0:00:04.000,0:00:39.000
(music playing)

0:00:41.500,0:00:51.000


0:00:52.750,0:00:54.000
What the fuck, dude!

0:00:55.000,0:00:56.000
What the fuck!

0:00:58.000,0:00:59.000
Oh shit! There we go!

0:01:01.360,0:02:25.013
(music playing)

0:02:31.000,0:02:31.851
The history.

0:02:33.152,0:02:34.800
I had been running the Dark Tangent System,

0:02:34.900,0:02:36.800
that was the name of my bulletin board system.

0:02:37.700,0:02:41.400
The bulletin board was known around the world, we were on international FIDO networks.

0:02:43.500,0:02:46.800
And one of those networks called Platinum NET out of Canada, was going away.

0:02:47.000,0:02:48.000
He was shutting it down.

0:02:49.000,0:02:52.500
I was the biggest node, I had the most users, and I distributed to the United States.

0:02:53.000,0:02:57.000
And he wanted to throw a party, a going away party for all of his Platinum NET users.

0:02:58.000,0:03:00.000
But he didn't want to do it in Canada, and all of his users were in the states,

0:03:00.400,0:03:03.800
and so we were talking, he says "Well you should do it, we should work together."

0:03:04.500,0:03:08.700
And I said "Great. Let's do it in Vegas." That makes the most sense, cheap airfare.

0:03:09.500,0:03:13.000
And he said "Sounds good." And I mean, this happened over the course of less than a week.

0:03:13.400,0:03:13.800
It was really brief.

0:03:14.500,0:03:16.600
And then all of a sudden he disappeared, Platinum NET went down,

0:03:17.200,0:03:20.100
and all these years, 20 years later, I never heard from the guy again.

0:03:20.200,0:03:22.800
I can't even remember his name, it's been so long.

0:03:23.000,0:03:28.500
So when he disappeared, I had already started planning to do this going away party

0:03:28.600,0:03:29.000
for Platinum NET.

0:03:29.500,0:03:34.500
So instead, I invited all my networks and it went from being a going away party to, a party.

0:03:35.800,0:03:40.500
There was HoHoCon, there was an XCon. There was PUMPCON, Summercon.

0:03:40.900,0:03:43.600
But there was no real west coast con. So we figured, OK...

0:03:45.000,0:03:46.500
So it ended up being DEF CON.

0:03:48.800,0:03:51.800
The first one, there was a flier that went out and that kind of circulated

0:03:52.000,0:03:56.100
around on some of the sites, and, and I think that's how I came across it initially.

0:03:56.400,0:04:00.100
I'm assuming it was because of a book I wrote, or maybe my congressional testimony

0:04:00.300,0:04:04.100
I don't know, but somehow he had contacted me to come out and speak.

0:04:06.100,0:04:08.100
I actually didn't wanna go to the first DEF CON.

0:04:09.500,0:04:12.900
I did not want to go to the first DEF CON. A number of my friends were going.

0:04:13.000,0:04:15.600
They were trying to get me to go, they kept telling me it was going to be fun

0:04:15.900,0:04:18.200
and I kept thinking to myself, "I've never been to Las Vegas before",

0:04:18.300,0:04:23.100
and you know, I used to go to BBS user meets, and well, a lot of them

0:04:23.200,0:04:24.800
are pretty lame and I thought to myself

0:04:24.900,0:04:29.800
"OK, this is just going to be a BBS user meet... in Vegas."

0:04:30.100,0:04:34.600
Jeff contacted me somehow, said "You wanna come out to Vegas?"

0:04:34.800,0:04:37.800
I said, "Well, I don't like Vegas." "Come out and speak and there's

0:04:37.800,0:04:41.500
a bunch of people, Phil Zimmerman, and a couple of other folks," and...

0:04:42.400,0:04:43.500
DEF CON 1.

0:04:44.200,0:04:48.300
And I had a blast. I had so much fun.

0:04:49.100,0:04:52.500
It felt we were part of something that was really kinda legitimized

0:04:53.000,0:04:57.100
because there was this event around it, you know, it wasn't just,

0:04:57.300,0:05:00.500
you know, random people that you might have known or heard, or it wasn't

0:05:01.000,0:05:04.500
somebody (in the phone phreak world) on the end of a toll-free

0:05:04.600,0:05:08.600
loop around that you called at midnight. "Hey, who's there?"

0:05:08.700,0:05:14.700
So, I ended up meeting a lot of people, some of whom I'm still friends with to this day...out of all of that.

0:05:15.000,0:05:19.100
And I remember, after the first DEF CON was over, and I was back home, and I

0:05:19.300,0:05:24.300
was decompressing, somebody wrote me on UUCP in my email. Wrote me an

0:05:24.400,0:05:27.100
email and said "Hey, that was great. When are you doing it again?"

0:05:28.800,0:05:31.600
Until I had gotten that email, I had never thought of doing it again.

0:05:32.100,0:05:36.000
And then I thought, "You know, I could probably make this better. I could

0:05:36.100,0:05:40.000
change this, I could..." and then that started it, that was all, game over from there.

0:05:41.800,0:05:45.400
It was, every year, what can I make better, what went wrong, how do I fix it.

0:05:45.600,0:05:49.800
And that geek sort of fix-it mentality kicks in, and you're always trying to improve it.

0:05:50.100,0:05:55.000
It's sort of like this challenge you'll never solve, but you keep wanting to make it better.

0:05:59.100,0:06:09.200
(music playing)

0:06:10.800,0:06:14.100
The people who missed a few years. the differences between their experiences

0:06:14.200,0:06:15.800
is going to be pretty radically different.

0:06:20.600,0:06:29.400
DEF CON 1 was around 100 people, and we expect roughly 15,000 for DEF CON 20.

0:06:34.800,0:06:42.400
We work nonstop. I haven't seen 4th of July in like 7 years.

0:06:43.300,0:06:47.500
It's crazy that DEF CON, you can label it as a hobby, takes so much time.

0:06:47.700,0:06:51.500
Because it seems like pretty much from the moment DEF CON ends until the time

0:06:51.700,0:06:52.800
that we're spinning it up again, we're busy.

0:06:53.400,0:06:57.000
You know, technically I retired 2 years ago, but I can't give it up,

0:06:57.200,0:07:01.000
because it's such a part of me. I'm giving back to the same culture

0:07:01.200,0:07:02.700
that spawned me.

0:07:03.500,0:07:07.900
DEF CON for the last 10 years, especially, has been a very big part of my life.

0:07:08.000,0:07:13.600
It consumes most of my free time. DEF CON starts, for me, the day after DEF CON is over,

0:07:13.700,0:07:15.800
for the next year.

0:07:20.700,0:07:25.400
It's going to be amazing. We have so many surprises planned for the attendees.

0:07:27.200,0:07:31.100
It's going to be remarkable. This is going to be a really, really special year.

0:07:32.300,0:07:33.800
If you're sleeping, you're doing it wrong.

0:07:35.800,0:07:39.700
A lot of people who are hardcore DEF CON attendees, or staff, they negotiate

0:07:39.800,0:07:43.800
when they change jobs. "That's fine, everything's good, but I need to take,

0:07:43.900,0:07:45.200
you know, 2 weeks off."

0:07:45.300,0:07:51.400
I never thought that my party would be a job employment prerequisite.

0:07:53.600,0:07:58.100
(music playing)

0:07:59.100,0:08:03.000
I am not kidding, I am expecting another well orchestrated, well-oiled machine,

0:08:03.100,0:08:09.300
coming together and producing this amazing gathering of geeks.

0:08:09.600,0:08:13.700
No kidding, it's what we do. We come together and we do the HELL out of it.

0:08:13.800,0:08:16.900
And I expect it to happen this year.

0:08:19.100,0:08:36.000
(music playing)

0:08:37.200,0:08:40.299
There's absolutely a difference between driving and flying.

0:08:42.200,0:08:46.100
When Utah group, for example, used to go down to DEF CON, years and years

0:08:46.200,0:08:51.200
and years ago, there was a whole process where basically we gathered at this

0:08:51.300,0:08:56.100
restaurant called "D's", or we called it "Freaky D's", at like 2am,

0:08:56.200,0:09:03.400
and basically 20 or 30 of us piled into the restaurant and we'd have our caravan

0:09:03.500,0:09:06.900
of cars all set together, and that was our group of people.

0:09:08.200,0:09:12.600
There are some hijinks that I can't even imagine mentioning on the documentary,

0:09:12.700,0:09:20.100
that can happen on a long 9 hour drive from the Denver area to Las Vegas.

0:09:21.500,0:09:24.300
When you're driving, to get there, especially from the west coast,

0:09:24.400,0:09:27.600
you have to drive through the middle of fucking nowhere.

0:09:30.100,0:09:33.900
And it certainly adds to the experience when you roll in, and it's just after

0:09:34.000,0:09:39.000
sunrise, or just about sunset, you really have no idea what time it is, and there's

0:09:39.100,0:09:43.200
Sin City, and of course you're playing "Viva Las Vegas" by the Dead Kennedys

0:09:43.300,0:09:46.400
or something like that. It does add to the experience I think.

0:09:48.000,0:09:52.999
(music playing)

0:09:53.000,0:09:55.000
"Actually, here comes the Hack Bus now." "Pretty awesome!"

0:10:02.841,0:10:08.838
It kind of blows my mind that everyone's so excited about going to a BBQ

0:10:08.937,0:10:15.005
six miles away from the con that have to rent a taxi for, or go to the store and get food.

0:10:15.538,0:10:22.163
I don't know. I just feel like the BBQ is this misfit love child of DEF CON,

0:10:22.794,0:10:30.049
because everyone's, "There's this thing that happens over there and they're grilling alligator and elk and all this crazy meat."

0:10:30.242,0:10:36.522
"Why can't we ever go? Where is it?" And that kind of adds to the mystery and fun of it.

0:10:36.722,0:10:38.232
(Music playing)

0:10:38.698,0:10:44.222
Man, did I never expect that to become something a thousand people strong, now.

0:10:44.640,0:10:48.268
(Music Playing)

0:10:48.914,0:10:51.895
To me that shows an awesome community and spirit, and an effort of

0:10:52.595,0:10:58.425
"I want to see my friends and hang out with them and I wanna do something simple, like eat some food."

0:10:59.071,0:11:04.513
You know, it's not at the con, there's no crazy music, it's just a BBQ.

0:11:05.681,0:11:10.680
Ever since I was in town around DEF CON 10 or 11 you see those signs in the

0:11:11.123,0:11:15.476
airport, "Come Shoot a Machine Gun." Which, you know, is fine for me,

0:11:16.122,0:11:18.661
I've done that, but a lot of my friends said, "Man, I'd love to do that!"

0:11:18.741,0:11:22.731
Well, I said, let's just go out in the desert, I'm sure we can find a nice group rate, and

0:11:23.377,0:11:25.996
and we'll shoot out in a sand pit, and everyone had a blast, and they said

0:11:26.642,0:11:28.535
"Boy! This was great, you want to do this again?"

0:11:29.181,0:11:32.446
So now, there's just this well known, public shooting spot,

0:11:32.525,0:11:36.799
way out on the Lovell Canyon Rd, where anyone can go and

0:11:37.241,0:11:40.506
shoot what they want, as long as they police up the area. And we use it and it's

0:11:41.515,0:11:44.780
again, much like DEF CON itself, getting popular and growing.

0:11:45.222,0:11:49.496
Now we have canopies and tables rented, that I arrange. There's a small per head fee,

0:11:49.575,0:11:53.849
just to cover that. We had a hundred people on the line last year. We've got damn near that

0:11:53.928,0:11:58.202
many registered this year. We're going to stay safe and see what we can make happen!

0:11:58.281,0:12:02.997
(Gun shots, talking)

0:12:03.281,0:12:07.997
Can everyone hear me, over the reports, over the berm? (Yes, yes mumbles, Alright)

0:12:08.076,0:12:13.076
All firearms are always what? Loaded! They are always loaded!

0:12:13.155,0:12:18.155
Nothing is ever an unloaded firearm. You always point the firearm where?

0:12:18.234,0:12:22.587
where? In a safe direction. In a safe direction.

0:12:23.234,0:12:27.303
Yes. The key point being, not just being what is your target, but what is beyond it!

0:12:27.587,0:12:32.303
The hacker community, you can never put a single hat on anybody, but there's a libertarian undercurrent to

0:12:32.382,0:12:37.382
a lot of our membership, so being able to treat guns as, well, that's this piece of equipment

0:12:37.461,0:12:42.177
if you use it the right way, it's great. It percolates through most minds.

0:12:42.461,0:12:46.893
So, you get the occasional raised eyebrow, but half the time that's the person who's, like,

0:12:47.177,0:12:51.893
"I'm gonna go see exactly what you think is so fun," and they're out there shooting a cannon, or

0:12:51.972,0:12:56.688
an automatic rifle, and they say, "Boy, I get this."

0:12:56.972,0:13:11.846
(Bullets plinking, ricochets, music, cannon booms.)

0:13:12.651,0:13:18.455
I think it was the year when it was at the Aladdin, and we'd forgotten to sort of clean up our

0:13:18.739,0:13:24.500
room, or we didn't think the maid was gonna show up as early as they did, and we had gone off to breakfast, and we came back

0:13:24.900,0:13:30.347
and the maid had been in the room, and cleaned the room, and organized all of the drugs!

