we had

815
01:11:30,867 --> 01:11:34,807
to deal with more formal roles.

816
01:11:34,808 --> 01:11:40,267
Rule number four. Do listen to the Goons. If a red shirt tells you to do something, do it.

817
01:11:40,872 --> 01:11:46,331
The goons aren't trying to ruin your fun. They're just trying to make DEF CON an enjoyable experience for everyone.

818
01:11:47,845 --> 01:11:52,998
I mean, without the Goons, I think there are a lot of things that would just fall apart really fast.

819
01:11:52,999 --> 01:11:54,817
And they have in the past.

820
01:11:54,818 --> 01:12:00,880
It may have been after DEF CON 9, it was really a rough year. I don't exactly remember why, but we had growth spurts.

821
01:12:00,881 --> 01:12:06,034
Where at the Alexis Park, they're physically breaking up fights. They're picking drunks up out of the

822
01:12:06,035 --> 01:12:10,885
rose bushes. They're doing CPR on people. The Goons at the early Alexis Park

823
01:12:10,886 --> 01:12:16,039
days that everybody misses, were actually Goons.

824
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:21,193
There have been some serious cardiac events, that I participated in, but we have had no deaths.

825
01:12:21,194 --> 01:12:26,044
We were really beat up after 9, and we had discussions then as

826
01:12:26,045 --> 01:12:30,895
to, "You know, do we call it quits at 10? We've had a good run. Ten years, that's substantial...

827
01:12:30,896 --> 01:12:35,746
Maybe we'll do it one more and see how we feel."

828
01:12:35,747 --> 01:12:41,506
And we did 10, and 10 turned out to be pretty good, and thankfully, we didn't quit.

829
01:12:41,507 --> 01:12:45,447
All of the various teams have kind of occurred organically.

830
01:12:45,448 --> 01:12:50,298
There's a lot of compartmentalization, that I don't think people realize.

831
01:12:50,299 --> 01:12:55,149
Everyone has their own responsibilities that they're dealing with.

832
01:12:55,150 --> 01:13:00,000
We've spent a lot of time over the past year setting up for this convention.

833
01:13:00,001 --> 01:13:05,154
It is truly a labor of love. We are all volunteers.

834
01:13:05,155 --> 01:13:10,915
We don't do this for glory, we don't do this for anything other than we want you guys to have a good time.

835
01:13:10,916 --> 01:13:15,766
When I'm not at DEF CON, we're talking about DEF CON. The entire year, we're planning for DEF CON.

836
01:13:15,767 --> 01:13:20,313
We're thinking about DEF CON. We're telling DEF CON stories.

837
01:13:20,314 --> 01:13:23,345
Because we live it. We love it.

838
01:13:23,346 --> 01:13:26,983
You don't become a Goon. You're born a Goon.

839
01:13:26,984 --> 01:13:32,137
The joke is that we work for shirts. We get a couple of shirts to go and

840
01:13:32,138 --> 01:13:37,325
work for twelve hour days plus at DEF CON, plus all the volunteer time throughout the rest of the year.

841
01:13:37,595 --> 01:13:42,782
A couple of our guys have worn pedometers over the years, and the average shift is between fifteen and twenty-five miles.

842
01:13:43,052 --> 01:13:48,205
So, we tend to, especially newer people, tell them to wear the right footwear,

843
01:13:48,206 --> 01:13:53,393
make sure you always have water on you. Never walk into a situation where you

844
01:13:53,663 --> 01:13:54,850
don't have a plan.

845
01:13:54,875 --> 01:13:59,725
One of the things I like to say is: "At DEF CON, I live my life in the gutter, so you don't have to."

846
01:13:59,726 --> 01:14:04,576
But, you're right, things that people don't see, that's our DEF CON. That's the Security Goons' DEF CON.

847
01:14:04,577 --> 01:14:09,427
I'm glad to do anything I can for my fellow Goons.

848
01:14:09,428 --> 01:14:14,581
Any time, any day.

849
01:14:14,582 --> 01:14:30,347
(Music)

850
01:14:30,348 --> 01:14:35,501
I was creating a contest that would be something I would want to participate in.

851
01:14:35,502 --> 01:14:40,689
I used to say, magic is dead in the world, so I'm gonna create some for everybody else.

852
01:14:41,262 --> 01:14:46,752
(Music)

853
01:14:47,022 --> 01:14:52,478
I have to design cryptography and puzzles for an incredibly brilliant audience

854
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:57,969
that is designed to be solved in three days. That's not too easy, not too hard.

