1
00:00:06,701 --> 00:00:12,503
(Music)

2
00:01:33,636 --> 00:01:38,077
(Applause)

3
00:01:44,329 --> 00:01:47,433
Trevor Copp: When "Dancing With the Stars"
first hit the airwaves,

4
00:01:47,457 --> 00:01:49,536
that is not what it looked like.

5
00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,097
(Laughter)

6
00:01:51,121 --> 00:01:54,148
Jeff and I were full-time
ballroom dance instructors

7
00:01:54,172 --> 00:01:57,585
when the big TV ballroom revival hit,

8
00:01:57,609 --> 00:02:00,800
and this was incredible.

9
00:02:01,132 --> 00:02:03,736
I mean, one day we would say "foxtrot,"

10
00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,797
and people were like "Foxes trotting."

11
00:02:06,821 --> 00:02:08,551
(Laughter)

12
00:02:08,575 --> 00:02:10,529
And the next day they were telling us

13
00:02:10,553 --> 00:02:12,941
the finer points of a good feather step.

14
00:02:12,965 --> 00:02:15,318
And this blew our minds.

15
00:02:15,342 --> 00:02:20,564
I mean, all of the ballroom dance
geeking out that we had always done

16
00:02:20,588 --> 00:02:24,227
on why salsa worked differently
than the competitive rumba

17
00:02:24,251 --> 00:02:26,755
and why tango traveled unlike the waltz,

18
00:02:26,779 --> 00:02:30,796
all of that just hit
the public consciousness,

19
00:02:31,383 --> 00:02:32,899
and it changed everything.

20
00:02:33,834 --> 00:02:36,200
But running parallel to this excitement,

21
00:02:36,224 --> 00:02:40,575
the excitement that suddenly,
somehow, we were cool --

22
00:02:40,599 --> 00:02:43,020
(Laughter)

23
00:02:43,044 --> 00:02:45,057
there was also this reservation.

24
00:02:45,914 --> 00:02:48,371
Why this and why now?

25
00:02:49,556 --> 00:02:52,789
Jeff Fox: When Trevor and I
would get together for training seminars

26
00:02:52,813 --> 00:02:53,972
or just for fun,

27
00:02:53,996 --> 00:02:55,862
we'd toss each other around, mix it up,

28
00:02:55,886 --> 00:02:58,073
take a break from having
to lead all the time.

29
00:02:58,097 --> 00:03:00,867
We even came up with a system
for switching lead and follow

30
00:03:00,891 --> 00:03:02,042
while we were dancing,

31
00:03:02,066 --> 00:03:04,075
as a way of taking turns and playing fair.

32
00:03:04,099 --> 00:03:07,056
It wasn't until we used that system
as part of a performance

33
00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:08,241
in a small festival

34
00:03:08,265 --> 00:03:10,392
that we got an important tap
on the shoulder.

35
00:03:10,416 --> 00:03:13,724
Lisa O'Connell, a dramaturge
and director of a playwright center,

36
00:03:13,748 --> 00:03:15,746
pulled us aside after the show and said,

37
00:03:16,154 --> 00:03:18,834
"Do you have any idea
how political that was?"

38
00:03:18,858 --> 00:03:20,874
(Laughter)

39
00:03:20,898 --> 00:03:23,667
So that began an eight-year
collaboration to create a play

40
00:03:23,691 --> 00:03:26,452
which not only further developed
our system for switching

41
00:03:26,476 --> 00:03:30,234
but also explored the impact
of being locked into a single role,

42
00:03:30,258 --> 00:03:31,422
and what's worse,

43
00:03:31,446 --> 00:03:33,575
being defined by that single role.

44
00:03:33,599 --> 00:03:35,492
TC: Because, of course,

45
00:03:35,968 --> 00:03:40,177
classic Latin and ballroom dancing
isn't just a system of dancing;

46
00:03:40,719 --> 00:03:43,344
it's a way of thinking, of being,

47
00:03:43,924 --> 00:03:45,547
of relating to each other

48
00:03:45,571 --> 00:03:48,162
that captured a whole period's values.