0:13:30.426,0:13:36.229
So there's a little pile of acid, and a little pile of ecstacy, and some other pills, and they're

0:13:36.230,0:13:42.318
in nice, neat little piles, and everybody's like, "Well, I guess things are different in Las Vegas."

0:13:44.574,0:13:49.574
You've got to put the convention in a 24 hour city.

0:13:50.015,0:13:55.015
You know, it's got to be like a New York, or Vegas, or maybe a San Francisco, because

0:13:55.094,0:14:00.094
hackers get bored, and there's got to be something for them to do. And I saw what happened when you had a lot of bored hackers running around.

0:14:00.536,0:14:04.888
You know, a lot of activities in the computer underground

0:14:04.889,0:14:09.604
would happen after midnight. That's just the way it is. So, you know,

0:14:09.605,0:14:14.320
the fact that people can move around, and not be noticed as much being

0:14:14.321,0:14:18.673
a group moving around at midnight, that kind of added to the appeal.

0:14:18.674,0:14:23.026
I'm big on privacy. Nevada still respects people's personal privacy.

0:14:23.027,0:14:27.379
You know, your hotel room is considered your domicile.

0:14:27.380,0:14:31.732
It sounded fun... you know, just a bunch of computer people, it just seemed like

0:14:31.733,0:14:36.733
my group was in Vegas and it sounded like a really, really fun time.

0:14:36.812,0:14:41.527
So, that, you know, whole underworld connotation of it all,

0:14:41.528,0:14:46.528
was very attractive to me.

0:14:47.332,0:14:52.695
So I feel like there's gonna be a stream of people really dedicated, like, "We're gonna be first! We're gonna be first in line!"

0:14:53.136,0:14:57.488
I wanna make sure I get a badge. That was my biggest concern since my first DEF CON, and I wanna make sure I walk away with a badge.

0:14:57.489,0:15:02.127
We're all DEF CON virgins, we gotta pop that DEF CON cherry. Get those badges!

0:15:02.931,0:15:07.283
INTERVIEWER: How many hours do you have before you get your badges?

0:15:07.284,0:15:11.636
At least nine hours now?

0:15:11.637,0:15:19.617
(Background noise)

0:15:19.618,0:15:27.598
Ok, and that's $20. So, that's $20 plus $20 tip for you.

0:15:27.599,0:15:35.865
Thank you very much! Yes, we drink. Good! What are we drinking? Stop recording, please!

0:15:35.943,0:15:43.560
We've got pizza. Pizza is GOOD! Alright.

0:15:43.561,0:15:51.827
Jet-Lag has sunk in. It looks like he's using a pizza box for a pillow.

0:15:51.905,0:15:55.894
We will not abandon our posts.

0:15:55.895,0:16:13.308
(Music and background noise.)

0:16:13.309,0:16:31.008
(Music, background noise, and crowd control.)

0:16:31.811,0:16:47.333
(Music and background noise.)

0:16:47.774,0:16:53.215
This is my first DEF CON badge! INTERVIEWER: Now what made you decided you were going to come to DEF CON?

0:16:53.216,0:16:59.305
My husband's work decided to send him, and I started going through all of the videos

0:16:59.746,0:17:05.549
that they had for DEF CON 19, and I started looking at that and going, "Oh, this is really cool!"

0:17:05.550,0:17:11.353
This is the 20th DEF CON, and I've been wanting to do it for years, and it was just one of those things that just sort of lined up,

0:17:11.354,0:17:16.069
all the moons lined up perfectly.

0:17:16.069,0:17:21.873
Definitely heard a lot about the con. It's a somewhat affordable con, and there's lots of technical discussions.

0:17:21.874,0:17:27.963
A whole bunch of really smart people that probably know more than I do, most of them, so I hope to learn something.

0:17:28.040,0:17:34.130
You know, an opportunity to hang out with those people who really know what's going on.

0:17:34.571,0:17:38.760
You know, it's too enticing to miss out on.

0:17:38.924,0:17:42.551
I thought this would be an amazing place to just meet really intelligent people.

0:17:42.552,0:17:46.541
So, now I'm here and I'm really excited!

0:17:46.542,0:17:50.531
To meet a lot of interesting people and learn a lot and have a lot of fun at once.

0:17:50.532,0:17:54.521
It's kind of, you know, a big congregation of

0:17:54.522,0:17:58.710
people who live anonymously online, get to actually

0:17:58.875,0:18:02.501
socialize in person, and not have to worry about,

0:18:02.502,0:18:05.403
you know, revealing their identity.

0:18:05.404,0:18:09.593
Well, I've read all kinds of dire warnings about using anything

0:18:10.845,0:18:14.109
that's potential hackable, and nearly anything is hackable.

0:18:14.110,0:18:17.737
I was told to take the battery out of my phone.

0:18:17.738,0:18:21.927
You know, I've got a check list sort of in my mind, you know, kilt,

0:18:22.091,0:18:25.717
colored hair, drinking before 10am I haven't seen quite just yet...

0:18:25.718,0:18:29.908
Every single device in the world has some kind of computer in it, and they all

0:18:30.071,0:18:34.261
have vulnerabilities one way or another and this is information of

0:18:34.787,0:18:38.977
what those vulnerabilities could be and how to fix them and improve it for the future.

0:18:39.503,0:18:44.418
INTERVIEWER: Are you the teacher? - Yes. INTERVIEWER: You are the teacher, and this is your first DEF CON?

0:18:44.582,0:18:49.297
- Yes. INTERVIEWER: And you thought to take a pack of neophyte students into

0:18:49.298,0:18:54.213
Las Vegas to go to a hacking conference? - Yes. INTERVIEWER: Do you have tenure?

0:18:58.730,0:19:02.719
Rule Number One: Follow the 3-2-1 rule. DAILY.

0:19:02.720,0:19:06.709
And please bear in mind, these are minimums,

0:19:06.710,0:19:11.062
at a minimum, three hours of sleep.

0:19:11.063,0:19:15.415
Two meals. One shower.

0:19:15.416,0:19:19.968
By tomorrow afternoon, the pungent and stank aroma

0:19:20.132,0:19:24.484
of many DEF CON attendees will waft through the air and hit you like a Mack Truck.

0:19:24.485,0:19:29.037
So, remember, you plus deodorant equals everybody wins!

0:19:29.201,0:19:32.827
(Laughter)

0:19:32.828,0:19:36.930
I, like many people here, will not remember your real name.

0:19:36.931,0:19:42.009
There are lots of Steves, Jeffs, Chrises, and Bills, but maybe only one, maybe two, with your unique handle.

0:19:42.010,0:19:47.451
Hopefully, you've picked a good and unique handle to avoid conflicts in the namespace.

0:19:47.452,0:19:59.198
(Music)

0:19:59.199,0:20:05.000
Create a good handle for yourself, before someone creates it for you.

0:20:16.000,0:20:20.000
So I've got a question. Who here is from other countries?

0:20:20.000,0:20:23.000
WOW. (applause)

0:20:23.000,0:20:26.000
That's impressive, thank you for coming all the way to join us, you guys,

0:20:26.000,0:20:28.000
that's awesome that you came out.

0:20:30.500,0:20:34.000
DEF CON is truly an event and a conference where you get out

0:20:34.000,0:20:36.000
what you put into it.

0:20:36.250,0:20:41.000
DEF CON is the one time a year where everything that we do year-round

0:20:41.000,0:20:43.000
actually becomes physical.

0:20:43.000,0:20:46.000
All these people that you've met in IRC, All these people you've been chatting to,

0:20:46.000,0:20:49.000
All these people you've been reading their research, following their work,

0:20:49.000,0:20:51.000
looking at the different things they're publishing... They're here.

0:20:51.750,0:20:55.000
Walk up to them, tell them that you like their work, and buy them a beer.

0:20:55.000,0:20:57.000
They'll probably be your best friend.

0:20:57.000,0:21:00.000
That's one of the biggest things about this crowd you've got to really swallow

0:21:00.000,0:21:03.000
is the fact we're all super, super approachable.

0:21:05.000,0:21:10.000
You can be a wallflower here and still get a lot out of it, but you're not gonna

0:21:10.000,0:21:13.000
get your 200 bucks worth, frankly.

0:21:13.000,0:21:16.000
You're gonna have to interact, work with people, get to know people,

0:21:16.000,0:21:18.000
go party with people.

0:21:18.000,0:21:22.000
If you don't know something, be proud of that. Be like "I don't know this.

0:21:22.000,0:21:25.000
Can you please teach me? Can you please educate me and train me?"

0:21:25.000,0:21:29.000
This crowd loves spinning people up.

0:21:29.000,0:21:32.000
Take the time to go in and learn from these people. They're geniuses,

0:21:32.000,0:21:35.000
truly geniuses, and some of the best in the world in whatever it is

0:21:35.000,0:21:39.000
that they're presenting or working with. So, take advantage of it, you guys, OK?

0:21:41.500,0:21:45.000
Alright, the next rule is one that basically says

0:21:45.000,0:21:49.000
"The media is not your friend. Don't trust them." (laughter)

0:21:54.750,0:21:59.000
INTERVIEWER: What do you think is the number 1 thing people misunderstand

0:21:57.000,0:21:59.000
when they show up to DEF CON?

0:21:59.000,0:22:06.000
That it's a den of illegal activity and you're gonna come learn how to do really

0:22:06.000,0:22:12.000
neat, illegal, black hat, gonna get in trouble if the FBI shows up at your door

0:22:12.000,0:22:18.000
and you should show up with your ski mask on just so no one can know your identity.

0:22:20.000,0:22:22.000
INTERVIEWER: What is it actually then?

0:22:22.000,0:22:28.000
It's a publicly funded, private party for a bunch of really cool people.

0:22:29.000,0:22:35.000
Yeah, our reputation is ... it's out there, but people are proud of it

0:22:35.000,0:22:39.000
and I'm probably the only one who tries to go around and go "It wasn't quite like that,

0:22:39.000,0:22:42.000
it was sorta like this."

0:22:43.000,0:22:51.000
I don't think people understand how much goes into creating a show of this size.

0:22:54.000,0:22:59.000
DEF CON looks like this big amorphous jellyfish of people everywhere, but what I hadn't

0:22:59.000,0:23:02.000
realized is that there is really a lot of stuff that goes on on the back end

0:23:02.000,0:23:05.000
to keep it running like clockwork.

0:23:05.000,0:23:09.000
That's what makes DEF CON so exciting. It's super organic, is the way I see it.

0:23:09.000,0:23:13.000
If you're inflexible, it doesn't work with DEF CON because there's too many

0:23:13.000,0:23:17.000
people and you'll just break, and that's just the reality of it.

0:23:17.000,0:23:21.000
I always joke for me it's an opportunity to spend 4 days out of the year

0:23:21.000,0:23:24.000
not caring about computers or computer security.

0:23:24.000,0:23:31.000
Everybody's Christmas, New Year's, Birthday, Anniversary, wrapped up into one, for hackers.

0:23:31.000,0:23:37.000
It's an experience that's not like anything that anybody has described because it's

0:23:37.000,0:23:40.000
kind of something you can make what you want out of it.

0:23:42.000,0:23:46.000
You can show up and you can just go to talks and you can sit there and get that

0:23:46.000,0:23:51.000
out of the conference or you can show up and just party. You can show up and hang

0:23:51.000,0:23:55.000
out in your hotel room with a bunch of friends. When it comes down to it,

0:23:55.000,0:24:00.000
you're the driver of the experience. It's not a pony show where you can just, you know,

0:24:00.000,0:24:05.000
sit down in a seat and let it unfold before you. The more active you become

0:24:05.000,0:24:08.000
inside the con the more fun you can have.

0:24:31.000,0:24:34.000
For me, I think it's more social.

0:24:35.000,0:24:39.000
Mainly, for me, it's just a lot of close friends that I get to meet once a year

0:24:39.000,0:24:42.000
because of the diversity of where they all live in the United States.

0:24:42.000,0:24:45.000
So this is kind of like a meeting point.

0:24:45.000,0:24:50.000
Go out there, be social, just run into people and say "hi" and just strike up a

0:24:50.000,0:24:53.000
conversation because you will meet interesting people here.

0:24:53.000,0:24:58.000
It's fantastic, everybody is friendly. I can sit down and talk to anybody and I

0:24:58.000,0:25:04.000
just ask them "what do you do" and they're happy to tell me about what kind of

0:25:04.000,0:25:07.500
employment they do or the hobbies that they're in. It's just striking up

0:25:07.500,0:25:10.500
conversations. That's my personal favorite.

0:25:11.000,0:25:17.250
It's a combination of the people who I run into at DEF CON and just sort of the atmosphere.

0:25:17.250,0:25:27.000
It's like a giant party that doesn't want to end but there is a lot of

0:25:27.000,0:25:35.000
really smart people in one place and it's just, there is really no other place like it.

0:25:39.000,0:25:50.000
(music playing)

0:25:55.000,0:26:20.000
(music playing)

0:26:23.000,0:26:27.000
The first qualification, if you will, to be a vendor at DEF CON is "how are you

0:26:27.000,0:26:31.000
providing back to the hacker community at large." A lot of money goes through

0:26:31.000,0:26:37.000
there. It's kind of staggering. One thing that we try and do is most of these

0:26:37.000,0:26:41.000
guys, most of the vendors if you walk around that room, this isn't their primary

0:26:41.000,0:26:45.000
business. These are people that are in the community. Take a look at these guys.