855
01:15:01,575 --> 01:15:06,425
So now, that became my personal contest. My challenge to myself is

856
01:15:06,426 --> 01:15:11,882
how do I continue to entertain some of the smartest people in the world and keep their brains occupied for three

857
01:15:11,883 --> 01:15:17,036
days when a lot of them are smarter than I am, and can figure this stuff out.

858
01:15:17,037 --> 01:15:20,371
(Music)

859
01:15:20,372 --> 01:15:28,254
We've mapped out this challenge. The first thing we got on this challenge, was a writer with two keywords. "We program" and "Under Foot.

860
01:15:28,255 --> 01:15:33,744
This referred to an insane sentence in the program. It's on page forty.

861
01:15:34,015 --> 01:15:39,504
"Underfoot" represents the third oval, the third

862
01:15:39,775 --> 01:15:45,231
sticker in the convention center, and those two things are two markers we

863
01:15:45,232 --> 01:15:50,721
have to write on a piece of paper and give to 1057. Probably one of the biggest compliments I've ever been paid was

864
01:15:50,992 --> 01:15:56,448
and I've heard this a couple of times, "I go to DEF CON to compete in your contest."

865
01:15:56,449 --> 01:16:01,905
And that's, I mean I don't know what anyone else could say, I'm very

866
01:16:01,906 --> 01:16:07,362
flattered. I'm shocked, because it's just stupid stuff that I think up throughout the year and then

867
01:16:07,363 --> 01:16:12,819
I put it together, and try to make it a coherent flowing contest

868
01:16:12,820 --> 01:16:18,276
to the best of my ability.

869
01:16:18,277 --> 01:16:27,675
(Music)

870
01:16:27,676 --> 01:16:36,804
We're inside the Lockpick Village at DEF CON 20, and this is where we teach people how to pick locks for entertainment and sport reasons.

871
01:16:38,288 --> 01:16:43,744
Most technical people seem to have a rather strange curiosity about how

872
01:16:43,745 --> 01:16:49,201
things work, and one of the things that lead us into that is how locks work.

873
01:16:49,202 --> 01:16:54,961
We can teach most people within five or ten minutes how to start picking locks, and

874
01:16:54,962 --> 01:17:00,721
then some of them will stay in here and at the end of the day we throw them out, and

875
01:17:00,722 --> 01:17:06,481
they'll say, "Oh, I didn't go to the talks I was supposed to.", because they'd been sitting in here picking

876
01:17:06,482 --> 01:17:12,275
locks all day long.

877
01:17:13,455 --> 01:17:29,860
(Music)

878
01:17:30,130 --> 01:17:44,682
(Music)

879
01:17:44,683 --> 01:17:58,898
(Music)

880
01:17:58,899 --> 01:18:35,619
(Music)

881
01:18:37,675 --> 01:18:44,681
Most DEF CON talks start with a great deal of alcohol and end with a great deal of alcohol, at least the good ones

882
01:18:44,951 --> 01:18:51,923
I've noticed.

883
01:18:51,924 --> 01:18:58,896
The aircraft tracking stuff came out of the fact that I bought an app

884
01:18:58,897 --> 01:19:05,904
for a couple bucks that let me point my cell phone at the contrail and look at the information

885
01:19:06,173 --> 01:19:13,145
for that particular flight was overlaid on the camera. As I started digging, I found more and more issues.

886
01:19:13,146 --> 01:19:20,118
Just, you know, out of my own curiosity, I thought "How does this work?". I found all these issues, and it got really scary because,

887
01:19:20,119 --> 01:19:26,788
I speak a lot, and I go to a whole bunch of conferences. You know, this stuff can start

888
01:19:26,789 --> 01:19:33,761
getting really dangerous, so I was thinking, "Even if I don't have all the answers, I need to get this answer out."

889
01:19:33,762 --> 01:19:37,434
(Music)

890
01:19:38,006 --> 01:19:43,159
Really, I've done enough of these things and know the crowd that

891
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:48,652
I don't get jitters or nerves or anything like that.

892
01:19:51,649 --> 01:19:57,141
It's the sort of thing that I'm running through some of the slides in my talk, some of the jokes I may have constructed.

893
01:19:57,409 --> 01:20:02,901
for a particular slide or a particular moment.

894
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:07,000
But mostly, it's just "OK, does my laptop work? Are the slides up?

895
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:11,000
Does the projector work? Yep. OK. All good."

896
01:20:13,500 --> 01:20:16,000
Thank you.