49
00:03:48,599 --> 00:03:50,966
There's one thing that stayed
consistent, though:

50
00:03:50,990 --> 00:03:52,316
the man leads

51
00:03:52,340 --> 00:03:53,735
and the woman follows.

52
00:03:54,126 --> 00:03:56,854
So street salsa, championship tango,
it's all the same --

53
00:03:56,878 --> 00:03:58,736
he leads, she follows.

54
00:03:59,335 --> 00:04:01,074
So this was gender training.

55
00:04:01,623 --> 00:04:03,425
You weren't just learning to dance --

56
00:04:03,449 --> 00:04:06,489
you were learning to "man" and to "woman."

57
00:04:07,813 --> 00:04:09,003
It's a relic.

58
00:04:09,590 --> 00:04:11,896
And in the way of relics,
you don't throw it out,

59
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,303
but you need to know
that this is the past.

60
00:04:14,327 --> 00:04:15,707
This isn't the present.

61
00:04:16,866 --> 00:04:19,945
It's like Shakespeare:
respect it, revive it -- great!

62
00:04:19,969 --> 00:04:21,455
But know that this is history.

63
00:04:21,479 --> 00:04:24,021
This doesn't represent how we think today.

64
00:04:25,045 --> 00:04:26,585
So we asked ourselves:

65
00:04:26,609 --> 00:04:28,263
If you strip it all down,

66
00:04:28,672 --> 00:04:31,431
what is at the core of partner dancing?

67
00:04:32,094 --> 00:04:34,329
JF: Well, the core principle
of partner dancing

68
00:04:34,353 --> 00:04:36,753
is that one person leads,
the other one follows.

69
00:04:37,094 --> 00:04:40,364
The machine works the same,
regardless of who's playing which role.

70
00:04:40,388 --> 00:04:43,659
The physics of movement doesn't really
give a crap about your gender.

71
00:04:43,683 --> 00:04:44,723
(Laughter)

72
00:04:44,747 --> 00:04:46,777
So if we were to update the existing form,

73
00:04:46,801 --> 00:04:48,895
we would need to make it
more representative

74
00:04:48,919 --> 00:04:51,189
of how we interact here, now, in 2015.

75
00:04:52,031 --> 00:04:54,963
When you watch ballroom,
don't just watch what's there.

76
00:04:55,517 --> 00:04:56,699
Watch what's not.

77
00:04:57,089 --> 00:05:00,101
The couple is always
only a man and a woman.

78
00:05:00,125 --> 00:05:01,283
Together.

79
00:05:01,307 --> 00:05:02,579
Only.

80
00:05:02,603 --> 00:05:03,754
Ever.

81
00:05:03,778 --> 00:05:07,860
So, same-sex and gender nonconformist
couples just disappear.

82
00:05:07,884 --> 00:05:10,516
In most mainstream international
ballroom competitions,

83
00:05:10,540 --> 00:05:13,159
same-sex couples are rarely
recognized on the floor,

84
00:05:13,183 --> 00:05:14,367
and in many cases,

85
00:05:14,391 --> 00:05:16,128
the rules prohibit them completely.

86
00:05:16,152 --> 00:05:20,987
TC: Try this: Google-image,
"professional Latin dancer,"

87
00:05:21,504 --> 00:05:23,715
and then look for an actual Latino person.

88
00:05:23,739 --> 00:05:25,106
(Laughter)

89
00:05:25,130 --> 00:05:26,669
You'll be there for days.

90
00:05:27,145 --> 00:05:31,170
What you will get is page after page
of white, straight Russian couples

91
00:05:31,194 --> 00:05:33,159
spray-tanned to the point of mahogany.

92
00:05:33,183 --> 00:05:35,084
(Laughter)

93
00:05:35,108 --> 00:05:37,368
There are no black people,
there are no Asians,

94
00:05:37,392 --> 00:05:38,676
no mixed-race couples,

95
00:05:38,700 --> 00:05:42,228
so basically, non-white people
just disappeared.