0:26:45.000,0:26:49.000
They're only doing this this time of year and it's only to provide something to the

0:26:49.000,0:26:52.000
community that they think is neat. Those are the kind of folks that

0:26:52.000,0:26:56.000
definitely get a priority when I'm looking through applications.

0:27:00.000,0:27:20.000
(music playing)

0:27:20.500,0:27:22.500
INTERVIEWER: It looks like you're doing things right.

0:27:22.500,0:27:27.000
Ok, is this on? Oh, Boy! Ok...

0:27:27.000,0:27:30.500
What I've tried to do with the whole hacking community is raise the level

0:27:30.500,0:27:35.000
of discourse, that's the thing is, to bring information, to make it

0:27:35.000,0:27:39.000
accessible and widely dispersed at a reasonable price and make people happy.

0:27:39.000,0:27:42.500
And if i put a smile on their face it's like "Wow, really, that's a great price and

0:27:42.500,0:27:47.000
I get that too?" That's good. I don't need every last dollar. What are you gonna do

0:27:47.000,0:27:49.000
with dollars anyway? They're just numbers.

0:27:49.500,0:27:53.500
Our main job actually is to create mayhem. That's actually what we've been asked by

0:27:53.500,0:27:56.500
the management. Make sure we create a lot of mayhem. We actually have official

0:27:56.500,0:28:02.000
DEF CON 8 posters from years ago that we found, so, we're not selling them,

0:28:02.000,0:28:06.000
we're giving them away, but you have to convince us to give you one, and that

0:28:06.000,0:28:12.000
requires mayhem in the dealer's room of some sort that we don't officially support

0:28:12.000,0:28:16.000
but for some reason they end up with a poster. Who knew, right?

0:28:16.000,0:28:22.000
We are simplewifi.com. We are long range wireless made easy. We custom make all of

0:28:22.000,0:28:27.500
our antennas in Miami, Florida, so if you want to go creating a hotspot around your

0:28:27.500,0:28:32.500
whole neighborhood or you have that guy with an unfortunately has an open signal and

0:28:32.500,0:28:36.500
you don't want to pay for Wi-Fi you can set your antenna pointing right at it,

0:28:36.500,0:28:39.000
grab that signal and you have Internet for free.

0:28:40.000,0:28:45.000
The people that want something one year that you didn't bring, invariably won't

0:28:45.000,0:28:50.000
want it next year. It's like everyone wanted network cables. Everyone wanted PIN card readers,

0:28:50.000,0:28:57.000
or prox card readers or mag stripe readers, encoders, decoders, you know,

0:28:57.000,0:29:03.000
it varies every year. And then everyone that leaves something behind, like

0:29:03.000,0:29:06.000
"We need a hub" It's like, OK...

0:29:06.500,0:29:11.000
I only have 53 tables in total that can be sold. Some vendors are getting 2,

0:29:11.000,0:29:16.000
some vendors are getting 3 so you have to decide what's going to actually provide

0:29:16.000,0:29:19.500
the most benefit to the attendees, what are they actually gonna want to buy and

0:29:19.750,0:29:26.000
we certainly have made mistakes in the past. For one thing....

0:29:26.000,0:29:29.000
It used to be we shouldn't have even called it the vendor area. There were a couple of years, and I

0:29:29.000,0:29:32.000
can't blame anybody but myself for this, where it should have been called the

0:29:32.000,0:29:36.000
"buy your t-shirts room." The only thing that was for sale in there was t-shirts.

0:29:36.000,0:29:40.750
You had 2 hardware vendors and 33 t-shirt vendors.

0:29:44.000,0:29:50.250
Hackers love their t-shirts. In a weird way, it's like a way to kind of express

0:29:50.250,0:29:53.000
your identity.

0:29:54.000,0:29:57.000
I think we all do that through our shirts. It's a way when you're

0:29:57.000,0:29:58.500
walking down the hall at DEF CON or any

0:29:58.501,0:30:01.500
other conference or at work or wherever

0:30:01.501,0:30:04.500
for people to kind of get an idea of who you are.

0:30:05.500,0:30:09.000
So yeah, I mean the T-shirt aspect of it is certainly important.

0:30:09.250,0:30:11.750
This is the one place I can wear all my T-shirts...

0:30:12.000,0:30:14.500
and people will know what it is. - Yeah, people get it.

0:30:17.585,0:30:23.585
There's something about that like, cinematic hacker.

0:30:23.835,0:30:30.335
That's both goofy and inspiring and...

0:30:30.585,0:30:35.085
Like I still play up... There's this mystery around it.

0:30:35.335,0:30:38.835
Oooh, Spooky Hackers... and, like there's this dark side to it..

0:30:39.085,0:30:40.585
and I still think I play that up in the art.

0:30:40.835,0:30:44.584
That I'm still intrigued... I still don't know all of what's going on...

0:30:44.585,0:30:47.085
Like, I'm a maker... I'm not a hacker.

0:30:49.335,0:30:51.135
So, I was a goon the first year and

0:30:51.385,0:30:52.885
they stuck me in the info booth.

0:30:53.135,0:30:56.135
And then, about half way through the first day Russ came over first and said...

0:30:56.385,0:30:59.885
"Hey I want you to draw on my badge..."

0:31:00.135,0:31:01.635
We had great big badges that Joe Grand did...

0:31:01.885,0:31:03.385
..and so I drew on it and then...

0:31:03.635,0:31:05.384
Pyr0 came over and said "Hey, draw on my badge."

0:31:05.385,0:31:07.885
And then in like 10 minutes there was this line

0:31:07.885,0:31:10.385
out the door of people like "Draw on my badge.."

0:31:10.635,0:31:12.135
and so Russ came up with the idea...

0:31:12.385,0:31:13.885
"Well, if you're going to draw on the badge...

0:31:14.135,0:31:17.135
"Why don't you make them give $5 to EFF for every badge you draw on.

0:31:17.385,0:31:18.885
and raise some money."

0:31:19.135,0:31:21.135
So, like, laptops I'd charge $20 for EFF...

0:31:21.385,0:31:24.385
and then it ended up with a pile of money for EFF like the first year.

0:31:24.635,0:31:29.135
So then the second year they said "You're not going to be in the info booth.

0:31:29.136,0:31:32.636
"You're going to have A booth and sell art and draw on things for people

0:31:32.637,0:31:35.137
to raise money for EFF." And that's how that took off so...

0:31:44.100,0:31:46.313
[music playing]

0:31:52.563,0:31:57.063
You have to believe in what you're doing...

0:31:57.313,0:31:59.313
and you have to believe that whatever you have

0:31:59.314,0:32:03.064
is the hottest, coolest, newest, best thing...

0:32:03.314,0:32:07.164
and that if you have any shred of doubt about what you're presenting...

0:32:07.414,0:32:11.914
or if your hearts not 100 percent into it, the audience is going to pick up on that right away.

0:32:12.164,0:32:13.664
And... tune out.

0:32:13.914,0:32:18.414
That's the thing, I think the B.S. filter here at DEF CON is very, very strong.

0:32:18.664,0:32:22.364
I think the talks and the speeches are absolutely important

0:32:22.614,0:32:26.114
because it gives the world an opportunity for a very inexpensive price

0:32:26.364,0:32:29.364
to be able to go learn from the absolute best in the world in this industry

0:32:29.614,0:32:33.114
about the absolute bleeding cutting edge of technology...

0:32:38.900,0:32:43.936
[music playing]

0:32:44.186,0:32:49.686
It was between 300 and 400 submissions that came in for people that

0:32:49.936,0:32:51.436
wanted to speak at DEF CON this year.

0:32:52.686,0:32:57.186
Yeah, it was a rough, rough year just because of the number of quality submissions...

0:32:57.436,0:33:01.936
There were some that any other year absolutely would have been accepted...

0:33:02.186,0:33:06.686
I think because this is the 20th DEF CON and it's because people want to be

0:33:06.936,0:33:09.936
a part of DEF CON 20... we got so many more submissions.

0:33:10.186,0:33:14.686
And so many more quality submissions...

0:33:14.936,0:33:22.436
DEF CON speakers are all different types. Especially this year you have... you have generals, and you have 15 year old kids...

0:33:22.437,0:33:24.937
all of whom have something different to contribute.

0:33:25.187,0:33:30.687
There's not really one thing you can say that unites a DEF CON speaker...

0:33:30.937,0:33:35.437
except for their desire to present their ideas to an audience.

0:33:35.687,0:33:39.187
[music playing]

0:33:45.437,0:33:49.937
[applause]

0:33:55.204,0:34:02.704
And we've got a really cool V.I.P. this year... Yup... Really Cool.

0:34:02.705,0:34:06.300
They better show up. [laugh]

0:34:07.301,0:34:11.801
The big celebrity speaker V.I.P. for this year at DEF CON,

0:34:12.051,0:34:14.251
The director of the NSA and director of cyber command

0:34:14.252,0:34:15.752
General Alexander.

0:34:15.752,0:34:18.051
We've been trying to get somebody from the NSA

0:34:18.301,0:34:20.801
high level to speak for... 10 years.

0:34:20.802,0:34:23.551
and it just so happens that we finally get somebody.

0:34:23.801,0:34:26.301
And it just happens to be our 20th year anniversary so...

0:34:26.551,0:34:28.051
the timing just works out really well.

0:34:28.301,0:34:30.801
And I know people are going to get all bent in a knot over it...

0:34:31.051,0:34:33.051
It's going to be like the love-hate relationship...

0:34:33.301,0:34:35.051
They're also going to be really interested in what he has to say...

0:34:35.052,0:34:37.801
and at the same time be really fearful of the NSA.

0:34:39.051,0:34:42.051
It's a milestone to see someone of his position and level

0:34:42.301,0:34:46.801
come here and speak about security and hackers and those types of things.

0:34:48.051,0:34:50.051
Jeff Moss made a valid call and he kind of said...

0:34:50.301,0:34:52.801
"Look, you know, we have to interact with these people." you know.

0:34:53.051,0:34:55.751
we have the technical skills and they're the ones calling the shots.

0:34:56.001,0:34:58.501
so we've got to interact with them. and at the end of the day...

0:34:58.751,0:35:00.251
we've got to educate them. ya know?

0:35:00.501,0:35:02.250
Helloooo DEF CON!

0:35:02.251,0:35:03.751
[applause]

0:35:09.750,0:35:12.400
Something I try to do with DEF CON is I want to

0:35:12.650,0:35:15.150
expose you guys, from the very first DEF CON,

0:35:15.400,0:35:17.400
to people you don't normally see like...

0:35:17.650,0:35:20.450
I'm sure you guys just don't hang out and have coffee with

0:35:20.700,0:35:24.200
the General and, neither do I

0:35:24.450,0:35:28.740
so to me it's really eye opening to understand the world from their view.

0:35:29.300,0:35:32.800
Having the NSA here was a great unveiling of the support

0:35:33.050,0:35:35.550
and I think a little bit of appreciation from the government

0:35:35.800,0:35:38.550
towards our community now, and a little bit more understanding

0:35:38.800,0:35:43.300
of the work we do, and the actual end goals of what we are trying to accomplish here.

0:35:43.550,0:35:45.050
[applause]

0:35:45.300,0:35:46.800
Thank you...

0:35:47.050,0:35:50.550
It's an honor to be here. It's an honor and a privilege

0:35:50.800,0:35:52.300
to be here.

0:35:52.550,0:35:54.050
You know, one of the things I want to talk about

0:35:54.300,0:35:57.300
is the Freedom domain. The Internet.

0:35:57.550,0:36:00.050
And what we can all do to work on this,

0:36:00.300,0:36:04.300
and so I've got about 6 hours of presentation and slides [audience laughs]

0:36:04.300,0:36:08.050
that we'll cut down to some meaningful time for you.

0:36:08.300,0:36:12.000
I think it's amazing and D.T. wouldn't believe you if you could

0:36:12.250,0:36:13.750
go back in time and tell him that 20 years from now

0:36:14.000,0:36:17.500
you're gonna have an NSA general here talking to the group

0:36:17.500,0:36:18.750
sort of as an ally.

0:36:19.000,0:36:20.700
Seeing people like General Alexander come down

0:36:20.950,0:36:23.450
and meet with us hackers... it's just amazing.

0:36:23.700,0:36:28.200
I've been in the hacking scene for over, what, 25 years now

0:36:28.450,0:36:33.150
and I remember the days when we were just considered criminals

0:36:33.400,0:36:36.400
that no one wanted to integrate with, they didn't understand how

0:36:36.650,0:36:39.150
a hacking ethos could be applied to things that weren't illegal.

0:36:39.400,0:36:42.900
And now...this completely legitimizes what we're doing.

0:36:43.150,0:36:45.650
People want to see what we're doing and they want to hear

0:36:45.900,0:36:48.400
about what we're doing, and they're realizing that we

0:36:48.650,0:36:51.150
have a role to play in keeping the world's infrastructure safe

0:36:51.400,0:36:52.900
and keeping the government safe.

0:36:53.150,0:36:54.650
And that... that's awesome.

0:36:54.900,0:36:57.400
And there's a lot of things that are going on here.

0:36:57.650,0:37:02.150
We can sit on the sidelines, and let others

0:37:02.400,0:37:03.900
who don't understand this space

0:37:04.150,0:37:07.850
tell us what they're going to do, or we can help by

0:37:08.100,0:37:11.600
educating and informing them on the best strategy going forward

0:37:11.850,0:37:15.350
that benefits all of us and our nation.