897
01:20:17,250 --> 01:20:22,000
So, generally what I say is that when I get bored, bad things happen.

898
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:29,000
At the Las Vegas Airport here, you've got a flight landing every 90 seconds.

899
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:32,000
That's an awful lot of metal, money and people moving around. How does this all

900
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:37,000
work? How does this all fit together? You always hear about air traffic control,

901
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:40,000
but does anybody really know how it works anymore?

902
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:48,500
I think that the audience is looking to learn something new.

903
01:20:48,500 --> 01:20:54,000
They're looking for an entertaining discussion on interesting technologies that at the

904
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:57,000
end of the day are kind of important.

905
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:06,000
So increasingly my talks have gone into Why is the Internet such an insecure place?

906
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:11,500
What do we have to do, not in theory, not to satisfy academic stuff, but like, real

907
01:21:11,500 --> 01:21:17,000
world, what do we need to change to make this thing secure?

908
01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:24,000
All year, all my best research comes here. All year I work on "What am I gonna bring

909
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:28,000
to DEF CON for the next year" "What am I gonna do for this particular event?"

910
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:34,250
Because it's where it began for me. My career started because I started speaking

911
01:21:34,250 --> 01:21:40,000
out here in Vegas. I started coming out to DEF CON and showing off these toys.

912
01:21:41,500 --> 01:21:46,000
I'll be honest, a lot of my talks have had nothing to do with security, it's just

913
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:48,000
like "Yo, look what I can make THAT thing do!"

914
01:21:49,500 --> 01:21:57,000
The presentation was just facilitating dialog with this industry because unfortunately with

915
01:21:57,000 --> 01:22:01,500
something like a major vulnerability in air traffic control, there's no phone number to

916
01:22:01,500 --> 01:22:08,000
call in for that and say "Hey, can we talk about this?" That doesn't exist.

917
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:16,000
It was the first time I dealt with something that was really serious. The entire talk

918
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:22,250
was theory. I had no facilities to actually test anything in a real world

919
01:22:22,250 --> 01:22:26,000
scenario because obviously I don't want to be screwing with a plane while in flight.

920
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:35,000
(Now the attacker is one step away between an evaluation and attacker controlled code.)

921
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:40,000
My talks are stories and that's the one thing that I advise everyone else

922
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:47,000
giving a speech. You're telling a story to your friends about some cool stuff.

923
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:53,000
I have hundreds of hours of research that I have to tie together into a

924
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:56,000
coherent explanation of the world.

925
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:04,000
(applause)

926
01:23:04,250 --> 01:23:10,000
I was expecting a response and oh boy, did I get it. I was talking to people

927
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:15,000
from major airlines, people with different airplane manufacturers, air traffic controllers,

928
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:20,000
trainers, I've got a pocket full of business cards after this that I have to go through.

929
01:23:27,500 --> 01:23:33,000
This was me loudly knocking on the door and saying "You might have a problem

930
01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:35,000
here. Let's talk about this."

931
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:46,000
Over the years, I've gotten relatively high profile and I'm very happy and

932
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:53,000
honored for all the obligations that come along with being a high profile

933
01:23:53,000 --> 01:24:02,000
individual, but I do miss being able to just wander through the crowds and see cool

934
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:08,000
stuff and watch cool talks. I've got a lot of stuff I've gotta do; it's a lot of

935
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:16,000
obligations. I'm not complaining. This is a tremendous amount of fun that I get to

936
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:22,000
have. I build all these crazy toys and fill Penn and Teller and show them off.

937
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:27,000
The best moment for me at DEF CON is always going to be at 4 in the morning when

938
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:31,000
someone's showing off some really silly stunt that they built. And maybe it's

939
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:36,000
good and maybe it's not, but man they love it and they're enjoying talking about it.

940
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:54,000
(music playing)

941
01:24:55,500 --> 01:25:01,000
The community has matured from DEF CON 4 and 5 dramatically. When I was coming to

942
01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:07,000
DEF CON 4 and DEF CON 5 and seeing people in an official capacity, I'm now seeing

943
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:12,000
them bring their children and in some cases their grandchildren to DEF CON 20.

944
01:25:12,500 --> 01:25:17,750
I say "Great, bring your kids to DEF CON" because there is no better community to

945
01:25:17,750 --> 01:25:22,000
have your kids around than the people that go to DEF CON. There's every

946
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:27,000
opportunity for them to learn something and as long as you're a good

947
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:33,000
parent, as long as you're a good hacker, anything that they see or experience you

948
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:35,000
can lead them on that path.

