WEBVTT 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.850 >> Rosemary Church: ... And we want to talk more about the sign-language interpreter 00:00:02.850 --> 00:00:05.379 at Nelson Mandela's memorial on Tuesday. 00:00:05.379 --> 00:00:09.820 We're joined by Laura Peterson and Julie Rems-Smario in Fremont, California, 00:00:09.820 --> 00:00:13.410 They work at the California School for the Deaf, as we mentioned, 00:00:13.410 --> 00:00:17.430 and Julie herself is deaf and will be communicating through an interpreter 00:00:17.430 --> 00:00:19.330 who is off-camera here. 00:00:19.330 --> 00:00:20.970 Thank you for joining us. 00:00:20.970 --> 00:00:25.039 Laura, I do want to start with you and get your reaction 00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:27.880 to this sign-language interpreter: what did you think? 00:00:27.880 --> 00:00:32.259 >> Laura Peterson: Um, well, when I first heard about it, actually from Julie, 00:00:32.259 --> 00:00:36.870 I thought "OK, then maybe they weren't qualified," 00:00:36.870 --> 00:00:40.200 So I thought, in order to explain this here, 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:43.440 I really wanted to provide access to everybody in your audience 00:00:43.440 --> 00:00:47.480 and so, because I understand that there is no captioning, 00:00:47.480 --> 00:00:50.870 so Julie is interpreting, 00:00:50.870 --> 00:00:52.650 so that everybody in the audience can have access. 00:00:52.650 --> 00:00:54.680 So I just wanted to clarify that, 00:00:54.680 --> 00:00:56.390 because people are maybe not understanding 00:00:56.390 --> 00:00:58.640 why Julie is signing right now. 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:00.870 So, when I first read about it, I thought: 00:01:00.870 --> 00:01:03.540 "OK, maybe it was somebody who just wasn't very good." 00:01:03.540 --> 00:01:07.370 But when I actually saw the video, it was really clear that they were -- 00:01:07.370 --> 00:01:11.820 did not have the semantics, the hand shapes, 00:01:11.820 --> 00:01:16.500 the normal attributes of any sign language. 00:01:16.500 --> 00:01:18.830 I don't know South African Sign Language, 00:01:18.830 --> 00:01:22.470 but there are things that are uniform in all sign languages. 00:01:22.470 --> 00:01:26.720 >> Church: And it is worth mentioning that there isn't an International Sign Language, 00:01:26.720 --> 00:01:27.080 which is there, 00:01:27.080 --> 00:01:29.270 I mean there are different Sign Languages in each country. 00:01:29.270 --> 00:01:31.840 But Julie, I do want to go to you: 00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:35.890 Are you outraged? What do you want to see happen here? 00:01:35.890 --> 00:01:40.550 >> Julie Rems-Smario: Well, really, I am upset, 00:01:40.550 --> 00:01:43.710 because really, that shows a lack of respect 00:01:43.710 --> 00:01:46.960 for human rights of language equality. 00:01:46.960 --> 00:01:48.850 That was destroyed at this event 00:01:48.850 --> 00:01:53.970 and Nelson Mandela represented human rights 00:01:53.970 --> 00:01:56.440 and he's an icon and an African. 00:01:56.440 --> 00:02:01.190 And this person exploited that on a very important day 00:02:01.190 --> 00:02:03.040 to honor Nelson Mandela 00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:07.350 and he also violated our human rights as deaf people 00:02:07.350 --> 00:02:12.030 by showing exactly what, you know, 00:02:12.030 --> 00:02:14.420 language apartheid looks like. 00:02:14.420 --> 00:02:18.880 >> Church: And Laura, as we saw in the story that Errol Barnett brought us 00:02:18.880 --> 00:02:21.090 just before the break, 00:02:21.090 --> 00:02:25.170 this man, this interpreter, he has been in trouble before, 00:02:25.170 --> 00:02:27.230 but there have been no consequences. 00:02:27.230 --> 00:02:29.920 How does somebody -- as far as I was concerned -- 00:02:29.920 --> 00:02:32.230 he had credentials to do this. 00:02:32.230 --> 00:02:33.690 How does somebody end up on the stage 00:02:33.690 --> 00:02:35.550 next to all of those dignitaries 00:02:35.550 --> 00:02:38.150 in such an important, historic day, 00:02:38.150 --> 00:02:41.050 for not just South Africa, but indeed the world? 00:02:41.050 --> 00:02:43.870 How does someone get through to that point 00:02:43.870 --> 00:02:45.120 when they've been in trouble before? 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:46.590 >> Peterson: Right, so your question is 00:02:46.590 --> 00:02:48.830 how does he end up on the stage. 00:02:48.830 --> 00:02:53.290 Um, it's not, unfortunately, it's not that unusual. 00:02:53.290 --> 00:02:55.349 It happens not just in South Africa, 00:02:55.349 --> 00:02:56.580 it happens around the world, 00:02:56.580 --> 00:03:00.790 it happens in classrooms here in California. 00:03:00.790 --> 00:03:02.950 This -- oftentimes the situation is, 00:03:02.950 --> 00:03:07.120 the person who is doing the hiring doesn't know the language. 