0:37:15.600,0:37:18.100
And that's the real reason that I came here,

0:37:18.350,0:37:19.850
to solicit your support.

0:37:20.213,0:37:24.713
But on the other side we also have super privacy advocates,

0:37:24.963,0:37:27.463
the E.F.F. is going to be right there next to them.

0:37:27.713,0:37:30.213
And they're probably in a constant lawsuit with the N.S.A.

0:37:30.463,0:37:32.963
so... we try to represent both sides.

0:37:33.213,0:37:35.713
I mean, they're the ones that have been out there and

0:37:35.963,0:37:39.463
helping when people try and do crazy laws

0:37:39.713,0:37:43.413
that, you know, don't really understand the implications.

0:37:43.663,0:37:48.363
The E.F.F. will step up and try and right the ship

0:37:48.613,0:37:51.613
and make things good for everyone and

0:37:51.863,0:37:53.363
we like to support them.

0:37:53.613,0:37:55.813
And what I'm trying to do when I have these speakers

0:37:56.063,0:37:58.563
is I'm trying to expose the audience to people they wouldn't normally

0:37:58.813,0:38:01.313
come in contact with. It's not just always fun and games.

0:38:01.563,0:38:04.063
hacking a system. There's a bigger world out there,

0:38:04.313,0:38:05.813
and you're playing a part in it.

0:38:06.063,0:38:07.563
A very important part.

0:38:07.813,0:38:10.313
And if I didn't, I kind of think I'd be doing a disservice.

0:38:10.563,0:38:14.063
It would be sort of like intentionally, I don't know, not aiming as high.

0:38:14.313,0:38:18.813
So, if you don't like that speaker don't go to that talk.

0:38:19.063,0:38:22.763
And I think that when you bring in not only our great talent here

0:38:23.013,0:38:26.513
but those of our allies I think that's absolutely superb.

0:38:27.900,0:38:30.463
All right, that brings this session to a close, so let's

0:38:30.713,0:38:33.213
have a round of applause for General Alexander.

0:38:33.463,0:38:37.963
[applause]

0:38:48.213,0:38:53.713
[music playing]

0:39:01.500,0:39:03.537
I think the contest and events is very key because

0:39:03.787,0:39:06.487
it's one of the things that you'll find if you go to a lot of different conferences

0:39:06.737,0:39:10.237
especially in the security arena... it's very boring. [laughs]

0:39:10.487,0:39:14.187
Usually you're sitting around in a bar getting really, really drunk

0:39:14.437,0:39:15.937
with a bunch of friends.

0:39:16.187,0:39:18.687
And going to a couple talks that you're interested in seeing.

0:39:18.937,0:39:21.437
But over all it's a lot of looking for something to do.

0:39:21.687,0:39:25.187
We've just grown to where now I believe I'm managing about 50 events.

0:39:25.437,0:39:28.937
50 events and contests throughout DEF CON 20.

0:39:29.187,0:39:30.687
[music playing]

0:39:37.937,0:39:41.437
INTERVIEWER: What's going on? -Not much, just cutting some mohawks.

0:39:45.500,0:39:49.813
It just started out as shenanigans... with, like, drunk people in bathrooms

0:39:50.063,0:39:51.563
at DEF CON.

0:39:52.500,0:39:56.500
But people started giving us money. I started telling them to donate to the E.F.F.

0:39:56.750,0:40:01.250
and so people told me I should make it official cause

0:40:01.251,0:40:03.265
it just became tradition.

0:40:03.365,0:40:06.256
(music playing)

0:40:06.356,0:40:12.242
Last year we raised about $4000 total for EFF, Hackers for Charity,

0:40:12.314,0:40:14.431
and other hackerspaces around the country.

0:40:14.487,0:40:18.512
(music playing)

0:40:18.514,0:40:23.055
I've been growing my hair out for 2 years ...it was difficult for the girl, because

0:40:23.250,0:40:27.088
she was about this tall and she had to stand up on a chair to actually

0:40:27.109,0:40:28.158
finish it all.

0:40:28.760,0:40:32.508
This year we have a goal because last year he shook on it:

0:40:32.586,0:40:37.027
DT will be getting a mohawk this year, if he likes it or not.

0:40:37.277,0:40:41.477
(music playing)

0:40:41.508,0:40:45.340
I've been playing Hack Fortress, which is an amazing competition, it's one of the highlights

0:40:45.378,0:40:49.529
of DEF CON for me. Essentially we have a team of 6 to 8

0:40:49.558,0:40:53.058
players who play Team Fortress really how it's meant to be played.

0:40:53.158,0:40:57.658
You know: Medic, Heavy, and they try and capture points. We as the hacking team,

0:40:57.966,0:41:02.404
essentially we're doing hacking challenges: cryptography, forensics,

0:41:02.454,0:41:06.339
physical challenges, social engineering, information gathering, and that gets

0:41:06.359,0:41:10.567
our team benefits. So it might light the other team on fire, it might make

0:41:10.666,0:41:15.167
everything our team shoots a critical hit. It's just a really cool combination

0:41:15.211,0:41:19.059
of both gaming and hacking which, you know, is awesome.

0:41:19.730,0:41:47.456
(music playing)

0:41:48.909,0:41:54.042
Now you've got an objective here, you've got a 3 person team, and you

0:41:54.100,0:41:58.764
have to infiltrate this office, steal a lot of information and get back out

0:41:58.774,0:42:00.743
again, in 15 minutes.

0:42:01.547,0:42:06.469
But it's a penetration and data exfiltration job. So team-based people

0:42:06.629,0:42:11.133
will penetrate into a virtual office, and we're framing out the walls and

0:42:11.205,0:42:15.767
everything. You'll have to pick in, once you're in, a team of people then

0:42:16.017,0:42:19.554
can try to get documents, which you don't just unlock a lock, you have to

0:42:19.804,0:42:23.272
spread them out, legibly photograph them, put them back where you found

0:42:23.522,0:42:26.710
them. I think we're including now, there's a smartphone, like an Android

0:42:26.873,0:42:30.323
phone, so you have to hold it up just right and maybe you see the pattern.

0:42:30.473,0:42:32.614
You swipe it out and you get some contacts.

0:42:32.864,0:42:37.121
So I have this computer running Windows 3.11, so I'm watching people try to fumble

0:42:37.571,0:42:42.386
their way through Windows File Manager, looking for data, but the really key

0:42:42.486,0:42:44.912
thing is that if you can unlock the computer where it's chained up,

0:42:45.037,0:42:49.761
can you get the whole computer out of the office, and can you do it without

0:42:49.911,0:42:51.511
powering it off?

0:42:51.761,0:42:56.688
So we are hot-jacking into the wires, splicing in the UPS using a tool

0:42:56.938,0:43:00.102
the feds use, called a 'hotplug', to transfer the switching of the power

0:43:00.392,0:43:06.243
on a whim, but a lot of people mad dash, half tiger-team, half Marx Brothers movie,

0:43:06.335,0:43:09.250
running around this office, getting everything, getting out clean, locking

0:43:09.500,0:43:13.935
it up after themselves. Yeah, I can see a lot of us who used to be the guy who

0:43:13.935,0:43:17.419
would maybe get drunk and worry about being arrested, now we all have jobs

0:43:17.443,0:43:19.947
where we do this professionally and get paid for it.

0:43:20.197,0:43:24.225
(applause)

0:43:25.809,0:43:35.143
(music playing)

0:43:35.393,0:43:40.689
All right, all right, we are ready to begin! Everyone we're going to do science over

0:43:40.693,0:43:43.630
here, we're going to do less science over there!

0:43:45.256,0:43:51.178
These teams are tasked with cooling the beer to exactly 42 degrees...which is

0:43:51.642,0:43:53.811
ridiculous...but...

0:43:54.061,0:43:57.586
People came through...people came through in amazing ways that I never expected.

0:43:57.838,0:44:01.348
This year I took away all the restrictions about what you can and

0:44:01.553,0:44:06.540
can't do and I said you have to get it to exactly 42 degrees.

0:44:06.640,0:44:12.561
And....time!

0:44:14.569,0:44:22.060
And this last minute entry "Team Ice not Science" if I got their name right...

0:44:22.060,0:44:27.512
hit it! Exactly! ... It was a fantastic success in the end!

0:44:28.384,0:45:10.568
(music playing)

0:45:13.051,0:45:19.150
Stop! This is ShizNiz live from DEF CON in the beautiful city of Las Vegas

0:45:19.150,0:45:21.087
behind me you can see the skyline...

0:45:21.087,0:45:25.081
It's a rooftop! Look at that rooftop!

0:45:25.265,0:45:29.923
Over to your right if Dave can get it...

0:45:29.923,0:45:32.741
There you go, there's the mountains...

0:45:32.741,0:45:34.622
There's the Alexis Park...

0:45:34.622,0:46:11.866
(music playing)

0:46:11.866,0:46:18.362
The Alexis Park is part of the DEF CON legend. It definitely, it's probably the

0:46:18.415,0:46:20.017
closest thing DEF CON has to a home.

0:46:20.664,0:46:22.968
I know, I wish it was still at the Alexis Park.

0:46:22.988,0:46:26.798
There was a long period of time that I associate with Alexis Park.

0:46:26.798,0:46:28.516
We were there for a long time, like 6 or 7 years

0:46:28.525,0:46:31.186
You've got the whole property. You can hang out by the pool...

0:46:31.650,0:46:35.575
This is some horrible 70's-like apartment building laid out rows

0:46:35.575,0:46:40.103
of these hotel rooms, with pools and grassy areas down the middle.

0:46:40.103,0:46:44.247
It's like multiple pools that we could just party at all night...

0:46:44.421,0:46:48.810
If you don't know what the Pool 2 means, if you don't know what Pool 3 means...

0:46:48.810,0:46:52.572
You weren't there...I mean it, some really ridiculous stuff went on.

0:46:53.408,0:47:01.697
Pool 2 and Pool 3 were just sort of like these nexuses of activity and energy...

0:47:01.697,0:47:07.850
You could be guaranteed to find something going on at 2am, 3am all the

0:47:07.850,0:47:10.062
way to the sunrise.

0:47:10.148,0:47:14.850
And we had folks that were underage, and we had folks that were overage, and

0:47:14.898,0:47:18.960
everyone was not sober, and doing their thing...

0:47:18.973,0:47:25.439
I was told at one point that at the Alexis Park, we did enough business in

0:47:25.476,0:47:30.183
alcohol sales that equalled about 4 months of their normal alcohol sales.

0:47:30.245,0:47:33.636
And you talk about debauchery?

0:47:34.636,0:47:36.960
The AP was where true debauchery at DEF CON occurred.

0:47:36.960,0:47:40.242
(applause)

0:47:40.242,0:47:44.920
(cheering)

0:47:45.170,0:47:49.309
And at the time, the hotel owners, they were alright, they were alright.

0:47:49.309,0:47:53.047
They basically had the attitude of, "You know what? You can trash our hotel if you want."

0:47:53.047,0:47:57.425
"You'll pay for it, but at the end of the day, we'll take your money."

0:47:57.675,0:48:01.940
They weren't as concerned about the lights around the pool getting destroyed,

0:48:01.940,0:48:05.238
any things of that nature, so it was a little bit easier to deal with, you know,

0:48:05.238,0:48:06.724
destruction in that way.

0:48:06.724,0:48:12.750
I go to check in, and they hand me a list, "Ok, let me explain this to you."

0:48:12.820,0:48:17.126
And it's a list of all of the objects in the room at the Alexis Park

0:48:17.126,0:48:19.668
with a dollar amount next to it. "If you would like to destroy this object in your room

0:48:19.668,0:48:21.538
this is how much it will cost you."

0:48:21.538,0:48:26.452
You could just get insane and you weren't waking anyone up, you didn't have to

0:48:26.543,0:48:30.072
worry about security coming and telling you to stop doing something because

0:48:30.072,0:48:33.462
usually you were doing it to somebody who wanted you to.

0:48:33.462,0:48:37.403
The Alexis Park, we were much more hands-on because they didn't

0:48:37.503,0:48:38.842
have a security staff that a casino has

0:48:39.105,0:48:45.826
So I was arrested at DEF CON in 2002 by the hotel security guards, but I don't

0:48:45.826,0:48:50.493
know who ordered it, I guess a goon, probably Priest ordered it, and I ended

0:48:50.493,0:48:55.137
up in the Alexis Park jail, which is very roomy, it was kind of a Bacchanalian,

0:48:55.137,0:48:59.260
Mediterranean motif, there were grape leaves on the walls and things like that.

0:48:59.260,0:49:00.537
There's no bars or anything like that.

0:49:00.787,0:49:04.229
And since it was a non-gambling hotel you could do whatever you want, wherever

0:49:04.229,0:49:06.969
you want, because you didn't have to be an adult.

0:49:07.219,0:49:10.061
You used to make announcements at DEF CON that, "So and so's parents are

0:49:10.068,0:49:15.444
looking for their runaway child," you know, who was 17 and was off at the con

0:49:15.694,0:49:20.645
It was a different experience, everybody says "I wish it was the Alexis Park again."