949
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:43,000
Yep, so this is plastic. So, this is just a long string of plastic. So it goes into

950
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:46,500
this, this thing melts it. There's a little heater in here that melts it, and

951
01:25:46,500 --> 01:25:50,000
then it squirts it out as the machine... (Just like toothpaste?)

952
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:53,000
Yeah, it's like toothpaste.

953
01:25:54,500 --> 01:25:58,500
This is the second time for DEF CON Kids and the second time that I've been involved

954
01:25:58,500 --> 01:26:06,250
and DEF CON Kids. Last year sort of was just a smaller way to try to get kids and their

955
01:26:06,250 --> 01:26:11,000
parents involved in the hacker community and basically teach kids about lockpicking

956
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:16,250
and soldering and hardware hacking and privacy issues and law enforcement issues,

957
01:26:16,250 --> 01:26:20,000
just all of the things that kids don't normally learn in school.

958
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:26,250
Speaking at DEF CON Kids and working with these kids is almost more exciting to me,

959
01:26:26,250 --> 01:26:31,000
or just as exciting if not more, than giving a talk at DEF CON and having an

960
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:35,500
opportunity to directly influence these kids. It's like an immediate... you can see

961
01:26:35,500 --> 01:26:39,000
it in their eyes, it's this immediate understanding once you show them something.

962
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:42,000
They get it, and that can change their life.

963
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:49,750
I would like to start programming, I would like to start learning the languages

964
01:26:49,750 --> 01:26:54,000
that they mentioned, for example, I would like to start learning python.

965
01:26:54,500 --> 01:27:00,000
What we were thinking of doing is adding some little extra pieces onto here and

966
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:05,000
solder those on and make some other cool programming with the light and make a

967
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:06,750
cool little light show.

968
01:27:07,500 --> 01:27:10,500
The kids love all these speakers and they're the best speakers...

969
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:17,000
and I couldn't believe that DEF CON Kids had these same top speakers addressing

970
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:19,000
our children.

971
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:26,000
We're supportive, helpful, and just want the kids to gain this love of what

972
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:30,500
they're passionate about and sharing it with the world and it's wonderful.

973
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:36,000
This is kind of for the kids to really inspire them to get involved in

974
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:39,500
the hacking community and start doing some things. We've had the privilege to

975
01:27:39,500 --> 01:27:44,000
hear from some really great guys and the kids are excited to go back and start doing things.

976
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:48,000
It's been a lot of fun so far. Even though it's only day 1 and

977
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:52,000
I think we've only had about 4 or 5 hours of sleep, it's been awesome.

978
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:57,000
Well, most interested in, I think, is hacking. I kind of want to be a hacker

979
01:27:57,000 --> 01:28:00,000
when I get older, you know?

980
01:28:00,250 --> 01:28:03,000
I would definitely call myself a hacker.

981
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:12,000
So this is the year that your daughter, your eldest, goes to DEF CON, right?

982
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:19,000
I plan on bringing my 14 year old to CON. This year, hopefully, will be her first

983
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:26,000
year, so I'm hoping to drag her out and show her, not just what I have experienced

984
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:34,250
over the years, but frankly, where she came from. Because at a basic level I have to

985
01:28:34,250 --> 01:28:39,000
explain to my kids that I met your mom at DEF CON 4.

986
01:28:40,500 --> 01:28:45,000
I've asked Dark Tangent for child support and he's like "hahahha.. Who are you?"

987
01:28:46,500 --> 01:28:49,000
That's how it went, really.

988
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:55,000
I don't expect Jeff to know who I am. After all these years, I mean, I've been

989
01:28:55,000 --> 01:29:04,000
going to his shows for 16 years, and that's OK. I feel OK with him not knowing me

990
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:10,000
personally. Because frankly, the dude's got like 20,000 people that some of them expect

991
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:13,000
him to know them personally. And I'm OK with that.

992
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:17,000
If there's a message you want to say to him what would it be?

993
01:29:19,250 --> 01:29:21,000
Thank you, Jeff.

994
01:29:26,250 --> 01:29:30,000
After Capture the Flag I thought that the Scavenger Hunt embodied the hacker

995
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:32,000
spirit the most.

996
01:29:32,500 --> 01:29:36,000
No, No, AAAAAAHH!!

997
01:29:36,750 --> 01:29:39,000
It's a tin foil swim suit.

998
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:42,000
Good Job! (laughter)

999
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:47,000
(laughter)

1000
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:52,000
They're going to suck my blood.