96
00:05:42,727 --> 00:05:46,739
Even within the white-straight-
couple-only paradigm --

97
00:05:48,008 --> 00:05:49,389
she can't be taller,

98
00:05:49,413 --> 00:05:50,881
he can't be shorter.

99
00:05:50,905 --> 00:05:52,528
She can't be bolder,

100
00:05:53,025 --> 00:05:54,420
he can't be gentler.

101
00:05:55,261 --> 00:05:57,481
If you were to take a ballroom dance

102
00:05:57,505 --> 00:05:59,798
and translate that into a conversation

103
00:05:59,822 --> 00:06:01,264
and drop that into a movie,

104
00:06:01,288 --> 00:06:04,910
we, as a culture,
would never stand for this.

105
00:06:04,934 --> 00:06:07,857
He dictates, she reacts.

106
00:06:08,674 --> 00:06:11,679
No relationship -- gay,
straight or anything --

107
00:06:11,703 --> 00:06:16,110
that we would regard as remotely healthy
or functional looks like that,

108
00:06:16,134 --> 00:06:17,720
and yet somehow,

109
00:06:17,744 --> 00:06:20,358
you put it on prime time,
you slap some makeup on it,

110
00:06:20,382 --> 00:06:24,039
throw the glitter on, put it out there
as movement, not as text,

111
00:06:24,832 --> 00:06:26,950
and we, as a culture,

112
00:06:26,974 --> 00:06:28,297
tune in and clap.

113
00:06:29,805 --> 00:06:32,751
We are applauding our own absence.

114
00:06:34,130 --> 00:06:36,948
Too many people have disappeared
from partner dancing.

115
00:06:38,334 --> 00:06:42,592
(Music)

116
00:07:22,276 --> 00:07:26,915
(Applause)

117
00:07:28,957 --> 00:07:31,496
JF: Now, you just saw
two men dancing together.

118
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:32,533
(Laughter)

119
00:07:32,557 --> 00:07:34,022
And you thought it looked ...

120
00:07:34,412 --> 00:07:35,694
a little strange.

121
00:07:36,130 --> 00:07:38,175
Interesting -- appealing, even --

122
00:07:38,199 --> 00:07:39,752
but a little bit odd.

123
00:07:40,372 --> 00:07:43,356
Even avid followers of the same-sex
ballroom circuit can attest

124
00:07:43,380 --> 00:07:47,490
that while same-sex partner dancing
can be dynamic and strong and exciting,

125
00:07:47,514 --> 00:07:49,837
it just doesn't quite seem to fit.

126
00:07:50,446 --> 00:07:51,663
Aesthetically speaking,

127
00:07:51,687 --> 00:07:55,733
if Alida and I take the classic
closed ballroom hold ...

128
00:07:57,637 --> 00:07:59,194
this is considered beautiful.

129
00:08:02,204 --> 00:08:04,392
(Laughter)

130
00:08:04,703 --> 00:08:05,961
But why not this?

131
00:08:05,985 --> 00:08:07,675
(Laughter)

132
00:08:07,699 --> 00:08:11,367
See, the standard image that the leader
must be larger and masculine

133
00:08:11,391 --> 00:08:13,485
and the follower smaller and feminine --

134
00:08:13,950 --> 00:08:15,429
this is a stumbling point.

135
00:08:15,978 --> 00:08:19,848
TC: So we wanted to look at this
from a totally different angle.

136
00:08:21,467 --> 00:08:25,035
So, what if we could keep
the idea of lead and follow

137
00:08:25,059 --> 00:08:28,255
but toss the idea that this
was connected to gender?

138
00:08:28,824 --> 00:08:33,827
Further, what if a couple
could lead and follow each other

139
00:08:33,851 --> 00:08:35,080
and then switch?

140
00:08:35,513 --> 00:08:36,746
And then switch back?