0:49:20.645,0:49:24.789
"Oh, I wish we were back at the Alexis Park." Honestly, I do too. I really liked the

0:49:24.789,0:49:29.037
environment, the pool parties, the open atmosphere, we had the whole hotel.

0:49:29.074,0:49:33.625
But then everybody forgets that, oh, the lines are ridiculous, all the rooms were overcrowded

0:49:33.625,0:49:36.460
Oh, I couldn't do anything, it was awful.

0:49:36.460,0:49:39.975
There was no room for speaking. I mean, people would make t-shirts about how

0:49:39.975,0:49:42.651
terrible it was to get into the tent in the parking lot.

0:49:42.701,0:49:48.175
So, it's better, it's more organized, yeah It's a little different, I wouldn't go back.

0:49:48.245,0:49:54.491
For us to go back there now, we would have to cut this conference by 2/3.

0:49:54.991,0:50:00.003
And, nostalgically, yes I look back on that time, and it was a great time.

0:50:00.004,0:50:06.770
But we need a venue the size of the Rio, now, to support the size that we've become.

0:50:07.771,0:50:11.875
But, that's probably the time, when, things seemed to settle in.

0:50:11.875,0:50:16.612
That, you know, we've going something going here, and it's probably going to continue for a while.

0:50:16.613,0:50:20.584
Well, and that's one the things. Obviously, the Alexis Park is near and dear to a lot of people because,

0:50:20.584,0:50:24.321
this is, you know, how many years have we been away from the Alexis Park?

0:50:24.321,0:50:30.627
And still, every year, somebody drives over there, walks into the front of the hotel,

0:50:30.627,0:50:36.733
and steals the giant floor mat in the front, and brings it back to con. (laughing)

0:50:42.472,0:50:45.342
A conference badge has three purposes.

0:50:47.778,0:50:53.116
The first purpose is to show that you've paid for the conference. It's a security token.

0:50:55.519,0:51:00.824
Number 2, it sets the level of your security, when you're within the conference.

0:51:01.922,0:51:07.331
Third, I wanted the badges, that I created, to be something that helped brought people together.

0:51:10.800,0:51:16.506
I intentionally designed the badges to cause people to have to look at each other, and talk to each other.

0:51:16.507,0:51:22.479
To get to know somebody that they might not otherwise have known.

0:51:25.982,0:51:30.187
It really is the interaction with the other people at DEF CON that makes DEF CON what it is.

0:51:30.187,0:51:37.360
It's not the "oh, I have this uber, awesome, electronic circuit badge that does such and such."

0:51:37.360,0:51:43.066
It's the people wearing the badge that matter. And, I think a lot of people miss that.

0:51:49.706,0:51:55.679
The years where we've had an electronic badge, people show up wanting to do something with this awesome

0:51:55.679,0:51:59.416
little piece of tech that they were just given for their entry fee.

0:52:01.952,0:52:05.589
This is, we're helping... This is like an open badge solder session.

0:52:06.223,0:52:08.959
We're helping people complete adding the connectors to their badges.

0:52:10.861,0:52:15.699
We're not doing it for them, we're assisting them, and letting them do it themselves. Because that way they learn how to solder.

0:52:17.000,0:52:19.803
So far, no one's done anything that hasn't been able to be fixed.

0:52:20.337,0:52:25.475
So it's more of just learning, and, community learning project, I guess. Just doing the badges.

0:52:26.910,0:52:32.716
Yes. First DEF CON. First time soldering. A lot of firsts this weekend.

0:52:34.050,0:52:39.623
I really like to help other people just get better at what they do.

0:52:39.923,0:52:42.926
Or to find an inspiration, something they're passionate about.

0:52:43.226,0:52:46.463
And I like to help them progress along that path.

0:52:48.732,0:52:50.233
Pretty much 90% of the people here have never soldered in their life.

0:52:51.167,0:52:53.303
This is their first time. And that's the goal.

0:52:54.237,0:52:56.440
It lets people, introduce people. Hey, it's not that scary. It's okay.

0:52:58.608,0:53:03.213
We're here to guide you, and maybe, you'll do it in the future. And if not, you'll know you've done it. So it's one of those skills you'll have.

0:53:12.989,0:53:19.162
Usually, the only people that are really getting it, are sequestered in their hotel room, just, going crazy on it.

0:53:24.100,0:53:25.468
There are some people that counterfeit the badges every year.

0:53:26.369,0:53:30.673
And we try to make the badges hard to counterfeit. And there are some people that spend a lot of time counterfeiting the badges.

0:53:31.741,0:53:33.777
And, I think that's cool.

0:53:34.077,0:53:39.049
If you can counterfeit the badge, and you can get past the guards, repeatedly, good for you. You probably deserve to get in. Right?

0:53:40.050,0:53:42.620
That's what a hacking convention is all about.

0:53:42.621,0:53:48.225
If you're good enough to fool everybody, you've put more energy into hacking that badge than we did, probably, producing it.

0:53:48.525,0:53:49.559
So, good for you.

0:53:50.193,0:53:57.820
They had the smiley face, you know, skull and crossbones, the basic logo for the con.

0:53:57.934,0:54:02.405
And I think their first design flaw was, same PCB board, different colors.

0:54:03.606,0:54:05.208
So you had people that went out and spray painted them. And things like that.

0:54:05.354,0:54:12.082
Well, the absolute worst thing to do is to step into the goon SOC (Security Operations Center) with your cute, little red badge, and claim that you're a goon.

0:54:12.382,0:54:16.319
Because we all know who we are. And once the door closes, you're ours.

0:54:22.559,0:54:28.798
(music playing)

0:54:28.799,0:54:35.138
And so it was a space where I felt more at home, where I didn't have to explain anything to anybody

0:54:35.839,0:54:37.274
than any other context I'd ever been in.

0:54:40.209,0:54:42.512
Real hackers are incredible.

0:54:43.513,0:54:49.512
They take nothing for granted, and they look at things to see how they can be combined to make something new.

0:54:49.986,0:54:55.291
And hackers really have a interesting, innovative, creative way, the best of them,

0:54:55.292,0:55:02.564
of looking at all sorts of problems.. that a normal person wouldn't know how to do.

0:55:02.565,0:55:05.434
And being fearless in the face of ambiguity;

0:55:05.435,0:55:10.105
holding multiple representations of reality simultaneously, in their minds,

0:55:10.106,0:55:12.709
even though they may be contradictory, and conflicting...

0:55:13.109,0:55:17.180
And holding them there, lightly, while you explore which ones are a best fit for now,

0:55:17.848,0:55:19.816
to the sensory data coming into society...

0:55:21.151,0:55:24.721
You know, Feynman, great physicist, he said "The interesting fact is the anomalous fact."

0:55:25.021,0:55:26.957
Emphasize both fact, and anomaly.

0:55:27.590,0:55:31.261
Because it says there's a whole cornerstone here of another way of looking at things,

0:55:32.062,0:55:33.129
that we're missing.

0:55:33.430,0:55:37.567
Well, that's what hackers are looking for. And that's why I've taken to it so.

0:55:38.435,0:55:44.074
Because the edge where new realities are appearing, and normals don't see them at first...

0:55:45.142,0:55:49.913
But hackers are looking for them. They're kind of the little homunculus, inside the machine.

0:55:51.981,0:55:54.684
When I come here, I don't have to explain anything, to anybody.

0:55:54.785,0:55:54.855
my point of view, or my point of reference.

0:55:54.856,0:56:04.260
Or, why I said what I said. Or, what was ironic. Or, or, what was meant straight up.

0:56:05.556,0:56:06.496
Because people just kinda get it.

0:56:07.664,0:56:09.532
And that's a terrific thing.

0:56:29.018,0:56:34.024
(music playing)

0:56:34.824,0:56:39.095
Probably our signature event, is Capture the Flag.

0:56:54.945,0:56:57.467
When you go to DEF CON, and walk through the Capture the Flag area,

0:56:58.515,0:57:02.519
you're seeing some of the best of the best teams that are out there.

0:57:03.286,0:57:08.091
Well, this is really, this is the Wimbledon, this is the place around the world where it all comes together.

0:57:09.359,0:57:16.199
What strikes me isn't in the room. It's the fact that there were a couple thousand people competing, from around the world, to get into that room.

0:57:17.834,0:57:20.970
Some of those guys, that travel from like South Korea, or from the Middle East, to do CTF...

0:57:21.604,0:57:25.675
they came thousands of miles, and are not going to sleep for three days.

0:57:26.409,0:57:30.547
To participate in one game, at one event, that happens once a year.

0:57:31.648,0:57:32.949
And that's what amazes me.

0:57:34.450,0:57:37.120
It's about a bunch of different teams, getting together on a big network,

0:57:37.620,0:57:40.557
trying to steal each other's stuff, in essence.

0:57:46.863,0:57:47.831
Capture the Flag has been there since the beginning.

0:57:49.032,0:57:53.169
And, really, from a hacker perspective, it's the type of thing that you think of,

0:57:53.170,0:57:55.538
"Hey, how do I take over this guy's computer?"

0:57:56.439,0:58:00.176
Don't miss any con where you can sit down at a laptop and make the network work, and start breaking things.

0:58:06.616,0:58:10.000
(music playing)

0:58:10.654,0:58:13.232
So, Crash and Compile is a programming contest, crossed with a drinking game.

0:58:13.323,0:58:14.457
What could possibly go wrong?

0:58:14.458,0:58:18.094
If you're familar with the ACM style programming contests;

0:58:18.428,0:58:20.697
you're given a challenge, a word problem, you know?

0:58:20.897,0:58:24.334
Write a program, that takes this kind of input and generates that kind of output.

0:58:24.624,0:58:27.270
Or some arbitrary word problem.

0:58:28.304,0:58:31.274
And you start coding. And you're coding along, you're coding along,

0:58:32.275,0:58:34.978
and then you say, "I think I'm gonna test something," and you try and compile it.

0:58:35.712,0:58:36.079
And it doesn't compile. You take a drink.

0:58:36.679,0:58:40.316
If it compiles, but doesn't run, you take a drink.

0:58:41.384,0:58:43.019
If it runs, but doesn't produce the right output, you take a drink.

0:58:43.319,0:58:45.922
Okay, you can see how this could degrade very quickly.

0:58:46.923,0:58:54.297
After 45 minutes, any points that are not awarded, or that have not already been awarded to competing teams get awarded to Team Distraction.

0:58:55.765,0:58:58.167
The team with the most points at the end of the night goes home with a Black Badge.

0:59:00.570,0:59:04.274
No, Team Distraction does not qualify for a Black Badge, unfortunately.

0:59:07.443,0:59:11.314
And you're coding? No. I am part of Team Distraction.

0:59:11.614,0:59:18.988
Our first goal is make sure that they get enough water, and they don't drink too much.

0:59:19.689,0:59:22.959
But then, of course, you know, we have to distract them from their coding,

0:59:23.426,0:59:38.140
and kinda like mess them up, and, you know, just, distract them a little.

0:59:38.141,0:59:45.114
Does everyone have a beer? (affirmation from the contestants) Let's rephrase that. Who doesn't have a beer?

0:59:50.653,0:59:52.889
Are we there yet? We're there. Okay.

0:59:56.760,1:00:01.099
Any other questions? No? Groovy. Let's go program.

1:00:01.100,1:00:03.300
Brilliant. Let's go program.

1:00:06.000,1:00:17.000
(singing)

1:00:19.200,1:00:33.600
(background noise)

1:00:35.000,1:01:04.000
(music playing)

1:01:06.200,1:01:10.900
Gotta energize the crowd. I gotta set the pace, set the tone. And then I have

1:01:11.000,1:01:14.900
to say something outrageous pretty damn quickly, gotta insult somebody quickly.

1:01:15.000,1:01:20.100
The show's begun and I'm not really aware of much of anything else for the

1:01:20.200,1:01:27.700
next couple of hours. I want the audience engaged within 10, 15 seconds.

1:01:27.800,1:01:29.900
I want to have that dialogue.

1:01:30.700,1:01:36.900
"Copyright lawyers mean this, by I.P." [buzzer goes off] "Win or Lose!"

1:01:37.100,1:01:40.600
"What is intellectual property?" - "What is intellectual property is correct!"

1:01:41.700,1:01:47.700
You can piss this crowd off very easily. So, you get your feedback very very quickly

1:01:47.800,1:01:49.700
as to whether you're doing a good job or a bad job.

1:01:51.600,1:01:55.800
Jeff and I had talked, and he says "I really wanna notch up the 20th, I wanna go out

1:01:55.900,1:02:01.600
with a bang, and I wanna do all these crazy things." And it was "COOL!"

1:02:05.400,1:02:13.800
"The final category is Beer." (cheers)

1:02:14.300,1:02:21.800
I think that this audience, probably 50% bigger than last year. So that would put

1:02:21.900,1:02:31.800
that crowd, I'm guessing, in the 2,500 range, something like that. But this one was huge.

1:02:34.800,1:02:43.590
We'll see you tomorrow night, for the final final final round of Hacker Jeopardy, DEF CON 20.

1:02:44.500,1:03:51.400
(music playing)

1:03:53.700,1:03:58.200
Common experiences at DEF CON include... I don't remember.

1:04:00.800,1:04:06.300
Meaning that if you have a good con you probably have no recollection of what

1:04:06.400,1:04:07.900
actually happened.

1:04:08.500,1:04:17.900
(music playing)

1:04:37.000,1:05:02.100
(music playing)

1:05:03.500,1:05:09.300
If you've never been, don't base your assumptions off what you've read or heard.