1001
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:57,000
Hi, How are you? Good, I'm here to get my daughter.

1002
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:04,500
We've got a huge list of items and or tasks for the teams to complete.

1003
01:30:04,750 --> 01:30:07,250
By the end of the day or the end of the weekend

1004
01:30:07,500 --> 01:30:09,000
the team with the most points wins.

1005
01:30:09,250 --> 01:30:11,750
There's a lot of activity at the tables constantly

1006
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:15,500
because the list is things to get and things to do and

1007
01:30:15,750 --> 01:30:18,250
things to perform and that sort of thing we get a lot of...

1008
01:30:18,500 --> 01:30:21,000
-find, make... meet. -Activity all around the table.

1009
01:30:21,250 --> 01:30:27,750
We want people to have a good time and ending up in jail generally is not a good time.

1010
01:30:27,751 --> 01:30:34,251
While there may have been things that are a grey area, or could end up being illegal activty...

1011
01:30:34,252 --> 01:30:39,752
I think we come from a community who... knows not to get caught.

1012
01:30:42,002 --> 01:30:45,502
We don't condone fire or stealing mostly...

1013
01:30:45,503 --> 01:30:48,252
Umm... [orgasmic screaming]

1014
01:30:48,502 --> 01:30:53,002
[music playing]

1015
01:31:00,252 --> 01:31:05,752
And I don't know how someone sourced it or found it but, the... head of a cow.

1016
01:31:09,002 --> 01:31:15,502
We put on the scavenger hunt list a live chicken, and I think we got six or something.

1017
01:31:15,752 --> 01:31:20,252
Scavenger hunt winners of the past go on to become goons

1018
01:31:20,502 --> 01:31:24,502
and contest creators and contest organizers and speakers and staff.

1019
01:31:24,752 --> 01:31:31,252
because you have so much social interaction it really engrains you into the community.

1020
01:31:35,502 --> 01:31:41,002
[music playing]

1021
01:33:06,252 --> 01:33:08,752
Oh, on the weekend of DEF CON...

1022
01:33:09,002 --> 01:33:12,502
I think last year we booked 14 shows.

1023
01:33:12,752 --> 01:33:20,252
I issued the ultimatum I'm going to book less shows... and it ends up being more.

1024
01:33:20,502 --> 01:33:27,002
[music playing]

1025
01:33:47,252 --> 01:33:51,752
The thing about DEF CON that I find incredibly fascinating

1026
01:33:52,002 --> 01:33:56,502
is that, yeah.. a lot of these basement dwelling guys that basically...

1027
01:33:56,752 --> 01:34:01,252
are getting tan off of an LCD monitor party the hardest out of anybody I've ever met...

1028
01:34:02,502 --> 01:34:06,002
Like.. Serious rockstars here..

1029
01:34:06,252 --> 01:34:13,752
Everybody just fueled by alchohol and Ballz and any type of A.D.H.D. medication

1030
01:34:14,002 --> 01:34:15,502
they can get their hands on...

1031
01:34:20,752 --> 01:34:27,252
[music playing]

1032
01:35:35,502 --> 01:35:39,002
[Applause]

1033
01:35:39,252 --> 01:35:42,752
Hey, so we are going to kick this thing off...

1034
01:35:43,002 --> 01:35:46,502
we've got really a lot of things to talk about but we've tried to organize it...

1035
01:35:46,752 --> 01:35:50,252
So... This is the 20th year.

1036
01:35:50,502 --> 01:35:53,002
How many people believe that?

1037
01:35:53,252 --> 01:35:55,752
[applause] Yeah...

1038
01:35:56,002 --> 01:36:02,002
So I'm just curious by show of hands.. How many people was this your first DEF CON?

1039
01:36:02,252 --> 01:36:06,752
So we scared away everybody else... [laughter]

1040
01:36:07,002 --> 01:36:11,502
We've got guys that have been helping out for 19 years...

1041
01:36:11,752 --> 01:36:16,252
That's amazing, I would just never have expected that.

1042
01:36:16,502 --> 01:36:22,002
So, I guess I'm most proud of producing something, having a group of people support me...

1043
01:36:22,252 --> 01:36:25,752
that's still doing stuff that people care about.

1044
01:36:26,002 --> 01:36:28,502
So... what I want to do is we want to

1045
01:36:28,752 --> 01:36:31,252
hand it over to Zac Franken

1046
01:36:31,502 --> 01:36:34,502
who's been the head of operations for I don't know...