141
00:08:37,690 --> 00:08:40,139
What if it could be like a conversation,

142
00:08:40,949 --> 00:08:44,018
taking turns listening and speaking,
just like we do in life?

143
00:08:44,042 --> 00:08:47,254
What if we could dance like that?

144
00:08:48,418 --> 00:08:51,059
We call it "Liquid Lead Dancing."

145
00:08:52,542 --> 00:08:54,461
JF: Let's try this with a Latin dance,

146
00:08:55,045 --> 00:08:56,199
salsa.

147
00:08:56,524 --> 00:09:00,161
In salsa, there's a key transitional step,
called the cross-body lead.

148
00:09:00,185 --> 00:09:02,945
We use it as punctuation
to break up the improvisation.

149
00:09:02,969 --> 00:09:06,339
It can be a little tricky to spot
if you're not used to looking for it,

150
00:09:06,363 --> 00:09:07,514
so here it is.

151
00:09:13,191 --> 00:09:14,845
One more time for the cheap seats.

152
00:09:14,869 --> 00:09:17,305
(Laughter)

153
00:09:20,378 --> 00:09:22,383
And here's the action one more time,

154
00:09:22,407 --> 00:09:23,766
nice and slow.

155
00:09:28,842 --> 00:09:32,929
Now, if we apply liquid-lead thinking
to this transitional step,

156
00:09:32,953 --> 00:09:34,635
the cross-body lead becomes a point

157
00:09:34,659 --> 00:09:36,644
where the lead and the follow can switch.

158
00:09:36,668 --> 00:09:39,191
The person following can elect
to take over the lead,

159
00:09:39,215 --> 00:09:41,568
or the person leading can choose
to surrender it,

160
00:09:41,592 --> 00:09:44,184
essentially making it
a counter-cross-body lead.

161
00:09:44,208 --> 00:09:46,144
Here's how that looks in slow motion.

162
00:09:53,913 --> 00:09:57,300
And here's how it looked
when we danced it in the opening dance.

163
00:10:02,789 --> 00:10:06,162
With this simple tweak,
the dance moves from being a dictation

164
00:10:06,186 --> 00:10:07,375
to a negotiation.

165
00:10:07,761 --> 00:10:10,254
Anyone can lead. Anyone can follow.

166
00:10:10,278 --> 00:10:12,761
And more importantly,
you can change your mind.

167
00:10:13,523 --> 00:10:15,889
Now, this is only one example
of how this applies,

168
00:10:15,913 --> 00:10:18,552
but once the blinkers come off,
anything can happen.

169
00:10:19,090 --> 00:10:24,273
TC: Let's look at how Liquid Lead thinking
could apply to a classic waltz.

170
00:10:24,297 --> 00:10:25,525
Because, of course,

171
00:10:25,549 --> 00:10:28,140
it isn't just a system of switching leads;

172
00:10:28,164 --> 00:10:29,330
it's a way of thinking

173
00:10:29,354 --> 00:10:32,610
that can actually make
the dance itself more efficient.

174
00:10:32,981 --> 00:10:34,329
So: the waltz.

175
00:10:34,891 --> 00:10:36,563
The waltz is a turning dance.

176
00:10:36,984 --> 00:10:38,596
This means that for the lead,

177
00:10:38,620 --> 00:10:41,832
you spend half of the dance
traveling backwards,

178
00:10:41,856 --> 00:10:43,326
completely blind.

179
00:10:43,350 --> 00:10:45,899
And because of the follower's position,

180
00:10:45,923 --> 00:10:48,731
basically, no one can see
where they're going.

181
00:10:48,755 --> 00:10:50,103
(Laughter)

182
00:10:50,127 --> 00:10:52,139
So you're out here on the floor,

183
00:10:52,163 --> 00:10:54,827
and then imagine that coming right at you.

184
00:10:54,851 --> 00:10:56,200
JF: Raaaaaah!

185
00:10:56,224 --> 00:10:57,748
(Laughter)

186
00:10:57,772 --> 00:11:01,068
TC: There are actually a lot
of accidents out there

187
00:11:01,092 --> 00:11:03,334
that happen as a result
of this blind spot.