1:05:10.700,1:05:14.400
At this point especially, DEF CON is something you just have to experience.

1:05:16.000,1:05:19.600
DEF CON is not a convention, it's a meta-convention. But there's so many smaller

1:05:19.700,1:05:26.300
events, gatherings, meet-ups, projects, that it's become a group of other smaller conferences.

1:05:26.400,1:05:32.100
There are other aspects, other facets of the con, that are completely

1:05:32.200,1:05:37.900
different then what you have heard, thought of, expect or even dreamt are possible.

1:05:41.400,1:05:45.600
There's people you've known from internet stuff, only through that, and you come from a small

1:05:45.700,1:05:49.900
town, right, you don't know anybody, and you have this weird stuff you're into. And then you go to DEF CON,

1:05:50.000,1:05:53.500
And that's where you meet the people, right? And it's beautiful. Just hangin' out,

1:05:53.600,1:05:58.700
the conversations. It's the place. DEF CON is the place.

1:06:03.700,1:06:09.300
So they change periodically. And so the fire marshall you had last year may not be

1:06:09.400,1:06:18.300
the fire marshall...Oh, I think that's... the attorney. "Hello? Hey, OK, we'll let you in."

1:06:20.100,1:06:25.100
I can think of a couple of things he might have done, ya know, that I wished he hadn't have done.

1:06:25.200,1:06:28.300
I can think of one.

1:06:28.950,1:06:38.000
When we started, it was very clear that Jeff was younger, and he was way smarter then me,

1:06:38.150,1:06:42.800
but in my opinion, he had no street sense, which essentially just meant that he didn't

1:06:42.900,1:06:48.200
know what the ramifications could be from a law standpoint on some of the stuff we

1:06:48.300,1:06:53.900
were dealing with. You know, it's really not property damage stuff. We, you know,

1:06:54.000,1:06:58.000
that, we can do something about. You can liquidate that, you can price it, you

1:06:58.100,1:07:03.200
can figure it out. I mean, we've had lawsuits, we've dealt with big major

1:07:03.300,1:07:10.400
battles with me versus eight lawyers from Cisco for about 2 years. You know,

1:07:10.500,1:07:14.800
it's got these players that can get involved that aren't really attached to DEF CON that

1:07:14.900,1:07:20.600
could put DEF CON at massive risk for government intervention, heavy duty

1:07:20.700,1:07:21.700
lawsuit intervention.

1:07:22.400,1:07:25.800
People want to come to DEF CON, which is fine, that's what DEF CON, Jeff likes it, I think.

1:07:25.900,1:07:30.700
They come to DEF CON, they're like "Hey man, I wanna step on the toes of

1:07:30.800,1:07:38.500
"fill in the blank" mondo, master, master of the universe, aggressive company.

1:07:38.600,1:07:46.200
"I wanna come to DEF CON and piss them off, what do you think?" And it certainly isn't

1:07:46.300,1:07:54.130
boring when somebody says "Yeah, I'm gonna shut down, ya know, huge Corporation X."

1:07:55.000,1:07:59.500
So there's problems the public knows about, and there's problems that never see the light of day.

1:07:59.600,1:08:04.200
Or hopefully never see the light of day. So we've had a little bit on both sides.

1:08:04.300,1:08:12.900
Nearly dodged lawsuits, those kinds of things. We had one at

1:08:13.000,1:08:21.600
the Alexis Park where there was a federal grand jury we heard about that was

1:08:21.700,1:08:26.600
investigating DEF CON and they were asking for all the room reservation, credit card

1:08:26.700,1:08:33.800
info on everybody who attended DEF CON. Luckily we are cash only, so there's no

1:08:33.899,1:08:40.000
records to seize from us. So as the organization we were fine, but the hotel

1:08:40.100,1:08:47.600
and vendors in the area, they were getting their records taken, seized, and they're

1:08:47.700,1:08:50.700
performing some investigations. In the end, nothing came of it. The grand jury

1:08:50.800,1:08:56.200
as far as I know never did anything with it. But, that's one of those things

1:08:56.300,1:09:00.700
where for years I was telling people, there's a reason why you don't process

1:09:00.800,1:09:06.500
credit cards and keep records. And after years of doing that, I was vindicated

1:09:06.600,1:09:10.000
in my paranoia. Because that would have been a huge legal battle to deal with

1:09:10.100,1:09:15.000
all of that. To try and turn it over, not turn it over. So there's battles

1:09:15.100,1:09:17.300
like that that never see the light of day. And this is the first time I've ever

1:09:17.399,1:09:19.000
actually talked about it.

1:09:20.649,1:09:26.895
INTERVIEWER: Describe Jeff Moss. - Describe Jeff Moss. Oh...

1:09:29.800,1:09:35.500
Jeff is a friend. He's an interesting guy. He travels a lot. He's very intelligent.

1:09:36.899,1:09:42.370
Jeff's awesome. He is legitimately a good person. He's absolutely brilliant.

1:09:42.500,1:09:47.100
And in my opinion, if we didn't have Jeff, this community and this culture

1:09:47.200,1:09:48.684
would have never grown to what it is.

1:09:49.500,1:09:53.800
Without Jeff, DEF CON never would have made it this far. I believe that

1:09:53.899,1:09:58.000
without DEF CON goons, it also never would have made it this far, but Jeff

1:09:58.100,1:09:59.917
is the glue. You know, he's the glue that brought us this far.

1:09:59.918,1:10:03.557
This grew from a very small conference where the staff was

1:10:03.859,1:10:07.799
equal to, or more than the attendees, to a crowd that

1:10:07.800,1:10:12.651
regularly we've had to move venues every couple years, because we keep growing so much.

1:10:12.651,1:10:17.502
Yet, that continual continuity, and the spirit of DEF CON

1:10:17.502,1:10:20.836
if you will, is maintained because of Jeff.

1:10:20.837,1:10:24.777
He's overly concerned about what the DEF CON attendees think about the conference.

1:10:24.778,1:10:27.506
He wants them to have a good experience, he really does.

1:10:27.506,1:10:30.537
Jeff cares about DEF CON, so much!

1:10:30.538,1:10:34.781
He's a bit shy, as I'm sure everybody has gotten to figure out over the years.

1:10:34.782,1:10:38.722
It's difficult to get a hold of him sometimes at DEF CON, and difficult to grab him.

1:10:38.723,1:10:42.663
You know, he's like most hackers. He's not overly social, and he's got that quiet side,

1:10:42.664,1:10:46.907
a little withdrawn. He's only got so much he's willing to give you.

1:10:46.908,1:10:51.151
He is a really personable, kind-hearted guy.

1:10:51.152,1:10:55.699
He is managing chaos, and

1:10:55.700,1:10:59.943
it is not an easy job, and he's a very smart guy, and it's very difficult job,

1:10:59.944,1:11:04.187
and fortunately, he's also surrounded himself with people who can help him do that.

1:11:04.188,1:11:09.644
(Music)

1:11:09.645,1:11:14.798
In the early days, there wasn't a formal structure.

1:11:14.799,1:11:19.649
Kind of in the beginning, we all were security goons

1:11:19.650,1:11:25.106
to a certain extent, and whether is was official or unofficial there was a group of people that helped

1:11:25.107,1:11:30.566
control of what was going on, and it wasn't until later years, that, as the attendance went up, that we had

1:11:30.867,1:11:34.807
to deal with more formal roles.

1:11:34.808,1:11:40.267
Rule number four. Do listen to the Goons. If a red shirt tells you to do something, do it.

1:11:40.872,1:11:46.331
The goons aren't trying to ruin your fun. They're just trying to make DEF CON an enjoyable experience for everyone.

1:11:47.845,1:11:52.998
I mean, without the Goons, I think there are a lot of things that would just fall apart really fast.

1:11:52.999,1:11:54.817
And they have in the past.

1:11:54.818,1:12:00.880
It may have been after DEF CON 9, it was really a rough year. I don't exactly remember why, but we had growth spurts.

1:12:00.881,1:12:06.034
Where at the Alexis Park, they're physically breaking up fights. They're picking drunks up out of the

1:12:06.035,1:12:10.885
rose bushes. They're doing CPR on people. The Goons at the early Alexis Park

1:12:10.886,1:12:16.039
days that everybody misses, were actually Goons.

1:12:16.040,1:12:21.193
There have been some serious cardiac events, that I participated in, but we have had no deaths.

1:12:21.194,1:12:26.044
We were really beat up after 9, and we had discussions then as

1:12:26.045,1:12:30.895
to, "You know, do we call it quits at 10? We've had a good run. Ten years, that's substantial...

1:12:30.896,1:12:35.746
Maybe we'll do it one more and see how we feel."

1:12:35.747,1:12:41.506
And we did 10, and 10 turned out to be pretty good, and thankfully, we didn't quit.

1:12:41.507,1:12:45.447
All of the various teams have kind of occurred organically.

1:12:45.448,1:12:50.298
There's a lot of compartmentalization, that I don't think people realize.

1:12:50.299,1:12:55.149
Everyone has their own responsibilities that they're dealing with.

1:12:55.150,1:13:00.000
We've spent a lot of time over the past year setting up for this convention.

1:13:00.001,1:13:05.154
It is truly a labor of love. We are all volunteers.

1:13:05.155,1:13:10.915
We don't do this for glory, we don't do this for anything other than we want you guys to have a good time.

1:13:10.916,1:13:15.766
When I'm not at DEF CON, we're talking about DEF CON. The entire year, we're planning for DEF CON.

1:13:15.767,1:13:20.313
We're thinking about DEF CON. We're telling DEF CON stories.

1:13:20.314,1:13:23.345
Because we live it. We love it.

1:13:23.346,1:13:26.983
You don't become a Goon. You're born a Goon.

1:13:26.984,1:13:32.137
The joke is that we work for shirts. We get a couple of shirts to go and

1:13:32.138,1:13:37.325
work for twelve hour days plus at DEF CON, plus all the volunteer time throughout the rest of the year.

1:13:37.595,1:13:42.782
A couple of our guys have worn pedometers over the years, and the average shift is between fifteen and twenty-five miles.

1:13:43.052,1:13:48.205
So, we tend to, especially newer people, tell them to wear the right footwear,

1:13:48.206,1:13:53.393
make sure you always have water on you. Never walk into a situation where you

1:13:53.663,1:13:54.850
don't have a plan.

1:13:54.875,1:13:59.725
One of the things I like to say is: "At DEF CON, I live my life in the gutter, so you don't have to."

1:13:59.726,1:14:04.576
But, you're right, things that people don't see, that's our DEF CON. That's the Security Goons' DEF CON.

1:14:04.577,1:14:09.427
I'm glad to do anything I can for my fellow Goons.

1:14:09.428,1:14:14.581
Any time, any day.

1:14:14.582,1:14:30.347
(Music)

1:14:30.348,1:14:35.501
I was creating a contest that would be something I would want to participate in.

1:14:35.502,1:14:40.689
I used to say, magic is dead in the world, so I'm gonna create some for everybody else.

1:14:41.262,1:14:46.752
(Music)

1:14:47.022,1:14:52.478
I have to design cryptography and puzzles for an incredibly brilliant audience

1:14:52.479,1:14:57.969
that is designed to be solved in three days. That's not too easy, not too hard.

1:15:01.575,1:15:06.425
So now, that became my personal contest. My challenge to myself is

1:15:06.426,1:15:11.882
how do I continue to entertain some of the smartest people in the world and keep their brains occupied for three

1:15:11.883,1:15:17.036
days when a lot of them are smarter than I am, and can figure this stuff out.

1:15:17.037,1:15:20.371
(Music)

1:15:20.372,1:15:28.254
We've mapped out this challenge. The first thing we got on this challenge, was a writer with two keywords. "We program" and "Under Foot.

1:15:28.255,1:15:33.744
This referred to an insane sentence in the program. It's on page forty.

1:15:34.015,1:15:39.504
"Underfoot" represents the third oval, the third

1:15:39.775,1:15:45.231
sticker in the convention center, and those two things are two markers we

1:15:45.232,1:15:50.721
have to write on a piece of paper and give to 1057. Probably one of the biggest compliments I've ever been paid was

1:15:50.992,1:15:56.448
and I've heard this a couple of times, "I go to DEF CON to compete in your contest."

1:15:56.449,1:16:01.905
And that's, I mean I don't know what anyone else could say, I'm very

1:16:01.906,1:16:07.362
flattered. I'm shocked, because it's just stupid stuff that I think up throughout the year and then

1:16:07.363,1:16:12.819
I put it together, and try to make it a coherent flowing contest

1:16:12.820,1:16:18.276
to the best of my ability.

1:16:18.277,1:16:27.675
(Music)

1:16:27.676,1:16:36.804
We're inside the Lockpick Village at DEF CON 20, and this is where we teach people how to pick locks for entertainment and sport reasons.

1:16:38.288,1:16:43.744
Most technical people seem to have a rather strange curiosity about how

1:16:43.745,1:16:49.201
things work, and one of the things that lead us into that is how locks work.

1:16:49.202,1:16:54.961
We can teach most people within five or ten minutes how to start picking locks, and

1:16:54.962,1:17:00.721
then some of them will stay in here and at the end of the day we throw them out, and

1:17:00.722,1:17:06.481
they'll say, "Oh, I didn't go to the talks I was supposed to.", because they'd been sitting in here picking

1:17:06.482,1:17:12.275
locks all day long.