1047
01:36:34,752 --> 01:36:36,252
closer to 18 years.

1048
01:36:36,502 --> 01:36:40,002
Let's hear a round of applause... Thanks. [Applause]

1049
01:36:43,252 --> 01:36:44,752
Thank you DEF CON 20!

1050
01:36:45,002 --> 01:36:54,502
DEF CON, as Jeff has already said, couldn't exist with out a lot of effort from a lot of people.

1051
01:36:54,752 --> 01:36:59,252
And, in the early years I used to name them all...

1052
01:36:59,502 --> 01:37:02,002
but now there's 300 of them.

1053
01:37:02,252 --> 01:37:04,752
I've trimmed it slightly.

1054
01:37:07,500 --> 01:37:16,000
So, while DEF CON is running, basically I'm almost certainly not having a good time...

1055
01:37:16,250 --> 01:37:20,750
Mainly because I just run around and put out fires.

1056
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:26,750
And of course my friend Jeff who, threw this shindig 20 years ago..

1057
01:37:27,000 --> 01:37:28,500
I can't believe it's still fucking going... but it is...

1058
01:37:28,750 --> 01:37:33,550
I can't believe there's so many people here that had a great time!

1059
01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:38,300
and.. most of all.. thanks to you.. It's you guys that make DEF CON!

1060
01:37:38,550 --> 01:37:43,050
Thank you so much! [Applause]

1061
01:37:46,300 --> 01:37:52,800
DEF CON is not something that happens for us for 3 days in July or August every year...

1062
01:37:53,050 --> 01:37:56,900
it's almost something that we think about and work on and do stuff for

1063
01:37:57,150 --> 01:37:58,650
all year round.

1064
01:37:58,900 --> 01:38:02,400
It becomes almost a part of your identity and I know that sounds kind of weird...

1065
01:38:03,850 --> 01:38:09,150
it's when everything comes together... I know why I stayed up all night...

1066
01:38:09,400 --> 01:38:13,200
so many nights in a row...

1067
01:38:14,450 --> 01:38:22,950
There have been moments where you sit back and you say "That is just absolutely amazing."

1068
01:38:23,200 --> 01:38:25,950
That someone was able to think of that, or several someone's were able to think about that...

1069
01:38:26,200 --> 01:38:27,700
and do that.

1070
01:38:29,500 --> 01:38:34,800
I still love, just how excited people are there... and the fact that you helped...

1071
01:38:35,050 --> 01:38:37,250
to make it happen for them.

1072
01:38:37,500 --> 01:38:42,500
I said to Deviant, it was a really great challenge. Tt was fun to compete and...

1073
01:38:42,750 --> 01:38:48,250
DEF CON was great! Thank you everybody! [Applause]

1074
01:38:48,500 --> 01:38:51,955
This community, is misunderstood by the media...

1075
01:38:53,200 --> 01:38:56,500
and unfortunately, the media is the message out to

1076
01:38:56,750 --> 01:39:00,000
the non geek, non hacker community.

1077
01:39:00,250 --> 01:39:05,539
But the thing that I think came out perhaps this year more than any other year...

1078
01:39:07,836 --> 01:39:12,246
So, I just want to tell you what we've been doing for the last 3 years.

1079
01:39:12,496 --> 01:39:17,850
Year 1 we had 95 people sign up for the Be the Match bone marrow donor registry.

1080
01:39:18,100 --> 01:39:25,459
year 2 was 161 and this year we got 232 people to sign up.

1081
01:39:25,709 --> 01:39:32,333
In addition to that we raised over 3,300 dollars as well.

1082
01:39:32,583 --> 01:39:39,450
More than any other year this one was really about love. With the blood raising, the cancer stuff,

1083
01:39:39,700 --> 01:39:44,078
the huge amount of money for E.F.F... I mean even just saying it or thinking it gives me kind of goose bumps.

1084
01:39:44,328 --> 01:39:47,033
This one was, 20 years of love.

1085
01:39:49,750 --> 01:39:58,875
Ok, we've got some numbers for you. The info booth raised 58 dollars, the firearms simulator 3,620 dollars,

1086
01:40:01,197 --> 01:40:03,658
Mohawks...$4,333

1087
01:40:03,797 --> 01:40:07,977
Eddie Mize, was the artist with the great t-shirts you can still get outside

1088
01:40:07,977 --> 01:40:11,655
of the contest area, $3,500

1089
01:40:11,905 --> 01:40:20,957
The Summit, 1,500...789 dollars... $15,000...$15,789!