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:10.650 And so, if the person says they are fluent in that language, 00:03:10.650 --> 00:03:13.480 they take them, you know, just by their word. 00:03:13.480 --> 00:03:15.099 Here in the United States, 00:03:15.099 --> 00:03:17.000 we have the Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf, 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:18.650 there's a whole certification process 00:03:18.650 --> 00:03:23.650 and a code of ethics and professional conduct, 00:03:23.650 --> 00:03:25.349 so we try to avoid that. 00:03:25.349 --> 00:03:30.440 However, that doesn't mean that people don't hire 00:03:30.440 --> 00:03:32.360 people who don't have those qualifications, 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:34.849 they don't include deaf people in that hiring process 00:03:34.849 --> 00:03:39.590 so that somebody who knows the language can actually ascertain 00:03:39.590 --> 00:03:42.099 whether they do have that fluency. 00:03:42.099 --> 00:03:44.830 >> Church: And presumably, money is the motivator here. 00:03:44.830 --> 00:03:46.530 But of course, across the world, 00:03:46.530 --> 00:03:49.440 many deaf children struggle to get a proper education 00:03:49.440 --> 00:03:51.209 and that's the big point here. 00:03:51.209 --> 00:03:54.750 And Human Rights Watch has a campaign dedicated 00:03:54.750 --> 00:03:57.379 to help raise awareness about SIgn Language education 00:03:57.379 --> 00:04:00.349 in places throughout Africa, and indeed the rest of the world. 00:04:00.349 --> 00:04:05.030 I want to just watch a portion of the video if we can bring that up: 00:04:05.030 --> 00:04:07.230 >> Teacher: My name? Good! 00:04:07.230 --> 00:04:09.980 Yours? Hey! Anne, Anne, good! 00:04:09.980 --> 00:04:11.080 My name. 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:13.280 [Girl signs her name] 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:15.980 >> Teacher: Good good good! Yours? 00:04:15.980 --> 00:04:20.639 Your name? Ah ah, you are not Anne. 00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:23.919 My name? Who? Yours, yours, yours. 00:04:23.919 --> 00:04:26.099 >> Boy: Yours, yours, yours. 00:04:26.099 --> 00:04:29.370 >> Teacher: Mmm, What is her name? 00:04:29.370 --> 00:04:30.469 [Girl signs] 00:04:30.469 --> 00:04:31.559 >> Teacher:Yeah, beautiful. 00:04:31.559 --> 00:04:35.800 She's very good in taking in the sign language. 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:37.289 It's very important to have because 00:04:37.289 --> 00:04:40.740 she can now be communicating to other people. 00:04:40.740 --> 00:04:42.669 While she was at home 00:04:42.669 --> 00:04:46.680 there was no sign language being taught there. 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:49.460 >> Church: And Julie and Laura, of course advocates say, 00:04:49.460 --> 00:04:50.279 one of the biggest problems 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:53.629 is the lack of Sign Language schools and instructors. 00:04:53.629 --> 00:04:56.430 And of course that portion of that video, I mean, 00:04:56.430 --> 00:04:58.240 really does bring it home, doesn't it, 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:01.089 the importance of educating these children who, 00:05:01.089 --> 00:05:03.800 for some -- sometimes, it's not until they're 6 years of age 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:06.830 that they have access to this sort of education. 00:05:06.830 --> 00:05:11.270 So how concerned are you that this fake interpreter's actions 00:05:11.270 --> 00:05:14.559 could have a negative impact on this initiative? 00:05:14.559 --> 00:05:18.759 >> Rems-Smario: Well, I'm very concerned 00:05:18.759 --> 00:05:23.039 about the lack of acceptance of deaf people, deaf leaders, 00:05:23.039 --> 00:05:24.330 and the input from the community, 00:05:24.330 --> 00:05:25.889 because we're the experts, 00:05:25.889 --> 00:05:29.099 and many schools don't hire the deaf people who know the community, 00:05:29.099 --> 00:05:30.719 who know the language, 00:05:30.719 --> 00:05:35.499 who know our human right to Sign Language. 00:05:35.499 --> 00:05:38.589 We have a national and international epidemic 00:05:38.589 --> 00:05:41.919 of deaf children who have language deprivation. 00:05:41.919 --> 00:05:47.659 They grow up without full access, full competency in any language, 00:05:47.659 --> 00:05:52.020 which means they struggle academically, socially, emotionally 00:05:52.020 --> 00:05:53.809 and it's really a travesty. 00:05:53.809 --> 00:05:56.099 >> Church: If there's one good point, 00:05:56.099 --> 00:05:59.360 perhaps this incident has brought attention to that. 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:00.490 We will see of course. 00:06:00.490 --> 00:06:02.879 Laura Peterson and Julie Rems-Smario, 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:04.059 thank you so much for joining us 00:06:04.059 --> 00:06:06.550 and bringing attention to this incident. 00:06:06.550 --> 00:06:07.090 We appreciate it.