1:17:13.455,1:17:29.860
(Music)

1:17:30.130,1:17:44.682
(Music)

1:17:44.683,1:17:58.898
(Music)

1:17:58.899,1:18:35.619
(Music)

1:18:37.675,1:18:44.681
Most DEF CON talks start with a great deal of alcohol and end with a great deal of alcohol, at least the good ones

1:18:44.951,1:18:51.923
I've noticed.

1:18:51.924,1:18:58.896
The aircraft tracking stuff came out of the fact that I bought an app

1:18:58.897,1:19:05.904
for a couple bucks that let me point my cell phone at the contrail and look at the information

1:19:06.173,1:19:13.145
for that particular flight was overlaid on the camera. As I started digging, I found more and more issues.

1:19:13.146,1:19:20.118
Just, you know, out of my own curiosity, I thought "How does this work?". I found all these issues, and it got really scary because,

1:19:20.119,1:19:26.788
I speak a lot, and I go to a whole bunch of conferences. You know, this stuff can start

1:19:26.789,1:19:33.761
getting really dangerous, so I was thinking, "Even if I don't have all the answers, I need to get this answer out."

1:19:33.762,1:19:37.434
(Music)

1:19:38.006,1:19:43.159
Really, I've done enough of these things and know the crowd that

1:19:43.160,1:19:48.652
I don't get jitters or nerves or anything like that.

1:19:51.649,1:19:57.141
It's the sort of thing that I'm running through some of the slides in my talk, some of the jokes I may have constructed.

1:19:57.409,1:20:02.901
for a particular slide or a particular moment.

1:20:03.000,1:20:07.000
But mostly, it's just "OK, does my laptop work? Are the slides up?

1:20:07.000,1:20:11.000
Does the projector work? Yep. OK. All good."

1:20:13.500,1:20:16.000
Thank you.

1:20:17.250,1:20:22.000
So, generally what I say is that when I get bored, bad things happen.

1:20:24.000,1:20:29.000
At the Las Vegas Airport here, you've got a flight landing every 90 seconds.

1:20:29.000,1:20:32.000
That's an awful lot of metal, money and people moving around. How does this all

1:20:32.000,1:20:37.000
work? How does this all fit together? You always hear about air traffic control,

1:20:37.000,1:20:40.000
but does anybody really know how it works anymore?

1:20:44.000,1:20:48.500
I think that the audience is looking to learn something new.

1:20:48.500,1:20:54.000
They're looking for an entertaining discussion on interesting technologies that at the

1:20:54.000,1:20:57.000
end of the day are kind of important.

1:21:00.000,1:21:06.000
So increasingly my talks have gone into Why is the Internet such an insecure place?

1:21:06.000,1:21:11.500
What do we have to do, not in theory, not to satisfy academic stuff, but like, real

1:21:11.500,1:21:17.000
world, what do we need to change to make this thing secure?

1:21:19.000,1:21:24.000
All year, all my best research comes here. All year I work on "What am I gonna bring

1:21:24.000,1:21:28.000
to DEF CON for the next year" "What am I gonna do for this particular event?"

1:21:28.000,1:21:34.250
Because it's where it began for me. My career started because I started speaking

1:21:34.250,1:21:40.000
out here in Vegas. I started coming out to DEF CON and showing off these toys.

1:21:41.500,1:21:46.000
I'll be honest, a lot of my talks have had nothing to do with security, it's just

1:21:46.000,1:21:48.000
like "Yo, look what I can make THAT thing do!"

1:21:49.500,1:21:57.000
The presentation was just facilitating dialog with this industry because unfortunately with

1:21:57.000,1:22:01.500
something like a major vulnerability in air traffic control, there's no phone number to

1:22:01.500,1:22:08.000
call in for that and say "Hey, can we talk about this?" That doesn't exist.

1:22:10.000,1:22:16.000
It was the first time I dealt with something that was really serious. The entire talk

1:22:16.000,1:22:22.250
was theory. I had no facilities to actually test anything in a real world

1:22:22.250,1:22:26.000
scenario because obviously I don't want to be screwing with a plane while in flight.

1:22:28.000,1:22:35.000
(Now the attacker is one step away between an evaluation and attacker controlled code.)

1:22:35.000,1:22:40.000
My talks are stories and that's the one thing that I advise everyone else

1:22:40.000,1:22:47.000
giving a speech. You're telling a story to your friends about some cool stuff.

1:22:49.000,1:22:53.000
I have hundreds of hours of research that I have to tie together into a

1:22:53.000,1:22:56.000
coherent explanation of the world.

1:23:00.000,1:23:04.000
(applause)

1:23:04.250,1:23:10.000
I was expecting a response and oh boy, did I get it. I was talking to people

1:23:10.000,1:23:15.000
from major airlines, people with different airplane manufacturers, air traffic controllers,

1:23:15.000,1:23:20.000
trainers, I've got a pocket full of business cards after this that I have to go through.

1:23:27.500,1:23:33.000
This was me loudly knocking on the door and saying "You might have a problem

1:23:33.000,1:23:35.000
here. Let's talk about this."

1:23:37.000,1:23:46.000
Over the years, I've gotten relatively high profile and I'm very happy and

1:23:46.000,1:23:53.000
honored for all the obligations that come along with being a high profile

1:23:53.000,1:24:02.000
individual, but I do miss being able to just wander through the crowds and see cool

1:24:02.000,1:24:08.000
stuff and watch cool talks. I've got a lot of stuff I've gotta do; it's a lot of

1:24:08.000,1:24:16.000
obligations. I'm not complaining. This is a tremendous amount of fun that I get to

1:24:16.000,1:24:22.000
have. I build all these crazy toys and fill Penn and Teller and show them off.

1:24:23.000,1:24:27.000
The best moment for me at DEF CON is always going to be at 4 in the morning when

1:24:27.000,1:24:31.000
someone's showing off some really silly stunt that they built. And maybe it's

1:24:31.000,1:24:36.000
good and maybe it's not, but man they love it and they're enjoying talking about it.

1:24:42.000,1:24:54.000
(music playing)

1:24:55.500,1:25:01.000
The community has matured from DEF CON 4 and 5 dramatically. When I was coming to

1:25:01.000,1:25:07.000
DEF CON 4 and DEF CON 5 and seeing people in an official capacity, I'm now seeing

1:25:07.000,1:25:12.000
them bring their children and in some cases their grandchildren to DEF CON 20.

1:25:12.500,1:25:17.750
I say "Great, bring your kids to DEF CON" because there is no better community to

1:25:17.750,1:25:22.000
have your kids around than the people that go to DEF CON. There's every

1:25:22.000,1:25:27.000
opportunity for them to learn something and as long as you're a good

1:25:27.000,1:25:33.000
parent, as long as you're a good hacker, anything that they see or experience you

1:25:33.000,1:25:35.000
can lead them on that path.

1:25:39.000,1:25:43.000
Yep, so this is plastic. So, this is just a long string of plastic. So it goes into

1:25:43.000,1:25:46.500
this, this thing melts it. There's a little heater in here that melts it, and

1:25:46.500,1:25:50.000
then it squirts it out as the machine... (Just like toothpaste?)

1:25:50.000,1:25:53.000
Yeah, it's like toothpaste.

1:25:54.500,1:25:58.500
This is the second time for DEF CON Kids and the second time that I've been involved

1:25:58.500,1:26:06.250
and DEF CON Kids. Last year sort of was just a smaller way to try to get kids and their

1:26:06.250,1:26:11.000
parents involved in the hacker community and basically teach kids about lockpicking

1:26:11.000,1:26:16.250
and soldering and hardware hacking and privacy issues and law enforcement issues,

1:26:16.250,1:26:20.000
just all of the things that kids don't normally learn in school.

1:26:21.000,1:26:26.250
Speaking at DEF CON Kids and working with these kids is almost more exciting to me,

1:26:26.250,1:26:31.000
or just as exciting if not more, than giving a talk at DEF CON and having an

1:26:31.000,1:26:35.500
opportunity to directly influence these kids. It's like an immediate... you can see

1:26:35.500,1:26:39.000
it in their eyes, it's this immediate understanding once you show them something.

1:26:39.000,1:26:42.000
They get it, and that can change their life.

1:26:43.000,1:26:49.750
I would like to start programming, I would like to start learning the languages

1:26:49.750,1:26:54.000
that they mentioned, for example, I would like to start learning python.

1:26:54.500,1:27:00.000
What we were thinking of doing is adding some little extra pieces onto here and

1:27:00.000,1:27:05.000
solder those on and make some other cool programming with the light and make a

1:27:05.000,1:27:06.750
cool little light show.

1:27:07.500,1:27:10.500
The kids love all these speakers and they're the best speakers...

1:27:11.000,1:27:17.000
and I couldn't believe that DEF CON Kids had these same top speakers addressing

1:27:17.000,1:27:19.000
our children.

1:27:19.000,1:27:26.000
We're supportive, helpful, and just want the kids to gain this love of what

1:27:26.000,1:27:30.500
they're passionate about and sharing it with the world and it's wonderful.

1:27:32.000,1:27:36.000
This is kind of for the kids to really inspire them to get involved in

1:27:36.000,1:27:39.500
the hacking community and start doing some things. We've had the privilege to

1:27:39.500,1:27:44.000
hear from some really great guys and the kids are excited to go back and start doing things.

1:27:44.000,1:27:48.000
It's been a lot of fun so far. Even though it's only day 1 and

1:27:48.000,1:27:52.000
I think we've only had about 4 or 5 hours of sleep, it's been awesome.

1:27:53.000,1:27:57.000
Well, most interested in, I think, is hacking. I kind of want to be a hacker

1:27:57.000,1:28:00.000
when I get older, you know?

1:28:00.250,1:28:03.000
I would definitely call myself a hacker.

1:28:07.000,1:28:12.000
So this is the year that your daughter, your eldest, goes to DEF CON, right?

1:28:13.000,1:28:19.000
I plan on bringing my 14 year old to CON. This year, hopefully, will be her first

1:28:19.000,1:28:26.000
year, so I'm hoping to drag her out and show her, not just what I have experienced

1:28:26.000,1:28:34.250
over the years, but frankly, where she came from. Because at a basic level I have to

1:28:34.250,1:28:39.000
explain to my kids that I met your mom at DEF CON 4.

1:28:40.500,1:28:45.000
I've asked Dark Tangent for child support and he's like "hahahha.. Who are you?"

1:28:46.500,1:28:49.000
That's how it went, really.

1:28:50.000,1:28:55.000
I don't expect Jeff to know who I am. After all these years, I mean, I've been

1:28:55.000,1:29:04.000
going to his shows for 16 years, and that's OK. I feel OK with him not knowing me

1:29:04.000,1:29:10.000
personally. Because frankly, the dude's got like 20,000 people that some of them expect

1:29:10.000,1:29:13.000
him to know them personally. And I'm OK with that.

1:29:14.000,1:29:17.000
If there's a message you want to say to him what would it be?

1:29:19.250,1:29:21.000
Thank you, Jeff.

1:29:26.250,1:29:30.000
After Capture the Flag I thought that the Scavenger Hunt embodied the hacker

1:29:30.000,1:29:32.000
spirit the most.

1:29:32.500,1:29:36.000
No, No, AAAAAAHH!!

1:29:36.750,1:29:39.000
It's a tin foil swim suit.

1:29:40.000,1:29:42.000
Good Job! (laughter)

1:29:45.000,1:29:47.000
(laughter)

1:29:49.000,1:29:52.000
They're going to suck my blood.

1:29:53.000,1:29:57.000
Hi, How are you? Good, I'm here to get my daughter.

1:30:00.000,1:30:04.500
We've got a huge list of items and or tasks for the teams to complete.

1:30:04.750,1:30:07.250
By the end of the day or the end of the weekend

1:30:07.500,1:30:09.000
the team with the most points wins.

1:30:09.250,1:30:11.750
There's a lot of activity at the tables constantly

1:30:12.000,1:30:15.500
because the list is things to get and things to do and

1:30:15.750,1:30:18.250
things to perform and that sort of thing we get a lot of...

1:30:18.500,1:30:21.000
-find, make... meet. -Activity all around the table.

1:30:21.250,1:30:27.750
We want people to have a good time and ending up in jail generally is not a good time.

1:30:27.751,1:30:34.251
While there may have been things that are a grey area, or could end up being illegal activty...

1:30:34.252,1:30:39.752
I think we come from a community who... knows not to get caught.

1:30:42.002,1:30:45.502
We don't condone fire or stealing mostly...

1:30:45.503,1:30:48.252
Umm... [orgasmic screaming]

1:30:48.502,1:30:53.002
[music playing]

1:31:00.252,1:31:05.752
And I don't know how someone sourced it or found it but, the... head of a cow.

1:31:09.002,1:31:15.502
We put on the scavenger hunt list a live chicken, and I think we got six or something.

1:31:15.752,1:31:20.252
Scavenger hunt winners of the past go on to become goons

1:31:20.502,1:31:24.502
and contest creators and contest organizers and speakers and staff.

1:31:24.752,1:31:31.252
because you have so much social interaction it really engrains you into the community.

1:31:35.502,1:31:41.002
[music playing]

1:33:06.252,1:33:08.752
Oh, on the weekend of DEF CON...