1090
01:40:20,957 --> 01:40:26,091
(applause)

1091
01:40:26,092 --> 01:40:33,217
And Hacker Jeopardy, for a total of $30,380...so thank you,

1092
01:40:33,217 --> 01:40:34,935
thank you very much! (applause)

1093
01:40:36,491 --> 01:40:42,143
(laughs) So I'm going to go over here

1094
01:40:42,443 --> 01:40:48,635
So...you have to understand, he's made this promise for what, 3 years in a row now?

1095
01:40:48,635 --> 01:40:54,533
This is beautiful, we have been waiting for this, time for Jeff to get his hawk.

1096
01:40:54,533 --> 01:41:15,036
(cheering) (applause)

1097
01:41:15,036 --> 01:41:19,354
Now, Jeff failed to mention that he has like 6 different meetings with incredibly

1098
01:41:19,354 --> 01:41:24,648
important people around the world in the next couple of weeks

1099
01:41:24,648 --> 01:41:29,734
You know, it's actually really nice fulfilling a promise (laughs), cause now

1100
01:41:29,734 --> 01:41:31,453
they can't bug me (laughs)

1101
01:41:31,453 --> 01:41:31,753
True!

1102
01:41:31,753 --> 01:41:35,539
That's true, now, but I haven't decided, don't I have to donate money to the EFF

1103
01:41:35,539 --> 01:41:36,874
for this? (applause)

1104
01:41:36,874 --> 01:41:41,321
Of course! (applause) (cheering)

1105
01:41:41,321 --> 01:41:49,518
I was thinking maybe $10,000 (cheering) (laughs)

1106
01:41:49,518 --> 01:41:57,447
What do you think? That's probably a pretty good thing...(laughs) (cheering)

1107
01:41:57,482 --> 01:41:59,269
(cheering) (applause)

1108
01:41:59,547 --> 01:42:05,152
Thank you very much, see you next year! Woo!

1109
01:42:05,152 --> 01:42:13,722
(cheering) (applause)

1110
01:42:13,722 --> 01:42:18,125
I joke with Jeff that he could cancel it tomorrow, like legitimately

1111
01:42:18,125 --> 01:42:20,934
cancel it, say "Screw it, I'm done. I'm going to do something else with my time."

1112
01:42:20,934 --> 01:42:25,718
And DEF CON would still happen, it would continue to happen. Everybody would just

1113
01:42:25,718 --> 01:42:28,828
go to Vegas anyways. Eventually people would start talking about stuff. Eventually

1114
01:42:28,828 --> 01:42:32,173
they'd say, "Let's go down to the bar and take over this empty conference room and

1115
01:42:32,173 --> 01:42:35,517
talk about it." And DEF CON would continue to happen organically, probably

1116
01:42:35,517 --> 01:42:38,535
for years after we just walked away from it.

1117
01:42:38,535 --> 01:42:44,387
So, for those of you who aren't in the conference business, what happens is you

1118
01:42:44,387 --> 01:42:50,470
sign hotel contracts for years in the future. You have to look into the future

1119
01:42:50,470 --> 01:42:54,069
and decide, "Ok, 2 years from now, are we going to be burned out? Are people

1120
01:42:54,069 --> 01:42:56,402
even want to come to DEF CON 2 years in the future or 3 years in the future?"

1121
01:42:56,402 --> 01:43:01,100
Because you have to sign these hotel contracts years in advance, and so who

1122
01:43:01,100 --> 01:43:04,924
could you hand this off to? Or who would want to take on that responsibility?

1123
01:43:04,924 --> 01:43:11,763
And I think the conclusion I've come to is, I'd probably just stop.

1124
01:43:13,028 --> 01:43:17,277
You know, and I'd...people could continue the organization, continue, they'd just

1125
01:43:17,277 --> 01:43:21,492
name it something different. I'd give them all my projectors, it would carry on

1126
01:43:21,492 --> 01:43:24,905
maybe under a different name, but it probably wouldn't carry on under the

1127
01:43:24,905 --> 01:43:30,385
DEF CON name. The only scenario I figured that out was if I get hit by a bus and I die

1128
01:43:30,385 --> 01:43:34,227
and I want to have the final DEF CON, huge party, though somebody would have to

1129
01:43:34,227 --> 01:43:38,152
plan that, cause I wouldn't be around.

1130
01:43:39,800 --> 01:43:54,890
(music playing)

1131
01:43:55,790 --> 01:44:00,037
I don't know why, every year, honestly. Every year after DEF CON, I think half

1132
01:44:00,037 --> 01:44:05,889
the senior staff says never again. All of us, we're all, "Yeah me too, me too."