188
00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,322
But what if the partners
were to just allow for

189
00:11:07,346 --> 00:11:09,495
a switch of posture for a moment?

190
00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:11,798
A lot of accidents could be avoided.

191
00:11:12,253 --> 00:11:17,093
Even if one person led the whole dance
but allowed this switch to happen,

192
00:11:17,117 --> 00:11:18,503
it would be a lot safer,

193
00:11:18,527 --> 00:11:21,571
while at the same time,
offering new aesthetics into the waltz.

194
00:11:22,221 --> 00:11:25,654
Because physics doesn't give a damn
about your gender.

195
00:11:25,678 --> 00:11:26,737
(Laughter)

196
00:11:28,154 --> 00:11:31,155
JF: Now, we've danced Liquid Lead
in clubs, convention centers

197
00:11:31,179 --> 00:11:34,007
and as part of "First Dance,"
the play we created with Lisa,

198
00:11:34,021 --> 00:11:36,363
on stages in North America and in Europe.

199
00:11:36,387 --> 00:11:38,070
And it never fails to engage.

200
00:11:38,736 --> 00:11:42,217
I mean, beyond the unusual sight
of seeing two men dancing together,

201
00:11:42,241 --> 00:11:44,735
it always evokes and engages.

202
00:11:45,174 --> 00:11:46,461
But why?

203
00:11:46,485 --> 00:11:49,580
The secret lies in what made
Lisa see our initial demonstration

204
00:11:49,604 --> 00:11:50,907
as "political."

205
00:11:50,931 --> 00:11:53,506
It wasn't just that we were
switching lead and follow;

206
00:11:53,530 --> 00:11:56,587
it's that we stayed consistent
in our presence, our personality

207
00:11:56,611 --> 00:11:59,540
and our power, regardless
of which role we were playing.

208
00:11:59,564 --> 00:12:01,184
We were still us.

209
00:12:01,816 --> 00:12:03,851
And that's where the true freedom lies --

210
00:12:03,875 --> 00:12:05,864
not just the freedom to switch roles,

211
00:12:05,888 --> 00:12:09,503
but the freedom from being defined
by whichever role you're playing,

212
00:12:09,527 --> 00:12:12,083
the freedom to always remain
true to yourself.

213
00:12:12,457 --> 00:12:15,557
Forget what a lead is supposed
to look like, or a follow.

214
00:12:15,581 --> 00:12:17,136
Be a masculine follow

215
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:18,383
or a feminine lead.

216
00:12:18,795 --> 00:12:20,065
Just be yourself.

217
00:12:20,873 --> 00:12:23,590
Obviously, this applies
off the dance floor as well,

218
00:12:23,614 --> 00:12:26,153
but on the floor, it gives us
the perfect opportunity

219
00:12:26,177 --> 00:12:29,474
to update an old paradigm,
reinvigorate an old relic,

220
00:12:29,498 --> 00:12:33,687
and make it more representative
of our era and our current way of being.

221
00:12:34,630 --> 00:12:37,971
TC: Jeff and I dance partner dancing
all the time with women and men

222
00:12:37,995 --> 00:12:39,383
and we love it.

223
00:12:39,407 --> 00:12:43,970
But we dance with a consciousness
that this is a historic form

224
00:12:43,994 --> 00:12:48,304
that can produce silence
and produce invisibility

225
00:12:48,328 --> 00:12:51,022
across the spectrum of identity
that we enjoy today.

226
00:12:51,820 --> 00:12:53,314
We invented Liquid Lead

227
00:12:53,338 --> 00:12:58,503
as a way of stripping out
all the ideas that don't belong to us

228
00:12:58,527 --> 00:13:02,822
and taking partner dancing back
to what it really always was:

229
00:13:03,830 --> 00:13:06,756
the fine art of taking care of each other.

230
00:13:08,829 --> 00:13:15,413
(Music)

231
00:15:08,910 --> 00:15:20,903
(Applause)