1:33:09.002,1:33:12.502
I think last year we booked 14 shows.

1:33:12.752,1:33:20.252
I issued the ultimatum I'm going to book less shows... and it ends up being more.

1:33:20.502,1:33:27.002
[music playing]

1:33:47.252,1:33:51.752
The thing about DEF CON that I find incredibly fascinating

1:33:52.002,1:33:56.502
is that, yeah.. a lot of these basement dwelling guys that basically...

1:33:56.752,1:34:01.252
are getting tan off of an LCD monitor party the hardest out of anybody I've ever met...

1:34:02.502,1:34:06.002
Like.. Serious rockstars here..

1:34:06.252,1:34:13.752
Everybody just fueled by alchohol and Ballz and any type of A.D.H.D. medication

1:34:14.002,1:34:15.502
they can get their hands on...

1:34:20.752,1:34:27.252
[music playing]

1:35:35.502,1:35:39.002
[Applause]

1:35:39.252,1:35:42.752
Hey, so we are going to kick this thing off...

1:35:43.002,1:35:46.502
we've got really a lot of things to talk about but we've tried to organize it...

1:35:46.752,1:35:50.252
So... This is the 20th year.

1:35:50.502,1:35:53.002
How many people believe that?

1:35:53.252,1:35:55.752
[applause] Yeah...

1:35:56.002,1:36:02.002
So I'm just curious by show of hands.. How many people was this your first DEF CON?

1:36:02.252,1:36:06.752
So we scared away everybody else... [laughter]

1:36:07.002,1:36:11.502
We've got guys that have been helping out for 19 years...

1:36:11.752,1:36:16.252
That's amazing, I would just never have expected that.

1:36:16.502,1:36:22.002
So, I guess I'm most proud of producing something, having a group of people support me...

1:36:22.252,1:36:25.752
that's still doing stuff that people care about.

1:36:26.002,1:36:28.502
So... what I want to do is we want to

1:36:28.752,1:36:31.252
hand it over to Zac Franken

1:36:31.502,1:36:34.502
who's been the head of operations for I don't know...

1:36:34.752,1:36:36.252
closer to 18 years.

1:36:36.502,1:36:40.002
Let's hear a round of applause... Thanks. [Applause]

1:36:43.252,1:36:44.752
Thank you DEF CON 20!

1:36:45.002,1:36:54.502
DEF CON, as Jeff has already said, couldn't exist with out a lot of effort from a lot of people.

1:36:54.752,1:36:59.252
And, in the early years I used to name them all...

1:36:59.502,1:37:02.002
but now there's 300 of them.

1:37:02.252,1:37:04.752
I've trimmed it slightly.

1:37:07.500,1:37:16.000
So, while DEF CON is running, basically I'm almost certainly not having a good time...

1:37:16.250,1:37:20.750
Mainly because I just run around and put out fires.

1:37:21.000,1:37:26.750
And of course my friend Jeff who, threw this shindig 20 years ago..

1:37:27.000,1:37:28.500
I can't believe it's still fucking going... but it is...

1:37:28.750,1:37:33.550
I can't believe there's so many people here that had a great time!

1:37:33.800,1:37:38.300
and.. most of all.. thanks to you.. It's you guys that make DEF CON!

1:37:38.550,1:37:43.050
Thank you so much! [Applause]

1:37:46.300,1:37:52.800
DEF CON is not something that happens for us for 3 days in July or August every year...

1:37:53.050,1:37:56.900
it's almost something that we think about and work on and do stuff for

1:37:57.150,1:37:58.650
all year round.

1:37:58.900,1:38:02.400
It becomes almost a part of your identity and I know that sounds kind of weird...

1:38:03.850,1:38:09.150
it's when everything comes together... I know why I stayed up all night...

1:38:09.400,1:38:13.200
so many nights in a row...

1:38:14.450,1:38:22.950
There have been moments where you sit back and you say "That is just absolutely amazing."

1:38:23.200,1:38:25.950
That someone was able to think of that, or several someone's were able to think about that...

1:38:26.200,1:38:27.700
and do that.

1:38:29.500,1:38:34.800
I still love, just how excited people are there... and the fact that you helped...

1:38:35.050,1:38:37.250
to make it happen for them.

1:38:37.500,1:38:42.500
I said to Deviant, it was a really great challenge. Tt was fun to compete and...

1:38:42.750,1:38:48.250
DEF CON was great! Thank you everybody! [Applause]

1:38:48.500,1:38:51.955
This community, is misunderstood by the media...

1:38:53.200,1:38:56.500
and unfortunately, the media is the message out to

1:38:56.750,1:39:00.000
the non geek, non hacker community.

1:39:00.250,1:39:05.539
But the thing that I think came out perhaps this year more than any other year...

1:39:07.836,1:39:12.246
So, I just want to tell you what we've been doing for the last 3 years.

1:39:12.496,1:39:17.850
Year 1 we had 95 people sign up for the Be the Match bone marrow donor registry.

1:39:18.100,1:39:25.459
year 2 was 161 and this year we got 232 people to sign up.

1:39:25.709,1:39:32.333
In addition to that we raised over 3,300 dollars as well.

1:39:32.583,1:39:39.450
More than any other year this one was really about love. With the blood raising, the cancer stuff,

1:39:39.700,1:39:44.078
the huge amount of money for E.F.F... I mean even just saying it or thinking it gives me kind of goose bumps.

1:39:44.328,1:39:47.033
This one was, 20 years of love.

1:39:49.750,1:39:58.875
Ok, we've got some numbers for you. The info booth raised 58 dollars, the firearms simulator 3,620 dollars,

1:40:01.197,1:40:03.658
Mohawks...$4,333

1:40:03.797,1:40:07.977
Eddie Mize, was the artist with the great t-shirts you can still get outside

1:40:07.977,1:40:11.655
of the contest area, $3,500

1:40:11.905,1:40:20.957
The Summit, 1,500...789 dollars... $15,000...$15,789!

1:40:20.957,1:40:26.091
(applause)

1:40:26.092,1:40:33.217
And Hacker Jeopardy, for a total of $30,380...so thank you,

1:40:33.217,1:40:34.935
thank you very much! (applause)

1:40:36.491,1:40:42.143
(laughs) So I'm going to go over here

1:40:42.443,1:40:48.635
So...you have to understand, he's made this promise for what, 3 years in a row now?

1:40:48.635,1:40:54.533
This is beautiful, we have been waiting for this, time for Jeff to get his hawk.

1:40:54.533,1:41:15.036
(cheering) (applause)

1:41:15.036,1:41:19.354
Now, Jeff failed to mention that he has like 6 different meetings with incredibly

1:41:19.354,1:41:24.648
important people around the world in the next couple of weeks

1:41:24.648,1:41:29.734
You know, it's actually really nice fulfilling a promise (laughs), cause now

1:41:29.734,1:41:31.453
they can't bug me (laughs)

1:41:31.453,1:41:31.753
True!

1:41:31.753,1:41:35.539
That's true, now, but I haven't decided, don't I have to donate money to the EFF

1:41:35.539,1:41:36.874
for this? (applause)

1:41:36.874,1:41:41.321
Of course! (applause) (cheering)

1:41:41.321,1:41:49.518
I was thinking maybe $10,000 (cheering) (laughs)

1:41:49.518,1:41:57.447
What do you think? That's probably a pretty good thing...(laughs) (cheering)

1:41:57.482,1:41:59.269
(cheering) (applause)

1:41:59.547,1:42:05.152
Thank you very much, see you next year! Woo!

1:42:05.152,1:42:13.722
(cheering) (applause)

1:42:13.722,1:42:18.125
I joke with Jeff that he could cancel it tomorrow, like legitimately

1:42:18.125,1:42:20.934
cancel it, say "Screw it, I'm done. I'm going to do something else with my time."

1:42:20.934,1:42:25.718
And DEF CON would still happen, it would continue to happen. Everybody would just

1:42:25.718,1:42:28.828
go to Vegas anyways. Eventually people would start talking about stuff. Eventually

1:42:28.828,1:42:32.173
they'd say, "Let's go down to the bar and take over this empty conference room and

1:42:32.173,1:42:35.517
talk about it." And DEF CON would continue to happen organically, probably

1:42:35.517,1:42:38.535
for years after we just walked away from it.

1:42:38.535,1:42:44.387
So, for those of you who aren't in the conference business, what happens is you

1:42:44.387,1:42:50.470
sign hotel contracts for years in the future. You have to look into the future

1:42:50.470,1:42:54.069
and decide, "Ok, 2 years from now, are we going to be burned out? Are people

1:42:54.069,1:42:56.402
even want to come to DEF CON 2 years in the future or 3 years in the future?"

1:42:56.402,1:43:01.100
Because you have to sign these hotel contracts years in advance, and so who

1:43:01.100,1:43:04.924
could you hand this off to? Or who would want to take on that responsibility?

1:43:04.924,1:43:11.763
And I think the conclusion I've come to is, I'd probably just stop.

1:43:13.028,1:43:17.277
You know, and I'd...people could continue the organization, continue, they'd just

1:43:17.277,1:43:21.492
name it something different. I'd give them all my projectors, it would carry on

1:43:21.492,1:43:24.905
maybe under a different name, but it probably wouldn't carry on under the

1:43:24.905,1:43:30.385
DEF CON name. The only scenario I figured that out was if I get hit by a bus and I die

1:43:30.385,1:43:34.227
and I want to have the final DEF CON, huge party, though somebody would have to

1:43:34.227,1:43:38.152
plan that, cause I wouldn't be around.

1:43:39.800,1:43:54.890
(music playing)

1:43:55.790,1:44:00.037
I don't know why, every year, honestly. Every year after DEF CON, I think half

1:44:00.037,1:44:05.889
the senior staff says never again. All of us, we're all, "Yeah me too, me too."

1:44:06.139,1:44:12.042
And then all your friends, I have friends all over the world that DEF CON for sure

1:44:12.292,1:44:18.683
they show up to. And, you get wound up, you get excited for it, you look forward

1:44:18.933,1:44:28.595
to the experience again. So ... yeah, we forget how much it hurt.

1:44:29.641,1:44:37.827
Yeah, I do it, I've been doing it for a long time. You know, my second, she's 10

1:44:38.077,1:44:41.287
years younger than I am, she's been doing it for 5 years. She's probably due for

1:44:41.537,1:44:46.452
her shot to do it, and I can be the old grey beard that shows up at DEF CON, just

1:44:46.702,1:44:50.556
sits in the corner has a beer, and reminisces.

1:44:53.733,1:44:59.480
I can honestly say that without that first DEF CON, and without, you know, shaking

1:44:59.730,1:45:04.228
hands and meeting people, becoming a Goon, I wouldn't be the position that I'm

1:45:04.478,1:45:07.665
in now, and I wouldn't have the career and the means to support my family that

1:45:07.915,1:45:09.870
I do now.

1:45:10.120,1:45:13.191
It's outside of my imagination, missing a DEF CON.

1:45:13.441,1:45:18.044
When I started, it was like, "Oh my God, I found my home!" and that was, that's

1:45:18.294,1:45:19.484
kind of where it started, for me.

1:45:19.734,1:45:25.394
Once I got to the first one, I was hooked from that point on.

1:45:25.644,1:45:29.247
It's a degenerate family reunion.

1:45:30.234,1:45:34.553
These people are my family. It's a family reunion, you gotta come every year and

1:45:34.803,1:45:35.645
see everyone.

1:45:35.895,1:45:42.344
Basically, if you go once, you're hooked. DEF CON is, it's an experience like

1:45:42.594,1:45:47.115
nothing else. It's great people and a great atmosphere, and I think from the

1:45:47.365,1:45:50.366
time that I went, I knew that I would always go, that I would find a way to

1:45:50.616,1:45:55.858
make sure that I was there every year, and 13 years later I'm still going.

1:45:56.108,1:46:02.453
These people aren't just my friends, they're my family, you know, and I genuinely

1:46:02.703,1:46:05.773
genuinely love them.

1:46:08.467,1:48:43.401
(music playing)

1:48:43.651,1:48:48.522
I don't believe it's appropriate to talk about that on camera. (laughs)

1:48:48.972,1:48:50.821
Ah, I can't discuss that.

1:48:52.062,1:48:56.996
I'll tell the story, but I don't think we should actually ... (yeah)

1:48:57.246,1:49:00.050
No, no naming names, no naming names (laughing)

1:49:00.300,1:49:02.651
We'll tell you off-camera (laughing)

1:49:02.901,1:49:07.886
I can neither confirm nor deny that. (Yeah) Sorry.

1:49:08.654,1:49:11.497
All right! Edit that out... (laughing)

1:49:11.747,1:49:16.339
Nothing I'm going to admit on camera at this time, and 'til the statutes of

1:49:16.589,1:49:20.274
limitations run out. And then I'm happy to admit it later on, that's once we've

1:49:20.524,1:49:22.259
you know, checked with the lawyers and all that stuff.

1:49:23.827,1:49:29.307
I think half of the experiences of my life that I attribute back to ...

1:49:29.557,1:49:33.371
happened at DEF CON. I don't know how many of them I can talk about, I probably

1:49:33.621,1:49:41.138
can't talk about any of them. I really would like to, but, ahh, I ...

1:49:41.388,1:50:10.349
(music playing)

1:50:11.000,1:50:27.000
Transcription by: Anch, Phorkus, AlxRogan, Medic, Panadero, and Russr