1133
01:44:06,139 --> 01:44:12,042
And then all your friends, I have friends all over the world that DEF CON for sure

1134
01:44:12,292 --> 01:44:18,683
they show up to. And, you get wound up, you get excited for it, you look forward

1135
01:44:18,933 --> 01:44:28,595
to the experience again. So ... yeah, we forget how much it hurt.

1136
01:44:29,641 --> 01:44:37,827
Yeah, I do it, I've been doing it for a long time. You know, my second, she's 10

1137
01:44:38,077 --> 01:44:41,287
years younger than I am, she's been doing it for 5 years. She's probably due for

1138
01:44:41,537 --> 01:44:46,452
her shot to do it, and I can be the old grey beard that shows up at DEF CON, just

1139
01:44:46,702 --> 01:44:50,556
sits in the corner has a beer, and reminisces.

1140
01:44:53,733 --> 01:44:59,480
I can honestly say that without that first DEF CON, and without, you know, shaking

1141
01:44:59,730 --> 01:45:04,228
hands and meeting people, becoming a Goon, I wouldn't be the position that I'm

1142
01:45:04,478 --> 01:45:07,665
in now, and I wouldn't have the career and the means to support my family that

1143
01:45:07,915 --> 01:45:09,870
I do now.

1144
01:45:10,120 --> 01:45:13,191
It's outside of my imagination, missing a DEF CON.

1145
01:45:13,441 --> 01:45:18,044
When I started, it was like, "Oh my God, I found my home!" and that was, that's

1146
01:45:18,294 --> 01:45:19,484
kind of where it started, for me.

1147
01:45:19,734 --> 01:45:25,394
Once I got to the first one, I was hooked from that point on.

1148
01:45:25,644 --> 01:45:29,247
It's a degenerate family reunion.

1149
01:45:30,234 --> 01:45:34,553
These people are my family. It's a family reunion, you gotta come every year and

1150
01:45:34,803 --> 01:45:35,645
see everyone.

1151
01:45:35,895 --> 01:45:42,344
Basically, if you go once, you're hooked. DEF CON is, it's an experience like

1152
01:45:42,594 --> 01:45:47,115
nothing else. It's great people and a great atmosphere, and I think from the

1153
01:45:47,365 --> 01:45:50,366
time that I went, I knew that I would always go, that I would find a way to

1154
01:45:50,616 --> 01:45:55,858
make sure that I was there every year, and 13 years later I'm still going.

1155
01:45:56,108 --> 01:46:02,453
These people aren't just my friends, they're my family, you know, and I genuinely

1156
01:46:02,703 --> 01:46:05,773
genuinely love them.

1157
01:46:08,467 --> 01:48:43,401
(music playing)

1158
01:48:43,651 --> 01:48:48,522
I don't believe it's appropriate to talk about that on camera. (laughs)

1159
01:48:48,972 --> 01:48:50,821
Ah, I can't discuss that.

1160
01:48:52,062 --> 01:48:56,996
I'll tell the story, but I don't think we should actually ... (yeah)

1161
01:48:57,246 --> 01:49:00,050
No, no naming names, no naming names (laughing)

1162
01:49:00,300 --> 01:49:02,651
We'll tell you off-camera (laughing)

1163
01:49:02,901 --> 01:49:07,886
I can neither confirm nor deny that. (Yeah) Sorry.

1164
01:49:08,654 --> 01:49:11,497
All right! Edit that out... (laughing)

1165
01:49:11,747 --> 01:49:16,339
Nothing I'm going to admit on camera at this time, and 'til the statutes of

1166
01:49:16,589 --> 01:49:20,274
limitations run out. And then I'm happy to admit it later on, that's once we've

1167
01:49:20,524 --> 01:49:22,259
you know, checked with the lawyers and all that stuff.

1168
01:49:23,827 --> 01:49:29,307
I think half of the experiences of my life that I attribute back to ...

1169
01:49:29,557 --> 01:49:33,371
happened at DEF CON. I don't know how many of them I can talk about, I probably

1170
01:49:33,621 --> 01:49:41,138
can't talk about any of them. I really would like to, but, ahh, I ...

1171
01:49:41,388 --> 01:50:10,349
(music playing)

1172
01:50:11,000 --> 01:50:27,000
Transcription by: Anch, Phorkus, AlxRogan, Medic, Panadero, and Russr